Mini Normal 2288: Reposting Same Picture As Flavor Are Lame

[Andante]

IMA BE LOUD!

IMA BE LOUDER!

[Andante]

VOTE: GamerGryff
Still need that personal PT unlocked

Btw I’d like to make a suggestion for this game: everyone should post a full read list at least once per day phase. You can update when and how you’d like, if you like, but the one list is highly recommended.

tbh that's probably what I was going to end up doing, like "yo here's my current reads, see yall tomorrow"
just gonna let all of you know right now, I will only be around at roughly this time, like 6ish - 10ish mountain time (at night, not 6am lol) (you're welcome, no one uses mountain time, but I do! ha!)
so uhh yeah if any of yall ever want to talk in live time, that's probably your best shot.

not gonna lie, I was half expecting this to start like 6 hours ago, and then I'd be showing up to like 200 posts, but here basically right at day start LETS GOOOOO I'll save the walls for later

(And first readslist probably comes tomorrow tbh)

oh wait one more thing on this actually, sorry I get super distracted. I find it interesting though that your first post is "hey yall I want daily reads lists" it seems odd, like I like seeing what people naturally do, like often if town posts a readslist, and it's the first main one of the game, then scum see it, panic, and post one solely to look towny, it's kinda why I don't start asking for lists from people till later, not post 1 day 1... hmm at first I really liked your post, but now I'm like "wait up.. not actually as towny as I think" and now it's "you're overthinking this.." hahaha ok, moving on. must. keep. reading!

[Andante]

yooo wait, it's not exactly day start.. is everyone alright? its been an hour and a half and we're still on page 1... GOOD MORNING FRIENDS!!! WE HAVE SOME KILLERS AMONG US TO FIND! some of yall be looking kindaaaa sus...
jk I don't acctually think anyone has done anything sus yet, saw among us.. had to...

also, I hate the votes on me, can we find someone else to vote please

[Andante]

VOTE: andante

hi everyone

Yeah, actually, what specifically makes you park your rvs vote on me... could pick gamer, haschel, gamma, or penguin
yet you opted to join the vote on me. Please share why

[Andante]

VOTE: andante

<3

[Andante]

Question, why does this game feel so slow? There's literally only 2 posts I like so far, and the rest of yall are just like "sup I'm here"

I liked gamma going "I had this thought so I figured I'd say it" love that!!
and redFF's post seemed good, a bit of effort put in and I felt like it was trying to help me make sense of the "all should post reads" - yeah when in doubt I go "not AI"


and then we have everyone else.. like yall!!! LET'S PLAY MAFIA!!!! I'm excited!!!
Kowahbunga is probably 1 mafia
this game is too easy!! although... it is a little easier when I have friends talking/doing stuff lol

[Andante]

hi andante remember me

i flash caught scum!you before

lol not gonna lie, I don't even remember the last time I was scum and uhh I don't remember you ._. sorry... hahahah maybe it's time to panic... ahhhhh help!!! I fear Lazy Shirou!
lmao jk, I fear none!

real talk, am I reading too much into Kowahbunga's vote on me? like I kid you not, I feel like it has scum intentions and I'm like deadset on that thought, and like, Kow hasn't said anything else, it's just the vote. usually people who do RVS stick around or whatever

[Andante]

Question, why does this game feel so slow? There's literally only 2 posts I like so far, and the rest of yall are just like "sup I'm here"

I liked gamma going "I had this thought so I figured I'd say it" love that!!
and redFF's post seemed good, a bit of effort put in and I felt like it was trying to help me make sense of the "all should post reads" - yeah when in doubt I go "not AI"


and then we have everyone else.. like yall!!! LET'S PLAY MAFIA!!!! I'm excited!!!
Kowahbunga is probably 1 mafia
this game is too easy!! although... it is a little easier when I have friends talking/doing stuff lol

sup I'm here

hi. can you not vote me please... I have too many votes already!!! I'm gonna get flash voted out again!!!

[Andante]

i'm not doing much of anything in this game until dunno

day 2 or day 3

i'm playing this game lazily and no one can stop i wanna try something since this seems like a more chill playerlist

oh no! but if you get fear killed tonight... I don't get to talk to you!!
(lol but then again, if I get voted out here, I can't talk to... anyone... that's tragic...)

[Andante]

but...wagon...

what if we made a different wagon?
VOTE: Kowabungah

this could be fun!

[Andante]

VOTE: andante

hi everyone

like, yall... anyone want to tell me this is town? Kow votes ME.. and dissapears, there were lots of others being voted! In my opinion, the Penguin wagon could've been more fun to join!! Who doesn't want to vote penguin? but the vote on me... idk who Kow is, but yall I'm so deadset on this being scum, you have no idea...

I literally asked Kow something too, I think Kow is avoiding us... you don't vote, say "hi everyone" then dissapear?? feels like scum forcing an opening post, hoping to fly under the radar

[Andante]

mmm

competing wagons

VOTE: kow

yesss <3

[Andante]

hahaha Gamma, if you want to vote me, go for it

like, sure I don't fully get RVS/ what yall gain from it, but I see no benefit in "oh we need an Andante wagon!" what am I supposed to do? I have a bunch of people not talking, people going "yeah I'm gonna vote andante for reactions!!" like, what freaking reaction do people want? I've been speed voted out before, I hate votes on me, and that's nothing new, no one has told me I'm reading too much into Kow, I think Kow is a great direction to start looking in. just sayin.


hahaha penguin I thought about giving you my vote, then I remembered I hate messing with my vote, so ehhh Kow can keep it lol

[Andante]

VOTE: andante

hi everyone

Yeah, actually, what specifically makes you park your rvs vote on me... could pick gamer, haschel, gamma, or penguin
yet you opted to join the vote on me. Please share why

I decided pre-game I would vote the first person voted, I'm not sorry it was you.

HELLO! Great timing!
hmm interesting, so what are your thoughts on me now then?

[Andante]

lol not gonna lie, I don't even remember the last time I was scum and uhh I don't remember you ._.

Subject: Mini Normal 2256

Hey what about the Gypx wagon tho

Andante scum claimed

Where exactly did this happen?

through all her ISO

almost on every post

yes i'm posting this to pretend to be good and sheepable later

please and thank you

oh... *that* game... lmaooo I have blocked that one out of my memory, but hey if you wanna take all the cred, go for it! Shiro the professional! but you said you weren't doing anything day 1, so who am I supposed to sheep now?

[Andante]

i'll be back to post gifs at some point

Penguin... you reading this? I think you have some competition... Shirou gonna make a better gif list later?

[Andante]

gg gottem!!
VOTE: Gamma

[Andante]

ok nah, I'm not doing that lol I actually think gamma seems fine tbh

VOTE: Kowabungah

probably leaving my vote here for tonight, I don't have a reason to not vote Kow, I didn't like that pop in, again felt like "I'm here but not actually going to give any thoughts on the actual game, just here to say something before I get a full wagon on me"

people talking though?? yaaasss!!!
and I so hope we get to see Penguin vs. Shirou battle of the gifs!!!

alright, I'm off for tonight, might actually pop in tomorrow morning, idk, it's gonna be COLD out.. hahahaha love the cold... perfect running weather!
I'm thinking I might need to condense posts tomorrow, or yall might get annoyed at me :/ sorry!! I just have a bunch of thoughts, post, then more come to mind... ok, goodnight! lets not vote anyone out before I'm back, thanks

[Andante]

lol gerain!! don't let Penguin stop you from voting if you want to vote!
That's honestly the only thing for you I'm like "what??" right now

and for everyone else, I think gerain seems fine for now, like they're actually here and talking, my memory of scum!gerain is literally just "day 1 is stupid I'll do something later" "not enough info on day 2 yet"

what I"m more interested in is Kow.... not doing anything except talking about my reaction there? and how I'm over reacting, like dude, I've literally gotten speed limmed like 24 hours into a day before (you can go find the normal game where I was macho vig) and limmed very early on in a newbie game, literally just go pick any of my past games and ISO me/see where I have votes on me, like you're making this giant deal over this?? but like, you're not doing anything else?
Kow, the "dissapearing"? yeah I'm used to fast paced games, so, sorry if that bothers you, it's just how I am, literally why I hate RVS, it's like wasting time, I find something decent to push, I run with it (Like running with scissors tbh) and we see where it goes, my followers on this Kow vote though, there was a post I saw I was like "what??" I can't recall it right now, and whoever was like "ahh there's an actual wagon!! too many votes!!" like, it should be fine, I feel like everyone here knows to not hammer an e-1, if it actually gets close, people will unvote, but this "pressure" on Kow? has resulted in.... Kow just "ANDANTE MAFIA!" and that's like the biggest takeaway I think I gather.

Kow, can you please give some thoughts on literally anyone else/anything else happening in the game?


uhhh I'm probably missing something but I think those are my main takeaways, don't have much time right now, but figured I needed to show up again lol I hate catch up game!! If I missed anyone asking me anything (and this is like an all game thing) just requote it/ yell at me, cause I get very focussed on random stuff as I'm reading, like yall's gamer!maf stuff? idk, I don't recall any gamer posts, I'm more focussed on Kow stuff, and I'm confused why we're pushing gerain, like when has anyone ever known gerain to be a super scumhunter day 1?? (no offense there!!) oh! and gerain unvoting after penguin said something, seems odd to me. Penguin is looking mighty towny!!! I don't actually think anyone else is town yet lol most yall just chilling in null, has everyone even checked in yet? I can't think of the like 13 other people... later problem!!! lmaoo

ok, that was my ~15 minutes of free time I had, tbh a bunch of nothing but yolo. This was mostly to see if I needed to flip my vote, but like, Kow is giving nothing sooo I'm leaving it, Tomorrow is my bday so I have to get a bunch of stuff done tonight, so I really shouldn't be here much tonight (but we all know I'll spend way too much time here.... ahhhhh)

any questions for me, just yell!!

(sorry for the long post, but it was either this, or a million 1 line posts from my phone, on the bus tbh)

[Andante]

@PP

91

we got good traction on

gamer

me no want unvote

What's the reasoning for a gamer vote?

[Andante]

I'll be straightforward:

In 123, you said nobody can give off a real scum ping in D1 to

Gamer

.

Later with 151, you agreed with

Herta

that it's easier to catch you as scum earlier.

You followed that up 152 with ending the day quickly and placed a vote.

This reads as deflective because you're comfortable with getting a pass for now off the basis of a real scum ping on you, but you're fine with eliminating another player without that.

The mismatch in expectation gave me pause.

like, you're voting Gamer because of 91? so sheeping gerain? then this post you're like "idk about you gerain" and now it's "I like the traction!!!!" like what? I'm not really following

[Andante]

(ok, I seriously have to go now, but Taly, I will respond to you when I'm back, I may have just missed something, but I'm confused right now)

[Andante]

happy bday

andante

how do you feel about the votes on

gamer

?

-

pedit

seems we're on the same page

<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">

@PP

91<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"><br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">we got good traction on

gamer

me no want unvote<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">

<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">What's the reasoning for a gamer vote?

I agree with

Gamer's

philosophy that a lot of noise can make it difficult to sort D1 and in reflection for later dayphases, but this and coupled with the indifference to

Kowabungah

wagon without really asserting a stance or push gave me "active but coasting" vibe.

So that gave me "I wanna poke" vibe.

Also, I was voting

Gamer

prior to

Geraint

, so it's never accurate to describe my vote as sheeping here.

thankss

idk much about the gamer votes, I haven't looked into who is voting gamer/why, I just figured I'd ask you for the case since you feel so strongly that it's a good wagon
see, I'm still confused, you SR gerain and gamer, but you like the gamer voters? gerain was literally one of them? like, when I see:

we got good traction on gamer me no want unvote

I think like "oh, there's a solid case, all the strong voices agree" (usually not on d1)

so I guess I can rephrase, what about this "traction" is so good you don't want to unvote?

[Andante]

lol gerain!! don't let Penguin stop you from voting if you want to vote!
That's honestly the only thing for you I'm like "what??" right now

and for everyone else, I think gerain seems fine for now, like they're actually here and talking, my memory of scum!gerain is literally just "day 1 is stupid I'll do something later" "not enough info on day 2 yet"

what I"m more interested in is Kow.... not doing anything except talking about my reaction there? and how I'm over reacting, like dude, I've literally gotten speed limmed like 24 hours into a day before (you can go find the normal game where I was macho vig) and limmed very early on in a newbie game, literally just go pick any of my past games and ISO me/see where I have votes on me, like you're making this giant deal over this?? but like, you're not doing anything else?
Kow, the "dissapearing"? yeah I'm used to fast paced games, so, sorry if that bothers you, it's just how I am, literally why I hate RVS, it's like wasting time, I find something decent to push, I run with it (Like running with scissors tbh) and we see where it goes, my followers on this Kow vote though, there was a post I saw I was like "what??" I can't recall it right now, and whoever was like "ahh there's an actual wagon!! too many votes!!" like, it should be fine, I feel like everyone here knows to not hammer an e-1, if it actually gets close, people will unvote, but this "pressure" on Kow? has resulted in.... Kow just "ANDANTE MAFIA!" and that's like the biggest takeaway I think I gather.

Kow, can you please give some thoughts on literally anyone else/anything else happening in the game?


uhhh I'm probably missing something but I think those are my main takeaways, don't have much time right now,

but figured I needed to show up again

lol I hate catch up game!! If I missed anyone asking me anything (and this is like an all game thing) just requote it/ yell at me, cause I get very focussed on random stuff as I'm reading, like yall's gamer!maf stuff? idk, I don't recall any gamer posts, I'm more focussed on Kow stuff, and I'm confused why we're pushing gerain, like when has anyone ever known gerain to be a super scumhunter day 1?? (no offense there!!) oh! and gerain unvoting after penguin said something, seems odd to me. Penguin is looking mighty towny!!! I don't actually think anyone else is town yet lol most yall just chilling in null, has everyone even checked in yet? I can't think of the like 13 other people... later problem!!! lmaoo

ok, that was my ~15 minutes of free time I had, tbh a bunch of nothing but yolo.

This was mostly to see if I needed to flip my vote

, but like, Kow is giving nothing sooo I'm leaving it, Tomorrow is my bday so I have to get a bunch of stuff done tonight, so I really shouldn't be here much tonight (but we all know I'll spend way too much time here.... ahhhhh)

any questions for me, just yell!!

(sorry for the long post, but it was either this, or a million 1 line posts from my phone, on the bus tbh)

Firstly, happy birthday! I hope you have a fantastic day.

Down to business (bolded within the post above), why did you feel the NEED to show up? You were well within your allowed time?

