Mini Normal 2288: Reposting Same Picture As Flavor Are Lame

[redFF]

hello, first time playing a while

VOTE: gamma emerald

[redFF]

oh wait one more thing on this actually, sorry I get super distracted. I find it interesting though that your first post is "hey yall I want daily reads lists" it seems odd, like I like seeing what people naturally do, like often if town posts a readslist, and it's the first main one of the game, then scum see it, panic, and post one solely to look towny, it's kinda why I don't start asking for lists from people till later, not post 1 day 1... hmm at first I really liked your post, but now I'm like "wait up.. not actually as towny as I think" and now it's "you're overthinking this.." hahaha ok, moving on. must. keep. reading!

i thought that too, a little try hard, trying to look town type stuff

but im more leaning its not alignment indicative.

[redFF]

VOTE: andante

hi everyone

Yeah, actually, what specifically makes you park your rvs vote on me... could pick gamer, haschel, gamma, or penguin
yet you opted to join the vote on me. Please share why

I decided pre-game I would vote the first person voted, I'm not sorry it was you.

thinking about RVS strategy in pre-game?
good enough for me
VOTE: kowabungah

[redFF]

VOTE: Kowahbunga

Let's kill scum on Page 3

You spelled "Andante" wrong.

Do you scum read andante?

[redFF]

i don't really get the focus on kow's vote tbh...

also don't think andante's response to it was scum indicative rather than just andante indicative though

Regarding Kow, my thoughts...

1. Why does town need to plan what they are going to do for RVS in the pregame?

2.

That’s entirely fair
I just had the idea in pregame so I figured I’d vocalize it immediately.

VOTE: andante

hi everyone

Yeah, actually, what specifically makes you park your rvs vote on me... could pick gamer, haschel, gamma, or penguin
yet you opted to join the vote on me. Please share why

I decided pre-game I would vote the first person voted, I'm not sorry it was you.

I think the justification of his RVS vote being "i decided pre-game" could have easily just been stolen from Gamma saying that she decided pregame to ask everyone to post a reads list. sort of "i'm getting pushed on my RVS vote, how do I explain it, i'll just say what Gamma said..."This is a bit of a reach but it did seem weird to me and worth pointing out.

[redFF]

agree that gryff's observation was a nothing post.

still like my kow vote

[redFF]

It is day 1, there is pretty much nothing anyone can do which should set off a real scum ping.

do you really think this ?

[redFF]

lets just eliminate kow y'all im pretty sure he scumslipped in RVS and his longer posts read like flailing

[redFF]

happy bday

andante

how do you feel about the votes on

gamer

?

-

pedit

seems we're on the same page

<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">

@PP

91<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"><br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">we got good traction on

gamer

me no want unvote<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">

<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">What's the reasoning for a gamer vote?

I agree with

Gamer's

philosophy that a lot of noise can make it difficult to sort D1 and in reflection for later dayphases, but this and coupled with the indifference to

Kowabungah

wagon without really asserting a stance or push gave me "active but coasting" vibe.

So that gave me "I wanna poke" vibe.

Also, I was voting

Gamer

prior to

Geraint

, so it's never accurate to describe my vote as sheeping here.

This is all I have time to respond to right now due to work but I want to make a single point in regards to the "indifference" to the Kow wagon:

At what point did I ever say I was indifferent to it? I've been saying up and down how foolish and hasty it is to bandwagon so early D1. I'm not indifferent to any of the bandwagons here.

I'm also very against this "get the day done quick" nonsense. That's not getting people talking and having chance to slip up. Do I necessarily think that's a scumtell? No, but I'll be looking over later today and probably putting my vote there for trying to prevent discussion.

I'll say this as my closing thoughts for this post: if you agree with wanting to get the day done quickly, for the towns health you should be voting for no kills today (or no limm? Is that what we call it now?). Rather than rush through and, in all likelihood, lose two townies through dayvote and night death, consider giving people a chance to breath and think rationally rather than rushing around like a chicken with your head cut off.

disagree, we don't know the setup and voting to lim someone is one of town's best weapons against scum. im STRONGLY opposed to a NL

[redFF]

happy bday

andante

how do you feel about the votes on

gamer

?

-

pedit

seems we're on the same page

<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">

@PP

91<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"><br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">we got good traction on

gamer

me no want unvote<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">

<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">What's the reasoning for a gamer vote?

I agree with

Gamer's

philosophy that a lot of noise can make it difficult to sort D1 and in reflection for later dayphases, but this and coupled with the indifference to

Kowabungah

wagon without really asserting a stance or push gave me "active but coasting" vibe.

So that gave me "I wanna poke" vibe.

Also, I was voting

Gamer

prior to

Geraint

, so it's never accurate to describe my vote as sheeping here.

This is all I have time to respond to right now due to work but I want to make a single point in regards to the "indifference" to the Kow wagon:

At what point did I ever say I was indifferent to it? I've been saying up and down how foolish and hasty it is to bandwagon so early D1. I'm not indifferent to any of the bandwagons here.

I'm also very against this "get the day done quick" nonsense. That's not getting people talking and having chance to slip up. Do I necessarily think that's a scumtell? No, but I'll be looking over later today and probably putting my vote there for trying to prevent discussion.

I'll say this as my closing thoughts for this post: if you agree with wanting to get the day done quickly, for the towns health you should be voting for no kills today (or no limm? Is that what we call it now?). Rather than rush through and, in all likelihood, lose two townies through dayvote and night death, consider giving people a chance to breath and think rationally rather than rushing around like a chicken with your head cut off.

disagree, we don't know the setup and voting to lim someone is one of town's best weapons against scum. im STRONGLY opposed to a NL

It's precisely the fact we don't know the setup that is why we shouldn't waste lives unless we're sure. We may not have many to go around. Assuming with a setup this big there's at least three scum that gives us three days of wrong lims max before they win. And that's assuming there's only one enemy faction. For all we know there could be two mobs or a third party with an agenda against our own.

according to normal game guidelines its just one scumteam and no 3p for a mini normal

[redFF]

yea what did i do!

