Mini Normal 2239 | AQAtPimP | Game Over

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sup nerds

VOTE: Mewtaph

I've found the opportunistic vote
VOTE: Roden

[ssbm_Kyouko]

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VOTE: Not_Mafia

Damn it I forgot you were here, I was going to make this post

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Evidently I think you're more likely to be town than not because I don't think mafia!you steps on my toes as boldly as you have but I've been wrong before.

in what way does salsa's posts towards you make you think it's unlikely to be scum stepping on toes, that doesn't make you feel so from me/omega?

also, can was there a reason you picked her - taking a cursory glance at your topics, i don't see you've played together before?

It felt unnecessarily stand-offish. Scum can accomplish the same outcome (ie. reaching the conclusion of voting me) without navigating it the way that they did.

I chose her because of all places I could place my vote at the time, 1) this applied genuine pressure at the time, 2 votes being the largest wagon possible. This limited my options to a few people already. From there, I guess you could say it's a guessing game. I could be wrong about my read, as I have gotten similar reactions from both town and mafia. It depends on how things develop from here.

Though I somewhat agree here and maybe Salsa's is the worse vote

[ssbm_Kyouko]

why

don't play the fool with me, you know what you did

Yeah I do :/
VOTE: t3

that's proof of scum guilt
VOTE: t3
we gottem bois

All threads have daytalk

VOTE: T3

Hmmmmmmmmmmm..

Yeah ok I think we gottem
VOTE: T3

[ssbm_Kyouko]

did t3 did something outside of usual-t3 into scum-t3 territory? if it's a yes, can someone explain it to me pls i wanna join in on the fun

Yes he claimed Miller mason with N_M who he says is an encryptor in a daytalk-active game

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Because it doesn't make sense for there to be an encryptor mason when daytalk is active

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Because it didnt seem like a joke considering the Miller claims that had been going around. N_M had already claimed miller. Extending that to Miller Mason sounds like a real claim. I think T3 was making a scum fake claim and messed up and is now calling it a joke

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I didn't remember 27. My vote is solely because T3 tried to claim something that is not likely in a daytalk active setup and is now trying to walk it back as a joke

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think it was serious, because it sounds like the kind of convoluted role that gypyx normally puts into his games. Outside of a gypyx game, where N_M hasn't already claimed Miller, I'd believe it's a joke. In this case though I think it's clear he's walking back a gambit gone wrong.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

like, if you're a miller, ok
if you're mason miller, why out that you're also a mason
if you're outing that you're a mason, why out a partner as well

if you're mafia seriously fakeclaiming for no reason, why the hell would you do any of that

and going "yeah that seemed like a serious scum fakeclaim to me" feels like it's coming from scum who's grasping at reasons to wagon someone rather than town actually thinking things through

You argue that T3 making that claim would never actually be done by scum, but it's just as easily argued that scum would never actually believe a town player would make that claim, which is what you're accusing me of now.

You say I'm scum that is grasping for reasons to push T3. If you think it's ridiculous or unbelievable that I actually think T3 is lying here, but you dont realize that what you are postulating looks just as ridiculous, you're the one not thinking clearly.

Going to have to disagree with you on T3.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I didn't remember 27. My vote is solely because T3 tried to claim something that is not likely in a daytalk active setup and is now trying to walk it back as a joke

ok, now that i have reminded you, what is your opinion on t3?

pedit: very well then
still completely missing my point but ok

27 reinforces that it could have been a joke, but the reactionary vote does not sit right. It's not in good faith to omgus someone that missed the joke. You run that risk making a joke about roles and when it's misinterpreted the appropriate response is to clear up the misunderstanding.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Roden

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I’m a Miller btw

Same here! Don't we also have a masonry? Why haven't you posted in there?

i don't think this post sounds believeable at all and pretending it does is weird as hell to me, and if t3 is green i think kyouko deserves a closer look

rereading the t3 claim, not only is mason miller a nonsense role combination, he's apparently outing his mason buddy too, and how can you think any of this is serious

actually yeah
VOTE: kyouko

mason miller immediately outing his partner makes no sense

scum locking themself into such a powerful claim so early on makes even less sense

town

Shallow

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Dwlee Sorry, I just read through page 3 properly lol. I didn't realise you had been conf towned by a conf town

What did you mean by this? You arent even voting Dwlee at this point so why apologize to him?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It wasnt a joke the first time

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think the hop on mewtaph is opportunistic, your posts thus far are shorter than I expect to see out of town!you, though maybe it's too
early to tell on that front.

I also feel like you sort of egged on the vote on T3 but when datisi began questioning it you big dipped on the thread. This could be a coincidence though and primarily I'm voting you because the mewtaph vote looks opportunistic.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No, that's the whole of my case on roden

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If you want meta I can point you to town and scum games of his that I played in that are the basis for my read

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm just using this game to recalibrate my meta since it's getting annoying/exhausting to have to fake exaggerated tones every game.

I mean I feel that, presumably there's a long way to go in the Day so you've got time to convince me otherwise

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't really believe in meta

You passed the first test

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also I didn't dip out of the thread, I'm just at work lol

See I was thinking dinner probably based on the time. Like I said, primarily because of the mewtaph vote. I dont like that you disappeared but I knew it wasnt necessarily intentional. Doesn't keep me from suspecting it happened though ya know

[ssbm_Kyouko]

OOF POST 2
UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dwlee why is Margot scum?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Jesus christ all the N0 inno jokes make sense now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Question is, was dwlee aware he was being tested, and was he testing me on Roden as an attempt to pocket because it's a no-risk reaction test

[ssbm_Kyouko]

it was a complete joke not a reaction test, but kyo miserably failed the reaction test.

though what's hilarious is that i actually kinda don't like this so fuck me i guess

town

why?

I think T3 saying Kyo failed the reaction test means she's just town. Town doesn't give a shit about looking good, but scum sure does.

I think T3 was saying that Datisi is town. Pretty sure he is scumreading me.

theoretical disagree on "town doesn't care about looking good", but that's besides the point now - do you think kyouko was aware that her push on t3 was shaky and so scum!her wouldn't have made it in the first place?

because it seemed to me like she was convinced her push was great and made sense

so dunno if i agree there

Bolded is not what you were saying a mere 7 posts ago, what changed?

like, if you're a miller, ok
if you're mason miller, why out that you're also a mason
if you're outing that you're a mason, why out a partner as well

if you're mafia seriously fakeclaiming for no reason, why the hell would you do any of that

and going "yeah that seemed like a serious scum fakeclaim to me" feels like it's coming from scum who's grasping at reasons to wagon someone rather than town actually thinking things through

You argue that T3 making that claim would never actually be done by scum, but it's just as easily argued that scum would never actually believe a town player would make that claim, which is what you're accusing me of now.

You say I'm scum that is grasping for reasons to push T3. If you think it's ridiculous or unbelievable that I actually think T3 is lying here, but you dont realize that what you are postulating looks just as ridiculous, you're the one not thinking clearly.

Going to have to disagree with you on T3.

no, i'm arguing that claim would never be *seriously* made by scum. and again, no, i'm not arguing you're scum who believed town!t3,

i'm arguing you're scum who saw town!t3 was doing some bullshit nonsense, decided to play dumb, pretend you believe it, and then pretend to debunk it after "taking it seriously"

. see the difference?

Doesn't seem to me like you really believe that I did this, considering 215.

pedit: Mewtaph I haven't formed a read yet. I think I was scum with him a long time ago either in a newbie or a micro so I'll be looking into that at some point. I'm inclined to townlean just because of the wagon on him but that's not good enough to take him off the table D1 so I'll still have to read.

I'm not caught up to the IV wagon yet and at the point I'm at, IV still has not posted.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My viewpoint of "town vs scum caring about looking good" mainly comes from my own scum play style, but also something I've noticed in other players. For instance, Titus isn't in this game, but every time I've played with her I notice that she hunts for that town cred ASAP when scum and is a lot more casual D1 when town.

With Kyouko, I haven't really noticed her ever reach for town cred when town. She mainly just pokes and prods, and then starts walling when she's got a better grasp of the game state. I'd like to see one of her scum games though to note the differences.

Large Normal 233 and Mini Normal 2218 are my only recent scumgames. Everything else is pre-hiatus.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Read-list (in no particular order):

Roden

Datisi

datsi

T3

N_M
Aris
CO
iv

Getting a feeling that there is at least one scum in this list:

MR
Mew
Dwlee

ssbm

I think you're good at vibing out scum, so I'll trust this list if we can sort you as town.

salsa is town but so am I

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Turns out I replaced into mewtaph's scumslot in Newbie 1764, and I was scum in Micro 668 Birds of Paradise where Mewtaph was town. Both games from December 2016.

Spoiler:

Gotta love being able to recall this but unable to remember a conversation I had days ago irl /s

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Mewtaph
because metabad

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Tbh the confusion about the IC reveal comes from reading on my phone. I went to read on desktop today and it stood out as I was rereading. On mobile I skimmed over it because it was part of the first VC which I assumed was just going to say "Not Voting: Everyone"

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Are you scum

not in particular

You're not really doing this again after FIA WRC?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyouko do you have any reads besides T3? Same for Mew, do you have any reads?

I'll have to reread in the morning. Very tired rn and just catching up. T3's posting is now reminding me of how he crumbed traitor in FIA WRC. Answering "not particularly" to "are you scum", and combining his claim that he is disconnected from the game with his commentary on rolling scum being draining feels the same as FIA WRC. He would make inane comments on a lot of things, and hidden in each of those comments was a subtle hint. It was painfully obvious to ManateeGal and I that he was our Traitor, then he went and faked a detective guilty on MG and the whole game fell apart.

Oh I just remembered this is the mewtaph game. I metad him recently, think I found a scumtell. Not present in his towngames and is present here at least.

Hence my vote and the "meta bad" comment

[ssbm_Kyouko]

1 like = 1 thank

[ssbm_Kyouko]

yeah ime Salsa is scummy when town. I'm actually forgetting now if I've played with scum!Salsa before. I'm the one that pushed the mislim (I was also town) of Salsa that Dwlee was involved in.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

In my mind I still remember Salsa as scum in that game lmao

[ssbm_Kyouko]

my solve is currently datsi/NM/T3

dont @me

@Aristeia - Could you go into some of these in some level of depth?

^This is how far I currently am in a reread. I have thoughts to add on datsi. I've come to expect him to not vibe with me regardless of both of our alignments, so nothing is off there. I do think I can read him well with time and am just going to postpone that.

Dwlee I still think could have been pocketing me before I realized Roden was IC but overall they seem like town!dwlee so far.

