I hope she is alright IRL, I'm hesitant to turbo push her for lurking again since it's known she is lurking for IRL reasons.
I hope so too. I only asked where she was and did not suggest a turbo push. This is sus.
I know you didn't suggest it, but I turbo pushed her for lurking before. What is this shade throw...
And how am I supposed to know that? I don’t remember playing with you. How exactly is this shade?
I said it was suspicious you implied I was going to push her for only asking where she was?
VOTE: Unvote
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
What sounds fake? My explanation? Lol smh. Are you scum?
The apology. I was in a hurry as I was getting ready for work.
Okay, so don’t apologize. Like what?
Your apology sounded fake. Often scum can’t genuinely apologize so I voted you.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 3188, ItalianoVD wrote:I wanted to get to the Scorpious wagon, but Day 2 was Day 2 and now Day 3 is on me, but I’m at least content in knowing that this a direction Malcolm is going. It was a bad wagon period.
I think this is a stretch. I thought Scorpious was scum when I voted them.
Just because a wagon flips town doesn’t mean the wagon is bad as a whole.
I disagree. Scorpious was a fatigue elimination. For me that’s a poor excuse given we had time to not vote there. I’m convinced the other wagons didn’t push through because of scum interference. I wanna give you the benefit doubt here given that you’ve been working and whatnot, I know that can be stressful, but your responses to questions and comments have been less than ideal when I’m reading.
You were responding pretty flippantly when discussing said Scorpious wagon with Malcolm. Like if your town you should wanna cover every area of the gamestate. I’m trying to find a good reason why you’d wanna look elsewhere than vca on a major wagon in this game and I can’t find one.
Almost like I am not crafting responses to be ideal and instead being honest.
I don’t see how I am responding flippantly. I said I had already analyzed it and found it contradictory but I encouraged him to look. I am looking elsewhere because when I do it I get flipped town is scum which is a logical contradiction. When I look at why Andres did the kill I get contradictions. So I am trying to focus on play itself.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
For example I see you and a JV team and I don’t like how JV is sidelining this. I’d like if JV asked more questions.
I think HEM and Italiano or HEM and Kitty are most likely
But I can’t shake the deep wolf vibe I feel and I don’t know if either qualifies or I am just paranoid.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 3218, MathBlade wrote:For example I see you and a JV team and I don’t like how JV is sidelining this. I’d like if JV asked more questions.
How in the living fuck do you call me sidelining?
Because you are.
You’re doing flashy things but conversations are passing you by.
You’re not posting any thoughts regarding the current conversation.
Claiming backup vigilante is flashy.
Claiming a fake guilty on HEM is flashy.
But you’re almost universally TR’d. I want to see you use that in a protown way if you’re town.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3222 (isolation #205) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:06 pm
Postby MathBlade »
I am kinda wait and see on Kitty. I don’t know how much is language or you’re scummy because scum.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3234 (isolation #206) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:54 pm
Postby MathBlade »
I want to pretty much light this entire page on fire because of all the scumminess.
Roden’s reactions do not remind me of their towngame at all. They were much more calm and collected.
Malcolm’s post looks like he’s chaining up miselims and just feels ewww
JV’s intentionally making people look worse and at the same time wondering why the hell I find their laid back play scummy and then has the gumption to argue that I should just shut up and like it anyway
Then gamma doesn’t comment on any of it and complains…
Like all of this is just bad.
I am nauseous af and it’s critical role night but I wish everyone would flip but me.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3247 (isolation #207) » Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:21 am
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3236, Gamma Emerald wrote:I'm kinda out of it, I had a bit of a personal epiphany this evening
Which is?
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3248 (isolation #208) » Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:22 am
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3237, Malakittens wrote:i found out my dad's mom's brother passed away this morning.
i found myself thinking about old times
so not really in the mood 2night
I claim infinite shot good friend hugger activated on request.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3249 (isolation #209) » Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:23 am
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3238, Roden wrote:Kinda surreal to read that I'm apparently coming off as much less calm and collected than usual when I had an actual emotional breakdown in my last town game.