[redFF]

What argument do you have for

Haschel

or

redFF

to be in that pool?

Haschel is no content thus no town telling. Red I'll take a look at. I recall him asking a few questions but nothing striking.

so every player not on the list has "town told" ?

[redFF]

What argument do you have for

Haschel

or

redFF

to be in that pool?

Haschel is no content thus no town telling. Red I'll take a look at. I recall him asking a few questions but nothing striking.

so every player not on the list has "town told" ?

No just their range is such that they could go either way for me and I think we can figure it out as we go.

ok, thanks

[redFF]

redFF - Mostly nothing posts, though his take in #182 intrigues me. @redFF can you explain your thoughts on Kow scumslipped in RVS?

outlined here

i don't really get the focus on kow's vote tbh...

also don't think andante's response to it was scum indicative rather than just andante indicative though

Regarding Kow, my thoughts...

1. Why does town need to plan what they are going to do for RVS in the pregame?

2.

That’s entirely fair
I just had the idea in pregame so I figured I’d vocalize it immediately.

VOTE: andante

hi everyone

Yeah, actually, what specifically makes you park your rvs vote on me... could pick gamer, haschel, gamma, or penguin
yet you opted to join the vote on me. Please share why

I decided pre-game I would vote the first person voted, I'm not sorry it was you.

I think the justification of his RVS vote being "i decided pre-game" could have easily just been stolen from Gamma saying that she decided pregame to ask everyone to post a reads list. sort of "i'm getting pushed on my RVS vote, how do I explain it, i'll just say what Gamma said..."This is a bit of a reach but it did seem weird to me and worth pointing out.

[redFF]

Hello, I have read nothing that happened since the site went down for the upgrade and I also probably missed some stuff before that. Diving in now...

any updates on this big dog

[redFF]

yea im not buying the reasoning behind brick's gamma vote and push, but he is a newer player

[redFF]

andante get back on kow !

[redFF]

when is haschel gonna post somethign!

[redFF]

Vote: PenguinPower

He knows why.

Hello, I have read nothing that happened since the site went down for the upgrade and I also probably missed some stuff before that. Diving in now...

come on bruH!

[redFF]

kowabunga/herta/????

[redFF]

kowabunga/herta/????

I think you should replace me with Shirou.

why would i do that ?

[redFF]

kowabunga/herta/????

I think you should replace me with Shirou.

why do u think i'm scum?

A marked lack of substance.

thats all u got ?>?

[redFF]

FOS: Herta

[redFF]

Kow your opinion here is wrong on NL day 1. They did the math many years ago.

[redFF]

Kow your opinion here is wrong on NL day 1. They did the math many years ago.

Well, they forgot to carry a one or round the decimal or something. Maybe they forgot to multiply by logic.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21947

here is an old thread worth reading on this very subject !

[redFF]

Kow your opinion here is wrong on NL day 1. They did the math many years ago.

Well, they forgot to carry a one or round the decimal or something. Maybe they forgot to multiply by logic.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21947

here is an old thread worth reading on this very subject !

I disagree with all of those points in that thread. I don't think any of that math takes in to account town powers and the odds those hit correctly. It's all looked at a stripped down basic "there are just town and there are just scum and they do nothing but vote" - games are not usually that simple - I also think it's a negative way to look at it and that having more town alive is always better than less town alive. Claiming that less town alive means a greater chance to lynch scum is a defeatist attitude.

Anyways, I don't want to get into it any more as it will take away from this game.

ok ! I tried

[redFF]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: herta

how about this

[redFF]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: herta

how about this

what are your thoughts on Kow after those posts?

his wagon has lost steam and the big walls he's posting read like genuine frustration

[redFF]

Kow

, let's just say we do no-lim, what is the benefit if you don't give content outside of the

Andante

tunnel?

My thing is this, a no-lim guarantees no wagon on a town power that gets to L1 and has to claim it to stay alive. A no lim means everyone has a night to potentially do something, and odds say if the scum have to pick randomly from the town (because, ya know, they lack any sort of indication about us at all), that they'll miss town powers. The game can really start on D2. Then there's at least people alive who maybe have information to be able to watch how things work and watch that player they know the truth about.

At this point though, it would probably be dumb to no lim this day. I'm more of an advocate of people using their first post in d1 to do it and not say anything. Scum have probably already sorted us and have an idea of who they're killing.

I just look at it from a RL perspective. Let's say this was actually happening and we had to kill people in our town to eradicate the bad people. Wouldn't you want as much information as you can get before making that decision? Or are you really okay just randomly picking someone on the basis of "maybe?" Obviously this isn't real life, but i just see a no lim allowing more town to be alive d2, and more information to come from d2 than the information we get from a d1 elimination on a player that is probably the easiest wagon to cast doubt on as to who was or wasn't on it.

It's obvious I'm in the minority though. Which really seems weird because I feel like I'm all the time reading posts from people about how much they hate D1, and then I present an alternative and it's shot down.

I'll leave with you some light reading: viewtopic.php?t=21947

i posted this exact thread earlier ITT lol he disagrees

[redFF]

this site is generally more focused on day play/discussion/reading people through their posts, then by solving the game through night actions.

[redFF]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: herta

how about this

what are your thoughts on Kow after those posts?

his wagon has lost steam and the big walls he's posting read like genuine frustration

Ok, do you have any actual thoughts on these ideas in his big walls? Specifically your thoughts on 434 please, that's not "genuine frustration" and that's actual game related content from kow, so what do you think of it?
(I try not to TR people off of emotions, that's a recipe for disaster)

#434 is a legit useless post, brings zero to the table.
"he could be town, he could be scum"

i unvoted cause the wagon is going nowhere and this post right here could be AtE but is the towniest hes looked.

Anyways, I look forward to being scum read for my opinions on how the game should be played. Don't feel bad about it, it always happens when I make this post.

I don't have any reads on anyone else. There will never be a list today. It will all be in the moment. I will look at wagons, and I will question weird votes. I will decide if I believe role claims and results when they're presented.

In fact, just consider this intent to hammer the first E1 I see. Even if it's me.

