Open 810 | Aliensitter Needed! | Mafia wins

[Bingle]

i have a N0 guilty on bingle

VOTE: bingle

Claim serial killer. If you leave me alive I promise to shoot Menalque. Show of hands, who doesn’t want that?

[Bingle]

I see no hands. Clearly we’re all okay leashing me to kill mena.

[Bingle]

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out. psych claims immediately if has guilty (although letting pseudoclaims happen is reasonable for extra analysis fodder). Mafia likely use the roleblocker to kill n1 as they are most valuable. They also likely don’t target with their roleblock N1, as it is greater utility as the game proceeds.

No more mech discussion, including clarification about scum action optimization or WHY I would share such action optimization is appropriate on D1.

[Bingle]

VOTE: pooky

This asshole won’t get out of my backpack and keeps making me carry him.

[Bingle]

The eagle eyed among us may have noticed that he also didn’t deny being scum

CONVENIENT

Clearly Mena has been murdering Eagles to steal their eyes, and as such is a clear threat to an endangered species.

It is now your moral obligation to let me kill him.

[Bingle]

We are at E-1 on Bingle

Excellent

VOTE: bingle

That’s hammer

[Bingle]

THOSE BIRDS HAD IT COMING

Oh, is that how you lost your eye? I lost mine in a tragic volcano collision. Sadly, there were no survivors.

[Bingle]

VOTE: pooky

This asshole won’t get out of my backpack and keeps making me carry him.

ITS UNFORTUNATE WE ARE NEVER ON THE SAME SIDE BINGS

Hey, look. I tried my hardest to defend your team in impeachment. You all just kept getting caught on tape. You can’t pin that on me.

[Bingle]

VOTE: professor drapion

This might actually be scum lol

Assuming it’s hectic, as is the standard operating procedure with all users whose name I don’t recognize, that’s actually a pretty towny slot imo.

[Bingle]

VOTE: pooky

This asshole won’t get out of my backpack and keeps making me carry him.

ITS UNFORTUNATE WE ARE NEVER ON THE SAME SIDE BINGS

Hey, look. I tried my hardest to defend your team in impeachment. You all just kept getting caught on tape. You can’t pin that on me.

this is day pt not scum pt . go talk to pooky there smh

Sorry mod accidentally locked scum chat so I’m talking in code until he fixes it.

[Bingle]

What brings you to the site, Mr. Pokeymans sir?

What kind of Pokémon are you? Are you loyal through and through? Share with me your secrets deep inside.

[Bingle]

He is, explicitly. He signed up in the newbie queue as a newbie.

[Bingle]

Hey, look. I tried my hardest to defend your team in impeachment. You all just kept getting caught on tape. You can’t pin that on me.

YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO MAKE UP SOME MECH MUMBO JUMBO ABOUT HOW THE WATCHER RESULTS MUST BE FAKE AND CHEETORY MUST BE HALLUCINATING

Clearly we can’t trust cheats results. I mean look at the username:

cheatery

. He’s gotta be cheating. Now if this were coming from gorkington, we could all feel good about it, but sadly cheat has clobbered fork over the head and won’t let fork play. Cause he’s a cheat.

[Bingle]

So I have a spicy tinfoil theory. I think that professor Drapion is not actually a drapion at all and is a robot attempting to pretend to be a drapion for the purposes of making achieving a professorship more impressive. I know, I know, this is all very farfetch’d, but I do have evidence.

Firstly, drapion has been established to evolve at level 40, which as everyone knows is a very rare occurrence in a game of mafia. Usually you have to have several weirdos running conflicting gambits to even get close to level 10 play. I find it very unlikely that someone with no completed games has managed to pull of a high enough level maneuver to evolve.

He COULD be a naturally occurring drapion, as drapion have been encountered in many places. This is exceedingly unlikely on the basis that there have been 0 wild drapion sightings in Central Park. Indeed, there aren’t even any confirmed drapion sightings in the greater New York area. Occams suggests that such a large Pokémon would have been spotted at least once during its migration.

Furthermore, when I began quoting music from Pokémon soundtracks, drapion remained ignorant of the context and didn’t respond to his supposed people’s music. I find this very suspicious.

Thirdly, when preparing to battle Mena, drapion mentioned that his claw was ready. Claw: singular, not plural. As everyone knows, drapion as a species has two claws, four spiked limbs and a scorpion like tail. This lack of biological familiarity with his supposed species is highly suspicious.

Finally, it is common knowledge that very few Pokémon have learned to speak proper English. Among those who have, a predilection towards using their own species name (such as the famous Team Rocket Meowth) is still common. drapion has shown a distinct lack of these behaviors. Clearly, the preponderance of evidence shows: Drapion must be a robot.

[Bingle]

WTF VOTE: pooky

No, I enter with a vote on pooky to distance. You were supposed to lead the miselim wagon on Mena after we pocket him.

[Bingle]

Cyborg actually, had a translator transplant.
(Messed up quote before)

Sounds like something a robot would say, tbh.

[Bingle]

guys gypyx and bingle are scum together

When trying to quote this, I accidentally hit the report button originally. Probably because I’m so used to being BETRAYED.

[Bingle]

VOTE: gypx

For reel reels though VOTE: gypyx

[Bingle]

Just like Cain and Abel, he’s pulled a sneak attack.

[Bingle]

Now Bingle, got any other early reads?

Mena slightly scummy, pooky low priority, your slot has tells but I need to wait for the psych evaluation result to determine if they’re scummy or towny. Dann strongest townread. I’d be voting lukewarm if I weren’t voting gypyx, but I think the gypyx wagon is more likely to be spicy atm.

You?

[Bingle]

*announcer voice*

And yes, that’s dannflor entering the thread folks, ooh, it’s not off to a good start! How many yikes out of 5 is that judges?

4/5 yikes! Hoo boy, that’s a lot of yikes for dannflor’s entrance!

Nah, Mena, we’ve got the monkey this game, not the judge.

[Bingle]

Hmmm. Too many scum reads, not enough time. Monkey get your ass in here, I have need of you.

[Bingle]

Yeah, remember when I said we were done with mechtalk for D1? That was me saying we’re done with mechtalk for D1.

I didn’t think I needed to clarify that.

[Bingle]

Lukewarm, do you have any non-pokemon related thoughts on any players yet?

Yeah. I am actually suspicious of Bingle making the suggestion for the psych to automatically out a guilty result. Because imo, that seems more likely to out the sitter then to out mafia.

I think that they know that too, because they were in the Open Setup review of the game that the mod linked to in the first post, and there they talked about the Psych having "a fake inno and a fake guilty on a questionable reliability investigative."

So from my PoV, Bingle came out with some anti-town advice, and then said for no one to question them

Let me give you a quick rundown on how Bingle do.

Bingle will argue the optimal strategy for town as he sees it, regardless of his alignment. Bingle is good at mechanics speak. Bingle is very good at mechanics speak. Bingle is widely regarded as among the best at mechanics on site. Bingle has said, specifically, that there are a bunch of things that are mechanically optimal, and that we should not discuss mechanics speak further for the rest of the day.

Either, Bingle is telling the truth that this is a protown maneuver or Bingle is crippling his ability to lean into mechanics speak, setting himself up to be questioned thoroughly on not D1 (historically the day when Bingle wants to be questioned in order to establish himself), and taking a harsh departure from what is a tried and true strategy Bingle has used as both town and scum for literally years to a pretty good result in a lobby that is at least half full of people who know Bingle pretty well.

Feel free to scumread me for it (I in fact enjoy scumreads, they are delicious) but we are done talking mech for D1.

[Bingle]

I am still debating whether to play to the meta some (older) players know, or the one I want to revert to.

Ah, speak of the monkey and he doth appear.

Could you do me a teensy favor and devote investigative energy at the other pirate? I am concerned that he's tailoring his play to appeal to me and I'm unsure how to read into that. Thank you.

[Bingle]

VOTE: T3

Every post above me is town.

VOTE: VFP

The quoted post is literally a scum claim.

NGL.
I didn’t notice that till you pointed it out.

on the other hand, ew @ this

VOTE: professor

still not a fan of Pooky ftr

That is like the third most compelling reason to wagon him!

[Bingle]

*announcer voice*

And yes, that’s dannflor entering the thread folks, ooh, it’s not off to a good start! How many yikes out of 5 is that judges?

4/5 yikes! Hoo boy, that’s a lot of yikes for dannflor’s entrance!

So your telling me you think this:

VOTE: gypx

guys gypyx and bingle are scum together

Is more yikes then this:

WTF VOTE: pooky

Despite the fact that I am townreading Dann, I endorse this gif and it's message.

