Mini Normal 2303 [Postgame!!!!]

[Black]

When she flips scum look at Flower and Fire

[Black]

I can't believe you all are cool with scum Ausuka just drifting right by you

It's less anything to do with Ausuka specifically and more that town!Cook makes negative sense and I'm not cool with people letting scum!Cook drift by.

Outside of the Ausuka/Cook interactions what makes you think Cook is town?

-A

Really it's just thinking that Ausuka/Cook is more likely s/t. But I think it could be s/s if we assume a good amount of theatre took place between the two. Some of the theatre seemed pointless and genuine which led me to think it's just scum!Ausuka pushing a townie. There was some Cook AtE that felt real but I've pretty much moved on from that now

Did I miss why you think Cook is so scummy? What makes the Cook lim better than an Ausuka one?

[Black]

Between a bulletproof rolecop, a half useless neapolitan and a backup watcher this one guesses the backup can go.

There's no VT claims so can't vote there, should probably have pushed T3 through.

VOTE: Ausuka

Black you say how can we let Ausuka slide but Invis, Italiano, fire and something smart have all sort of gotten a pass here. Even T3, everyone happy with them lurking.

Invis and fire have felt mostly townie to me, if I ignore the extremely suspicious devil on my shoulder whispering to me that fire makes complete sense as an Ausuka partner. Italiano can be limmed today. I tried pushing SS but no one was interested so he gets to lurk to D2

Anyone considering voting outside of Cook/Ausuka/Italiano should figure out which of these 3 claimed roles we yeet today. We're not running a 4th person up to claim

[Black]

Did I miss why you think Cook is so scummy? What makes the Cook lim better than an Ausuka one?

It's a combination of the role being scummy (Like compare 1-shot BP Rolecop to Odd Night Neopolitan) and the attempt to justify the claim after the fact wrt the Mason reaction and the "Scum on my wagon know something" feeling like something that was thought of after the fact instead of being genuine in 1378 and 1384

-A

This makes sense. Well not really the mech part. I don't really know balancing or what roles are meant to be scum/town. But it was weird for Cook to say that

I'm not opposed to a Cook lim, my issue is that I'm going to think Ausuka is scum no matter the result

To clarify I haven't read pretty much anything before 1000 outside of people quoting/directing me to posts so I'm pretty sure I missed most of the Ausuka/Cook interactions you're talking about

-A

We have a bit of time until the deadline if you feel like reading. I think there is at least one scum in the two and if you can somehow convince me it's not Ausuka I would be impressed

[Black]

What do we think of the relative power level of the three roles claimed? Everything is conditional on something it seems.

My insight on mech talk would be absolutely worthless

[Black]

What do we think of the relative power level of the three roles claimed? Everything is conditional on something it seems.

Balance-wise Italiano locktown, Cook lockscum, Ausuka the claim is passable

I think there is at least one scum in the two and if you can somehow convince me it's not Ausuka I would be impressed

Ausuka can be scum but I don't see a world where Cook is town and if Cook's trueclaiming that implies a vig that could be shooting with good info instead of wasting time doing nothing when Cook's BP after an Ausuka flip

-A

I think I'm ok just trusting you here and going with Cook. I still think her and Ausuka could be s/s. I wanna say though that I think Ausuka's role makes sense as a scum role depending on the setup. I could be wrong but I think making it so the scum team gets an investigative role like that after the town version dies is pretty funny design. Depending on the other roles I feel like it could make sense balance-wise turning a goon into a PR

[Black]

I wanna say though that I think Ausuka's role makes sense as a scum role depending on the setup. I could be wrong but I think making it so the scum team gets an investigative role like that after the town version dies is pretty funny design. Depending on the other roles I feel like it could make sense balance-wise turning a goon into a PR

If Ausuka's scum she's fakeclaiming here. Even a straight up Watcher is pretty unusual for scum, a Mafia Backup Watcher that procs off a Town Watcher makes negative sense (Like yeah it's possible to make it a workable setup but I'd give that Four Question Marks out of Normal on the weirdness scale)

-A

Ok. So why do you think Italiano is locktown?