I also had a thought that i could be mistaking being wrong and inexperience for scumminess

[redFF]

this site is generally more focused on day play/discussion/reading people through their posts, then by solving the game through night actions.

so have you actually read 434?

i responded to you on this already

[redFF]

but i townlean kow, i really doubt scum doubles down on takes that have been widely suspected or rebuked as objectively suboptimal play

yea, at some point scum just goes OK i was wrong to get the heat off them

[redFF]

Yo yo

I’m gonna have fun this game
My first action is calling the first person who says hi to me town.

The second person gets me tunneled on them

Go

welcome, your slot has not posted

[redFF]

more votes on herta !

[redFF]

i was busy this weekend so ive lost the thread a little

[redFF]

AtE incoming, for realz, yo.

This is my first game back in 5 years, and ya'll wanna vote me out day 1. How am I suppose to get my sea legs back if ya'll don't let me play? It's day one and ya'll are way overthinking the shit I say. Seriously.

bad post!

[redFF]

im fine wiht this

VOTE: gamergryff

that should be L-1

[redFF]

Given what I'm seeing here, I think andante/Gamma are a pretty safe pairing, though I'll admit I have no idea about anyone else.

I will note, I also absolutely do not like red's minimalistic commentary and focusing on hyper-specific (and imo often irrelevant) details

huh?

[redFF]

UNVOTE:

[redFF]

VOTE: kowabungah

[redFF]

i don't think a blowup like that from gryff is fake

[redFF]

could be down for gamma

[redFF]

VOTE: gamma

lets run it up !

[redFF]

Oh wow. Red's scum now?

nope

[redFF]

andante is town tho, bummer to see his suspicions of me

[redFF]

i wrote the book on herta scum but gamma works too

[redFF]

Screw it, I'm just gonna say it. If you wanna vote me out, I don't care anymore.

I came back because I missed this game, but it seems the same thing that made me leave in the first place is here too. You can't judge every player the same. I'm old. I'm rusty, I work two jobs and can barely make it one day fully conscious anymore. I've never been good at this game, but I like playing. But I was always first on chopping block because nobody likes my style of play. And yes, I don't have a lot to say Day 1 because it's Day fucking 1. You can't gleam much from that, and surprise surprise, people look for an easy wagon. When you're down two townies tomorrow because you voted me out, would it be worth it?

I should've never come back. The mental stress of this is too much for me to handle. Maybe I just longed for the simpler days, before the endless bore of the daily grind, before the incessant cyberbullying I've suffered that almost made me a shut-in. Maybe I just wanted to relive the innocence of my youth. I've always sucked at this, but I do what I can. But I don't have the time or patience to wait around a month for another game. You all get to play together all the time, that much is obvious. This was my way of testing the waters of whether it was worth it to come back, but as always, I get the short end of the stick. I've always been easy pickings for scum to push a mislim on me, because I'm not good at the game. I wanted a little more excitement in my life, but maybe I'm not meant to have it.

Intent to hammer in 16 hours

this just doesnt feel like a scum post.

[redFF]

altho gryff did say they prefer playing scum right?

so it could be a devious manipulative AtE masterclass

but i doubt it from his other posting

[redFF]

VOTE: GamerGryff
Still need that personal PT unlocked

Btw I’d like to make a suggestion for this game: everyone should post a full read list at least once per day phase. You can update when and how you’d like, if you like, but the one list is highly recommended.

this is an interesting first post, originally i said it was NAI

[redFF]

gamma u been literally a snarky asshole and calling someone else a jackass for being snarky back is like hypocritical.

r u just trying to start fights or what

One more thing regarding this
You can be excused for not knowing my meta but not knowing my personality is a far fucking cry from what I’d expect of you
In addition I have been banned twice recently for toxicity, so you may need to update your idea of how I behave with that data

watch out we got a badass ova here !!!

[redFF]

Screw it, I'm just gonna say it. If you wanna vote me out, I don't care anymore.

I came back because I missed this game, but it seems the same thing that made me leave in the first place is here too. You can't judge every player the same. I'm old. I'm rusty, I work two jobs and can barely make it one day fully conscious anymore. I've never been good at this game, but I like playing. But I was always first on chopping block because nobody likes my style of play. And yes, I don't have a lot to say Day 1 because it's Day fucking 1. You can't gleam much from that, and surprise surprise, people look for an easy wagon. When you're down two townies tomorrow because you voted me out, would it be worth it?

I should've never come back. The mental stress of this is too much for me to handle. Maybe I just longed for the simpler days, before the endless bore of the daily grind, before the incessant cyberbullying I've suffered that almost made me a shut-in. Maybe I just wanted to relive the innocence of my youth. I've always sucked at this, but I do what I can. But I don't have the time or patience to wait around a month for another game. You all get to play together all the time, that much is obvious. This was my way of testing the waters of whether it was worth it to come back, but as always, I get the short end of the stick. I've always been easy pickings for scum to push a mislim on me, because I'm not good at the game. I wanted a little more excitement in my life, but maybe I'm not meant to have it.

Intent to hammer in 16 hours

this just doesnt feel like a scum post.

I mean, wagon flying to gryff, yeah, I can see that frustration being frustration for town or scum what part of it "isn't a scum post"

tough to fake

[redFF]

gamma what even are u doing
r u trying to start a figth with me now
im not interested.

give reads or don't. u were being an asshole, i called u out for being a hypocritical asshole.
i don't care if u have a meta for being an asshole. stop it.

watch out dude
shes been ban twice

[redFF]

UNVOTE:

I don't recall Gamma being toxic back in the day but I could be wrong.

who were u voting? andante? why the unvote?