[Bingle]

Town:

Dannflor
T3
PookyTheMagicalBear
Almost50

Needs more content before being arbitrarily shuffled into a pile:

GrandpaMo
ManWithNoName
Pine

Scum:

Lukewarm
VFP
Menalque
ProfessorDrapion
Gypyx

Yes. All nine of those are genuine reads with genuine reasoning. I'm not going to bother explaining most of them at the moment, and they're loosely ordered based on how accurate my gut says they might be.

[Bingle]

Could you do me a teensy favor and devote investigative energy at the other pirate? I am concerned that he's tailoring his play to appeal to me and I'm unsure how to read into that. Thank you.

I take it you're referring to Menalque? I think he's clear.. or at least he appears to be so far.

Aye. The things he's doing feel town to me, but they're also exactly the things I would expect Mena to do to try to pocket me. Particularly: Early SR on me and going after Dann right out of the gate are things I think Mena is aware I'm likely to TR.

[Bingle]

Explain your VFP read.

Entrance was aggressively meh, seems to be moderately around and yet is only addressing topics that don't really have substance.

I officially endorse A50 poking this with a stick.

[Bingle]

So does Drapion.

Hmm.

[Bingle]

Good Post!

Nah.

Basically every bit of analysis is off point.

[Bingle]

So through these analytical posts... I don't think mafia goes out in their way to actually give out on what town does. Mafia specifically in this setup where it is their job to figure out PRs does not give PRs help unless its direct manipulation to favor a specific result. However, seeing what Bingle has said, I doubt there is a world where Bingle actually does this as mafia. Looking back at their older games, they seem the same as their townplaystyle. Also their continued aggression and coherent reads are okay, there is some I disagree with however and I will explain later.

Exactly wrong. Scum loves to hide in mechspeak.

Looking at post 41, this is a very towny entrance from Mena and like I said why I townread Mena from early game. Mafia is more inclined to just stay back and let town push and interact members. However, they could be experienced enough to just do that as Mafia. But usually from the games I have played in, this is what I have been through and seen and it is usually right; early pushes (especially the first player) tend to be town. Also something to remark, is that if Drap is scum this is the only reference I see them scum in early game and that is in post 35. I replied to Mena hoping for an answer on this, but no answer sadly.

No.

Honestly, this is a bad pairing for this reason. I doubt mafia busses day 1 in this setup. Bingle is hard pushing Gypyx and while everyone is pushing Drap, Bingle is staying on with a read that they think Gypyx is scum (look at post 99 where they they say a Gypx BW is more spicy implying wanting it more). This is a weird enterence too but at least its better than lukewarm's enterence. You are still null since you haven't done nothing that scummy right after.

I... What? Dann's read is bad because I pushed Gypyx afterwards? What?

The next two bits of analysis are A50 and me saying functionally the same thing about me, and a townread on me + scumread on A50 for it.

I'm fascinated how g-pa knows he disagrees with all of my reads when I've given reasoning for very few of them, but the preflip pairing of Luke and Monkey is p gross.

148 is a fine post and being willing to back down isn't inherently scummy at all.

[Bingle]

I think A50 needs to stop defending Town Bingle.

I would be genuinely shocked to find A50 was townreading me here.

[Bingle]

Unless I talk in my sleep; I don't believe I stated a single TR on any of the players in this game as of yet.

You haven't. I was correcting the misread that you think I'm significantly more likely to be town than scum, when I think we both know you leanscum me atm.

[Bingle]

@Pooks

I'll let you know if there's important bidness in the walls, dw.

Do you have motivation/reads yet?

[Bingle]

Snip

As the bingle in question, I can assure you that my mechspeak is literally the worst reason you could possibly have for town reading me, and your reason for townreading mena is similarly bad.

Dann expressed a partner read on Gyp and I in 84. I expressed a serious vote on gypyx in 91. 91 > 84. Therefore, saying that Dann's partner read in 85 is bad because I was voting Gypyx is... Bad.

A50 talking about my mechspeak being NAI is NAI because A50 has the required knowledge about me to know that my mechspeak is NAI which I mentioned in the post where I said that my mechspeak was NAI. NAI.

I'm not saying you're scumreading me for having wrong reads. I'm saying you think my reads are wrong without knowing why I have them, which is pretty TMI.

Townies aren't afraid to be wrong, they put out content because they believe in it.

[Bingle]

Which is like EXTRA extra concerning when you consider that dann normally radiates town when scum

FTFY

Also, Dann was on my TM team and we bounced reads back and forth consistently for the last like 3 months. This looks exactly like what Dann thought about Ari's game.

[Bingle]

Okay so what in those 9 posts is reminding you so strongly of town!dann’s thought processes?

Dann, wrt Ari game, came to the same conclusions as I did pretty much constantly. He disagreed with Hectic/Ydrasse, but we were pretty much lockstep the rest of the way up till XLO.

Dann, wrt this game, had the exact same reaction I did to 81/82, gave 0 shits about the optics of going after what is probably the easiest target of his scumreads (voting lukewarm over me/gypyx) even before I agreed to the gypyx wagon and then didn't bother to justify it when called on it. 101 further solidified the townread, because it's a true statement. Town Dann doesn't care if his posting is yikes. Scum Dann knows exactly how his posts will appear. His posting wrt you mirrors my own thoughts about your actions near perfectly.

Given that my recent experience with Dann says town him and town me have similar takeaways and he appears to have rented out some room in my brain atm, my townread remains and solidifies. Given that he doesn't appear self conscious at all with his posting I have no desire to try to force him to obvtown and get shot on N1.

[Bingle]

specifically pine and man?

I have confidence that MWNN can towntell if he's town, but Pine is gonna lurksack D1. That's just the way Pines do.

[Bingle]

MWNN I think has flaked. In fact I know he did (and that was well before this game ever started or even filled in)

Sad news. I was looking forward to playing with him.

[Bingle]

Bingle, how are you reading A50 so far?

Why, Town AF, of course.

Eh. It's not that strong yet. There's a few things that make it very likely, but this list is small enough you might be trying to manipulate me specifically.

[Bingle]

dann i need to hear from you. you ask this question then dip which is wack.

Contextually it might help you to know that I locktowned A50 before page 10 of the large normal for TM when he was largely scumread, A50 guessed I would shortly after I expressed this in the team chat and I was 100% correct.

I'm not entirely sure why Dann is worried about it just now, but he is likely to put a lot of stock in my ability to read A50.

[Bingle]

Pooky, I think GPa believes his angles to be true regardless of his alignment, which makes me think at the very least he and Drap aren't S/S. Do you get a different vibe?

[Bingle]

Pooky, I think GPa believes his angles to be true regardless of his alignment, which makes me think at the very least he and Drap aren't S/S. Do you get a different vibe?

what is s/s?

Scum Scum. I don't think you and drap are both aligned with the mafia together based specifically on the impression that your reasoning is genuine. I could see a case for either of you individually, although I think you're probably just town playing at a surface level atm.

[Bingle]

Scum want to find the masons here and I think you're trying to do exactly that.

FWIW, I don't think this is the goal if drap is scum. I think it's more likely he's looking to avoid making waves by getting a sense of how the town feels b/c he doesn't strike me as comfortable enough with his position to be PR hunting. Drap has come across as very self conscious about how he's being read and that doesn't mesh well with risking the limelight to worry about hunting PRs here.

If drap IS PR hunting it's likely on a team of fresher players, as anyone with experience will know that the best way to PR hunt is after the thread has locked for the night so that you don't accidentally out that you're planning out your NK.

[Bingle]

the more i think about it, the more i think about my first game and how its really not a fair assessment to the other games. newbie 2059 was an easy game compared to this and mafia scumslipped and the other was coasty mafia so honestly i think thats how we won

Basically?

Town wants to find scum and look town in that order.
Scum wants to look town and find people who look like they might be scum but aren't actually in that order.

Opens, barring odd setups that discourage encourage specific S/S interactions, are mostly the same as closed setups outside of claiming.

I think the place you are wrong here is specifically that you're townreading effort, which is not a solid play because the characteristic that makes a good scumgame a good scumgame is that it looks like a towngame, and a large chunk of this playerlist is notable for having a good scumgame.

That's not to say that I'm absolutely right and you're absolutely wrong. I think I'm right and you're wrong, and I'm going to act as if I'm right and you're wrong, and I'm not going to apologize for it, but mafia is a difficult game and there are many ways to catch scum.

If you're town, the best idea is to keep saying what you think and being unapologetic about it (although civility is helpful regardless of alignment if you want to have any hope of convincing people) because being genuine is a trait inherent in most towngames.

