Open 186; Jungle Republic (Game Over)

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Vote:Dank

for his love of toucans

[Lynx The Antithesis]

You know what I've played with Dank, Paradox, Saberwolf, Lowell, Budja, and curiouskarmadog before. I've grown so close to you all and couldn't fathom killing any of you. And those that I haven't played with seem rather sweet so...

Vote:No Lynch

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Unvote,Vote:Saberwolf

You certainly are threatening to self-hammer if you reference a game where you did it already in 18 posts after a wagon starts on you. If you actually consider doing it you're either scum or a huge liability for the town.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Unvote,Vote:Saberwolf

You certainly are threatening to self-hammer if you reference a game where you did it already in 18 posts after a wagon starts on you. If you actually consider doing it you're either scum or a huge liability for the town.

LOL, so you put me one vote closer to see if I'll do it? That's anti-town and scummy of you right there.

I already posted and quoted it, I'm not gonna gambit this game, so you guys are wasting your time. Due to a certain bet I made, I'd love it if you guys lynched me day 1, however I have every intention of playing this game, so it's your choice.

Why are you acting like you're going to be lynched already? It's only page two. My vote is not intended to support a policy lynch of any kind.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Citing two games where your play greatly hindered a town win should certainly not make you immune from being pressured. Trying to paint yourself as a highly volatile player does not make you impossible to read.

you can thank me for getting us out of RVS btw, as was my goa

The way you're saying this seems to insinuate that you deserve townie points for getting us out of the RVS stage. In what post is it obvious that you are trying to do this?

Then whats the vote for?

To elicit a response from him. We haven't even heard anything substantial from a majority of players. Why would a lynch now in any way be beneficial to the town?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

My vote is more for him tossing his self hammer around like it means we shouldn't wagon him because he could possibly play in a similar manner. If we all just played leniently with him because he has exhibited behavior like that before, then we wouldn't get a proper read on him.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

This is ridiculous. Saber is flaunting his potential to self-hammer in front of us. I'm not going to let that possibility ease anything on him. His threat should not intimidate anyone into letting his actions slide by. The guy claims he's not threatening to do it while referencing games where he has poorly hammered. Then, he says in thread that he's pming mith about doing it. It's not townie behavior and does not go along with your win condition. Just because you have done it as town does before does not mean you should be considered town everytime you pull this card out.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lynx is also suspicious for being on my BW despite saying his vote was not a policy vote FoS: Lynx

Why does the vote have to be a policy vote to be on your wagon? It has nothing to do with previous games or your particular style. Just your play this game so far.

vote:bigmc109
I endorse this wagon.

What exactly do you agree with about the wagon?

bigmc- This is how saber plays. It's completely null in my opinion. I am not sure why you keep pressing the issue though.

This is the exactly the attitude that simply excuses his play as "just saber." This is precisely what I am afraid of with Saber.

CKD- I think the continuing attempt to lynch saber on fairly weak ground is scummier behavior than the potential lie about the missed vote.

Then why aren't you voting one of the scummy wagoners on Saber?

What does everyone think about lynching lurkers? I'm usually against it D1 since if that person is town, there are limited interactions to go off of, but in this setup we have 5/12 people being anti-town. It is easier for us to hit scum aiming for lurkers by basic probability. I would be more willing to lynch a scummy lurker in this setup than others.

I'm very against this unless we have absolutely no other option such as being under a deadline. And who do you consider being anti-town?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lynx: If your vote wasn't a policy vote, what would it fall under then?

It's simple really threatening to hammer seemed like an excuse to any solid pressure. If everyone's just afraid to vote you because you might possibly kill yourself than that makes you dangerous. People will continue to just excuse your behavior as just being Saber By bringing up the times when you have played in that manner, it only solidfies my point. But this point is being hammered into the ground and I'd rather not foucs all my attention on you at the moment. Please, Saber, just play to meet your win condition and if you are town don't do anything too drastic to jeopardize the town's chances.

Thanks Budja I don't know why I didn't put that together along with your vote.

Unvote, Vote:Scott Brosius

for calling out the Saber wagon as anti-town, but failing to actually vote or specify even one of the wagoners for their "scummy behavior".

[Lynx The Antithesis]

excuse to avoid*

[Lynx The Antithesis]

think the continuing attempt to lynch saber on fairly weak ground is scummier behavior than the potential lie about the missed vote

Here's where you label the wagon scummy.

And you're right about the anti-town. I thought you were referring to the players on the saberwolf wagon as anti-town, not the actual number of scum. My fault on that one.

If you were specifically referring to one player on the wagon my points are ill founded and I will unvote after you tell me exactly who you were speaking of in that instance.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Really? Because I think you and CKD are trying a little too hard to make my mistake look like a scum move. Fishy? Maybe. Scummy on its own? Hell no.

FoS: CKD & Dank

CKD's pushing it far more than Dank I think. Dank merely FOSed you over it while CKD specifically wanted every player to address the vote.

Do you still find Saber the scummiest? Your vote seems more intended for pressure than to actually lynch him. Do you want him lynched?

I'm not completely sold on the bigmc. Is there more besides the not noticing the vote?

Paradox: I have never lost a game as scum (6-0). Just remember that if you lynch me and I flip town.