More interesting though is your need to flip your vote, was it essential or very important to do in this moment? What was your determining factor to switch your vote in this instance?

thank you!!!!
I always feel the need to show up lol also as I said above, I'm unsure about my activity here tonight, I have a bunch of work to get done, and then tomorrow night is my bday, so if I didn't pop in before the bus, or before class now, I'd be prod dodging whenever that happens, and then I'd be very behind, and catch up mode is way less fun then "WHAT UP BESTIES!!!?!??! I MISSED YALL!!! IT HAS BEEN LIKE 36 HOURS SINCE I LAST SPOKE TO YALL!!! I'VE BEEN LONELY!!!"
It's not like I have an alarm on my phone "MUST post!" it was a lot more of "well, site was down last night, I try to check in daily, so it only makes sense to pop in and say hi"
that was way too many words for "why did you feel the NEED to show up" lmaooo like, I feel like it's just nice for people to try and check in daily... idk, I also just love mafia!! like, if you're away too long you miss the clues, and questions you have kinda become irrelevant, yeah idk, ok, moving on! lmaoo

uhhh I mean, anytime I show up it's like
1) Who am I voting (not gonna lie, I forget half the time)
2) What have they done since I've last been here (I learned that it helps to read their interactions with others, instead of being tunneled in the moment)
3) What is the votecount looking like/why are the others now voting who I am voting?
4) Do I need to unvote to avoid someone speed hammering? (My vote has been used before in random lims, so I'm cautious)
5) If I see no reason to unvote, it can stay.

that's roughly the thought process, not sure why my vote comment really stood out to you, I don't do RVS, my vote goes on a SR (and sometimes a joke vote/for lols if I'm around) so yes, I'm very cautious about it. My reads could be dead wrong all game, but if I can help it, I prefer my vote to go where I'm certain scum is, I try to be as objective as possible. I mean, do you not think about the person you're voting? when you show up after being gone 24+ hours?

(lol I couldn't stay away from yall if I could stay here in this game instead of classes later... that would be fun!!!)

[Andante]

Later with 151, you agreed with

Herta

that it's easier to catch you as scum earlier.

no, i said the exact opposite. i believe i am easy to spot a scum in the late game, but i suggest that someone checks me over tonight so we avoid all that because people have found me hard to play against as scum for some reason and i want to not have that happen this game

I’m confused

whenever gerain is scum, (I think this only happened 1 game, but still) in scum chat they go "crap. Andante is here" (or something close) so if we can have someone look at scum chat, if you see that line, gerain confirmed scum! easy game!!

I'm not sure what you're confused about there lol it's gerain going "this is very clearly not my scum game" although the asking to be checked? We know this is a complex setup, so is this like gunsmiths and all mafia doctors? so if GS checks gerain, there's an inno?

(lol tldr: this became a tangent to gerain's post)

[Andante]

lets just eliminate kow y'all im pretty sure he scumslipped in RVS and his longer posts read like flailing

I'm definitely not against a Kow lim lol, although it would be nice to hear Kow's thoughts on literally anyone but me before that happens

[Andante]

Oh, and just to be smug, if y'all kill me this early and see I'm town, all you're doing is proving my point about stupidly rushing into things.

Y'all seem to like rushing things. I prefer a methodical approach. Every time I rush into things it ends in disaster. This is no different.

See, I'm not a fan of just rushing lims, I'm a fan of rushing more of the "playing the game" instead of people showing up every 48 hours to say a few lines, it's like, come on, talk!
If you are town, please.. just step back, it'll be ok. We're not voting out no one, we're not rushing a lim.

Like, for me at least, yeh I'm tunneled on Kow scum, I'm well aware of it, but hey, if Kow started doing something other than yelling "Andante's personality makes her scum!!!" I'd unvote lol

I'm just unsure of these past 2 "wild side, I don't care" type posts from you, like, they're not exactly helping, I don't SR you right now, but if you want a SR, keep these up, when I have the time, I can really sit down and think about where I stand with you, but hey, I don't, but please, just calm down, we got this, but "just to be smug" like really? that's not helpful fam, but I'm sure you know that

[Andante]

It's precisely the fact we don't know the setup that is why we shouldn't waste lives unless we're sure. We may not have many to go around. Assuming with a setup this big there's at least three scum that gives us three days of wrong lims max before they win. And that's assuming there's only one enemy faction. For all we know there could be two mobs or a third party with an agenda against our own.

You do realize this is a normal game right? With normal rules for games? it's not like a wild large theme game

[Andante]

hmmmmm rvs vote, then disappeared? frozen scum scared to post!!! GG GOTTEM! Game too easy!

VOTE: Haschel

[Andante]

AYYYYOOOOO I KNOW YALL MISSED ME! I have returned! I believe I'm caught up and 2 things I've noted.

1. Kow has not done anything, even after a bunch of yall were like "what about literally anyone else"
I understand being tunneled on someone, I've been there before, however I'm not getting why Kow refuses to give thoughts elsewhere, like, Kow, say you get your way and I'm voted out here, I flip green, then what? Then you find someone else to just tunnel? I'm not seeing the town mindset, there, but like it's really hard for me to look at someone tunneling me and go "yeah town" like, I'm trying my best to just ignore at this point tbh, but seeing how others asked my very same question, and didn't even get a response? like, that doesn't seem like Kow is even trying to scumhunt here

2. Hey Haschel, you planning on playing the game? or prod dodging every 48 hours? Normally when someone says "diving in now" they follow that up with some thoughts

I think my best course of action here is gonna be to write out thoughts on all yall, then rank yall, and that'll be my reads tbh

[Andante]

TOP OF THE PAGE! LEGGOOO

[Andante]

i just wanna say my thoughts + or - and leave it at that

+ or -? like Andante + Andante = Andante
MATHS!

[Andante]

andante feels so green that it's like she's an entire forest by herself

it's kinda a meta tell tho so not impossible she's just blowing her previous "scum range"

what exactly do you TR about what I've done so far?

[Andante]

also uhhh idk if this is a hot take or anything, but I started ISOing peeps, to work on what my actual reads are, well it started as not ISO, but trying to go "quick, gth, what do I think" I had no thoughts for most, so I've turned to ISOs, I'm like 6 posts in to Brickwall, and I'm pretty confident brick isn't town. When I'm done I'll share my thoughts, but like, so far Brick, it's not looking amazing

[Andante]

literally everything²

i said everything in your iso was scum indicative in that other game

i think rn almost everything in your iso is town indicative

completely and utterly different vibes

my unique hesitance towards you is that maybe you didn't feel like playing scum back then but do now for mood reasons, or etc

mmmk, see, I feel like I haven't even dropped anything amazing yet, but then again it's probably cause I'm pretty unsure of most reads, I just had to question how you're so confident I'm town, and like, I don't think I've seen any other reads from you?

I. Can. Not. Be. Pocketed!

roughly what are your current reads looking like? like, who's leaning town/scum for you?

[Andante]

1. Brickwalll
- Commented on the reads-list “argument” in 70, but rereading it, it’s mehh to me like, it feels like you’re commenting on it more cause you feel like you have to, since everyone else was, rather than commenting to give your thoughts – not sure I really like 70
- To follow 70, in 106 you quote where Penguin accidentally said your name but then instantly corrected it, I’m starting to get the feeling these posts are “hey I’m here! Look I’m town!”
- 107 so you’re quoting Gamma who is quoting Gryff, and you go “I don’t like Gryff’s post” that post was 89, and you quoted penguin’s 100… meaning you were past 89, so now all of a sudden cause someone else brings it up, and you just say you don’t like the post, but you’re not specifying what about it you don’t like, and you also imply Gamma’s post is bad too, like, you’re quoting Gamma/Gryff and just like “This post is really bad, and this one is bad” and they’re so bad cause they “legitimize poor scum hunting” ??? like, why not go “What specifically about Red/Andante make them seem ok to you Gamma?” or something like that? Idk, I don’t like this post
-154: You just say “gamma feels opportunistic in that they are jumping on this nothing post and using it as a way to build credibility” like, idk, what gamma did seemed fine to me, like, I think I did something similar with “I wanna vote Kow out now” and I went “I’m not opposed” no part of that is seeking credibility? If anything, I’d say you’re the one who jumped on to a post and added nothing, cause we can all sit here all day long and go “this post is good/bad” but without that “why” it’s like, you’re not really helping. You do a good job with the “why does gamma think red/andante have been towny enough to be out of the pool” but like, you only say that AFTER Taly essentially asks you about that, like if as you say, you were interested in that, why not just ask Gamma directly? Cause burying “I would be interested to hear their rationale on red/andante town” in the middle of a semi long response to a large quote? That just about guarantees the person never sees it, meaning you don’t care about the answer
-155 you get your answer to the question, acknowledge you saw it… and have no words?
-175- I would love to know your Gerain read as of this point tbh, cause you’re just “how is gerain difficult to read? They’re talking so we can read that!” ***possible TMI knowing gerain here
Like, why all the questions? You’re quoting Herta clarifying gerain’s playstyle to red, then “HOW IS GERAIN HARD TO READ?” like, feels really odd, especially cause it isn’t paired with your current thoughts there
-176: mech talk
-177: oh yeah this post, I answered it on its own, but after reading the above posts, you’re like all questions… then people give you an answer, and that’s just it? Like, what is the purpose of the questions you ask if you don’t actually care about the responses?
-227: this implies you SR gamma, but like, you haven’t given any reads thus far?
-228: So you give a reason for Taly and Herta town, and then you just go “Penguin town, And Andante” like, reasons? Also I think it’s a tad odd that so early in the game you’re like “I don’t want to vote Red or Gryff yet” What has Geraint done for you to town lean them thus far? You mention about Gamma not being towny cause Gamma didn’t engage with 154, uhh how was gamma supposed to know you wanted them to engage? Immediately after 154, in 155 you said gamma answered the question, and now you’re commenting on gamma’s posts being nothing? (sure I don’t know what gamma’s posts are right now) but all your posts thus far? Have not really been anything, a whole lot of questions, and not a whole lot of thoughts. Like, again, a lot of people love RVS, game had just started, not sure how nothing=scum indicative, isn’t nothing just not alignment indicative? What makes you happy with a Kow lim? Cause everyone else is? You haven’t mentioned Kow once thus far this game, you want to vote out Shirou for saying they want to coast? Doesn’t look like Shirou is coasting to me right now? You want evening chats with Klikk? Like, no comment on anything Klikk has said… just “Klickk hasn’t talked to me!!” – not a ran of this reads list attempt tbh
-230: My issue is the fact like, you just called herta town and 228 implied herta and taly are your STRONGEST TRs so Gryff being certain herta town, like, why do you have a problem with it? And the gamma thing? So what? I feel like most of us have reads where it’s like “If I’m wrong on this read, this other one will be off” so Gryff is at least noting it? And using words like “how can you be so certain” feels like you’re trying to lock Gryff into those reads, you could always just ask for clarification on how exactly a gamma town flip makes herta scum or whatever
-233: So you had just called gamma out for not interacting with you, gamma interacts with the post you asked them to, and you’re just like “what did I lie about?” like, you finally got what you asked for, Gamma clarified Klick and Penguin thoughts, and you don’t care? In fact your response is to just vote Gamma?

And I’m not really sure why you keep going “you didn’t answer 154” instead of like just repeating/clarifying what you want answered? This is feeling more like you’re just trying to pick a fight with gamma, and a lot less like “Gamma I want to interact with you”
- Through post 283-

So yeah, the TLDR/my takeaway here is that Brick isn’t actually scumhunting, but asking questions to try and make it look like they are, like, I genuinely don’t think anything in that ISO comes from town!Brick, to me it looks a lot more like “I have to try and look towny” cause sure, some of these posts on their own, not bad, but looking at them as a whole? Like, I KNOW I typed a long response to the questions Brick gave me, and Brick never addresses my answer, brick asked many others questions, never cared for the answers, yet for whatever reason, Gamma “not responding to 154” seems to be the only “reason” brick SRs/Votes Gamma?? Like, literally in 155, Brick says gamma addressed the questions? So yeah, I’m pretty certain this is 1 scum

[Andante]

Kow has too many votes for this early. Got my eye on Penguin,red, Klick, and andante. Likely at least one scum on there.

I'm at work, so this is all I'll be able to say for the next fivish hours.

Red and Andante seem okay rn
Other 2 idk

I don't like Gryff's post but Gamma's is not much better. This legitimises poor scum hunting

What do you think of

Gamma

taking

Red

and

Andante

out of that pool?

To me, Gamma’s approach feels opportunistic in that they are jumping on this nothing post and using it as a way to build credibility.

I don’t want to answer for Gamma but I think the really question here, Taly, is why Gamma felt out of those 4 that Red and Andante had done enough to be town, and why the other two are not? I would be interested to hear their rationale on why these two.

Until then, like I said it just seems opportunistic.

I see Gamma answered the above, should have read the full thread before posting. Will be back on this evening, rushing mafia posts is to no one’s benefits.

Like, in 155, you say Gamma answered the above... but then later, you keep yelling at Gamma for not answering 154?? It doesn't make sense to me

VOTE: Brickwall

[Andante]

Brick, feel free to respond to anything in that or dont, but a better use of your time would be actually justifying like ANY of your reads or some original thought, something.

(And that ended up taking longer than I thought it would, ISOs continue later. First. Dinner.)

Also, if ANYONE TRs Brick, please speak up now and clarify/help me see it, cause I sure dont

[Andante]

Brickwalll is currently my second most confident townread

Please share more on this when you get the chance

[Andante]

I just had the idea in pregame so I figured I’d vocalize it immediately.

so you would do it as either alignment right? the readlist thing is nai?

LMAOOO why did I just instantly laugh when I saw this "Oh this debate again"

[Andante]

Also, HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHIROU!!! We're almost twins Andante and Shirou the same? hahahaha

[Andante]

I think Brick's posting overall reads as very comfortable and confident in itself. Brick is being very open with their thoughts while also not feeling like they're oversharing. Brick is probing and asking questions and I think the intent of them is to genuinely get answers and scumhunt rather than to mislead anyone or persuade us that Brick is town. Brick feels confident presenting their unique perspective to the game as opposed to trying to blend in. I think all of these things make Brick really likely to be town.

So you think the posting is to genuinely get answers? more than just posting cause they feel like they have to post? I'll go find specific posts in a second, but I'm really not seeing Brick's plan here, cause none of these questions asked seem to translate to any sort/type of read, there was 1 post like "here's a bunch of thoughts" which is probably Brick's best, but it's like, after Taly asked Brick what Brick thought about Gamma and the 2 names, THEN Brick decided to ask (154) and keep pushing that 1 thing? so I'll go find a few of the posts real quick, but I was really confused on the actual purpose of the question being asked

[Andante]

Kow has too many votes for this early. Got my eye on Penguin,red, Klick, and andante. Likely at least one scum on there.