I tried to meta MargotRosa the other day just before Mewtaph, because the parroting pinged me, but the words she used are part of her normal vernacular and I couldn't find evidence of her parroting as a scumtell in other games.

Speaking of Mewtaph, specifically what I found in his meta is that as scum he has made a big deal of getting the game out of RVS. It was a newbie game from a long time ago but he hasn't played many games. I think he's still new to scum and that this is still a viable tell. *puts on a tinfoil hat* Now for the juicy bit. Datisi coming into the game swinging on Mewtaph's opener could be a partner interaction. My theory is that Mewtaph came into the PT and voiced that he is new and/or uncomfortable playing scum. Datisi strikes me as a good scum player (have not metad them yet, but I get the vibe from their posting that they would be good at it), and I think that they could have planned for Datisi to make the push early and veer off in order to discourage wagons later in D1 and build cred for Datisi at the same time. I feel like when someone was a wagon early and their wagon dissipates that town is often hesitant to revisit the first wagon unless they've exhausted other scumreads and realized "hey, my original read might have been right because all these other players I've tried to pressure today are towntelling."

All that said, Datisi could have just sniped Mewtaph's ass and I'm not

convinced

Datisi is scum with Mewtaph. Just wanted to share this.

Aristeia I feel has been lackluster and hasn't been touched yet despite being obviously LHF, so that could be an indication that either scum are content with the current state or she is scum.

Chaos I haven't had to read before as I was scum in Large 233, but cOOl vibrations™ from them so far.

I'm always down to policy N_M early just in case, because I'm likely to defend a policy elim on him later in the game, and if he's scum that could put me in a difficult spot again. Also he left that note on my car in Dead Silence III which he may have accidentally meant to leave on my car in this game where he is actually mafia???

Uhh Roden is IC, voiced opinions on T3... I actually think the "Salsa moonlogic is town" comes from town!T3 so I'm conflicted on his slot atm.

Salsa as well I think is town from the tone and the direction of her questioning. This is a meta read.

I think that's thoughts on everyone but IV who had a weak entrance, and I'm waiting on more from, and Roden who is confirmed.

If I were to make a list right now:

Salsa
ChaosOmega, Dwlee
MargotRosa, Datisi
N_M, datsi*, IV
Aristeia, T3
-
Mewtaph

Nulls: N_M I'm not bothering with yet. I'll try later if I have to. Datsi I think I will be able to read with enough time. innocentvillager needs more posts for me. Aristeia is not falling into null for the same reason as IV because Aristeia's lack of content is being ignored, but IV's is not.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mewtaph Scumgame Newbie 1764

Slight townread on nydus. His excited opening reminds me of how I felt when I first joined the site. I don't think that scum!nydus would start off their game with what I would describe as almost a surplus of analysis despite not much happening yet.

Howdy Mew! Let's hope this time you don't gloss over obvious scum!
@DBW: I only spoke first because no one else spoke before me.

Haha, I've got a lot more energy to devote to this game than I did in that game, so hopefully such things won't slip past my radar this time round.

You were enthusiastic in the genuine "let's get this show on the road" way, not the current "!!!" way. It's often easy to do the latter while trying to fake the former.

I actually like Gamma so far. I tried to look for what you're saying and I agree that 13 feels over the top but other than that I like the enthusiasm he's trying to bring to the game. It keeps the game moving.

@Van/

DBW

Colored DBW red because he is Mewtaph's partner

: What do you think about the game state thus far?

Mewtaph Towngame Micro 668

I think that analyzing posts during the RVS phase is just a long winded time sink, but since you seem to have to some extent and disagree with me keeping thoughts about some posts, I thought I'd entertain you.
I don't understand the basis of your Transcend vote.
Where I get confused is where your first handful of posts consisted of a video and a doge meme, and your voting someone for making an ego post. How does Transcend's post take it over the top in a sense that translates into scumminess? (to the point of trying to get others to vote him). Yeah, it doesn't contain an RVS vote, but neither does yours.

Notes

As scum, Mewtaph has indicated that getting out of RVS ("keeps the game moving") is towny. He also indicates that deep analysis early on is unlikely to come from scum. As town, he thinks analysus of RVS posts is long-winded and a time sink, which to me indicates he sees it negatively, or scummy, or as anti-town. So he has opposite opinions of early analysis as town and scum. Additionally, the "deep analysis" is often what leads to games coming out of RVS, because it gets people talking about the deep analysis.

I think that Mewtaph made 10/12 for towncred because in his scum mindset, he sees keeping the game moving as towny. I think it is suspicious that in this game, Mewtaph has a placid response to Datisi's over-analysis of Mewtaph's own 10/12, because townreading over-analysis is something he does as scum, but not as town.

Some quotes that support the Notes:

@ChaosOmega: I don't know about likely to get votes, but talking about pressure in the way that I did in my first post does create a potential scenario for votes to come in my direction. Said scenario happened, now the way that it happened being AI or not is up for debate (I'll hold off on commenting on that for now).

10 is a bit directed and selfish for my own read purposes, I'm not going to overjustify it this early on. It is a vote and it is perhaps an easy justification for a vote. When it comes to pretty much every game, I want the game to move away from RVS which is why I made that vote the way that I did.

@Datisi: 12 may seem forced. However, more posts as far as I'm concerned brings the game in a direction further away from RVS which is the spirit of what I created 12 in. I do anticipate how it can come off as forced solvy but prior to that point the thread was still in RVS. 12 wasn't on my mind when I made 10. Looking for spaces to squeeze potential areas to move away from RVS, however, it seeme a reasonable place to start ias any n addition to my first vote to try and get the game state moving.

snipped for brevity

I don't want to get stuck on something that happened on page 2-3. All I'll say is this: I think we're referring to different types of pressure here. I got what I wanted out of my vote, arguably more than I bargained for

since we seemed to have moved out of RVS almost immediately after that post

. If this causes others to scumread me then fine.

I like Margot's intention to do a dive and post a reads list. Do I actually like Margot as town is a different situation entirely and something I'm still going to have to decide on in the posts to come.

I also looked at other games but didn't find anything to contradict my theory, and the other scumgame(s) I found (I know I found at least one) he was a replace-in, so RVS was not discussed in his ISO.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^bold gold

text is me, not trying to impersonate the overlord

[ssbm_Kyouko]

wow I sniped post 420 with a case what a fucking legend

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm town though - is Salsa still town for you or nah?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm... I want to see what Mew's response for this. Their play style is confusing to me. But I agree, I also felt that they wanted the towncred for moving the game forward from the RVS but at the same time, it attracts attention
where I can't wrapping my head around it. If they're gamble type scum players, then it makes sense ig.

I feel like I've responded to the parts I can really respond to as best as I can, but if there's anything in particular that you want me to address, feel free to point me in that direction.

Speaking of Mewtaph, specifically what I found in his meta is that as scum he has made a big deal of getting the game out of RVS.

Like, this is as far as I can really respond up to. This honestly reads more like just what I did this game except I don't really care about it either (leaving RVS, yes, great, but "claiming" that for towncred or as what good has come out of my posts I don't really give a shit about).

It was a newbie game from a long time ago but he hasn't played many games. I think he's still new to scum and that this is still a viable tell. *puts on a tinfoil hat* Now for the juicy bit. Datisi coming into the game swinging on Mewtaph's opener could be a partner interaction. My theory is that Mewtaph came into the PT and voiced that he is new and/or uncomfortable playing scum. Datisi strikes me as a good scum player (have not metad them yet, but I get the vibe from their posting that they would be good at it), and I think that they could have planned for Datisi to make the push early and veer off in order to discourage wagons later in D1 and build cred for Datisi at the same time.

This is a scenario specific to a scum!me and scum!Datisi scenario, so in other words largely a waste of time unless they're planning on pushing that further on D1.

I feel like when someone was a wagon early and their wagon dissipates that town is often hesitant to revisit the first wagon unless they've exhausted other scumreads and realized "hey, my original read might have been right because all these other players I've tried to pressure today are towntelling."

All that said, Datisi could have just sniped Mewtaph's ass and I'm not convinced Datisi is scum with Mewtaph. Just wanted to share this.

This is more of a general statement and one that even I'd agree with, except I don't think that there's any hesitation when it comes to people voting my slot lol.

I do like 420 though in terms of Kyouko being town but 382 alone doesn't really convince me that they're town. Though in any case I don't think I'm the target audience of these posts anyway.

Regarding the bold - I said just after that in the same post I do think it's possible Datisi just made that read as town, you even quoted it: "Datisi could have just sniped Mewtaph's ass and I'm not convinced Datisi is scum with Mewtaph." I don't think it's a waste of time to post it. I'm having some degree of paranoia on Datisi's early post about you that I think is probably unwarranted, but I'm always* going to share something like this because I'm thinking it.

*unless I'm hiding it on purpose to be revealed later after I've formed a stronger read, like I did to Gamma in Radio Buzz. Probably not going to try that again for a while, it didn't work all that well.

As for the audience bit, these posts are for everyone. They're not directed at you, sure, but I'm reading your responses.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

L****. plans.

We don't use that word on site anymore

[ssbm_Kyouko]

yeah, iv's use of the term shotgun reads pinged me for parroting so I searched his ego and he's only used it once before, also in a game with Datisi, also he was using the term to reference Datisi's usage of the term. They were both town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

hmm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was considering aristea, but then I realized if IV was really catching up he would have already seen me missing post 2's IC reveal

[ssbm_Kyouko]

HMMMMMMMMMM

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was considering aristea, but then I realized if IV was really catching up he would have already seen me missing post 2's IC reveal

iv how do you plead?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

yeah, iv's use of the term shotgun reads pinged me for parroting so I searched his ego and he's only used it once before, also in a game with Datisi, also he was using the term to reference Datisi's usage of the term. They were both town.

i'm probably about to go off at iv myself but like in what universe is that scum!indicative? or town!indicative for that matter? even if he had never heard that term before, saw me use it, and decided to use it himself, how does that potentially reveal anything about his or my own alignment here?

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Scum will subconsciously or intentionally copy town players, or players that are perceived to be town, both to pocket/buddy that player, and to appear more like that consensus TR to everyone else. I almost always do this kind of ego search if I notice this behavior to see if it is normally a word a player would use. Like MR and "galaxy brain".

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I’m a Miller btw

spicy. is this a serious claim? i'm guessing it is, since i've never seen n_m troll by claiming miller, but to make sure.

Yes, I’m serious, and don’t call me Shirley

Where? Don't remember.