What kind of defense is this? Why in this in anyway have any bearing on this game?

Unvote

Scott I would like to know who holds your primary suspicion as well.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

How in any way does that put us down?

Do you intentionlly attempt to provoke players as both town and scum equally?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

dammit, I already promised budja I'd play legit

nvm.


anyways, you want more info, talk to hewitt, he just figured it out.

Otherwise, I'm going back to scumhunting, and ignoring the next three posts that address me

What is this with hewitt?

You're bouncing back and forth with this gambit card. You're the town's biggest concern right now in my opinion.

Vote:Saberwolf

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Saber's defense concerning his flipping town doesn't excuse his behavior. Just because you've flipped town in other games does not even remotely influence the outcome of this game. They're not related and really have no place in this.

Saber, why are you voting BigMc

CKD, why would you claim Saber is town? What has he done so far this game that is even close to a townie play? Being Blatantly scummy does not clear him as town. Too scummy to be scum is illogical especially for Saber. Is there more to the BigMC case besides the missing of the vote?

I'd like to hear more from Budja, Lowell.

I feel like Budja and Lowell are riding the BigMC wagon while CKD does all the pushing.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

THAT bet deal is making this game confusing (and annoying to read), and I'm patiently waiting for saber to be lynched.

Why would you just be waiting? This shows me a lack of hunting.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Scum: Bigmc and Lynx

It's easy to see, game over.

Make sure one of these two is lynched at some point when I'm gone.

And this is because I'm asking someone to show me what else he has done scummy?

You truly are brilliant saber. What points did you actually present against BigMC when you voted him? I believe you just hopped on the largest wagon in comparison with your own, scum.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Woah sorry for triple post there. My computer's being annoying.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Also he hasn't been annoying or distracting lately either. Yes if he kept up his original attitude, style, whatever you want to call it,

I would be fine lynching him to remove the distraction

. But he stopped doing that and made some cases, yet you are still pursuing him for playstyle? You are pushing a weak case and a case that may have been valid early in the day but not anymore

Your case right here seems equally weak. You call out memorable raindrops for pursuing Saber based off playstyle, but you say you'd be fine with removing him for being a distraction. Isn't that essentially the same thing?

I'm sick of people excusing Saber's behavior and calling him town with nothing to show for it. Explain to me how you see him as town without claiming that no scum would play in this manner. That's certainly not true and should not give him a free pass.

And I'll ask again what else is there on BigMC of substance? Not one of you on the wagon has addressed this and I think the people on the BigMC wagon are just riding their votes. I'd like Budja, Lowell, and Saberwolf to provide me with actual points against BigMC or I'll continue to think in this manner. First one to step up and do it will look better in my eyes.

CKD, please refrain from answering this as you have been the biggest advocate of his lynch. I'd like to see what the rest of them have to say without your input.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I find it funny that Saber labels me as "protective" of BigMC for asking them to show me their case on him. Instead, Saber fails yet again to provide such points against BigMc. Then, he goes on to make one of the more opportunistic votes in this game so far. I think Saber realized that the BigMc wagon was losing steam so he tried to find an easier candidate in MR.

Budja as well failed his view on the BigMc case. It's fairly strange that neither of them answered and instead both switched to MR. Either Budja's not reading my posts or he intentionally skipped over it.

The same does not go for Saber because in my response to his labeling me as scum I asked him to provide the case as well. He never did so and it's clear his vote was very poor. He was merely hopping on the second largest wagon that could possibly take attention away from himself.

Can we please just lynch Saber already?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

So me, MR, and BigMC all are tied together because I asked you to provide a case against them? You've been blowing that out of proportion ever since it came up. I asked one of you to display the points against BigMc and none of you would step up ad do it. This is despite my consistent request for them. To say that I blatantly refused the points against either of these two is complete nonsense. All I asked was for you to lay them out. Which apparently took very much for you to do.

To say that we're voting you because we have to be right eventually about your gambits eventually is complete bull. I've only played one game with you where you played very differently in it while I was alive.

I'll ask again can we just lynch him already?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

FOS hewitt

. Aren't

you

voting saber? If so, isn't 239 a strange thing to say?

Lowell, could you please state the reason you are currently voting BigMc. I've asked you, Saber, and Budja specifically. But you're the only one of the three still voting him.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I personally think newb townies would give up much more than newb scum. But a request for a replacement should have no impact. Voting someone for replacing out is foolish really. Big's vote seems nearly as opportunistic as saber's.

I'm starting to think:

Dank, MR, ??? as mafia

MC and Lynx as werewolves.

I don't think you can even try to be any more useless. Do you not understand that predicting multiple scum teams on Day 1 is extremely worthless?


Oh and V/LA until Wednesday. I'll might be able to get a post in here and there, but I have alot of finals these next two days.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lynx needs to explain why he only commented on Scott in post 104, but not other players for doing so.

Because I thought Scott called all five players on the saberwolf wagon anti-town without mentioning one specifically or voting any of us. It was cleared up that he was referring to the actual amount of scum in the game, not the wagon.

I also would like to hear why you pointed out that CKD is worse than Dank regarding the BMC case towards BMC (see post 127)

Not worse just a stronger advocate against BigMc. CKD asked every player in the game to comment on the BigMC vote. It just seemed odd for BigMC to string the two of them together in a FOS when Dank wasn't even voting him.

dank and saber both look town to me, despite their lover's spats.

