Mini 749 - Antarctic Mafia [Game Over]

[DraketheFake]

Confirmed.

[DraketheFake]

Vote: na85

Stupid dancing cow.

Vote: Fishythefish

because he just seems fishy.

Yeah but if he is in fact a fish he's our main food source, which means it probably behooves us to keep him around.

(I've run rings around you logically.)

[DraketheFake]

WOAH, my favourite animal is a cow !

Funny... my favorite animal is a penguin. Didn't think it'd be THIS easy...

Unvote, Vote: ZEEnon

.

[DraketheFake]

Obviously, the recent attacks on me have been serious and grave, and deserve a full and thorough response. There are a few points I would like to make absolutely clear.
1. As Amished suggests, there isn't nearly enough of me to go round. Penguins eat fish whole, and there is no way 11 penguins can possibly share 1 fish. So anyone wanting to kill a fish wants it all for themselves, hence is scum
2. It is well known that fish, like other animals, should be killed when in a state of happiness, so that their muscles are relaxed and the meat is more tender. It would be far more sensible to let me die peacefully. So anyone wanting to lynch a fish is antitown
3. Penguins only eat live fish. So anyone wanting to kill a fish is certainly not a penguin, hence is scum
4. Actually, the fish in the picture is a robot fish.

In light of this evidence, I fully expect those voting for me to:
1) Unvote me
2) Admit that they are scum
3) Vote for themselves
Anything else is merely prolonging the inevitable.

Less arguing, more getting in mah belleh. OM NOM NOM NOM

I think I'm probably going to like this player group.

[DraketheFake]

didn't think what would be easy, DraketheFake?

To find scum, of course.

[DraketheFake]

didn't think what would be easy, DraketheFake?

To find scum, of course.

Er, ah, "Finding scum, of course."

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH

ZEEnon - 3 (Nuwen, Mizz.Mafia, DraketheFake)
Nuwen - 1 (Amished)
Fishythefish - 2 (JereIC, pacman281292)
JereIC - 1 (Light-kun)
DraketheFake - 3 (na85, ZEEnon, Debonair Danny DiPiertro)
na85 - 1 (Fishythefish)

Not Voting - freeko

12 alive, 7 to lynch.


-Mod

[DraketheFake]

please list all the reasons why you already assume that i'm scum.

1. I'm voting for you, and I do not vote for town players, therefore since I am voting for you you must be scum.
2. You said that your favorite animal was a cow, whereas in this game all of the (pro-town) players are penguins, therefore admitting that your favorite animal is not within the realm of possibility for a townie is tantamount to anti-town behavior.
3. I don't like your face.
4. Or your shoes.

Open and shut, ladies and gentlepenguins.

[DraketheFake]

I remain unconvinced.

Who needs you anyhow? Nuwen and Mizz.Mafia are better than you any day.

(But I made my case so bulletproooooooooof.)

[DraketheFake]

do i see circle reasoning ?

Are we playing that questions-only game from Rosencrantz and Guldenstern Are Dead?

[DraketheFake]

Not a question 1-Love.

[DraketheFake]

You make a pretty strong case. Let's lynch Zeenon.

There's 4 votes, Mr. non (5 if we're using Fishy's math). A claim seems prescient. Maybe even cogent. To what strangers, what welcome.

[DraketheFake]

Guys, did you hear what he called me?

That is just plain rude.

[DraketheFake]

Hi 1 everybody!

(I still don't like your dancing cow. But then, it did helps us track down those damn scummers.)

(If this was a cop movie, this is the point at which I'd pat you on the shoulder in a manly-yet-touching fashion. Unfortunately, this is a game of Mafia and I am in fact a penguin.)

[DraketheFake]

At this point I think JereIC is obvscum. There is no need for a claim- I cannot think of a claim which could make me think about lynching anyone else.

I knew there was a reason I wanted to keep this man around.

[DraketheFake]

oh great, i'm playing with a bunch of retards. i don't know if you guys are joking or trying to piss me off.

Why not both ?

RVS has once again succeeded.

All hail.

[DraketheFake]

later on, he makes some forum outside of the game to see what people that react to the RVS tend to be usually, town or mafia.