[redFF]

idk i think this game is pretty simply andante/gamma and unkown third maybe shirou.
I don't think i have to actually try hard.

no one else is really pinging me.

i think andante is pretty obvtown, have since page 3

posting walls in the first 3 or 4 pages, shitting up the thread constantly, accusing half the playerlist of being scum, feels town to me

[redFF]

idk i think this game is pretty simply andante/gamma and unkown third maybe shirou.
I don't think i have to actually try hard.

no one else is really pinging me.

i think andante is pretty obvtown, have since page 3

posting walls in the first 3 or 4 pages, shitting up the thread constantly, accusing half the playerlist of being scum, feels town to me

half of this is just her personality.
accusing half the playerlist of scum is more interesting point that i may need to dive into.
scum andante probably not going to ruffle that many feathers that points to her.

someone linked a scum andante game early on and her posting seemed way more reserved

[redFF]

i do think gamma/andante make sense as a team with how andante is treating her.
and then she back sided saying she would vote her as soon as called out on possibly defending a scum ally.

like i could see andante trying to protect gamma by shitting up the thread, realize no one was taking it seriously then back pedals immediately to save face and cloud the association. or at least fail badly at it.

So, you want to just keep calling me scum, but you don't want to directly push me?
VOTE: Fire

lol

[redFF]

gamma has had the sickness in her sig for like a week so its not related to the current wagon

[redFF]

this game is really popping off!

[redFF]

but...wagon...

what if we made a different wagon?
VOTE: Kowabungah

this could be fun!

gg gottem!!
VOTE: Gamma

hmmmmm rvs vote, then disappeared? frozen scum scared to post!!! GG GOTTEM! Game too easy!

VOTE: Haschel

Kow has too many votes for this early. Got my eye on Penguin,red, Klick, and andante. Likely at least one scum on there.

I'm at work, so this is all I'll be able to say for the next fivish hours.

Red and Andante seem okay rn
Other 2 idk

I don't like Gryff's post but Gamma's is not much better. This legitimises poor scum hunting

What do you think of

Gamma

taking

Red

and

Andante

out of that pool?

To me, Gamma’s approach feels opportunistic in that they are jumping on this nothing post and using it as a way to build credibility.

I don’t want to answer for Gamma but I think the really question here, Taly, is why Gamma felt out of those 4 that Red and Andante had done enough to be town, and why the other two are not? I would be interested to hear their rationale on why these two.

Until then, like I said it just seems opportunistic.

I see Gamma answered the above, should have read the full thread before posting. Will be back on this evening, rushing mafia posts is to no one’s benefits.

Like, in 155, you say Gamma answered the above... but then later, you keep yelling at Gamma for not answering 154?? It doesn't make sense to me

VOTE: Brickwall

@Kowah

3 fake reads with some good reasoning

that's all i'm gonna keep asking from you in this game. i need you to prove me and everyone else that you know how to lie so we can move from this.

from our PoV you can just be scum that doesn't know how to lie so far.

I'm really not liking your posts right now, first to show up to talk about "why we shouldn't no lim" and all this non game related talk, like, fake reads, random stuff, it feels like you're scum trying to derail the thread right now
VOTE: Shirou

YOOO so all this ISO talk, I went, how many posts do I have.. I have 80, which is almost 100, we're at 500 posts, 20% of the posts this game are me... I NEED MORE CONTENT FROM YALL!!!! lmaooo ok, I shall do my best to leave the game alone for a bit and let yall talk, also forgot to flip my vote

VOTE: Klick

Klick, can I see a current readslist from you?
(I will respond later! We need less Andante in this, cause 20% of the content being me? it's going to mess up my reads lol)

VOTE: Gryff

VOTE: red

actually I think VOTE: Herta is better than red right now

i do think gamma/andante make sense as a team with how andante is treating her.
and then she back sided saying she would vote her as soon as called out on possibly defending a scum ally.

like i could see andante trying to protect gamma by shitting up the thread, realize no one was taking it seriously then back pedals immediately to save face and cloud the association. or at least fail badly at it.

So, you want to just keep calling me scum, but you don't want to directly push me?
VOTE: Fire

[redFF]

no way that is scum! no way!

[redFF]

Maaaaybe Herta but they've done some town posting

where

[redFF]

Goodnight all have a good day wherever you are in the world!

Happy Borthday Klikk

town post

[redFF]

is that the hammer?

[redFF]

honestly? i respect it

[redFF]

did anyone unvote since l-1?

i think thats the hammer

[redFF]

intent to hammer on page 70, which at this current rate gives gamma 15 minutes to decide if they want to claim anything first

[redFF]

I will say I do believe Gamma was the scummiest of all so, good job everyone

huh?

[redFF]

gamma give us your parting thoughts

[redFF]

I will say I do believe Gamma was the scummiest of all so, good job everyone

huh?

Didn't Kow hammer?

I'm pre-emptively patting us on the back for catching scum

"us" were u on the wagon?

[redFF]

I will say I do believe Gamma was the scummiest of all so, good job everyone

huh?

Didn't Kow hammer?

I'm pre-emptively patting us on the back for catching scum

"us" were u on the wagon?

I was not because that would've been hammer

By chance have you seen Thor Ragnorak? The post-credits scene? I'm doing that bit

i saw it. not a fan.

[redFF]

Hello good morning

[redFF]

Hello good morning

Hi - Are you surprised at all that Andante wasn't the kill?

not really

[redFF]

Hello good morning

Hi - Are you surprised at all that Andante wasn't the kill?

not really

Like I just feel from you pointing out all those votes and how they were literally on everyone yesterday, just seemed like the best option for it early to me.

i think she's town but it's tough to read into the NK too much, brickwall was townread by most too

[redFF]

firstly, sorry for not having been around at the end of the last day, i was in a white van driving round the country.

VOTE: Klick

I will be taking no questions at this time.

i am going to assume you have way more tucked up your sleeve about this. to me it feels like a pretty strong night action.

having seen the two deaths, i can sense a theme running through all the roles

Lazy Shirou just setting off my scumdar btw. i've got nothing more than that on them, but they feel off

geraintm
- does nothing all day 1, explaining that he thinks day 1s are pointless and that's his playstyle, he's not going to do much
- comes in day 2 making an excuse for not being around in day 1, despite already explaining that he thinks day 1s are pointless.
- fishes for a PR on his first post of day 2

VOTE: geraintm

[redFF]

Hello good morning

Hi - Are you surprised at all that Andante wasn't the kill?

not really

Like I just feel from you pointing out all those votes and how they were literally on everyone yesterday, just seemed like the best option for it early to me.

i think she's town but it's tough to read into the NK too much, brickwall was townread by most too

When I look into a player death, I don't look too much into how others are/were reading them though. I more look at what they were saying. Like for me the NK is on the player that gives the least amount of info to town. To which I believe if Andante was town, it should have been them because from my POV of how I review the game, that's who was all over the place D1. So their reads from D1 would just be meaningless to us now because they literally suspected everyone.

