Mini Normal 2283 - Game Over!

[Frogsterking]

Where is deadline?

[Frogsterking]

With 8 players, it takes 5 to make a decision. Day 3 ends in 0 days, 1 hour, 23 minutes.

Oh shit

[Frogsterking]

My gf dad iw offering me a bowl to smoke lol

[Frogsterking]

Dude we should hit Grub

[Frogsterking]

I'm goonna take his offer on the bowl, sometimes getting crossfaded helps me think

[Frogsterking]

With 8 players, it takes 5 to make a decision. Day 3 ends in 0 days, 1 hour, 23 minutes.

Oh shit

I'm not voting Grib, Aisa is gone, NM is nowhere to be seen so you don't have the numbers for it

Why aren't you voting Grib?

[Frogsterking]

I am hoping they have a town reason for not claiming

This is not the time to hide their role. We're trying to make mechanical plans with a big fat mechanical question mark. How does that help town?

Enchant will you hammer Eira if it gets to it?

elements i've asked you before, what besides me not claiming gives you reason to feel like this?

Why do you worry je you little shit

[Frogsterking]

i'll try to be around but i see little point tbh cos it seems ya'll voting N_M. i'm a bit burned out and honestly discouraged at this point, but whatever

*p-edit: elements i said i'm not votin n_M, just like im not voting u. i just cant frame them as scum, i see no reason for scum to radically disengage from the game start D2 whereas the last macho mason might just say fuck it, or rage as enchant suggested but meh N_M is chill so idk?

I am hoping they have a town reason for not claiming

This is not the time to hide their role. We're trying to make mechanical plans with a big fat mechanical question mark. How does that help town?

Enchant will you hammer Eira if it gets to it?

elements i've asked you before, what besides me not claiming gives you reason to feel like this?

Why do you worry je you little shit

idk what frame of mind you're in but you're not lifting my kilt

I thiugh u were French

[Frogsterking]

It's better ro self hammer than to NL VOTE: Fdog

[Frogsterking]

Frog, just vote NM

Is I'm sorrt i was mean to ykh

[Frogsterking]

I FEEL NM IS REAL MASON BUT FUCK

Yeah i can see it I thinj GriB is a better vote. Maybe Ele,ents + Grib?

[Frogsterking]

I wish it was me and Grib

And u are caught scum? Doesn't mak3 sense

[Frogsterking]

I'm not a gamethrower

[Frogsterking]

Kill grub imo

[Frogsterking]

voting NM isn't gamethrowing

it's the town thing to do

Wa

[Frogsterking]

I xdint beki3ce in policy eliminations

[Frogsterking]

I'm here, who am I voting

Gru

[Frogsterking]

I DOC BELLA

[Frogsterking]

Bellaphant died during the night. She was a

Town Complex Vigilante

I was om Bella

[Frogsterking]

It's better ro self hammer than to NL VOTE: Fdog

I apologize for this FYI. Sort of. I apologize for the drunk posting. Getting stoned and pushing Grib is fair game IMO

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Grib

This ISO is still sus and being this slot can't be killed by any means makes it worse. I think Rolestopper + Roleblocker + Goon vs 5 TPR fits. We were screwed by the massclaim more than the mason sacrifices.

[Frogsterking]

I have a read on Eira but he needs to claim ASAP. I'll wait.

[Frogsterking]

I DOC BELLA

Bellaphant died during the night. She was a

Town Complex Vigilante

I was om Bella

I have a read on Eira but he needs to claim ASAP. I'll wait.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Grib

This ISO is still sus and being this slot can't be killed by any means makes it worse. I think Rolestopper + Roleblocker + Goon vs 5 TPR fits. We were screwed by the massclaim more than the mason sacrifices.

Because it's 5 slots but not 5 TPR, the 3 masons only count for like 1.5 TPR and 2 good scum PRs can match 3.5 TPR

[Frogsterking]

I thought titus/eira were a vt trying to bait the night shot, now that they've claimed joat I could swap one of Grib or Enchant out for Titus.

[Frogsterking]

can JOATs use multiple abilities in the same night?

If they have multi acting yeah. I don't see that very frequently though

[Frogsterking]

JOAT with confirmable night actions e.g. mailman message so at the very least from your perspective Titus has a role if not alignment conformation
the set-up isn't:
3 macho masons + doc + VT VS Roleblocker + JOAT + goon

so there's like no way Titus is scum and Frog town here I don;t think

Come again?