Yeah this was

bad

awful timing on my part, though of course you are the inspiration. But don't worry, I've been playing Mafia long enough to form my own opinion. You just got me thinking about something I felt like discussing over there, is all.

But yeah admittedly it looks like I'm a retard. You'll just have to take my word that my opinion on you came not from that thread but rather from the fact that I've been playing Mafia for years.

i find yet another scumtell from you. you manipulate my words, changing them to say what you want. no where do i say that there is absolutely no reason to vote in the RVS as a pro-town player. i said that scum benefit from random voting, i didn't say that town-aligned players shouldn't participate.

To be fair, you saying "only scum benefit from voting during the random voting stage" is A. Ridiculous, and B. Not really that far logically from "townies shouldn't vote during the random voting stage" (because good townies shouldn't do things that only benefit scum, natch).

I think there's a pretty high chance that both you and Nuwen are townies, and I find your declaration that Nuwen is "definitely" scum if you flip townie to be misguided and incredibly naive.

Actually, come to think of it, this next bit:

(this summary is by no means trying to get everyone to convert to my views. if you agree with what i have said, you agree. if you don't you can lynch me, but know that Nuwen is DEFINITE scum

after i flip penguin)

Seems like a slip, because for all intents and purposes

I

was under the impression that the Mafia would also be penguins. You seem to imply knowledge that they aren't penguins, which would be unfortunate for you, but I think I may have started it by calling everybody "gentlepenguins" so I'll let it go for now.

On the other hand:

Unvote

Vote: ZEEnon

Let's not be too hasty about this though, but I'm with Nuwen that ZEE's aneurysm about random votes is crazy suspicious. Especially when it happened he was sitting at L-4 at the time, well outside the range of a reasonable scum bandwagon,

so let's see how he reacts at L-2 when the pressure is real and not just imagined.

This is a

textbook[/b] scum-hop. Like, I think I may have read this exact post elsewhere. ZEE's "aneurysm" about random votes is not "crazy" suspicious; it's at most mildly suspicious, and in the case where the target becomes hyper defensive and starts posting blocks of text I think it's probably more likely a flustered townie. The part I bolded is particularly troublesome, because it implies some illusory connection between the way someone acts under pressure and the number of votes they have on them. You already know how ZEEnon is going to react under pressure: he flipped out when there were three obvious joke votes and almost gave up on the game. If you find it suspicious, you find it suspicious, but your referendum about how it's a "pressure vote" combined with your comically overblown emotional language make it far more likely to me that you're scum that ZEEnon is.

Unvote, Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

(Even if most penguins are quite dashing.)

[DraketheFake]

I think it is you who may have made the slip by pointing ourt that someone ekse had made a slip.

Well, I think it is

YOU

who may have made the slip by pointing out that

I

may have made a slip by pointing out that

someone else

may have have made a slip.

And around and around it goes.

Drake, I agree with your read on ZEEnon, but I'm not sure why you find DDD scummy when Nuwen is using basically the same arguments.

Because I believe Nuwen is making them is good faith. He directs questions at ZEEnon about his behavior and asks for clarification. DDD's post smacks of trying to strike while the iron's hot, and his shift from "This is suspicious" to "Nevermind this is really a pressure vote" is bullshit.

***WE INTERRUPT THIS POST TO BRING YOU BREAKING NEWS!!!***

Furthermore, I agree with freeko about DtF's slip bits.

Ahahahahahaha, of course you do.

I've seen plenty of terrible play and so far it's universaly been terrible town play.

Glass houses etc.

If

we lynch ZEE and

if

he flips scum then perhaps someone flying in on his behalf is a scum partner; if he flips town then the people finishing off the wagon need a longer look. Votes are the most useful tool the town has and we shouldn't be afraid to use them.

We should not be afraid to use them

correctly

. Those things you posted are true of any wagon, and they certainly don't amount to "putting more pressure on the town."

[DraketheFake]

All in a single post, hence no shift, hence you're lying or at least willfully misrepresenting my position. Liars deserve special attention.

You're, uh, pretty dense if you think a shift within a single post isn't possible. You led with a legitimate reason and closed on an illegitimate one, giving greater credence to the second reason.

A bit odd that you're voting for a player you just helped prove town though.