Why?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I think saber's recent behavior deserves a lynch.

I'll give dan a chance to chime in, however.

Thats strange considering that your very last post you said him and Dank both look town which you never bothered to explain either. Now you're saying his recent behavior is deserving of a lynch? Exlain this to me please.

FOS:Lowell

[Lynx The Antithesis]

HUH?

saberwolf has been banned is currently being replaced.

not sure why everyone is so hot to lynch someone who is getting replaced and is banned for the same antics that he pulled here.

oh wait...yes I do, scum want an easy lynch.

So regardless of how scummy he plays we just have to let it go by?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

what did he do that was scummy?

Let's see first Saber claims he will use no gambits to play this game, and he's constantly try to mix up his play so he has no meta. Then, as soon as the wagon grows on him he brings up the fact that he has self-hammered in 18 posts. Why would he do this? The only viable reason I would think for him to reference his behavior in the past is to evade having a wagon build up on him in this game. He's relying on people excusing his behavior like yourself as a means to not have his actions as equally judged as other players. This completely contrasts with his sentiments that he doesn't want the read on him to be the same.

All his votes were poorly or opportunistically placed. The BigMc vote was simply to match the wagon on himself. He didn't include any other reasoning besides his previous vote was going no where. Any time I questioned him about why he was voting BigMc , he would twist it to mean that I was defending BigMc when I merely desired to see what or what not he agreed with on the case. But he kept stalling and stalling to answer even while I persistently posed the question. His switch to MR was as opportunistic as hell even stated by himself. When the BigMC wagon was losing steam, he pounced on the easiest candidate to shift focus away from himself.

then answer, why do you think he was banned.

For ruining other games with horrid play? I don't know

if he pulled that shit across the board in all games regardless of alignment, how can you just lynch him without hearing what his replacement has to say?

explain to me how THAT line of thinking is pro-town

I really don't care in the slightest what he's done in other games. I'm reading him on this game alone. I never said we should lynch him without hearing from the replacement. Of course we should hear what he has to say, but it doesn't grant amnesty to Saber's play.

also, your thought about Bigmac? He defends his earlier actions with "it will provide a lot of information" but when the mod states that someone is being replaced and that replacement will provide fresh eyes on the game and will hopefully provide stances and opinions that will provide EVEN MORE information he votes that player before the replacement can get here. He defends THAT vote with "well, I guess Ill switch my vote back because...."

explain to me how THAT is pro-town and why you are letting THAT slide.

why is everyone is such a hurry to end this day

BigMc hasn't done anything pro-town that I've seen so far this game by any means. His vote on MR is pretty poor and seems like a stretch by far. He as well probably one of the scummier voters on the Saber wagon as well. You're correct in that his switch back to Saber just as we get a fresh replacement is also pretty scummy. Considering that we might as well hear what he has to say first. But overall I still see Saber as the most scummy over BigMc.

Who else do you find scummy as you've only been on BigMc today?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

@ckd- saber has been an absolute disaster since the few pages when he was actually helpful. I'll hear out the replacement, but in general I'm not a huge fan of abandoning good wagons just to be nice to replacement.

Wait, wait what?! You just said you had a town read on him. Did that just fly out the window?

Paradox, if you are not positive about Flava Flave why stay on the wagon? He's at L-1 one so a quick hammer will let the lynch go through. You seem to want the lynch to go through while appearing to second guess it.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Ok so I just remembered with the vote count that deadline's tomorrow. I still prefer saber's replacement flava flave to be lynched, but it would be nice to hear from him and few more people before this should go through. I'd especially like to hear from Lowell before this day ends.

Mod

, with the replacement pending and a few other replacement/players needing to catch up, could we get an extension on the deadline?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

V/LA

from the 24th until the 1st. Hopefully I'll have internet access at my grandma's house, but if not I will stranded without internet for this time period. I really hope to be back for the extended deadline, if not my vote's where it should be right now.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

With the deadline in two days I think it's fairly reasonable to say that the lynch today will come down to either Flava Flave and BigMc. Though I'd like to look further into Lowell, I think Flave is more pressing to deal with today. Any other lynch will be hasty and rushed and will yield much less links to other players. A BigMc or a Flave lynch will reap the most information and these two have the most points against them.

I'd like for every player who is not voting either of these two, to specify whether they are opposed or supportive of the lynching of both of these candidates. If you are voting either of these two, then please make evident if you are for or against the lynch of the other one. Anyone who doesn't comply with this will look suspect in my eyes for not making known where they stand on the two leading lynches for the day.

I prefer Flav's lynch, but I don't really oppose the killing of BigMC. I haven't seen any town tells from him and his votes have seemed rather forced all day.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Two questions. What is the case on me? What info would you take from a lynch on Bigmc or myself that wouldn't apply on a lynch of anyone else?

Post 302 when I answered CKD outlines my reasons for my vote. The answer to your second question is simple really. BigMc and Saber/you have had the most interactions and connections with players in this game. By being the largest bandwagons you have drawn the most votes. Thus, you can clearily see more links between you two and other players than any other player with the rest of the town. Who do you propose would match you two today that would elicit an equal amount of information from their flip?

