Mini Normal 2289 - Postgame

[Frogsterking]

Well that was easy VOTE: Brickwall

PEdit: Until Brickwall posted I was working on this:

Oof the furtiveglance avatar immediately after the CSF avatar is not a pretty sight.

On a more a serious note I'm sitting here contemplating whether or not to scum read any of the 3 (furtiveglance, CSF, Dionysus) of your posts. Dionysus is the most interesting because I scum read

[Frogsterking]

Feel free to get in here and defend your first 2 posts whenever, Brickwall, I'm listening. I'm not reaction testing, I legit want to flip you now because I think your first 2 posts are scummy. I want you to post a full reads list by page 4.

[Frogsterking]

@all

Do you think there's a cost to posting even though there's no post limit? Should we be trying to keep our post counts low?

To clarify my first post, 8 I thought was AI for scum until I read 9, FWIW.

__

@Brickwall

I want to know if you can defend 10 and 11 as being NAI and I also want you to post a full reads list by page 4.

__

@furtiveglance

6 any reason you started so differently here than you did in Masque? This sort of low key start reminds me more of your traitor game in Community 2.

7 what are you talking about here?

__

@CSF

Anything you want to add to that?

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Frogster
no

No what?

[Frogsterking]

Feel free to get in here and defend your first 2 posts whenever, Brickwall, I'm listening. I'm not reaction testing, I legit want to flip you now because I think your first 2 posts are scummy. I want you to post a full reads list by page 4.

Won’t be happening. I play the game my way, not your way.

Is RVS done now?

Indignation is easy to fake and asking for a full reads list by page 4 is hardly asking you to abandon your playstyle lol. It's better to cooperate with me even though I'm abrasive, my requests are fair.

@Dionysus

There is a professional liar among us!

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Also, my first time in New York!

(not really, but it is my first time in *this* new york)

I've put some thought into it and I've decided I'd like you to post a full reads list by page 4 as well. I can elaborate later on why.

[Frogsterking]

@all

Do you think there's a cost to posting even though there's no post limit? Should we be trying to keep our post counts low?

To clarify my first post, 8 I thought was AI for scum until I read 9, FWIW.

__

@Brickwall

I want to know if you can defend 10 and 11 as being NAI and I also want you to post a full reads list by page 4.

__

@furtiveglance

6 any reason you started so differently here than you did in Masque? This sort of low key start reminds me more of your traitor game in Community 2.

7 what are you talking about here?

__

@CSF

Anything you want to add to that?

Hello Frog

I started differently to previous games because it's not the same game and I don't repeat stuff

I'm sure you can work out what my score means

Full readslist by page 4 please.

Town

CSF
Eiralox

Town lean

Furtiveglance

Null

T3,
Dionysus
and 0 posters

Scum lean

Brickwalll,
Dragons

Scum

0

[Frogsterking]

I'm sitting here trying to talk myself into Town leaning T3 and I can't quite do it.

[Frogsterking]

IDK, is this Penguin's scum game?

I have a vague feeling 1 of Alchemist or Generic is scum TBH

I think T3 is Town.

Eiralox

Why is Eiralox town? I thought him coming in and ignoring your page 1 content was +scum.

I was pinged a little bit? I decided not to weight it, I thought my ping was paranoia.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... n_Audacity

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_communication

Above are the 2 things which made me paranoid about Eiralox' start.

__

I'm Towning him anyway because he's being reckless and remember this game:

viewtopic.php?t=89870&user_select%5B%5D=28136

It reminded me of that.

Also if you remember the game you modded, scum!Eiralox was really pensive in that and I think that really extreme cautiousness isn't something which can just be turned off.

[Frogsterking]

i'm so happy

i'm so happy

Happy Feet

Don’t you equate me with dancing penguins who can’t think for themselves. I am not mumble.

This is a weird exchange, Penguin can just play along with furtiveglance instead, right? I don't Town this opening and response from Penguin at all.

[Frogsterking]

somebody hasn't seen happy feet

Do you agree with T3 about CSF?

[Frogsterking]

i don't have thoughts beyond

- happy there are two decent wagons this earlier
and
- lol frogster thinks can alignment read me earlier than pooky or skitter

atm

...

This just seems like a really odd response.

This is the push I was asking about:

VOTE: Eiralox

That feels like a scum entrance. Why are you sheeping Dionysus onto a vote on someone who hasn't confirmed their PM?

I think this post is bad

I also am liking brickwall's most recent posts

Bad as in bad reasoning or scummy?

scummy

[Frogsterking]

Why does my intuition tell me that you want to be Townread, Penguin?

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Penguin

My intuition is telling me that you're lying. Stronger than it did with Brickwalll.

[Frogsterking]

Why did you vote Brickwalll instead of Eiralox?

[Frogsterking]

Do you have any top scummy

posts

, CSF? For example I keep going back to 20 and 27.

Also, do you think I'm tinfoiling over 20 and 27 or do those posts ping you too?

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Dragons

20 feels like Dragons is trying to pocket Brickwalll

[Frogsterking]

Do you think it's +scum that Dragons didn't change his vote there? (20) I also thought maybe Dragons made a mistake because he wrote Brickwalll's name wrong and I don't know if that's AI for Dragons.

I guess I'm also curious if Penguin's defensiveness earlier is a part of his Town meta?

[Frogsterking]

Lycanfire, I actually was just thinking of a couple questions for you specifically?

[Frogsterking]

Do you think it's +scum that Dragons didn't change his vote there? (20) I also thought maybe Dragons made a mistake because he wrote Brickwalll's name wrong and I don't know if that's AI for Dragons.

I guess I'm also curious if Penguin's defensiveness earlier is a part of his Town meta?

Idk it'd depend if StD was townreading him vs liking Brickwall's sass but still thinking he could be scum.

About Penguin, yeah I think it is.

Huh? Your line about StD looks like actual cat scratch fever (no tea no shade.) Can you elaborate please?

[Frogsterking]

Lycanfire, I actually was just thinking of a couple questions for you specifically?

[Frogsterking]

If StD liked Brickwall's energy, but still thought it could come from scum, I think it'd make sense for StD to keep his vote there. Because it was on a wagon with momentum

I'm actually not really getting much from your answers.

Should I unvote Dragons and join you on lycanfire or not? I wanted to give lycanfire more of a chance, but I can be flexible.

[Frogsterking]

Your answers regarding Dragons* specifically I'm not getting much from, sorry. The rest of your posts have been great IIRC!

[Frogsterking]

StD doesn't seem committed in 20 but it's also page 1...

What do you think about furtive? He hasn't voted anyone but has 5 interactions in 8 posts.

Furtiveglance is probably Town because they said something which reminds me of Hutmeil D1 from a mini normal I played.

I had a couple different questions for you actually, lycanfire. When I was thinking about you I was looking at a series of posts: 8 + 9 and 15. I've waffled I think on all of these posts. Do you have any takes?

[Frogsterking]

StD doesn't seem committed in 20 but it's also page 1...

What do you think about furtive? He hasn't voted anyone but has 5 interactions in 8 posts.

Furtiveglance is probably Town because they said something which reminds me of Hutmeil D1 from a mini normal I played.

I had a couple different questions for you actually, lycanfire. When I was thinking about you I was looking at a series of posts: 8 + 9 and 15. I've waffled I think on all of these posts. Do you have any takes?

Link to the tell?

As for StD's vote I think all RVS is +town even if it's stupid.

Gonna pass on the Dionysus questions for now.

I don't know if I can find a link, I thought speedwagons were bad for Town though?

Dionysus: haven't seen you around lately bud what timezone are you in?

You haven't been here

[Frogsterking]

Your answers regarding Dragons* specifically I'm not getting much from, sorry. The rest of your posts have been great IIRC!

CSF??

[Frogsterking]

If StD liked Brickwall's energy, but still thought it could come from scum, I think it'd make sense for StD to keep his vote there. Because it was on a wagon with momentum

I'm actually not really getting much from your answers.

Should I unvote Dragons and join you on lycanfire or not? I wanted to give lycanfire more of a chance, but I can be flexible.

CSF??*

[Frogsterking]

Hutmeil post:

Subject: Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

UNVOTE: juice

Nice. I guess townie points for you. I'm still waiting for your survey though.

Hutmeil got misread and eliminated D1 in this game. I'm getting the same psychic energy from furtiveglance in this game:

I think I can see how you got there, and it does make more sense if you're town than scum.

Well done

Same energy. It's a good omen for furtiveglance's alignment.

I guess I misunderstood. I was interpreting it as an alt account or a game name. Can you explain the tell that person gave off?

As for speedwagons it's probably more townie than not in RVS. We're talking about it. That's just in the purest sense. I think it's going far to townread StD from it considering that's all his content.

Yeah I think it's safe to say you misunderstood. IDK, any reason you can't post a full reads list so we can actually understand where your head is at?

[Frogsterking]

If StD liked Brickwall's energy, but still thought it could come from scum, I think it'd make sense for StD to keep his vote there. Because it was on a wagon with momentum

I'm actually not really getting much from your answers.

Should I unvote Dragons and join you on lycanfire or not? I wanted to give lycanfire more of a chance, but I can be flexible.

CSF??*

I don't know - his other posts have been better. Do what you want, and let the chips fall where they may

What are you talking about? Whose posts have been better? Neither Dragons nor lycanfire have said barely anything.

[Frogsterking]

What are you talking about? Whose posts have been better? Neither Dragons nor lycanfire have said barely anything.

Lycanfire's

Do you mind backtracing your read progression for me on lycanfire?

You can ask me questions too by the way lol.

[Frogsterking]

Brickwalll I don't need you to do AI things anymore because I'm pretty sure you're Town anyway. Sorry to disappoint you I guess if you were expecting me to keep chasing, but you are kind of good at seeming obvtown and pretty bad at posting read lists. The only help I think I need in this game is figuring out MalcolmTucker, Generic and Alchemist alignments when they bother to show up. Will you bite my head off if I ask you for a second opinion on those three after they get some content out?

[Frogsterking]

This is what tipped me off FWIW:

What happens if I don’t post a reads list by page 4?

Let’s say, hypothetically, I have an early night and wake up slightly parched around 2am. I do a quick check of the game before putting my head back on the pillow and finishing off my weekend snooze. I see 74 posts have been posted. We are nearly at deadline page - page 4. I choose to get some sleep and post when I wake up but by the time I post it’s page 5, I’ve missed the deadline. What does this mean, am I scum? Instascum? Or just scum leaning? Why - because I chose to sleep.

In all seriousness, you don’t know my play style. What if my play style was to explicitly not give reads lists? Then I wouldn’t be able to comply with your request.

Don’t know who you think you are arriving at the game and telling people you expect something by a certain page number.

I’m no longer answering any of your questions for D1. You are shunned until D2.

I wrote a post sort of like this:

But both Eir and Greeting have produced very little and you appear to just believe both are town and I'm wondering what's enabled you to get those reads?

I mean, you're saying he is being manipulative and I'm just asking you to show it? Why is that so difficult?

Wisdom bomb:

“Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces”

Matthew 7:6

Do what I said or I won't explain ANYTHING to you.

I was Town there obviously and I think you are here, Brickwalll. It's Townie Ego I think.