I'm at work, so this is all I'll be able to say for the next fivish hours.

Red and Andante seem okay rn
Other 2 idk

I don't like Gryff's post but Gamma's is not much better. This legitimises poor scum hunting

This was one I really wasn't a fan of, like, Brick is complaining about Gamma having nothing posts, but this is exactly that? a post just to post, calling posts bad doesn't accomplish anything, like, I understand playstyles are different, but this just feels like it's a lot more about looks, idk
I do appreciate having this conversation though!!

[Andante]

i'm actually reading andante posts now and it does sound kinda superficially scummy how she considerably "suspects" kowah initially for...just placing a vote on her

but i also think it may be her personality, i still maintain my read on her

p-edit: thanks Andante! late happy birthday to you as well!

i think i forgot to say bc i wasn't paying attention to this game before

And my vote is now on brick, notice how we got out of RVS? I find something "sus" push it, cause why not, and here we are today, I'll admit the initial kow reason wasn't great, but out of everyone, that was the easiest "case" I could make to push us on, and well, along the way kow continued to be scummy, so it works lol I'm thinking I'll wait for Kow's thoughts elsewhere to revisit, but I don't think continuing to push Kow is beneficial for me here, cause all that will do is result in Kow continuing to tunnel me, so if I ignore Kow, Kow won't feel as much like they have to push back if that makes sense (I do not tr them by any means)
What can I say, I hate RVS, and look at what we got from the push, we have strong supporters to voting Kow out, and we have some "Kow lim is fine" folks. Take notes on that for later! You are welcome! (ha! not so scummy now is it )

(and lol all good!!!)

[Andante]

-177: oh yeah this post, I answered it on its own, but after reading the above posts, you’re like all questions… then people give you an answer, and that’s just it? Like, what is the purpose of the questions you ask if you don’t actually care about the responses?

I will say on this in particular that I used to do this often as town and basically trained myself out of it through experience
I still do it sometimes
I suspect Brick may be a bit like me in that they usually ask questions for clarity of understanding rather than discussion

See, I hated the question when it was initially asked, it was like "why do you feel like you HAVE to be here) when I had just said in that same post about how like was gonna get crazy, and why be concerned about my vote? I think I said something in my response too, the questions seemed odd, like, I'm not sure how those are clarification questions

[Andante]

I'm bad at getting value out of back-and-forth discussion in general though, my specialty is solving without interaction

lol I'm similar, thus I go through ISOs (it helps significantly when I have an idea on everyone) uhhh live time also works super well for me, but if someone is being nice to me, I'm more likely to TR them... I mean what, I can't be pocketed!!! and if someone is pushing me I'm much more likely to push back, although I'm definitely working on this more, and trying to be more objective, and only lookin at the facts, but right now, I'm trying to see what you see in Brick more than read you lol

[Andante]

-228: So you give a reason for Taly and Herta town, and then you just go “Penguin town, And Andante” like, reasons?

See, I think casually dropping four townreads with little justification is a lot more likely to come from town than scum

Yeah but me and Penguin were 2 people that lots of people were calling town, so that doesn't exactly count as a "read" which is where my issue lies

[Andante]

312 is a lot, ngl. But, it just seems like you decided 6 posts in that I am scum and then made every post I made thereafter to align with this 6 post read. Nonetheless I will indulge and answer snippets.

Um yeah essentially, after a point I was like "hold up, this seems off" and the rest is history

Yeah, exactly what I am doing. I am new, getting a grip of the land but letting townie know I am here and at least trying to participate.

I do have this slight issue with how much you're saying you're new like, there's just this part of my mind that's like "The amount of times it is being said feels like you're leaning heavily into it" and like, the only thing "being new" really affects is roles/how they work, like, the rest of this is this logic/puzzle game or however people describe it, sure experience helps, but it's like, in the past year I've only played this game and half of another, but I feel like my skills are pretty similar to before, like I'm not trying to be rude or anything but all this "Brick is new" stuff is just like, so what? that has no impact on what you randed, and in fact, I've hung out in Road to Rome, a lot of them will justify their thoughts with a sentence or two, I'm not asking for you to match my playstyle, but like, it sure would be nice to know how your thought process works, cause to me, all I'm seeing is "here's a statement" and like, are you scared of giving the reasoning?? idk, I can definitely see you being scum here lol
---
You can answer posts in whatever order you like, but I'm just saying, you replied to penguin accidentally saying your name? before something "so important" prior to that? like, it's your actions I'm questioning cause that's literally all we have to go on from you
--
ooh there is something here I actually really like, hang on this requires more attention, also I'm feeling like for the rest of yall I should finish my ISOs there before dropping another lol (it's friday night.... ahhhhh I wanna push this to tomorrow tbh)

UNVOTE: Brickwall

(not a tr, but there is something I really like in 333, and I want to give it more thought, also I think I genuinely have to step away to look at this with fresh eyes tomorrow, help I tried rereading 333 and I can't comprehend it right now ok goodbye, before I ummm make anyone mad at me, IM SORRY!!! drinking was bad bad idea hahahaha well, bad if intentions were to keep working on this solve tonight. We're unvoting, doing no damage, ok goodbye.)

[Andante]

I am here for a bit so happy to answer any questions or chat it through. Interested on

Andante's

thoughts on the interaction between Gamma and I.

Not gonna lie, I haven't read a lot of gamma this game, gamma be chilling and all I got from your ISO wasn't amazing lol
(sorry I'm out now, I'll be back tomorrow!!!!! would love to chat it through! def not right now though cause it's too hard to read posts longer than 1 line)

[Andante]

peer pressure is bad... stay away from it kids

[Andante]

Official Vote Count 1.05

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to eliminate.

Kowabungah

(2): redFF, Herta

Gamma Emerald

(2): Lazy Shirou, Brickwalll

Haschel Cedricson

(1): GamerGryff

Andante

(1): Kowahbunga

PenguinPower

(1): Haschel Cedricson

Brickwalll

(1): Gamma Emerald

Klick

(1): PenguinPower

GamerGryff

(0):

Not Voting

(4): geraintm, Taly, Andante, Klick

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-02-02 19:43:16).

Mod notes:

Hopefully no errors this time!

How do we have no actual wagon right now and 7 wagons of basically 1-2 people... like, this game is being played backwards, normally RVS looks like this, then we chill on a wagon, but I've also seems a bunch of the like "who cares" attitude, like, hello if we all sit here going "ehhh who cares this game is pointless" obviously it won't end well for us, and Kow/gerain, the 2 of yall all "oh we're gonna lim a town!!!!" ok, why don't you try and like give thoughts, relying on this whole idea of "WE'LL HAVE INFORMATION TOMORROW" How certain are you of that? I was gs in a game of all mafia doctors (doctors look clear to a gs) I was the "bringer of information" that didn't help town at all. we're told this setup is complex, I'm not too certain what that means for a normal game, but I'm just about certain we don't have a bunch of cops/trackers, so I hate to break it to yall, but you're actually going to have to scumhunt/rely on reading people.

I'm getting annoyed by the lack of people actually doing stuff, and hearing the complaining about the game yall signed up for.

Lets bring this back VOTE: Kow

[Andante]

Penguin, I'd follow you, but I'm not really down to vote anyone actually doing something today, I thought about brick, at least Brick is trying, unless people start doing stuff, I'm voting in the ones complaining/giving no effort.

Shiirou calling me town over and over again, I am a little confused over there, like, I feel like I'm an easy read, so why does it have to be repeated over and over lol I laughed so hard at someone quoting all the times shirou called me town x10 times I'm scared it's a pocket attempt to stay on my good side, cause I've seen it so many times, but I'm still fine with Shirou living past today!

[Andante]

I see Gamma answered the above, should have read the full thread before posting. Will be back on this evening, rushing mafia posts is to no one’s benefits.

Yeah no you’re an outed liar.
VOTE: Brickwalll

ahhhhh I see, I might have been a tad unfair to Brick with this stuff, I can't really tell why yall started going at it though, ahhhh I don't know, like, I don't know how to read this back and forth stuff

[Andante]

Hello, I have read nothing that happened since the site went down for the upgrade and I also probably missed some stuff before that. Diving in now...

How deep are you diving? 36 hours later are you still catching up?

lol oh yeah this!
VOTE: Haschel
do something please

[Andante]

Argh! Just realised my 2nd previous post I messed up, but I hope you can see what I wrote brickwall.

But you are doing exactly to me what you are complaining is being done to you. You've decided I am scummy fo some reason and all my actions - even ones that to me scream town - you are twisting to be scum

It isn't really the same thing though, is it? Andante literally posted saying 6 posts in she thinks I am scum, and then subsequently went through every post I made and made it align with her read.

In post 228 I said you were town leaning. My read changed when you posted 247. I am happy with my read for now and will reassess as the game continues.

But for now VOTE: Haschel, think we need something from this slot.

so I was reading your ISO, taking notes, then made the comment, like now, I'm reading ISOs, taking notes, and trying to check in lol I didn't read the first 6, do "TIME TO SCUM CASE!" then bam! it was "post #, notes, next post #, notes, 'oh hey I want yalls thoughts on brick here', post#, notes"
cause I know if I want anything from peeps, I have to give them a bunch of time to answer, and knew the ISO would take me a while lol these next ISOs, I'll wait till I'm done most likely, so I can actually rank peeps, and if I have enough for someone to not be null, that's very likely my locked in read for the rest of the game. hahahaha all this effort and I can't wait to be dead wrong, to be fair, my reads are almost always completely correct, or very off/backwards lmaooo. New year New Andante! we're gonna have 100% accurate reads! Watch out scum! ok sorry, back to reading. I should shut up.

[Andante]

I see Gamma answered the above, should have read the full thread before posting. Will be back on this evening, rushing mafia posts is to no one’s benefits.

Yeah no you’re an outed liar.
VOTE: Brickwalll

ahhhhh I see, I might have been a tad unfair to Brick with this stuff, I can't really tell why yall started going at it though, ahhhh I don't know, like, I don't know how to read this back and forth stuff

Well, to be honest this is kinda my point. Gamma seemed to take exception to something I said and the reaction and subsequent back and forth didn't seem justified compared to what kicked off this event. The over-reaction, in my opinion, needs delving into and

Gamma

needs to answer to why there reaction was so animated for what I would say was something very minor.

Yeah, I saw you saying that so I went back to look, and that yeah, I think it falls more on gamma than you, idk!!! after that, I want all my facts straight before I comment further!!! Gamma is #11 on the list and I'm on #4 lol tbh based on what I was skimming though, I was like "I'm really not sure on Gamma here, so this could just be on expert level, and sort everyone else, but that's gonna require Kow to try to read people, instead of copy gerain, and Haschel to post, which seems like too much effort for day 1 the more I think about it

[Andante]

ok ! I tried

lol we appreciate the effort!!!

[Andante]

One other note, if this is a softclaim, which I'm guessing it isn't, feel free to just check me tonight. In fact, if there is a cop/similar role, check me, more than happy to definitively prove my innocence.

This doesn't feel like it comes from Town POV. It feels more like a dare from scum. Also I feel like I always hope any cop find scum with their shot(s) and that finding town is more on the side of a miss. Town confirming players is great and all, but this feels more like someone wanting to get their town clear so they can coast to the end of the game.

Here is the scenario that ran through my head from both POVs of Gryff!town and Gryff!scum.

Gryff!town wants to be town cleared without putting in any effort. I really can't see any other motivation to make this post from town POV. We'd all like to be town cleared... However, if there is a cop, and they do investigate Gryff!town - they would have to announce it on D2 for the rest of us to actually know anything. Which in turn risks the safety of the cop over one town clear. Are you really town cleared if one person knows it but doesn't say anything to the rest of us? I'm struggling to make something make sense for why a town person would ask for this.

Gryff!scum wants to be town cleared because maybe they have a role that investigates green to a cop and the sooner that information is revealed the easier scum have a path for victory. Or maybe scum have something to counter a cop once they know the cop, and Gryff is fine being a sacrifice to find the cop on D2.

I would think a cop is less likely to claim D2 with a green result on someone. Probably much more likely to claim on D2 if they get red. So I don't see much positive motivation from Gryff!town to think their best course this game is to just ask the cop to look at him.

Woah. Kow!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!! And like, your first sentence was exactly my thought, I'm just like, why are we outing "HEY I SEE A SOFTCLAIM" like, it's almost pushing the person to confirm/deny the role. like, in the moment I read the cop check on me as a joke, I had just posted a lot, and yeah, my gut reaction when others do it is "ok yeah, town" but specifically outing you think it's a soft claim? yeah..
and my comment on the asking to be checked part is: gerain had literally already asked to be checked this game, and if we all sit here "PLEASE CHECK ME!" it's like, seriously? and the investigate thing yes, as I said to gerain, people asking to be checked instantly screams to me "mafia doctor and gunsmiths!!!" I swear that game ruined my trust for life lmaoo

but know what yall, I think Kow is good to live to d2! Thank you kow, this was the content I wanted, and the fact it's exactly the same thoughts I was having on it? I think you may have just went straight to town leans tbh

[Andante]

I wish y'all would play the game you signed up for rather than the game you wish you were playing.

I think my frustration with D1 comes from the confidence people have during it that I can't find myself to play with that early. It makes me feel inadequate as a player resulting in my dislike for the day. But with more information I feel more confident to give an opinion on events. In D1 I don't like giving opinions because I feel like it's not beneficial to blindly guess. It's different when you have blindly guess but with something to play pong with your head.

What about the pov where we generate enough info day 1, so that those with night actions can actually use them? Like, say we have a vig? If we race through day1, vig will likely random fire, but we talk, vig can shoot someone doing nothing, or can attempt to make a hero shot and get yelled at later if wrong, investigates, they read what happens, and make their best judgement from there, like, I feel like D1 isn't just "oh we're gonna lim town!!" it's also like, we see what was flipped, we see who was for/against it, who was scared to commit to a decision one way or the other, we get info, even if we do flip town. Then you have people like me who have played too much mafia in their life, and see the same "tells" people use, and honestly this game, its been a whole lot of people repeating ideas others said and clinging to them, those are the greatest red flags in my books, a close second is those not even trying to make reads, I don't expect perfection from anyone, I literally just need 1-2 reads from people, and that's definitely enough for me to get a general idea of them on day 1
uhhh that's mostly tangent I think, tldr: yeah I get we all play d1 differently, no need to feel inadequate! my personal style is more, I sort best I can d1, and then new, contradictory information changes the reads, and I reevaluate, but bulk of my effort is always day 1, cause we're not guaranteed a d2 or d3 here, so I feel I have to get my thoughts out now while I'm alive

[Andante]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: herta

how about this

what are your thoughts on Kow after those posts?