Pot kettle etc.

(I knew I should have gone with "Those who live in scum houses." Jerk.)

[DraketheFake]

I also disagree with DDD's analysis of the rest of the towns play. Criticizing us for bad play in the RVS when I found it to be very clearly extremely hilarious. As long as we don't lynch somebody in the RVS, most play there (here, though we're moving .. on UP! To the East side! I've finally got... sorry, it's a catchy tune ) can't be critiqued as bad.

I never criticized the town for bad RVS play... I quite enjoyed this town's RVS phase. I'm not sure where you're getting this from...

See, Amished's interpretation is how I was interpreting it, too.

But you're right, you said:

I've seen plenty of terrible play

and so far

it's universally been terrible town play.

If you miss the word order of those three words, you might come away with "I've seen plenty of terrible town

play so far

and it's universally etc." Which changes the whole meaning to a jab at the town. My glass houses comment is humbly with drawn.

(You're still scum.)

[DraketheFake]

You led with a legitimate reason and closed on an illegitimate one, giving greater credence to the second reason.

And before you jump all over me for this, let me clarify that by "legitimate" I mean "hypothetically legitimate," and by illegitimate I mean "illegitimate as it applies to this situation."

By which I mean I don't think that pressure votes are always illegitimate and I do think that in this case your analysis of typically "terrible town behavior" clashes with your decision to vote for him the point of near-schizophrenia.

[DraketheFake]

I'd also like other people to chime in on this one because I think this could be big.

Make your own case, friend-o.

Though I do understand the intent to retort drake by trying to turn the insult back at him. Wouldn't a better play have been to just ignore it?

But but but what about witty reparteeeeeeeee?

I, for one, appreciated DDD's efforts to clear himself using silly logic, which is kind of my thing. If I hadn't misread it I'd have been even more totally fine with. I'm a little dismayed he didn't find a way to turn my follow-up pot calling the kettle black aphorism against me.

"WIFOM" & "slips" & "RVS" & "flip" & "DtF"

You should probably take a quick gander through the Wiki, which is one of the links under the site banner where you log in. That will explain WIFOM certainly, and will help you understand more of what's going on generally. "RVS" stands for "random voting stage," which you can probably also find there. A "slip" in this context would be the idea that a scum player would "slip" and reveal too much information, in perhaps a suspicious fashion. "Flips town" or "Flips mafia" refers to finding out a player's alignment once they die - in the context, the player in question was implying that if certain payer "flipped" town, then another player voting for them was likely to be mafia, with is a fallacy and something you shouldn't bother with.

And finally DtF is me. Or, rather, the acronym you get when you separate the first letters of the 3 words of my username (

D

rake

t

he

F

ake). You'll find that players often do this to save time on typing, or, in Danny's case, to remind themselves of large breasts.

[DraketheFake]

If you do not contribute more than a single line in agreement with an argument, I will write your name in the Death Note. You do NOT post like this in order to appear to be actively playing a game when your not. I would prefer you type a [valid] post when you have the time to this crap, but if you can only do the latter, I request you replace yourself. This doesn't help town for you to just say, "This person is right." Oh, and as a note, I will refer to you as "Cow" since I don't really like using "na" as a name of reference, and I am much to lazy to recall alphanumerics.

This is a pretty bad misread - if you'd looked literally three posts above, you'd have noticed na85 asking for information about the generally accepted roles in a "normal" mini, and then by some chance you might have noticed that the end of Nuwen's post contained information in regards to that question, and then there's an outside chance you wouldn't have made an ass out of yourself by lashing out disproportionately harshly against an innocuous post and further acquitted yourself by being too lazy to recall 4 goddamn characters.

So there's one of two options that I see, 1) he's being honest, but entirely unreasonable in his opinions or 2) he's being dishonest and simply pushing for a town lynch. Either way his actions are anti-town. My vote stays on ZEEnon till he shows up again so I can get a better read, but freeko heads up the rest of the top of my current scum list.

I think there's probably option 1.5) He overstated his case in agreeing with somebody else's suspicions in an attempt to look like he was adding content and not merely hopping onto a bandwagon. Which I'm not giving my full blessing by any means, but I think there's at least a reasonable chance that that is townie behavior.