The only town game I remember of yours is where I shot you N1 when I was essentially soloing it as scum. You seemed more casey and such.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 3230, MalcolmTucker wrote:Re your points in 3220 Kitty - I get that Scorpious/Jackson going for Koopa may have seemed weird but it'd have so illogical and baffling for two mafia to both go on the same role-claimed player bandwagon. It was clearly never going to pick up and I'm struggling to believe you wouldn't have been able to see that at all.
My general point is here that you pushed Scorpious in particular without ever considering whether their play was too illogical or lazy for a clever mafia player trying to get of trouble. If Scorpious is mafia then fine, but the fact they were town clearly indicates you here to an extent - I ultimately don't know your alignment and to me it looks like you strongly pushed two townies because you spotted some holes in their play and saw it as a convenient thing to do.
I also think it's quite possible you/Math could be a team if HEM doesn't come back as mafia. You're defending Math and Math is very hedgy on you in 3222 as well.
I wouldn't have thought town would have made that play either, which is what I was trying to tell you. You can't blame me for pushing someone for being outrageously scummy.
Again, mafia can make mistakes too. Yes I spotted some holes and pushed them but that's because I thought they were scum at the time.
I know I am sus if Math is scum, but I am happy locktowning Math RN.
Ewwww why? Don’t get me wrong I am town but why am I locktown?
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 3234, MathBlade wrote:I want to pretty much light this entire page on fire because of all the scumminess.
Roden’s reactions do not remind me of their towngame at all. They were much more calm and collected.
Malcolm’s post looks like he’s chaining up miselims and just feels ewww
JV’s intentionally making people look worse and at the same time wondering why the hell I find their laid back play scummy and then has the gumption to argue that I should just shut up and like it anyway
Then gamma doesn’t comment on any of it and complains…
Like all of this is just bad.
I am nauseous af and it’s critical role night but I wish everyone would flip but me.
If everyone is scummy to you maybe stop complaining about it and consider that your view on scumminess is possibly just plain wrong.
Lol no. My definition is not wrong. Thanks though.
Town players can be scummy. I just wish less were. You yourself admitted you were being scummy earlier.
I am really getting paranoid JV.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3265 (isolation #213) » Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:42 pm
Postby MathBlade »
VOTE: JV
Someone want to explain why JV is town?
I see zero desire to solve, back off a claim to potentially miselim HEM when it picked up steam, vote sitting on a random person, deliberately makes people look scummy and discussed it with Italiano but then when I bring it up it’s like “I don’t recall”.
He’s just vote sitting Malcolm and then doesn’t explain why when asked multiple times.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3272 (isolation #214) » Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:07 pm
Postby MathBlade »
VOTE: Unvote
Town by virtue of assholery.
I asked JV because I have done the same thing before.
Made myself obvTown then other players were always “better kills”.
So doing my due diligence is smart.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 3230, MalcolmTucker wrote:I get that Scorpious/Jackson going for Koopa may have seemed weird but it'd have so illogical and baffling for two mafia to both go on the same role-claimed player bandwagon.
To clarify, I did that to make them look worse so they don't get shot rather than me particularly thinking they were scum but that also merged with my visceral repulsion of their play-style.
I am referring to here btw by intentionally scummy and you admitted it btw
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3275 (isolation #216) » Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:12 pm
Postby MathBlade »
I will respond to your other questions when I don’t want to throw my phone across the room but the jist is some people read players and others read gamestate and others read relationships. I am more the latter so any stilted relationship flags for me
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 3230, MalcolmTucker wrote:I get that Scorpious/Jackson going for Koopa may have seemed weird but it'd have so illogical and baffling for two mafia to both go on the same role-claimed player bandwagon.
To clarify, I did that to make them look worse so they don't get shot rather than me particularly thinking they were scum but that also merged with my visceral repulsion of their play-style.