[Andante]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: herta

how about this

what are your thoughts on Kow after those posts?

his wagon has lost steam and the big walls he's posting read like genuine frustration

Ok, do you have any actual thoughts on these ideas in his big walls? Specifically your thoughts on 434 please, that's not "genuine frustration" and that's actual game related content from kow, so what do you think of it?
(I try not to TR people off of emotions, that's a recipe for disaster)

[Andante]

I wish y'all would play the game you signed up for rather than the game you wish you were playing.

I think my frustration with D1 comes from the confidence people have during it that I can't find myself to play with that early. It makes me feel inadequate as a player resulting in my dislike for the day. But with more information I feel more confident to give an opinion on events. In D1 I don't like giving opinions because I feel like it's not beneficial to blindly guess. It's different when you have blindly guess but with something to play pong with your head.

What about the pov where we generate enough info day 1, so that those with night actions can actually use them? Like, say we have a vig? If we race through day1, vig will likely random fire, but we talk, vig can shoot someone doing nothing, or can attempt to make a hero shot and get yelled at later if wrong, investigates, they read what happens, and make their best judgement from there, like, I feel like D1 isn't just "oh we're gonna lim town!!" it's also like, we see what was flipped, we see who was for/against it, who was scared to commit to a decision one way or the other, we get info, even if we do flip town. Then you have people like me who have played too much mafia in their life, and see the same "tells" people use, and honestly this game, its been a whole lot of people repeating ideas others said and clinging to them, those are the greatest red flags in my books, a close second is those not even trying to make reads, I don't expect perfection from anyone, I literally just need 1-2 reads from people, and that's definitely enough for me to get a general idea of them on day 1
uhhh that's mostly tangent I think, tldr: yeah I get we all play d1 differently, no need to feel inadequate! my personal style is more, I sort best I can d1, and then new, contradictory information changes the reads, and I reevaluate, but bulk of my effort is always day 1, cause we're not guaranteed a d2 or d3 here, so I feel I have to get my thoughts out now while I'm alive

I would argue a good vig would hold their shot as long as possible. Especially if the logic of that math in the post I was linked is so widely accepted. The longer a vig holds a shot, the more likely that shot hits scum assuming things aren't going well for town. But a N2 shot seems like a bad idea from a vig standpoint. However, I'm thinking this is just an example for all town powers and you're not specifically wanting my opinion on a vig now that I typed all this.

I think the best argument against me you just gave here with the "not guaranteed a d2 or d3 and so on" so you gotta play the days you're alive. That definitely makes more sense. I just get weirded out by the confidence and everyone looks scummy to me. I've always scum hunted by looking for absolutes. So D1 on this site feels like I'm just stuck in a bastard game because everyone is just so confident about their reads over the tiniest stuff and I see an absolute and i want to attack but as i attack that two other people have spoken in absolutes and all of a sudden I'm just lost in the woods reading everything forgetting to respond.

Ok, let's assume I'm the vig, I'm not a good vig, it's so hard to holster the gun, must shoot! cause I'll either be the hero, or I'm shooting someone scummy, so it's fine, and you can not opperate under the assumption the town vig is good, and if vig just waits till lylo to shoot, we can auto lose, like, I'd rather vig shoot early, and go get the reads from that, cause again, if we have dead townies, we can look at who was pushing them cause they genuinely believed them to be scum, and who was just taking advantage of the wrong townies, ehhh vig is easiest to talk about for 2 reasons
1) pew pew we all love guns!
2) this is an enchant game, either town or scum or both probably has some kind of vig (unless that's not normal, 1 sec, ehhh too hard to look up where the normal rules are right now, I'll look after this)
but yes, applies to like all PRs, but if we have bodyguards/docs, they want to have a general idea of who to save, if we rush through day 1, they're useless/toast, and that's all I'm saying on PRs, day 1 gives lots of info, whether you're someone who uses that info or not, it's there and exists, the math doesn't matter really

I'll give you a tip, most of my confidence here is fake lol, you just give your thoughts, say what you think, see if that stick with anyone, see if anyone hates it, and go from there, so remember how I had no confidence pushing you? That ended up creating a giant wagon, and a lot of "yeah Kow maf!" so now, I'm looking at red like "you felt strongly about kow, and are now flipping your read just cause of frustration?" Like, yeah sure, I had a scum lean on kow with only talking about me, but 434 was not bad at all, in fact I really liked it, and am not interested in limming you today kow.
So, you're actually in a position right now with a lot of absolutes, you know your alignment, so you can look at those who voiced a SR on you, and see who looks like the scum in that, like you saying you have no absolutes? I could lie about a cop check tomorrow, that's not as absolute as you knowing your alignment, like, in my ISOs (which I've gotten super distracted and haven't returned to, I literally have a note about you from Herta's ISO (-81- joined kow voters, with weak reason, mentioned kow again 116 ***look back upon kow scumflip)
Like, only you can go look at 81/116 and KNOW what that looks like, I have to wait for your flip in order to revisit Herta jumping on

I hope that makes sense, I know I kinda just ramble, Kow, you don't have to be 100% confident, I managed to create a full on wagon on you just based off a hunch I had with when you voted me, and from that, I've generated thoughts on the others (I'm still working on my exact thoughts lol)


Tldr: DON'T BE AFRAID! FAKE CONFIDENCE FOR THE WIN! YOU GOT THIS! WE WANNA HEAR YOUR VOICE!!! Woooooo

[Andante]

this site is generally more focused on day play/discussion/reading people through their posts, then by solving the game through night actions.

so have you actually read 434?

[Andante]

I've been playing probably 15 years.

15 years? woah!!! that's a lot longer than me lol, but that also means you have experience/things you'll pick up on! PLEASE share your expertise with us!!! This whole "do nothing d1 idea" I really feel like doesn't sit with a veteran mafia player lol like, surely you have tips/tricks you've learned

ahhhhh here I was like "yo, I think this might be town, and I feel good about it"
then we have "I've been playing 15 years"
and now I'm just like "idk what to even think anymore, I've been playing off/on for 10 years, and no lim day 1?? that's so far from what I'd ever want to do"

rip. oh well, I won't let yall lim Kow day 1 though, he has still given some effort, and I can't tell if it's just cause I FULLY AGREE with it, but I love 434, and yall just keep ignoring his good post.... keep trying to go back to the no lim conversation, like, who cares? if yall ignore the no lim convo, I feel like Kow moves on,
Shirou, you came from no where to join the no lim mech talk??

[Andante]

don’t feel like it
stay mad

GAMMA! No! Happiness only!

[Andante]

I've been playing probably 15 years.

I don't see a benefit in me wasting my time giving fake reads and pretending to be something. So I will not provide you with fake reads. I'm confident in my ability to lie about things and paint pictures if needed.

VOTE: kowah

i don't even think you're necessarily scum rn but i don't necessarily believe you can convincingly lie about reads either atm

you talk about needing more "info" to figure out the townies/scum but you don't even want to help me figure you out?

Shirou, read 434 from Kow

[Andante]

In terms of Gryff vs. geraint regarding asking for investigation targeting them, geraint’s looks remarkably better than Gryff’s. In part because of the calling attention to the potential softclaim, which others have also pointed out.

If I had a dollar everytime yall were stealing each other's thoughts without giving them credit... To my knowledge, Kow is the only one who has pointed it out, and here we just go "Yeah I agree with Kow so Gryff doesn't look good" like, surely that 1 softclaim sentence is not the main reason you think geraint's looks better

[Andante]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: herta

how about this

what are your thoughts on Kow after those posts?

his wagon has lost steam and the big walls he's posting read like genuine frustration

Ok, do you have any actual thoughts on these ideas in his big walls? Specifically your thoughts on 434 please, that's not "genuine frustration" and that's actual game related content from kow, so what do you think of it?
(I try not to TR people off of emotions, that's a recipe for disaster)

#434 is a legit useless post, brings zero to the table.
"he could be town, he could be scum"

i unvoted cause the wagon is going nowhere and this post right here could be AtE but is the towniest hes looked.

Anyways, I look forward to being scum read for my opinions on how the game should be played. Don't feel bad about it, it always happens when I make this post.

I don't have any reads on anyone else. There will never be a list today. It will all be in the moment. I will look at wagons, and I will question weird votes. I will decide if I believe role claims and results when they're presented.

In fact, just consider this intent to hammer the first E1 I see. Even if it's me.

I also had a thought that i could be mistaking being wrong and inexperience for scumminess

lol interesting, you think the post I loved was a nothing post, and well everyone is just ignoring it... sus
You unvoted cause wagon dead, and towny ATE? what even? anyone can ATE, I mean, if you put yourself in Kow's shoes, ALL GAME half the table has been calling Kow scum, that's literally all it would take for anyone to be frustrated.

Yeah umm see, Kow just revealed he's played maf for 15 years, doesn't sound like inexperience to me, I was also under the impression he was new, bruh I don't even know anymore, do I retract my town lean? the thread has come ALIVE this morning, we're on to something, I just have no clue what.
Also, I'm still just confused by why you all of a sudden believe ATE, and that made you go "no more kow!" but then like, Kow was your strongest push, and I haven't seen you push elsewhere??

[Andante]

Shirou, read 434 from Kow

i've read it now

@kowah there's no way to "counter" a cop investigation in a "normal game" in this site

godfather is the mafia role that gives a green result to a cop but it's not allowed in this queue

mafia doctors and gunsmiths. The docs are innocent, I'm sure there's other "innocent" combinations

[Andante]

@Kowah

3 fake reads with some good reasoning

that's all i'm gonna keep asking from you in this game. i need you to prove me and everyone else that you know how to lie so we can move from this.

from our PoV you can just be scum that doesn't know how to lie so far.

I'm really not liking your posts right now, first to show up to talk about "why we shouldn't no lim" and all this non game related talk, like, fake reads, random stuff, it feels like you're scum trying to derail the thread right now
VOTE: Shirou

[Andante]

I refuse to lie.

Are you mafia?

[Andante]

my point is that you can be so bad at scum that you're lost and unable to fake reads

I mean, can we have fake reads from you then? Other than "Andante town x10"

[Andante]

wait, PENGUIN!!! this is going so fast lol I do want your thoughts, do you think Shirou town? or is vote here ok?

[Andante]

the velocity is surpassing my read rate

but i townlean

kow

, i really doubt scum doubles down on takes that have been widely suspected or rebuked as objectively suboptimal play

What about kow do you townlean?
I'm currently conflicted on something, like are you townleaning the fact Kow keeps pushing for a no lim?
Kow said he's played mafia for 15 years...

[Andante]

wait, PENGUIN!!! this is going so fast lol I do want your thoughts, do you think Shirou town? or is vote here ok?

sorry - the post in between taly's and mine kinda through off the meaning...if you and taly are town on kow then I'm fine with lumping him in the do not yeet pile.

I'm still completely fine with yeeting shirou...prefer klick.

I'm good with do not yeet *today* for Kow, in my thing to Taly, I just gave my hesitations there, but Shirou has just climbed to the top of my list, I'll look into Klick, I just remember Klick strongly defending Brick, and nothing else, so 1 sec (more like 10 minutes lol) I'm just really not liking Shirou's posts right now lol like the terrorism one? uhh what dude? ok, looking at Klick!!

[Andante]

lol ok so I was gonna read through then come up with thoughts, but this is literally Klick's first post of the game:

oh wait one more thing on this actually, sorry I get super distracted. I find it interesting though that your first post is "hey yall I want daily reads lists" it seems odd, like I like seeing what people naturally do, like often if town posts a readslist, and it's the first main one of the game, then scum see it, panic, and post one solely to look towny, it's kinda why I don't start asking for lists from people till later, not post 1 day 1...

I kind of agree with this

Readlist as of Post 16:

TOWN:
LEANING TOWN: Andante
NULL: Brickwalll, PenguinPower, Haschel Cedricson, Herta, geraintm, Lazy Shirou, Kowahbunga, redFF, Andante, GamerGryff, Gamma Emerald, Taly
LEANING SCUM:
SCUM:

Like, the conversation was all about the day 1 readslist stuff, and Klick enters going "HERE'S MY READS THROUGH POST 16" in list form, cause that's what was being talked about, but like, the only "read" on that list is me leaning town, and like, there's not even an explanation why? like, you agreed with my post #16, so much so, that you have to tell everyone you think I'm town? ok, this is being posted on post #60, meaning there's like 40 other posts in there, not gonna move others around? No shit I'm town, I'm not a hard read, why am I the person you decide to announce? At first I was just like "a readslist for the first post?" but like, it's not a list... it's just saying I lean town, and all others null, and you're declaring I lean town on post 16 of the entire game??

ok sorry, back to reading the ISO, yeah lol Penguin I'm not feeling great about Klick hahaha
(see Brickwall, at least for you it took 6 posts, Klick here? first one!)

[Andante]

Yeah Gryff reads as hard town to me

So, I would love to know what exactly made Gryff read as hard town that early lol cause before this, Klick was just in the Kow!Maf boat saying what we wanted to hear?

Klick's ISO is literally only talking to/about
* Me/Kow
* Gryff
* Brickwall

like, that's it, you can't just quote a wall of reads and go "this comes from town" like, do you want to discuss any of those reads? And after last night we learned Klick's 2nd most confident TR was Brick, when like, before last night it was kinda just "brick has a point!" and that was it, not commiting to a read, I went "hey here's my thoughts" which now, I'm like, brick sounds friendly! I like brick a lot!! so sure maybe it's wrong, but the way Klick defends, and that level of confidence, just feels like it comes from TMI

and like, for someone who STARTED THE GAME with a readslist, there has been no update to it. which is odd to me, like, you posted a readslist cause we were like "yeah lists are cool!" and you made a "list" through post 16, which was literally just your read on me? then "brick is my very confident tr" that's not on the list!! I'm still confused where this brick TR came from looking at the ISO, like, it just appeared tbh, and Klick is barely interacting with people, yeah I'm down with this, Shirou is a very close 2nd place for my vote

(This almost feels like I can make a list right now... jk idk where I'd put gamma/gryff on the list)

[Andante]

Penguin, I'd follow you, but

What's your read on me and why?

I just gave it lol, you're not town

[Andante]

Penguin, I'd follow you, but I'm not really down to vote anyone actually doing something today, I thought about brick, at least Brick is trying, unless people start doing stuff, I'm voting in the ones complaining/giving no effort.