[Frogsterking]

Eiralox I'm going to solve the game before you even push your first scum lmao

[Frogsterking]

I will watch for scum in this flower

[Frogsterking]

I'm fighting the urge to Town lean Alchemist

[Frogsterking]

Do you think there's a cost to posting even though there's no post limit? Should we be trying to keep our post counts low?

It would be very helpful to me personally if the game's post count stayed low. I don't want to come home from work and have the game feel more like a chore than a game because there's a mountain of new pages.

I can do that tbh, especially since you posted this. I know the rate of my posting is intense and I can taper it down gradually from here. I think the beginning of these games have a lot of clues as to the scum team so I like to get a massive jump out of the gate.

Also fuck it, I think alchemist is town. If these are scum posts then this dude is as cool as a cucumber.

[Frogsterking]

My feeling here is that Dragons is scum though I can't feel sure until MalcolmTucker and Generic have redeemed their slots.

I'm not a fan of the T3 or furtiveglance wagons, I think both are Town.

[Frogsterking]

Game will improve with replacements for sure.

I got warned by list mods for saying this statement before so watch out

[Frogsterking]

Let me clarify then, game will improve when either those players return or are replaced

I don't find 171 to be violating any rules, mine or the site's, but it's possible I've misinterpreted something. Either way, I'm not going to take any action on it.

They told me that it's suggesting the game will be better if the 0 posters replace out and therefore breaking the "telling other players to replace out" rule

You can tell from my eye rolling how much I... believe that's a thing

[Frogsterking]

Do you have any top scummy

posts

, CSF? For example I keep going back to 20 and 27.

Also, do you think I'm tinfoiling over 20 and 27 or do those posts ping you too?

This actually feels like you trying to pocket CSF.

That's NAI.

frogsterking with a lot of busy work, probscum.

Frogster having a lot of busywork is NAI.

That's safe yeah because I intentionally post busy work as scum. Technically though I post a lot more busy work as Town for obvious reasons.

you are kind of good at seeming obvtown

Brickwall is going at

seeming

obvtown? Scum pings from this post, to me it indicates that Frogster isn't actually committed to his Brickwall read? I guess?

This is +Town if anything, I've never been run up as scum for making quirky word choices and I get tunneled as Town by like 1 random Town slot for this reason every game. I low key empathize with what you're saying because it's a tinfoil theory and I make those a lot too. I think the fact you're making this point is probably +Town for you as well for the same reasoning, even though you're wrong. IME it's Town who tend to latch onto this aspect of my posting rather than scum.

[Frogsterking]

I was from mobile and i scrolled whole thing.

Can you give reads?

[Frogsterking]

[Frogsterking]

Can you make it more obvious if you are Town, it impacts my reads a lot.

[Frogsterking]

I'm tempted to Town NM's entrance, do you think I'm making a terrible mistake? It's my intention to go 3/3 in my scum reads about halfway through D1.

[Frogsterking]

I'm tempted to Town NM's entrance, do you think I'm making a terrible mistake? It's my intention to go 3/3 in my scum reads about halfway through D1.

you're tempted to townread something that nm does in every game ever?

you're kinda weird this game

I've never seen NM enter voting Enchant and then post the same entrance again voting himself. I've never seen the rickroll style catch up list before either. You're objectively wrong that NM makes these same posts in every game ever. "Weird" my ass. If you think NM's entrance is NAI then say so.

[Frogsterking]

I think Enchant is Town.

[Frogsterking]

Holy shit, Penguin's right. I thought both posts were NM.

Enchant is Town IMO and Enchant + NM are never scum together.

I'll take a hint and reserve judgement on NM!Town because I got unanimous rejection to that idea.

I'm on pace to have a perfect gamesolve halfway through D1! I guess I could use a second opinion on alchemist though to make sure I'm not getting pocketed.

[Frogsterking]

Don't listen to PinguFlamethrower I'm conftown

Do you trust Penguin here?

[Frogsterking]

Enchant have you played with alchemist before?

[Frogsterking]

Alchemist, how are you progressing with your reads here? Have you had a chance to reread anything?

[Frogsterking]

I'll keep that in mind, I can definitely see alchemist being a dangerous scum player. I'm surprised that I Townread him so strongly and so quickly. That can be a sign of manipulation.

Do you agree with the others that it was a terrible idea for me to Town NM's entrance? Do you have any opinion on Dragon's newer posts?

[Frogsterking]

Penguin, switch wagons please.

[Frogsterking]

I'm reposting this to help dismantle furtiveglance wagon and to remind lycanfire that I already requested a reads list from them. I really need this reads list from lycanfire as he's one of the final slots I need to sort and there's thus far a total absence of reason to trust him.

Hutmeil post:

Subject: Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

UNVOTE: juice

Nice. I guess townie points for you. I'm still waiting for your survey though.

Hutmeil got misread and eliminated D1 in this game. I'm getting the same psychic energy from furtiveglance in this game:

I think I can see how you got there, and it does make more sense if you're town than scum.

Well done

Same energy. It's a good omen for furtiveglance's alignment.

I guess I misunderstood. I was interpreting it as an alt account or a game name. Can you explain the tell that person gave off?

As for speedwagons it's probably more townie than not in RVS. We're talking about it. That's just in the purest sense. I think it's going far to townread StD from it considering that's all his content.

Yeah I think it's safe to say you misunderstood. IDK, any reason you can't post a full reads list so we can actually understand where your head is at?

[Frogsterking]

When's the teamsolve dropping

48 hours. Maybe slightly less.

Holy shit, Penguin's right. I thought both posts were NM.

Enchant is Town IMO and Enchant + NM are never scum together.

I'll take a hint and reserve judgement on NM!Town because I got unanimous rejection to that idea.

I'm on pace to have a perfect gamesolve halfway through D1! I guess I could use a second opinion on alchemist though to make sure I'm not getting pocketed.

He hasn't pinged me, but for some reason I remember alchemist having a decent scum game, so i don't really think enough has happened to say he's town with great confidence. I can't remember him saying anything original, but maybe he hasn't had the chance to

That’s fair. I did once get nommed for a scummie for my scum game, though most of those games I was partnered with Flavor Leaf too.

I’ll be able to give the game more attention if not when I get home after today’s shift then on Wednesday when I’m off.

Good stuff. I think you're more likely to say this as Town tbh.

I don't think it's a waste of time to read the thread because it's not that long and I'm finding most players readable.

[Frogsterking]

Dragons how am I supposed to realize that you're Town from your existing ISO?

playing with frogster is like

jumping in a room full of kittens

What does this mean?

[Frogsterking]

UNVOTE: Dragons

Okay, I'm considering something.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: NM

I'm wondering if this wagon is better than Dragon wagon, even though Dragon wagon

does

rhyme.

[Frogsterking]

I'm getting scumvibes from 20. I wouldn't exactly call it buddying but it does seem like the sort of jokey post scum would make towards a Townie.

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

I agree, but it's also tonally consistent with how I perceive STD to be in general.

Can you talk more about this, T3? Do you believe it's logical to guess Dragons is scum who is emulating the tone of his Town game and not the other aspects?

[Frogsterking]

@

T3

@

Brickwalll

Do you have thoughts on alchemist posting? Also T3 that makes sense wrt Dragon.

#alchemist sorting

[Frogsterking]

Oh CSF I was just thinking about you.

To follow up first though wrt T3 and Brickwalll, I really like both 255 and 258 as posts which are more likely to come from Town. I can elaborate on why if anyone desires, and I might elaborate later anyway even if nobody wants me to. I personally view alchemist more like 255 but I like the points in 258 a lot; I've actually seen scum do each of the things pointed out in 258 before except maybe the coaching and requesting to keep the post count low. Of course 263 I think is a logical response from alchemist and I think it's slightly +Town that there isn't really any condescension or attempt to shade Brickwalll in it. I guess the only thing I can say is that alchemist doesn't really address the body of 258 as a whole and focuses on crushing a very minor aspect of it, which is definitely something else I've seen scum do before.

Now CSF: I know I got shut down earlier on trying to read NM, but I haven't given up. Are you aware of any meta differences in NM's play which would implicate 208? Also, if you're still on, I have a couple really minor issues with your ISO I'd like you to clear up!

[Frogsterking]

You've been on a roll, Alianna

Not sucking up to the mod, are you??

Now that you're here I can't actually remember one of the things I was going to ask you

I wanted to ask:

VOTE: Eiralox

That feels like a scum entrance. Why are you sheeping Dionysus onto a vote on someone who hasn't confirmed their PM?

Is this in your Town meta to monitor the PM confirmations and stuff?

And since I can't remember the other minor issue I had, can you backtrace your read progression on Dionysus?

[Frogsterking]

CSF: I know I got shut down earlier on trying to read NM, but I haven't given up. Are you aware of any meta differences in NM's play which would implicate 208?

no. I'm aware of one meta tell for NM, but I don't want to say it right now because not enough has happened

Understandable. Do you think I'm crazy for feeling like:

Don't listen to PinguFlamethrower I'm conftown

Is a bit LAMIST? When I pondered the game last night I realized that I've seen Enchant make posts like this before, but IIRC NM's M.O. is to hardclaim scum.

[Frogsterking]

wait when

I'll find examples as soon as someone tells me how to search a user's history by topics they've posted in rather than individual posts they've made.

[Frogsterking]

Is a bit LAMIST? When I pondered the game last night I realized that I've seen Enchant make posts like this before, but IIRC NM's M.O. is to hardclaim scum.

ughhhh I don't know. I'm kind of thinking to that game I modded & you were in where he just went "I'm mason" without anything to back it up. If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably NAI.

Because he was mason?

I don't see point.

Not surprising, considering both masons died at same night.

I still don't see point of bringing it up

It's just what I thought of when I tried to think about NM claiming scum vs claiming town. I don't remember him claiming scum - though I wouldn't be surprised if you showed me posts where he did - but I do remember him claiming town.

Sorry CSF, I'm going to back up Enchant 100% on this one (also thank you for telling me how to search by topic.)

NM claiming his role later on in the game is a completely different context than what I'm asking about here.

On D1,

in terms of

shit posting, "scum hunting" and idle conversation

, I specifically recall NM claiming scum many times as a joke while actually being Town, and

I don't recall NM insisting or implying that he's Town or conftown, either seriously or as a joke.

I don't think your reference to NM claiming mason in that game really addresses what I was trying to bring up:

is NM saying "don't listen to penguinfire I'm conftown" being LAMIST and is that "joke" a deviation from his Town meta?

Examples of what I might predict Town!NM to say there are "penguinfire caught me by reading my name in the scum PT" or "don't listen to penguinfire, he just wants his scum faction to win before mine does." I'd like you to give me a straight answer on this please, CSF.

[Frogsterking]

wait when

I'll find examples as soon as someone tells me how to search a user's history by topics they've posted in rather than individual posts they've made.

Receipts 4 Enchant declaring themselves Town while actually being Town:

Subject: Open 866: CK9++ [game over!]

My readlist right now:

Enchant - Town
Everyone else - Null

Subject: LOST (Game Over)

Imo if i didn't hit your top townread already, then you are mafia or for certain throwing game, and i gonna snitch on you to GODS, so last thing you see is laser from sky immolating your sorry ass from this topic.

Subject: Mini Normal 2283 - Game Over!

No, i am my only townread but i won't kill myself because killing self is wrong guys don't do it

[Frogsterking]

Receipts 4 NM declaring themselves to be Town while actually being Town:

.....

*random burp*

...