So if you don't feel this way, and you feel brickwall was more town read than everyone else (maybe putting words in your mouth so feel free to correct me if this isn't what you meant, I mean you were pretty hard reading Andante as town D1 so for you to say what you said about Brick makes me think you'd be okay saying they were the most town player from D1?), then do you think brickwall had accurate reads on D1?

could be that. im not mafia so i have no insight into why they chose him for a nightkill

[redFF]

Like for me the NK is on the player that gives the least amount of info to town.

there are lots of reasons to NK someone besides this (think they're a PR, think they're a good player, think they have good reads, think they have bad reads but want to use their reads for a ML, etc.)

[redFF]

My point is that from my perspective this would've been the perfect kill for scum, ergo, since she's not dead, she's scum

from your perspective

[redFF]

just because i and a few others have said andante is town, doesn't automatically make her a good kill. she pushed half the playerlist day 1 and dominated the posting during day 1 so why not keep her around if they don't see her as a threat

[redFF]

just because i and a few others have said andante is town, doesn't automatically make her a good kill. she pushed half the playerlist day 1 and dominated the posting during day 1 so why not keep her around if they don't see her as a threat

Because that's active scum hunting if she is town and eventually that gaze is going to make it's way on to them and that means everyone will be under pressure as long as she is in the game.

thats one way to think about it i guess

[redFF]

im town lads, remove me from your scumreads

[redFF]

my explanation of my absence is so people didnt think i deliberately ducked the end of day 1.

who thought that? seems overly defensive

[redFF]

so from what im getting herta playstyle is naturally scummy ?

[redFF]

Honestly

VOTE: Penguin

For not participating

huh?

[redFF]

[redFF]

This town feels a little rudderless, someone should come in and drop a fat juicy case, weve had 50 pages of posts now

[redFF]

Andante i def agree that gryff was being weird post hammer. At the time my thoughts were if gamma flips scum then gryff is likely scum too. I will reread woth the perspective of the gamma town flip and i encourage others to as gryff was actinf strange for sure.

[redFF]

I am up to the end of page 22 and calling it a night but right now I would be happy to vote amongst Shirou/Gamma/Klikk or even Herta.

I agree with PP's white knighting theory the most and had noticed Klikk being extremely helpful and answering questions on my behalf. And like I mentioned the polish nature of there posts comes across as too polished and precise.

Shirou just seems all over the place. The fake reads thing was weird but also the demeanour of just playing lazy and coasting into D2, to vibing and then blackmailing. All a bit off. Perhaps their style but haven't seen anything quite like it.

Gamma - not so much anymore, still scum leaning but think there are better D1 lims.

Herta - seen people talk about them and a couple of discussions. Will have to go ISO and update on this one. I will do an ISO and update for all of them and see if my feelings are the same.

Geraint whilst still on my radar and will keep an eye on but just didn't like post 247. Similar to Gamma I think there are better lims out there for town today.

brick spent most of day 1 pushing gamma and was one of the main driving forces behind that wagon.

other than that his major stated scumreads seem to be shirou, klikk and to a lesser degree herta.

[redFF]

gonna actually VOTE: klikk

[redFF]

Alright so i've gone through klick's ISO for day 1 and made some notes

Vig should shoot geraintm he's probably scum but not at a level where it will be anywhere near conclusive by the end of D1

subtly trying to direct vig shot. if klick flips scum geraintm is probably town.

one thing klick has done is call a lot of people town, mainly gryff, i've added some quotes on that below

I kinda think GamerGryff is easy scum early wagon bait

By that I specifically mean that by Page 7 I could easily see ar least one of Taly/Penguin/geraintm being scum and feeling like Gryff is a comfortable place to be

Yeah Gryff reads as hard town to me

Yeah Gryff reads as hard town to me

Is it really just the lack of fear from getting scumread that supports this?

Yes, though after sleeping on it I think 'hard town' is an exaggeration

to me this is the most damning klick/gryff interaction, and makes me think if klick is scum gryff is likely to be too. defending a possible buddy to a point, and then backing off when called on it. but, as we'll see, he eventually goes back to hard defending gryff.

it can come from town but i don't think gryff should have the image of me as "good"

i feel like he may be scum that i caught early on and that's why he assumes i'm "smart" idk

If I was scum I would try to discredit you. I don't have an ego about myself as scum

I mentioned before I don't consider myself to be particularly good at mafia either, and that's not even factoring in that haven't played in like half a decade.

I believe this self-perception
Gryff is town please unvote

@all

Gryff is incredibly obvious town. If you're town, get your head out of your ass and find somewhere else to vote.

gryff and gamma were competing wagons at this stage. i'd say at this stage if klick ends up being scum then gryff is highly likely to be too.

some people take games too seriously.

if u aren't here to joke and have fun why play

Because I want to learn something

I think it's fine if you want to joke and have fun
But let me do my thing please

no, im forcing u to have fun and joke or ur banned.
Im the police of content of this game.

If ur post doesn't contain at least 2 jokes. U get eliminated.
These are firebringer rules and u will respect my AURITAHY

Oh uh oh gosh the pressure uh
Okay I got one

What do horses say when they've fallen down?

Help, I've fallen and GRYFF IS OBVTOWN WHAT ARE YOU ALL DOING UNVOTE PLS

really quite desperate to get votes off gryff (and therefore on to gamma)


Klick's made a bunch of posts giving townreads to people, all 3 of these read like pocketing to me

Brickwalll is currently my second most confident townread

Shirou feels towny too

redFF makes posts that I agree with and it makes me lightly townread them

generally there was a lot more calling people town than calling people town in Klick's day 1 posting

Yeah Gryff reads as hard town to me

So, I would love to know what exactly made Gryff read as hard town that early lol cause before this, Klick was just in the Kow!Maf boat saying what we wanted to hear?

Klick's ISO is literally only talking to/about
* Me/Kow
* Gryff
* Brickwall

like, that's it, you can't just quote a wall of reads and go "this comes from town" like, do you want to discuss any of those reads? And after last night we learned Klick's 2nd most confident TR was Brick, when like, before last night it was kinda just "brick has a point!" and that was it, not commiting to a read, I went "hey here's my thoughts" which now, I'm like, brick sounds friendly! I like brick a lot!! so sure maybe it's wrong, but the way Klick defends, and that level of confidence, just feels like it comes from TMI

and like, for someone who STARTED THE GAME with a readslist, there has been no update to it. which is odd to me, like, you posted a readslist cause we were like "yeah lists are cool!" and you made a "list" through post 16, which was literally just your read on me? then "brick is my very confident tr" that's not on the list!! I'm still confused where this brick TR came from looking at the ISO, like, it just appeared tbh, and Klick is barely interacting with people, yeah I'm down with this, Shirou is a very close 2nd place for my vote

(This almost feels like I can make a list right now... jk idk where I'd put gamma/gryff on the list)

I do have further thoughts on people
I, in fact, have a full readslist
I am comfortable with the amount I have shared thus far and don't see how it follows that 'having reads that I have not already discussed' leads to 'so Klick must be scum'

here's andante making notes of the fact that klick is calling a bunch of people town and little else. i don't like his response here, claiming that he is keeping things close to the chest and not sharing his scumreads for *reasons*

hey

klick

, we differ greatly in how we solve

i could use some interaction at the moment

I'm down
Any topic in mind? I'm particularly bad at actively probing the thread in ways that actually help me solve
But I'm happy to help

makes an excuse not to scumhunt

I think Gamma is the only person doing any talking right now who is scum

The other two are like geraintm and Penguin or something

ok, finally some scum reads. Gamma, hard lurking geraintm, and penguin who i believe was not posting much content in thread at this stage.

I think geraintm is a pretty good scum equity slot

as far as i can tell, geraint was klick's second biggest scumread after gamma day 1. (please correct me if i'm wrong klick)

My working theory of this game is at least two scum in {geraintm, Herta, PenguinPower, redFF} with one potential deepwolf in {Taly, Shirou, Firebringer, Andante}

again, very non-commital on scumreads. this post really says very little, listing 8 players and vaguely gesturing to 2 or 3 of them being scum. this being one of klick's few posts going into his scumreads combined with the freedom with which he has handed out town-reads feels scummy. buddying, calling players town, but very little active scumhunting or FOS.

so to recap
- Klick buddied up to a bunch of players day 1
- Klick did not call many people scum, was reticient to share scum reads, and when he did, he was purposely as vague as possible
- Klick was a big driver of the day 1 Gamma mislim, but allowed other players (brick) to do most of the hard work
- Klick REALLY did not want gryff lim'd. Combine this with Gryff's scumminess, and the fact that Gamma's wagon was the counter-wagon to gryff, it's highly likely if either gryff/klick flips scum, the other is too

I'm gonna take a look at Klick's day 2 posting soon, maybe tonight maybe not, but I feel this is fairly solid and worth exploring. i've alreayd voted klick as i was going through his ISO, and i think others should do the same.

[redFF]

This town feels a little rudderless, someone should come in and drop a fat juicy case, weve had 50 pages of posts now

See I think there's actually a nonzero chance the scumteam is exactly redFF/Herta/geraintm and they really didn't like the look of my PoE.

It feels really cocky to say that, but redFF wants to shift the momentum of the thread away from where it's currently at, and I'd say the thread momentum is currently on Herta or geraintm as today's elimination.

I was the first to vote geraint today, but its unlilely hes scum with you given youve called for a vig to shoot him and are pushing him today

[redFF]

here's andante making notes of the fact that klick is calling a bunch of people town and little else. i don't like his response here, claiming that he is keeping things close to the chest and not sharing his scumreads for *reasons*

I mean if you'd like the reasons I can give them to you
I don't really like shitting up the thread with things that aren't that important or that I don't feel strongly
I also generally find it much easier to decisively find town than to find scum
This is how I usually scumhunt and it's verifiable
I think if anyone in this game went back and tried to analyse my meta they'd actually find it odd that I expressed as much confidence on Gamma as I did, because I very rarely confidently express a scumread

very rarely except for right now when you claim to have found out the entire scumeam from my case on you

It's not accurate to say that I wasn't 'sharing my scumreads'
I was holding some reads back
They were all weaker townreads that weren't properly developed yet

hey

klick

, we differ greatly in how we solve

i could use some interaction at the moment

I'm down
Any topic in mind? I'm particularly bad at actively probing the thread in ways that actually help me solve
But I'm happy to help

makes an excuse not to scumhunt

This is just... not what's happening in the post you quoted


Everything else is either some variation of 'Klick is just posting townreads' or reaches that assume I'm scum prior to the point being made

I don't know if you're familiar with the term 'solving' in the context of Mafia redFF
It popped up in the last few years and is a synonym of 'scumhunting' only it also involves trying to find the alignment of town
This has become more common in the discourse than 'scumhunting' because solving for town has become more recognised as a legitimate means of making reads over the last few years

There's not a *reason* that having lots of townreads and no confident scumreads would be more likely to come from scum than town
In terms of pure utility, scum get way more out of throwing suspicion at people than they do from calling people town
So when you say 'Klick has a lot of townreads and no confident scumreads and that's *scummy*', the response I want to give is 'because...?'

disagree, scum calling townies town to pocket and buddy them is a standard tactic.
as to the term "solving", sure its important to develop townreads in order to find scum, i never claimed otherwise

[redFF]

You seemed to suspect me based on my condescension towards redFF
I've responded to that point saying that I wasn't intending to condescend

What's your take on it and how it impacts your read on me, I guess? Am I making it up? Does it alleviate your concerns? Do you have other reasons for keeping your vote on me?

On your reply to my response?

I believe that you weren't

trying

to condescend. I think you were actually trying to intimidate red, and it came through as patronizing or condescending, which those things do in the normal course. There's intimidation in the name of getting a scum read to crack, and there's intimidation as a defense mechanism.

i agree with this. the citation of jargon, and then the basic explanation, as way to handwave off my points felt as herta describes

[redFF]

wait, we only have 11 alive. ok, yall have 3 wagons you want, and I want a 4th so.. 4/11. at least one someone in that is town lol ahhh maths. only 11 alive right not though? frick.. sorry town, I suck, I really should step up, cause 11 feels small tbh
for anyone doing maths, in the hypothetical world where I'm a vig, I'm shooting tonight! pew pew!

thoughts on my klick post?

[redFF]

i think the klick case was solid enough and it has interesting associatives with gryff, but we're back to shitposting i see

[redFF]

[redFF]

i think the klick case was solid enough and it has interesting associatives with gryff, but we're back to shitposting i see

where were you when I was actually pushing for klick for those reasons...ya know...for the majority of this game?

doing something else i guess, there's no reason we can't work together on this now

[redFF]

I tr andante and penguin

[redFF]

I really want taly to come in and give us their thoughts now that they are back from the weekend

[redFF]

Town

Andante
Kow
Fb
Penguin
Herta
Geraint
Shirou
Taly
Gryff
Klick

Scum

[redFF]

hi. sorry I've been mia, I genuinely hate when people do nothing, and I feel really bad that that's been me, I'm gonna skim through stuff and see where my reads land

lets goooooo

[redFF]

oh, i'm still not taking questions.

This does literally nothing for town, if you're not willing to at least put in the effort to try and scumhunt and discuss, you're just dead weight

I mean, why not just ignore? Or start talking about either the klick or gerain posts before this?

And yall wonder why I'm still set on Gryff!scum, like, that's my 1 read this game that I'm confident is correct. cause a post like this, it's solely to call penguin deadweight, like, why would you want to do that? if you were town, you'd probably go more of the path of "what are your reads looking like" instead of this "you're bad" angle

ok, I'm done reading, does anyone wanna share anything towny Gryff has done? otherwise, I want gryff lim. please and ty. yall can thank me later for being the mvp

i could do gryff i guess

[redFF]

yea

[redFF]

Andante i def agree that gryff was being weird post hammer. At the time my thoughts were if gamma flips scum then gryff is likely scum too. I will reread woth the perspective of the gamma town flip and i encourage others to as gryff was actinf strange for sure.

I was being weird post hammer because I decided to be silly and let my hair down a little bit

ok

Humor is the way I cope with stress even if it's cringe

you seemed like you were 100% certain gamma was scum. why was that?

[redFF]

the ate was the ONLY thing ive found town about gryff

[redFF]

Screw it, I'm just gonna say it. If you wanna vote me out, I don't care anymore.

I came back because I missed this game, but it seems the same thing that made me leave in the first place is here too. You can't judge every player the same. I'm old. I'm rusty, I work two jobs and can barely make it one day fully conscious anymore. I've never been good at this game, but I like playing. But I was always first on chopping block because nobody likes my style of play. And yes, I don't have a lot to say Day 1 because it's Day fucking 1. You can't gleam much from that, and surprise surprise, people look for an easy wagon. When you're down two townies tomorrow because you voted me out, would it be worth it?

I should've never come back. The mental stress of this is too much for me to handle. Maybe I just longed for the simpler days, before the endless bore of the daily grind, before the incessant cyberbullying I've suffered that almost made me a shut-in. Maybe I just wanted to relive the innocence of my youth. I've always sucked at this, but I do what I can. But I don't have the time or patience to wait around a month for another game. You all get to play together all the time, that much is obvious. This was my way of testing the waters of whether it was worth it to come back, but as always, I get the short end of the stick. I've always been easy pickings for scum to push a mislim on me, because I'm not good at the game. I wanted a little more excitement in my life, but maybe I'm not meant to have it.

Intent to hammer in 16 hours

here is the infamous AtE

you gotta admit this is a pretty great post if gryff is scum

[redFF]

yea, that post has to be genuine frustration but maybe the frustration was as scum being caught day 1 and he was able to channel it into that post

[redFF]

Gryff is mafia! If you literally ONLY tr ATE... can't let the ATE get to you

thats fair VOTE: gryff

[redFF]

iso his participation today (and even yesterday)

I don't abide by hypocrites who ate'd their way out of a yeet

It's peak time of the year at my main job, I spend 9 hours a day looking at a computer screen, and sometimes I'm just not able to bring myself to come here after an extremely stressful day

fool me once !

[redFF]

i wrote a whole damn case? only you and geraint seem interested

[redFF]

How is what you're doing any different

lmaooo right, cause this was super friendly? You're calm right now? don't care about us voting you?

I never entered this game with intent to be friendly, I only have so much energy for being nice and that's used up on my normal life

That said if it's any consolation when I played scum back in the day I would try to be very buddy buddy with everybody

But I haven't played scum since like 2015 so who knows how I'd be now

can you share some previous games? It's hard to just take your word for this, otherwise its just citing meta that no one can check up on

[redFF]

like i think i've clearly reached the point of not being in the mood to play mafia games seriously anymore

my competitive drive is near 0, and normally i would just see myself out on the door and enter hiatus but i'm staying for the shitposting in this game hell yeah

godamnit

[redFF]

gryff claimed vt in case anyone missed it

[redFF]

By the by I never thought about it in the moment since I misplaced it but someone mentioned role madness earlier and I can confirm that's not the case

[redFF]

By the by I never thought about it in the moment since I misplaced it but someone mentioned role madness earlier and I can confirm that's not the case

is this their claim as VT?
if so, i don't follow at all?

he said he can confirm the game isn't role madness that would mean he is saying he doesnt have a pr no?

[redFF]

u know what.
i could see andante being scum with gryff here.

what

[redFF]

would be great to hear from taly before the day ends for sure

[redFF]

Look at andante confidence in this push and tell me u don't think its a possible buss

would be an double decker bendy bus, andante was the first on the wagon

[redFF]

well ok then

[redFF]

I agree we should mc

[redFF]

Yes we should fully MC. Geraint first then popcorn to who ever.

[redFF]

after Geraint it's gotta be Herta.

then whoever after that yeah...

Why

[redFF]

Sorry shirou how are you cleared ?

[redFF]

I was going to give him time to answer my questions.

It felt like they had given up and we weren't going to get anything useful out of them today, and the weirdness of the self hammer offer was not good, there was nothing they could have said that wouldn't have resulted in their elimination today so I was happy to get it over with.

See you tomorrow

i went to see Herta last night, bold was the crumb

i want your full role sir.

Town Announcing Compulsive Voyeur

Can you provide
Night 1: who you targeted and result
Night 2: who you targeted and result

[redFF]

The Voyeur is an informative role that can target a player at night and learn what was done to them that night (protection, investigation, etc), but not who did it.

[redFF]

My reads have been shit thus far so im going to defer til we are through the MC

[redFF]

The Voyeur is an informative role that can target a player at night and learn what was done to them that night (protection, investigation, etc), but not who did it.

WHY would you explain how the role works for him

Someone asked what it was

[redFF]

we need geraint to state his actions and results for both nights first

[redFF]

I'm the motion detector. Geraintm night 1 and there was movement. Kowabungah Night 2 no movement

are you announcing?

[redFF]

please when mc give exact role names so including announcing/loud modifiers

[redFF]

please when mc give exact role names so including announcing/loud modifiers

Not announcing, roaming

so you are loud, roaming motion detector?

[redFF]

I pop the massclaim to firebringer next.

Loud Loyal Visitor
N1 Shirou
N2 Andante
both confirmed they saw me visit so both are town.

Penguin go

oh wow nice thats a powerful role

[redFF]

VT
popcorn to new player in the game FREEDOM

[redFF]

Is Fire town cleared to be clearing Andante and Shirou?

from my understanding, andante and shirou both confirmed he visited them.
so options are
a) he is telling the truth and he is a town loud loyal visitor
or
b) he is a different loud scum PR that can target people and tells the player he targeted them.
or
c) all 3 are scum and this is a bold gambit.

remember, scum have multitasking this game. i think option C is highly unlikely so I'm willing to clear andante and shirou at this stage.

[redFF]

Please let me know when I can claim.

its freedom next and then they can popcorn to you or andante

[redFF]

also klick targeted me last night

[redFF]

also klick targeted me last night

Did the pm say which ability?

no, just that it was an announcing JOAT ability

[redFF]

Klick died last night. They were Town Loud Announcing JOAT (Motion Detector-Finder, Watcher-Finder, Neapolitan, Tracker).

wait did Klick visit me night 1 as the joat i was told about?
i know he visited me but weird.

Okay, well i want to a mass claim.
First i want andante to report in and claim

to clarify. what fire is saying here is correct.
I was told Klick visited me.
and then a separate line said that i was targeted by an announcing JOAT ability last night.

[redFF]

Out of my townier group I really don't think Firebringer is scum
The other three all feel *somewhat possible* but I'm willing to commit Firebringer to town right now

here's klick's post on FB from yesterday. the only role action that would give this reaction is that he saw FB target Shirou? Given he can detect if someone is a watcher, motion detector or VT, and FB didnt claim any of those roles.

[redFF]

ok, freedom next

[redFF]

Heyyy I'm a VT and think we should lim the VTs

Andante go next then? not sure there's anyone else left

yea just andante left

[redFF]

Shirou replaces Lazy Shirou.

oh SHIT!

[redFF]

im actually an activatable IC, i thought it'd be best for me to withhold til later but i actually think it's best i do it now

[redFF]

so yea enchant will confirm when he logs on, i just told him to activate it

[redFF]

Um that would be helpful.

idk i was hoping i could hold it one more day but activating now just makes more sense

[redFF]

redFF aligned with

Town

!

lets goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[redFF]

given i haven't played on this site in a minute i'll try to refrain from setup spec, but one of the loud roles is probably scum no?

[redFF]

does a ninja make sense in this setup?

[redFF]

I feel like a lot of these claimed roles are similar. Am I wrong?

you might be on to something here...

[redFF]

freedom why did you target klick, any particular reason?

[redFF]

scum have way more incentive to kill me over redff

if you're town...yeah

You didn't die on N2 though even softing as hard as you were softing to be investigative.

You also were the unique person to assuredly know Klick was a JOAT by n2 given he targeted you n1.

Then there's the fact that we're near auto if you're town.

You gotta admit I've objective reasons to be wary of you right now...right? regardless of dayplay.

i mean, klick softed investigative too

[redFF]

penguin/geraint/freedom ? do we think 2 scum could be in the PR claims?

[redFF]

honestly my reads have been dogshit. maybe i'll try reread over the weekend.

[redFF]

feel like its penguin or kow for lim today

[redFF]

feel like its penguin or kow for lim today

I'm sorry but there's

no way

we aren't limming in the PRs. It can't be all town. It's literally a broken setup no matter how much you try to balance if those claims are all town.

It's a question of who is lying to me...

ok

[redFF]

wp scum
andante came right out the gates so well
FB bold ass claim

for the record, the day 3 wagon went down while i was sleeping and i would've wanted to lim freedom who admitted to targeting the NK but when i woke up the geraint lim went through already, but i don't think it would've changed much

i was curious about my role, do people think i shoulda held it longer before activating?

regardless GG scum well played. this was my first game back in many years and i had a fun time despite my reads being dogshit

[redFF]

wp scum
andante came right out the gates so well
FB bold ass claim

for the record, the day 3 wagon went down while i was sleeping and i would've wanted to lim freedom who admitted to targeting the NK but when i woke up the geraint lim went through already, but i don't think it would've changed much

i was curious about my role, do people think i shoulda held it longer before activating?

regardless GG scum well played. this was my first game back in many years and i had a fun time despite my reads being dogshit

[redFF]

yea for real he shouldve been the lim for sure as soon as he claimed that

[redFF]

yea that geraint speedlim was not it but mafia probably wins anyway so ggwp all!

[redFF]

lmao