Shiirou calling me town over and over again, I am a little confused over there, like, I feel like I'm an easy read, so why does it have to be repeated over and over lol I laughed so hard at someone quoting all the times shirou called me town x10 times I'm scared it's a pocket attempt to stay on my good side, cause I've seen it so many times, but I'm still fine with Shirou living past today!

hahahaha this morning I was like "Klick has done stuff yeah, we had that conversation last night!!" and now it's like, nah dude, that ISO is EMPTY and is just "I talk to/about the same 3 people, that's it" the tables be turning

[Andante]

YOOO so all this ISO talk, I went, how many posts do I have.. I have 80, which is almost 100, we're at 500 posts, 20% of the posts this game are me... I NEED MORE CONTENT FROM YALL!!!! lmaooo ok, I shall do my best to leave the game alone for a bit and let yall talk, also forgot to flip my vote

VOTE: Klick

Klick, can I see a current readslist from you?
(I will respond later! We need less Andante in this, cause 20% of the content being me? it's going to mess up my reads lol)

[Andante]

VOTE: Lazy Shirou openly saying you think someone is town and then voting them because they won't comply with your request feels like borderline blackmail...

well, i'm a literal terrorist

klick can confirm that i blackmail people frequently in mafia games

we just got out of white flag game where i kinda blackmailed furtive to vote someone in the next day if i voted with him on that day

i take threads hostage that's what i usually do

not here though i'm vibing

chilling

mhm

I mean, I wonder why I suspect you? It's truly a mystery to me, like, if you're looking at this from my pov, All you've done is call me town, I know I'm town, I also know that people who know me know to not instantly push me if they're scum and trying to fly under the radar. So what have you done that I can read? oh, you showed up to talk about the no lim stuff (I hate mech talk, so good work there) then this? I HATED these posts, like, what am I supposed to take away from them? Funny posts I can live with, those? not funny. Your "fake read" felt more like a real read, is that your actual thought on Taly? We can discuss Taly if you want, I haven't looked too much into them, they don't give off bad vibes so not a d1 priority lol (See, I read your posts!!!)

What do you think of Klick?

YOOOO IT'S SNOWING OUT NOW!!! I LOVE SNOW Ok, sorry had to share that fact
(lol so much for staying away)

[Andante]

Ok, I found the wiki, and instead of just going "I wonder what complex means" I found the following, and I feel like, yall might also be interested in the findings (straight from the wiki)

Complexity is defined by the following collection of characteristics. The more of them that a game has, the more likely it should be labeled complex rather than simple. The reverse is true as well: the fewer of these are applicable, the more likely the setup ought to be labeled as simple rather than complex.
Having several roles with modifiers, especially modifiers that affect targeting (e.g. simple, loyal) or fundamentally affect the way one would play the role (e.g. announcing, weak)
Having some roles with several modifiers
Having a large proportion of non-vanilla roles in general
Having anything that could be construed as a red herring (e.g., two of the same town role, a backup or enabler without a main role, a neighborhood with only mafia, a miller without a cop, etc.)
Having complicated interactions between roles (e.g. multiple blocking roles that may affect each other, generally anything that might make a reviewer need to think twice about how it would work)
Having many roles that aren't seen as frequently in normal games
Anything else that would potentially defy the expectations of a player who's played normal games before

[Andante]

And well, I didn't learn much lol other than, sounds like this'll be fun! and claims sound like they'll be unreliable, so that is to be noted. The miller without a cop idea is kinda interesting to me with the people all "CHECK ME!!!" idk, are there even examples of past complex normals? I legit have never seen it before and would love a link to a past complex normal game if anyone has one

[Andante]

Your "fake read" felt more like a real read, is that your actual thought on Taly?

the fact you think that's a real/good read when it's just me completely and utterly lying/bullshit should tell you that i'm very capable of fooling you if i wanted to

i'm not posting that sort of stuff bc i'm not trying to fool you in the first place

all i want from this game is for kowa to do something other than be "too scummy to be scum" so that i can get back to voting gryff/herta/maybe gamma bc that's prob real scum

It felt like you had a level of thought behind it, just like my Kow read, so then tell me what the point of a completely random read is? haha yeah thanks for not trying to fool me, like why did you ask Kow to do that?? if there's nothing to be gained?

[Andante]

What do you think of Klick?

he's town

just like me i feel he's more interested on solving stuff rather than tryharding on pretending to be solving stuff like he was doing in the white flag game

What is he actually solving though? his first post of the game was literally a "reads list" to say I was leaning town?? and then no updated list after the fact, and only cares about a few people, called Gryff town just because Gryff posted a list, doesn't feel like solving to me

[Andante]

It felt like you had a level of thought behind it, just like my Kow read, so then tell me what the point of a completely random read is? haha yeah thanks for not trying to fool me, like why did you ask Kow to do that?? if there's nothing to be gained?

i already explained myself

if kow is good on faking a read just like i did (which is what you basically do as scum in this game), i believe he's most likely town here bc it's not exactly the most reasonable strategy to just insist on "i've no reads" as scum and call that much attention to himself

if he can't fake a read as scum, he's obviously gonna try to spin it as he just doesn't believe on d1 or whatever

the point to be gained is a read on him depending on how well he knows how to fake a read. that's all and it makes complete sense to ask it even if it's weird.

ahh ok, but I'm over here like 15 years, there's no way he's not good at this game, which is umm a red flag. Like, you can't just play terribly, then go "yeah I've played maf for 15 years" yet I'm the only one bothered by this I think, he's not playing like someone of 15 years of experience plays, and it's throwing me with why.

what if we just flip Kow and that solves this. I DON'T KNOW ANY MORE!!! The more I look at this game, the more I'm like "I'm certain on this" and then I come back to that same thought, and I'm dead lost. Like, if you're vouching that Kilck is town, I feel like I should ignore Klick here, deal with that Day 2. however, next on the list is you mostly for the 2 posts I quoted I hated, but I'm not saving the person you're calling town, just to vote you out, gut says leave Kow till tomorrow, Brick is fine enough to leave alone today I think, also had Klick vouching for him, Penguin I never yeet here, Haschel either shows up or gets replaced, Herta I was midway through the ISO, I didn't love 81 and 116 with how Herta was with kow, 117 was fine but no reason for kilck read? Gerain is gerain? I guess not a day 1 lim, red could be a potential person I lim today, I didn't like how red backed off of Kow and just follows wherever, like, where's the original thoughts, Gryff I have no read on, did post an early list of reads, that's cool, umm hasn't done anything I remember, Gamma is alright maybe? I don't know, want more content before I decide one way or the other, they're also currently sick, so ehh, Taly seems fine from what I've seen, not voting out today
ayyyy there's my reads, like, I saw someone doing the "who I'd vote out day 1/not vote out" I guess I sorta shifted to that, but yeah idk, I still am fine with a Klick lim though? Brick Brick... I was pretty confident on Brick last night, and I don't normally move on so fast, but if I'm thinking Klick maf, it's like, what motivation does scum!Klick have to defend brick? It's not like anyone was really agreeing with me ahhhhhhhhhhh my brain is broken. Andante is a sheep! SOMEONE LEAD THE WAY!

(lmaoo uhh tldr: there's a basic overview of my thoughts on everyone in that, actually, for readability purposes, I'm making a list, jk no I'm not, I'm scared to commit to tiers, tiers... TIERLIST TO COME LATER!! YES YES!!! UNOREDERED TIERLISTS )

[Andante]

What do you think of Klick?

he's town

just like me i feel he's more interested on solving stuff rather than tryharding on pretending to be solving stuff like he was doing in the white flag game

What is he actually solving though? his first post of the game was literally a "reads list" to say I was leaning town?? and then no updated list after the fact, and only cares about a few people, called Gryff town just because Gryff posted a list, doesn't feel like solving to me

<3

Great minds think alike!!!

[Andante]

Am I the only one who finds it odd when the people you're talking about show up right as they're being talked about? They always show up and comment on something random/not related to what people are saying about them, Like Brick did it last night, Shirou had a very odd pop in earlier, and Klick now, I'm just like, I don't even know what to think? Like, you're following along? but don't want to clarify stuff that matters?? (To be fair brick clarified stuff last night, but the timing of him showing up after not being there? like, you're waiting to be talked about to show up??)

[Andante]

Shirou, read 434 from Kow

i've read it now

@kowah there's no way to "counter" a cop investigation in a "normal game" in this site

godfather is the mafia role that gives a green result to a cop but it's not allowed in this queue

I didn't know godfathers weren't allowed in here, TIL. You can block an investigation though, or do you mean if it is successful there is no way not to get a truthful result?

Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Non-Sane Cop, Blank Vig, Non-Sane or Quack Doctor, Janitor, Survivor, Condemner, Cultist, Jester, Mafia Mason, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector, Framer, Vanillaiser, Beloved Princess, Arsonist, Governor,

Godfather

(Straight from the wiki!)

Awww no bus driver! How are the busses supposed to go?
(lol I haven't heard of half those before" I am... a lightning rod!" lol what even is that?? don't answer, I'm looking it up hahaha)

[Andante]

The people you're voting as of late are the two people who imo have contributed the most for town thus far, Klick and Shirou.

What has Shirou contributed?

[Andante]

VOTE: Gryff

[Andante]

The people you're voting as of late are the two people who imo have contributed the most for town thus far, Klick and Shirou.

What has Shirou contributed?

Cause I'm sorry, don't know what game you are reading, Shirou has not contributed the most for town.

[Andante]

Lmao, quit jumping around, it only makes you look worse.

we serious right now... that's how you want to talk to me? feels a bit childish.. whatever, see yall later I'm not doing this right now

[Andante]

Andante openly admitted their confidence is just bravado. Combined with this hopping from person to person who calls them or one of their townreads out makes them come off to me as trying to force a wagon considering many people have said they seem as obvtown, and jumping to me specifically considering some people have agreed I'm an easy wagon for scum makes emboldens my conviction in andante scum even more

I didn't say it's all fake confidence, and you're trying to say I'm voting you right now cause you're "an easy wagon"??? I'm voting you cause you said Shirou has done the most, like excuse me? also your "it only makes you look worse" comment, like are you serious right now? definitely unecessary.
I'm giving this game my absolute all, trying my best, would you rather I stuck to deathtunneling Kow all day 1? literally go look at any of my past games, it's how I work, I have a thought I run with it, whatever, I have a feeling you're not even gonna read this anyways, and it's best I step away before I say anything further. Wanna rally the troops and vote me out before I return? Do it, I dare you.

[Andante]

ok hi I'm back! sorry I lost my cool yesterday, I'm just super annoyed with being told I'm maf cause of my playstyle/how my reads jump so fast, like, it's literally how I play? I see something I like, run with it, and that's that, that being said, I'm leaving my vote on Gryff, like Gryff literally keeps going "I'm being pushed cause I'm the easy lim" like excuse me? at first I voted you cause you said Shirou has done the most here, and then you're SRing me cause of playstyle, and not actually anything I've said here.
And then I made a comment about rallying the troops to vote me and you were just like "nah, I'm not gonna try" Like, if you sr someone enough to vote them, shouldn't you be trying to convince others to vote the person who is "for sure scum" otherwise, what's the point? Oh wait, when your "case" isn't actually based on anything other than "she flips her vote too fast" you don't exactly have a case
anyways, whatever. that is behind us!

ooh Haschel slot is Fire? nice nice! I can't read Fire though, so that's fun, he has like no reads, but called me scum, feels bad man.

I think Herta might be partners with Gryff, Herta doesn't really interact with Gryff at all and has Gryff in the "fine to eliminate" pool, Gryff also barely interacts with Herta and gave a weird read in 224 with exactly 1 scum in herta/gamma and really hasn't said much about herta, which I find interesting it goes both ways.
So we have Herta/Gryff, and another out there somewhere,
Klick, I don't think can be partners with Gryff, but could be with Herta, I think Klick has been sounding nice lately, but I love when people are nice to me, so I'm blinded right now!! KLICK, I SHALL DEFEND YOU WITH MY LIFE (for day 1) I wanna keep Klick around please!

hmmm I don't think Gamma fits as partners with Gryff, Herta could fit with Gamma, I don't feel strongly about this though

Taly could fit with Gryff, and Taly fits with Herta pretty well, none of the interactions here are really significant, barely interact.

Penguin... I really don't even think he's scum here, however, if he is, it's definitely with Gryff, I feel most confident of these 2 being teamed, cause the ISO is like "I'm talking to Gryff and only Gryff to give content" ahhh I really like these 2 being teamed, it fits pretty nicely, but I don't SR Penguin, I want to say this is for sure town penguin, he has too many words to be scum, right? Penguin readers where you at? Penguin!Town is my single most confident read here, but my head is like "Just look at Penguin and Gryff interactions..." and idk why but now I'm thinking of Datisi and this feels like what he'd do as scum, and like, it's this! Penguin isn't datisi though, ok goodbye yall my brain is currently broken.

like, yeah my brain is broken, but here's the summary we have a scum team of Gryff/Herta/Someone, now, there's a bunch of other people who just don't have interactions with like anyone, meaning scum could very easily be in there, and any number of them, it scares me how Herta like fits with anyone, so that probably means herta is with no one, hmmm

tldr: a bunch of thoughts, I started thinking and going on a tangent lol I still want Gryff voted out! ty! oh and can anyone tell me I'm not crazy for thinking Penguin town? he does a lot more gifs/joking around as scum, and is actually giving thoughts, thus I'm thinking he's town, but for whatever reason now I'm thinking he's Gryff's partner, which could also go with how he's pushing for Klick so much


ahhhhhhh lmaooo I did not intend to break my brain this morning, but yall be confusing!

[Andante]

Ayyy I'm here!! lets not end day right now tbh
plz and ty

[Andante]

DOG

DOG

[Andante]

VOTE: red

[Andante]

actually I think VOTE: Herta is better than red right now

[Andante]

Isn't gamma sick? Like, I was good with just letting Gamma chill till she felt better, nothing worse than feeling like shit and having to fight for your "life" in the game

(Hope you're starting to feel better Gamma!!!)

I guess Gryff is being given a free pass? Gryff literally said Shirou is one of 2 people doing the most here... SHIROU.. like are we serious? then had 1 post of "omg my first game back I don't wanna die!" and everyone is like "oh no! how dare we vote gryff!!" like, if you don't want to be voted out, do stuff? cause you're just sitting there "andante maf!" like, what? it's not funny, you refuse to answer my "how the heck has shirou done the most in your opinion" but hey, you keep talking about how I'm clearly scum, at least fire is over there giving reasoning, you're just like "omg yall, andante is so obviously scum" over and over, like, that's not playing the game?

[Andante]

There's a list. Neat.

this post is scummy

[Andante]

Can we lim Herta instead of Gamma? por favor

[Andante]

Isn't gamma sick? Like, I was good with just letting Gamma chill till she felt better, nothing worse than feeling like shit and having to fight for your "life" in the game

(Hope you're starting to feel better Gamma!!!)

