Mini 749 - Antarctic Mafia [Game Over]

[Amished]

/confirm (that I'm REALLY REALLY REALLY COLD!)

[Amished]

vote: Nuwen

for being drunk within 24 hours before a vote! You need to be clearheaded for these types of things!

VOTE COUNT

Mizz.Mafia - 1 (ZEEnon)
ZEEnon - 2 (Nuwen, Mizz.Mafia)
Nuwen - 1 (Amished)

Not Voting - DraketheFake, Fishythefish, JereIC, Light-kun, pacman281292, na85, Debonair Danny DiPiertro, freeko

12 alive, 7 to lynch.

Expect a vote count at the top of each page.

-Mod

[Amished]

Yeah, until you drown/lynch a penguin! Then I'm pretty sure you hurt a penguin, and you shouldn't, cause they're cool (literally and figuratively)

[Amished]

I'm just worried that there won't be enough fish for everyone!

[Amished]

Fishy raises some serious points here people! I think the proper response is to let Fishy find a mate, let them reproduce (making them be even happier) *then* eat all the fish, so we're all full. I'd definitely vote for this course of action! Even if it's mechanical, I have a sneaking suspicion we're lacking in our iron intake

[Amished]

Personally, I think that Nuwen putting me in the middle of that.... graph thingy type thing-y... is an attempt to buddy! They intentionally made it blurry so that it was harder to see the facts!!!!!! Covering up the truth now, are we? EH?????

I've been travelin' on this road to long

ZEEnon - 3 (Nuwen, Mizz.Mafia, DraketheFake)
Nuwen - 2 (Amished, freeko)
Fishythefish - 2 (JereIC, pacman281292)
JereIC - 1 (Light-kun)
DraketheFake - 3 (na85, ZEEnon, Debonair Danny DiPiertro)
na85 - 1 (Fishythefish)

12 alive, 7 to lynch.

-Mod

[Amished]

I also disagree with DDD's analysis of the rest of the towns play. Criticizing us for bad play in the RVS when I found it to be very clearly extremely hilarious. As long as we don't lynch somebody in the RVS, most play there (here, though we're moving .. on UP! To the East side! I've finally got... sorry, it's a catchy tune ) can't be critiqued as bad.

As others have pointed out as well, to my eyes, putting a "pressure vote" while already seeing that they were under enough pressure is unnecessary, and while not out of bounds (what is?), it doesn't seem like sound and/or townie play.

About the whole "slip" thing, I'm leaning more towards DtF's side. Initially I saw the same "slip" that he commented on, as I also assumed right off the bat that the good guys were penguins, and the scum were... something else that could be confused as penguins? Thinking it over, I considered that scum could just be different types of penguins, so I dismissed both points of view as I could logically see both ways of thinking at a time.

[Amished]

I found DtF's post (if we're talking about the same one) still within the bounds of the random stage as this game has had an extended one that I can see, though 12 people in game is the most I've ever been in so the RVS could really be this long typically and I wouldn't really know. Also, as my mommy always told me, if you didn't start it don't finish it. You effectively rose to his joke/bait (bait, fish.. get it? haha..... =\ Ok, maybe that was terrible..) and pretty obviously made Mizz confused, and probably the rest of us (if they're like me) unsure of where, if at all, we could and should jump in to help find the scum at hand. Please keep this in mind with future games if you could

Furthermore, since I believe we're out of the random stage, I shall

unvote

.

[Amished]

If anything, I would contest that no matter the situation a dayvig (if available) would be detrimental. Leaving her alive would make it quite easy to read such a new player, and/or mislead them long enough to get a lynch. However, that can easily backfire with people looking out for it, and then we can find scum yet another way by seeing who's targeting who with their arguments. I'd contest that it'd not be a good time (or at least a good target) for a day-vig as I highly doubt she's scum.

DDD: I think it's reasonable to be unhappy with somebody 2 minutes into the game, if they're either not with the spirit of the game, completely unreadable, or a myriad of other valid reasons. Posting style or how they argue definitely would fall under that for me, so trying to defer suspicion onto somebody else for how they feel about your posting style, how you act, or otherwise reasonably sufficient reasons to be rather scummish.

[Amished]

Freeko, it appeared to be a running joke back and forth. Obviously none of the reasons were/are serious, so I think what DtF is getting to, and what I'm also wondering is why are you taking it so seriously? The jokes didn't even involve you personally, and from where I stand, they both handled it rather well in their own style. Are you just trying to build a spurious case against DDD, or what is your motivation here?

DDD: Personally I'm not a fan of listing other people's options like that (with regards to you talking about freeko pushing a case on you. There are always more options than anyone lists, so just giving something that's not complete, and obviously biased to your point of view is neither helpful nor townie, in my eyes. Wait and let them hang themselves with their response if it's that bad natured, and make your case then. This way we're arguing over other points too, without his input, while also giving him ideas as to how to answer/not answer.