There are other ways to play (both Pine and I tend to play the game to manipulate people to be off guard and thus more easily readable as both alignments, for example) but the one I just described will probably give you the best results overall, especially if you're fairly new to the game.

[Bingle]

He did it with stunning cold blood in the last game.

[Bingle]

Hmm. One of my top two scum reads coming to the defense of the other.

Can you elaborate a bit on the T3 read? I'm interested in why you think he's scum.

[Bingle]

As to why people are scumreading Prof:

His entrance sounded forced, and his immediate justification for it makes me think he's too worried about how he's coming across. 19 is a bit performative and I don't particularly like the way he danced around my wagon. This was less of a big deal when I thought he was a true newbie, but being an alt makes it less likely to simply be jitters.

His fluff/content ratio is actually pretty good, but the content he does have is very political. Sheeping me and asking for my other reads is a very safe move, even if I'm right on Gypyx. 103 shows an effort=town read for both me and Mena. VFP/T3/Gypyx feel mostly like fluff reads. It feels more like a readslist because he thought I expected him to have reads at that point in the game than a genuine reads list. I also would have expected a natural thought process to put the very similar reads of me and Mena adjacent to each other, rather than as bookends to the weaker, low content reads.

It's been mentioned that 113 is a pretty awful take. (A50 calling VFP's post a scumclaim is incredibly nonintuitive and I'd expect anyone without extensive A50 experience to look at that and go "What are you smoking old man?" not "Oh, yeah, 3 townreads in RVS is a scumclaim.") This suggests to me that Prof had absolutely no paranoia about A50's comment, which shows a distinct lack of town perspective in that he wasn't trying to figure out A50's alignment.

128 is a defense by way of pedantry (often scum). It's not "I'm not scummy and here's why" it's "You shouldn't think I'm scummy for that specific reason."

teal deer: He's playing a very political game, and I don't think his solving is genuine.

[Bingle]

I left off at 128 because I haven't been focused on reading him recently and haven't spent a lot of effort on parsing the recent posting.

[Bingle]

As for Drap, I agree his questions (asking for reads) could be an elaborate way of hunting the Mason Lovers. You ask for reads, you try to find 2 people who TR each other for no good reason, and you probably found the Masons.

We should probably table discussions about how to mason hunt for the time being.

[Bingle]

Yo drapion, why no response to my halfassed case on you?

[Bingle]

Yo drapion, why no response to my halfassed case on you?

Must have missed it.
What’s the number?

P.S. I’m also playing another game on another site.

:eyebrows:

As to why people are scumreading Prof:

His entrance sounded forced, and his immediate justification for it makes me think he's too worried about how he's coming across. 19 is a bit performative and I don't particularly like the way he danced around my wagon. This was less of a big deal when I thought he was a true newbie, but being an alt makes it less likely to simply be jitters.

His fluff/content ratio is actually pretty good, but the content he does have is very political. Sheeping me and asking for my other reads is a very safe move, even if I'm right on Gypyx. 103 shows an effort=town read for both me and Mena. VFP/T3/Gypyx feel mostly like fluff reads. It feels more like a readslist because he thought I expected him to have reads at that point in the game than a genuine reads list. I also would have expected a natural thought process to put the very similar reads of me and Mena adjacent to each other, rather than as bookends to the weaker, low content reads.

It's been mentioned that 113 is a pretty awful take. (A50 calling VFP's post a scumclaim is incredibly nonintuitive and I'd expect anyone without extensive A50 experience to look at that and go "What are you smoking old man?" not "Oh, yeah, 3 townreads in RVS is a scumclaim.") This suggests to me that Prof had absolutely no paranoia about A50's comment, which shows a distinct lack of town perspective in that he wasn't trying to figure out A50's alignment.

128 is a defense by way of pedantry (often scum). It's not "I'm not scummy and here's why" it's "You shouldn't think I'm scummy for that specific reason."

teal deer: He's playing a very political game, and I don't think his solving is genuine.

[Bingle]

It doesn't matter how experienced other players are. If Drap's experience tells him it's possible then it's the strategy he will follow. It is his experience level that matters here.

Again, I think that's far more likely to be LAMIST than PR hunting.

Drap's response does kinda seem like a "You've caught me for the wrong reasons" defense though.

[Bingle]

This is the proper format:

Drap is town because ___________

^ the reason used here should be your strongest reason.

Teel deer:

Antiassociatives and gamestate read.

GPa agrees that Drap is nominally scummy on play, but thinks there are bigger fish to fry who are not S/S with Drap.

[Bingle]

Bingle, wouldn't it be so random if you just like, voted Drapion right now?

I'm considering it.

[Bingle]

gramps nbodo ywill blame you lets go

whats the vc? am i hammer?

Drap is E-2, but N_M will hammer whatever wagon hits E-1.

[Bingle]

I'm saying that you think Drap looks scummy, but that because of the things around him you think he is actually town.

You did have things you townread him for based on his own play, I will admit that. I think they are not town indicative things and thus largely ignored them. For example, you think Drap's tr on me makes drap likely town when I think townreading me is actually fairly sketchy from him. If you put more weight behind those things than I thought I apologize, but I assumed given the title of the case that the contextual clues were more important to you and pooky was looking for a "Strongest reason".

Am I wrong that you see what drap has done as something that is reasonable to scumread? (That's what is meant by nominally scummy, btw)

[Bingle]

I’m no PR so it doesn’t really matter too too much.
I’m also in another game and it’s hard to do both with so much working IRL.

Oh. Okay then. Dead thread here I come!

VOTE: drap

[Bingle]

You’re not awake, pooky.

[Bingle]

Just as general advice, GPa, you wanna avoid relying too much on preflip partner associations because you can easily fall into confirmation biases. I personally don't know how drap's flip will influence my reads either way, because after the night I'll have more information and will want to reevaluate either way. Getting too married to an association can lead in to chaining mislims based on one bad read.

I don't have any regrets about this lim either way, because regardless of flip we have a ton of information based on how people interacted with drap and the wagon. If he flips scum, sweet. If he flips town, oh well, but we didn't lose a PR and he has been a major talking point for the majority of the day.

[Bingle]

Pooky is probably scum if Drap dies and then there’s good odds I die tonight despite having done fuck all so far

You're an incredibly likely protection in this list, I doubt scum tries to kill you.

[Bingle]

btw the fact that drap is dead but still hasnt shown up to give dying reads or w/e means this slot probly flips red

Well, here's how I see it: If he flips red then you're right. If he flips green then you're wrong. (No need to praise or applaud. It's not the first time you know how much of a genius this monkey is)

But what if he flips pancakes?

Bingle, asking the hardhitting questions nobody wanted answers to.

[Bingle]

drap got limmed right around the weekend when I finally had (a bit of) free time and was planning to try and play

I did this just for you. I just wanted to make you feel that sweet sweet frustration.

[Bingle]

I found a place

Yay!

Good Luck Mena. Come back to us when you're less busy with IRL. I'll try to make sure the thread is locked for night when you do

[Bingle]

Dannflor has disappeared! They were a Vanilla Townie.

[Bingle]

Right. I received a psychologist innocent result on Dannflor.

Please claim your real result or a fake one in your next post, if you haven't done so already. If you got a no result due to being roleblocked, you should claim to have targeted Dannflor, regardless of your actual target.

The reason this is valuable is because there is a 1/11 chance for a false guilty, a 1/11 for a useless result (Dannflor), a 1/11 for a real guilty, and a 8/11 for a real inno. That means that 73% of the time the D1 Psychologist result is useful. It's also likely that the mafia team already has a significantly reduced PR pool based on play and Motion Detection.

We should not hypoclaim results tomorrow, as after tonight the psychologist is probably completely useless in generating innos and guilties (Both scum will have successfully killed, and thus both scum will be false innocents.) but the Psychologist should still be targeting to obfuscate MD results.

We 100% should be aiming to murderface the Roleblocker specifically today, which means that we're aiming specifically for the most protected of the scumlords. The roleblocker, assuming setup understanding, will have been marginally more likely to bus and will be marginally less likely to have been bussed. I intend at some point to look through Drap's townreads as that is where I'll be focusing the majority of my attention.

The day opening of votes on Mena make me disinclined to vote there.

[Bingle]

OH LORD WOMBAT, GREAT TREE OF THE FOREST, YOUR SHEEP CAPTAIN BECKONS. ISO THE DRAPION AND GIVE UNTO ME YOUR THOUGHTS.

[Bingle]

wait why out a inno on the dead person . is it because of babysitter can protect u?

Hypoclaiming. Everyone claims a result, that way if the actual psychomologist has an innocent we don't lose it to them dying and they can remain unclaimed until just before XLO to hopefully narrow the lim pool. At this point they're functionally a visitor, but we know the role exists so they can selfconftown via claiming.