[Frogsterking]

I was considering flipping my read on Grib until his most recent string of posts

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Enchant

Is this distancing or does Grib really want to take down Enchant?

[Frogsterking]

ignore me

You did make me realize though that unless Titus is multiacting they couldn't have rolestopped/roleblocked AND mailed in the same night

[Frogsterking]

Also, I almost got voted out last phase, with Enchant happily encouraging people to vote me. And you think we're buddies?

I was considering that it was distancing yeah

[Frogsterking]

I'm pleasantly surprised that you're this cooperative with someone you scumread by the way, but it is nice.

Scumtell fyi

[Frogsterking]

Was that before or after you got stoned to help you think more clearly?

Touché

[Frogsterking]

Screw you. We would be better position right now, even if Grib somehow not mafia, but no! Let's elim NM, cuz... Why?
Now mafia can choose who they want to kill.

This sounds like a statement which would be more likely to come from partners because Enchant usually isn't rude or whatever and if they were in a PT with Grib then he'd know the "Screw you" was meant for distancing and wasn't personal.

[Frogsterking]

I never change my vote. I refuse to say who i scumread and who I don't. I also will not communicate with anyone else this day, to not give mafia ideas who they shall kill.

I can't help but feel like this is mock anger or scum bravado posted to try and win me over specifically because of this:

I thought titus/eira were a vt trying to bait the night shot, now that they've claimed joat I could swap one of Grib or Enchant out for Titus.

Enchant as scum can read this (and

not

be sleeping) and then be like "If being obstinate caused Frog to Townread Eira, then maybe I can do it now too."

PEdit: speak of the devil

[Frogsterking]

@everyone

Can anyone disprove a Grib/BBT/Enchant team?

[Frogsterking]

what the fuck you even thinked.

Not much, and if it means anything, my heart was in the right place.

[Frogsterking]

Oh, I've totally gone for the following two-step plan as scum in elo before:
1. Be polite
2. Ask a townie to re-evaluate their reads until they overthink themselves into a wrong read

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Enchant

[Frogsterking]

Village played pretty badly, and I’m exiling myself from playing for another year or maybe forever. gg mafia.

That's too bad, if I could draft pick my dream village you would be one of my top picks. Let me explain:

I meant, what peopel have to say about it when I lay out the reasons. But you're right, I don't think I'm going to get much out of waiting.

The problems I have with that vote are

1) it was waaay too early to accuse Firebringer of not wanting to have reads.
2) it was also too early to accuse scum of not wanting to fill out your survey - barely half the game had posted at that time.
3) you didn't explain why scum would or would not interact with your quiz.
4) I purposefully ignored your quiz to see what you would do about it, and you didn't react at all, which makes me think that 2 was complete bull.
5) you townreading me right after that felt appease-y.

I left the thread because how am I--after delivering the best post-high school/non-livechat scum performance of my life--supposed to respond to this?

I guess I'll go ahead and answer it that way, because if that isn't it either then I really can't imagine what you actually want from me.

Individually, they aren't slam-dunk scumtells. They're quirks in his play that actively caught my attention and made me think that he wasn't approaching the game as a villager because of how many wires he tripped (for me). 1 is a BS reason to vote someone period (slightly scummy), 2 is him ruining his own alleged gambit (his read probably isn't genine), 3 is making up a reason to scumread someone (same reason as 2), 4 circles back to 2 and makes it even less of a genuine gambit, and 5 is kind of a classical/general scumtell.

Anyway, turns out Frog is probably just a goofball and was acting out an obscure inside joke? I dunno, I buy it for now.

I had you as a mark at this point because of your temperament. Your willingness to give me a chance despite my dodgy behavior is a sign that you are high in the Agreeableness superfactor of the 5 factor model, which I use exclusively compared to other "personality tests" like the MBTI or the Enneagram, because the 5 factor model is the only model with quantitative evidence that it's

predictive

of future behavior. Agreeableness contains factors like compassion, trust and cooperation. To illustrate what I mean, here is counter example from this game of a situation where your Agreeableness lead you to make an excellent decision:

Despite thinking I'm likely scum you're very happy to follow my vote

I don’t think you are. PoE just makes it really hard for me to see two mafia elsewhere. What does the game look like if we’re both town? And can you answer Aisa, because I have the same question.

I don't think Frog is scum

I'm not enjoying playing with them

:/

I'm not enjoying this game at all tbh, but that's more because it just feels like no matter how I flip my reads, they're all wrong somehow. I think I was better off not playing mafia.