But you do make a good point about ZEEnon's disappearance.

i cant tell if your being nice or mean..

I think what he's trying to be is "helpful."

And finally DtF is me. Or, rather, the acronym you get when you separate the first letters of the 3 words of my username (DraketheFake). You'll find that players often do this to save time on typing, or, in Danny's case, to remind themselves of large breasts.

Ironic, coming from the guy whose acronym stands for

D

own

t

o

F

uck. He's just here trolling for sex, considering there are minors on this site he's probably a pedo. Being a pedo is a scumtell, lynch him.

Mind = blown. Though your grasp of what constitutes irony leaves a bit to be desired.

[DraketheFake]

Shouldn't he be more concerned about truth than how he appears to the rest of us?

Yes, ideally we'd all be more concerned with the truth. Unfortunately, only 2-4 of us know the full truth at the moment, so we'll have to go with how it appears for now

It may not be a scum-tell, but it seems like anti-town behavior to me and it sure as hell is suspicious.

I mean it's obviously noteworthy. In the sense that all behavior in a game of Mafia is noteworthy. Whether or not it's suspicious has a lot to do with something we don't know right now.

I don't think it was a joke. I think you meant it as a serious defense and then when somebody poked a hole in it you played it off as "oh ha ha just kidding lol"

I think the furthest I'm willing to go is that he was hoping I might focus more on discussing his "proof" than continuing to apply pressure. Which, having said that, makes it sound just about as damning.

But he was clearly not deadly serious about the fact that all terrible play is town play, and he was clearly not deadly serious about the fact that anyone voting for a terrible (town) player was suspicious, because

he was doing the same thing

.

[DraketheFake]

I'm still not comfortable with ZEEnon and still tend to think he's scum, but at this juncture I'm much more confident in freeko being scum.

You know, I'm still not sure I see where you made a cogent argument for thinking that ZEEnon is scum (but then, it's been a while since I went back and re-read the post that started off "Most terrible play is town play," so I 'm sure you transitioned into it somehow or another). Your insistence that you still think he's scum is way more suspicious here than the fact that you're voting for someone voting for you, and the fact that you seem to feel the need to justify jumping off your initial suspect gives away that you're worried about it.

Take note, kids, this is what a weeaboo looks like when he backpedals. My vote's staying on you, douchebag.

I'll give you your first response rant because Light-kun overstepped his bounds, but if he got under your skin to the point where you can't rationally analyze his behavior anymore then you're going to be a big burden to this town. Be the bigger person, it's way more satisfying I promise.

That said I see this less as backpedaling and more as him - again - misconstruing the problem other people had with his response to you.

DDD, why do you keep constantly trying to quanitfy your actions?

Because he's right in the sense that the more information the town has to go on, the better?

That said:

C) How is this post not helpful? If I'm scum I'm either early bussing or trying to frame an innocent. If I'm town I'm showing a potential trap set by scum or maybe it's one big misunderstanding. If I'm killed in some fashion or cleared by a cop then it provides you a wealth of information about my relationship with Drake. It might not be useful this second, but long term it's plenty useful if you know how to use it.

Like Fishy, I dislike this part of this bigger post. I dislike it especially in light of this:

Scum have to lie and deceive to win the game, the town need to uncover the truth, if I don’t worry about appearances and simply present the facts as I see them then the town will benefit from one less layer of bullshit to cut through.

This isn't really what you were saying in Point C, now is it? The whole "If I'm blah then blah" is so much WIFOM and a not-so-subtle implication that I should be lynched if you're a townie, which is not pro-town behavior. Yes, scum have to lie and deceive to win the game, part of which is often that scum need to create false links between players in order to avoid responsibility for being on the wagons of lynched townies - and around and around it goes.

[DraketheFake]

I realize my play style is a bit unconventional and I think that's the cause of much of the suspicion on me.

How do you mean? I see nothing at all unconventional about your play.

[DraketheFake]

Well sure, apparently me

playing with my content filter off

looks to the rest of you like scum making 86,000 mistakes instead of a simply different play style. Furthermore, if freeko is any example the status quo is to ignore and evade any arguments made against you instead of taking them head on like I prefer to do which does in fact only seem to get me into more trouble as this post surely will, won't stop me from making them though.