[Black]

Please give it some time Black it's very important to get some more input here. If Cook flips town we lose our only way to verify roles. With three claims day 1 we really are going to need that this game, especially with modifiers.

What kind of input are you looking for?

[Black]

VOTE: t3

literally ANYTHING other than me

please

please

i'm on board for a happy lim

VOTE: italianovd

Funny how you say "anyone but me" but you still won't vote for Ausuka

Maybe this is s/s after all

[Black]

@others, is it possible that Italiano AND Cook are town? I don't recall anyone talking about them without supposing that it was a mutually exclusive sort of situation

Yes. But in this world Ausuka is scum. So if you believe Cook/IVD are town then hop on the wagon

[Black]

If anyone thinks Cook and IVD are both town then your only other option is to join us on the Ausuka wagon

[Black]

I am willing to sheep you, maybe? I'm going to read your post on Ausuka again.

You don't really have a choice if you think the other 2 are scum. We're not bringing a 4th option into this and risking yet another claim

[Black]

Read it

again

? You already read it and had nothing to say? That's a little weird

[Black]

I am willing to sheep you, maybe? I'm going to read your post on Ausuka again.

You don't really have a choice if you think the other 2 are scum. We're not bringing a 4th option into this and risking yet another claim

What did you mean by this exactly? I'm struggling to parse. If I'm more confident that Cook is scum why wouldn't I vote?

I misunderstood actually. I thought that you thought Cook and IVD were town, my b

[Black]

i am also kinda confused about why black says she is willing to trust flower here

flower feels like they're twisting mech for agenda purposes to me

idk how limming cook here makes the most sense ever mechanically, even if you scumread her

I've played with flower a lot and they're mech opinions are usually on point. I prefer an Ausuka lim over IVD or Cook but at the time it felt like the Ausuka wagon wasn't going to get enough support. If I have to choose between Cook and IVD then I'm willing to trust Flower when they say Cook is mechanically more likely to be scum

[Black]

I would advise taking another look at black D2, particularly with her wall, and ask yourselves what the motives are - Like does she genuinely believe all this? She goes from thinking I might be town to suddenly being back in the tunnel at full speed with no apparent explanation? Is she really confident enough to say things like "when ausuka flips scum?"

Shrug. I'll admit I may be a little tunneled but I do believe what I'm saying. There's nothing weird about thinking you might be town when you're doing stuff that makes you look town. I'm choosing to believe my gut here

[Black]

the question was more, why are you not considering that flower could be scum who is using mech discussion to push advantageous things?

I am

[Black]

I thought about that because I feel like Cook is the type of role that scum really want limmed. If she's town and telling the truth then they have to lim her. Flower is pushing awfully hard for the lim

[Black]

Well I was considering it but I don't think we should flashwagon Flower or Hu Tao, as much as I would be down. It's close to the deadline and we already have 3 claims

I wasn't all that particularly suspicious of HPE so I'm not sure what you were expecting from me here

[Black]

I thought about that because I feel like Cook is the type of role that scum really want limmed. If she's town and telling the truth then they have to lim her. Flower is pushing awfully hard for the lim

like if you genuinely had this thought prior to just now

then how does it follow that flower is good at mech

if scum really want to elim cook if she's town. and you were thinking about that. then doesn't that mean, without taking a read of cook into account, the lim is bad for town? and so it would be bad mechanically? and so the option that flower is pushing for may not actually be ideal?

I thought about the Cook lim not being ideal, that's part of the reason I've been pushing Ausuka. That doesn't mean I don't still think Cook is lying scum. Me willing to trust Flower is just a result of them being very confident here from a mech POV plus me being really bad at mech

The thought crossed my mind that Flower could be scum pushing a town Cook but I didn't mention it because I'm not going to push Flower rn. I'd much rather push Ausuka

[Black]

Well I was considering it but I don't think we should flashwagon Flower or Hu Tao, as much as I would be down. It's close to the deadline and we already have 3 claims

I wasn't all that particularly suspicious of HPE so I'm not sure what you were expecting from me here

thats a false dichotomy, the alternative isn't flashwagon flower or hu tao

im questioning why you were willing to allow yourself to be convinced by flower so easily, and why none of the doubt that you're now saying that you had was evident in your posts you made at the time

the visible result of not trusting flower wouldn't be wagoning them, it would be not being so willing to trust them and be okay with limming cook