I am referring to here btw by intentionally scummy and you admitted it btw
That is not claiming to be intentionally scummy nor is it at all. I was intentionally faking my read on them for the benefit of the town, nowhere did I claim it was scummy to do so.
Intentionally faking reads = scummy.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3283 (isolation #218) » Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:20 pm
Postby MathBlade »
You said you intentionally faked a read.
By definition that’s scummy.
Are we reading the same things here?
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3287 (isolation #219) » Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:23 pm
Postby MathBlade »
Jackson: “To clarify, I did that
[faked a scumread on Koopa] to make them look worse so they don't get shot rather than me particularly thinking they [Koopa] were scum but that also merged with my visceral repulsion of their play-style.”
Like?? [] are me adding context from a prior quote.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3291 (isolation #220) » Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:25 pm
Postby MathBlade »
Like ..I don’t get it. Town can have good reasons to be scummy but not calling it scummy is gaslighty AF.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 3287, MathBlade wrote:Jackson: “To clarify, I did that
[faked a scumread on Koopa] to make them look worse so they don't get shot rather than me particularly thinking they [Koopa] were scum but that also merged with my visceral repulsion of their play-style.”
Like?? [] are me adding context from a prior quote.
So not wanting a PR claim to die is scummy?
Of course not.
How you went about it was scummy though as it denies us the chance to read you as I have to figure out what is fake versus real. And if I find something is it “oh I had a good reason” every time?
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3295 (isolation #222) » Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:28 pm
Postby MathBlade »
I am going to step away because I am very tempted to tunnel JV over objections here. Like JV feels really slimy.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3399 (isolation #223) » Mon May 02, 2022 3:06 am
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3356, MalcolmTucker wrote:For me the team is now Kitty-HEM, with Math potentially as backup choice but I may have been reaching there on D3 with my reads. HEM was essentially able to ride out that turn but basically just came back without reading the game again to eliminate another townie.
I tried Kitty D1 and D2 but nothing. In retrospect I imagine someone else perhaps took on the kill, I'd just reckoned at the time Kitty may have been more likely to carry it out than someone like yourself for example.
I tried Math D3 out of interest but nothing there either. Should have probably gone for you in retrospect but ah well, happy with eliminating either you or Kitty this turn at the moment unless I can somehow be convinced of an alternative wagon on someone who's received less attention.
Yeah this is incredibly suspicious.
I don’t see why you wouldn’t have waited or pushed for any remaining PRs to claim and use it like a check of sorts.
Let’s say you’re town here
Then you intentionally simple cop checked Kitty N1 (will have to see if that makes sense based on reads). There’s no way you believed Kitty was the target so you’d have to believe Kitty was the person doing the killing. So Kitty either A> Didnt do the kill or B > Is a PR
There was a death N1 and Andres flipped goon which would have been caught by your simple JK.
Why on N2 would you pick the same target again?
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
What makes you look at the voting patterns so far and make you think I am mafia? Why do I sit off both the Scorpious and Italiano wagon, making a strong defence for both? I was defending Jackson as town from as soon as they made their claim because it should have been pretty obvious in retrospect that they were town. If you are town you should be looking at Kitty or HEM here, unless you have an alternative idea at all.
It’s actually pretty difficult here to look at voting patterns alone. We need a scum narrative. I could paint almost anyone as scum based on votes.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
A simple jailkeeper in a world where a gunsmith and tracker already exists and then claiming preemptively with a dash of shade. nope not suspicious at all.
'
We've had multiple preemptive claims this game. A claim when I'm on E-2 is not preemptive. I'll be busy at points today, how am I meant to guarantee I'm not automatically eliminated without a chance to claim or assert my case?