It's a reference to a joke from American media. An old movie or TV show. Someone says "Surely you can't be serious?" and the other person (who is male) responds "Of course I'm serious, and don't call me Shirley."
Because "surely" and "Shirley" sound the same.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Your entire paragraph is

divorced

from what I was saying

This feels unnatural, like when scum searches for a powerful word to drive a point home. A quick ego search reveals you haven't used the term before. Why now?

Weary

This is what is infuriating to dwlee about one of the ways I do meta. From a completed game.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Meta: t3 only metas dwlee when he is evil

Dwlee does not meta

[ssbm_Kyouko]

CAN I METADIVE DWLEE
THE SEQUEL

O SHIT I MIGHT HAVE FOUND A TELL

According to the tell, you are town.

I really don't want to reveal this tell because this is the holy grail of meta tells (note that Dwlee has no scumgames since Open Draft so this tell might have gone away)

Last time T3 tried to meta dive people he ended up being scum who was just TMI'ing who town was while bussing his scum buddy.

This is what it looks like when I use meta as scum and I'm

still

chuckling

[ssbm_Kyouko]

pedit: Mewtaph I haven't formed a read yet. I think I was scum with him a long time ago either in a newbie or a micro so I'll be looking into that at some point.

I'm inclined to townlean just because of the wagon on him but that's not good enough to take him off the table D1 so I'll still have to read.

@ssbm_Kyouko: Can you explain this townlean after finding out that Roden is IC and Salsabil faria being your strongest town read? If those two are true, on what basis were you inclined to townlean me for the wagon as you describe in 272?

Roden being IC just meant 1 of the 5 votes on you was guaranteed to be from town, and that revelation didn't have a bearing on my impression of the wagon on you. Salsa was not a townread at the time. I was thinking her vote was also scummy, potentially moreso than Roden's. The pedit you quoted was posted at the time that I had read through 215.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Meta: t3 only metas dwlee when he is evil

Dwlee does not meta

Who is meta??

I'm so meta, even this acronym

[ssbm_Kyouko]

On Kyouko, I read what you wrote on them and I largely agree if that makes sense. I don't know if my townreads exactly lines up in the realm of things scum!Kyouko wouldn't do and I want to relook my read there at some point, maybe even D1 if you're specifically looking there for potential scum.

i don't think there's any pressure/hurry to do this, but if you've got free time to invest in the game, this might be a good idea. i don't wanna push kyouko because of two reasons (1) derp on ic (2) most people seemed to townread her and claim that she has polarizing play, and they seem to know better than me. otherwise, i'm really not impressed with her slot i guess... i would like her to adress my 629? (*cough* @kyo)

catching up atm. I don't have anything helpful to say in response to 629. I read it, it seems you disagree with the conclusion I drew from metaing Mewtaph. I read why you disagree and I dont agree with your reasoning, and was leaving it at that.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Datisi metaing MBOS is next on my list

on first glance it looks superficially similar but obviously i need to look into it more, if ur getting similar vibes maybe my tl on T3 weakens

Alright I think I missed where this was mentioned in the first place but everyone is talking about it now and I feel like I'm missing context by not knowing. What is "MBOS"? Anyone can answer

[ssbm_Kyouko]

faking an emotional response is a standard part of a social deduction game,

if you say that emotions can't be faked and you will never play with someone who is faking an emotional response then um that's not really playing mafia?

If anyone actually has mental health issues due to playing this game, I would assume they would just replace out in order to prioritize their actual well-being over a silly text based game.

Nothing you're saying here is wrong. That's not the issue.

I'm getting repeatedly told by two different players that they refuse to talk to me, and imply I've done or said something genuinely damaging. Faking an emotional response, and claiming harm to one's emotional state, are just two completely different things and takes this game to a place that makes it impossible for me to actually play.

Genuinely, what am I supposed to do here?

You'll know when you've crossed a line, or are approaching that point. You aren't here as far as I can tell. If you do cross, you can apologize in an out-of-the-game sense and still scumread someone. People can be scum

and

experience mental/emotional health issues due to the game. Some people (myself included) will choose to play this game despite it being bad for mental/emotional health because they value the fun over their wellbeing.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87360

Thanks, probably will have to reread all the mbos references for context

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also not into the Margot wagon, would policy N_M, but not before taking a good look at T3 and his wagon. I feel like I'm decent at reading T3 when I put my mind to it. I feel a bit out of it after the V/LA but I recall not liking his early posting.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyouko I see you online, care to try and contest my accusation?

If you care to make one, sure. Not playing my towngame is hardly an accusation though. What are your thoughts on my play, specifically?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
This was the person I wanted to look into, and what I saw in ISO was kinda what I recalled from what stuck with me reading in real time
She’s not playing her towngame, at best this is a cheap imitation

Early on you SR me, but later on you say the random irrelevant meta is town-indicative. This feels like an impression you post when reading along.

yeah, iv's use of the term shotgun reads pinged me for parroting so I searched his ego and he's only used it once before, also in a game with Datisi, also he was using the term to reference Datisi's usage of the term. They were both town.

i'm probably about to go off at iv myself but like in what universe is that scum!indicative? or town!indicative for that matter? even if he had never heard that term before, saw me use it, and decided to use it himself, how does that potentially reveal anything about his or my own alignment here?

ngl the random irrelevant meta point seems town indicative from kyouko

There was also a Margot readslist you commented on positively that had me as town - no complaints from you there. What were you thinking when you read the first time, and how has the rereading reaffirmed that?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

MargotRosa
Not_Mafia
Aristeia
Mewtaph
datsi
Dwlee99
ChaosOmega

This is my unordered poe atm. It is especially bad when Dwlee is still in my poe on D1.

Need to narrow this but right now looking in this pool.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Rereading my own ISO because I seriously doubt it lacks depth or screams scum as Gamma says, and it seems I TRed chaos before VLA, so tentatively striking him from the list.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

T3 is town btw, read up on that a little bit ago. If I had to pick a scum on the wagon it'd be Dwlee. I can go there for now. IV and Roden I think are misplaced on Margot.

Datisi I'm not sure if he's town but if he's scum he doesnt have the influence to power wolf and if he's town will be NKed at some point so not limming there at all toDay. Datsi (Gamma) I think I'll be able to read more accurately with time. I'm inclined to say scum at the moment but will give him some more time in case I'm wrong.

VOTE: dwlee

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Datisi I'm not sure if he's town but if he's scum he doesnt have the influence to power wolf and if he's town will be NKed at some point so not limming there at all toDay.

how do these two things go together? like, if i'm town, you think i'm so important that scum will have to kill me, but if i'm scum, i don't hold influence to powerwolf?

Not so important that scum will have to kill you, but you strike me as a free thinker. You don't carry the influence to powerwolf here, but you also arent going to be easy to sway. If you are town, the longer the game goes on with you alive, the more accurate you'll get. I don't think you'll make it to ELO as town because you're not going to be useful as a vote or as a target for scum.

As for you Gamma, the hatred you're feeling from me is imagined. I don't take any issue with you at a personal level. I've misread you only once since coming back to the site. You're just buttfrustrated by my play in Radio Buzz, and probably that Mini Normal, and I dont see that as my problem. I'd been waiting to read you because I figured out what I think is a good tell and am waiting to see it either way.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not buying it Kyo. Anything to convince me?

Maybe I'm just falling for Roden pocketing me

You know it's weird though. My first game with Roden I kind of tunneled him. Then he was town. Second game I didn't tunnel him and he was scum. Maybe that's the read. What do you think?

He said something was scummy cause of a lie but in a different game had said provable lies aren't scum! indicative.

I can vote t3 with you
VOTE: T3

So the 2 main issues I'm taking with dwlee are here. I already mentioned his reaction test on me with regards to Roden didnt feel quite right earlier, as though it was done to gain towncred with no risk, additionally it's a big problem when dwlee starts to use meta to justify a read. Metabad is a town trait of Dwlee's and I can see them fighting against using it on IV, probably because they are aware that they dont like meta and are worried about looking different than they should as town. In the one scumgame of Dwlee's that I have seen, he was willing to use meta. He has not been willing to use it as town, as far as I've seen.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Not so important that scum will have to kill you, but you strike me as a free thinker. You don't carry the influence to powerwolf here, but you also arent going to be easy to sway. If you are town, the longer the game goes on with you alive, the more accurate you'll get. I don't think you'll make it to ELO as town because you're not going to be useful as a vote or as a target for scum.

VOTE: Kyo

Do you disagree with my assessment of Datisi?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

When was I using meta here? And I think you're being inconsistent which is why that made me vote you

When you said T3 said provable lies are NAI in another game and then voted him. What's inconsistent?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: innocentvillager

Why is this day not over yet?

Because no wagon has gained momentum since the one on IV
which imo is probably a town-indicative thing for IV?

Datisi I'm not sure if he's town but if he's scum he doesnt have the influence to power wolf and if he's town will be NKed at some point so not limming there at all toDay.

how do these two things go together? like, if i'm town, you think i'm so important that scum will have to kill me, but if i'm scum, i don't hold influence to powerwolf?

Not so important that scum will have to kill you, but you strike me as a free thinker. You don't carry the influence to powerwolf here, but you also arent going to be easy to sway. If you are town, the longer the game goes on with you alive, the more accurate you'll get. I don't think you'll make it to ELO as town because you're not going to be useful as a vote or as a target for scum.

As for you Gamma, the hatred you're feeling from me is imagined. I don't take any issue with you at a personal level. I've misread you only once since coming back to the site. You're just buttfrustrated by my play in Radio Buzz, and probably that Mini Normal, and I dont see that as my problem. I'd been waiting to read you because I figured out what I think is a good tell and am waiting to see it either way.

I feel like you kinda had it out for me in 3d20 as well. I'll admit it's not the most sensible thing as you seemed chill in 2213 and OMB, but since then there's been a sense that you've constantly been paranoid of me ig. There's other factors but I can't really dive into them because of ongoing games

YOU WERE LITERALLY SCUM IN 3D20. Yes I overcompensated in Radio Buzz soon after OMB because you slipped by me for a long time in OMB, but I corrected that

during

Radio Buzz.

Out of the game? I know you're feeling targeted by me recently and I was trying to respect that in this game by waiting to see if you posted in a specific way that I think you only post as when you're scum. I'm not trying to upset you on a personal level, I'm trying to win games, and when I think you're scum, I'm going to act on it. I'm trying to do it in a way that isn't going to make you feel targeted.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

When was I using meta here? And I think you're being inconsistent which is why that made me vote you

^^

When was I using meta here? And I think you're being inconsistent which is why that made me vote you

When you said T3 said provable lies are NAI in another game and then voted him. What's inconsistent?

I was town in MBOS

That paragraph you said applies to me as a player as well I think yet you're voting me

He said something was scummy cause of a lie but in a different game had said provable lies aren't scum! indicative.