I guess Gryff is being given a free pass? Gryff literally said Shirou is one of 2 people doing the most here... SHIROU.. like are we serious? then had 1 post of "omg my first game back I don't wanna die!" and everyone is like "oh no! how dare we vote gryff!!" like, if you don't want to be voted out, do stuff? cause you're just sitting there "andante maf!" like, what? it's not funny, you refuse to answer my "how the heck has shirou done the most in your opinion" but hey, you keep talking about how I'm clearly scum, at least fire is over there giving reasoning, you're just like "omg yall, andante is so obviously scum" over and over, like, that's not playing the game?

I have like five different issues with this post

let me guess, issue#1 is I don't instantly want to kill gamma?

[Andante]

There have been times where you have felt clearly town and that has been correct
This is not one of those times

And what times were those?

Sorry, I only answer questions from people that I decide are asking in good faith

Really? We're playing this game? fine, I'll ask the question, what part of the game did gamma clearly feel town to you?

[Andante]

VOTE: Klick

mehh herta I'll return to you later

[Andante]

Can we lim Herta instead of Gamma? por favor

Andante

do you not think 624 is tunnelling on Gryff? So much so that your scum reads of other players like Gamma and Herta are based on their likeliness to be scum partners with Gryff, who may I remind you is not confirmed scum.

Skews yours reads of other players until we know what Gryff flips. Why were you so happy to change off Gryff so quickly to Herta when in 624 it was all Gryff?

Gryff is scum, no freaking chance they're town here, I also know yall all refuse to lim Gryff here cause ATE=Town so whatever, Herta is a really good next option, not sure how you're shocked I want herta here

[Andante]

I'm man enough to admit I might have overestimated Shirou's contributions

In the same post you called me scum you called Shirou one of the best town, when all he had really done was call me town.. so if the same thoughts that called shirou mega town were overstated, don't you think you might be wrong on your read of me? no? lmao right, cause you're scum trying to tunnel me solely cause no one else wants to

[Andante]

Ayyy I'm here!! lets not end day right now tbh
plz and ty

Why don't you want to kill scum?

What makes gamma scum?

[Andante]

, my scumdar is pinged based on the way you've been acting being very similar to my own experiences as scum, though I openly admit I've never played with you, so I have no knowledge on whether this is just your normal behavior or how good you are at potentially hiding it

also, when I'm here it's "I have no idea your playstyle, so I'm not super confident in this" but when I'm not here, it's literally "andante is scum"

and you wonder why I'm locked on to my sr of you? nothing you're doing changes my mind

[Andante]

Can we lim Herta instead of Gamma? por favor

Andante

do you not think 624 is tunnelling on Gryff? So much so that your scum reads of other players like Gamma and Herta are based on their likeliness to be scum partners with Gryff, who may I remind you is not confirmed scum.

Skews yours reads of other players until we know what Gryff flips. Why were you so happy to change off Gryff so quickly to Herta when in 624 it was all Gryff?

Gryff is scum, no freaking chance they're town here, I also know yall all refuse to lim Gryff here cause ATE=Town so whatever, Herta is a really good next option, not sure how you're shocked I want herta here

How am I scum

You're not town, and I've told people over and over why I sr you, I can ask you the same question and your answer is literally "how you play is scummy" at least for me I can point to game related stuff you've said

[Andante]

There have been times where you have felt clearly town and that has been correct
This is not one of those times

And what times were those?

Sorry, I only answer questions from people that I decide are asking in good faith

Really? We're playing this game? fine, I'll ask the question, what part of the game did gamma clearly feel town to you?

Your question is different than hers!
I thought it was clear from the surrounding context but I was saying that I've thought Gamma has been obvtown in games that aren't this one

I mean, Gamma is literally sick right now, so much of an impact do you think that has on this game?
I hate seeing the unfriendly (I know there's another word for it) tone the back and forth is going, so can we please try to keep it nice!! Like, at the end of the day, we're all people, no need to get mean, even if we're annoyed... I know I'm not the best either at this, but yeah... the whole "I only answer.." like, at that point, just ignore, or ask to rephrase the question...

VOTE: Herta
back to scum! lets go!

[Andante]

Andante just tunnels in on people. Struggling to trust her reads to be honest.

Gryff/Herta/red is at least a 2/3

trust that or don't up to you. Klick vote was just a "hey! we're playing nice!'

[Andante]

the speed of this is insane right now lol, I hit "submit" see like 2 messages I missed, wooooo

[Andante]

, my scumdar is pinged based on the way you've been acting being very similar to my own experiences as scum, though I openly admit I've never played with you, so I have no knowledge on whether this is just your normal behavior or how good you are at potentially hiding it

also, when I'm here it's "I have no idea your playstyle, so I'm not super confident in this" but when I'm not here, it's literally "andante is scum"

and you wonder why I'm locked on to my sr of you? nothing you're doing changes my mind

Well lucky for you after this game you'll never deal with me again, because I won't be joining games with you in the future even if I stick around

damn.. I'm sorry!!! I didn't mean to upset you!!!

[Andante]

Protecting your scum buddy?

exactly! I show up after forgetting about the game, see my buddy is on e-1, and instead of just hiding till someone hammers, I go "Can we yeet my sr plz"

gamma might be scum sure, but I actively sr gryff and herta

[Andante]

andante i swear if u do that thing u always do with me where u ignore me talking to u.
Idk i might just flip a random table over.

or maybe get a voodoo doll of u and stab it with needles.

nooo not the table!
what's up?

[Andante]

I hate seeing the unfriendly (I know there's another word for it) tone the back and forth is going, so can we please try to keep it nice!! Like, at the end of the day, we're all people, no need to get mean, even if we're annoyed... I know I'm not the best either at this, but yeah... the whole "I only answer.." like, at that point, just ignore, or ask to rephrase the question...

Gamma did exactly this to Brickwalll
Why is it notable when I do it back to Gamma but not when Gamma does it to Brickwalll

I wasn't around for gamma and brick, I'm around now, I saw it, I shut it down

[Andante]

What's up fire, I'm here for a few minutes then I'm out again, I'm kinda not in the mood for this right now 834 has me sad, but you clearly wanna talk so leggo

[Andante]

andante for ur favorite fellow dog player.
why is gamer scum again.

pretend im a big dumbie

@andante

(Gryff said they prefer Gryff to Gamer)

So Gryff said Shirou was 1 of 2 people who have done the MOST this game, and in that same post essentially called me scum for my playstlyle, I asked "what has shirou even done??" got no answer, and instead got yelled at for my playstyle some more and there was a comment that pissed me off felt childish, idk, if you look at my iso control f "childish" you'll see that and I was looking at interactions, I can definitely see Gryff scum with Herta, the two of them fit perfectly tbh

[Andante]

Please can we lim Gamma now?

Gamma is e-1 why not ask for a claim?

[Andante]

Screw it, I'm just gonna say it. If you wanna vote me out, I don't care anymore.

I came back because I missed this game, but it seems the same thing that made me leave in the first place is here too. You can't judge every player the same. I'm old. I'm rusty, I work two jobs and can barely make it one day fully conscious anymore. I've never been good at this game, but I like playing. But I was always first on chopping block because nobody likes my style of play. And yes, I don't have a lot to say Day 1 because it's Day fucking 1. You can't gleam much from that, and surprise surprise, people look for an easy wagon. When you're down two townies tomorrow because you voted me out, would it be worth it?

I should've never come back. The mental stress of this is too much for me to handle. Maybe I just longed for the simpler days, before the endless bore of the daily grind, before the incessant cyberbullying I've suffered that almost made me a shut-in. Maybe I just wanted to relive the innocence of my youth. I've always sucked at this, but I do what I can. But I don't have the time or patience to wait around a month for another game. You all get to play together all the time, that much is obvious. This was my way of testing the waters of whether it was worth it to come back, but as always, I get the short end of the stick. I've always been easy pickings for scum to push a mislim on me, because I'm not good at the game. I wanted a little more excitement in my life, but maybe I'm not meant to have it.

Intent to hammer in 16 hours

this just doesnt feel like a scum post.

I mean, wagon flying to gryff, yeah, I can see that frustration being frustration for town or scum what part of it "isn't a scum post"

[Andante]

, my scumdar is pinged based on the way you've been acting being very similar to my own experiences as scum, though I openly admit I've never played with you, so I have no knowledge on whether this is just your normal behavior or how good you are at potentially hiding it

also, when I'm here it's "I have no idea your playstyle, so I'm not super confident in this" but when I'm not here, it's literally "andante is scum"

and you wonder why I'm locked on to my sr of you? nothing you're doing changes my mind

Well lucky for you after this game you'll never deal with me again, because I won't be joining games with you in the future even if I stick around

damn.. I'm sorry!!! I didn't mean to upset you!!!

It's fine, just, sheesh, the way you're speaking reads to me like you're actively angry. If I made you upset for some reason, I'm sorry

I'm not angry anymore no! definitely was with the childish whatever (I don't remember exactly what was said, I'm not looking it up) I've moved on to honestly just annoyed now like you're have this whole post talking about whatever, then drop in "Andante is scum" and that's all you say about me, like, yeah I'll acknowledge I'm getting tunneled onto you, then I see the comment like "I'm never playing with you again andante" and I'm like, "idk what to make of that, guess I just keep you in the scum pile" it's not even like I'm limming you now, I want herta, and hey, we'll have information tomorrow I'm sure

[Andante]

You can be excused for not knowing my meta but not knowing my personality is a far fucking cry from what I’d expect of you

What kind of game are we playing right now? like, this sentence alone just makes me wanna hammer it lol

[Andante]

Please can we lim Gamma now?

Gamma is e-1 why not ask for a claim?

Because I’m not dropping the hammer and thus wouldn’t want them to claim prematurely. When someone gives intent they can claim.

Why you trying to out a role early?

So, you asking for someone to lim gamma is fine, but me going "you're gonna want to ask for a claim" is role fishing and not fine? wtf? in case you missed it, this game is moving at a million miles a second, people just popping in? have NO IDEA gamma is on e-1 and you're setting up for someone to accidentally hammer gamma. Yes I want a claim before we lim the person

[Andante]

Even Andante I don’t 100% know what to make of the defense because when most of the game is pushing me it makes it really fucking easy for scum to pocket me

I mean, I'm not fully defending you lol, you're just null for me, but I see everyone going at you, you've said you're sick, I've literally tried playing mafia when sick before, it sucks, I'd rather just let you be for now, so you can spend whatever energy you have towards playing the game, my reads on gryff/herta are strong enough to where I genuinely don't care what your alignment is right now

[Andante]

UNVOTE:

I don't recall Gamma being toxic back in the day but I could be wrong.

who were u voting? andante? why the unvote?

probably was a gamma vote tbh

[Andante]

Please can we lim Gamma now?

Gamma is e-1 why not ask for a claim?

Because I’m not dropping the hammer and thus wouldn’t want them to claim prematurely. When someone gives intent they can claim.

Why you trying to out a role early?

So, you asking for someone to lim gamma is fine, but me going "you're gonna want to ask for a claim" is role fishing and not fine? wtf? in case you missed it, this game is moving at a million miles a second, people just popping in? have NO IDEA gamma is on e-1 and you're setting up for someone to accidentally hammer gamma. Yes I want a claim before we lim the person

I honestly think at this level it’s inferred that you ask for a claim before you hammer. If not I will explicitly say now will someone please ask for a claim before they hammer Gamma, if they are going to.

I do not want anyone to quick hammer Gamma.

and I'm saying, to those not here, they have NO IDEA gamma was on e-1 so if I just show up, see "can we please lim herta now" I go "sure, that's one of my srs" then place my vote, hammering the day without realizing

[Andante]

Even Andante I don’t 100% know what to make of the defense because when most of the game is pushing me it makes it really fucking easy for scum to pocket me

I mean, I'm not fully defending you lol, you're just null for me, but I see everyone going at you, you've said you're sick, I've literally tried playing mafia when sick before, it sucks, I'd rather just let you be for now, so you can spend whatever energy you have towards playing the game, my reads on gryff/herta are strong enough to where I genuinely don't care what your alignment is right now

Why was gamma's ate genuing and gryff's not?

I didn't even read ate from gamma? I see a gamma post, see the "I have the flu" signature, and I go "awww hope she's feeling better"
not sure on your question here? I don't care about ate, try not to use it at all, I sr Gryff for reasons I've said, but honestly posts like this? congrats, you've jumped ahead of Gryff on the scumminess ranking

[Andante]

i agree too much with what brickwall is posting.
is he parroting my thoughts or am i parroting his thoughts or we just in sync.

ehhh will just town bucket for now

what posts do you agree with? Brick was trying to accuse me of rolefishing when I was like "you realize saying 'can we please lim gamma now?' is setting someone up to accidentally hammer"

[Andante]

idk i think this game is pretty simply andante/gamma and unkown third maybe shirou.
I don't think i have to actually try hard.

no one else is really pinging me.

how am I pinging you

[Andante]

Even Andante I don’t 100% know what to make of the defense because when most of the game is pushing me it makes it really fucking easy for scum to pocket me

I mean, I'm not fully defending you lol, you're just null for me, but I see everyone going at you, you've said you're sick, I've literally tried playing mafia when sick before, it sucks, I'd rather just let you be for now, so you can spend whatever energy you have towards playing the game, my reads on gryff/herta are strong enough to where I genuinely don't care what your alignment is right now

Why was gamma's ate genuing and gryff's not?

I didn't even read ate from gamma? I see a gamma post, see the "I have the flu" signature, and I go "awww hope she's feeling better"
not sure on your question here? I don't care about ate, try not to use it at all, I sr Gryff for reasons I've said, but honestly posts like this? congrats, you've jumped ahead of Gryff on the scumminess ranking

Wait how is gamma posting that she is sick, and then her subsequent posting regarding "don't mess with me, you don't know my meta, you don't want to go there" not AtE?

I said the "you don't know my meta" post was terrible and I wanted to vote her for that alone? not sure your question

[Andante]

Perhaps a genuine mistake could occur, but as town I always make sure where the vote count is before I vote so I would like to other town players would too.

So, you've seen my impulsive playstyle, do you really assume everyone plays as cautiously as you say you do?

[Andante]

idk i think this game is pretty simply andante/gamma and unkown third maybe shirou.
I don't think i have to actually try hard.

no one else is really pinging me.

how am I pinging you

with bells

i think ur forcing content early game and ur posts now about how u think gryff scum doesn't seem like a real case. I actually don't know what that is, but it was def not a i think gryff is scum case.