[Frogsterking]

All of those examples of Enchant are from D1 and unrelated to any real claiming going on, fyi, which is the context I am referring to.

[Frogsterking]

If you're specifically asking about what he likes to claim during early game shitposting, then I don't know - it's not something I've ever paid attention to or thought to pick up on.

"...it's not something I've ever paid attention to or thought to pick up on." Gee whiz, I'm such an original thinker: thanks.

I know that you sort a lot by meta

and NM is a player where extensive meta information is available.

You are a lot more familiar with this site than I am

and even I'm aware of relevant information on this topic:

#1 in the game you modded--that you just referenced--I recall NM and Firebringer claiming scum in some reference to multiball on D1.

#2 what I'm referring to is somewhat reminiscent of the Luca Blight tell, which I believe you're familiar with, ie if a known troll/gimmick alt is posting reads then they're more likely to be scum. I'm not saying NM is posting reads, I'm saying that they have already deviated slightly from their meta in a direction which suggest they care more than usual about how they're percieved in this game.

#3 DkKoba (after hydra or something with NM for a while) said there are multiple specific differences in how NM plays as either alignment. I'm not posting them now for obvious reasons.

I feel like you can respond with some more meaningful analysis than what you've offered so far. This is basically what you're giving me:



Now the really easy part of my question I don't think you really gave much either tbh:

Don't listen to PinguFlamethrower I'm conftown

Is this post LAMIST?

[Frogsterking]

You want meta. Meta Dionysus and tell me you don't think he's scum.

Very interesting. I'm about to take a shower and I'll look at his other games afterwards. Anything in particular or is it self explanatory?

[Frogsterking]

I haven't moved yet, I got lost in my head for a second. I'll go now.

@

Eiralox

Are you getting any scum!mohab vibes from Dionysus?

This scum!mohab: viewtopic.php?t=89826&user_select%5B%5D=31103

[Frogsterking]

Way to walk into a beetlejuice at the exact moment I was becoming paranoid about you, Dionysus.

If you were suddenly put into a Final 3 between alchemist and NM, who would you hammer and why, Dionysus?

It's not a trick question, I am actually comparing between those two right now.

[Frogsterking]

You want meta. Meta Dionysus and tell me you don't think he's scum.

There is just one game, but I still think it's self explanatory; the differences are pretty glaring imo

*Frog searches Dionysus*
*Opens game*

[Frogsterking]

Way to walk into a beetlejuice at the exact moment I was becoming paranoid about you, Dionysus.

If you were suddenly put into a Final 3 between alchemist and NM, who would you hammer and why, Dionysus?

It's not a trick question, I am actually comparing between those two right now.

This is addressed to you, Dionysus.

[Frogsterking]

Way to walk into a beetlejuice at the exact moment I was becoming paranoid about you, Dionysus.

If you were suddenly put into a Final 3 between alchemist and NM, who would you hammer and why, Dionysus?

It's not a trick question, I am actually comparing between those two right now.

This is addressed to you, Dionysus.

why these two

Process of elimination! I'm wrapping up my team solve for tomorrow morning.

__

Dionysus townreading furtive is kind of interesting - I feel like furtive has a scummy meta at face value until you get to know him. Though I suppose it's plausible if you believe his T3 read

but the rest of Dionysus' responses aren't as bad as I was expecting ngl

This reminds me of your read progression on lycanfire:

75 was a weird post & I didn't agree with any of the reads. Then he made a decent observation about furtive, though idk if the observation is scum indicative for furtive

I mainly need other people to do stuff right now

I find it hard to imagine that your read change on Dionysus wasn't affected at all by 315.

[Frogsterking]

You didn't agree with my metaread?

AFAIK we aren't allowed to discuss Dionysus' meta outside of what they share in-thread because their other game is still ongoing.

[Frogsterking]

You didn't agree with my metaread?

AFAIK we aren't allowed to discuss Dionysus' meta outside of what they share in-thread because their other game is still ongoing.

Newbie 2109 is concluded viewtopic.php?t=90297

This makes so, so much more sense lmao. I thought CSF was just drinking or something lol. I'll take a look at this.

[Frogsterking]

@

Dionysus

Subject: Newbie 2109: Taco Hemingway | Game Over

Dionysus played the game as a casual commenter up until others (such as Not Known) began making larger and more in-depth posts, in which case he began also making comprehensive posts, but mostly about game mechanics. Posts such as 102 and 113 are both good mechanic posts (going the full way through the scenario Campbell's logic causes and discussing the reasoning for their hesitation on giving scum an easier time hammering), but they're then forced to carry the weight of actual reads that Dion seems not confident enough in to let them sit in their own post (claiming Campbell's is just pretending to have such logic as a cover and stating that there is a "consensus" on them flailing, respectively).

Welcome to the game

I want to just dispute your final point about me not being confident in my reads to let them sit in their own post. [post=#p13610841]#78[/post] is where I point the finger at Campbell I think quite confidently, I followed this up in other posts you have referenced. You may disagree with me, but it is there. The more Campbell posts, the more sure I am that he is scum (his latest post making another u-turn for example, he's all over the place). I think it seems you disagree with me on consensus forming around him being flailing scum simply because you read him as town yourself.

I'm guessing that

#1 your read on Frederick Campbell was wrong here, Dionysus?
#2 you were Town in this 2019 game, as you are here?

[Frogsterking]

Welcome to the Towncore.

[Frogsterking]

ah fuck it im not really feeling that anymore

VOTE: dionysus

Wrong again

[Frogsterking]

Dionysus: haven't seen you around lately bud what timezone are you in?

Lycanfire bailed because of this mistake.

[Frogsterking]

How we doin here

Everyone voting wrong again

It depends on whether the NM slot is scum. It's in my team solve currently but it's the slot I'm less confident on compared to the other two.

[Frogsterking]

StD doesn't seem committed in 20 but it's also page 1...

What do you think about furtive? He hasn't voted anyone but has 5 interactions in 8 posts.

Furtiveglance is probably Town because they said something which reminds me of Hutmeil D1 from a mini normal I played.

I had a couple different questions for you actually, lycanfire. When I was thinking about you I was looking at a series of posts: 8 + 9 and 15. I've waffled I think on all of these posts. Do you have any takes?

Link to the tell?

As for StD's vote I think all RVS is +town even if it's stupid.

Gonna pass on the Dionysus questions for now.

I don't know if I can find a link, I thought speedwagons were bad for Town though?

Dionysus: haven't seen you around lately bud what timezone are you in?

You haven't been here

In case anyone doesn't understand what lycanfire did which caused them to give up

[Frogsterking]

i still do not understand but i'm not so sure you can just guess why someone replaces out of a game

Are you being intentionally dense right now?

[Frogsterking]

What the fuck do you think lycanfire meant by "I haven't seen you around in a while" to a player who he has never interacted with before? How did lycanfire know D's activity levels had dropped off if lycanfire hadn't been monitoring the thread? If he were Town and just being awkward then why did he ghost the thread immediately after I pointed it out, wait until prodge timer, and then ask to replace out? Jesus fucking christ

[Frogsterking]

I don't think you understand how to monitor the activity overview. Look at lycanfire's first post compared to everyone elses. Town!Lycanfire had been "absent" from the initial start of the game (which is scummy in and of itself.) Town!Lycanfire can't have "not seen Dionysus around for a while." There was no while because lycanfire had just finally unleashed his first scum post upon the thread shortly before making that comment. You can wifom for the scum team and make my task difficult if that really amuses you, but "mehhh scum don't perspective slip it's just Town being awkward" doesn't explain the evasion in his next post and abandoning the game.

[Frogsterking]

I don't fucking care why lycanfire replaced out of the game. Lycanfire lurked for a day and a half, made a short series of scummy posts, got called out, lurked for two more days, and now they're gone. They are scum whether or not they replaced out of the game. It just makes it more obvious. God, fucking pay attention to the activity overview. You can catch at least one scum doing this shit in like every Mini Normal.

[Frogsterking]

How we doin here

Everyone voting wrong again

It depends on whether the NM slot is scum. It's in my team solve currently but it's the slot I'm less confident on compared to the other two.

Why are you voting your 3rd strongest scumread

It's been my intention to find all 3 scum partway through D1. I stated that way earlier. I wanted to question lycanfire and the other scum slot before alerting them to how strong I was scum reading them. I also was curious who would join the NM wagon.

[Frogsterking]

i still do not understand but i'm not so sure you can just guess why someone replaces out of a game

*Town flails*

*gnashes teeth*

*eats pizza*

My ideas will not be silenced by apathy, my voice will be heard. The lycanfire slot is not Town.

[Frogsterking]

Why is everyone coming out of the woodwork to say lycanfire is scum but no one is voting

It's not time to strike yet. My suspicion here is that my vote is already on scum.

i still do not understand but i'm not so sure you can just guess why someone replaces out of a game

I

think

this and the subsequent posts defending lycanfire are unlikely to come from Dragons when Dragons and lycanfire are both scum. Like I've seen scum defend their lurk partners before but they were way, way more self conscious about being tied to them later, and I feel like it's normal for there to be a Town slot or two throwing down some resistance to what I'm putting out right now. I could use a second opinion here because I'm not sure this is true, it's just what I think I've observed.

Why is everyone coming out of the woodwork to say lycanfire is scum but no one is voting

I was until I didn't have someone to push anymore

oh...i wasn't....

i dreamed that...i dreamed about mafia...oh no

It's intuition. It's a good omen for lycanfire!scum.

[Frogsterking]

What if he just thought you were another user

I believe in this case that he points this out in his subsequent post instead of changing the subject. Town!lycan is allegedly scum reading me for "busy work" at this time, and if there's one thing Town love pointing out more than slips, it's pointing out that the slip someone else pointed out is wrong.

I guess I misunderstood. I was interpreting it as an alt account or a game name. Can you explain the tell that person gave off?

As for speedwagons it's probably more townie than not in RVS. We're talking about it. That's just in the purest sense. I think it's going far to townread StD from it considering that's all his content.

Lycanfire engages on me on every point

except

where I point out that he just got here. He addresses my defense of furtiveglance and TMIs that you're slot is Town, but he doesn't "oh I thought that was someone else from an ongoing game."

[Frogsterking]

StD doesn't seem committed in 20 but it's also page 1...

What do you think about furtive? He hasn't voted anyone but has 5 interactions in 8 posts.

Furtiveglance is probably Town because they said something which reminds me of Hutmeil D1 from a mini normal I played.

I had a couple different questions for you actually, lycanfire. When I was thinking about you I was looking at a series of posts: 8 + 9 and 15. I've waffled I think on all of these posts. Do you have any takes?

Link to the tell?

As for StD's vote I think all RVS is +town even if it's stupid.

Gonna pass on the Dionysus questions for now.

This implies that he is conscious and aware of the Dionysus slot to the extent he'll refuse to talk about it. I really don't believe that lycanfire thought Dionysus was someone else.

[Frogsterking]

hello i decided to replace into this game because i read frogsterking's argument against lycanfire and thought it was stupid. he probably just read the timestamps and used them to make conversation w dionysus or it was a joke about the greek god

i expect frogsterking will continue to do frogsterking things indefinitely and that's fine

Nice wifom. The bolded is a scum tell though.