Saber's actions have nothing to do with his alignment. He was trying to get lynched because of his stupid bet.

Don't excuse his behavior with outside related material.

I had town reads on Hewitt and CKD at that point. Still do. So what?

So according to your chart earlier, you have a town read on Budja, Scott, and Lowell as they were all higher than Hewitt on your list. Three and a half lurkers and CKD are town to you? Why is this? Especially explain Lowell to me who has clearly jumped back and forth on you for pages now.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lynx wrote:
Post 302 when I answered CKD outlines my reasons for my vote.


So it's 100% based on Saber's actions. Awesome.

Well it shouldn't be a suprise considering Saber was playing your role for a majority of the game.

Based on your reasoning, any player lynched in any game of mafia would provide an equal amount of information.

Based on what I've seen in this game (a connection between BigMC and Dank, but I'm waiting for a flip before I push that just to be sure), a BigMC lynch provides the most info.

No certainly not. For instance, a lynch on like scott who has lurked as of late and had a minimal amount of posting would provide us with the bare minimum. Not every player has commented on Scott so we wouldn't be able to read as many ties between him and the town obviously.

No, there's no excuse for trying to be lynched in every game you play. Still, it's a null tell

This is a stretch. You know for a fact that he's tried to be lynched in every game of his?

Lowell, I feel has explained himself. He saw what he interpreted as scummy actions, so he voted. Then he saw Saber actually being helpful (which he did just before he was replaced) and changed his mind. There is nothing scummy about logically changing your mind.

Actually, Lowell explains his thought process again in his last post.

But the problem is that Saber made all of three posts to create this change. Most of which were very minimal and not enough to influence such a major change from a town read to completely deserving of a lynch. Let's see:

Post 267

dank and saber both look town to me, despite their lover's spats.

Post 268

I think CKD and Lowell should join me on this BW, then we're tied 6-6, and we can have an ultimate BW showdown

Post 271

so what did I sow?

Post 275

I can't quit, or I lose my bet. You already know that hewitt.

Post 296

I think saber's recent behavior deserves a lynch.

I'll give dan a chance to chime in, however.

Flave, do you not find it odd that those three small posts caused a complete 180 on Saber? Or do you believe those three posts by Saber are scummy enough to warrant such an abrupt shift?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lowell, answer my question in post 360 that is directed towards everyone, please.

What in those three posts by Saber made you completely alter your stance on his alignment?

And are you reading through the game or just skimming? You've missed many questions that I and other players have posed to you throughout these last several pages.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

The difference is time, Flave. We've discussed you and BigMC at length for pages now. Deadline's in one day. For a wagon to build up on someone this quickly we wouldn't have the same quantity of information. Sure every lynch provides information, just some more than others. People would rationalize their votes as necessary in order to meet deadline. This is why I dislike letting this go down to the wire like this. You have only presented BigMc as a substitute for yourself which is what exactly I have done. In my mind, all you can do now is prove to us that he is the better lynch than yourself.

As for the Saberwolf, I've only played two games with him. One was his first game and he played nothing like he does now. And this one where I've seen nothing, but scummy play. Now you may claim that he was deliberately trying to be lynched...I didn't see that. All I saw was him toss around empty threats of hammering himself which I beilieve were in order to avoid any real buildup on himself. I've stressed this multiple times already. You seem reasonable and it's a shame you didn't start in this role over Saber. His play today is just completely weighing down your spot and it'd be nice to let you have a fresh start as a replacement, but I just can't see that happening here.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I agree that those are pretty incriminating points if they are true on BigMc.

Jazz, could you highlight a particular post in that game where he uses the replacing out idea to pursue someone as scummy?

Flave, I think we only need a majority for a deadline lynch. I will vote accordingly though in order to avoid a No Lynch, but I may not have internet after noon tomorrow.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I think you're right, Flave. With this amount of indecision and inactivity, we're definitely headed for a no lynch then at this rate.

Makes sense, Jazzmyn. I'll give BigMc until noon tomorrow to see how he responds to this large level of evidence against him before I switch. If he fails to post or his defense is weak I will be voting him tomorrow.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Love post 368. Glad someone did the research I was too lazy to do, and that it confirms bigmc's unfrozen caveman lawyer is a bit of an act.

In other news, Flave is buddying up to me like no one's business. In 362 he notes offhand how I explained myself adequately in response to something or another, then later corrects himself in 366 and claims not to want to speak for me. Um, thanks? I'll take it as flattery for now that he wants me to be happy (also since we need to lynch bigmc today), but his seeking to appease his prior enemies (or his prior persona's-enemies) is a little obvious.

Hi Lowell nice to meet you I'm Lynx. Care to ever answer anything I ever ask you?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

And you know what.

Unvote, Vote:BigMc

I'm going to leave no chance for a no lynch with this deadline and go with a more guilty until proven innocent approach.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Paradox's vote was the hammer.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

vote: Lowell

, to keep up pressure from D1. You've floated along without answering any of the criticisms against you, or really explaining much of what you're doing; that certainly warrants a vote.

Reread coming a bit later.

Whatever. I was on the bigmc wagon way before it was cool. I own this game. Without me this town is nowhere.