I can vote t3 with you
VOTE: T3

Wait a minute, I think I misread. I thought 992 was you using that argument (that he said provable lies are NAI in another game) to justify voting for him here. I see now you were saying that in MBOS you caught T3 being inconsistent between his town and scum play about provable lies being scum!indicative.

So you do use meta as town, you just dont call it meta
UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

But you knew how he was supposed to act based on previous experience with him, that's why I say it's meta

[ssbm_Kyouko]

He could have changed how he thinks about the game though, unless he said different things in concurrent games, but even then, you have to make that call.

I've definitely said different things in concurrently running games that share the same players when I was town in both games, just so the shared players dont get too comfortable reading me. Any one of them could be scum and if they think I'm mislimmable over that it protects me from NKs.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Interesting Margot shows this caution for T3 but not for IV

She's been corrected on it already.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Chaos, what happened to your suspicions on Dwlee? They seemed pretty consistent up to 942, then Dwlee makes 943 and you seem to drop it because he AtEs you. I thought this drop of the read was worse than it really was because I thought you made 1047

after

Datisi had just voted Dwlee (I was reading your ISO and recalled 1047 was made around the time that happened, but when I opened thread I saw Datisi voted in 1049).

Can you also go into your IV scumread? You said you'd follow up with it but didn't post the reasoning later on, just voted him

[ssbm_Kyouko]

T3 who else do you scumread?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

We have 32 hours.
VOTE: N_M
Also willing to do Mewtaph.

Don't think I want to do T3, Datisi, or Margot

Won't do Chaos, Salsabil

Anyone else I feel fine with.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mmm okay, that case feels genuine. I reread IVs ISO and dont see anything within to make me hesitate on him toDay.

VOTE: IV

This makes 4 votes I think. Last VC says (3) but only had 2 names listed. It's now 5 for T3, 4 for IV

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What does stand out to me in IV ISO btw is he treats the N_M miller claim like conftown which seems weird to me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm back properly, and I have the energy and the the passion to actually spell out all the reasons IV is scum.

IV drops in 336, clearly has only caught up enough to have worked out they had three votes and that's it. They park a vote on Datsi (338), well outside of RVS, but four hours later they indicate they don't have a reads list 395.

I would be interested for someone to do a meta dive on all their posts prior to 570. The ones with anything even approaching substance are all but non-existent, and I have serious doubts about the ones that claim to have substance.

Before we get into 570, I would also like to make a brief detour to point out that my read on IV in 526 is basically the same read that Datisi gives in 553. If you don't like my vote, don't like theirs either. Which you won't do, obviously, because Datisi is basically town lock for everyone at this point.

So then 570.

i'm a bit busy for the next 4-5 hours so i'll properly read and respond to all the posts then (i've skimmed a bit), but i wanted to out a hot take in the meantime:

iv is likely scum. the fact that he hasn't returned from his catching up yet from yesterday (and that catchup was like 5 pages with non-explained reads? lol) is indicative that he doesn't want to be in this game. and as much as it pains me to say, if iv is red, aristeia is somewhat likely to be a partner. mainly because her reads seem to be kind of consensus-y/yeetbaity players, but there's absolutely no mention of iv anywhere, who i think would fit that description rn. her last game with me made me think she's anti bus, so i could see her be trying to divert attention from iv here.

okay this is the basis for my push?

Datisi idk wtf ur doing here I hope you don’t actually believe this

I have been playing this game for less than 24 hours phoneposting and I am like 20+ pages behind or whatever

Granted the late start was my fault but I don’t see how You could think I’m just scum here

My catch was done in the middle of the workday which I don’t really have a real break I’m taking time out to play this

If you MUST know what I was doing last night I am with my partner celebrating a holiday and I don’t really want to be playing mafiascum during that

Was I seriously about to die because I hadn’t posted for like 16 hours?? Hello what the fuck Datisi? And how did people agree with that?

I swear dogshit like this makes me want to go back into hiatus I don’t have like 2 hours every day to devote to this and I shouldn’t have to explain myself every time I go away for a very reasonable amount of time

Datisi you are scum here trying to push a fast one on me while I am still in catchup more or town doing idk what maybe trying to tilt me into this. like I’d like to think Town gou isn’t this bad how can you possibly show so much confidence in this read just based on that. I hope you have a great explanation for this or I am vote parking you the rest of the game

actually one of the most ridiculous flashwagons I have seen in my life

Margot is also scum here or needs to go back to Newbie queue for intentionally putting me at E1 this early on AND asking for a claim especially with NM in the game but maybe not even

I will put a little bit of time into this tonight but if I’m going to get killed because im not poring over this for hours a day like cmon that’s just ridiculous

So first off, it isn't actually true that it had been less than 24 hours. This post was made

just over

24 hours after the last one. I felt like my autism was probably showing a bit too much to hold onto this as a tell, but I really didn't like it at the time. Less than 24 hours works better for AtE purposes than "24 hours ago" imo, so it was a slight scum tell. Especially when the gap between the posts previous and the posts made in this block was just over 18 hours, and in the post he says it had been 16. Like, minor inconsistencies, but it just got into my head a bit that there were enough little lies that had just enough of an emotional justification to be indicative of something.

Aside from anything else, though, this is a wild post to come from someone who has refused to give reads given the string of posts from 395 to 416, in which he spends over 20 minutes posting on this forum, responding to other people's play and giving slight reads one way or the other. This part here, "Datisi you are scum here trying to push a fast one on me while I am still in catchup more or town doing idk what maybe trying to tilt me into this." is particularly telling, imo. The only adequate response to Datisi would be reads. Instead, they get mad about Datisi expecting any reads in the first place.

Why? Because they have no reads. Because they know who scum is, and because if you are Town and have 20 minutes to read through a game, your priority is finding scum, and if you are Scum and have 20 minutes to read through a game, your priority is making sure everyone thinks you are Town.

That's why there are so many posts in that 20 minute window.

That's why the posts are full of inane nonsense.

That's why 24 hours after entering the game properly, IV still had no real reads, and had instead spent what little time he had on the forums to try and endear himself to other players rather than read people's alignment.

IV is scum. I throw the book straight at his face and say good day.

VOTE: IV

Okay I'm vibing now

Chaos/Margot/Salsa town
If IV flips red, Datisi locked in there as well

Game coming together and not a moment too soon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Strike through is the part of the case that I don't vibe with the reasoning because of those arent lies, those are just estimations, but the WIM shown from examining timestamps like that is just obvtown imo. I know I never do that as scum, and very rarely will I do it as town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-09-30 20:18:31) or when a wagon reaches majority at 7 votes

Unofficial:

T3 (5) : Salsabil Faria ; Aristeia ; Datsi ; Datisi ; Not_Mafia
Innocentvillager (4) : ChaosOmega ; Dwlee99 ; ssbm_Kyouko ; MargotRosa
MargotRosa (2) : innocentvillager ; Mewtaph
ssbm_Kyouko (1) : T3


Not voting (1) : Roden

[ssbm_Kyouko]

T3 and IV not voting each other yet, so it's kinda like they're at 6-5, assuming they would vote each other. The assumption I have is N_M would hammer either one so essentially they're both E-1, and Roden decides the lim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was already thinking it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

adding 24 hours to the deadline because of a replacement search

[ssbm_Kyouko]

adding 24 hours to the deadline because of a replacement search

Papa bless

Hit quote instead of Q+ and forgot it takes away the quick-reply

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Alright, gotta get on this game.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Night 1 has ended !

Roden has died, he was...

Spoiler:

Town Innocent Child

Welcome ! You are a

Town Innocent Child

On the start of Day 1, you will be publicly confirmed as aligned with the Town

You win if the town survives to see all threats to them dead, the game thread is here

Not_Mafia has died ! he was...

Spoiler:

Vanilla Townie

Welcome ! You are a

Vanilla Townie

You have no power other than your voice and your vote

You win if the town survives to see all threats to them dead, the game thread is here

Day 2 starts now

Lmao that's not a Miller. N_M with the bad luck swapping off of IV in that fashion

[ssbm_Kyouko]

bad NM kill wtf

Why is it bad? I probably would have done it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

By the way. The sand has become scorched earth, now the line is a crack in the glass.

Is this at me and if so what does it mean?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

t3 is better to kill 100% of the time with how the wagons played out

also IV tmi'd NM town when he said NM conftown

T3 being better doesn't make N_M bad though, and the second half is just WIFOM imo

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: T3

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That might be e-1 but I think its e-2 unless there were more unvotes than I recall

[ssbm_Kyouko]

By the way. The sand has become scorched earth, now the line is a crack in the glass.

Is this at me and if so what does it mean?

Yes it’s @ you
No I’m not clarifying further.

I think you're saying I have transcended badtown territory into hellish town territory tbh, stooping to N_M levels of play

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That was E-1 (Datisi, Salsabil Faria, Aristea, Me, Margot)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Datisi
MargotRosa
Salsabil Faria
Aristeia
ChaosOmega

2 scum in this 5 I think. Probably not Chaos I feel, he seemed too real in some posts iirc

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Funny, the 4 left were on the elim wagon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I gotta sleep for now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I know Aristea and Margot had interactions with IV that make them both look not partnered. I feel like Datisi did too. The problem with that is it only leaves Salsa, and there are 2 scum left. Somewhere amongst those 3 there is scum theatre.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's been long enough to read him for me and he's town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I want to look at Chaos carefully actually first.

This interaction here was a big plus for me. Actually in grabbing this for you and rereading it I notice the bolded

Chaos, what happened to your suspicions on Dwlee? They seemed pretty consistent up to 942, then Dwlee makes 943 and you seem to drop it because he AtEs you. I thought this drop of the read was worse than it really was because I thought you made 1047

after

Datisi had just voted Dwlee (I was reading your ISO and recalled 1047 was made around the time that happened, but when I opened thread I saw Datisi voted in 1049).

Can you also go into your IV scumread? You said you'd follow up with it but didn't post the reasoning later on, just voted him

I still have suspicions of Dwlee, I'm just cognizant of previously misreading them and going off the rails (and you were in that game as well). Especially since they're not a viable option today, I'm tabling it for now.

True, let me go back through here. His opening, this is a minor point and I'm biased because I've seen scum do it twice now since I've been back, but his start where he's like livetweeting as he's reading supposedly to look town and give genuine reactions seems easy for scum to fake. I'm going to quote his read on Datisi from 694:

datisi - i honestly have no idea on datisi nothing he's done makes me think town or scum. push on me was bad but i can see it from scum him too.