[Frogsterking]

hello i decided to replace into this game because i read frogsterking's argument against lycanfire and thought it was stupid. he probably just read the timestamps and used them to make conversation w dionysus or it was a joke about the greek god

i expect frogsterking will continue to do frogsterking things indefinitely and that's fine

Nice wifom. The bolded is a scum tell though.

Your wifom would have been better written without the bolded. Here's a counter example of what I'm talking about:

No. That’s my take on the general mindset players would have as they enter the thread.

What you’re saying doesn’t even make sense. I’m calling the behavior Towny, so why would I also be subtly asking them to improve it? Or do you think I was telling them to keep doing what they’re doing, and if that’s the case why do you think I would even feel a need to coach them then?

There’s also the fact that post 2 says in the rules all PTs have Daytalk, so if I were scum with Eiralox I could just coach them there.

In 263 alchemist doesn't take the condescending tone and opportunity to mindlessly shade Brickwalll, he just calmly presents his argument. Here's one example of

two

scum from a completed game taking a similar approach to 384 in order to discredit my slot from pushing scum:

Subject: Open 860 | Elected Decisions | Postgame

My experience with reading Frogsterking is that he's very unpredictable and erratic (KTaNE). My impression is that he's surprisingly making some sense in this game and making an effort, which makes me paranoid and unwilling to trust him at all. Doesn't mean he's necessarily scum though. I wouldn't mind getting him Divulged though.

To me he's absolutely Not making sense, so I have no idea what you're seeing here. Though you aren't the first to say he's normally erratic/unpredictable, I still can't imagine this as Town right now. It seems like he does have clear goals, and that those goals are Mafia-oriented

Both Greeting and Radical Rat in the above example are scum.

I can probably find like 50 more examples of scum taking a condescending "Frogster weird etc." approach in order to kneecap my push just like Cephrir inserts into 384.

[Frogsterking]

Here's an example of a Town slot expressing concern about my play without the condescending tone adopted in 384:

VOTE: Frogster
no

No what?

You're latching on to NAI stuff in order to start discussion

Which is fair tbh

frogsterking with a lot of busy work, probscum.

Frogster having a lot of busywork is NAI.

The ones I quoted, especially when you give two contradictory statements on Frog in one post

Oh yeah, I should get more sleep

I can't really defend against this - my post about Frog came from a place of mild exasperation about Frog's playstyle.

Can you be more original please next time you want to be scummy, Cephrir?

[Frogsterking]

i thought brickwall's entrance was scummy but the fact he was memeing about it just now improves my opinion

This is fence sitting.

[Frogsterking]

i thought brickwall's entrance was scummy but the fact he was memeing about it just now improves my opinion

This is fence sitting.

Wow and buddying up to Brickwalll. I want you to be more original in your scum tells though.

[Frogsterking]

i don't care

i dont believe you. Receipts:

Subject: Large Normal 241 | Mafia PT

Frog is right on me for bad reasons, so if he gets the lim then kill the other strong town voices prob and let him lead misyeets on several townies (he probably gets you like 3?)

Subject: Large Normal 241 | Mafia PT

I think gambitting here doesn't play well to the crowd, my thinking is that most of the players who are soft-kill me wouldn't like it

kind of want to shove Nero but iirc he's a fucking huge OMGUSer and I don't wanna deal with that while frog is still probably just going to endlessly repeat that I need to die every time he's around

it's incredibly annoying but a somewhat workable strat to just be Loud and Constantly Around

Subject: Large Normal 241 | Mafia PT

I keep getting accused of not making meaningful posts but I have no idea what makes any post meaningful over another? all posts are meaningful/all posts have no meaning

idgi

I have experience in this area. You are in great hands.

[Frogsterking]

im gonna start a competition with myself to see what's the dumbest thing i can get frogsterking to push me for

You will have to try a lot harder because so far your scum tells are too level 1 for me to work with, including the scum bravado here.

[Frogsterking]

well known menalque alt cephrir

This is reading superficially, ignoring the point of the post, another scum tell.

I know that you do care because I have been in this situation several times before and the scum always whine about it in the scum PT until they die.

[Frogsterking]

i am currently moderately okay with the votecount

Can I get a second opinion on 278 by the way?

furtive seems more... agreeable? than i'm used to. would anyone who's played with him more than i have care to comment

Furtiveglance is Town and has not been agreeable in this game lmao. If you read the game you would realize that your predecessor already attempted to tinfoil furtiveglance's slot. Your predecessor's tinfoil got shut down because it was just as stupid as what you're pushing here lmao.

[Frogsterking]

well known menalque alt cephrir

This is reading superficially, ignoring the point of the post, another scum tell.

I know that you do care because I have been in this situation several times before and the scum always whine about it in the scum PT until they die.

i don't plan to meaningfully engage you so i suggest you don't bother complaining about it every time. @others just saying this game gives a lot less gunk to read if you just ignore this guy's posts since there are 400 of them

sorry let me rephrase: would anyone not named frogsterking who's played with him more than i have care to comment

[Frogsterking]

Instead of posting terrible analysis and shopping desperately for a wagon why don't you post a reads list?

[Frogsterking]

i thought brickwall's entrance was scummy but the fact he was memeing about it just now improves my opinion

This is just a waste of a post. Not only do you say nothing about Brickwalll's actual alignment, you try to butter them up in the process. Your post furtiveglance is clearly shopping for a wagon. If you want to be taken seriously then write something that doesn't look like scum who just replaced into a suspicious slot.

[Frogsterking]

Instead of posting terrible analysis and shopping desperately for a wagon why don't you post a reads list?

no can do, i'm terrified you will use it to divine who my scumbuddies are

It's too late for that, what do you think I've been doing for the past two days? Your team is fucked even if this were mountainous.

[Frogsterking]

I haven't moved yet, I got lost in my head for a second. I'll go now.

@

Eiralox

Are you getting any scum!mohab vibes from Dionysus?

This scum!mohab: viewtopic.php?t=89826&user_select%5B%5D=31103

ok i wasnt gonna even try to read this but what a bizarre post lmao

I already covered this one:

hello i decided to replace into this game because i read frogsterking's argument against lycanfire and thought it was stupid. he probably just read the timestamps and used them to make conversation w dionysus or it was a joke about the greek god

i expect frogsterking will continue to do frogsterking things indefinitely and that's fine

Nice wifom. The bolded is a scum tell though.

Your wifom would have been better written without the bolded. Here's a counter example of what I'm talking about:

No. That’s my take on the general mindset players would have as they enter the thread.

What you’re saying doesn’t even make sense. I’m calling the behavior Towny, so why would I also be subtly asking them to improve it? Or do you think I was telling them to keep doing what they’re doing, and if that’s the case why do you think I would even feel a need to coach them then?

There’s also the fact that post 2 says in the rules all PTs have Daytalk, so if I were scum with Eiralox I could just coach them there.

In 263 alchemist doesn't take the condescending tone and opportunity to mindlessly shade Brickwalll, he just calmly presents his argument. Here's one example of

two

scum from a completed game taking a similar approach to 384 in order to discredit my slot from pushing scum:

Subject: Open 860 | Elected Decisions | Postgame

My experience with reading Frogsterking is that he's very unpredictable and erratic (KTaNE). My impression is that he's surprisingly making some sense in this game and making an effort, which makes me paranoid and unwilling to trust him at all. Doesn't mean he's necessarily scum though. I wouldn't mind getting him Divulged though.

To me he's absolutely Not making sense, so I have no idea what you're seeing here. Though you aren't the first to say he's normally erratic/unpredictable, I still can't imagine this as Town right now. It seems like he does have clear goals, and that those goals are Mafia-oriented

Both Greeting and Radical Rat in the above example are scum.

I can probably find like 50 more examples of scum taking a condescending "Frogster weird etc." approach in order to kneecap my push just like Cephrir inserts into 384.

If you're going to just do the same thing every other scum does when I try to run them up then I'm going to go play outside. I'm scum casing the slot you replaced into and one of your scum mates in 12 hours. I'm also going to Townsend most of the other slots who aren't in my team solve.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Cephrir

My reasoning is that IF Cephrir is going to be an active scum slot then I think technically it's best to go for the lurk!scum (who I believe to be NM but am not sure.) I expect this level of engagement is only temporary and Cephrir will start lurking though as soon as their slot is better positioned. I think the chances of this flipping scum are extremely high and there is only one other slot who I FoS to a similar degree. This should not only be a leading wagon, I think this should eventually be the D1 lim as well. I'm going to get some rest and elaborate on the rest of my reads later. Don't trust Cephrir lmao.

[Frogsterking]

Let me quote another scum player making this exact same argument using the exact same game to discredit me while I run them (and their team) up on D1:

Subject: hi, i'm large normal 242. and i'm over with.

because as far as I can see, the only reason you call me a troll is because I am pushing your slot and that feels like a way to discredit my push on you by trying to attribute my play to something its clearly not.

its also intensely ironic considering your play in games such as KTANE where you blew up the IC, you should be the last person to call others trolls.

For reference I'm reposting the quote of the other scum players using the exact same argument:


Subject: Open 860 | Elected Decisions | Postgame

My experience with reading Frogsterking is that he's very unpredictable and erratic (KTaNE). My impression is that he's surprisingly making some sense in this game and making an effort, which makes me paranoid and unwilling to trust him at all. Doesn't mean he's necessarily scum though. I wouldn't mind getting him Divulged though.

To me he's absolutely Not making sense, so I have no idea what you're seeing here. Though you aren't the first to say he's normally erratic/unpredictable, I still can't imagine this as Town right now. It seems like he does have clear goals, and that those goals are Mafia-oriented

Both Greeting and Radical Rat in the above example are scum, chainsawing me as I had solved the game within the first few pages.

I'll quote the same scum above pissing themselves in their scumPT after getting caught D1:

Subject: Open 860 | Elected Decisions | Mafia Hideout

Frog is annoying, he's legit just lying

Gotta do my best not to give out "caught for the wrong reason" vibes

Subject: Open 860 | Elected Decisions | Mafia Hideout

I know this'll just pass because Frog literally makes no sense and no one's just gonna agree to quick hammering 24 hours into the game for no reason

But wow

Subject: Open 860 | Elected Decisions | Mafia Hideout

Don't worry about

Frogsterking

, no one takes him seriously.

Both of you are doing a good job so far, if I were town, I wouldn't be suspecting either of you.

Subject: Open 860 | Elected Decisions | Mafia Hideout

VOTE: Roden
VOTE: Divulgence (sigh)

HEAL: Fun Times
VOTE: Divulge
VOTE: Greeting

I want to see how many players support this wagon config for D1.

VOTE: radical rat

Uh...

Subject: i'm large normal 242 mafia thread (this is over)

gamma/frogster very obviously a mason pair and we need to get them to vote a townie together as we systematically kill them at night

No Masons, just good D1 reads

Subject: i'm large normal 242 mafia thread (this is over)

really think that stacking votes on a townie right now is way more of a good play than what is happening right now (:

Subject: i'm large normal 242 mafia thread (this is over)

who do u want to push again lol

Subject: i'm large normal 242 mafia thread (this is over)

btw theres almost certainly a rolecop or maybe 2 in this setup considering this is a schadd setup and the roles i see here.

make sure to look as investigatable as possible.

i mean we can force frog to claim to force the gambit and see if there really is a masonry and not just a hood where they townread eachother

No Masons, just scum getting caught D1

Subject: i'm large normal 242 mafia thread (this is over)

frogster is really polarized on meta tho rofl

Subject: i'm large normal 242 mafia thread (this is over)

the mason play in this game is so lol theyre just trying to hide their masonry while being upset and making it more obvious that it exists instead of dropping the act

also frogster basically hard OGIing himself town is w i l d

prob should bury that post, im gonna try to get him to post more to bury it in his ISO too.

