Normal 2302: Magical Girls | GAME OVER

[Elements]

VOTE: elements

Rude
VOTE: Elements

[Elements]

UNVOTE:

but who did you unvote!
I don't understand!
why does nothing make sense!

[Elements]

It’s a secret. they were E1 tho so I save lives

clearly town

[Elements]

hi guys,

just an fyi that i am town, and as such you don't need to worry about sorting my slot. takes it down from 12 players to 11 for y'all so hopefully we can all agree i'm chill and move on.

on another note,
VOTE: Elements

I was going to ask you to come and vote me, but I thought I'd wait for you to turn up first and now you've beaten me to it

[Elements]

Hello

General

[Elements]

hi guys,

just an fyi that i am town, and as such you don't need to worry about sorting my slot. takes it down from 12 players to 11 for y'all so hopefully we can all agree i'm chill and move on.

on another note,
VOTE: Elements

Instant townread. I'm also town so no need to worry about my slot. Takes it from 11 to 10. We got this!

beware the townblocks of page one

[Elements]

Hello

there

General

Kenobi

Sargent?

[Elements]

bloop

[Elements]

It's not a block. Just 2 players that are taking a leap of faith. I Town read it.

'twas a jest
'twas a jest

[Elements]

How viable is this strategy?: the last two players to claim town are evil

From my vast experience of having never done it before I'm going to ay it's the most foolproof strategy out there

[Elements]

I read that as villainry to start with

[Elements]

weeeee......and we are doing stuff.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball..for old time sake.

You can be town for now

[Elements]

You can be town too

[Elements]

And you can be scum number 1

[Elements]

And you can be scum number 1

If you think Bristep is currently scum number 1, why haven't you voted there?

Not a big enough wagon there yet

[Elements]

Town

Emperor flippyNips
Towwl
Morning Tweet
OopsieDaisy
Hu Tao
DrippingGoofball
sheepsaysmeep
Save The Dragons
Merlyn
geraintm
curiouskarmadog
bristep123

Scum

[Elements]

Oopsie is probably town

Tone or vibes?

[Elements]

or are they the same thing?

[Elements]

VOTE: bristep123

[Elements]

curiouskarmadog and Hu Tao both had a lot of people scumreading them in large 243 and both were town. Also the on-again-off-again relationship between Andante and Flavor Leaf on D1/D2 was fun to read but that's not quite as relevant here.

How far into the game were they incorrectly scum read? And what were the reasons?

[Elements]

This doesn't help me sort you so you can have a B

[Elements]

Elements what would you say determines your motivation to play a particular game? This is not a set up for a gotcha but a srs question.

I like playing mafia? A lil bit of chaos, hyperfixation, for this game in particular playing with Daisy coz she hasn't played a forum game in a while.

[Elements]

VOTE: bristep

I like wagons

I like sheep

[Elements]

weeeee......and we are doing stuff.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball..for old time sake.

You can be town for now

VOTE: Elements

what about now?

As I'm sure you can see from my readlist, you are in the scum zone

[Elements]

game so slow is really weird

I agree and I don't like it

[Elements]

Spoiler:

curiouskarmadog and Hu Tao both had a lot of people scumreading them in large 243 and both were town. Also the on-again-off-again relationship between Andante and Flavor Leaf on D1/D2 was fun to read but that's not quite as relevant here.

How far into the game were they incorrectly scum read? And what were the reasons?

ckd was one of the first wagons on D1 because of an early case made against them by scum, vaguely claimed a negative utility pr due to being a prominent wagon and needing to go V/LA for a bit, then was on a lot of people's lists for the rest of the game until they were killed N5 and flipped as an ascetic townie. I think most of their heat came from scum though iirc. They were pretty clearly town to me when I read the thread!

I don't really remember why Hu Tao was SRd though. People just think they have scummy vibes or something. I think activity levels was an argument. D1 went on forever and they were a competing wagon there for a good bit of it. They survived to the end.

I hope I get a good grade on my large normal 243 quiz

This doesn't help me sort you so you can have a B

but you asked the question !!!! Lol

Actually, I do think towwy giving their impression of those players in a separate game could potentially be helpful

Yes, I did.

[Elements]

I use the other pronouns

[Elements]

while you're here sheep, got any thoughts on empereor?

[Elements]

Mental note, don’t attempt humour.

curious why?