It very much is. You’d need to look at who is on and who is off. That was way too early for a claim if you’re towb
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
you are a simple jailkeeper in a world where here had already been two investigatives
you had 2 days straight clear of KittyTacky, and they're still your top suspect
you think i'm scum because i hammered two townies, and i forced your claim — even though you preemptively claimed
What makes you look at the voting patterns so far and make you think I am mafia? Why do I sit off both the Scorpious and Italiano wagon, making a strong defence for both? I was defending Jackson as town from as soon as they made their claim because it should have been pretty obvious in retrospect that they were town. If you are town you should be looking at Kitty or HEM here, unless you have an alternative idea at all.
Because I think you're a deep wolf. Your play is way too squeaky clean to still be alive. Sitting off both mis-elim wagons and claiming to have defended them doesn't mean much if they still get voted out, it just means you don't take any blame for the wagon. And honestly I don't think it makes any sense from a town perspective to confidently town read either of them, there were plenty of reasons to doubt that they'd flip green. And besides that, town casing someone and putting actual effort into trying to stop a mis-elim are two completely different things. You did the former but I don't remember you actively trying to stop people from voting out your town reads.
Additionally, why would scum kill JV? I town read him too, but he offered anti-town utility with his role and had a generally abrasive tone/attitude that made people want to vote him. The NK just seems like a basic "kill the PRs" NK, but he wasn't confirmed and he didn't have any actual power. And the scum team clearly believed we had an actual Vig (hence why Andres tried to claim Vig instead of Doc), so why didn't they go PR hunting or at least try to kill consensus town reads?
Also, if you think the voting patterns are alignment indicative, then why aren't you suspicious of Gamma? He was also on both mis-elim wagons.
Agreed on all of this. Like 100%
VOTE: Malcolm
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3403 (isolation #227) » Mon May 02, 2022 3:17 am
Postby MathBlade »
Me + JV would have possibly been a shit fight for pages. I don’t think scum kill a backup vigilante here especially if Roden’s theory of a rolecop is true.
I can’t wrap my head around Malcolm possibly being town here.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3422 (isolation #228) » Mon May 02, 2022 10:28 am
Postby MathBlade »
My eyes are blurring together at the big walls of text. I will check this late tonight after work.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 1535, JacksonVirgo wrote:I think you assuming that just because you are a gunsmith means that a traitor is more likely. Because it is not, what's more likely is it's used as a cop that can RP nwot a ytliug-eslaf role or a Mafia doctor exists, or have it purely as a way to not have super obvious checks similar to how Cop would in a normal. I do not see how you've come to the conclusion of no traitors existing.
I also feel like this is quite a townie post from Jackson here. Presuming Koopa is town if they are making incorrect assumptions about the gamestate mafia has no reason to correct them and inform us to a greater extent that this may be incorrect. Also - while it's not impossible, I'm not sure mafia are as likely to casually speculate in this thread on what roles will be in the game when they have more info than the rest of us.
In post 1680, MalcolmTucker wrote:JV pointed out Koopa may be wrong re how they perceive the role alignments available in the game, I don't think mafia does that and it gives him some town points from me. If Koopa is wrong on this, why correct them? If they're right, seems risky to try a misdirect for available roles in the game.
In post 1703, MalcolmTucker wrote:Jackson's claim seems reasonable, insisted this morning their post about Koopa potentially reading the roles then was very townie and incredibly unlikely to come from mafia given the circumstances. Will read back for reactions to see how that was pushed in a while.
Since towntells were mentioned, here I am pointing out on D1 that Jackson's claim was likely townie on the basis that they had pointed out incorrect assumptions being made by Koopa. There isn't much need for mafia to do this - it would have been beneficial for mafia to let doubt fester about Jackson's role in the game. But because I'm town, and because I thought Jackson's claim was fundamentally town, I pointed that out.
How does this relate at all to me asking you why Kitty twice?
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post #3476 (isolation #230) » Mon May 02, 2022 2:41 pm
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3405, MalcolmTucker wrote:The presumption on me being mafia here is essentially based on the idea that I've spent all game literally doing things that are the antithesis of being beneficial to the mafia because it makes me look more like a townie. I get that can be a helpful approach for a while but it only tends to work for so long. And when there are other roles in the game that can potentially reveal your identity anyway it would have been possible for all my work to be undone anyway if I'd been mafia playing that way. It doesn't make sense.