Forcing content? what's forced? give me something specific.
I gave my reasons I think gryff is scum, it's day 1, how strong of a case on anyone are you expecting? your "case" on me is just "you're forcing content" ok? I have more than twice the posts of half the people here, almost every post is my thoughts, I can't wait to hear the strong scum case on me. again, IT IS DAY 1. SCUM COULD LITERALLY HARDCLAIM HERE AND WE STILL WON'T BE ABLE TO HAVE A SOLID CASE, What info is there? meta? want me to go cite meta? build up a case? yeah no.

[Andante]

i do think gamma/andante make sense as a team with how andante is treating her.
and then she back sided saying she would vote her as soon as called out on possibly defending a scum ally.

like i could see andante trying to protect gamma by shitting up the thread, realize no one was taking it seriously then back pedals immediately to save face and cloud the association. or at least fail badly at it.

So, you want to just keep calling me scum, but you don't want to directly push me?
VOTE: Fire

[Andante]

idk i think this game is pretty simply andante/gamma and unkown third maybe shirou.
I don't think i have to actually try hard.

no one else is really pinging me.

What makes you think Andante is Gamma's buddy instead of just defending a friend

are andante and gamma good friends?

I don't know gamma like at all, Fire if you're so confident I'm scum, why is your vote not on me

[Andante]

I gave my reasons I think gryff is scum, it's day 1, how strong of a case on anyone are you expecting? your "case" on me is just "you're forcing content" ok? I have more than twice the posts of half the people here, almost every post is my thoughts, I can't wait to hear the strong scum case on me. again, IT IS DAY 1. SCUM COULD LITERALLY HARDCLAIM HERE AND WE STILL WON'T BE ABLE TO HAVE A SOLID CASE, What info is there? meta? want me to go cite meta? build up a case? yeah no.

So... you're admitting that your read on me isn't based on anything substantial due to it being D1?

how many times am I saying this right now? I said, ever since you said shirou had done the most, then preferred to go after me than explain it, and now you're claiming you overstated the shirou thing, like, all I tried to do was ask you a simple question, then you went on the offense and were all "NO! DOWN WITH ANDANTE!" yeah, you've been locked into my SRs for a legit reason, not sure how you now think it was for no reason?
Fire said it wasn't a case, IT IS LITERALLY DAY 1, not sure how fire expects giant case??

[Andante]

I think that whole conversation with Herta was terrible, and had no point to it tbh

thus, I would love to

VOTE: Herta

today

[Andante]

Please can we lim Gamma now?

Gamma is e-1 why not ask for a claim?

Because I’m not dropping the hammer and thus wouldn’t want them to claim prematurely. When someone gives intent they can claim.

Why you trying to out a role early?

This is duplicitous
You are both saying you want me voted out and that you don’t want to hammer me
What are you afraid of that makes you unwilling to vote me?

actually no, I was more talking about how brick was trying to get someone to accidentally hammer you, but then brick was all" ANDANTE IS TRYING TO ROLE FISH"

[Andante]

I think that whole conversation with Herta was terrible, and had no point to it tbh

thus, I would love to

VOTE: Herta

today

I don't think it was a conversation. It was me asking you questions and you evading them.

I eventually went "this is literally a waste of time" and moved on, cause like 5 other people were saying stuff I wanted to interact with

[Andante]

ANDANTE WENT BACK TO IGNORING ME.
SHE CANT HELP BUT IGNORE ME.

i swear she does this on purpose!

lmao

[Andante]

i feel like im in grade school where my crush won't acknowledge my existence.
U KNOW I EXIST I BEEN SITTING NEXT TO YOU FOR THE LAST 2 YEARS CINDY

Well you ignored my question about becoming best friends so… sounds like karma.

fair.
i was going to respond but then i distracted by andante. Should have done bros first

dogs before bros!

[Andante]

WAIT, HAPPY BIRTHDAY KLICK!!!!
This player list keeps having birthdays!!!
An Aquarius Army!!!!!

[Andante]

Hi sorry, I'll be around this weekend hopefully, I'm just super busy at the moment, I was like "please tell me I'm dead" nope, of course not lmao can't wait for final 3 (so... dead chat is probably gonna yell at me if wrong.. but I really think... **hammers town** followed by eternal sadness)
I'm town though, so just write me off as town and bam! easy game to solve!
- Got no info last night to share with yall

ok bye, I have exam I haven't studied for. rip. this only ends well.

[Andante]

I love how rather than talking about the Gamma lim at all, yall are all “OMG PENGUIN!!!” like congrats for realizing you ignored him yesterday? Not a single one of you wants to talk about the actual lim we had?

I have thoughts on it I’m not typing out on mobile, but this shift to penguin is wild, why not ask him for a gif list? it’s reads, but in gif form

but yeah, unless I missed it, where’s the Gamma talk?
I was not a fan of that post hammer conversation, and especially seeing a green flip, Gryff is lock scum

VOTE: Gryff

thanks for coming to my ted talk, and now I have 2 hours to get something done… 30 minutes of that will be spent on the bus… hahahahaha I’m toast. k bye. wait 1 sec I loved a post…

[Andante]

And look how that turned out.

I laughed way too hard at this post lol


and yeah… after that mess, I want to take more of a backseat

(also just happens I’m actually busy lol)

[Andante]

like, to talk like that, then not even acknowledge the fact gamma flipped town? yeah, my vote stays here

[Andante]

I love how rather than talking about the Gamma lim at all, yall are all “OMG PENGUIN!!!” like congrats for realizing you ignored him yesterday? Not a single one of you wants to talk about the actual lim we had?

I have thoughts on it I’m not typing out on mobile, but this shift to penguin is wild, why not ask him for a gif list? it’s reads, but in gif form

but yeah, unless I missed it, where’s the Gamma talk?
I was not a fan of that post hammer conversation, and especially seeing a green flip, Gryff is lock scum

VOTE: Gryff

thanks for coming to my ted talk, and now I have 2 hours to get something done… 30 minutes of that will be spent on the bus… hahahahaha I’m toast. k bye. wait 1 sec I loved a post…

What's your read on me?

unsure tbh, cause the day 1 thing where you said you've played for 15 years, I'm definitely seeing it today and you scare me lol this is exactly like me trying to read fireisredsir in our 2000+ post PT where I want to say "you're maf!" but what if you're not maf? I definitely want you around late game cause I think you'll be helpful, I haven't exactly read your posts here on d2, just skimmed, and yeah my brain is kinda just fried right now, I debated just showing up and shitposting tonight but mehh maybe tomorrow afternoon I'll try to organize brain, but guess what yall... I have a 5 mile race tomorrow... do I even remember signing up for it? hahahaha nope. can't wait to fail miserably! oh well. yolo.
this game seems wild, like the silent voices d1 are talking now, and I'm just confused, and words, and bruhhh I don't even know, thinking hard. can someone just solve the game for us and carry me?
sorry I got busy last week, I'm hoping I get stuff done tomorrow for this, otherwise, woooooooooooooooooooooooooooo good times!
not gonna lie I like this notification thing! it tells me the posts I need to look at! can ignore all else jk jk I'd never ignore yall!

ok, bye. I'll be better town member later! maybe I just booby trap my house tonight, and then when mafia try to come kill me, they die! hahahaha then, I become the mvp! wooooooooooo go andante!!

[Andante]

that VC is meh :/

[Andante]

wait, we only have 11 alive. ok, yall have 3 wagons you want, and I want a 4th so.. 4/11. at least one someone in that is town lol ahhh maths. only 11 alive right not though? frick.. sorry town, I suck, I really should step up, cause 11 feels small tbh
for anyone doing maths, in the hypothetical world where I'm a vig, I'm shooting tonight! pew pew!

[Andante]

hi. sorry I've been mia, I genuinely hate when people do nothing, and I feel really bad that that's been me, I'm gonna skim through stuff and see where my reads land

[Andante]

You want to position my suspicion of you as stronger than it is so that you can argue that I shouldn't suspect you strongly

A good way of putting my current read on you is 'everyone else in the game is townier than you'

Of course I don't have solid reasoning for suspecting you, you've not done anything substantial
But there are three scum to find, and other people are giving me reasons to think it's not them, and you're not
You're thinking too much about trying to 'win with me' or otherwise argue against the fact that you have wound up at the bottom of my PoE through virtue of kinda doing nothing

I don't have to have specific things to point at that you've done that are scummy to think that you could very easily be one of the three players in this game with a red Role PM

ahhhhhh I'm so toast, I figured to just go back to the first page where I showed up, this post feels significant, seems odd, like for a post that is essentially just "everyone else is townier, thus I SR you the most" this is a lot of words, and this just reads as scum to me going "yeah soooo I TR everyone, haha, but hey look over here, I bet this flips red!" cause it's probably Klick's partner, and I have no idea who this is referring to, 1 sec, gerain maybe? and if this is gerain, I find it odd that it's just "oh everyone else has been towny, so gerain is scum by default" like hello, has gerain even done anything this game? So null = by default scum?

idk, this post reads weird to me, but I also literally can't concentrate right now, and now I shall try to read more, doesn't look like anyone was talking about this post, so I'm bringing it back up, seems scummy, like, you're going "EVERYONE ELSE IS TOWNY" like, you're saying gerain is the only scum this game? cause if this was actually "I have reasons to tr everyone else, thus I feel gerain is the best lim option here" that's not the vibe I get from reading this

[Andante]

hi. sorry I've been mia, I genuinely hate when people do nothing, and I feel really bad that that's been me, I'm gonna skim through stuff and see where my reads land

lets goooooo

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[Andante]

i am much more interested in Shirou....

ohhh hang on yall, gerain does stuff? I have never seen gerain pick a side... not that I can recall at least lol, but then again I don't focus on much after d1 hahaha

[Andante]

i am much more interested in Shirou....

ohhh hang on yall, gerain does stuff? I have never seen gerain pick a side... not that I can recall at least lol, but then again I don't focus on much after d1 hahaha

there's like no mention of shirou before this post though, like, why say you're interested in someone and leave it at that? not gonna give some thoughts?

[Andante]

DID YOU DO SOMETHING TO TALY!

I THINK YOU MIGHT'VE DONE SOMETHING AND ARE THROWING THE BLAME TO ME?
speaking of, I can't recall anything from taly, ahhhhhhhhhh this feels like I'm back to square 1, "Who's that?" "What was I thinking of them?"

[Andante]

Anyways i don't like wagons and i actually want to hear more from andante who is basically at null for me right now.

Andante stop studying and start solving

Am I still at null for you now?
(My studying got me a B on that exam... No studying probably would've failed both the exam, and at finding scum tbh)

[Andante]

oh, i'm still not taking questions.

This does literally nothing for town, if you're not willing to at least put in the effort to try and scumhunt and discuss, you're just dead weight

I mean, why not just ignore? Or start talking about either the klick or gerain posts before this?

And yall wonder why I'm still set on Gryff!scum, like, that's my 1 read this game that I'm confident is correct. cause a post like this, it's solely to call penguin deadweight, like, why would you want to do that? if you were town, you'd probably go more of the path of "what are your reads looking like" instead of this "you're bad" angle

ok, I'm done reading, does anyone wanna share anything towny Gryff has done? otherwise, I want gryff lim. please and ty. yall can thank me later for being the mvp

[Andante]

Anyways i don't like wagons and i actually want to hear more from andante who is basically at null for me right now.

Andante stop studying and start solving

Am I still at null for you now?
(My studying got me a B on that exam... No studying probably would've failed both the exam, and at finding scum tbh)

Congrats on the exam grade.
Yes you are null

What's your read on Gryff?

[Andante]

Klick (3): redFF, Herta, geraintm
geraintm (3): Klick, PenguinPower, Kowahbunga

Hey Penguin, what happened to your Klick SR? You went from wanting Klick dead to voting WITH him?

[Andante]

oh, i'm still not taking questions.

This does literally nothing for town, if you're not willing to at least put in the effort to try and scumhunt and discuss, you're just dead weight

I mean, why not just ignore? Or start talking about either the klick or gerain posts before this?

And yall wonder why I'm still set on Gryff!scum, like, that's my 1 read this game that I'm confident is correct. cause a post like this, it's solely to call penguin deadweight, like, why would you want to do that? if you were town, you'd probably go more of the path of "what are your reads looking like" instead of this "you're bad" angle

ok, I'm done reading, does anyone wanna share anything towny Gryff has done? otherwise, I want gryff lim. please and ty. yall can thank me later for being the mvp

i could do gryff i guess

do you feel strongly about Klick maf?

[Andante]

Gryff is mafia! If you literally ONLY tr ATE... can't let the ATE get to you

[Andante]

oh, i'm still not taking questions.

This does literally nothing for town, if you're not willing to at least put in the effort to try and scumhunt and discuss, you're just dead weight

I mean, why not just ignore? Or start talking about either the klick or gerain posts before this?

And yall wonder why I'm still set on Gryff!scum, like, that's my 1 read this game that I'm confident is correct. cause a post like this, it's solely to call penguin deadweight, like, why would you want to do that? if you were town, you'd probably go more of the path of "what are your reads looking like" instead of this "you're bad" angle

ok, I'm done reading, does anyone wanna share anything towny Gryff has done? otherwise, I want gryff lim. please and ty. yall can thank me later for being the mvp

like, as I just said, Klick/gerain had just said stuff worth talking about/calling out, yet Gryff decided to go for penguin here?
I'm telling yall, I'm not actively trying to scum case Gryff right now, this finding was just when I was skimming (I gave up on back reading)
Go back to this Gryff post if you have any doubts, and scroll up to the top of the page, stop when you hit this post, it doesn't read like gryff is trying to scum hunt

[Andante]

i don't really feel like continuing to yell at a wall so I'm done.

my vote stays.

I mean, the wall did die...

[Andante]

oh, i'm still not taking questions.

This does literally nothing for town, if you're not willing to at least put in the effort to try and scumhunt and discuss, you're just dead weight

I mean, why not just ignore? Or start talking about either the klick or gerain posts before this?