Because my rvs with a little joke attached is the one that got the piley-on despite there being a few others to start the game off.

My calling you scum was based off your vote, not your joke

[Elements]

what about hu Tau and Daisy saying they're each town?

[Elements]

Emperor is towny enough for day 1
Daisy I want to lean town, but she hasn't done enough to deserve a town read
Hu Tao is entierly null to me

[Elements]

Daisy claiming town is more likely to come from town!her

[Elements]

I try to play day one to make things happen

[Elements]

Whether it works or not is another matter

[Elements]

Day 1s can be exciting

[Elements]

Do you like final 3s?

[Elements]

How highly do you value meta Daisy?

[Elements]

In terms of other reads:

I like Towwl and Tweet. Towwl gave us some nice insight in 60 from the large normal he read, and instead of using that insight to ignite a push against a player like I am VS Bri, seeing him use that to cover Hu Tao and CKD from immediate susses is more passive yet is something I still like. Unless Towwl is scum with either of them (which is v possible) I like this play a lot and at this point in the game that's enough to lean town here.

Interesting you view it as a town leany thing to do. If anything I think the opposite. All Towwl has done is point out something that happened to two players in a game. It's early day one so there have been hardly any reads going around I need to grab my laptop to type this up

[Elements]

I like Towwl and Tweet. Towwl gave us some nice insight in 60 from the large normal he read, and instead of using that insight to ignite a push against a player like I am VS Bri, seeing him use that to cover Hu Tao and CKD from immediate susses is more passive yet is something I still like. Unless Towwl is scum with either of them (which is v possible) I like this play a lot and at this point in the game that's enough to lean town here.

Interesting you view it as a town leany thing to do. If anything I think the opposite. All Towwl has done is point out something that happened to two players in a game. It's early day one so there have been hardly any reads going around and Towwl is soft defending them. This could easily be Scum!Towwl defending team mates like you said, or Scum!Towwl appealing to people he knows are town, maybe a bit of both. On the passive side, again being passive is a much safer thing for scum to do rather than sticking your neck out and actively pushing or defending a point. So all in all, I hard disagree with you here

[Elements]

How highly do you value meta Daisy?

Also right back at you, how highly do you value meta? I know you've used my meta for and against me a lot but you've also got a lot more forum experience so I'm interested to hear what you think.

I'm not a fan of meta
Partly because most of the time I get bored reading other people's past games
Partly because it's easy to manipulate
Partly because I'm not very good at recognising it

[Elements]

That's fair, just in the absence of content that we have in the game right now I appreciate it. By saying this Towwl is showing he has specific knowledge on these players, and by committing to telling us what that knowledge is, he now has to stick by it. Mafia imo wouldn't show their cards as quickly.

It is knowledge that is public, so it's not something special that's been brought up we couldn't have known otherwise.
Does saying that we know each other well and have played a lot of irl mafia together have the same effect? That's information about two players that the others problaby don't know, and also isn't available for them to find on the site. Therefore potentially showing more cards as it were

[Elements]

Tho I do agree active play > passive play typically, but it always depends on the player. Because I don't know anything about the metas/playstyle of anyone not named Elements/Gera/Bristar in this game I'm not gonna use that as a big point just yet. Especially because we're so early into the game right now.

if
Active > Passive
most of the time

does it not follow that you should default to that assumption when dealing with players you havn't enountered before until shown otherwise?

[Elements]

[quote=OopsieDaisy post_id=13797048 post_num=120 time=1685617179 user_id=35331just yet
[/quote]
I do see the just yet

[Elements]

@StD
what do you think is the most AI post so far?

[Elements]

I mean active as in the content of the posts, not nececarily how often they are.

[Elements]

I mean active as in the content of the posts, not nececarily how often they are.

I still stand by my point. Passivity is a thing that mafia players can lean towards, but it's not a be all end all rule that I wanna be following in terms of my reads.

I want you to know I have no alterior motive when saying this

Otherwise you'd be hard town every game because you are always an active player.

but I think you would be a god tier mafia player if you decided to make passivity/activity the be all end all rule for your reads

[Elements]

also sorry el but i think i slightly scumread you now.

it is what it is

[Elements]

also sorry el but i think i slightly scumread you now. it is incredibly funny to turn the attempt to get me talking about activity into a joke about you trying to get me to read you as town, but i do think there is definitely truth in that joke somewhat and that worries me a tiny bit (and yes you would be this open about it as mafia i know youuu)

for what it's worth, I'm towning you from our interaction

[Elements]

72 and 73

[Elements]

Partly because it's easy to manipulate

what are your thoughts on SOMEONE else using meta?