No OGI, just butt hurt scum

Subject: i'm large normal 242 mafia thread (this is over)

kitty/frog/gamma is the masonry

No masons, just kicking scum ass D1 the old fashioned way etc.

In summary, there's a pattern of: Frog push real hard D1 > Frog hits correctly D1 (sometimes) > Scum aren't used to getting caught so early so they flail and reference KTANE

Real creative, much gameplay

[Frogsterking]

Maybe cephrir is town lol

I voted dionysus for funzies I dunno who the scum are yet at all I'm like the anti-frogster

Townlean revoked

[Frogsterking]

2 town games KTaNE and lost - tons of ridiculously dumb posts with outlandish theories
Mini normal where I played as tenebrousluminary - he was a lot more muted posted less and was scum

STD I'll respond to you when I have more time but I still want to know where your Dionysus vote came from

Cephrir I'm not sure whether you got caught with your pants down or this is the best you can muster, but from my point of view it's really disappointing to put all this work into solving games just to face opponents whose main defense is to wail
"ReMeMbEr KTANEEEEEE!! PlEaSe DoN't VoTe Me!!"

Like off the top of my head you are the fourth scum player to make this exact same argument after getting caught D1.

I guess for you I can only criticize your choice to attack my meta, because unlike the other scum, you had to replace into a slot I was already scum reading. So kudos to you I guess.

Frogster I expect a readslist by page 4 if that's the case

@all

Do you think there's a cost to posting even though there's no post limit? Should we be trying to keep our post counts low?

To clarify my first post, 8 I thought was AI for scum until I read 9, FWIW.

__

@Brickwall

I want to know if you can defend 10 and 11 as being NAI and I also want you to post a full reads list by page 4.

__

@furtiveglance

6 any reason you started so differently here than you did in Masque? This sort of low key start reminds me more of your traitor game in Community 2.

7 what are you talking about here?

__

@CSF

Anything you want to add to that?

Hello Frog

I started differently to previous games because it's not the same game and I don't repeat stuff

I'm sure you can work out what my score means

Full readslist by page 4 please.

Town

CSF
Eiralox

Town lean

Furtiveglance

Null

T3,
Dionysus
and 0 posters

Scum lean

Brickwalll,
Dragons

Scum

0

Wow if Dragons is the Anti-Frogster then I will sleep easy tonight!!

[Frogsterking]

hey eiralox why haven't you offered a single read or opinion since post 264

why are you doing that

do you have any opinions about anything at all

[Frogsterking]

Wise.

...you aren't being pinged by NM's activity in the thread?

What do you expect scum!NM to be doing over the last couple pages in a scum!Cephrir, scum!NM world?

I'm feeling comfortable that I'm 3/3 right now. Of course I can be wrong but it's been looking promising.

[Frogsterking]

What do you expect scum!NM to be doing over the last couple pages in a scum!Cephrir, scum!NM world?

You think the vote / unvote is indicative of SvS?

Luca Blight tell...NM not only has a scum read, he

votes

it and provides a

reason

for voting it. That's...not typical NM Town behavior AFAIK. Not to mention NM displaying slightly more WiM toward helping his team when rolling scum than he does as Town (according to Koba), a vibe of helpless futility as NM impotently shuffles his vote onto and off of Cephrir, NM seeming strangely serious and non-jokey here, yeah my belief is that 2 scum are Cephrir and NM.

Do you think Cephrir and NM are aligned?

I typed up a response to your question about Dionysus but I copy pasted over it on accident. Do you want me to rewrite it?

Wise.

You know that NM doing it just to hammer?

You don't agree with my theory on NM?

[Frogsterking]

Wise.

...you aren't being pinged by NM's activity in the thread?

What do you expect scum!NM to be doing over the last couple pages in a scum!Cephrir, scum!NM world?

I'm feeling comfortable that I'm 3/3 right now. Of course I can be wrong but it's been looking promising.

Probably NM does same thing.

You mean same thing that he just did in the thread?

[Frogsterking]

Do you think Cephrir and NM are aligned?

No, I think the most likely explanation for what happened is NM voted Ceph but didn't realize the wagon was so close to hammer territory and then unvoted. If they're S/S, why does he vote only to unvote?

Because he wants to do something and isn't sure what so he very weakly distances from Cephrir.

How do you think I'm doing this game as far as reads and/or toxicity go?

I typed up a response to your question about Dionysus but I copy pasted over it on accident. Do you want me to rewrite it?

Yeah probably. I took another look at his past Newbie (closer this time ) and don't see many similarities to the other game.

Okay if you insist

I don't think you're going to like my process though...

I opened Dionysus 2019 game he linked and skimmed his ISO until my eyes suddenly locked on a single post. I saw words describing his read on Frederick and they formed a picture of Dionysus for me. The post had words like "I pointed suspicion at Campbell", "very confident", "u-turn", "erratic" and I instantly felt like I knew Dionysus. I felt like Dionysus was Town pushing Town!Frededick in that game AND I felt intuitively that Dionysus is Town again in this game. I impulsively closed the 2019 game, tabbed back into this one, and asked him if either of my theories are correct. Dionysus replied "yes to both" and right then I decided to Town lock him. If Dionysus is scum then it was the easiest win of his life.

I haven't reassessed and don't really plan to for long time, but I did ponder about how it would be funny if that same situation played out with scum!Dionysus and they somehow found a way to answer that suspiciously resulting in a scum read instead

NM not only has a scum read, he votes it and provides a reason for voting it. That's...not typical NM Town behavior AFAIK.

Proactive voting is town indicative for him, providing a reason is scum indicative. Where does that get me...

Scum?

[Frogsterking]

@

CSF

@

Cephrir

@

NM

Someone who isn't frogsterking obviously

Eiralox

Why is Eiralox town? I thought him coming in and ignoring your page 1 content was +scum.

Is there a reason why you were proactive about calling out Eiralox out for ignoring my page 1 content, while you sit there and say nothing while Cephrir shits on me endlessly?

#double standards

[Frogsterking]

you're right I don't like your process lol

Do 27 and 31 seem out of character to you? In a bravado-y kind of way.

234 catch up with no attempt to talk to people

Nope, I've Town locked Dionysus and there's a good chance I will never reassess for the rest of the game. At this point I'm more interested in silly ways that Dionysus could have answered my question which would have sounded suspicious

Can you amswer my question please?

[Frogsterking]

Is there a reason why you were proactive about calling out Eiralox out for ignoring my page 1 content, while you sit there and say nothing while Cephrir shits on me endlessly?

Because there was nothing else to talk about page 1

Do you think you need to be defended more by me? No one has been taking Ceph seriously, I don't think; it's only gotten him scumread

Yes, how would you feel if someone shit on you and I just had a casual conversation with them about whatever? Would you feel supported?

[Frogsterking]

Someone tell me what part is not convincing

Ehhhh, I kinda like 285 in hindsight

How would you feel if Cephrir said you are worst player of all time for chasing JohnnyFarrar in LOST and I was like "ehh I kinda like 244?"

[Frogsterking]

If Ceph is scum who came in with the purpose of discrediting, I think he really misread the room. Your reads were good lately, esp in that crack xyzzy game, but I don't know if Ceph knows that

p-edit: I don't "support" like that, and I think it would be kind of suspicious if someone did?

How do you think scum!Ceph is going to adapt next compared to town!Ceph?

(Feel free to join in this conversation, Cephrir.)

And I don't think it would be suspicious, I think it would be honourable

[Frogsterking]

How would you feel if Cephrir said you are worst player of all time for chasing JohnnyFarrar in LOST and I was like "ehh I kinda like 244?"

I'll be honest, I don't think I would care that much or really at all. I didn't realize you did though

I'm talking to Ceph as if he could be town, because I think he can be,

and I usually talk to people like that when I sort them

Yes I'm very sensitive and shy, why do you think I freak out so much?

I'm glad that you are trying to sort Cephrir

[Frogsterking]

Hey Cephrir, where are you hiding? If you get in here and talk things out with me and CSF then I will unvote you for a second.

[Frogsterking]

wouldn't it defeat the purpose if I answered >_>

I want to learn

Is there a reason why you were proactive about calling out Eiralox out for ignoring my page 1 content, while you sit there and say nothing while Cephrir shits on me endlessly?

Because there was nothing else to talk about page 1

Do you think you need to be defended more by me? No one has been taking Ceph seriously, I don't think; it's only gotten him scumread

Are you implying here that you aren't treating Cephrir any different than you treated Eiralox?

[Frogsterking]

I have no interest in talking to you. Leave me alone.

Will you talk to me if CSF plays peacemaker for us? I will unvote if you do.

[Frogsterking]

wouldn't it defeat the purpose if I answered >_>

I want to learn

Is there a reason why you were proactive about calling out Eiralox out for ignoring my page 1 content, while you sit there and say nothing while Cephrir shits on me endlessly?

Because there was nothing else to talk about page 1

Do you think you need to be defended more by me? No one has been taking Ceph seriously, I don't think; it's only gotten him scumread

Are you implying here that you aren't treating Cephrir any different than you treated Eiralox?

Do you feel like CSF is treating you differently than she treated Eiralox, Cephrir?

[Frogsterking]

Alchemist Town locked

[Frogsterking]

Alchemist Town locked

Thank God. I was paranoid.

[Frogsterking]

I would like to see CSF vote Cephrir.

[Frogsterking]

I'm sorry alchemist that I didn't keep my promise about tapering my posting down.

[Frogsterking]

I think probably most players in this game will be poor at reading me. I'm an acquired taste and usually get suspected heavily by players that don't know me

I don't have enough hands to count the amount of times I've seen scum post this.

[Frogsterking]

I would like to see CSF vote Cephrir.

[Frogsterking]

Why? You want him limmed right now?

I mean you may as well be voting him, right? I don't see what else you're going to do in this situation.

I'm sorry alchemist that I didn't keep my promise about tapering my posting down.

It’s ok. I could tell you were holding back up until the Lycanfire push and it was greatly appreciated.

Thank you, I was, I will again, and I appreciate that you've been staying up to date on the thread and scumhunting, otherwise it would have been really difficult to trust you I think. I can't really imagine a scenario where you bus Cephrir like this as scum lmao. I also remember Flavor Leaf was against D1 bussing.

[Frogsterking]

Freud was right about the death impulse

You can always self vote in order to prevent spewing your team. It won't affect my reads but who knows, it might help.

[Frogsterking]

I mean you may as well be voting him, right? I don't see what else you're going to do in this situation.

? I still want Dionysus

And how is that going to look after Cephrir flips scum?

[Frogsterking]

Freud was right about the death impulse

You can always self vote in order to prevent spewing your team. It won't affect my reads but who knows, it might help.

Can you not? Cephrir wasn’t wrong when he said some of your posts were unfair to him and this is one of them.

Yeah I can do that. Sorry, Cephrir.

[Frogsterking]

And how is that going to look after Cephrir flips scum?

Do you think I'm scum?

Yes.

[Frogsterking]

Why?