I know wagons alone do not tell a player's allegiance but fundamentally it is quite remarkable I'm currently under more suspicion than HEM who has now twice hammered townies and Kitty who continually and almost exclusively pushed players who turned out to be town.
?? That may be someone else’s point but that’s not mine.
Mine is that your PR play and day play makes you very likely scum.
I for the life of me, cannot figure out why you Jailkeep Kitty twice. It just seems like a fake claim but you don’t want to give clears.
Brb dinner
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3477 (isolation #231) » Mon May 02, 2022 3:01 pm
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3405, MalcolmTucker wrote:The presumption on me being mafia here is essentially based on the idea that I've spent all game literally doing things that are the antithesis of being beneficial to the mafia because it makes me look more like a townie. I get that can be a helpful approach for a while but it only tends to work for so long. And when there are other roles in the game that can potentially reveal your identity anyway it would have been possible for all my work to be undone anyway if I'd been mafia playing that way. It doesn't make sense.
I know wagons alone do not tell a player's allegiance but fundamentally it is quite remarkable I'm currently under more suspicion than HEM who has now twice hammered townies and Kitty who continually and almost exclusively pushed players who turned out to be town.
I agree. Kitty and HEM are both someone that I am keeping an eye on.
I just don’t understand your thoughts here at all.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post #3478 (isolation #232) » Mon May 02, 2022 3:02 pm
Postby MathBlade »
Like on a game play level you’ve been tunneling Kitty for what 2 days now I think? You’ve checked Kitty and found she did not kill or is a mafia PR and kept doing that then a second time for what? Like I don’t see where your brain is saying from point A to “omg tunnel Kitty”
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post #3479 (isolation #233) » Mon May 02, 2022 3:03 pm
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3406, MalcolmTucker wrote:Also - as to why I revealed my role, I was on E-2 and knew I was going to be inactive for a good 5/6 hours today because I was busy. I've seen wagons pushed through before more quickly than expected and I was wary that could potentially happen here when it's almost certain there will be two scum on said wagon because this is their best chance to get it down to 3v2.
It's also D3 now and we're getting towards the endgame - my perspective here is that we need to know as many townies as possible in order to try and win the game, and it's better you now know my role.
This feels really premeditated. Like you always were going to claim today.
Like this feels slimy.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3480 (isolation #234) » Mon May 02, 2022 3:05 pm
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3407, MalcolmTucker wrote:Also - without wanting to make myself sound like an idiot, I'm not necessarily that good at this game and wouldn't really feel confident claiming a role so early on if I did not have one - I am inherently a very risk-averse player and would almost inevitably not pursue such a gambit until I was on the verge of going out. If I'm mafia I would still have a teammate who based on gameplay would still have a chance of winning; if I'm lying, you can see there's nobody blatantly pushing me here who is likely to be my teammate as some sort of bold attempt at a feint.
Even my checks are inherently honest when you think about it given my suspicions and reads so far. I continue to suspect Kitty given my reads on them so far that they are scum and did not make the kills; why would I admit that I jailed Kitty TWICE without success if I was scum wanting to paint them as being likely mafia? It wouldn't make any sense.
This is why I don’t believe you’re town either.
It doesn’t make sense as either alignment and Occam’s Razor is scum fake claim giving as little info as possible (mainly Kitty probably green if you flip red) than anything else.
You’re making big long arguments over why you’re town but not investing nearly the same effort into who scum is.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post #3481 (isolation #235) » Mon May 02, 2022 3:08 pm
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3412, MalcolmTucker wrote:Only issue with a Kitty/Math team would be they'd have to have been incredibly lucky with their kill choices to avoid being jailed.
This feels like TMI that scum are low power or just blatant stretch/lie.
I literally argued that Kitty quite easily could just be scum PR and the jailkeep doesn’t work.