When it comes to mech reasoning I'm usually willing to fold over and just sheep someone that knows what they're talking about. I think it's visible that I didn't fully trust him since I never swapped to Cook and I continued to push for an Ausuka lim

[Black]

thats actually just such a weird post

"as much as i would be down"???

since when

I think they are posturing around this deadline in a way that would be pretty scummy if Cook is town

[Black]

Fire's focus on something as insignificant as me trusting Flower or not feels like a fabricated distraction from the Ausuka wagon. The two of them showed up to casually nudge the IVD wagon as soon as the Ausuka wagon gained speed

Stay the course, folks. Don't be distracted

[Black]

There's 5 people that should probably pick a side here

[Black]

I would declare intent on Ausuka but I will not be here to hammer tomorrow

This is your grand entrance near deadline after all these claims.

VOTE: ItalianVD

If Ausuka is scum at least she's trying.

Ugh. Fine

VOTE: ItalianVD

That's e-1 I think

@Flower, Cook is not happening today

[Black]

This kind of confidence from you kinda reminds me of Fire & Ice...

[Black]

I hope you didn't replace into a scum slot Flower. I much prefer when we're on the same team

[Black]

T3 / Hu Tao should be provisional D2 targets

Look at black with cold hard eyes and don't assume her posts are good because she posts a lot of words

You know what I think of italiano and cook, they could both be town but is probably more likely there's a scum there. Probably not both tho

Sayonara

Who would you flash wagon rn if you had the choice

[Black]

Let's try it. I'm suddenly not liking any of these options that much

VOTE: Hu Tao

Worst case scenario we get closer to the deadline and have to move to prevent a no lim. Cell service is back to normal so I'll be here up until the deadline

[Black]

People are going to ask my thoughts on Ausuka here. I still think she could be scum but I tried to look at her posts in a different light, and if I force myself to leave my tunnel I think there's a world where this defeatism is coming from town!Ausuka

[Black]

What's the Hu Tao case?

-A

Extremely lurky. Some of the posturing around the deadline feels sideliney and opportunistic. Honestly there's not much of a case here at all but I have a sinking feeling that the three claims might be town

I know I said we shouldn't run someone up to a 4th claim but at this point I'd be down to just put my hands over my ears and yeet Hu Tao regardless

[Black]

VOTE: Hu Tao

You know if we're flashwagonning we can still lim Cook

-A

Don't you agree that if Cook is town then scum really want her limmed today? You'll probably answer with "no way Cook is town" or something but if you consider for a split second that she is, wouldn't her lim be really bad?

[Black]

We’re voting Hu Tao? How’d this happen?

Oh I see.

Thoughts?

[Black]

This is close

I'm ok limming Hu or Ausuka atm so I will keep an eye on this

[Black]

Why are you okay with running someone else up in the first place Black? I thought we agreed it would be within the claims.

Yeah, the Hu wagon came about because I was feeling wary of players that are just watching this deadline drama from the sidelines, and I also got an awful gut feeling that Ausuka might be town. I think it makes sense for at least one or even two scum to be watching this unfold from the background, while the third is actively in the mix pushing stuff. I don't like the way Hu has approached this

[Black]

jsyk flower using setups to guess prs is not bad

You continue to be underwhelming. Should people be voting Flower/Happy tomorrow?

Why do you keep talking like all of these lim candidates will flip town?

[Black]

jsyk flower using setups to guess prs is not bad

You continue to be underwhelming. Should people be voting Flower/Happy tomorrow?

Why do you keep talking like all of these lim candidates will flip town?

?

Did iamveryhappy or kitykamfanclub type this?

You think Asri thinks happy and flower are town? In that post?

People are so weird.

Back later.