It will take me a long time to actually write up all the reasons. The first few things in chronological order were that you didn't express any paranoia about my alignment, you were extremely pockety with how you treated my page 1 post wrt to Eiralox, and I value T3's early scum ping on you pretty highly. Also, you didn't question Brickwalll while you were voting them for pressure which I notice are things you often combine as Town, and you moved your vote before Brickwalll could do anything AI. In fact this lack of questioning who you are voting and innopportune vote movements are a common theme in fact in your ISO. Non-chronologically, off the top of my head I value Enchant's point in 285 pretty highly, I noticed your SvS interaction with lycanfire, you TMI'd Penguin as Town, I believe you are a capable scum hunter who can recognize that Dionysus is likely to be Town and I believe this whole Dionysus push is likely to be a counterwagon. Tonight your language in 586 was extremely suspicious: you seem self-conscious in general when posting with Cephrir (which you do reluctantly after I call you both out together) and in 586 you felt the need to qualify that you *are* in fact trying to sort Cephrir lol.

That is basically just the cliff notes of my scum case on you. Really it is going to be quite difficult to convince me that you're Town because I have a lot on you. I think if I had to choose a few things overall that would help to change my mind it would be if you could convince me that you didn't magically divine my alignment at the beginning of the game, you and lycanfire weren't SvS, and there was some purpose behind your vote movements throughout the game.

[Frogsterking]

Town
Dionysus
Furtiveglance
Penguinpower
Enchant
Alchemist
Dragons

Town lean

Brickwalll
T3
Eiralox

Null

0

Scum lean

0

Scum

NM
CSF
Cephrir

[Frogsterking]

Town
Dionysus
Furtiveglance
Penguinpower
Enchant
Alchemist
Dragons
Brickwalll
Eiralox
T3

Town lean

0

Null

0

Scum lean

0

Scum

NM
CSF
Cephrir

[Frogsterking]

I agree with your top 3 and bottom 1^

Well I'd say we're getting along pretty well then! I am confident though I reached my goal here of going 3/3

I'm procrastinating writing up my explanations. I think at this point as long as I get them up anytime before D1 ends it should be okay.

[Frogsterking]

Eiralox, is writer's burnout a thing?

[Frogsterking]

You seem extremely reactive, Cephrir.

[Frogsterking]

You seem extremely reactive, Cephrir.

I mean this both in general, and specifically you seem reactive to the idea of being tied to NM and CSF

[Frogsterking]

Everything can burn, and once the sun dies, will

That's hot

[Frogsterking]

But yes, as with anything done strenuously, I'd say writer's/editor's burnout exist.

I feel that IMO from this and IRL.

You seem extremely reactive, Cephrir.

I mean this both in general, and specifically you seem reactive to the idea of being tied to NM and CSF

Yeah because it's wrong lmao

And anyone who has played one scum game with CSF should be able to identify her as town here

You seem extremely reactive, Cephrir.

I mean this both in general, and specifically you seem reactive to the idea of being tied to NM and CSF

[Frogsterking]

Very well then.

I'm not voting you now, or soon to be frank. I like Dionysus's current vote, not seeing T3 having their head in the game here if I'm frank.

End transmission.


(those are a lot franks!)

Are you familiar with the principle "reads vs reasons" ? That's the gist of my Townread on T3. I also think his read progression on me is believable. I think T3 expected me to be more toxic and bad takes, and he reevaluated when he saw that I was putting in a good effort.

[Frogsterking]

Very well then.

I'm not voting you now, or soon to be frank. I like Dionysus's current vote, not seeing T3 having their head in the game here if I'm frank.

End transmission.


(those are a lot franks!)

I'm interested to see what T3 says their current thoughts are. To clarify, I mean like a vulture is interested in a possibly dying person, not like I'm interested to see the new Ant-Man film.

[Frogsterking]

"no thanks, my head is very comfy inside of my ass. it's warm in here."

I thought you didn't want to talk to me?

[Frogsterking]

yeah, you're right. i should have known better

i think i'm town as fuck right now but clearly you can't be reasoned with

[Frogsterking]

My feeling is that if you saw me going on the wrong track wrt my other reads then you would keep your mouth shut in hopes that I become tunneled and let you off the hook.

[Frogsterking]

ugh...i don't think ceph is scum anymore

Nah you're good dude. It's self doubt. We're on the right track.

Scum!cephrir will fight hard to avoid being the D1 lim because it completely screws over his team in Mini Normal.

Zoraster linked this in the discussion forums:

http://games-net.de/hosted/tggc/trash/m ... 0&do=Go%21

Town winrate on a mislim D1 is about 30% and Town winrate on a scum lim D1 is about 60% ...in MOUNTAINOUS

So with TPR involved, scum are facing an enormous uphill battle it scum!cephrir gets eliminated. Remember ratcoons are most dangerous when they're backed into a corner

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: enchant

Enchant is Town. I've never seen Enchant scum hunt so much and stay involved with a game before.

[Frogsterking]

Is a bit LAMIST? When I pondered the game last night I realized that I've seen Enchant make posts like this before, but IIRC NM's M.O. is to hardclaim scum.

ughhhh I don't know. I'm kind of thinking to that game I modded & you were in where he just went "I'm mason" without anything to back it up. If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably NAI.

Because he was mason?

I don't see point.

Not surprising, considering both masons died at same night.

I still don't see point of bringing it up

Wise.

You know that NM doing it just to hammer?

Wise.

...you aren't being pinged by NM's activity in the thread?

What do you expect scum!NM to be doing over the last couple pages in a scum!Cephrir, scum!NM world?

I'm feeling comfortable that I'm 3/3 right now. Of course I can be wrong but it's been looking promising.

Probably NM does same thing.

I truly don't understand how my posts generated zero enchant votes nor even a response from enchant

Am I invisible

Well i can troll you further, but you mostly troll yourself already.

All of these posts are sorting IMO. I'd expect you to understand that actually Penguin because (from my point of view) reading Enchant's ISO right now is a lot like how your Town ISO usually looks by now, Penguin, minus the wagoning. If you read between the lines you can see there is some intent to solve and to question what others are saying in a very non-agenda-y way. If you don't read between the lines then it looks like filler and lurking, which was how I interpreted your Town ISO in LOST.

I don't think Cephrir should be given Town credit for trying to redirect an elimination onto Enchant of all players after he failed to do so with Eiralox and furtiveglance lmao.

[Frogsterking]

i thought brickwall's entrance was scummy but the fact he was memeing about it just now improves my opinion

furtive seems more... agreeable? than i'm used to. would anyone who's played with him more than i have care to comment

I haven't moved yet, I got lost in my head for a second. I'll go now.

@

Eiralox

Are you getting any scum!mohab vibes from Dionysus?

This scum!mohab: viewtopic.php?t=89826&user_select%5B%5D=31103

ok i wasnt gonna even try to read this but what a bizarre post lmao

VOTE: eiralox

i think this person got trapped in a joke and doesn't know how to get out of it and start actually playing the game

not very impressed with STD either

@std here's why ive been suspecting you even the dumb stuff

-i still think post 155 is needlessly affiliative and not good and it's strange to me the way you phrased it ("you missed that we mindmelded" just doesn't seem like a correct characterization of the events that occurred to me). perhaps you will remember "needlessly affiliative" as something i look for
-i have nothing to support this but i think you're more fun as town and you haven't really been that fun here
-i think you know that i can get tilted and i would think you would not want to activate that by greeting me with a vote and a reminder of all the reasons i feel ambivalent about mafia

i don't agree with your insistence that i can't derive any meaningful meta from a game in which i was scum. i think you were obviously town in that game. many other players were non-obviously town. this is something scum need to pay attention to to figure out where their mislims are going to come from. it's puzzling to me that you can't see the difference -- you played very differently from this there

also from now: -i dunno why you weren't feeling enchant enough to vote dionysus for no reason if he was playing exactly to your scum-enchant model you've just explained

real spicy reads there t3, good to see someone who isn't afraid to buck the consensus

Wagon shopping. Any wagon who doesn't catch interest Cephrir discards.

[Frogsterking]

Cephrir simply doubled down on the Enchant push because he found something to sell which Town wanted to buy:

I feel enchant actually plays when theyre town and trolls when they're scum

Why does that sound familiar? I think I have a completed game with someone may have said it then. Let me see if I can find it.

It used to be true, but I don't really think that's true anymore.

I can’t find the game right now anyway so I may be confusing then with Elements or someone else. Still at work and might look again when I’m at home.

Came home and looked again. I don’t have any past games with Enchant.

I truly don't understand how my posts generated zero enchant votes nor even a response from enchant

Am I invisible

I was going to ask why you voted Enchant even though you had games disproving the theory, but after looking at the right-to-wrong ratio figured you were basing it on it being more-likely-than-not rather than a 100% always happens thing.

In that one game where he was Town and you said it took a while for Enchant to start obvTowning, about how long exactly did that take?

Oh right I remember

That was the one where he claimed bodyguard and started interacting mechanics in a town motivated way. It wasn't until he claimed that I started to see it

Ok, and am I correct that you’re going on the basis of “he’s more likely scum than not” or is there another reason you’re not giving Enchant some benefit of the doubt here?

Oh right I remember

That was the one where he claimed bodyguard and started interacting mechanics in a town motivated way. It wasn't until he claimed that I started to see it

Ok, and am I correct that you’re going on the basis of “he’s more likely scum than not” or is there another reason you’re not giving Enchant some benefit of the doubt here?

Correct - if that process gives me an 80% chance of reading enchant correctly for example, that is way better than I can do for any other player right now by normal methods

Ok, fair enough. I don’t think I can ask you anymore meaningful questions about Enchant.

Are there any other players in this game you feel you can read more accurately than random based on your past experiences with them?

Are there any players here you think could read

you

more accurately than random?

You can see Cephrir hooks in alchemist with the Enchant theory (I think likely because alchemist

wanted

there to be someone who could sell him a method of reading Enchant.)

Does anyone actually believe Cephrir would still be pushing Enchant if he hadn't found there were players eager to follow him onto that wagon? I predict that, just like the other 6-7 slots Cephrir shopped for a wagon on, Cephrir would have simply moved on to find another target.

Oh right I remember

That was the one where he claimed bodyguard and started interacting mechanics in a town motivated way. It wasn't until he claimed that I started to see it

Ok, and am I correct that you’re going on the basis of “he’s more likely scum than not” or is there another reason you’re not giving Enchant some benefit of the doubt here?

Correct - if that process gives me an 80% chance of reading enchant correctly for example, that is way better than I can do for any other player right now by normal methods

98.2938722% statistics made up on the spot.

[Frogsterking]

I am trying to figure out how to link posts from mafiauniverse lol. I got talked out of a D1 scumread there in a similar way the conversation between alchemist and Cephrir went.

[Frogsterking]

asking one question about how to read furtive isn't pushing anything

Correct, it's wagon shoping to see how willing players are to push there, without actually committing to a read on furtiveglance.

Furtiveglance seems "agreeable" my ass lmao. I think you assumed furtiveglance would be an easy target and you quickly found out otherwise.

[Frogsterking]

My bad, it wasn't just that furtiveglance seems "agreeable", it was " more agreeable THAN USUAL", suggesting furtiveglance is behaving abnormally to see if the idea catches on. When it doesn't, you abandon it. Lycanfire tried the exact same thing wrt furtiveglance.