If roleblocked, the psychologist knows it due to a lack of results and so can avoid a fake innocent by claiming the invest on the dead player.

[Bingle]

Everyone claims an innocent result, that way if the actual psychomologist has an innocent we don't lose it to them dying and they can remain unclaimed until just before XLO to hopefully narrow the lim pool. At this point they're functionally a visitor, but we know the role exists so they can selfconftown via claiming.

FTFM, but we specifically want inno hypos. Actual guilties should just out, since a babysitter getting outed isn't the end of the world, particularly when we're up a lim.

[Bingle]

wait was i not supposed to fake claim no result

that part wasnt clear to me at all

It's suboptimal to fake a no result since scum would know if you did or didn't get roleblocked but wouldn't know if you did or didn't target Dann.

If you did get roleblocked, it tells them nothing, but it risks outing additional information to them for no reward.

[Bingle]

Oh, feel free to ask me questions about my proposed strategy from D1 today, as the psychologist is now a largely useless role and it being outed is not a big deal, tbh, as scum won't be too worried about killing there. (Far more important from their POV to hit the other PRs)

A large part of my Gypyx scumread early was what I saw as a manufactured slip. Luke doubling down on it was also :/

[Bingle]

Hey, funky monkey. I don't have you as locktown yet. What gives?

[Bingle]

I am around ish, but there are things I want to see happen before I push anywhere specific today.

[Bingle]

lmfao i thought we could still request a prod if maj of playerbase agrees to right?

Some mods will provide informal prods if requested, but there's no real function of prod via request for most games.

Pine's lack of presence D1 is neither surprising nor noteworthy. He has a meta of just not playing D1 unless you drag it out of him and he's generally strong enough late game that people (including me) let him get away with it more often than not. This is probably a flake, though, as Pine has been busy IRL as far as I can tell. (He hasn't posted on site in the last week, from a brief glance at his post history, although I didn't switch accounts to check for a subforum presence.

[Bingle]

bad rxn. because everyone was literally saying how it was so optimal for mafia to bus especially considering its not RB or MD.

It's not optimal for mafia to bus (and in fact, this setup is fairly antibus in general). If a player were going to bus, it would be more likely for the RB to bus, as they are the scum player who needs to survive the most. Generally with a D1 elimination bussing comes late or from players who jumped on and then never had a chance to move somewhere else. Neither of these apply to N_M in any meaningful way. (N_M hardpushed drap from a point where drap wasn't really under a ton of pressure and never let up.)

[Bingle]

What can I do for you Bingle?

You're not someone I'm specifically waiting on, but if you're looking for a place that analysis is needed I'd be interested in seeing NKA or wagon comp analysis.

I'm mostly staying quiet because I feel like I dominated the discussion D1 and I would like to see where it leads when I take a more passive role in things + A50 and the rest of the hypoclaims.

[Bingle]

didn't you say otherwise? hold on lemme quote.

You were reading into what I was saying, I believe.

In this setup, scum is greatly disadvantaged by losing any of their team. The roles in order of power are RB>Encryptor>MD. What I had said was that if bussing happened (implied by a D1 scumflip) RB is slightly more likely to have been the one who bussed than the one who didn't.

[Bingle]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Summation of points:

Hardbussing was unlikely.
Scum was probably onwagon at some point, either as someone who tried to distance and had it backfire or someone who joined late for towncred.
RB is more likely to have been fishing for towncred, though this point isn't particularly hard and fast as it's also driven by individual responses.
The way N_M approached the Drap wagon doesn't look like scum who knew their partner was going down anyway or scum who didn't actually intend to get the elimination, and so is probably town regardless.

[Bingle]

Yeah, okay. A50 is town.

[Bingle]

PenguinPower

[Bingle]

@Bingle. How do you feel about Almost50 coming to Pooky's defense? Do you agree with his defense?

I feel very lukewarm about it. A50's defense of Pooky isn't particularly spicy, but Pooky's play is increasingly interesting.

Pooky has had a real rough go of scum recently, and I expect him to play demoralized as scum. Pooky also knows I was in 2/3 of his recent scumsasters and modded the third, so the fact that he's low impact while sheeping me is all sorts of interesting.

I'm largely ambivalent to the pooky wagon as a whole, though.

Also, as to the continued assertions that Pine slot is PoE, there's actually a pretty solid reason to scumread him that hasn't come up and I'm surprised it hasn't. There was very little resistance to the drap wagon, which means an absent scumbuddy is significantly more likely than normal.

[Bingle]

As scum? Because you'd know I'd know that you've had low motivation in your scum games recently. You sheeping me is actually the most towny part of your ISO imo.

[Bingle]

Pre planning lims is a bad idea.

[Bingle]

Menalque, Pine and Gypyx have been prodded.

This sounds like the start of a dirty joke.

[Bingle]

He does not. He's electing to not partake in the hypoclaiming innos on the grounds that he thinks he found the babysitter and is announcing you as his main scumread. Or he's attempting to throw mud into the water that was fucked up by people not understanding my directions clearly. Or he's crumbing Babysitter to me. Or he picked up on a signal I sent to him that I'm the real psychologist. Or he's trying to pocket me into thinking he's acknowledging a signal I sent him and he's secretly scum playing on a level I haven't anticipated from him, which is nominally possible but not supported by prior experience.

Basically, 5D chess and not worth a CC if someone else is actually a psychologist, specifically because this is A50 we're talking about.

[Bingle]

I am so confused

Yeah... That's pretty normal for trying to read A50.

Your options are get into a relationship where you try to outguess how deep the other one is playing which ends up making you very compatible when you're both town and have an escalation of arms trying to outguess each other when you're not or to assume he's lying regardless of alignment and read him solely on results.

Honestly, effort for effect, the second is probably the wiser choice. I just like the mind games aspect of our relationship too much.

[Bingle]

the wilder the shit he spews into the thread the more dashingly town he is

i have no idea if I should nightkill him or not and I don't even have a nightkill

You should never kill A50. It's much more fun to convince the cop that the innocent they have on him is fake and get him limmed in XLO.

how did we get from hypo-claiming to counter-hypo-claiming

what is this madness

THIS IS SPARTA!

wooo uh, i forgot this game for a while not gonna lie, and these last three posts scare me ngl

could anyone say like in 3 lines what happenned?

also wanted to do this iirc VOTE: VFP

“- McCroskey: Jacobs, I want to know absolutely everything that's happened up till now.
- Jacobs: Well, let's see. First the earth cooled. And then the dinosaurs came, but they got too big and fat, so they all died and they turned into oil. And then the Arabs came and they bought Mercedes Benzes. And Prince Charles started wearing all of Lady Di's clothes. I couldn't believe it.”

he's even better at catching bad guys when he starts off with a list.

Prod received, but I’m afraid I’m basically just prodging again

As mentioned, I’ll have more time after tomorrow once my move is complete

pine said the same thing but dipped

hope ur not like my dad

Holy shit, Pinecone, how are you already this good at mafia?

[Bingle]

I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about, A50.

[Bingle]

SPEAKING OF BINGLE where are the townreads coming from?

@Gyp you're not NOT trying to make enemies, y'know?

Some of it is people thinking effort is AI, and then townreading me even harder when I point out that it’s not. I’m pretty sure pooky is tr-ing me because I’m playing similarly to the TM Large theme. A50 tr on me is for reasons, but I don’t find it scummy.

Other than that, fuck if I know.

[Bingle]

Wait was drapion actually a newbie? I thought it was hectic?

Drap was explicitly an alt but said his main was limbaity and he got yelled at for trying to in as a newbie, so def not hectic.

[Bingle]

Pooky, I think GPa believes his angles to be true regardless of his alignment, which makes me think at the very least he and Drap aren't S/S. Do you get a different vibe?

@Johnny what do you make of this?

[Bingle]

Who you tryna vote Bingle

Explicitly no one because I think people are putting too much weight on my reads.

[Bingle]

im hard townreading bingle because he's really scary good and if he's town he'll catch all the bad guys

also if i hard townread him the scum have an incentive to shoot him and if they shoot him i wont have to worry he's scum

im big smarts

^People

[Bingle]

The joke he quoted from you and claimed it was serious analysis makes me disagree a little. Also this and the 10 or so posts in his iso after it

Which joke? I've admittedly been skimming a lot of his content.

[Bingle]

Oh, lol, I'd forgotten I made that post.

Also, which games of mine did you read, GPa?

[Bingle]

That's... an interesting spread. Any particular reason behind the choices? Did you read any scum games?