- Yadda yadda yadda Meta defense yadda. -

It's nonsensical.

Your last line here does good job of summarizing how I feel about the second two paragraphs, which I've also summarized. What is the bolded line supposed to mean? Your playstyle is not "different." Your playstyle is "post a lot and at length," which is nothing new under the sun. I've been suspicious of you for a suspicious vote cast for suspicious reasons, and you've been suspicious of another player for a questionable reason and he's answered with all the gravity deserved by your attack.

I'm glad Mizz.Mafia was replaced. Clueless estrogen on the Internet makes me want to tear my well-conditioned hair out. I don't think her play reflected on her role, as she was obviously flailing about, but I wouldn't immediately discount it.

I'm glad she is going to be replaced because she was genuinely in over her head and now we might have a valid contribution from all 12 of the players in the game. The standard prescription for players replacing serious non-contributing lurkers is generally "Post," which it should be easy to pick up on if her replacement doesn't do much of it.

(4th vote! Forget DDD, that makes me scum! LYNCH TIME!!!!!)

What are you doing? Did DDD ever even say that? Pointing out your behavior as "suspicious" in an attempt to head off suspicion indicates a clear lack of confidence in what you're doing and/or substandard reasons for doing it, which the rest of your post doesn't brush up against at all.

Of course, I'm most concerned about getting out of suspicion. I have

one

piece of confirmed information. I win with the town. If I focus on getting someone else lynched there's a 20-35% "random" chance we lynch correctly and a 65-80% random chance we lynch a fellow pro-town player and that's assuming I somehow move the attention off me while spending more time examining other people. If I fail in moving suspicion off me and I'm lynched then there's a 100% chance a pro-town player has been lynched. It's simple math that I should dedicate the bulk of my time to not being lynched and yes, I have done some hunting in my defenses.

Ugh. I despise this kind of soft-claiming. If you're going to claim because a fourth player hopped onto your wagon, then go ahead and do it without all this maundering on. If you're going to count on everybody being able to empathize with the plight of a player who has no seeming way to get out from under the unfair suspicion created by everybody else being idiots, then best of luck to you. If you're banking on people misunderstanding your little opening line to mean that you have one

additional

piece of information, well then that's decently clever but I'm not falling for it.

Oh and this, from earlier in the same post:

Apologies to Pacman for the terrible, evil wall of text, but just maybe he could bother to read through it and actually do some scumhunting even if it's of me?

Is REALLY cute. The suspicion of pacman has nothing whatsoever to do with you. The whole "Contribute, even if it's to vote for me!" attitude is in clear contradiction of your point further down. We understand that you think pacman's wagon has more merit than yours, but we're not biting for a reason.

(Again, I am too lazy too look up who you were voting, and this only applies if you were voting DDD.)

Would it have been so hard to open a new tab and check the most recent vote count? Instead you had to make a conditional inquiry/statement of suspicion?

This is also false. You know your flavor name, you know your rolename, you know your role ability (if applicable), and you know your alignment. Of course all this would only be confirmed to everyone else upon your death (assuming that roles are flipped when the player dies)

What kind of point is this? Are you trying to apply LAL to a clear oversimplified softclaim? Really?

[DraketheFake]

So we've got a player with tunnel vision, who has weak argumentation at best and is riding the coattails of others and who ignores any inconvenient arguments I might make since his mind was seemingly made up from his vote. Yeah, that's a big box of suspicious activity wrapped in one person.

I find it a little schizophrenic for a player who's been making one case on the same player for ~6 pages to accuse that same player of tunneling. Your attempt to buddy up to me and L-k is noted also.

Of course it is. The entirety of his last post is yet another qualifying statment to his horrible play. The entirety of his post is as follows:

L-k is referring to the post above the one you quoted, which is 225. And your continued refusal to address anything DDD says is not any better on the spectrum of response than DDD's strategy of replying in detail to most everything, something you've labeled as "defensive."

[DraketheFake]

Furthermore, this is hypocritical of you as when I did bring up Pacman's lack of content in passing you claimed it "Is REALLY cute. The suspicion of pacman has nothing whatsoever to do with you." So when I was trying to get a reaction and information from another player, it's distracting, but when I don't I'm purely defensive or tunneling, you're setting me up to fail.