No, I think you misunderstood. You're talking like all of the current lim candidates (Hu, Ausuka, Cook, IVD) are town and you're already pre-flipping people tomorrow based on this world view

[Black]

Ital isn't a canditate. The team isn't Hu/Ausuka/Cook. So. If you pay attention you would never have made this post and never typed out Ausuka's name

You can cut the passive aggressive bullshit. If YoU pAy AtTeNt-- miss me with that

[Black]

There will be a lim today. There are too many people here for a no-lim to happen

[Black]

VOTE: Ausuka

I guess we are doing this

[Black]

40 minutes till deadline? damn I picked a bad time to try to read up

Hu Tao or Ausuka?

[Black]

I think that's e-1 for Hu?

Intent to hammer

[Black]

But I've been worried about no elim.

Not happening but nice snipe

[Black]

But I've been worried about no elim.

Not happening but nice snipe

Sorry what does this even mean

You sniped the pagetop from the mod lol

[Black]

I'm like that.

You're Him

[Black]

okay screw it

VOTE: ausuka

sparks fly someone dies

someone hammer if this isn’t

What the fuck

I was literally about to hammer Hu

Why did you just switch?

[Black]

You understand how you appearing at this time will be suspicious if Ausaka flips scum in the future?

No. I appeared before anyone started threatening to hammer Ausuka, and despite those threats I have not hammered Hu Tao.

Vote Hu so I get the hammer

[Black]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Black]

Ausuka was town

I'm going to have to re-evaluate things

[Black]

So Ausuka probably died because of her claim. Asri was an interesting choice for a kill and I'm guessing this one came from a vig of some sort?

[Black]

alright, i listened to everyone’s feedback and all and decided to rolecop black. she’s tracker

I don't know if revealing my role right away was the best play but I could be wrong. Maybe I'm just not a fan of being outed like this

We still kill Cook here since she's scum Rolecop, Black since you're outed can you fullclaim?

I think I'd like to keep my result secret for now. I'll reveal it before the day ends just in case I'm the N2 target

[Black]

I think there's information to gain by keeping my result to myself atm

[Black]

If you have a no visit or you tracked someone to Ausuka please post, otherwise understandable

Why would you want me to claim if I got a no visit?

[Black]

If you have a no visit or you tracked someone to Ausuka please post, otherwise understandable

Why would you want me to claim if I got a no visit?

Scum cant multitask so Cook didn't do the kill, a no visit strongly implies the person you checked is town since at a minimum 2/3 scum should have visited n1. Like this we don't waste time wagoning town

-Nameless

I got a no visit, but I don't see why that person couldn't just be a goon

[Black]

Scum want me to claim who didn't visit anyone so they can narrow down PRs...

[Black]

Hmm. Ok. Let me think on this. I'm not going to reveal right now so just give it some time

[Black]

a funni I think sheep would do is to make the backup watcher a named townie

I don't think that's likely.

Who do you think is scum?

[Black]

If Cook is town, Flower and IVD are scum

If Cook is scum, I think IVD is town and Flower is probably town too

[Black]

We're not limming anyone right now, so keep waiting

[Black]

If Cook is town, Flower and IVD are scum

If Cook is scum, I think IVD is town and Flower is probably town too

There's no world where Cook's town here, go re-read Ausukas mechposting where she says Cook's scum trueclaiming if there's a vig in the game

-Nameless

That being said cook might still be scum here so like come to your own conclusions etc. I would be significantly more skeptical of her if two people die tonight as I have said.

I'm willing to believe you, but last time I said that fire called me scum -_-

[Black]

I want to hear from fire today

Also do we think a massclaim hurts town or helps town here?

[Black]

Hmm. Ok. Let me think on this. I'm not going to reveal right now so just give it some time

Black if you tracked S_S staying home can you come out with this information now before I get into a tunnel here?