This is also minor (which might be a trend), but this is a weird choice of wording to use. He scumread Datisi earlier in the game, the post has Datisi in null, so his read softened a bit it looks like, but wording it like this makes it seem like the bad push on his slot is most likely if Datisi is town, which he was arguing against earlier.

This also seems like a weird backtrack to make on Datisi's slot, he scumread Datisi previously, but now none of his actions are AI to him. It reads like he got Datisi to suspect him less, then lessened his own read to disengage and get suspicion off himself. I also think his scumread and park on Margot is lazy, but this might be more of a playstyle difference and I understand why he would be more invested in the read.

Mmm okay, that case feels genuine. I reread IVs ISO and dont see anything within to make me hesitate on him toDay.

VOTE: IV

This makes 4 votes I think. Last VC says (3) but only had 2 names listed. It's now 5 for T3, 4 for IV

Maybe the bolded is indicative of town!Datisi and scum!Margot? With the context of IV's flip, parking a vote on a buddy that isn't necessarily going to OMGUS you is probably one of the safest ways to ride out pressure. I'm not sure if scum!Margot was forced to bus though. Need to get context around their IV vote.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I know Aristea and Margot had interactions with IV that make them both look not partnered. I feel like Datisi did too. The problem with that is it only leaves Salsa, and there are 2 scum left. Somewhere amongst those 3 there is scum theatre.

Do you townread

datsi

because they didn't have direct interaction with

iv

?

I think I've found a decent way to meta him, and he's posted enough of a certain kind of post now without the presence of the scumtell that I think he's just town here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I have no reason to spend so many posts to tell

Roden

not to townbin IV when he thought IV was inno due to emotional manipulation if I am IV-partner

What is my reason to kill person who townread me strongly from D1 where I get eliminated all the time as any alignment?

are you seriously asking me why the scum shot the IC?

Since when

T3

was an ic??

Aristea was talking about Roden. Were you talking about T3? It read like you were talking about a nightkill, either Roden or Dwlee.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I’m thinking the T3 wagon was probably pure

Including Margot?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I’m thinking the T3 wagon was probably pure

Including Margot?

I already said I rethought that

VOTE: datsi

i feel the most confident about this slot flipping red

i think last one is probably salsa but that is less confident

If you reread eod1 - I think its quite clear Datsi approached it in a very agenda'd manner.

I'm beginning to think your push on me isn't in good faith, given you haven't reconsidered it once despite the flips, meanwhile in mini 2226 you were extremely tepid after Meg flipped town
VOTE: aristeia
I hadn't considered that meta point until I went to write this, I think it's actually pretty solid.

I saw that, just wanted to confirm your thoughts on Margot.

I feel like Aristea has an agenda right now - to push datsi because he was reading T3 and IV wagons as SvS. I also read them that way and I went back to reread end of D1 and don't see agenda in datsi's posting. It seems clear that he believes the wagons are SvS and is trying to sus that out, hence his 1195. For as confident as she claims to be the push feels limp - I'm not moved by "i feel the most confident about this slot flipping red," nor "kyouko you are just wrong."

I also don't think IV TMIed N_M town and the assertion he did felt like a bit of a cheap shot yesterday. Additionally, I don't like the comment she made on toDay's NK. Dwlee very obviously crumbed investigative yesterDay, so it isn't a weird kill at all. I feel like scum are often compelled to comment on the NK early in the day and 1346 looks like that kind of forced post scum makes. It doesn't really say anything. If anything it says "look I didn't notice the obvious PR soft so I wouldn't have killed him"

VOTE: Aristea

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^And maybe in saying IV TMIed N_M as town, Aristea shows her own TMI

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Nah I just think I might have something really good next day phase

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not a vig

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ydrasse levels of ate here

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Choo choo

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I remember when I read Gamma's post on Radio Buzz D1 I was already thinking it. I'm town so I know it's a reasonable thought to have had at the time he had it if he is town, and I believe he is.

But thank you for explaining what you're seeing, I'll take a look at it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kinda forgot tomorrow was MELO if we miss toDay, probably we should massclaim since it's the day before.

I'm a VT

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I really don't know what you want from me. Fuck it, whatever, I'll just town lock you forever since I'm apparently an asshole if I don't.

^

this is from roden to IV

This was a genuine frustration Roden was having that he expressed sarcastically - he was not actually intending to locktown IV

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I thought Enchant was the vig given N_M was shot over T3 - seemed like a shot coming from someone that missed the context of the wagons, also if he was a vig or potentially an IC vig with (?) modifiers he's super confirmable and wouldn't give a fuck about hammering IV with his first post lmao. I could see Gypyx putting in a wild role like that and giving scum the 2 different finder abilities to trick them into thinking the IC and Vig are different players.

Or maybe Datisi given his reaction to the N_M kill *shrug*

[ssbm_Kyouko]

just dont self vote and get yourself killed tomm if u flip me because tomm is mylo

Don’t know why you keep repeating this but

ssbm

don't self vote.

because the last time i saw kyouko hardpush a townie to death she decided to suicide vote herself the day after and almost threw the game to the scum.

I maintain my play improved town's chances at winning that game - there may have been a better line to take, but I feel like I got there in the end.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Datisi
MargotRosa
Salsabil Faria
Aristeia
ChaosOmega

2 scum in this 5 I think. Probably not Chaos I feel, he seemed too real in some posts iirc

I remember how Salsa nightkills as mafia (it's chaotic mess) so maybe it explains why dwlee dead.

Do you see scum!Salsa with any of the above partners?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

How likely is the universe in which Ari/Datsi is SvS playing for an eliminate one, the other coasts to victory, type situation?

Very unlikely... It would be a super risky move and unnecessary attention.

Surface level thought here is that scum!salsa doesnt want to dismiss this as a possibility, so salsa is probably town unless this is just theatre

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Massclaiming before MELO is the correct play

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If anyone has something to hide until MELO at the risk of being CCed or not believed they can just claim VT for now and reveal later

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I changed my mind. I was inspecting Datsi and I think my read was misplaced. I was TRing him for a couple of specific posts that looked like crumbs but if I ignore those and look at him as a whole (thanks Koba) I feel like I'm looking at scum. There's not really any drive here. There are some deeply charged posts directed right at me, just like there were in OMB. There's also a lot of suspicion being cast around at just about anyone.

VOTE: T3
The stuff you’re saying about him makes sense though

i find it kind of odd that you're lowkey sheepng aristeia on t3 when she's pretty adamant in saying you're scum? do you have any opinion on that?

I feel like she raises valuable point against T3 and wanted to see how she responded to me voting there
ngl, not exactly a fan of what I saw

I noticed this post 630 and it didnt feel right. His explanation is that he was sheeping her because she had a good point and wanted to see how Aristea would react, and that he wasnt a fan of what he saw. Initially I was TRing Datsi for this post. When I do the work though, there is nothing Aristea says or does in reaction to Datsi's vote. She makes 2 posts, both in response to Datisi. Neither address his vote. There's been no reaction. This feels like the classic "It was just a RT and I got something out of it (I swear)" that scum is wont to say when challenged on a suspicious play. I think he's just making it up.

I also think he's been softing something that is not vig, which is why I'm asking for massclaim today. Specifically I want Datsi to claim, but I didnt want to rouse his suspicion.

There's another post of his that I'm inclined to believe is likely wine specifically for me:

What’s the case for Margot again
I pretty much have had my entire perception of her vanish into thin air

He knows that I know that this is exactly the kind of post scum!Gamma makes about his partner. There's a possibility Margot has a more useful PR than IV and that Gamma and Margot worked together to counter Margot's wagon, and that it ended up with a town-led IV wagon. It's also possible that Margot is a victim of circumstance here and scum!Gamma would have made this post about any towny with a wagon to WIFOM me. I intend to review Margot more deeply should Datsi flip scum.

For now, I want to lim here, and I want a claim
VOTE: Datsi

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Just did some light rereading to understand 806 better as I'm fairly confident Datsi is scum and am wondering whether Margot is town or scum.

Updates from page 13 to bottom of page 17 (These take me a while, and I have a meeting to get to in half an hour, so can’t finish. Apologies)

Kyo:

382 makes me like her better. A lot of the justifications comning out of this aren’t necessarily justifications I buy, but the post comes across as Townier than other slots. The Mewtaph meta stuff is very interesting. Feel like the Datsi stuff might be correlating for the sake of correlating though.

Aristeia:

I like this slot a little less. 383 is a wild reason to FoS datsi. Don’t know what to make of it; I don’t like Datsi either, but reading NM and Datsi as scum because NM was read as null, with his posting 2 (3 at a stretch) genuine content posts before this one, seems very strange.

In the case of both of the above, I don't think it would change anything necessarily. They are both Null still, but these are just things that I'm keeping an eye on.

As I've explained previously, Dwlee is now in my sum reads. But, to bring it home;

InnocentVillager:

I haaaaaate everything from 395 to 416. Me aside, the fact that Salsa and Datisi are the only other scum reads, despite everything in the preceding pages, blows my mind. Mind is further blown by the Town reads on Dwlee, mewtaph and gamma, all of whom, at least up until this point, have been scummy as shit. It reads so much like scum jumping in with no idea of the game state and throwing reads around based on the first few pages.

May switch vote after reqarding the rest of the thread and working out where the votes are atm

I started around here. This is the readslist that is soon to be followed by Margot E-1ing IV. I figured the wagon on Margot would start around here but it actually doesnt come for a while.

i'm a bit busy for the next 4-5 hours so i'll properly read and respond to all the posts then (i've skimmed a bit), but i wanted to out a hot take in the meantime:

iv is likely scum. the fact that he hasn't returned from his catching up yet from yesterday (and that catchup was like 5 pages with non-explained reads? lol) is indicative that he doesn't want to be in this game. and as much as it pains me to say, if iv is red, aristeia is somewhat likely to be a partner. mainly because her reads seem to be kind of consensus-y/yeetbaity players, but there's absolutely no mention of iv anywhere, who i think would fit that description rn. her last game with me made me think she's anti bus, so i could see her be trying to divert attention from iv here.

553 is around where the IV wagon takes off. Datisi starts a push, followed by Roden, Aristea, T3, and Margot. I think from context that at the time of 553, Dwlee and Datisi were already voting IV.

VOTE: innocentvillager

you are so silly datisi

if you want me to vote iv you need but ask

VOTE: iv

i would do anything for you

VOTE: innocentvillager

VOTE: InnocentVillager

That's e-1. What's your role?

Margot puts IV to E-1. The request for a claim doesn't feel natural but from what I understand Margot is not neurotypical and I'm willing to chock the tone up to that.

i'm a bit busy for the next 4-5 hours so i'll properly read and respond to all the posts then (i've skimmed a bit), but i wanted to out a hot take in the meantime:

iv is likely scum. the fact that he hasn't returned from his catching up yet from yesterday (and that catchup was like 5 pages with non-explained reads? lol) is indicative that he doesn't want to be in this game. and as much as it pains me to say, if iv is red, aristeia is somewhat likely to be a partner. mainly because her reads seem to be kind of consensus-y/yeetbaity players, but there's absolutely no mention of iv anywhere, who i think would fit that description rn. her last game with me made me think she's anti bus, so i could see her be trying to divert attention from iv here.

okay this is the basis for my push?

Datisi idk wtf ur doing here I hope you don’t actually believe this

I have been playing this game for less than 24 hours phoneposting and I am like 20+ pages behind or whatever

Granted the late start was my fault but I don’t see how You could think I’m just scum here

My catch was done in the middle of the workday which I don’t really have a real break I’m taking time out to play this

If you MUST know what I was doing last night I am with my partner celebrating a holiday and I don’t really want to be playing mafiascum during that

Was I seriously about to die because I hadn’t posted for like 16 hours?? Hello what the fuck Datisi? And how did people agree with that?

I swear dogshit like this makes me want to go back into hiatus I don’t have like 2 hours every day to devote to this and I shouldn’t have to explain myself every time I go away for a very reasonable amount of time

Datisi you are scum here trying to push a fast one on me while I am still in catchup more or town doing idk what maybe trying to tilt me into this. like I’d like to think Town gou isn’t this bad how can you possibly show so much confidence in this read just based on that. I hope you have a great explanation for this or I am vote parking you the rest of the game

actually one of the most ridiculous flashwagons I have seen in my life

Margot is also scum here or needs to go back to Newbie queue for intentionally putting me at E1 this early on AND asking for a claim especially with NM in the game but maybe not even

I will put a little bit of time into this tonight but if I’m going to get killed because im not poring over this for hours a day like cmon that’s just ridiculous

But looking at this post, IV singles out 2 people: Datisi and Margot. He probably spends about 80% of his post focused on Datisi and 20 on Margot. While Datisi has the more substantive read and Margot's vote is clearly easy to push as scummy, IV chooses to focus Datisi. This is something that indicates to me that possibly Margot is scum, because of how IV treated her in comparison to Datisi, who seems to be town.

I was very clear about why I don't like IV. I wanted a claim out of them. Maybe e-1 wasn't the best idea in the world, but it actually got them talking, and (albeit briefly) actually got pressure mounting. Which only works if people maintain it, rather than backing off.

I've been very clear that I need data to read, because I have not been playing on this site for long enough, nor am I nearly neurotypical enough to effectively read tone in an online forum. I'm genuinely annoyed that everyone backed off there so easily, and honestly frustrated that suddenly everyone is town reading someone who has been well described as scummy, by me and others.

Honestly more concerned at everyone backing off as acting in a way I'd consider scummy right now.

these are Margot's reactions to the counter push on her. She doesnt name any names here, and I dont think she follows up with anyone that backed down (Dwlee, as Roden is IC and cant be pushed).

To be clear, I'm not frustrated that people are FoS'ing me. I'm frustrated that people seem so resistant to getting a player up against a wall d1

Also at this point I hadn't noticed any FoS except maybe from IV, and again, Margot does not name names.

Updates from page 13 to bottom of page 17 (These take me a while, and I have a meeting to get to in half an hour, so can’t finish. Apologies)

Kyo:

382 makes me like her better. A lot of the justifications comning out of this aren’t necessarily justifications I buy, but the post comes across as Townier than other slots. The Mewtaph meta stuff is very interesting. Feel like the Datsi stuff might be correlating for the sake of correlating though.

Aristeia:

I like this slot a little less. 383 is a wild reason to FoS datsi. Don’t know what to make of it; I don’t like Datsi either, but reading NM and Datsi as scum because NM was read as null, with his posting 2 (3 at a stretch) genuine content posts before this one, seems very strange.

In the case of both of the above, I don't think it would change anything necessarily. They are both Null still, but these are just things that I'm keeping an eye on.

As I've explained previously, Dwlee is now in my sum reads. But, to bring it home;

InnocentVillager:

I haaaaaate everything from 395 to 416. Me aside, the fact that Salsa and Datisi are the only other scum reads, despite everything in the preceding pages, blows my mind. Mind is further blown by the Town reads on Dwlee, mewtaph and gamma, all of whom, at least up until this point, have been scummy as shit. It reads so much like scum jumping in with no idea of the game state and throwing reads around based on the first few pages.

May switch vote after reqarding the rest of the thread and working out where the votes are atm

I feel pretty good about this post rn (minus calling me and dwlee scummy)

I grabbed this because it was the last time Gamma interacted with or mentioned Margot before the 806 post.

just some brief thoughts i had on my skim

townlean i guess

T3 - I remember meta'ing this guy back in DEFCON mafia but i feel like he's way different now this doesn't resemble either his town or scum game. Guy doesn't care he's posting every thought and just vibing. which is kind of what i do as scum sometimes too but i don't think it's something most ppl do. Being open about feeling disconnected from the game feels +town and i some of his content looks bad on the surface but he doesn't give a fuck and i think some of his takes were reasonable. The "mindmeld" with salsa post felt real and i think the excitement was genuine idk that was kinda townpingy i guess. flashvote on me was bad but he could just be trigger happy.

north of null

kyouko - anyone who proactively and early does a meta dive scumcase that clearly laid out with no bullshit can be a townlean, unless it's someone who i know can put in the effort as scum like datisi. maybe kyouko's a good scum player too so idk but fine keeping that slot around for now. i feel meh about trusting these kinds of tells because i think they tend to be mean-reverting more than ppl expect but i like the spirit

datsi - concise and nonpostury takes are very non-lamist. i think scum!gamma might be more lamisty and wordy which is the vibe i got from him in LN something

mew - idk i take back the faker comparison he seems to be very open about his thoughts and is very willing to explain everything he's thinking which is a plus - maybe he's scum good at faking this kind of stuff even under pressure tho idk seems redeemable at least

idk

datisi - i honestly have no idea on datisi nothing he's done makes me think town or scum. push on me was bad but i can see it from scum him too. sorry dayteezee i know u are good at getting ppl to townread you but not me yet. i feel like as i keep interacting with you ill get a better sense for your alignment

salsa - i get a T3/unabombah vibe from this slot very spammy and ico style catchup lol. granted una was scum in the game im thinking of but vibe here is very frazzled. idk i can't really put into words here yet but meh.

dwlee - i think some of their earlier posting was fine and reminiscent of our recent game but i wasn't exactly trying to read dwlee there so idk this reread dwlee didn't stand out like at all. idk

I feel like IV is treating Salsa's catchup and Gamma's catchup differently. I also kinda think town!Gamma is more verbose so I'm suspicious of the TR, considering Salsa does not get one.

VOTE: margot

VOTE: MargotRosa

Yeah I'm kind of not up for waiting 24-48 hrs just for 786 and 787 again.

2 quick votes appear for Margot near the top of a page. Gamma hasn't posted since near the end of 2 pages prior. He has either been reading the previous page without commenting, and decided that Margot votes were worth commenting on, or he checked the thread, read everything since his last post, and decided none of the last page was worth responding to, but that the Margot votes were.

What’s the case for Margot again
I pretty much have had my entire perception of her vanish into thin air

The problem I'm having with what he chose to respond to is that IV directed a question straight at him and he ignored it. He also didnt respond after he commented on Margot. Then, IV directs yet another post at Gamma and Gamma still does not respond. IV also makes no indication he is bothered by Gamma not responding to his first question, in fact he treats him rather cordially. Here are the 2 posts. I think the scumteam has agreed to bus IV and Gamma got concerned that Margot was getting pressure, so they had Margot make that wall post condemning IV since he was essentially a dead man walking already.

The posts:

Also, his read on me is like, honestly the biggest towntell I can pinpoint, my play here is literally the antithesis of the game he’s comparing to where I was scum, so regardless of your read on me IV should be obvious town

can you explain this? why is iv town for noticing a difference in your play between the two games?

It’s the way he noticed it, I feel like there’s ways he could have spun it to not TR me for it, so unless he’s literally trying to pocket me specifically I think he’s just town

honestly i don't really get it either

what specifically do you think scum!me does differently if i have to bullshit a read on you?

What’s the case for Margot again
I pretty much have had my entire perception of her vanish into thin air

basically the E1 and direct ask for claim at that point was rolefishy, opportunistic, unnecessary and therefore bad

i could totally see someone just outing their role and claiming there

also for how much she complained about pressure alleviating on me where the fuck is she to put more pressure on me?

not trying to be a hypocrite so this part comes with a grain of salt but it’s been 3 days since the flashwagon and she’s barely been here, does she really care about this

meh it’s mostly about the Claim I just want an answer to at this point. Less that I actually think she’s like lockscum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE: going to unvote as I dont want him sitting on E-1 before a chance to claim, but vote is on Datsi in spirit

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^Because Chaos is off wagon and is in the PoE. I dont think Datisi is scum but Chaos could be if I'm off-base.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The purpose of 1540 was to examine 806 better and determine whether that was a post Gamma makes about his partner or about a townie that he is trying to create associatives with. This is a general response to what has transpired since - will respond to most posts individually as well as there seems to be a bit to unpack and I either missed some posts or misread some posts last night

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think the scumteam has agreed to bus IV and Gamma got concerned that Margot was getting pressure, so they had Margot make that wall post condemning IV since he was essentially a dead man walking already.

I strongly disagree with this take

When Margot posts her "case" on IV at 1192

The VC prior to her dropping that case on him, the VC is

6 votes for T3 (e-1) - NM had just voted for T3 putting him at E-1 (moving his vote from IV to T3)
3 votes for IV

At this point IV himself had not yet voted for T3

He could easily hammer T3 at this point with survival as the excuse.

IV was definitely NOT a dead man walking.

Her case at 1192 made it 6-4 and then Roden unvoted T3 to make the danger of T3 getting elimmed disappear and signaled he would switch his vote to IV in the future which he later does.

Okay yeah all this is correct, going to look back at why I thought the timing was different

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So when I was saying Margot made that wallpost condemningIV I was talking about the "throw the book in his face" post in the 1100s, which is nowhere near 806, so I just completely messed up the timeline on that. I dont think Margot was bussing there. Maybe I saw this post, forgot to quote it or something, I was pretty tired last night, but I think I was definitely referring to the book in the face post. So that wasnt coordinated. I think it seems likely 806 is just a false associative left for me.

I've read through again. Here's my stance.