A) I have touched on you early in the game for twisting my words, I have questioned LK on hypocrisy, and I made note of Pacman's lack of analysis.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Were you "making note of pacman's lack of analysis," or were you "trying to get a reaction and information from another player?" I don't have a problem with you noting pacman's lack of contribution - hell, it's not like it's all that much of a secret. But for you to couch your suspicion or note-making or reaction-soliciting or whatever you want to call it in the context of more defense of your own actions makes your own "contribution" seem like one of: an aside, or, you throwing things out there to avoid having people accuse you of focusing only on one player.

Which you have been.

[DraketheFake]

Becuase it's obviously impossible for it to be both a note of his play and a probe for more information.

Your either/or situation is busted and you're conveniently overlooking the other people I addressed before Pacman when you're coming to your conclusion of me trying to avoid suspicion by tossing names out there.

But is it really either of those things if you start off a longer post that has nothing to do with pacman with a little jab at his play? The answer, is no. Especially considering the wealth of other posters actually addressing him in serious form.

And I'm not overlooking them. Your note on L-k was another jab in passing, and aside from your early vote on/suspicion of ZEEnon (which, I note, you've dropped entirely) you've been freeko freeko freeko. Which is not to say that we should throw that on the heap of evidence by any means. Just that for you to accuse a player of tunneling is not the most weighty accusation of all time.

[DraketheFake]

You are actively harming your case against DDD.

You read like a scum desperately trying to get a townie lynched, or a hopelessly tunnelled townie.

Ugh. This this this.

But I don't know that I agree with your vote. It seems that both instances are equally likely, and freeko is the sort of hypothetical townie that a scum being wagoned love to have pop up. Which isn't a strike against DDD, obviously, but these sorts of interactions are rarely good for the town unless he really is just a scum playing in a bizarre fashion.

Does anyone besides me see that pacman281292 is lurking to the extreme? He has not posted since last Sunday I believe. He also fails to acknowledge the accusations voiced by me, as well as by Amished .

Yes, we all see it. We're all aware he's lurking. Everybody in the thread. Your continued hyper-focus on a player who hasn't bothered to defend himself against your accusations as a result of lurking smells a little bit like making a safe case against somebody in order to appear active and avoid re-drawing attention that was on you initially. But I can't say I'm fond of pacman's absence either.

Unvote

for now. Howard, some more thoughts from your corner would be appreciated along with pacman's.

[DraketheFake]

I think I'm probably going to like this player group.

You havent had the (dis?)pleasure of playing with me yet.

Should be fun times had by all in this game.

Oh, how fitting. I just didn't think that you were actively going to campaign to make my stance wrong.

I dont care if I am lynched. Information will be gained from it. Mostly that DDD is a bag of crap and has played that way the entirety of the first day. Then you have teh second wave of morons that will say that my argument lacked merit. Which means that by using my logic and reasoning to put someone else's lack thereof on display is a bad play.

Kindly point to some logic and/or reasoning that you've used. All I've seen you do is flail away at the words "backpedaling" and "qualifying" for three pages.

This goes against everything this game is about. That DDD backtracks on himself many times to qualify himself as a town player tells me that he is telling a lie. He is telling himself and everyone else this same lie in hopes that people wille ventually believe it.

I don't even know what you're getting at anymore, given that this statement doesn't make sense. I mean... of course he's telling us he's a town player? He's trying not to get lynched? You'd actually need to provide some specific examples of where he's acted as "not a town player" to prove that he was lying, and you seem content to offer glittering generalities.

Also, you have the third wave of morons that bother actually play the game and pretty much try to snipe from the sidelines at every chacne possible. Just look at how many of them there are. Finally you have those who dont even bother to play the game like pacman (gone for about a week now) with nothing more than a fleeting suspicion on him. At least next time I know when I join a game , that I shouldnt actually play it.

Yeah, nothing more than a fleeting suspicion. It's not like more than half of the players in the game haven't pointed it out or anything.

I dunno, man. I find your accusations here fairly baseless and I find the way you're self-destructing to be pretty unfortunate if indeed you are a town player (an issue I guess you won't bother addressing for fear of being called on your own crap logic about claimed town players).