And yall wonder why I'm still set on Gryff!scum, like, that's my 1 read this game that I'm confident is correct. cause a post like this, it's solely to call penguin deadweight, like, why would you want to do that? if you were town, you'd probably go more of the path of "what are your reads looking like" instead of this "you're bad" angle

ok, I'm done reading, does anyone wanna share anything towny Gryff has done? otherwise, I want gryff lim. please and ty. yall can thank me later for being the mvp

like, as I just said, Klick/gerain had just said stuff worth talking about/calling out, yet Gryff decided to go for penguin here?
I'm telling yall, I'm not actively trying to scum case Gryff right now, this finding was just when I was skimming (I gave up on back reading)
Go back to this Gryff post if you have any doubts, and scroll up to the top of the page, stop when you hit this post, it doesn't read like gryff is trying to scum hunt

There's a simple reason for that

I'm not trying to scum hunt because I'm so overswamped by my jobs and social obligations right now that I don't have the mental or emotional energy to read this topic beyond skimming

I admit I'm trying to scrape by today, but that doesn't mean I'm not still forming opinions by what others are saying

If you're just trying to scrape by, why would you want to pick a fight with someone? Like, if you're not going to scumhunt, at least don't stop others from doing so, I like how a bunch of these posts are just you going "I'm busy!!!" like yeah, we literally all are, I can give yall the play by play of my life this past week, but then it's like, who cares, I'd rather keep my talk game related, sure I sprinkle RL stuff in, it's who I am lol

I just find this odd, like, all D2 I've basically just went "I'm busy, I'll try later" but now, only after votes are flying your way, you're going "I'm so busy, just trying to scrape by" uhhh none of your actions this day really say that. idk, I'm getting annoyed at the "busy as an excuse" after you literally just yelled at me for not being here, yet I've still managed to come up with more thoughts, (you ignored the gerain/klick thoughts) and you're just like "I see what you're saying... not my fault I'm busy" like what? being busy, and derailing the thread are 2 completely different things?

I'm happy leaving my vote here

[Andante]

i wrote a whole damn case? only you and geraint seem interested

I promise I'll read it!!! (I'm so sorry I haven't gotten around to that!!) I'm currently just deadset on voting gryff and don't see myself voting elsewhere today

[Andante]

How is what you're doing any different

lmaooo right, cause this was super friendly? You're calm right now? don't care about us voting you?

[Andante]

oh no! sorry!! I hope tomorrow at work is better!!!
UNVOTE:
not a TR here, but I say, have less stressful day tomorrow! Less stress here might make work less stressful?
(I'll be revoting later)

what if we no lim forever, and scum agree to no kill, and then the game ends in a draw and everyone lives happily ever after? no death!

[Andante]

VOTE: Gryff

[Andante]

I HAD A VISITOR LAST NIGHT, BRUH WAS MY VISITOR EVIL?

[Andante]

If you are evil, I hate to break the news to you, you wasted your action lol but also if you’re good, you probably should’ve went elsewhere visitor lol no parties at my place last night, I hear you tried to wake me up though… grrrr

[Andante]

lol alright I’ll be back later, saw I had something special happen and got excited, was hoping for neighborizor lol meh

also, my reads are wack, I was so certain on Gryff scum it wasn’t funny, not sure the next course of action here, clearly I can’t read for shit, I’m town for sure though so if yall mark me as town, and just solve, I’d love to go with what makes the most sense

[Andante]

I HAD A VISITOR LAST NIGHT, BRUH WAS MY VISITOR EVIL?

why would scum visit you
also i visited you, are you not informed that it was me? just told u had a visitor?

cause scum would want to know my role? duhhhh why else would scum visit!!
yeah I’m told it was you, who are you and what were you doing screaming outside my door last night?
In the event you were like a doc, I didn’t want to tell scum “HEY DOC VISITED ME LAST NIGHT”
so uhh do I get to find out what you were doing or nah?
also idk what a voyer is, can look up later

[Andante]

11. Gamma Emerald. Eliminated D1 as Town Announcing Lazy Hider.
1. Brickwalll. Died N1 as Town Loud Novice Follower
10. GamerGryff. Eliminated D2 as Vanilla Townie
13. Klick. Died N2 as Town Loud Announcing JOAT (Motion Detector-Finder, Watcher-Finder, Neapolitan, Tracker)

So, we have a lot of VTs alive, I'm sure more unclaimed are VT, how are only PRs dying? Like, the Klick kill was definitely odd there, so I feel like scum may have just known him to be PR and that would explain it? but yeah, I'm seeing VT claim after VT claim, and idk something feels off.

[Andante]

11. Gamma Emerald. Eliminated D1 as Town Announcing Lazy Hider.
1. Brickwalll. Died N1 as Town Loud Novice Follower
10. GamerGryff. Eliminated D2 as Vanilla Townie
13. Klick. Died N2 as Town Loud Announcing JOAT (Motion Detector-Finder, Watcher-Finder, Neapolitan, Tracker)

So, we have a lot of VTs alive, I'm sure more unclaimed are VT, how are only PRs dying? Like, the Klick kill was definitely odd there, so I feel like scum may have just known him to be PR and that would explain it? but yeah, I'm seeing VT claim after VT claim, and idk something feels off.

you think maybe some might be lying?

probably, since when do scum tell the truth?

[Andante]

but, I'm gonna wait for the rest of claims before I say more, cause I have a thought, probably best I wait to out it lol I don't wanna influence the rest of claims

[Andante]

eager to claim? hmmm spicy

[Andante]

FREEDOM, PICK ME NEXT!!! so then I never popcorn to Kow, and Kow never claims! hahahahaha

[Andante]

Can we stop discussing who visited who/what was done until we finish the claims, this is like giving the answers to the test, then asking people to take the test, literally just be silent, and wait for claims

lol Shirou beat me to it, I literally got on just to say, "STOP THE ROLE TALK"

[Andante]

Hi sorry, I’m just a VT, tried dying, didn’t work. Sadness. Ok sorry to keep yall waiting, be back later

[Andante]

Hey Freedom, what made you watch Klick last night?

[Andante]

Hey Freedom, what made you watch Klick last night?

I answered in 1719.

What about Klick felt particularly town? It's easy to look at a dead town and call them obv town, I'd like more on this, since it sounds like Klick was your *strongest* TR??

[Andante]

feel like its penguin or kow for lim today

I'm sorry but there's

no way

we aren't limming in the PRs. It can't be all town. It's literally a broken setup no matter how much you try to balance if those claims are all town.

It's a question of who is lying to me...

why do we HAVE to lim in PRs? This feels like an odd way to start the day, like "here's the claims" "ok now we HAVE to lim in the PRs"

[Andante]

feel like its penguin or kow for lim today

I'm sorry but there's

no way

we aren't limming in the PRs. It can't be all town. It's literally a broken setup no matter how much you try to balance if those claims are all town.

It's a question of who is lying to me...

why do we HAVE to lim in PRs? This feels like an odd way to start the day, like "here's the claims" "ok now we HAVE to lim in the PRs"

Are you suggesting we eliminate in VTs instead?
Because you know that at least one PR has to be scum if Shirou and you are trueclaiming.

I’m suggesting that we don’t focus solely on claims, but rather how these people have been playing, my gut reaction is “cool, just ignore PRs, they’ll sort themselves out” I just find it odd others are having the gut reaction of “MUST LIM IN PRS TODAY” like hello? if this ninja does exist, do we really think it’s an existing PR claim? “hello I’m ninja and I announce my visits!!” cause our watcher is useless if we have a ninja, I’m surprised you’re supporting the lim in PRs cause you’re the only one ninja is confirmed to? like based on your reply to me you don’t seem interested limming in VTs?

[Andante]

I don’t think I got to my point, I think it’s dumb to divide this into PR/ not PR, like certain people have just been significantly scummier than others, and if your slot hasn’t done anything all game, you’re in the scum pool too, until you seem towny

[Andante]

I don’t think I got to my point, I think it’s dumb to divide this into PR/ not PR, like certain people have just been significantly scummier than others, and if your slot hasn’t done anything all game, you’re in the scum pool too, until you seem towny

I'll put it simpler for you Andante:

There's only two non cleared VTs, there's

confirmed scum

in the PRs if this is a 3-player team. If you town lean any of PP/Kowah, there's likely more than one scum from your pov as well in the PRs.

If someone thinks either me or you are scum, they still have to likely sort Firebringer first, another PR.

It's like having counterclaims (because town would be too powerful for it all to be true) and then someone saying "eh, they'll just resolve themselves on one night, let's maybe lim outside of it?"

No...that doesn't make any sense, all of the VTs right now can be town theoretically but all of the PRs

cannot

be town theoretically.

makes sense makes sense, this is hurting my brain lol I guess in my head we have a lot more people alive than we actually do ahhhhhhh

[Andante]

and I know you mapped a bunch out, I'm sorry I tried reading it!!

tbh I wanna
VOTE: Herta

Like, Herta has dissapeared, and isn't participating in this "what do we do?" convo, feels sus, and I previously SRed herta before

[Andante]

A Motion Detector is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. A Motion Detector should receive the same result if they see an action being performed by their target as they would if they see an action being performed on their target (and the same if they see both). If their target is Ascetic or targeted by a Rolestopper, they should receive a "No Result" pm, the same as if they'd been blocked themselves. A Motion Detector would not see a Ninja performing a kill.

I'm going to confirm with Mod.

Like, why would a motion detector see a ninja? and more often than not all the "I will check with mod" / "mech talk" is from scum, plus I'm not really seeing herta do... anything?

[Andante]

I'm the motion detector. Geraintm night 1 and there was movement. Kowabungah Night 2 no movement

Why are you leaving out part of it?

Huh

The roaming part? I forgot about it until i went back and checked

seeing how everyone has some kind of modifier, the "oh I forgot" really doesn't seem like this is town, like back when I was a macho vig, I didn't really recall macho, but I knew the vig, and I knew there was something prior, I can't be the only one who will go figure out what the heck a modifier is, before the game starts, plus if you're claiming, you KNOW there's a modifier, even if you don't remember what it was, so you can go back and check it before claiming...

idk, I feel like yall are ignoring Herta here, and this is my strongest SR

[Andante]

and I know you mapped a bunch out, I'm sorry I tried reading it!!

tbh I wanna
VOTE: Herta

Like, Herta has dissapeared, and isn't participating in this "what do we do?" convo, feels sus, and I previously SRed herta before

Nope, never this

never?

[Andante]

I would be really surprised if Geraintm isn't scum at this point, so I think I'm at something like:

Geraintm - scum

one of [Freedom/Fire]

one of [Kowah/Herta/PP]

I think if Fire is scum we need a watcher here perhaps to balance it out. I think one of Fire/Freedom makes some sense as town in this setup but not both, and I don't think it makes a lot of sense for neither to be town as well if Geraint is scum, we would only have one more motion detector while scum has Voyeur + Watcher + Whatever Fire really is

One of [Freedom/Fire] is probably town and the other one is scum I think.

I'm really confused on who third scum may be, I think it's not impossible for it to be a traitor and that's why some interactions feel so weird between potential parnters.

If there's a traitor and Fire is scum, maybe his real role is unloyal visitor and he has been searching for his traitor or something, I don't know, that's where I'm at.

See, here's my thinking, we don't have any protective roles, so we could argue watcher is that prot. However, with ninja, watcher is useless, so I'm sus of this watcher claim, no way fire doesn't die tonight if real, and I SR herta, soooo I wanna lim herta, and scum can sort the rest tonight

[Andante]

Like, why would a motion detector see a ninja? and more often than not all the "I will check with mod" / "mech talk" is from scum, plus I'm not really seeing herta do... anything?

Ninja is a modifier that can only apply to a single action, for example the nightkill and not your other abilities. It's possible.

I looked up ninja to see if it even was an option, wiki says " Ninja is a player who can perform actions that cannot be seen by a Tracker, Watcher, or similar role;" exactly what you'd think, not sure why we must "go to the mod" to see if motion detector sees a ninja, just look up the answer?

[Andante]

See, here's my thinking, we don't have any protective roles, so we could argue watcher is that prot. However, with ninja, watcher is useless, so I'm sus of this watcher claim, no way fire doesn't die tonight if real, and I SR herta, soooo I wanna lim herta, and scum can sort the rest tonight

Why do you assume there's a protective in the setup, the idea behind this setup seems to be having a lot of individually low impact night investigations that later on in massclaim makes us perhaps able to figure out a thing or two

That's why there's so many PRs as well, because they are all individually weak in this setup. Having a Ninja to nerf tracker/watcher makes sense if that is the idea.

This is why I don't make setups lol, I just feel like there always has to be some sort of prot, but I guess instead of prot you just go with lots of PRs

ok, sheeping you, you know what you're talking about!

VOTE: gerain
(I still think herta is maf)

[Andante]

I don't even get why gerain is so confident herta is town

[Andante]

BRUH I just read next line of ninja from wiki

"Ninja actions cannot be seen performing actions by action-investigative roles (e.g. Tracker, Watcher, Voyeur, Follower, and Motion Detector)"

VOTE: Herta

You're telling me you wanted to discuss ninja options, but literally didn't visit the wiki??? HELLO?? it literally says motion detector can't see ninja. I fail to believe Herta is claiming their truthful role, there's no freaking way

[Andante]

I'm not sure what I could have done in the game BTW to not get in this posisition where people are reading me as scum.
I've not lied, I've explained all ynreads and yet and getting pushed and I don't know why

I don't feel like you've explained this Herta lock town thing or whatever, and tbh I can't recall much else from you, but then again, my focus is on herta right now

[Andante]

I don't even get why gerain is so confident herta is town

Exactly. From his pov there should be 5 other slots that can likely be scum in the game, and Herta is one of them.

If you remove Herta from that pool as well, scum team is almost obvious as 3/4 of [PP, Fire, Freedom, Kowah]

I don't understand how he can be town and simply have "no scum reads" at the moment when if you take Herta out of the PoE you basically have 75% chance of hitting scum at random.

It's like. If he's town I'm not sure what kind of contribution I can expect from him in the end of the game? I think if he's town Herta can easily be scum and the fact he doesn't see it puzzles me

Yeah exactly, he's not playing as if herta is clear, and making the reads there, and he's not defending herta other than like "town cause I say!" that being said, I still want to flip herta

like, who does gerain think is scum? I don't know

[Andante]

Like....I could have been 100% played by scum herta, but if so I've been well played

... so when herta flips red you'll go back to this like "oh well!" after all the "no, stop. herta lock town"

WHAT. IS. THE. TOWN. CASE. FOR. HERTA

[Andante]

BRUH I just read next line of ninja from wiki

"Ninja actions cannot be seen performing actions by action-investigative roles (e.g. Tracker, Watcher, Voyeur, Follower, and Motion Detector)"

VOTE: Herta

You're telling me you wanted to discuss ninja options, but literally didn't visit the wiki??? HELLO?? it literally says motion detector can't see ninja. I fail to believe Herta is claiming their truthful role, there's no freaking way

In the description of motion detector, we have "A Motion Detector would not see a Ninja performing a kill."
herta has literally scum claimed here with the "I'm asking mod about ninja" and dissapearing

[Andante]

A Motion Detector would not see a Ninja performing a kill.

Like, you're QUOTING THE ACTUAL DESCRIPTION! Why do you need to go verify with mod??? and like, tell us you are? that's the kind of thing if I actually had the question I'd ask in private, for my own info. Herta is scum. ok, goodbye.

[Andante]

I go too!
VOTE: gerain