I stand by my Mewtaph and IV scum reads. I asked for a claim because that is my understanding about what happens at e-1. I didn't specifically angle for IV to be killed n1, but if they were, that would have been fine with me, because I think they are scum, and given the setup is not revealed, the claim would likely not have meant anything anyway.

I still think T3 is likely not scum. I also Town Read the heck out of Datisi. I think the fact that Mewtaph and IV both voted for me is pretty scum indicative in my book, and I'm feeling more and more confident that I've solved two of the scum roles.

This is especially given the fact that all of IV's reasons for voting back at me are bizarre when you actually stop and think about it for five seconds. Like, asking for a claim is scum indicative? Trying to vote out someone you think is scum is scum indicative? What isn't scum indicative in your book IV? Anyone voting for anyone is scum. Is the only Townie in this game N_M?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

With respect to why I almost certainly overreacted after my e-1 on IV, I was responding to the following posts, which are varying shades of 'that looks scummy'.

I was honestly more frustrated that people were backing off the wagon completely, and was probably avoiding blaming myself for it.

Sooo that flashwagon happened and I'm reading IV as pretty hard town after that.

fun fact, that is the third time someone called me Darius on this site
also stop it

VOTE: InnocentVillager

That's e-1. What's your role?

i usually hate using the word, but this actually feels a bit opportunistic, especially with n_m in game. were you suddenly fine with ending the day?

VOTE: innocentvillager

VOTE: InnocentVillager

That's e-1. What's your role?

Explain please....

i need to go eat, i'll read the rest later

first thought is that there's scum on iv's wagon regardless of his own alignment, but i'll see later

Sooo that flashwagon happened and I'm reading IV as pretty hard town after that.

Yeah same, I think it's TvT between

iv

and

Datisi

.
What do you think about

T3

and

MR

's vote on

iv

? I'm always paranoid about

T3

,

MR

's putting them E-1 not liking it, on the other hand

Aris

also vote

iv

which I don’t know if it’s buss or not.... My brain will explode anytime soon!

Sooo that flashwagon happened and I'm reading IV as pretty hard town after that.

Yeah same, I think it's TvT between

iv

and

Datisi

.
What do you think about

T3

and

MR

's vote on

iv

? I'm always paranoid about

T3

,

MR

's putting them E-1 not liking it, on the other hand

Aris

also vote

iv

which I don’t know if it’s buss or not.... My brain will explode anytime soon!

MR's vote is a lot worse than T3's.

Between 564 (E-1) and 612 (concerned people backing off is scummy) I was looking for unvotes/moved votes, because of "backing off" and didnt notice any of these posts you quoted, so 612 makes a lot more sense to me now with context.

I mentioned Dwlee and Roden as people that backed down between those posts because of their posts here:

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Aristeia
Okay so like IV wack but also

What is happening

So I didnt see any follow up on scum!Dwlee and found that suspicious, but I see you weren't talking about him now.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also don;t quite understand whether you are scum reading either just me, or datsi and me. At various points in your post you seem to jump between the two.

On first brush, other than what I said above, I think that if you want to chalk the whole thing up to theatre, then surely IV spending less time defending against my push, but focussing on Datsi's should take suspicion off of me?

At various points in your post, which I had some trouble following, you seem to be going in multiple directions, and basically weave a story about a wagon on Town nearly succeeding but ultimately being derailed by a wagon pushed heavily by Scum on another Scum because of the theatricality which plays out one way, but then plays out in a different way, in which Scum focussing their attention on a player A is scummy for A, but also Scum giving very little time to player A is also scummy for A.

May I also point out that, the d1 wagon on Town player which I played a big part in derailing got up and succeeded again the following day, which I was explicitly against on d2

It was never just you, the post as a whole was meant to examine you in the context of a Datsi/IV team and see if you fit as a third, because 806 is the type of post that datsi makes about his scumbuddies. However, he knows I am aware of this tell and as scum he might intentionally make this post about a townie in order to create a false associative that I would definitely notice. The reason the story weaves is because at times you look like you can make sense as a partner and at other times you don't. I'm seeing from your and Aristeia's replies though that the posts I thought could implicate you are not scum-indicative, and that I made errors in reading.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also re 1545, IV spent more time focusing on Datisi (NOT Datsi) and less time on you, in a specific post. I think Datisi is town, so seeing a difference between IV's treatment of you and Datisi is +scum for you, but this could again be a false associative as the evidence comes from a post that IV makes, rather than something you did.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So your theory relies on, likely just me, unilaterally deciding to actively support a wagon on IV twice, when neither IV nor myself were in danger of being eliminated, and indeed when I was actually creating pressure to put on myself. It also selectively picks out posts to make Datsi look scummy, but only in the world of your theory in which Scum is bussing their team member, a Scum PR no less (irrespective of how useful the PR actually was), for basically no reason.

I don't see how it makes any sense at all, and honestly almost makes me want to reconsider your slot, just by virtue of how odd I find that argument.

1540 is not my Datsi case. That is the post where I am reading along checking if you are teamed with Datsi/IV, or a victim of circumstance. That's why it looks like I'm selecting posts that make Datsi look scummy. My read on Datsi is detailed in a prior post where I vote him, 1534.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

In case it's not clear from replies I've concluded Margot is not scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And still want a Datsi claim, and still am voting there in spirit

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don’t feel like D1 happens anywhere close to how it did if datisi and IV are partners
Datisi was like 90% of why IV got pressured as much as he did
I also see the call to claim and am stating I am a VT

VOTE: Datsi
I think E-1 if nobody else has moved

[ssbm_Kyouko]

yeah, it's the scorched earth/crack in the glass post as well as the "off-track" post. I'm the vig. I have no more shots.

I thought Gamma was softing odd-night tracker with the off-track and it would make sense for him to target me because he's been feeling a bit of tension between us lately that's been building up over several games, so he has naturally been suspicious of me lately. With the line in the sand becoming scorched earth, Gamma likes to tell me I'm shit at playing town. I think he did it this game. Anyways, he's referred to this "line in the sand" that I've crossed at some point in the context of a "bad townplay" line, and I assumed that he tracked me to N_M and was crumbing in his own nasty way that the N_M shot was so shit I've scorched the earth with my townplay lmao.

Here are the 3 posts:

UNVOTE: mewtaph
Enough people are saying I’m off-track and I liked his attempt to dial back that failed to launch

So there’s two things I kinda have come to expect from kyouko when she’s town. The first is that she carries this sort of dumbfuck energy where she kinda barrels along with whatever her thought process is, here I don’t sense that and instead she feels more calculated. The other is that she has this inexplicable hate-boner for me, but here she’s only really had a flaccid “I’ll sort him later” stance that progressed to scumleaning me only after I started wanting her head.
And being clear Kyouko, if this offends you,

good

, tbh. You seem dedicated to relish in mediocrity with your towngame so I’m working to account for that. If you don’t want me to read you this way in the future,

shape the fuck up

. This is also a bit of a personal issue because I feel like you’ve decided to stand on the wrong side of a very important line in the sand. You’ll have the chance to redeem yourself but until that opportunity properly arises you’re basically in Super Bad Player Jail.

By the way. The sand has become scorched earth, now the line is a crack in the glass.

Gamma even confirms that the third post is directed at me, and I crumb back that I shot N_M:

By the way. The sand has become scorched earth, now the line is a crack in the glass.

Is this at me and if so what does it mean?

Yes it’s @ you
No I’m not clarifying further.

I think you're saying I have transcended badtown territory into hellish town territory tbh, stooping to N_M levels of play

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Probably because as scum it was meant to trick me into thinking he was a tracker that knows I'm the vig, so how is he going to explain himself voting conftown if he acknowledges that now?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I glazed over your posts after the VT claim - I initially did think you were town off of it, and it was too early to tell, but I saw I definitely misread it upon rereading, hence the original vote.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kinda feel like it is just Datsi +1 of Salsa/Chaos, maaaaaybe Datisi if he's a trooky tanuki deepwolf. My TR on Chaos is based in individual posts so maybe it's incorrect. POE just takes us there I think, assuming Datsi flips scum.

As long as we just all keep our eyes on Datisi POE wins this no matter what.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm... I'm kinda baffled by the Gamma flip. I dont think we should massclaim at this point because it's possible that whatever stopped the kill is still able to stop more kills. Massing now would just put a target on the protective.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Feels safe to assume a protective saved Enchant but I guess I'll wait for check-ins to see if we have a JK/RB soft guilty

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean if someone

wants

to claim because they think it helps gamestate, by all means, claim. But I think forcing claims out of everyone right now is not correct and probably results in a PR faking VT if they're protective, and if the killer was blocked, then I'm sure someone will claim that when they check in

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I get the feeling from rereading (reading Datisi in ISO on D1 with the mod) that Datisi's interactions with IV on D1 were the kind scum has with a dead weight partner. I feel like there are several posts that look to be saying "you'd better play this game or I'm going to bus you for towncred." Conversely, when I examine Margot and Aristeia, I feel like their suspicions of IV are much more natural and genuine. There is even a time where Datisi "shitposts" (his own words) complaining sarcastically about "why couldn't [IV] have been TRed after scum!me pushed him (as a buddy) in 2175?"

Like the theatre has gone so well that Datisi can't resist adding this. I feel like Datisi is the most likely IV partner at the table. As deadline of D1 approached, after the T3 wagon he was on stalled, he tried to start wagons on both Dwlee and me. I was voting Dwlee and Datisi joined me, then shortly after he swapped around and joined Datsi in voting me. It seems weird to go from voting with me on my vanity wagon so close to deadline to voting me with Gamma on Gamma's vanity wagon. If he was really looking for consolidation, I don't think joining a vanity wagon is the play. I feel like he was looking for alternatives to IV who could easily have become the default information elim for D1 due to the large focus on him D1.

I feel like the reason he ended up on IV in the first place is, his pushes on townies were not panning out. When he first voted IV it was just "this is always a good vote." Then he quickly swapped elsewhere (T3, if memory serves me), and only came back to IV after Dwlee started pushing him because "IV no post." Then, as the wagon died down, he expressed how he might have been wrong on IV, and his next act was to check in on Aristeia's readslist and ask why IV is at the bottom. From the outside, it seems like Aristeia would be by far the easiest townie at the table for scum!Datisi to pocket. It's not impossible they are S/S but it seems very unlikely.

I think Datisi was obviously rolefishing when he kept pushing me as hard as he did to explain my Datsi TR. From scum!his perspective, it would look like Datsi had FNed me, or like I had tracked Datsi to N_M and deduced he was the vig, or like I had copped Datsi (and for some reason decided to draw a lot of attention to myself to claim an inno lmao). I think town keeps their mouth shut in that situation and lets it ride another day, especially if they think it's possible I'm an alignment cop.