But let's explore some worlds? Say you and I are spontaneous ICs. That leaves:

Aisa
Eiralox
Bellaphant
Enchant
NM
Frog

Bella is the Vig. I have serious doubts about Eira, but Bella supports him, and NM also spoke up for him. I'm making a big assumption there but it seems like Eira might be a townfirmable role? I dunno.

Aisa
Enchant
NM
Frog

I'm going to leave this as our scum pool, to be as generous with our options as possible. There are some factors at play (I think Aisa is town, NM could go either way, Frog claimed a town role), but assuming both of us to be town, this is what we have to work with.

Regardless of both of our alignments, there is guaranteed to be at least one scum in that list, unless the team is exactly Grib/Eira or Elements/Eira, so that seems to be the best place to start.

Aisa Enchant
Aisa NM
Aisa Frog
Enchant NM
Enchant Frog
NM Frog

And then these are all possible teams that include neither of us, Bella, or Eira.

Your willingness to reach out to Elements and cooperate with them lead to you two forming a solid Towncore together, which FMPOV was the last thing I wanted to see Town doing.

So why did Fire die instead of you? You both had my # early in D1. You with your case and Fire with his intuition that something was off.

The four most disagreeable (the reverse/inverse of Agreeableness) players in this game by a landslide were Shea, myself, Fire and Eiralox, roughly in that order. Shea was killed N1 for being a TPR read and that left me, Eiralox and Fire as the players most willing to be a dick (in a tough-minded way) to push our point of view across.

N2, I was anticipating a gamestate where my slot would live or die based on Town's willingness to believe my claim and my own ability to sell it. I didn't want to have to sell my claim to a Town containing Fire who I knew would be willing to be a dick about pushing any inconsistencies in my claim. For example, imagine if Fire had been alive to heckle me during this moment:

I don't want to touch frog yet either. Not because i town read him, because i don't, but because i feel like town is better off waiting.

Shea saw my crumbs D1 IMO. I thought Shea was crumbing Psychologist D1 which is why I saved him N1. I'm not outting my N2 target because they are TPR I think.

Why i don't believe you.

I mean you not telling target of N2.

Do you acknowledge there's living vigilante and you could just saved mafia target (SO THEY KNOW WHO YOU PROTECTED ALREADY) or Vig target?
Unless Vig have gate or choose not shot (WHICH I DOUBT).


I believe real doctor would understand that.

I was already scum frozen by Enchant's catch, it would have been a disaster if Fire were there to fluster me further, as I basically just flailed my way through this moment in the game.

I really couldn't care less what the dead thread thought or didn't think Town should be doing; that was why they were put in the dead thread, to shut them up.

Anyway, the point being that there were some residual clues left through NKA because it telegraphed a scum team who was planning to peddle some BS very soon, because we sacrificed the potential instability Fire can cause to a Towncore by fighting with them in favor of a Towncore who would be more trusting and less skeptical.

In a different game, where scum weren't anticipating a strategy to hide in the PR claims, I think it would be imperative to kill you (Grib) instead of Fire because of your good reads and instincts to consider other's point of view and pull together a Towncore. That's also why I would prefer to have you on my team if I rolled Town because I think you're the kind of player who is inclined to help others who are sinking to instead swim. In this particular game however (where I was scum sided instead of Townsided), your inclination to approach others in that way happened to be used deliberately against you.

[Frogsterking]

@eir, come talk to me, not about me?

This is the second time in a row I've seen you say this to scum on D1 (previous time was red/implosion from Masque.) It seems like you have a good intuition for this?

@sxum, was I chosen for mailman because of the likert score?

It did make you one of the top candidates from the beginning iirc! The word we used to describe you (I think Eiralox came up with it) is considerate. I can pinpoint for you the exact moment in which you were unanimously chosen to become the mailman target:

Random catch up stuff:

I've looked back at hpe and some of the wishy washyness I fel about its reads might be because of its posting style. Im not seeing what I was. I'm not loving the throwing around of votes but again it might be a style thing.

Re: bbt and lost - I was saying that in that game you collected scum reads for some fairly poor reasons, and you were town. A consensus scum read on you is a really easy place for scum to hide. I personally think you get more readable as either alingment the further we go in the game. You played with klick recently as town and he thought you were scum but by mid game I was like 'no, town'.

Re: enchant, nm and eir
I've never read nm as scum when he's town. I'm not getting that here.
Enchant is a slot I wouldn't want to elim today.

Eir I was scum reading because their posts didn't leave an impact on me, but now they've reached out I feel better.