[Frogsterking]

frogsterking with a lot of busy work, probscum.

brickwall sharing their life story most definitely scum.

furtive making conversation all game also scum.

VOTE: furtive

by reading this post and not voting for scum you are... also scum.

Wagon shopping.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Cephrir

My reasoning is that IF Cephrir is going to be an active scum slot then I think technically it's best to go for the lurk!scum (who I believe to be NM but am not sure.) I expect this level of engagement is only temporary and Cephrir will start lurking though as soon as their slot is better positioned. I think the chances of this flipping scum are extremely high and there is only one other slot who I FoS to a similar degree. This should not only be a leading wagon, I think this should eventually be the D1 lim as well. I'm going to get some rest and elaborate on the rest of my reads later. Don't trust Cephrir lmao.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Cephrir

My reasoning is that IF Cephrir is going to be an active scum slot then I think technically it's best to go for the lurk!scum (who I believe to be NM but am not sure.)

I expect this level of engagement is only temporary and Cephrir will start lurking though as soon as their slot is better positioned.

I think the chances of this flipping scum are extremely high and there is only one other slot who I FoS to a similar degree. This should not only be a leading wagon, I think this should eventually be the D1 lim as well. I'm going to get some rest and elaborate on the rest of my reads later. Don't trust Cephrir lmao.

[Frogsterking]

im also guilty of lurking even though i haven't done it yet

futurecrimes

Superficial reading, another scum tell. Try rubbing your eyes and reading 784 again.

[Frogsterking]

im also guilty of lurking even though i haven't done it yet

futurecrimes

The cruel irony being that this actually is a scum tell, Cephrir:

Subject: Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

there's always the 'future content' time traveler

What is that?

scums are time travelers because they know the solution to the mystery so they are more likely to play in the future rather than the present and often have a plan for how they hope or think things will play out or potentially play out whereas towns are just weighing very most likely mafia right now

like you'll often see this present itself with players saying 'i am going to do this' or 'hold me to this' because they have an expectation of themselves

which isn't an only comes from mafia thing but more often than random would indicate in my experience

if i were better at construct thought process and less messy maybe i'd be able to apply / know when to apply when not to apply

but like i said, maybe not super applicable here anyway especially as the survey was something you planned on doing before the game started and! probably better/more accurate to evaluate the second half of day one forward rather than trying to weigh it preemptively

Subject: Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

Galaxy brains switch to Cephrir for doing this instead of all the--less abstract--prior tells

[Frogsterking]

I'm not sure why I addressed 790 to Cephrir. Probably because I wasn't sure if anyone would understand it anyway.

[Frogsterking]

anything a scum player in any game has ever done before is a scumtell

mafia is so easy

Inutile wasn't scum they were Town explaining a scum tell

[Frogsterking]

I think most who actually read that post with a sorting mindset would have easily assumed it was written by Town.

[Frogsterking]

795

Calm down dude

[Frogsterking]

The copypasta is funny tho

It would have been more funny if it made any sense. If I really were that smart I would discover and describe the future tell myself rather than quoting the person who had to explain it to me. I guess Cephrir main motivation is to shade me and your main motivation is to interpret everything Cephrir posts in a positive light so you don't have to vote him out, so it makes sense you two would be pretty pleased with 795.

[Frogsterking]

<3

If people want enchant they'll vote enchant. I think its ridiculous to call what enchants done so far townie

If you get limmed its just annoying but not the end of the world

I think dionysus followed up with content so it's not really a wolfy pop in

Enchant is Town, sorry. If you want to understand how I read Enchant then you can try asking questions instead of declaring that my read is ridiculous when I doubt you really put much thought into what I said.

[Frogsterking]

The copypasta is funny tho

It would have been more funny if it made any sense. If I really were that smart I would discover and describe the future tell myself rather than quoting the person who had to explain it to me. I guess Cephrir main motivation is to shade me and your main motivation is to interpret everything Cephrir posts in a positive light so you don't have to vote him out, so it makes sense you two would be pretty pleased with 795.

Have you never seen the Rick and Morty copypasta before?

I don't think so. Have you?

[Frogsterking]

Okay fine, I'll admit 795 is kind of funny

[Frogsterking]

So my main take away from the last few pages is:

1) frogster vs Cephrir is really fucking funny. Thank you so much for replacing in as it has made this day very entertaining
2) frogster is going to extreme lengths to dig up dirt on Cephrir which I think is very +++town. It means he legit believes in his read because if Cephrir flips town then this would look so bad.
3) I townread alchemist already but I definitely feel sure he is Town now. He has been engaged and scum hunting and I have liked his analysis. So not that the question is relevant anymore if I had to hammer either him or NM I'd go NM.
4) I still think Cephrir is scum
5) although I think Cephrir's enchant analysis is interesting
6) this could be svs but it was largely ignored or disagreed with so maybe they are wrong

Which interaction are you saying could be scum v scum?

Also for (1), it’s funny until it’s not. Last night was actually really uncomfortable and I think the personal beef between them is making things worse.

Nothing huge but Cephrir scumreading enchant because of meta and complaining about it being ignored and then enchant trolling with this post but I want to stress that this is a maaaaaaaybe that is probably wrong.

And fair enough. I wasn't around when this was happening, if they are always like this together it would indeed be annoying.

This is interesting though.

Enchant?

[Frogsterking]

i recommend protecting csf she's the only one capable of leading this town out of whatever drug induced haze they're currently operating under

I said it before and I’ll say it again; if you flip Town I will sheep this read.

In fact even if you’re scum I don’t think you’re lying about CSF being Town.

I disagree with this take, alchemist, I do think Cephrir is sharp and he is very aware of how his words will be interpreted after his death. He only started saying CSF is obvtown after I posted my team solve. There are associative tells between Cephrir and CSF slot. Usually I am all for looking at words and getting preflip information, in this case though I think it's important to take the actions of both heavily into account.

If you want to dig into this, then answer me this:

Often when scum decide to hard defend a Town slot, they are able to pick up on details and post arguments about a slot is Town, because scum already know where to look. If that's what Cephrir is doing, how come he has such a limited ability to describe WHY CSF is actually Town?

[Frogsterking]

Associative tells between CSF and Cephrir slot*

Because of lycanfire.

[Frogsterking]

The copypasta is funny tho

It would have been more funny if it made any sense. If I really were that smart I would discover and describe the future tell myself rather than quoting the person who had to explain it to me. I guess Cephrir main motivation is to shade me and your main motivation is to interpret everything Cephrir posts in a positive light so you don't have to vote him out, so it makes sense you two would be pretty pleased with 795.

What exactly are you accusing me of since I'm not in your half of D1 entire team solve

I'm accusing you of taking my Enchant Town read in bad faith and I think there's a chance I could explain it better if you're the one asking me questions about it.

[Frogsterking]

Okay here's a really clear example IMO:

Is a bit LAMIST? When I pondered the game last night I realized that I've seen Enchant make posts like this before, but IIRC NM's M.O. is to hardclaim scum.

ughhhh I don't know. I'm kind of thinking to that game I modded & you were in where he just went "I'm mason" without anything to back it up. If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably NAI.

Because he was mason?

I don't see point.

Not surprising, considering both masons died at same night.

I still don't see point of bringing it up

Enchant is right to call out CSF here. CSF deflected from my actual question about NM by redirecting to a completely different topic. The fact that Enchant

#1 was actually reading the game at the time CSF posted it. In fact this is a common theme if you read Enchant's entire ISO, they seem to be somewhat omnipresent in the thread though very selective about what they choose to comment on.

#2 Enchant calling anyone out correctly for being deflective shows that Enchant is actually reading

closely

what players are saying.

#3 Enchant doubles down on CSF after she redirects the conversation a second time, so he's following up on his original question, something I don't think scum!Enchant bothers to fake very often.

#4 Enchant doesn't vote CSF: scum!Enchant doesn't put the effort into faking read progressions (usually), so if this interaction were a fake by scum!Enchant then I expect the motivation would be to place a vote down on CSF. The fact that Enchant doesn't do this signals to me that Enchant's motivation was to collect information which is something that scum!Enchant DEFINITELY doesn't do.

[Frogsterking]

Associative tells between CSF and Cephrir slot*

Because of lycanfire.

What associative tells do you think were made when Lycanfire was still in the slot?

Where was the reaction to CSF vote?

[Frogsterking]

Oh I'm sorry, I thought you asked what associative tells toward CSF that lycanfire made specifically. I've been procrastinating on explaining why--which CSF asked me to do--CSF's own actions implicated them both because I feel like there are multiple ways that she did and it will take some effort to explain them all properly.

[Frogsterking]

Associative tells between CSF and Cephrir slot*

Because of lycanfire.

What associative tells do you think were made when Lycanfire was still in the slot?

Where was the reaction to CSF vote?

There were a lot of votes Lycan didn’t react to.

Lycanfire was posting at the time CSF voted him. Lycanfire made 6 posts in one "session" and CSF voted him in between his first and second post.

[Frogsterking]

They pagetopped this together:

frogsterking with a lot of busy work, probscum.

brickwall sharing their life story most definitely scum.

furtive making conversation all game also scum.

VOTE: furtive

by reading this post and not voting for scum you are... also scum.

VOTE: Lycanfire

Lycanfire and CSF both continue posting and lycanfire doesn't react to CSF.

[Frogsterking]

@froggy

Upon first glance I'm not sure I'm convinced but I'll take a closer look when I can

Thank you

[Frogsterking]

Associative tells between CSF and Cephrir slot*

Because of lycanfire.

What associative tells do you think were made when Lycanfire was still in the slot?

Where was the reaction to CSF vote?

There were a lot of votes Lycan didn’t react to.

Associative tells between CSF and Cephrir slot*

Because of lycanfire.

What associative tells do you think were made when Lycanfire was still in the slot?

Where was the reaction to CSF vote?

There were a lot of votes Lycan didn’t react to.

Lycanfire was posting at the time CSF voted him. Lycanfire made 6 posts in one "session" and CSF voted him in between his first and second post.

Check the time stamps on page 4, alchemist.

[Frogsterking]

If that's what Cephrir is doing, how come he has such a limited ability to describe WHY CSF is actually Town?

because no one has asked and i don't know if csf wants me to say it based on a post she made a while ago

It's fine if you say it

ok

csf is town because she's posting, her scum game is really bad

I'm aware of CSF's scum range and how lively she is playing this game, with absolutely no assistance from her team until you showed up.

[Frogsterking]

Oh shoot I actually didn't intend that to be a dig at Cephrir at all. I just meant to say that yes Cephrir is correct that CSF is usually lurk!scum, and I believe that for most of the beginning of the game CSF was basically solo, and when her first AWOL partner replaced out, the replacement was NM lmao. My read on her is that she stepped up to the occasion and increased her activity levels.

[Frogsterking]

What a pair of replacements lmao. Welcome!

[Frogsterking]

I’m back with a lot of pages having passed since I last was here. Please point me to anything I’ve missed or pressing, and I’ll begin reading through.

Sorry, I'll go back to trying to keep my posts in check, I need to take a break anyway. I don't have any posts to link to off the top of my head but if you have any questions for me now I'll keep an eye on the thread.

[Frogsterking]

Why?