As for a possible Datisi partner, I am still working on it. Right now I would say Chaos, simply.because I'm removing Aristea and Margot from POE due to their conviction on IV. I actually arrived at Datisi's ISO because I strongly suspected Chaos, and was looking for his partner, but this feels more correct.

I also dont think Chaos would come in pushing Salsa if they are partnered, though I dont like the lack of mention of Chaos in IV's posts.

I'll still be examining everyone else as Datisi partners but Datisi/Chaos seems correct

I'll start here VOTE: Datisi

Salsa, if you're town, please learn from last time and unvote. Like Enchant was saying, you have a 50% shot at hitting scum today, assuming you're town. Dont throw it away.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Continuing @Salsa, you dont even need to have good reads to have a good chance at hitting scum toDay. We dont gain anything from seeing you flip green.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think I've played with Enchant 3 times not counting this game, 2 he was scum and 1 town. When he was town he had decent reads iirc so I'm curious as to what he comes up with

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If it's Aristeia (I don't think it is), who would her partner be here?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm gonna unvote until I've fact-checked - my case came from an ISO read so I could have some events out of context from memory

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I feel like from the way things have gone since I posted my Datisi case we have good partner interactions to go off of.

Datisi really only makes sense with one player now I think, and that's Chaos. Everyone else is quick to jump on board when Datisi has what the hivemind seems to say is a bad reaction. That's the narrative everyone is pushing right now. "Datisi is scum because he's overreacted to Kyouko's 1 vote." This is either true or it's being perpetuated by scum.

The one (non-conftown) person who isn't pushing this narrative is Chaos, in fact he slides right over it and "gets back to datisi" on his question about Salsa partners. It feels a bit scripted, like Chaos was just playing his part, doing what he was "supposed to" - he clearly missed a tonal shift in the gamestate and I feel like this lack of awareness is scum!indicative. The way I see it we will branch one of two ways from a Chaos flip:

Town!Chaos: He was the only sensible partner to Datisi, so Datisi is soft cleared until a scum is found. If aristea is flipped and found to be scum, there's a possibility she and Datisi have theatred this game hard from D1 and Datisi comes back on the table. Otherwise he remains clear. Top suspects are Salsa and MR.

Scum!Chaos: Datisi has to go next due to the mutual lack of meaningful interactions between these slots, combined with what has transpired since my case was posted. If Datisi then flips town, Salsa is likely town from the Chaos push, and the last scum is in {Margot, Aristea}

I am concerned about what will happen tomorrow if Datisi is miseliminated as town. I would prefer to start at Chaos and go from there based on his alignment, especially after what's gone down in the past few pages.

VOTE: ChaosOmega

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Strike through is the part of the case that I don't vibe with the reasoning because of those arent lies, those are just estimations, but the WIM shown from examining timestamps like that is just obvtown imo. I know I never do that as scum, and very rarely will I do it as town.

Oh I'm glad I found this while examining Margot for crumbs.

If Chaos is town, Salsa is next - this loses only to Aristea/Datisi team.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

votecount 4.3

MargotRosa (2) :

Datisi - Salsabil Faria

Datisi (1) :

MargotRosa

Salsabil Faria (1) :

ChaosOmega

ChaosOmega (1) :

ssbm_Kyouko

Not voting (2) Enchant - Aristeia

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to executed someone, day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-10-25 14:49:19)

announcements

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flavor

To fall for such a little thing – a bite of bread.

Ah yes, day 2

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Chaos>Salsa/Datisi is still the best path I think, where town!Chaos means Salsa is next, and scum!Chaos means Datisi next. Again, this only loses to Aristea/Datisi as a team. Otherwise we either win or go to final 3 of Salsa/Datisi, Aristea, and MargotRosa (assuming scum kill the conftowns).

Let's say for arguments sake we've reached one of those final 3s.

Scum!Chaos/Town!Datisi: Salsa, Aristea, MargotRosa
Town!Chaos/Scum!Salsa: Datisi, Aristea, MargotRosa

Who is the last scum in both these situations and why? Open question to all.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Maybe Margot should just claim actually, as tomorrow is ELO if we miss today, or MELO if she is a protective that is able to stop a kill. Either way, best to have the claim out before then just in case I think. Too .any reasonable possibilities right now to hold that claim.

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^Too many* reasonable possibilities

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I am also getting feelings of Salsa/Chaos as I was writing my open question to all. Chaos being unwilling to engage anything other than "Salsa is scum" feels odd to me, and could be going for the F3 win over either Datisi or Aristea

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If Salsa is town I still have the dilemma of whether you or Datisi are scum

Chaos>Salsa/Datisi is still the best path I think, where town!Chaos means Salsa is next, and scum!Chaos means Datisi next. Again, this only loses to Aristea/Datisi as a team. Otherwise we either win or go to final 3 of Salsa/Datisi, Aristea, and MargotRosa (assuming scum kill the conftowns).

Let's say for arguments sake we've reached one of those final 3s.

Scum!Chaos/Town!Datisi: Salsa, Aristea, MargotRosa

Town!Chaos/Scum!Salsa: Datisi, Aristea, MargotRosa

Who is the last scum in both these situations and why? Open question to all.

Bolded seems to be your POV. Which of Datisi/Aristea is more likely Salsa's partner, and why?

It looks to me like you're bussing Salsa and planning to play in F3 with Datisi/Aristea, Margot, and yourself, or possibly you're partnered with Margot but this seems less likely.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like I saw you said Datisi because of recent posting but I dont understand the thought process

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not getting that vibe off Datisi and I'm looking for it. I dont think any of the recent arguments are semantics, especially the NAI thing, as it's an important distinction to make. Like asking for reasons, I think that is an attempt to sort alignment. Believable reasoning will appear town. Those that cant justify what they're saying are revealed to be scummy. If everyone can justify their posts, it becomes more likely from an outside perspective, like mine or Enchant's, that Datisi is scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

nyeh!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

hmm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

something like bulletproof and sitting on this info for shits and giggles

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think he's saying he's not happy, not that you aren't BP

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Did you crumb Margot?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

actually doesn't matter, scum could assume vig exists from their finder so crumbs are meaningless

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Margot, your only gate is Backup? You have unlimited shots once the Vigilante dies?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I do think the way Margot discussed her role on D1 is in line with a town backup (anything), so it's somewhat more believable. By that I mean, how she said she would reveal her role for the info later. Usually this is something an informed claims, but a backup can glean some info from their role generally. And no need to claim it after the Finder flip. however, scum!Margot would know that IV would flip Cop-Finder Vigilante-Finder, which brings credence to a Backup Vig claim. This would be something scum has to gain by bussing D1. Basically I just don't want the claim to be taken as gospel should we make it to a final 3 with Margot in it because Enchant and I will be dead by then

[ssbm_Kyouko]

IC-Finder/Vigilante-Finder. Cop Finder was in Large 236 which I was in that recently ended

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I need to know if there are any other backups in the setup for scientific reasons

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And Enchant, you're not a Backup IC, right? You would have been revealed whether or not Roden died before D3?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ok

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So Enchant, Chaos have claimed and are not backups.
Datisi and Salsa have posted and are not backups.
Margot claims backup vig.

I need to know from Aristeia if she's a backup

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wow i just scumslipped...
... Wait...

I'm not a Vigilante, I'm a JOAT. I stopped the Enchant kill. I've confirmed that despite my role being JOAT that for the purposes of "Finder" and "Backup" roles, I count as a Vigilante. The reasoning is that JOAT is just shorthand for "Town 1-Shot Vigilante 1-shot X 1-shot Y etc...", so technically I count as all of the roles I have 1-shot access to. My theory is that this setup could be balanced if scum has a backup role that inherits one or more of my other (non-vigilante) powers when I die.

I wanted to know if town had another backup because if so I would expect that scum inherits 2 of my powers and town inherits the other 2. In this case, it's possible scum and town each inherit one power, assuming Margot is not lying.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oh quoted Enchant because I was excited someone had scumslipped, then I remembered he's IC. I just woke up.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm a Jack of All Trades. I have 4 1-shot powers.
1-shot Vigilante
1-shot [unnamed protective role that stopped a kill on Enchant last Night]
2 more other 1-shot role(s) that I have not claimed

I realize I've already slipped I have at least 4 powers by outing that I thought it was possible that scum and town could each inherit 2 powers, so I may as well come out and say that yes I do have 4 powers

[ssbm_Kyouko]

kyo, do you genuinely believe that
2 ic's
a 4-power joat who is also conftown since they have a vig shot

and a backup vig that becomes full vig once scum does the MECHANICALLY CORRECT PLAY and shoots the joat

are all town???

No, but I'm trying to decide if it's ethical to ask the mod to confirm if a backup of an x-shot would receive the remaining shots. I think the most likely explanation is that Margot is fakeclaiming and read from the Universal Backup wiki rather than the Backup, because the Backup doesn't have any mention of how X-shot roles work. Just taking my time here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Margot's partner is almost definitely Ari, just go back through Ari's ISO and Ctrl+F "Margot".

gg, drive home safe.

I want so badly for this to be correct because it means they both just violently bussed IV for no discernable reason, unless Margot/Aristeia is just a Mafia Universal Backup and they knew one of them would inherit the Vigilante/IC finder and they'd both be unlikely to get vigged.

Let's face it, if T3 had died over IV, it would be reasonable to assume a Vig would shoot IV, and scum would lose a result. By bussing IV a Mafia UB would get a result N1.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sounds like Backups dont inherit modifiers, which includes X-Shot.

Margot is definitely scum, waiting to vote until I've had time to dig for partners. Putting her in self-hammer range is a scumclaim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh she is in self-hammer range, can one of Datisi/Salsa/Chaos unvote?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This day reminds me of D1 of this mini where town whirlwinds accusations around, we build wagons, nobody seems correct, then scum just falls in my lap right before deadline. Not building wagons this time as we're close to ELO but feels like I've considered everyone but Enchant toDay

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I feel like it can be assumed that if Margot had waited for assistance in claiming, no matter who her partner was, he/she would have caught the error. Maybe Salsa doesn't catch it, idk. Not going to read too much into it because it is also possible Margot has slipped on purpose to make an experienced partner seem less likely to be partnered with Margot because he/she would have caught that mistake.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I dont have time to dig right now and rather than hold us all up I'll vote soon so long as Enchant isn't working on something to post toDay. I assume one of us will die and maybe he is holding his tongue for now to give less info for scum to use to choose between us

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Margot

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What a game

Gj everyone, was fun to spectate that after dying. Thanks Gypyx for modding and thanks Koba for replacing into ELO like that!