You're ridiculous. You are blatantly dodging questions posed at you numerous times and using the lynch of scum in a

multiple

scum faction game to defend not answering anything regarding your actions or flip flopping.

Vote:Lowell

I have to go so I'm making this post in haste, but it's obvious that Lowell, CKD, Flave, and Jazzym are not partners with Bigmc. Bussing on that level would not make sense on day 1 with other options available. Of course this doesn't discount the possibilities of being mafia. But it at least gives them credit in that regard. Dank and Paradox are on the fence for me as they were the last two under the crunch of the deadline. I'd say that Dank though is more fitting of his being his partner. However, those off the wagon shouldn't be forgotten either as we had quite a few inactive players.

Haven't really read the exchange between dank and flave due to lack of time. Will get to it tomorrow.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

2) @lynx- You keep referencing these "questions" you've asked. I read your posts in iso, and other than references to my position on saber (which I explained as best I could) I don't see what your problem is. Your exasperation is unwarranted.

I wanted to know specifically what in saber's three posts after your town read influenced such a swing to deserving of a lynch.

I also wanted to know whether you opposed or was for the saber lynch. It doesn't matter now though considering the bigmc lynch went through and most of the town didn't answer this anyway.

I don't see how the fake seer claim is necessarily a bad idea though. If we all create a result, I don't see how that gives the wolves any advantage as they would have to look through multiple results with no easy pick which one is the real one. It does provide very little at this time though.

It is the correct strategy to go after the wolves first. Lowell is clearly not the other one so

Unvote

Lowell wagon is: Dank, Lynx, Jazz
BigMC lynch was: curiouskarmadog, Lowell, Flava Flave, Jazzmyn, Lynx The Antithesis,dank, Paradoxombie
Saber wagon as soon as I came in :Paradoxombie, dank, Lynx The Antithesis, hewitt, Budja, bigmc109

Dank and Lynx are common names here. Both were relatively late on BigMC. Both were on Saber, who I know was town, and from an outside point of view, is an unlikely wolf (though this information wasn't availible at the time of the wagon). Now, both have jumped on Lowell, who is unlikely to be a wolf.

If I'm wrong about Dank being the last wolf, Lynx makes sense as well. Let's also not rule out one of the two being mafia.

You're absence of Paradox along with Dank and myself is noted. Paradox was one of the major advocates of your lynch and switched to the BigMc the very latest. Possible partners.

As for the wolves situation it's comes down to the two new replacements, Hewitt, Dank, and Paradox. I'll have to hear from the replacements first and Reread from the other three.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lynx, why is Jazz obv not Big’s partner?

She doesn't look like a partner of BigMc because Flave and Big we're the leading candidates for a lynch. With Flave ahead in votes, many inactive players, and a deadline closing in, it would make no sense to completely swing the lynch towards your partner. This setup leaves little room for bussing and out of all the votes on BigMc she comes second to you for least likely wolves.

I like Dank's points against Lowell.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Not sure yet....for a wolf, dank or Lynx maybe, see Day 1...seems obvious as to why...there stances and votes (timing)

What seems so obvious? And I find it odd that you as well have failed to include Paradox along with us? Why is he excluded from this suspicion? What exactly is this suspicion?

Still not sure about how I feel about dank. He's explained some of the case on him, but the blatent buddying with lynx still bothers me

Where do you see him buddying to me? I haven't really seen him mention me that much.

I'm beginning to lean more towards a Paradox as wolf than Dank. This may be due to Dank's defense over these latest posts though and Paradox's simple follow up to Flave's case.

I still do think it is very possible that a wolf was not part of the wagon. Especially Hewitt if it is true that he was posting on the site while the deadline was so close.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

[quote="FlavaFlave]Guys, I need a little help getting interested in this game again. Can someone ask me some questions or something?[/quote]

I know how you feel. This game is losing the steam quickly.

Do you feel your suspicion of me stems from my interactions with BigMc or Saber?

Do you feel Dank responded to your case sufficiently? If not why have you stopped pressing him?

You said we're not lynching CKD, Lowell, or Jazzym. Are these the only people you have cleared as not wolves? Who else do you consider unlikely?

Do you find it odd that the large suspicion on you has died abruptly? Why do you think this is?

These little homework questions should give you something to think about, Flave.

@lynx- it was pointed out awhile back how you two tended to be on the same wagons. That's what I'm referring to

.

Alright, makes sense. I was just checking because you mentioned it a few times.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

With BigMC, um, the initial suspicion, no. I can see you as a BigMC partner, so maybe that strengthens the case a bit. Interactions with Saber, maybe. The wagon on him was pretty clearly mostly out of policy. You never brought up reasons why he was scummy, but insisted your vote was on a player who you thought was scum. Any time you posted anything about Saber, it looked like policy reasoning. But you never said you were voting him out of policy, so it doesn't look very consistent to me.

This is the only reply I really have a problem with. Frankly, I feel I was one of the few people to spell out exactly why I was on the Saber wagon in post 302 which I have pointed out to you before. My vote was not influenced by a desire to simply remove Saber from the game because of his reputation. It was all driven by his play this game. Mainly his threat to hammer which I felt was an attempt to refrain players from voting him out of fear of him recklessly killing himself. As well as his votes on MR and BigMc. Coincidentally, these two players have died since then. I still insist that it wasn't a policy vote.

I've said this all before so I'm sure it will do little to impact your read on me. I just don't like my vote on him labeled as a policy vote because I strongly believe it was not.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Right now I think the best approach is more pressure on dank, but if people won't back this suspicion, then I'll have to find somewhere else to make my vote useful

I really don't like the way you've followed Flave's case Day 2 on Dank .You haven't been very clear on what components you agree with or what you disagree with. I also don't like how you want to swing your vote towards what is more popular at the moment. You should follow up on what you find suspicon, not what everyone else believes. You're playing very passively, Paradox. Something which is not characteristic of your usual style of play that I've experienced.

Out of Percy, HavingFitz, Brocktree, Dank, and Paradox, I find Paradox to be the most likely wolf candidate. His vote on BigMc was rather lackluster and I find you a more probable partner than Dank.

Vote:Paradox

Paradox, who else besides Dank do you find to be a possible wolf?

I still need to see more from the three replacements before I'm more certain on the last wolf. It's just more difficult to get a read from them due to their more limited posts involving BigMc.[/hr]

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Still here, been busy a bit lately.

@lynx- Seems like there might be good reasons to vote para, but that is not it. In my mind, a lackluster late vote on a werewolf is still better than no vote at all. I really don't see bussing as that likely a D1 option for a scum team of two players. That said, I still think it's possible dank wass bussing and specifically using the relative safety of having been on the wagon to cruise through the day. At least, OF THE PLAYERS ON THE BIGMC wagon, he's the one that most screams opportunist.

So you think it's more likely that the wolves were off the wagon? But if wolf was on the wagon, then it's probably Dank?

I just think Paradox is suspicious due to his switch to Lowell. He seemed unsure of the Saber wagon after wanting him gone for the entire game before that. Despite not being positive on Saber any longer, he stays on the L-1 Saber wagon. This way he could bring up his hesitance the next day after Saber was lynched. I mention this and he switches to Lowell. I found this quick transition odd after a long desire to remove Saber. Furthermore, it was relatively late in the day and it seemed like an odd tactic to try to create a swing to Lowell. I think it was more an attempt to distance himself from the inevitable wagon of Saber.

The only two times he mentions BigMc is about the replacement vote and his hammer. Now both times he said he didn't find BigMc too scummy. This uncertainty is somewhat more in his favor though as a townie wouldn't be positive.

As for Dank he does FOS Big several times. However, none of these really lead to vote. I'm not sure if he was more focused on Saber or he was just attempting to distance. They seemed sincere to me at first glance.

Need more from replacements still.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

We're all handling this activity very poorly. It seems like all of the town has lost interest. We do have a deadline in 5 days and we have made extremely little progress today.

Any ideas to boost discussion? Maybe a top 3 suspect list or something at least to generate some interest?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

1. Paradox
2. Lowell
3. Flave/Dank

Flave, if Dank's replaced do you think there is enough on him to still lynch the replacement?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

CKD wrote:
Not sure yet....for a wolf, dank or Lynx maybe, see Day 1...seems obvious as to why...there stances and votes (timing)


What seems so obvious? And I find it odd that you as well have failed to include Paradox along with us? Why is he excluded from this suspicion? What exactly is this suspicion?

Can you answer this question, CKD.

I find it strange that it was regarding the exclusion of Paradox, and now you're voting for him before you answered. Somewhat suspicious.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Hey I'm really sorry for not posting, I've just been plagued by a lack of interest and outside unrelated obstacles that have seriously hindered my play Day 2.

Right now it's going to be hard to get in a lynch. I doubt we can rely on Lowell to hammer Paradox. If anything we could switch to Brocktree, but I don't think it would really be beneficial to the town to all switch to him last minute just to get in a lynch.

I think we just either have to go with a Paradox lynch or a no lynch.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Hey I'm really sorry for not posting, I've just been plagued by a lack of interest and outside unrelated obstacles that have seriously hindered my play Day 2.

Right now it's going to be hard to get in a lynch. I doubt we can rely on Lowell to hammer Paradox. If anything we could switch to Brocktree, but I don't think it would really be beneficial to the town to all switch to him last minute just to get in a lynch.

I think we just either have to go with a Paradox lynch or a no lynch.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Oh how wrong I was to doubt Lowell's return.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Vote:Lowell

Fairly sure Lowell is not a wolf, but chances of him being mafia are high. Mafia need to be removed now due to them nearly matching a majority right now.

As for the wolf it comes down to Furry, Paradox, and RV for me.

I am not the seer.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Unvote,Vote: Paradox

Second time's the charm.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Oh my vote didn't even matter as the lynch already happened.

So can we just clear Paradox's carcase out of the way and get to mafia already without any night interruption?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Given this:

Note: Mafia can now speak to each other during the day in their provided topic only for 36 hours after each lynch.

Perhaps we should refrain from saying much at all in the thread until the scumchat time expires.

I don't want to bog down the game, but it seems to me that limiting the information that scum might glean from in-thread discussion by townies is a very good idea.

Regards,
Jazz

Agreed

[Lynx The Antithesis]

My top three are:

1. Lowell
2. Flave
3.RV

Lowell's flopping of stances on Saber largely leads me to believe that there is indeed a connection between the two.