[Bingle]

GPa, Role call is a hallmark game to point to effort being NAI (or maybe even scummy) for me and you townread me for it anyway. Thoughts?

[Bingle]

Yeah, I saw that you think I match my other game more. But the reasoning you gave for TR-ing me early D1 was that I was efforting, and I told you that was a bad reason to TR me.

[Bingle]

Exactly wrong. Scum loves to hide in mechspeak.

Eh this early? I doubt that. I still townread you. You wouldn't be risking that as scum.

[Bingle]

Bingle I can't help but feel this game's on your back burner

To an extent. Mafia in general is on my backburner.

I feel like I've had an unhealthy amount of influence over this game in particular, though, and was hoping that in my absence someone else would step up. I also vaguely want to see if Mena actually shows up.

Your points about GPa are interesting, particularly with the knowledge that the meta he used on me is a smattering of games from roughly a year ago. I'm largely ambivalent to the T3 wagon, but find it fascinating that it went from 0 votes to functionally E-2 overnight. (GPa is offwagon, but might as well be on wagon for how clear that progression is. I think you've been a positive influence on the thread since your rep in.

[Bingle]

@bingle who should I be voting for

I'm incredibly disengaged from the game.

[Bingle]

Why are you so sure that Johnny is town? I am on the fence about hammer or not hammering, but your confidence that he is town is giving me pause. What am I missing?

I think JF is probably town on the back of him pushing GPa with decent reasoning despite me hard defending him. That’s a “this is really likely to explode in my face” play.

I’ll get back into this today, no hammer before tomorrow please.

[Bingle]

I accept cash apologies upon flip

I'm going to apologize when your not hat is a crime against Fashion

I added the missing not for you pooky.

[Bingle]

Winning games before June is overrated. June is an excellent month to win games in.

[Bingle]

Do you have thought wrt GPa going back more than a year to find meta, finding a game that demonstrates my capability to tryhard as scum, and then effort read me as town, pooks?

[Bingle]

I said the wagon was functionally e-1 with NM here. He likes hammers.

[Bingle]

Bingle, Almost50, and Johnny are all saying that we should not hammer Johnny. They cannot all 3 be scum. So I am trying to figure out what Almost50 and Bingle are thinking and why they are both trying to derail this wagon.

I’m not actually saying that, fwiw. There is a large part of me that wants to just hammer and gamble on pooky/nm being right.

[Bingle]

Eh, fuck it.

VOTE: Johnny

[Bingle]

Psych now holsters and claims in XLO, FWIW.

[Bingle]

VOTE: No Elim

[Bingle]

why no lim? like yeah we're on evens but better keep as many voices as possible alive

Actually mathematically suboptimal. No lim is better earlier in this case because we have the additional flip info earlier and scum has less to work on to narrow down the psychologist kill, when outing the psychologist is disproportionately more powerful the later it happens.

Also, I don't think there's an obvious NK right now and I want to know who scum would choose, which I can do without losing any potential town utility.

[Bingle]

and yup no fakes guities, although we can't have real ones too se psych is now basically useless

Untrue. They're an IC claim at worst, and might potentially have a conditional inno/hard guilty.

[Bingle]

i dont like what u said in bolded...

? What do you not like about it?

8 alive with 2 scum. That's two mislims to lose.
If we no lim, we have 7 alive with 2 scum. That's two mislims to lose.

There is no opportunity in the setup at this point to net a mislim.

There is no lost utility to the setup if we no elim, as opposed to a closed where we might have a hidden doc or a previous day phase where we could still have a successful protect that nets us an extra miselimination.

The counter argument of course is "More town voices" but I think "Who would scum kill here?" is more valuable than any individual POV solve wise. I don't think there's a single universal townread that scum would simply always kill here.

[Bingle]

i literally said i didnt want to solve because i dont want the scum to have an idea where to shoot tonight

^

@Mena:

[Bingle]

im psychologist lol

Any counterclaims?

[Bingle]

this is so stupid i have no idea why we fucking did not con demn the day before. it gives a better chance. now you think about who mafia is gonna kill this game....

Objectively wrong. We now have a 2/6 as opposed to a 2/7 of liming scum. Empirically, odd numbers benefit towns and even numbers benefit scum.

Today is the correct day for the psychologist to fullclaim as we still have a day to test it if the mafia choose to cc. I am VT.

NM efforting as much as he has this game is heavily town indicative.

[Bingle]

Eh, we can wait to get the cc until pooky explains himself, ig.

[Bingle]

While we wait, Gypyx have you played with psychologists before?

[Bingle]

Hm. The post where I thought you’d slipped as not understanding the role you actually hadn’t. I’d forgotten the encryptor was a godfather.

[Bingle]

Night 3 I checked your mum and got a I'm lying I'm really VT result

Thank you for this, she's needed a psychiatrist for years.

[Bingle]

NM claimed VT in a very NM way.

Claiming psychologist as VT here is literally gamethrowing.

[Bingle]

You think NM put effort?

On a scale adjusted for meta, NM is unironically the highest effort slot in the game and effort is actually town indicative for him ime.

[Bingle]

I’m content to wait for a retraction or confirmation on that cc. It should be immediate. Only scum has reason to need to think that situation through. If anyone else is actually the psych, they should claim in their next post.

[Bingle]

You think NM put effort?

On a scale adjusted for meta, NM is unironically the highest effort slot in the game and effort is actually town indicative for him ime.

[Bingle]

IC is innocent child = confirmed town.

I'm also not comparing N_M to anyone in this game. I'm comparing Not Mafia to Not Mafia in other games. He's town, and I'd bet the game on it. And at least one other town player has the experience to be able to say that.

Anyone who says N_M could be scum here either has never played with N_M or is themselves scum.

[Bingle]

Adjusting N_M's amount of effort this game to the amount of effort N_M usually puts into games, he has comparatively put more effort into the game than any two other slots combined. This is not at all a joke. Remember, Mena wanted to PL him and asked if he was going to actually play this game when he repped in.

[Bingle]

2nd; again, it looks like u are comparing him to from your past perception of NM (usually from past games) so why r u saying u weren't?

I am 100% comparing N_M to past games. That's literally what I said. I am saying anyone with any amount of experience with N_M can tell you N_M has put more effort into this game than any scumgame he's played. Look at Mena's characterization of N_M's scumgame. Naked voting random townies (not a hyperbolic statement). Compare that to N_M aggressively (by the standard of N_M) pushing flipped scum.

[Bingle]

Look at the way I cheerleadered the Drap wagon and A50's death and tell me I'm not.

Also, I probably would have shot you.

[Bingle]

Last night.

Scum me would have had the options of you/pooky. Pooky was hardtownreading me, A50 was easily mislimmable as a "No one in this lobby can read A50 half as well as I can" and you default to a scumread on me AND can win that 1v1.

You die 10/10 games where I'm scum here and I just win.

[Bingle]

I’m about to check lukewarm too, but seeing as VFP had to have been the kill it seems more likely that if it was purely for PR reasons the slip would be from their ISO, right?

My guess is masonry read, tbh. I haven't looked at the map of scum/townreads, but there was likely a dwindling mason pool when they died.

[Bingle]

Actually, that's a pretty interesting angle. Who was definitely not a mason pair as of N2.

[Bingle]

Why for the love of Christ did you hammer Johnny there bingle

Combination of gamestate scumread on Pine and trust in N_M/Pooky. Also I was bored.

[Bingle]

Also do you agree that scum double bussed on D1?

Neither you nor GPa are hard townreads for me, no. It's definitely possible, and I'd say that the two of you almost certainly aren't S/S, but I wouldn't bet the game on you both being town.

[Bingle]

He reminds me of me as newbscum from 500 years ago or whenever I joined the site.

[Bingle]

Like, objectively, if he's scum he's played a solid ass game, no doubt. On the other hand there's a bunch of little things that ping. I find it hard to believe he doesn't understand why his style of rhetoric is ineffective. His response to "Your townread on me is for bad reasons" was "I'm townreading you for pointing out that my townread on you is for bad reasons." When I noped the fuck out of the thread and refused to help, he didn't get frustrated or try to convince me to help or push me he just kind of... let it happen and then quietly pivoted into "Maybe Bingle scum?" He hard defended Drap for really bad reasons.

Nothing in there is lockscum. I can see exactly why town GPa might have done it. But there's enough substance that I'm not going to assume he's town and call it a day.

[Bingle]

The only options are (T3, NM, gypyx) and none of those seem particularly likely

I agree that it's probably not T3/Mo. I don't think it's you or N_M either. That leaves Mo as only scum with gypyx. Why isn't Gypyx/Mo a possibility to you?

[Bingle]

Also, for the sake of optimization, I'd like to know how you ruled out me/Mo.

[Bingle]

where kills have ended up

?

I don't think scumkills here are all that telling, tbh.

Dannflor was firmly in his TM PR meta, and Gyp/You/I would all know that. (I'd know that he was lurky towards the end anyway, but you can't access our team chat to verify so it's a moo point.)

N2 is most easily explained by a positive motion detector on either of the two and/or a dwindling mason pool, although I really should go look and see if there were any teams for which that deduction would be clearer.

N3 is either an attempt at clearing a strong town player out of the way or a PR fear kill, depending on whether the scumteam knows A50.

I don't think any of those kills were made with the intention of manipulating V/CA.

[Bingle]

I don’t find the “ur tr on me is for bad reasons” being met by “well u pointed that out which is towny” to be particularly egregious— in fact, I have clear memories of doing this (foolishly) with skitter in some of our first games together. Of course, she was right (the tr was for bad reasons) and it was pure chance that she was scum that first game (as I learned to my chagrin when she hard pocketed me in another game by calling out my tr on her as being for bad reasons when she was scum) but the broader point I’m trying to get across is that when you’re a newbie to the site I think this is a very common cognitive slip to make

Fair. The point I was making though is that I can 100% see this as being Mo who is leaning into the "I'm a newbie and don't know any better" to get away with it. It's very tinfoily, but that's exactly how I won my first 3-4 scumgames before people started recognizing that I knew more than I was letting on about how mafia worked.

[Bingle]

I mean, as I said, the (mo, gypyx) one is the only one I think is possible but it’s less about possible and more about probable — I think this game feels a lot like a double bus game. It reminds me of 2119, and there’s a reason I linked that to mo. But mostly I just... really am not seeing mo as scum rn? I don’t feel like he needs to bother engaging with me at all really, I’m not particularly scary this game and I’m an easy miselim (I think). With pooky probably wanting me dead regardless, what’s the incentive for a gypyx/mo team to not just support me dying today, then kill pooky, and then probably have a p easy final day limming T3? (But where you and NM would also be viable possibilities)

FMPOV I'm 100% willing to just say If GypTown -> MoTown

and consider Mo off the table for today, if that helps any. I can see the same being fine for you.

I'm also struggling to see a pairing for you, although I doubt anyone else would take us as a pair off the table.

[Bingle]

Also re: dann — I had no idea he was in his PR meta lol. We haven’t played together that much and I think my meta on him being Not Great should be fairly evident from my thinking he was intensely scummy from

Dann was trying to fly under the radar (which is why you were scumreading him, I think) and that's one of the strongest PR tells there is. The other reliable one is wanting to rush through the day phase and get to night as quickly as possible.

[Bingle]

But I think that until we have confirmation from this game being over and mo flipping scum the higher % play is to say “nah, that’s not what’s happening, the dude is just town and figuring shit out” especially when there are other teams that I think make sense over and above the one team that he features in

My reaction is closer to what I coached Pine into for the end of the mini theme. Ignore the possibility of GPa scum once I've narrowed down his teams to one person. If Shea flips scum, then we look hard at Norwee, but Norwee is never scum w/out Shea, so Shea has to go first.

(In this allegory, Gpa is Norwee and Shea is Gypyx.)

[Bingle]

I think this is bizarre theatre for us to do and to then be like self-referential about it


What about if T3!scum -> mo!town?

I mean, that follows from the previous logic. Mo is never limmed unless Gypyx has already flipped scum.

[Bingle]

Can you guess my problem with this

That you think Gypyx is my most likely partner?

[Bingle]

VOTE: gypx

For reel reels though VOTE: gypyx

I can get behind this.
VOTE: gypyx

Now Bingle, got any other early reads?

I never plan to be the endgame scum. Sometimes it happens, but it's never the plan.

[Bingle]

*announcer voice*

And yes, that’s dannflor entering the thread folks, ooh, it’s not off to a good start! How many yikes out of 5 is that judges?

4/5 yikes! Hoo boy, that’s a lot of yikes for dannflor’s entrance!

So your telling me you think this:

VOTE: gypx

guys gypyx and bingle are scum together

Is more yikes then this:

WTF VOTE: pooky

The quote from the last one and this one were supposed to be together, along with "What do you make of this?"

Imagine I hadn't fucked that up.

[Bingle]

1v1ing for the win?

No.

[Bingle]

You keep saying things that I just don’t really believe are true lol

It's 100% true. I massively dislike being the designated endgame scum for three reasons. Endgame scum implies I wasn't able to keep my scumteam afloat and I vastly prefer winning with a team. One of my strongest traits as scum is my ability to set up associations between me and town and make them look really shitty when I'm dead. Being the endgame scum makes my future scumgames that much harder because people remember "Bingle won that game as scum" instead of "That was a solid scumteam that Bingle was on".

I am far more proud of a game if I can setup a partner to take it all the way to the end than if I lose my team but still make it across the finish line. Basically, if I endgame a game solo as scum something went wrong somewhere down the line and I had to scramble to recover.

Look at the solo scumwin that I played with A50 that I still tease him over: Why was I the endgame scum? One of my buddies got vigged and the other legitimately scumslipped. I didn't have a choice.

[Bingle]

Let’s get down to brass tacks: who’s your preferred flip today?

I'm not sure yet. I lean Gypyx, but I'm still solving you before I'm comfortable doing so. Also I vaguely remember reading a case for Gypyx town I thought was pretty compelling back before I suddenly had spare time to devote to this. I probably wouldn't be opposed to a T3 lim either.

[Bingle]

"Bingle won that game as scum"

b-but... glory?

Fuck Glory. I'm good at mafia because I excell at being part of a team, not because I'm good individually. Notice that I spent an entire phase this game doing fuckall because I actively didn't want to be the town leader.

[Bingle]

N_M towncase:

aside from that N_M is probably town despite him wanting me

[Bingle]

also @bingle isnt it better to see who mafia kills during night 4? think about it...

the likelehood of t3 flipping scum here is high..

ELIM SCUM: we assume t3 flips scum >>> it becomes 1:5 during day 4 >>> 1:3 during day 5 >>> (NO ELIM) >>> 1:2 during day 6.

ELIM TOWN: we assume t3 flips town >>> it becomes 2:4 during day 4 >>> (NO ELIM) >>> 2:3 during day 5

NO ELIM: (NO ELIM) >>> it becomes 2:5 during day 4 >>> 2:3 during day 5

no eliming and eliming a town this day is practically the same. however the difference is that there is a possibility for t3 to roll scum and that goes for any elim we do today since we can't no elim already having doing so today or mafia would win. it also gives us better insight on the night 4 kill, questioning who would mafia kill here.

i think i rather have the mafia figure out to kill between towncore players that have been townread all this game (and this would make the kill now based on associates and question why did they make that kill) not ppl like pooky/mena/t3 who have had sum doubts bout other ppl.

@bingle

Theory cap time, then I'm going to bed.


No. The point of no limming into odds is this: There are fewer suspects to be considered. It has been shown empirically that the number of suspects to be considered is far more impactful on a game of mafia than the number of town voices available. This is the reason that games with arsonist scum tend to be far more scumsided than normal, even with the possibility of accidentally netting an extra mislim via limming primed town players. It is very rarely the case that a town voice is worth premature burnination.

The presumption that T3 was clearly the lim yesterday is utterly meaningless, because the odds T3 was the lim yesterday are objectively lower than the odds T3 is the lim today. If T3 is the scummiest player, T3 probably gets yeeted regardless of which day it is. What happened with the no lim is that the odds of an A50 lim were split between the remaining living players.

With a vast oversimplification of subjective reads, we went from 2/7 to hit scum to 2/6 to hit scum, still with a projected 0 ICs in XLO.

[Bingle]

The main reason I townread gypyx is because of the early day 1 lolpush on Drap.

Tell me more, tell me more.

[Bingle]

I found the gypyx town case I thought had merit. Johnny said him not realizing drap was not a newbie was town indicative.

[Bingle]

See to me it looked like maybe drap was acting on information he knew and we didn't, if you catch my meaning

eh, i catch it, but not agreeing there, it could also be hesitation around how to position around partner, which is a very frequent problem around partners for newbscum

Wait was drapion actually a newbie? I thought it was hectic?

oh uh

i think he played a newbie game iirc? so not possible

okay so he didn't actually, oops

Everyone gypyx is town. Rest easy.

[Bingle]

where is my hard carry mena?!?

Mena's secretly been ghostwriting my posts the whole time. Lend just didn't want you to know that the setup actually has two mason pairs.