You read the post then apparently just ignored it?
I mean granted I am not scum but we’ve only seen Andres flip goon.
If you’re town surely scum have something to counteract the claims here right?
I feel like you’re trying to ride the PR coast train versus thinking about what you’re saying.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
For example I see you and a JV team and I don’t like how JV is sidelining this. I’d like if JV asked more questions.
I think HEM and Italiano or HEM and Kitty are most likely
But I can’t shake the deep wolf vibe I feel and I don’t know if either qualifies or I am just paranoid.
Math - where are you on this? You stated you thought HEM/Kitty was a possibility if Italiano was not scum. JV, your other suspect, is now gone, and HEM/Kitty have been caught sitting on yet another town bandwagon with HEM hammering for the second time. Does HEM/Kitty not look more viable to you in that regard?
HEM/Kitty does look viable to me. I just think that you’re scum more than that.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Italiano has seemed suss for some of today but this was their reaction to the Scorpious wagon at the time. I'm not sure how beneficial it would have been for mafia to continue going for a claimed role player when a town wagon was right there...Scorpious was a bit of a rubbish wagon but it seemed reasonable enough at time to plenty that Italiano could have had cover joining it if they are mafia.
The other option is mafia deliberately chose to keep someone off the wagon as a misdirect on D2, before we obviously went for Andre. But if Italiano is faking and staying off the Scorpious wagon, knowing it could give them town-cred, why target NK15 instead? Plenty of other players they could vote for who hadn't claimed at all.
Whether this was for show or not depends on people’s perception. Me saying it wasn’t means absolutely nothing if people already see me as scum because it’s only fmpov. But for you to bring this up makes me feel even stronger about you as town, unless you are white knighting me which isn’t impossible, but this is a good point to bring up.
Here is Italiano - a confirmed townie - TR'ing me for my read of them. They are aware this could be mafia trying to buy credibility, but point out there was generally little self-gain in it for me as well - it was a genuine read on my part because I consistently said the Scorpious wagon was worth looking at.
Your point? JV had a naked unexplained vote on you all day.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
I would say MT green makes HEM and Kitty even more likely.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post #3486 (isolation #239) » Mon May 02, 2022 3:14 pm
Postby MathBlade »
I would say MT red makes HEM probably green. Looking at a TVS or SVT for HEM/Kitty and MT
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3487 (isolation #240) » Mon May 02, 2022 3:16 pm
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3420, MalcolmTucker wrote:Apologise if a lot of my above posts read like a big long and incoherent rant but I think it's important town go back and read through my ISO and that of the players who are accusing me/who I'm accusing here. Ultimately:
- I TR'd Jackson before their claim
- I pointed out Scorpious' play wasn't conductive to mafia
- I made a strong case for why Italiano was town
- HEM has now opportunistically hammered two townies
- Kitty has consistently SR'd townies while ignoring reasons they were town
- I am frankly not good enough to fakeclaim in this situation
- I am not good enough to deep wolf here and continually stay of town bandwagons to clear myself
This reads more like begging not to elim you than a genuine push.
Your posts are coherent but they seem more desperate not me.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post #3488 (isolation #241) » Mon May 02, 2022 3:19 pm
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3423, MalcolmTucker wrote:Also, the argument I've been deep wolfing by TR'ing eliminated townies such as Scorpious and Italiano also doesn't work for a couple more reasons.
My stances were consistent on both players. I expressed some suspicion on Italiano but then very much TR'd them after an ISO check. It's not like I had to do a major reversal of my previous stance. Same for Scorpious: I quizzed them on contradictions in their posts but identified that their playstyle was fundamentally town.
It's not as if either of the two were preordained eliminations either. I've suspected HEM and Kitty who have also been prime suspects. I have voted for both at various points. I've also expressed suspicion in Math. Some of them are necessarily town irrespective of my alignment. Roden's argument I am deep wolfing is predicated on the idea I have been incredibly, incredibly lucky (or unlucky, I guess) with my town townreads constantly being eliminated at the expense of townies I've suspected.