Scott had a strong point of leaving Saber be when everyone was going after him. But I'm not as sure about RV as the other two.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

My top three are:

1. Lowell
2. Flave
3.RV

Lowell's flopping of stances on Saber largely leads me to believe that there is indeed a connection between the two.

Scott had a strong point of leaving Saber be when everyone was going after him. But I'm not as sure about RV as the other two.

This post makes you look like you put no thought into this idea at all. So, basically, this is exactly what I thought might happen. Lynx is trying to plant the seed to vote for me (knowing that others have already shown willingness to do so throughout this game) while giving just enough vague reasons for it. My reaction to saber? On D1? Really? This post is either incredibly lazy or incredibly scummy. At this point with majority scum left I'm inclined to believe the latter.

This, to me, is an attempt to soften the ground for anyone tempted to vote for Lowell, without having to get in the fray himself. Someone sees it, says "yeah, okay, if it can help reach a majority... whatever." If it doesn't happen, he'll just jump somewhere else.

I'll admit, Lowell, I'm lazy. After the lag on the game, my interest severely dwindled. But It's ridiculous for you to call out my detail when your every post is concise and vague. You said, "Dank and Saber look town". That doesn't exactly shine with information. I've considered you scummy for basically the entire game. There have been multiple posts illustrating this. I find your suprise and sudden defense right now after all this time to suspicious. The only reason I haven't been going after you is because the last wolf was the first priority. I've been on you probably the most out of every player here.

How about you tell us who you suspect already instead of only trying to defend yourself and stall in order to see where everyone's suspicions are.

Could you also please explain why you only commented on my post and not Flave's list with a similar level of information? Why only question mine when we both included you in our suspicions?

The only reason I haven't voted you was because I wanted to see if Flave's list would in anyway further solidify a connection between you. I'm sure he only added your name to his list because two people suspect a connection between you and him.

Vote:Lowell

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I still don't like the "I'll vote for either, oh also I'm lazy" justification. My problem is it's just an easy vote, basically. That's why towns lose games, because town latches onto an easy idea, or because no one takes on scummy people who posit them.

fos lynx

Hello?! Once again, you've either ignored or not answered me. The lazy part only justifies the lack of info on you. I'll get around to it.

Who are your suspects? Post your top 3 now.

I got class in ten minutes, but I'll respond to Flave in a little bit.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I'd read through 5 pages and posted saying my top suspects were BigMC, Memorable, and Lynx. I came back later, admittedly with more reading to do, and backed up my suspicions on Lynx a little more by saying that I saw a lot of "people pleaser" posts and that his reasoning for voting Saber looked very policy-like, yet he went way out of his way to separate himself from any kind of policy lynch by saying that he genuinely suspected Saber. His response was that he did, in fact, suspect Saber. But his reasons for suspecting Saber were entirely policy-sounding reasons. When Lynx was told that Saber was doing this in all of his games, he ignored that and said it didn't matter. He said he still suspected Saber for these things.

A policy vote in this case is the attempt to remove a player regardless of alignment due to outside related issues with the person. Considering I did not want his outside games to influence my read on him here shows that it doesn't fall under this. Paradox's vote to remove him due to annoyance would though. Mine was strictly related to this game's voting patterns and play of him. His opportunistic jump on Memorable Raindrops and BigMc(yes, I know he was scum, but scum Saber would also not know this). Any wagon that would divert attention away from himself. Along with his threat to self-hammer they cannot just be defended because he does this "everywhere". No, it's scummy and I wouldn't let it slide. You can't just explain away anything he does that is scummy that he does this everyone.Every game has different circumstances so using it to justify anything he does is ridiculous. Saber claimed to be avoiding having a meta, but his play here only solidifies it.

When BigMC and myself were the top wagons Day 1, Lynx said that we'd get more info lynching BigMC or myself over anyone else. He said that was because we already had wagons that could be looked at. Well, for a lynch to happen, there WILL BE a wagon regardless of the speed and who is on it. Personally, if a speedlynch formed in the last hour before deadline on someone else, I think that would give us even more info than a lazy half-assed "oh shit, deadline" lynch. I do agree with the conclusion that with two major wagons near a deadline, a vote for anyone else is a wasted vote, but I disagree with his reasoning for why. Hell, maybe this is a theory disagreement, so I don't hold this as a major point against Lynx. I'll leave this paragraph here though so it's a lot of words and people think I have a strong case so you can follow my thought process.

I don't understand the point of this. You say yourself it's just a theoretical disagreement so why bother posting it? There had been multiple, multiple attacks on you and BigMc throughout day 1. I just stated clearly that it's obviously coming down between you two. I asked you to produce a suitable addition to you two and you failed to give anything.

This was Saber at L-1. Both wolves are on the Saber wagon at it's peak. This could have been used against them, but they're dead and that's not what we are after. Memorable and Paradox were town and are dead. Ignore those names. Removing them, here's the wagon:
L-1 saberwolf: Lynx The Antithesis, hewitt

I realize no one knows Saber's (my) alignment yet, so let's take both views into account. If I'm scum, look at their votes and decide if they were bussing. Knowing myself to be town though, I don't see how there could possibly be nobody at all from the mafia on this wagon. Lynx or Hewitt is very likely to be scum, if not both. This is from this alone remember. I have a town read on Hewitt (now Furry) though I may rethink that.