-Nameless

Fire stayed home

[Black]

Why arent more people bothered with Cook claiming 1-Shot BP Rolecop with Ausuka pointing out that if there's a vig then Cook's probably trueclaiming scum and then after the vig shoots and Ausuka flips town her claim suddenly changes to one that isn't a blatant scumclaim

Because Ausuka could have been wrong, and you could have killed her to set up the agenda you're pushing rn

[Black]

I don't really know what to think rn

I'm leaning towards yeeting IVD. The last time Flower was this adamant about their agenda they were scum. Not the most definitive tell but it's making it hard for me to trust them

[Black]

Do you think that's realistically the case here? Like even in a scum!Flower game we'd be objectively correct that Cook's mechanically scum here and I'm more surprised that you're more worried that Cook is town instead of the possibility that I'm scum hard bussing Cook

I don't know how to look at the game from a mech standpoint and base decisions on that view. And I don't really think it makes sense for you to hard bus Cook the way you have. It could be a good play but I don't think it's anywhere close to optimal in a scum!Cook/scum!Flower world

[Black]

lol

Maybe he had an aneurysm reading all the mech posts

[Black]

I kinda just wanna sheep fire today tbh

[Black]

What's the rush?

Happy did you finally roll scum on this forum?

[Black]

no I'm pointing out the obvious

I think you might be scum. Your posting this game is a lot less troll-y and I can see that type of tone shift being a result of you getting a red PM

[Black]

there's this thing known as trying?

I have a feeling you're the type of player to try harder when scum

[Black]

I'm not really interested in your self meta tbh

[Black]

sorry all busy weekend. I'll post more thoughts tomorrow

[Black]

@Black: did you look at 2037? Did I miss a response from you?

I read it, I'm just really not sure what to believe atm. The only person I feel like I can trust is fire

[Black]

Hi, I'm here. I don't have much to say besides that more people trust in the mechanics of Cook being scum than the number of scum slots, so I'm just going to leave my vote here until there's new information.

Question for the people who aren't voting for proposing an alternative: What *is* the alternative?
@T3
@Invis
@fireisred
@black

I don't like these two posts tbh. I'm sorta leaning on the side of Cook being town and in that world scum really want to lim her today. Katy is doing this whole lurky thing while still pushing an agenda and it pings me

[Black]

ok it is p wild that we went from this at 48 hours left, and cook was at e-1 for a bit right before this, to it being between italiano and ausuka, to it being between ausuka and hu tao, to the lim being on hu tao

There was a lot of flailing around due to the approaching deadline and some changes of heart there towards the end but I think it might be worth looking into

[Black]

Well you definitely looked into it. Ireally like the VCA post by fire

[Black]

If Cook's somehow still alive come MeLo/ELo just deadsheep Ausuka and I and lim her already, this is just painful

Cook has been the leading wagon and at e-2 for awhile now. I'm not sure why you're talking like the lim won't go through

[Black]

Honestly with so many mech people saying we should lim Cook (even Ausuka who we know is town)...I'm ok going there today. I have some natural distrust of people pushing her but I guess we can sort that out after the flip

Invisibility has been less active on the site in general lately but I can see her being scum this game

[Black]

If Cook flips town then I have a strong feeling that at least two scum are on her wagon atm

[Black]

VOTE: Cook

E-1

[Black]

no person votkng you is on the town side except for black
interesting

What do you think this means?

[Black]

fireisredsir is letting himself be complacent as far as having thoughts, but also got nv confirmed by Black? so i dunno

I don't think fire is 100% confirmed btw. He could still be a goon

[Black]

If you were paying attention you'd know why he's the towniest person here

?

[Black]

no person votkng you is on the town side except for black
interesting

What do you think this means?

I might look into some ideas of voting you.

Seems like you're setting me up to look like a Cook partner. Ironically that makes me think you could be a Cook partner if she flips scum

[Black]

is black gambitting with the vig's ability to shoot
I'm p sure it's three shot, nothing will change my opinion
this might've been made up, might've covered the scum that did the kill
I just kinda don't like the tracker claim

First of all what makes you think the vig is 3 shot?

And second I didn't claim. Cook outed me

[Black]

alright, i listened to everyone’s feedback and all and decided to rolecop black. she’s tracker

I don't know if revealing my role right away was the best play but I could be wrong. Maybe I'm just not a fan of being outed like this

I don't like the tone of this post
There is literally no frustration at getting outed by a scummy rolecop
seems sus

I don't think it's suspicious to not be frustrated here. I didn't like it but there was nothing I could do about it, shrug

[Black]

then express you don't like it
it seems to me that you are just not knowing whether being spewed was good or not
I.can tell you it's not good

I did express I didn't like it

[Black]

GG!