[Bingle]

does any1 actually townread DrapScum or can we get this show on the road alrdy

That’s just mean.
NGL, I could or could not be an Alt that is a PL on their main.

This was the confirmation of alt status ITT, btw.

[Bingle]

im glad it aint a soft vote for him

VOTE: Pooky

[Bingle]

Yeah, it's weaker than I remembered. I think I remembered it more because it was one of the things that gave me hesitance on Johnny. It is worth sharing.

I also remembered that Gypyx push on drap struck me as pretty hollow D1. Like, he was pushing drap for asking people for reads because that was mason hunting, which was like... the least scummy thing he was doing at the time.

[Bingle]

I definitely want to see what gypyx has to say here more than Mo's analysis, tbh.

Mo, can you save your analysis as a draft and post it after gypyx posts?

[Bingle]

uh... i was gonna do it during the night if im still alive by then

because i actually wanted to hear from gypyx

If you type it up and hit preview post you can save it as a draft, which is what I was suggesting.

And if Gypyx flakes, we get a replacement who can speaketh new mouth sounds.

@mod: prod on Gypyx please.

[Bingle]

VOTE: The scum

[Bingle]

what are you thinking about bingle?

Mostly marathons, tbh.

[Bingle]

Mena, have you ever seen N_M give this many fucks in a scumgame? If so, lynx?

[Bingle]

so now tell me, what happened?

Well, on D1 I led the town and we ended up limming scum. And then on D2 I wanted to be able to see what other people would do without me and got very disengaged because there was no thread motion. And then on D3 we no limmed because it was optimal play. On D4 there was a lolwagon the day before limlo and the person I suspected the strongest put a vote down to allow N_M to hammer while I was in fact being active and solvey. And today is a holiday weekend where most if not all of my mafia energy is going to be elsewhere.

I'll be happy to solve the game on Tuesday, because it's XLO and I need to read again before committing to anything, but yeah, if it was deadline it would be Ydrasse vote.

[Bingle]

@Mena:

Mena, have you ever seen N_M give this many fucks in a scumgame? If so, lynx?

so now tell me, what happened?

Well, on D1 I led the town and we ended up limming scum.

is this sentence really necessary???

And then on D2 I wanted to be able to see what other people would do without me and got very disengaged because there was no thread motion.

this is true

And then on D3 we no limmed because it was optimal play.

still disagree on its optimal level. i still feel like a no lim on day 4 is way better. do you see how you used lol wagon in the sentence below? and u thought a no lim was better on d3? smh.

On D4 there was a lolwagon the day before limlo and the person I suspected the strongest put a vote down to allow N_M to hammer while I was in fact being active and solvey.

u say lolwagon but push for no lim for d3 -- when that no lim could have been used in day 4, psych will probably not have been killed and we would have been gotten a way better precentage on findign skill because we would use that night kill from mafia as an advantage for us on to scumhunt based on the kill that was made

And today is a holiday weekend where most if not all of my mafia energy is going to be elsewhere.

I'll be happy to solve the game on Tuesday, because it's XLO and I need to read again before committing to anything, but yeah, if it was deadline it would be Ydrasse vote.

excuses excuses. smh.

honestly i expected a better reaction...

yes you did explain it but i feel like town would have more need for motiviation to actually and try to solve this game.


johnny was right. you got greedy and cockey with ur day 1 scumsolve and started acting lazy thru out the game because it felt like the game was going to get easier.

but now we are at a mountanious spot where the only true scumhunting can be dervied from scum themselves and what drap says or there interactions.

honestly i lost all hope in town on this day and it seems like town isn't trying anymore or just gave up. if mena is the only one here actually trying to solve and figure shit out, i might as well townread you. if you are scum, oh well, you played a good game and escaped an elim on the previous day. i rather lose to scum!mena atp just because town isn't even acting town anymore.

This post is fucking awful, btw, mena.

Mo is blaming everyone else for getting cocky with a D1 solve when he was literally the person trying to make D1 solves and being outright told that that's a bad plan. He's trying to paint my absence from the thread as scummy, and simultaneously arguing that we're in bad shape because town was disengaged from the thread. He asked for a summation of my play on the various days, and then asked why I mentioned my play on D1. He's also trying real hard to end the game before I have the time to devote to it. Also, it's really interesting that he's pushing the angle of psych wouldn't have been killed last night when the only way we wouldn't have had the psychiatrist killed before today is if the psychiatrist wasn't able to conftown themselves on claim. Note: aborted attempt to cc the psych and demonstrated clear understanding on his part of why psych claims before XLO yesterday.

If you vote before I get the chance to try hard I'm going to beat you upside the head with the stupid stick.

[Bingle]

@Mena:

Mena, have you ever seen N_M give this many fucks in a scumgame? If so, lynx?

so now tell me, what happened?

Well, on D1 I led the town and we ended up limming scum.

is this sentence really necessary???

And then on D2 I wanted to be able to see what other people would do without me and got very disengaged because there was no thread motion.

this is true

And then on D3 we no limmed because it was optimal play.

still disagree on its optimal level. i still feel like a no lim on day 4 is way better. do you see how you used lol wagon in the sentence below? and u thought a no lim was better on d3? smh.

On D4 there was a lolwagon the day before limlo and the person I suspected the strongest put a vote down to allow N_M to hammer while I was in fact being active and solvey.

u say lolwagon but push for no lim for d3 -- when that no lim could have been used in day 4, psych will probably not have been killed and we would have been gotten a way better precentage on findign skill because we would use that night kill from mafia as an advantage for us on to scumhunt based on the kill that was made

And today is a holiday weekend where most if not all of my mafia energy is going to be elsewhere.

I'll be happy to solve the game on Tuesday, because it's XLO and I need to read again before committing to anything, but yeah, if it was deadline it would be Ydrasse vote.

excuses excuses. smh.

honestly i expected a better reaction...

yes you did explain it but i feel like town would have more need for motiviation to actually and try to solve this game.


johnny was right. you got greedy and cockey with ur day 1 scumsolve and started acting lazy thru out the game because it felt like the game was going to get easier.

but now we are at a mountanious spot where the only true scumhunting can be dervied from scum themselves and what drap says or there interactions.

honestly i lost all hope in town on this day and it seems like town isn't trying anymore or just gave up. if mena is the only one here actually trying to solve and figure shit out, i might as well townread you. if you are scum, oh well, you played a good game and escaped an elim on the previous day. i rather lose to scum!mena atp just because town isn't even acting town anymore.

This post is fucking awful and if you lim me before I have a chance to explain why I'm going to beat you upside the head with the stupid stick, Mena.

[Bingle]

Oh, hey, the forum didn't eat the previous post. Sorry, my computer is acting strangely.

[Bingle]

I mean I’ll let you say your piece but I’ll also re-iterate what I said to ydra, which is that I’ll be voting today much less based on what anyone does/says today and much more based on all the play that led us to this lylo in the first place

Okay, sure, but tell me when N_M has played this hard as scum. Because the answer afaik is never. And he's actually been pretty high effort as town recently.

[Bingle]

I mean, I also think it’s fairly obvious that I’m just town at this point anyway, but I mention in case there are doubts

Eh. You're not locktown, but you are "I've already lost if this is not town" if that makes sense.

[Bingle]

Bingle, why have you been posting much more in other games than here? I would expect you, if town, to be quite interested in seeing if you can solve the puzzle instead of being avoidant

Without breaking any site rules that you just asked me to break, I am not posting in this game because the amount of effort it will take to make the posts I need to make in this game will take more of my effort than I can devote to mafia this weekend. I'm playing in the marathons because I've outright missed the last 2-3 marathon weekends. I've been doing my modding and reviewing because that is and always will be my priority.

You're going to have to deal with snipy comments before I have time to sit down and devote effort here.

Besides, I already have a solve. I just need to reevaluate the puzzle to ensure it's the right one. (you know, examine the N_M you provided, respond to a bunch of walls about how to frame me.) Considering Y has been in many of the marathons as well, I'm hardly the only offender.

[Bingle]

Bingle and ydra were literally just posting within the last 5-10 minutes, it’s a very reasonable assumption they’re still around and liable to post imminently

I'm multitabbing, but yeah, if I were scum I'd be around to qh if necessary.

[Bingle]

Yo?

[Bingle]

Jo Nixon?

[Bingle]

I can't follow that link on this account.

[Bingle]

I mean... Y is probably just scum with Mo. So she has a specific reason not to want to confirm N_M/Mo as S/S when I'm pretty obviously biased with my solve there.

[Bingle]

Well, town probably loses now. Stupid randing scum in SH.

[Bingle]

Well, town probably loses now. Stupid randing scum in SH.

eh?

I just randed scum against you in SH, and that's gonna make you want to hero win against me despite that I'm crazy town.

I actually haven't been paying attention here. can someone give me a tldr?

[Bingle]

I bear u no illwill over that lol and I'm a lil surprised you think I would

Not ill will, paranoia.

If you were the kind of person to grudge match over mafia I wouldn't respect you as much as I do.

[Bingle]

ydrasse is clear and so we're now operating as masons

Oh, shit. Really?

that's lucky, I was pretty much sold on voting her.

[Bingle]

stop trying to pocket me bingle goddamnit

No. I like to pocket people.

[Bingle]

So like, mechanically FMPOV there's two scum in Mo/N_M/Mena, right?

[Bingle]

VOTE: Mo

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

[Bingle]

Mena come prove that you're not scum with N_M.

[Bingle]

weird, those posts didn't show up for me when I refreshed page. Is the site glitching for anyone else?

[Bingle]

I feel like I'm pretty obviously not S/S with mo, tbh.

[Bingle]

like

if there's any scum team I can dream up who would be this brazen

it's probably you two

A50/FL

[Bingle]

this quote literally contradicts itself -- and doesn't bingle implicitly scumslip here... why would town have that mindset of a person that you scumread not having an influence then continues to act like it won't have any info regardless of the flip -- knowing that drap will probably flip scum with TMI

"I don't know how I change my thoughts given additional evidence" and "This course of action will probably give additional evidence" are in fact complimentary thought processes, but nice attempt a misrep.

[Bingle]

What brings you to the site, Mr. Pokeymans sir?

What kind of Pokémon are you? Are you loyal through and through? Share with me your secrets deep inside.

He is, explicitly. He signed up in the newbie queue as a newbie.

So I have a spicy tinfoil theory. I think that professor Drapion is not actually a drapion at all and is a robot attempting to pretend to be a drapion for the purposes of making achieving a professorship more impressive. I know, I know, this is all very farfetch’d, but I do have evidence.

Firstly, drapion has been established to evolve at level 40, which as everyone knows is a very rare occurrence in a game of mafia. Usually you have to have several weirdos running conflicting gambits to even get close to level 10 play. I find it very unlikely that someone with no completed games has managed to pull of a high enough level maneuver to evolve.

He COULD be a naturally occurring drapion, as drapion have been encountered in many places. This is exceedingly unlikely on the basis that there have been 0 wild drapion sightings in Central Park. Indeed, there aren’t even any confirmed drapion sightings in the greater New York area. Occams suggests that such a large Pokémon would have been spotted at least once during its migration.

Furthermore, when I began quoting music from Pokémon soundtracks, drapion remained ignorant of the context and didn’t respond to his supposed people’s music. I find this very suspicious.

Thirdly, when preparing to battle Mena, drapion mentioned that his claw was ready. Claw: singular, not plural. As everyone knows, drapion as a species has two claws, four spiked limbs and a scorpion like tail. This lack of biological familiarity with his supposed species is highly suspicious.

Finally, it is common knowledge that very few Pokémon have learned to speak proper English. Among those who have, a predilection towards using their own species name (such as the famous Team Rocket Meowth) is still common. drapion has shown a distinct lack of these behaviors. Clearly, the preponderance of evidence shows: Drapion must be a robot.

Cyborg actually, had a translator transplant.
(Messed up quote before)

Sounds like something a robot would say, tbh.

Now Bingle, got any other early reads?

Mena slightly scummy, pooky low priority, your slot has tells but I need to wait for the psych evaluation result to determine if they’re scummy or towny. Dann strongest townread. I’d be voting lukewarm if I weren’t voting gypyx, but I think the gypyx wagon is more likely to be spicy atm.

You?

Town:

Dannflor
T3
PookyTheMagicalBear
Almost50

Needs more content before being arbitrarily shuffled into a pile:

GrandpaMo
ManWithNoName
Pine

Scum:

Lukewarm
VFP
Menalque
ProfessorDrapion
Gypyx

Yes. All nine of those are genuine reads with genuine reasoning. I'm not going to bother explaining most of them at the moment, and they're loosely ordered based on how accurate my gut says they might be.

Explain your VFP read.

Entrance was aggressively meh, seems to be moderately around and yet is only addressing topics that don't really have substance.

I officially endorse A50 poking this with a stick.

Good Post!

Nah.

Basically every bit of analysis is off point.

this whole interaction + peep the subtle aggression against me in aiding drap scum here.

I like how you quote a post where I say drap is a newbie, ignore the next post where drap proves that wrong, include a bunch of NAI fluff, and then say it's weird that my read changed. That's not twisting a narrative at all.

[Bingle]

wtf is this shit. there is so many fallacies with this.

Ignoring of course, that this is itself the fallacy fallacy, what fallacies would those be?

[Bingle]

We aren't even talking about mafia slow rolling, or even all the other circumstances, on how it could be the other pairs -- This is why I was frustrated earlier on how much I HATE this last lazy tactic of town, it would happen in my older platforms and town would throw just because someone didn't hammer, and they would rely on the hammer meta so much and guess what it would become wrong and town would just throw the game. And it's happening now. The only person who I actually trusted in actually solving this game, is using that specific tactic and it's such a shame. I wish pooky was still alive.

Not hammering in a game winning situation is literally gamethrowing and actively against site rules. It is confirmed that there is one scum at least in N_M/You. FMPOV It is confirmed that you are scum. From a theoretical town you's POV it is literally confirmed that the scumteam is N_M/me, and in fact it was confirmed to you that N_M was scum far earlier than that I was scum, but you were still focusing on trying to get me eliminated.

[Bingle]

NKA, blow by blow:

Literally every kill is explained completely by the following phrase: "PR hunting". That doesn't clear me unless you want to accept that I can read A50 well enough to tell when he's VT gambiting or PR reverse gambiting, but it also doesn't give any evidence that I am scum.

If you want to examine it from a not "PR hunting" angle: All of those kills were objectively bad kills for me to make. Every kill this game was someone who townread me or whom I have the proven ability to manipulate. Notably still alive: Mena, who is particularly paranoid wrt me and I have never been consistent in fooling and Y who I only have recent experience with and thus am less likely to be able to manipulate. Similarly, asking the question of why is Bingle still alive: look at my recent reads: Y/Mena was my solve coming into today. I was 100% wrong in that. I had only slight paranoia with GPa Mo and was not at all vocal about my doubt there. I was hard townreading N_M based on meta. The better question is why would I ever get nightkilled this game? Especially with Pooky advocating a policy lim of me should I survive this long, and me hypoclaiming a useless psychiatrist result?

[Bingle]

Leaning back towards Mo and Ydra now, I understand why Menalque hasn't hammered yet but not Ydra. Feels like scum active lurking, inducing apathy and just riding out a favourable game state without rocking the boat

Hm. I suppose mo/Ydra is technically possible still. Mena seems to have missed that pair.

Don't know if mo flails this hard if ydra is his partner though. Seems too panicked.

[Bingle]

The last point I kinda want to bring up about mo was his treatment of my N_M read. He's very frustrated that I was townreading N_M based on meta and simultaneously scumreading me for it.

The cognitive dissonance of course being that hypothetical scum me wouldn't be presenting a real read on N_M, so GPa who is nominally scumreading me shouldn't be frustrated with me for a badtownread, because he thinks I'm acting in bad faith anyway.

Of course that also kind implies N_M town because Mo wouldn't get as frustrated about me townreading his buddy, but it is a thought I had.

[Bingle]

Yeah, I'm in no particular rush to end day.

Anything you'd like me to address?

There've been a bunch of recent Mo walls I could talk about, but frankly I don't see pointing out misreps and narrative spinning there to be a valuable use of my time unless someone needs me to.

[Bingle]

I said I would engage with the thread ON Tuesday, not by tuesday, but honestly casing you when you're the defacto lim is a waste of my time and reevaluating when you're confscum FMPOV is just as ridiculous.

The idea that I've been offended at all this game is laughable. The statement that I'm the one pushing for a faster EoD while quoting me saying I didn't mind waiting after literally voting me in XLO while I was borderline V/LA and thus not around to defend myself is even more so.

[Bingle]

fuck this. u havent done shit and im not gonna lose to u as scum when i have called u out multiple times and still found urself to make excuses / deflections.

we lose oh well -- ur anti town behavior caused this game to be thrown.

VOTE: Bingle

VOTE: Mo

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Look, man. I know numbers are hard, but 2191 is actually more than 2109.

And yes, it is currently 3:30 AM (fuck insomnia) but Tuesday is still tomorrow in my eyes.

[Bingle]

VOTE: The scum

This, btw is the only other vote I cast today.