And to add to that - we know Andre was scum and that Andre was incredibly inactive. One scum can sit back and play a deep wolf/town style to a greater degree but I'm not sure this is recommended when one player is inactive - at some point scum ideally need to assert some control of the game.
It’s long been a gripe of players on the site that scum can lurk and win.
Why do you think about what is recommended versus not for scum?
Like I logically comprehend your posts but I don’t understand them.
I feel like brain sausage
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post #3489 (isolation #242) » Mon May 02, 2022 3:20 pm
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3428, humaneatingmonkey wrote:I think you're likely to be today's elim, so I'll just work with you as if you're town mmkay but you have to assume I'm town here otherwise it doesn't work
talk to me about Kitty and Math
I don’t like you outright assuming this.
I think MT is the smart elim right now but that assumption is icky
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3490 (isolation #243) » Mon May 02, 2022 3:26 pm
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3451, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Kitty I share the same read as you do in as much as they're willing to hide behind a fatalistic will that town will never do X. He has been proven wrong with Scorpious but he made the same excuse as Italiano. I can understand that read.
Math, I've been waiting for them to turn online and dominate the game because that's how i experienced them in the large normal, but they never really read the thread. Although, I sympathize because I haven't done that myself.
You mean how I said I wouldn’t do that as I have been putting in lots of OT at work?
You’re literally just making up shit now.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post #3491 (isolation #244) » Mon May 02, 2022 3:28 pm
Postby MathBlade »
VOTE: Unvote
My mood is all y’all can die. I am the serial killer (joke)
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Post
Post #3506 (isolation #245) » Mon May 02, 2022 7:50 pm
Postby MathBlade »
Can’t get lower than zero clears.
I wish I was clear but that’s not how any of this works.
Gamma Roden Who would you shoot if you were one shot dayvigs?
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post #3533 (isolation #246) » Tue May 03, 2022 3:12 am
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3528, Roden wrote:What's fucking with me is that we basically get to unleash three scum-finding PRs all at once on Night 1, yet scum don't have a Roleblocker. In the hands of a less claim-happy town, I don't see how that doesn't steamroll scum.
This is where I am at. I just don’t think Malcolm fits. While it’s technically possible scum have an RB it’s likely they don’t. So I don’t see how simple JK, lazy tracker, odd night gunsmith works on N1.
If scum use a goon to do the kill (as they probably should) then they risk having the killer jailkept.
Odd night gunsmith gets a guilty on the goon and likely others
Lazy tracker shuts off when one scum is caught
Yeah I can’t even fit ascetic or two doctors because ascetics get guiltied by lack of result for Gs / tracker and doctors would be guiltied by tracker unless they visited PR claims.
Like I think Malcolm needs to be the elim and can’t survive until elo.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post #3534 (isolation #247) » Tue May 03, 2022 3:14 am
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3526, humaneatingmonkey wrote:thinking about it, there's no real value in flipping Malcolm today because if we give him another night, either mafia confirms it for us, or we potentially get a block (if mafia aren't prs)
VOTE: Malakittens
I am kinda thinking HEM/Malcolm.
Scum seem to be desperate here
HEM is throwing on the wall practically anything that sticks.
Malcolm votes Kitty despite pushing HEM repeatedly.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 3451, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Kitty I share the same read as you do in as much as they're willing to hide behind a fatalistic will that town will never do X. He has been proven wrong with Scorpious but he made the same excuse as Italiano. I can understand that read.
Math, I've been waiting for them to turn online and dominate the game because that's how i experienced them in the large normal, but they never really read the thread. Although, I sympathize because I haven't done that myself.
You mean how I said I wouldn’t do that as I have been putting in lots of OT at work?
You’re literally just making up shit now.
making what up?