I think it's easy to manipulate.
I think it can be helpful sometimes and it very much depends on the player one is metaing.
If it helps you make reads, great, go for it, but don't expect me to follow your reads based on the meta you are using to push said read.

[Elements]

does that make sense?

[Elements]

72 and 73

so that I understand, your opinion of me changed in 72 and 73?

ye

[Elements]

and it's changed again visa vi this page

[Elements]

Town

Morning Tweet
sheepsaysmeep
curiouskarmadog
OopsieDaisy
Towwl
Hu Tao
Emperor flippyNips
DrippingGoofball
Save The Dragons
Merlyn
bristep123
geraintm

Scum

[Elements]

lmao, I'm surprised this is the first time anyones noticed

[Elements]

something like 80% of my day 1 reads are made up

[Elements]

you will find me making up reasons for day 1 reads

[Elements]

I asked you about your motivations. You lied.

My day 1 play is to get things to happen. If I say my motivation for doing X is to get things to happen it stops getting things to happen in the same way. So of course I lied, just so happened that this was a provable lie

[Elements]

I looked at your iso to come up with a reason, didn't feel 72, 73, so said it

[Elements]

Is my vote wrong?

yes

[Elements]

the feel very flat

[Elements]

questions with answers I thought were pretty obvious
and your intro post had a lot more energy comapritively

[Elements]

see, NOW this is where a meta comes in.

are you gonna meta me or?

[Elements]

What does energy have to do with being scummy? What does a question being "flat" have to do with being scummy. Do my questions seem flat now?

I town read people more when they have energy
no, they're creating content that people can read.

One was to sus out if someone was using "appeal to emotion" this early in the game and to find out the motivation behind making the post.

What anwer other than "I was immediatley called scum after making a joke post" is there from your question?

the other was to find out why in Day 1 of a new game, we were referencing a large game meta...there was literally no reason to do so.

there's no reason to do a lot of things on day 1, and the comments of Towwl about that game have resulted in game content for this game. So clealy there was a reason

[Elements]

I am not buying ANY of these explanations.

I'm glad

[Elements]

I've played with you before, you haven't said much this game

[Elements]

both times that come to mind right away at least, i think we've played more than twice

I was scum in HMS Mutiny, but I think you died quite early in that one

[Elements]

I asked you about your motivations. You lied.

My day 1 play is to get things to happen. If I say my motivation for doing X is to get things to happen it stops getting things to happen in the same way. So of course I lied, just so happened that this was a provable lie

This seems like a lousy strategy tbh, but I'm still pretty new so what do I know. Do you get a lot of town wins with this?

If you check my wiki page you'll see all the games I've played and if I won, and from that you can tell that no, I don't

[Elements]

Elements what would you say determines your motivation to play a particular game? This is not a set up for a gotcha but a srs question.

I like playing mafia? A lil bit of chaos, hyperfixation, for this game in particular playing with Daisy coz she hasn't played a forum game in a while.

I think this response is villagery lol

I think mafia would be like hmm why is this serious question being asked? how can I appease that?

but he just didnt think about that lol

Lmao

Okay that's not really what i was asking

What I was getting at is the last couple times I played with Elements, iirc they flaked out during the first day after getting some heat. Do you recall Chara's Folly where you ended up being the D1 lim? For one, elements wasn't trying to shake things up and two she definitely wasn't the top poster by a wide margin. I'm curious what is the cause for the change.

Elements was scum in Chara's Folly but they didn't really make too much of an impression on me. Did you know anyone in that game? If you remember Chara's (i wont be forgetting it)

Was this question for me or sheep? I can't tell

[Elements]

I think the way curious reacts to Elements is slightly towny, I don't think scum would see town shifting reads unpredictably and without reason and turn that into "I cannot believe i have caught you in a lie this early". I'd assume it's a gambit or a reaction test or otherwise something deeper, this seems more a genuine reaction

You seem to have a lot of town reads/leans. Do you have anything on the scum side or are you not bothering with that yet?

[Elements]

Is there normally 3 scum in a 13 player?

I normally assume 1 mafia for every 3 town

Yes, but just come from a game with only 2

What was the game? I'm interested in the setup

[Elements]

I like DGB's read giving

[Elements]

I'll probably be low activity tomorrow and Saturday btw, got a lot of driving to do

[Elements]

This is a terrible response to being caught lying!

Why?

[Elements]

Fair

[Elements]

Oi Daisy

[Elements]

Just wanted to say hi :3

[Elements]

It's day 1, wait till day three then I'll have one for you

[Elements]

Re: finding town
That's what I meant by "not bothering with that yet"

Re: Chara
I'll answer when I'm not phone posting, but yes Chara isn't reflective of how I normally play

[Elements]

Elements was scum in Chara's Folly but they didn't really make too much of an impression on me. Did you know anyone in that game?

I knew Hectic irl but that was it.

As for my style, there were a few games quite close to each other I flaked on I think before taking a break for a while. My more recent games I think I've been one of the top posters in most of them as both alignments? Even in the one I replaced out of.

[Elements]

Why is bristep being voted again?

Coz it's the only wagon

[Elements]

El has much more tangible things to be suspicious of, what with the open manipulation of me with the activity point.

I think you're being disingenuous about that conversation. My joke post was a joke, and I dropped the point after you said this:

I will say tho I just had another read of 64 and I seemed to have decided in my head what Towwl said was subjective when looking back now it *is* just the objective fact of "CKD and Hu Tao both had a lot of people scumreading them in large 243 and both were town".

Which is what I didn't understand about your initail reasoning for town reading the post.

[Elements]

You -- where was this "Lie deliberately" and "post the most" in our previous games, why now? I was also mentioning Chara's folly but that game is several years old i wouldnt be surprised if u forgot it. Its possible that game wasn't indicative of how you usually play

Just going back to this quickly

Some recent games of me doing things as town:
(the sort of thing you can look forwards to on day 3 Daisy )
Micro 1067
Newbie 2108

My most recent scum game:
HMS Mutiny

If you want those

[Elements]

Hu Tao is a very nothing slot for me atm

That being said...

I think hu tao is pretty wolfy and underwhelming in comparison to the large normal, and would be a good counterwagon to bristep

SCUM

Hu Tao (Because he explained his vote for me LOL)

We could get quite a nice wagon going....
VOTE: Hu Tao

[Elements]

Merlyn, what do you make of Hu Tao and how can I persuade you join the newly forming wagon there?

[Elements]

Back from London, I'll catch up in a couple of hours

[Elements]

I got distracted and am now going to sleep, will catch up tomorrow

[Elements]

someone come chat with me

[Elements]

I'm not reading 294

[Elements]

I'm not reading 294

Did you read 285?

Briefly, I'll look at it again

[Elements]

I'm not reading 294

Did you read 285?

It's a good post.
I don't like how high ckd is on it, though I am biased.

ckd is tunneling on me, but not pushing it well? Their argument boils down to "Elements lied, and their reason for it is bad". In 148 they meniton when they would use meta, then highlight that again in 155 but do nothing with that? Either ckd looked at my passed games and didn't find anything they could use to back up their attack, or ckd didn't bother checking and is hoping the weight of someone lieing is enough for them to sit on me.

[Elements]

I like your EFN reasonsing too, I'll hop on that if the wagon grows

[Elements]

I like your EFN reasonsing too, I'll hop on that if the wagon grows

Everybody is saying the EFN wagon is viable but refusing to hop on. Feeling very lonely

VOTE: efn

[Elements]

I'm not reading 294

Oh really?

I made a scum slip in there.

too many words for you?

Or are you just trying to get the game started right now?

Why are you being so agressive?

add to it, you are not scum hunting.

what is your case on someone? Who is scum and why?

I'm town hunting

also it is a bit of another lie to say I am tunneling on you. I mean how do you know if you havent read ALL of my posts...like 294.
so did you read 294 or not?

So when I say it it's a lie, but when Towwl says it, it doesn't warrent any comment?

[Elements]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Elements]

Also the Tao Train looks appealing but this one is also kind of concerned with the amount of people immediately jumping on it as well.

There have been a disappointing number of wagons so far

[Elements]

Also the Tao Train looks appealing but this one is also kind of concerned with the amount of people immediately jumping on it as well.

Also, if you look back it's taken a while to get going so I don't think people have been imidiately jumping in it

[Elements]

Also since we're gonna be getting near the point soon, could we announce intents to hammer before we do so the players have a chance to claim? Or is that not something people are a fan of?

That’s standard procedure

Unless you're Not_Mafia

[Elements]

I think Hu Tao is playing scummy but the way this wagon has gone from 0-4 votes in a page just stinks to me, alongside one of my scumreads openly endorsing it. Gonna stick with my gut read that Bristar was scum.

What, if anything, do you think has changed since I was pushing for a Hu Tao wagon?

[Elements]

So why does that stink to you?

[Elements]

Hu Tao was wrongly voted out

Just to be clear, Hu Tao wasn't voted out in that game, they survived to the end.

Oop I was wrong my b, what exactly happened with Hu Tao's slot in that game again? Clearly I need a refresher lol

Mafia got voted out almost every day
Didn't look like a close game

[Elements]

Does this change your view on the wagon at all?

[Elements]

VOTE: HPE

[Elements]

VOTE: HPE

if it wasnt for this vote i would have switched wagons

VOTE: DGB

[Elements]

VOTE: HPE

if it wasnt for this vote i would have switched wagons

VOTE: DGB

This one is... mystified.

I do my best

[Elements]

VOTE: hpe

[Elements]

I thought it was e-2
P-edit: beat me to it

[Elements]

Except it wasn't out of nowhere

[Elements]

This is some +town speculaiton form towwl

[Elements]

This is some +town speculaiton form towwl

Unfortunately it's mostly bunk because I still think HT is more likely to flip green ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

makes you more town though. so serves a point

[Elements]

(Ask El about my final 3's omg I am a mess in those. I'm gotten better but it's still rough lmao)

Was it 7:0 in final 3s at one point for you?

[Elements]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Elements]

She thinks I'm really cool *hair flick*

[Elements]

Intent to hammer whatever gets to e1

[Elements]

Blood for the blood god

[Elements]

Intent to hammer whatever gets to e1

This seems fairly antitown even with just like 10 hours left

Why? I'm just making E2 into E1

[Elements]

I agree that Elements isn't looking good.

I've got an eye appointment tomorrow don't worry

[Elements]

Yea thinking about it, I see all 3 as scummy.

The moment I offered the Erinys wagon up again, both Emperor and Hu Tao both jumped at the chance. Yes their life is on the life but that rubs me the wrong way.

Alongside Goofball clarififying that fake claims are a lot more common here, I'm gonna go back to Emperor.

Sorry for being indecisive I'm all over the place right now lmao.

UNVOTE: Erinys
VOTE: Emperor

VOTE: erinys

[Elements]

i get that its vague so you can cchange your claim later but scum would want to be more precise = more honest = more towny

If Hu Tao is scum, it's a great strategy to smoke out town investigative roles of every kind for counterclaiming.

Part of me wants a fullclaim from HT but it's not sure how useful that really would be for town.

I misread this.

I thought she said, part of me wants to fullclaim, but dont know how helpful ...blah blah blah.

she has indeed NOT softclaimed.

It

[Elements]

I want to put Erinys on E-1 then, however I obvs wanna give space just in case. (cause El's said they will hammer anyone on E-1)

You'd unvoted by the time I got to preview

[Elements]

I agree

[Elements]

I thinks it's 2?

[Elements]

well I think everyone here is town

I think scum would be sort of scared to immerse themselves in that quickfire environment

I love a quickfire environment as any alignment

[Elements]

I can't hammer Hu Tao, I'm already on the wagon

[Elements]

Don't think so

[Elements]

also threatening to e-1 hu tao, i don't think the elements wagon is happening and i'm paranoid about time. i'd ask hu tao to claim but idk if they're even here lmao (if you are here plz full claim tho you're about to get bonked)

I was just clarifying for Daisy

[Elements]

hey elements would u tell me if ur scum

Didn't you already n0 cop check me?

[Elements]

I claim deathproof cop with a n0 guilty on
Hu Tao
OopsieDaisy
and curiouskarmadog

these were my n0 cop checks
no where does it say ur innocent elements

I'll claim in our super secret chat then

[Elements]

of course Elements has also ignored my request to provide a game where they lied about there reads, just to get a game started....but maybe Im just being too aggressive.

I'm not going to meta myself
You were the one that brought metaing me it up in the first place
Daisy has said it's something I would do
If you want my past games look at them yourself, they're easily accessible on my wiki page

[Elements]

This was a game
Thanks for running tsq