[Amished]

As to JereIC, the style and tempo of the game typically affect my play a lot. With a lot of back and forth like we have here, from multiple people, I play a bit slower and try to look at all people involved, to see if there's something different about a certain way that they post. Up to now, with this many people, there's not a whole lot that I can really make a decent case for, and other people are asking similar questions to what I'd ask, and I think it's redundant to ask them again, trying to look like I'm building cases.

Also, it takes me a bit of time to get used to styles, as I tend to look for scum partly with feel, so I know who to really start putting a case together for. This can lead to slow day 1's for sure, but later on hopefully I can be more helpful looking for teh baddeez.

[Amished]

DDD: Fair enough, seeing how you present and go through a case (giving people a chance to see your logic, and if there are any missteps or points we've missed) helps out greatly. Regarding your #2, the entirety of your play also included several .."wacky" posts as well, so I could definitely see how people that might have a hard time looking at things from an inside perspective or another angle could have a problem with it. Also, I meant case as building a case for the person being either town or scum. It tends to work both ways for me.

Freeko: I was actually curious to see how far they'd go with their joking as it typically has a relaxed attitude, giving the rest of us either some insight as to how they truly act, or at least a baseline for something that they're creating, and have that as a counter-point (potentially) to how they act later in the game. The rest of us could either comment on that, or have a side conversation (since there's ten of us not including those two, it'd be pretty easy) both of which could have furthered the game, and judging by how they're acting now and what I had guessed earlier, they probably would've joined in the rest of us and been serious about it. Personally, the ... interesting .... acronym that DDD posted of DtF's name gave me some insight, not sure if it'll help his case or hurt it down the road.

Na85: Besides the fact that you bring up a metaphor that might or might not be wholly accurate, have you regularly lost to the female that you play poker with? If you play enough poker, it generally becomes easy to read people like that, and with a game based on concealment, being able to read somebody is a good thing. Also, judging by the join date for Mizz., (9 days ago from today) I think it's fair to cut her a little slack, while also helping her to "learn to fish" as the proverb goes. While this place always seems to be ripe with new incomers, it's also quite nice to be able to keep people that come here, and not just scare them away.

Mizz: Like has been said above, you're generally in two-three groups, depending on the setup of the game. An informed Minority (scum), an uninformed majority (town) or perhaps a semi-informed minority (miller or the like). Generally no matter which group you're part of, you want to play similarly. Go through each post, see if there's something suspicious that that person has said, or if something they said doesn't line up with something they've said before, and see if you can find "scum". As townie, you're actually going to be looking for the scum, while as scum you generally want to try to build a fake but strong looking case on town to get them mislynched. As it appears that many of us are much more familiar with this game than you are, mistakes can and will be pointed out and won't be very forgiving.

If you're up for it, either now or after this game ends, I'd suggest heading back into the Queue and signing up for a newbie game, or try to replace in to one, as they're more helpful to people with questions, as many people aren't familiar with mafia there. This will allow you to learn together and find your own style, as well as hopefully some good times that you can associate with this site.

[Amished]

/me sits stunned at pacman's request. Are you really asking them to not post everything that's on their mind just cause you don't feel like you can read for more than ~ 20 minutes? Even back when pacman was born there were books and stuff that people would read hours at a time, so not learning from when you (or your avatar) were a kid isn't an excuse.

Na85: Yea, that would've been more helpful. Still, with the join date it's fairly safe to assume that she's rather new to the game. Though it's duly noted that assuming about people's skill levels is quite dangerous. So Mizz, here's hoping you catch on quickly for this bunch, or at least not hold back quite so much if you know more than you let on.

[Amished]

I'm definitely with everybody else concerning DDD. If you're town, forming links to anybody (other than perhaps a setup that includes miller, though that's not specifically town) is a bad idea. First off, you wouldn't know anybody else's alignment, so you could very well be buddying with either town or scum, and there's no way for you to know. However, if you're scum, you'd know the alignment of those you're forming connections with, and talking about it leads to WIFOM. The way I see it, neither course of action is especially helpful nor town friendly. Regarding DDD's #1 (supply info):

Like I said above, you could be arguing heavily against fellow town and you wouldn't know it at this point, so any "information" that could be gleaned from how you act towards him is worthless. As a counter point, if he turns out town (cleared or whatever else you brought up) would that instantly make you scum? It appears you're trying to make definite points where there aren't any to be made.

I was also curious at your percentages, L-k, and now with your response to Fish, I assume now that I assumed something I shouldn't have. Also, just as a personal note, I think you're one of the most disrespectful people I've had the agony of reading content from. The fact that you're still insulting him by calling him "cow" instead of even Na (which is shorter, and also doesn't have numbers to assault your poor typing fingers or sensibilities) indicates to me that you have a definite problem with him, and hope to continue your feud by ostensibly ignoring and insulting him anyway.

[Amished]

I think it's pretty darn hard to do some scum hunting while you're being attacked for every post you make. I'm not completely buying all of his explanations though, regarding how he's acting this game. Trying to meta yourself, and passing off to difference of playstyle isn't exactly something that inspires my confidence...

Pacman: So far (wrt my other two games) I've typically made very long posts detailing what I think of one person, or a couple, or answering other peoples questions. Because I or others might like to be clear about what they're thinking, and just have it all in one place doesn't relegate it to an annoying realm, nor is it a bunch of quotes.

Also, with your position on Mizz.Mafia's role, what do you really think we'll be able to gather from somebody who didn't know how to play, basically. She spent a good chunk of her time trying to figure out how to use the forums, let alone try to play the game in any meaningful way. Yet you still don't place forth your own opinions, and add nothing to the discussion other than complaining about long posts. Your first four posts are in RVS and talking about that (RVS), next two are complaining about walls o' text, and then your last one says that you should analyze everybody, when I haven't seen you analyze a single action or contribute to the discussion so we could analyze you.

vote: pacman281292

[Amished]

I'm here, I'm really sorry I haven't posted as much as I normally do nor would like to. I've been very LA this last week and with First Responder training this weekend, probably Saturday night I'll address everything that's happened and answer any questions or anything.

[Amished]

Alright, starting from ~ 213 where I last posted. (I've tried kinda keeping up reading the thread at least even though I didn't have much time to post at all. Just letting you know that I kinda see things coming up as I comment on them)

I also want to preface this that I was 35/65 or so for DDD being scum/townie at that point, and lately I think he's been even more townie, probably down to 10-20% or so. I'm saying this first because it appears that probably a good 75% of content since then is about him, his case or his attackers, so this should help give you my perspective.

I'm against LK's analysis of 214. No matter your alignment (unless jester) you want to try to not get hung. Not just scum don't want to be suspicious. Town also want to go about scumhunting in peace, and I don't see how not wanting to be suspicious automatically makes you scum. Also, like DDD assessed of me, and like I've said before, if you're attacked, you defend yourself to the best of your abilities. If you have a piss poor defense, or a weak defense, then we're weeding out weaker town players or quite possibly scum. However if you attack while you're also being attacked (freeko comes to mind) you look like a one tracked side-show attraction and you start failing to help the town no matter if you're right or wrong about the person.

Heh at the irony of freeko's quote in 218

This sideshow needs to be put to an end. You just dont get it. This isnt about DDD, its about the town finding scum.

.... Hmmm. Pretty sure you don't even follow what you're saying yourself either. Later he (freeko) says that DDD doesn't know that he wins with the town, but he knows his alignment. You are full of crap, aren't you?

Welcome Howard!

L-k. Not sure how to take you. You haven't explained your %'s at all to Fishy who specifically asked for your thoughts behind them, or to my implied same question. You also asked about a vote on somebody that wasn't even directed towards the person you thought, and then voted for freeko for 1 lie after attacking DDD with your 3 points shortly before. It looks to me like you're just throwing up a lot of smoke to have you appear that you're in the thick of things.

Still don't like any of freeko's responses. Just seem to be immature and rather insulting. "numbnuts" in 233 is what I'm looking at now.. Also you're just trying to look at everything he does (whether it's genuinely scummy or not) and make it scummy. If he does anything, it'd be under your floundering charge.

DtF: Like above, if you're being attacked by one player over and over and over, and not getting anywhere, I feel anybody (town or scum) would address that person to try to make them see reason. At least I would in that situation, so it seems logical for somebody else to do it.

/is pained by the majority of freeko's posts (edit from reading more: /me wants to hit him over the head with a clue x 4... DDD's vote is not omgus, nor floundering, nor "blah blah blah" or whatever else. If you think his argument is that bad, point to something you've done that directly refutes his claims. Hell, it doesn't even have to be all of his case, just give us something. You're "logic and reasoning" are saying everything he says is a lie" without having proof for damn near any of it.)

(sorry to Roark for not being around more and to na85 about the car accident, hope everybody is ok)

Hmm, this looks to be the majority of what I've missed, if there's anything anybody wants me to comment on or whatever, lemme know.

--- crossposted with freeko/Nuwen ---
Appeals to emotion *and* blatant insults to everyone voting for him (presumably) and those not quite there for voting him. Personally, I think I'd rather not have you join at all, since we're going to replace Pacman if he doesn't get his act together, so that doesn't help the town either.

[Amished]

Like everyone said, freeko's behavior is completely out of line, and getting a replacement would both put them in a stupid spot to be in as well. I would be comfortable with lynching him at the moment.

@L-k: I was also wondering what caused my percentage to be rather high comparatively high.

[Amished]

Thank you Jere for getting rid of him. Wow.

[Amished]

*cry* Bah. Good luck everyone.