That I am not as domineering/dominating as before. As I said I have RL and can’t be that hyperposter. Roden has seen how I wall post as scum so my speed and lack there of is 100% NAI.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Town by virtue of she’s not dead and no one susses her when sus on her is easy to manufacture.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
My scumcase on you is you’re making small little things to piss people off
I think you know Malcolm isn’t a miselim and you’re elim shopping getting vibes for tomorrow.
You’ve been doing small little things to piss me off to keep me off my game.
It’s like that nagging pin at the back of your brain you just sorta feel it.
(And yes I thought Malcolm and HEM was TVS/SVT I changed my mind with just how much they scumread each other yet don’t push each other)
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post #3543 (isolation #251) » Tue May 03, 2022 3:24 am
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3540, humaneatingmonkey wrote:so am i making it up if it's real and observable? did i say you were scum for it, or did your guilty mind just played madlibs?
The shade is what is made up. You’re reaching for anything to survive.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 3539, MathBlade wrote:Town by virtue of she’s not dead and no one susses her when sus on her is easy to manufacture.
Why is it no Scum by virtue of she's not dead and no one susses her when sus on her is easy to manufacture?
You’re literally just making up shit now.
You just took my explanation and added a why lmfao. I think it’s self explanatory.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 3542, MathBlade wrote:My scumcase on you is you’re making small little things to piss people off
right. the best scum strategy in the history of mafia.
It actually is one of the better ones.
It’s one I have used quite frequently. People expect scum to cooperate and blend in. Just a bit of disagreement seems “natural” then pocket towards bad results.
The more you post 0 level shit the more tempted I am to run you into the ground Malcolm mech spec be damned but that might be what you and Malcolm want.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
Earlier I couldn’t tell if the Ate was town or scum.
Then no one gives a hard push on Mala
Unlike the game she was scum she got sussed in all directions
There’s none of that here.
This means that she’s probably not scum.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 3542, MathBlade wrote:You’ve been doing small little things to piss me off to keep me off my game.
what have i done that has kept you off your game? haters will say you're just making this up.
This is also self explanatory. I have explained how I play the game and form reads in thread, you don’t let me do that. If I list all the ways you’ve annoyed me the game turns toxic but let’s just say I am annoyed and leave that there.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post #3556 (isolation #256) » Tue May 03, 2022 3:34 am
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3551, humaneatingmonkey wrote:i asked for one in D1 and you said you haven't read yet.
and now you are saying you had one all along.
you have no scum case.
That’s not what I said.
I said I have suspected you all game which is correct. I suspected you early D1 fact. I suspect you now fact. Ergo I have been scumreading you all game. Fact.
Why are you deliberatingly saying I don’t have a case?
I am not really a “case” person but you’re pissing me off.
I just don’t get the strategy here.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 1020, MalcolmTucker wrote:I've certainly not spotted any crumbing but maybe just very subtle.
To be fair though. I would not expect a townie to point it out..
Not saying either way on you just saying what I did.
This is why I suspect Malcolm. He highlighted a crumb post and called it a role claim.
This doesn’t do any good when scum could have just missed it.
Instead we have a four alarm fire going “look here”.
Can you go more in depth on the Malcolm read?
I kinda feel HEM Malcolm and Italiano are all scum but they don’t all fit together.
You mean like here? I don’t have time to find the rest but a simple iSO proves what I am saying true.
C’mon dude
I gotta go but I think Gamma/Roden/Mala need to come together and we pick an elim in HEM/Malcolm and I think we’re golden.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post #3560 (isolation #258) » Tue May 03, 2022 3:39 am
Postby MathBlade »
In post 3557, humaneatingmonkey wrote:There's no strategy. You're just scum trying to push little low-hanging fruit me hoping people will sheep you.
"You're not a case person" but in that other game, you went to town on DkKoba and and in that large you have bullied the entire playerlist to bend to your will.
And I have scum games where I have been the vocal leader as well. You’re literally going “math isn’t being loud” when I said I wouldn’t be. Then you’re voting Malcolm yet expending energy on me.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
I gave a short case earlier. I am not a case dude.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade