Policy Discussion: Newbie Games

[IH]

I'm with Patrick. Normally 4-3, 5-2 when we start to get backed up. I could live with 5-2 if the backlog is more-or-less permanent now, since town hardly ever lynches IC and NKs IC right off the bat.

(Raises hand)

3-4 ftw. 5-2 if we have more than two games backlogged.

5-2 is just not the same quality of play as 3-4. 5-2 is generally more newbies arguing with each other, while the ics try to smooth out things, while 3-4 is more Newbies asking questions, or doing stupid things while the IC's correct them.

IC's are a must I believe, because Newbies just won't be ready for other games like they would be with just an "advisor". They'd be ready for more newbie games, but the quality of play in minis and such will spiral out of control methinks.

[IH]

Flay, why 7-0? We've already established it won't be a learning game with 7-0 to try and bring them up to quality for their next game...

the only reason if it would be 7-0 is if someone is at pre IC status, such as completed five games, and less than three months, or more than three months and completed 3 games.

[IH]

Ok, look. A 7-0 will not be a learning game persay for a newbie, unless there are other newbies who have played before, but most of these people are brand new players playing now.

They will have NO idea how to go about it, especially if left on their own. If they do start discussion, they will not know the logic to go about how to keep a good game running. Not only that, when they do finish, they will leave the newbie game with little chance of knowing the basic mechanics and logic as one should when leaving their first newbie game.

The whole point of newbie games are to teach the newbies how to go about tricking others as scum, and finding scum as town. To prepare them for OTHER games. If they play one or two 7-0 games, they will think they're ready to branch out, only to STILL be as clueless as they are in their first game.

They'll only be wasting their time trying to learn I believe. IC's are a must in newbie games methinks. I'd say Advisors are not a good idea either, mostly because a newbie will begin to rely on them, and it just won't be the same experience. At least the way it is now it ACTUALLY feels like a real game.

I strongly object to a 7-0 setup.

[IH]

Nah, Newbie games are a must.

I would admit that Mith has been the one to bring up the most likely scenario for a 7-0 newbie game for a strategy guide type thing, but... I don't like the idea still.

My main argument is how much the game seems to have evolved from when it was first played at GL. There is so much more based on prior experiences and such. If Newbies are left to work it out for themselves, they are clearly going to be behind.

In my mind at least, I feel we still need the IC's to help teach the newbie's, where after at least one game, we don't have to treat day 1 in over half the games as a newbie teaching day... Shortening the queue's will encourage newer players how to and such....

= |

I think you guys are overestimating the effect an IC will have on a newbie, and I don't see how those who would not want an advisor would be affected by an advisor... it's just bouncing ideas around... not like the IC will be turning the newbie into a mini-me version of the IC...


Oh and flay, your hair looks gorgeous!

It's more that the newbies would get outside help, which does violate a modkillable rule, not to mention if Newbie's don't learn without outside help, they might not be able to play normally without help...

[IH]

Speaking of Meme, and newbie games....

I wonder if with the increased number of them, her flavah will branch out.

That's the REAL question.

[IH]

Meme, think anyone would notice if you switched two words around?

Sounds like an April Fools plan to me!

"HAH! None of you even noticed! Fooled!"

And yet,

mafiascum

, GL, and a dozen other sites have all had all-newbie games work out just fine. I wonder that we're being too elitist here; as mith said, some ICs are worse than having no advisor at all.

.... We're Mafiascum <.<;

Also, for the most part, I don't think GL games and such have the same quality of play as we do here....

[IH]

They had a fruitful day 1 of learning experience sure, but day 2 was a pointless technicality that didn't do anything but hand the scum a win.

Now the game would have clearly gone on, and perhaps a different game that was more fun to play and provide more learning would have gone on with the simple statement of 'Don't vote for someone in Lylo" and explain lylo.

I have a newbie intro that I've begun to post in all my newbie games, and I'm adding that one to it = )

[IH]

Well that was more of the main point, that the only way that 5-2 should be the accepted norm after a newbie burst is that IC's would have to cover every thing possible in the game of mafia on day 1.

[IH]

Longer games give the town more time to analyze things, make better connections, and generally get a better read on people.

You should look at some PBPs and such.

Raffles, I would also say that stripped down games are some of the best ones. As long as they're relatively small, then they're fun. It gets down to the real grit of the game. Town looking for scum.

= )

[IH]

@Emptyger-I'm pretty sure they got a lot of fruitful information from that game. The scum did a good job manipulating the town into arguing with each other, resulting in my lynch.

= \ Vizzini was what did it, and me not understanding him properly. When I figured out what he was staying, I tried to back away, and actually found a scum.

I thought that in itself was a strong lesson. Don't just mindlessly listen to somebody. Look at the reactions closer and such. That's what these newbie games are really about. Experience. Sure you can just give them a guide and some older games to read, but if it's not put into practice, then it means nothing.

I myself know that before my first mafia game, newbie 277, my thought process was way different. I can remember obsessing over it, playing through scenarios over and over. Spending forever on my first PBP.

I most definitely wouldn't have learned as much without the ICs, and probably woulda coasted along, like I did at first. Nobody really noticed until MBL and SV called me out on it, just following people.

(P.S. I still consider that Bogre lynch was appropriate ^_^)

Also, I felt the need to respond to this.

One problem I see with ICs being in the game is the scum ICs misleading newbie town. If we get 2:5 and both ICs are scums, then for example they may persuade the town into no lynch on the first day. Whilst haing three ICs might solve this to some extent, it's not foolproof. The town IC maybe ridiculed in the face of two more experienced IC scums.

I personally feel that that is dirty and underhanded. Why play a game you know is an easy win? Not only that, it would defeat the purpose of the game. LEARNING.

[IH]

I would also like to note that I can split the newbies I've played into two categories.

Players analysing everything with extremely long and productive posts (usually, even if they're not right)

or

Lurker fests with all players particiapting in the lurking because 'there's nothing else to say LAWL'