It will take me a long time to actually write up all the reasons. The first few things in chronological order were that you didn't express any paranoia about my alignment, you were extremely pockety with how you treated my page 1 post wrt to Eiralox, and I value T3's early scum ping on you pretty highly. Also, you didn't question Brickwalll while you were voting them for pressure which I notice are things you often combine as Town, and you moved your vote before Brickwalll could do anything AI. In fact this lack of questioning who you are voting and innopportune vote movements are a common theme in fact in your ISO. Non-chronologically, off the top of my head I value Enchant's point in 285 pretty highly, I noticed your SvS interaction with lycanfire, you TMI'd Penguin as Town, I believe you are a capable scum hunter who can recognize that Dionysus is likely to be Town and I believe this whole Dionysus push is likely to be a counterwagon. Tonight your language in 586 was extremely suspicious: you seem self-conscious in general when posting with Cephrir (which you do reluctantly after I call you both out together) and in 586 you felt the need to qualify that you *are* in fact trying to sort Cephrir lol.

Why do you value T3's scum ping?

I just think Dionysus has a decent chance of flipping scum >_> and if you weren't preflipping people and seriously considered my meta point, maybe you'd see it

Penguin is just an easy read

That is basically just the cliff notes of my scum case on you.

(1) Really it is going to be quite difficult to convince me that you're Town because I have a lot on you.

I think if I had to choose a few things overall that would help to change my mind it would be if you could convince me that

(2) you didn't magically divine my alignment at the beginning of the game

,

(3) you and lycanfire weren't SvS

, and (4) there was some purpose behind your vote movements throughout the game.

1. I'm a very easy sort... like look at my past games. I don't want to go into it more than that.

2. Your start didn't ping me.... so I don't know if I can convince you of this. But even if your initial post did ping me, I wouldn't have pointed it out right away. Me sussing you based on your first post in xyzzy game was a tactical error of mine that I realized quickly into Day 1.

3. Can you quote what you think was SvS with Lycanfire?

4. This will happen but in an hour or so. The move off Brickwall was because his entrance didn't ping me whereas Eiralox's did, and I thought it was a better shout for getting out of RVS faster. Wagons based off of "gut" can be easily shrugged off; the faster you can vote someone with an explained reason, the better

I'm going to respond to this by the way. Also AFAIK you never followed up on 4.

[Frogsterking]

StD what made you scumread Cephrir in Temple? Can you pinpoint anything you're seeing that's different this game?

The pt helped he wasn't really solving me and was getting tilted that I was scumreading him for what he probably thought were dumb reasons

I don't want to say I'm an expert cephrir reader cuz I'm not but I'm ok at it and I'm feeling his energy as frustration for being wrongly scumread this time. I think he's town here but I'm probably not going to bet the farm on it yet

Do you believe scum!Cephrir would display genuine frustration here? Do you believe Cephrir is easier to read when he is pushing you, ie seeing how he approaches your slot helps you to sort him?

[Frogsterking]

@

alchemist

863 did you take into account the time stamps, the context of the game and what they were motivated by?

I'm sorry I walked into this a weird way by answering what I didn't like from only one side (lycanfire.) For example, it isn't just that lycanfire didn't ask CSF why she voted him, CSF didn't ask lycanfire about his reads either, despite them both being online at the same time...

[Frogsterking]

1.16

Votecount 1.16

Cephrir (3): Frogsterking, Alchemist21, furtiveglance
Enchant (3): Save The Dragons, Cephrir, PenguinPower
Dionysus (2): Brickwalll, Cat Scratch Fever
T3 (2): Dionysus, Eiralox
Brickwalll (1): Enchant

Not Voting (2): T3, Not_Mafia

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-02-14 13:44:18).

Hey Penguin, can you switch back to Cephrir pretty please? I am feeling in my bones that Enchant is Town.

[Frogsterking]

Idk i think all mafia elims r1 are luck based or helped by mafia

You mean it requires luck in order to get everyone to agree at the same time?

VOTE: enchant

Enchant is Town. I've never seen Enchant scum hunt so much and stay involved with a game before.

Yeah but Enchant only got involved after Cephrir pushed him for not being involved.

So?

My conundrum here is that responding fully to T3 could interrupt Eiralox' attempt to sort T3. I'll just say I like posts for Town-getting-involved from Enchant even before Cephrir came around, like 285 and 288.

[Frogsterking]

It's difficult for me to say but my team solve is [alchemist/CSF/NM]. I'm no longer optimistic that we'll actually get a wagon through on scum unless players are willing to block vote with me.

Yes to frustration

It was more that it felt like he already knew i was town

I am taking your perspective on Cephir seriously. For example I don't get the sense reading his ISO that he knew your alignment at all. I think it may have been genuine. Do you feel like he would have burned out sooner as scum?

If that's what Cephrir is doing, how come he has such a limited ability to describe WHY CSF is actually Town?

because no one has asked and i don't know if csf wants me to say it based on a post she made a while ago

It's fine if you say it

ok

csf is town because she's posting, her scum game is really bad

The problem with your read is that you aren't taking into account the other side of the coin: CSF's Town game is good. Lurk!scum can temporarily force themselves to post though it's not of great quality. What happens if you ISO CSF and you try reading it how Benoit Blanc would instead of like Elmer Fudd?

I also believe your read on Enchant is bull shit but I think you're right about alchemist. These wagons are all bull shit IMO, we need a new flash wagon and I deeply suspect this dude is full of shit:

VOTE: alchemist

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Dionysus

I'm not feeling Ceph now...i'll give you a new counterwagon though

I appreciate that for real, I believe that Dionysus is telling the truth though. Can you please help me flash wagon alchemist?

Idk i think all mafia elims r1 are luck based or helped by mafia

You mean it requires luck in order to get everyone to agree at the same time?

Combo of factors actually

Okay that I definitely agree with. Can you please help me flash wagon alchemist?

[Frogsterking]

I... Need a minute to process this lol

1) I was right wasn't I?

2) Is alchemist a Flavor Leaf alt? They either are or they learned from him. He is exploiting your Town read on CSF and your scum read on Enchant, and until I flipped my read on you he was exploiting my scum read on you.

[Frogsterking]

I was right* meaning I was right to listen to Dragons and Penguin and flip my read on you.

[Frogsterking]

I’m back with a lot of pages having passed since I last was here. Please point me to anything I’ve missed or pressing, and I’ll begin reading through.

I would still like a response to 263.

Beyond that, most of the talk has been around Cephrir so I’d like your take on the whole Cephrir situation once you’re caught up.

@

Brickwalll

you don't have to do it lmao. I think he is assigning you busy work to try and get you to flip your read on him.

Associative tells between CSF and Cephrir slot*

Because of lycanfire.

What associative tells do you think were made when Lycanfire was still in the slot?

Who would like to know?

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Dionysus

I'm not feeling Ceph now...i'll give you a new counterwagon though

I think this dude is Town too though, can you please help me flash wagon alchemist?

Idk i think all mafia elims r1 are luck based or helped by mafia

You mean it requires luck in order to get everyone to agree at the same time?

Combo of factors actually

Okay now that I definitely agree with. Can you help me flash wagon alchemist?

[Frogsterking]

Holy shit, Penguin's right. I thought both posts were NM.

Enchant is Town IMO and Enchant + NM are never scum together.

I'll take a hint and reserve judgement on NM!Town because I got unanimous rejection to that idea.

I'm on pace to have a perfect gamesolve halfway through D1! I guess I could use a second opinion on alchemist though to make sure I'm not getting pocketed.

He hasn't pinged me, but for some reason I remember alchemist having a decent scum game, so i don't really think enough has happened to say he's town with great confidence. I can't remember him saying anything original, but maybe he hasn't had the chance to

That’s fair. I did once get nommed for a scummie for my scum game, though most of those games I was partnered with Flavor Leaf too.

I’ll be able to give the game more attention if not when I get home after today’s shift then on Wednesday when I’m off.

Flavor Leaf?

Holy shit, Penguin's right. I thought both posts were NM.

Enchant is Town IMO and Enchant + NM are never scum together.

I'll take a hint and reserve judgement on NM!Town because I got unanimous rejection to that idea.

I'm on pace to have a perfect gamesolve halfway through D1! I guess I could use a second opinion on alchemist though to make sure I'm not getting pocketed.

He hasn't pinged me, but for some reason I remember alchemist having a decent scum game, so i don't really think enough has happened to say he's town with great confidence. I can't remember him saying anything original, but maybe he hasn't had the chance to

Because he told you in the scum PT. Really bad, sorry.

[Frogsterking]

You got me on board for Cephrir now

I just think he feels more similar to Temple than Warrior Cats

He's bitter rather than detached

I've been thinking about the difference

Why did you get off? and why Alchemist?

I'm trusting Penguin and Dragon reads on Cephrir and alchemist has done a number of scum tactics I have seen before. I think CSF and alchemist played around each other really sloppy and it shows in their ISOs. If you read alchemist ISO from the frame of Town!Cephrir Scum!CSF I think you'll see what I mean.

[Frogsterking]

@Furtiveglance

These are truly terrible:

i recommend protecting csf she's the only one capable of leading this town out of whatever drug induced haze they're currently operating under

I said it before and I’ll say it again; if you flip Town I will sheep this read.

In fact even if you’re scum I don’t think you’re lying about CSF being Town.

That was so smooth I actually thought that was CSF for a second there.

i recommend protecting csf she's the only one capable of leading this town out of whatever drug induced haze they're currently operating under

I said it before and I’ll say it again; if you flip Town I will sheep this read.

In fact even if you’re scum I don’t think you’re lying about CSF being Town.

I disagree with this take, alchemist, I do think Cephrir is sharp and he is very aware of how his words will be interpreted after his death. He only started saying CSF is obvtown after I posted my team solve. There are associative tells between Cephrir and CSF slot. Usually I am all for looking at words and getting preflip information, in this case though I think it's important to take the actions of both heavily into account.

If you want to dig into this, then answer me this:

Often when scum decide to hard defend a Town slot, they are able to pick up on details and post arguments about a slot is Town, because scum already know where to look. If that's what Cephrir is doing, how come he has such a limited ability to describe WHY CSF is actually Town?

Some people don’t really like explaining their metareads on people because it can make them aware of it, and nobody’s actually asked Cephrir to explain it so we can’t really say he doesn’t have the ability to.

CSF has been his most vocal defender, and if scum Cephrir is wagon shopping he’s still probably not going to point fingers at his best chance of staying alive.

[Frogsterking]

@furtiveglance

This is terrible:

@Cephrir

Do you have any sort of personal grudge against frogsterking?

Fueling TvT

Don't turn off the muzak

I can get you more muzak. Lol

Pocketing

^Furtive said restless, not reckless, but I’m not trying to get bogged down in semantics. I don’t necessarily agree with the T3 read, but after furtive’s explanation, I can see why they were seeing that in T3’s posts and why they would push T3 on it.

Pocketing toward you (furtiveglance)

In fact yeah, this ISO is pretty bad.

[Frogsterking]

I... Need a minute to process this lol

I... Need a minute to process this lol

1) I was right wasn't I?

2) Is alchemist a Flavor Leaf alt? They either are or they learned from him. He is exploiting your Town read on CSF and your scum read on Enchant, and until I flipped my read on you he was exploiting my scum read on you.

I was right* meaning I was right to listen to Dragons and Penguin and flip my read on you.

You didn't expect me to pull my head out of my ass but it will all be for nothing if we don't kill scum. I think [alchemist/CSF/NM] are 3 scum.