This doesn't help anyone else besides yourself because we don't know your alignment.

If you're scum, why should we look if we're bussing? We should look that there's a good chance you're scum. That way one mafia is being attacked by 2 wolves and 3 town. Probably even 4 town with Jazz looking townie. I don't find that too far-fetched or that unlikely.

bigmc109: curiouskarmadog, Lowell, Flava Flave, Jazzmyn, Lynx The Antithesis, dank, Paradoxombie
Lowell: hewitt
Flava Flave: bigmc109
Sanhora: Scott Brosius
Jazzmyn: Sanhora

Not Voting: danakillsu

Know what this is? That's right. A scum lynch. Ok, you can say what I know you're going to say. "Hey Flav, why are you using a lynch on a scum group that's already dead to try to catch scum?" Well, class, pay attention. You may learn something.

Put yourself in the mafia's shoes. Class, I'd like to introduce you to BigMC. Say hi to BigMC. "Hi BigMC". BigMC is a scum. He is a nuisance. He will be gone after Day 1. I apologize for this inconvenience. (Credit to the movie, Billy Madison). "Flav, how will the mafia react to this werewolf?" Ah, I was just getting to that, class. You see, since the mafia don't know BigMC's alignment at this point, they know he's either a scummy townie or a werewolf. Their biggest threat is the wolves because the wolves can NK. If MC isn't a wolf, they won't look so bad lynching him still, because he was scummy. We have 3 living mafia. Odds are EXTREMELY low that none of them were on this lynch.

What exactly does this prove? Haha you and lowell were on this wagon as well.

The strange thing was that you and Lowell were also on the Paradox wagon. The only reason you weren't on all three as well was because one was on yourself. If you remember, Lowell was on the Saber wagon for quite awhile until he very suspiciously, utterly went back and forth on you in a manner of like 7 posts. So overall, nice job concealing Lowell in your argument while puhing me. You pointed out a scum lynchand a town lynch. Both of which you and lowell were also part of. And also you included an unrevealed L-1 wagon on you most likely scum. I see nothing remarkable. All I see is me probably being on 1 wolf wagon, 1 town wagon, and most likely a scum wagon. Seems about right.

If I were to flip scum, you'd be best looking at:
Jazz
Lowell

This alone makes me want to switch my vote to you. Never, never say if I were to flip scum. Why would I townie possibly present this? You're right, no townie would ever use an example such as this. It is so incredibly scummy that it makes me want to lynch you right now. Nice job including one of your partners and one townie. Should certainly throw us off after you actually flip scum... yeah right.

Major FOS: Flave

Plain and simple, Lowell and Flave are partners with Rv being the likely third.

(Outside Note)I did like your presentation though. Creative and amusing, but lacking of actual substance.

HavingFitz, do you think me and Lowell are scum together or only separately?

Furry, do you still believe it's likely these two are scum with me after they've both focused largely on me right from the start of this Day?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lynx wrote:
Post 302 when I answered CKD outlines my reasons for my vote.


So it's 100% based on Saber's actions. Awesome.

Well it shouldn't be a suprise considering Saber was playing your role for a majority of the game.

Based on your reasoning, any player lynched in any game of mafia would provide an equal amount of information.

Based on what I've seen in this game (a connection between BigMC and Dank, but I'm waiting for a flip before I push that just to be sure), a BigMC lynch provides the most info.

No certainly not. For instance, a lynch on like scott who has lurked as of late and had a minimal amount of posting would provide us with the bare minimum. Not every player has commented on Scott so we wouldn't be able to read as many ties between him and the town obviously.

No, there's no excuse for trying to be lynched in every game you play. Still, it's a null tell

This is a stretch. You know for a fact that he's tried to be lynched in every game of his?

Lowell, I feel has explained himself. He saw what he interpreted as scummy actions, so he voted. Then he saw Saber actually being helpful (which he did just before he was replaced) and changed his mind. There is nothing scummy about logically changing your mind.

Actually, Lowell explains his thought process again in his last post.

But the problem is that Saber made all of three posts to create this change. Most of which were very minimal and not enough to influence such a major change from a town read to completely deserving of a lynch. Let's see:

Post 267

dank and saber both look town to me, despite their lover's spats.

Post 268

I think CKD and Lowell should join me on this BW, then we're tied 6-6, and we can have an ultimate BW showdown

Post 271

so what did I sow?

Post 275

I can't quit, or I lose my bet. You already know that hewitt.

Post 296

I think saber's recent behavior deserves a lynch.

I'll give dan a chance to chime in, however.

Flave, do you not find it odd that those three small posts caused a complete 180 on Saber? Or do you believe those three posts by Saber are scummy enough to warrant such an abrupt shift?

This was the my main problem with Lowell and still is.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I want a 1000 word apology pm from all those who lynched me including scum. Must include dowright praise of me and what you could have done to lynch Lowell instead.

Fun game everyone. I just wished we lynched lowell first, then you could have kicked me to the curb.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Sorry lynx, I'm unkillable.

You do seem to endure longer than me in the games I've played with you. Though I do seem to suspect you regardless of alignment.