[DraketheFake]

Give Slim Shady here some time, I'm sure he'll get to spewing aggression and personal attacks at everybody else in due time.

Though to be fair your concentration on the facts that Howard is A. Newer to the game and B. A replacement really have no bearing on what you're voting freeko for.

[DraketheFake]

And I in turn would direct Mr. DiPietro to my posts 276, 283, and 289 to answer my part of that question. I unvoted in 276, for reference.

Personally, I'd prefer if we got someone to replace freeko who appeared to give a crap about playing this game even under pressure from other players rather than just lynching him outright, as his behavior is detrimental and unfair to whichever side he's on. But failing that, I'd be fine loosing him of the burden of being alive in this game.

[DraketheFake]

No, instead I am perfectly fine with being lynched. Its going to make for a fun D2 with everyone having to explain themselves as to why they voted for me

How much fun is it going to be for you to read the equivalent of 7 other players collectively shrugging their shoulders and pointing to how abrasive and useless you've been all day?

Nothing I do is ever rational.

Vote: freeko

. L-1, etc.

[DraketheFake]

Why would I as a scum player want to have people voting for me jackass?

Forgot this gem. As a scum player you wouldn't want to have players voting for you, which means that you might

stop being an abrasive douchebag and actually play the goddamn game

in order to avoid having even more votes put on you. And no, repeatedly whining about DDD "backpedaling" doesn't count as playing.

[DraketheFake]

No hammers before we get a claim, agreed?

Aw it's sweet, you think we're getting a claim.

How much you have to learn .

He's also made it pretty clear that he doesn't care to share any of his actual thoughts or precious suspicions, which is peachy of him (I imagine it's "Everybody voting for me is obviously scum" or something to that effect, anyway). Don't get me wrong, we absolutely shouldn't hammer until he gets to post more of his vitriol, but I have my doubts.

[DraketheFake]

Hm.

To unvote and prolong the misery, or not to do that: that is the question.

(OP, he should have 6 votes on him in that vote count.)

[DraketheFake]

To be fair and accurate, it has been 8 days now since pacman posted anything. Which is obviously unacceptable.

Mod: Did he ever pick up his prod? Could we get some kind second prod/replacement process going?

Currently awaiting a response, which I gave him a few days. Will send another prod tomorrow - if he doesn't respond to that one, he will be replaced. Won't start day without replacement though.

[DraketheFake]

Hahahahahahahahahaha.

Trying to pass it off like he fake self-hammered intentionally. Classic.

[DraketheFake]

Doing a re-read, taking a look especially at Light-kun and na85. Results in a while.

[DraketheFake]

I mean, does it

really

matter? I haven't felt misrepresented by either of your viewpoints, and both of those things are reasons that I voted for DDD.

I see the "textbook" comment and the latter half of the argument as one in the same. Perhaps I am missing the difference. Thank you for clarifying.

This is essentially correct. Back to scum-hunting.

[DraketheFake]

The conduct of Light-kun and na85, together and separate, bothered me during my re-read, starting with Light-kun's oddity in post 132:

Excellent, thank you Nuwen.

If you do not contribute more than a single line in agreement with an argument, I will write your name in the Death Note.

You do NOT post like this in order to appear to be actively playing a game when your not.

I would prefer you type a [valid] post when you have the time to this crap, but if you can only do the latter, I request you replace yourself. This doesn't help town for you to just say, "This person is right." Oh, and as a note, I will refer to you as "Cow" since I don't really like using "na" as a name of reference, and I am much to lazy to recall alphanumerics.

Light-kun here attacks na85 for a ridiculous and completely misinterpreted reason; na85's one-line quoted post is in reference to a question he asked about typical roles in a Normal game that Nuwen answered with a link. However, there is a kernel of truth to Light-kun's basic accusation: while this was still the early game, na85's only truly contentful post was 107:

Drake, I agree with your read on ZEEnon, but I'm not sure why you find DDD scummy when Nuwen is using basically the same arguments. Could you point out what exactly made DDD's post scummy and Nuwen's posts not? Is the fact that he's jumping votes while Nuwen is just backing up her original vote with a serious argument?

DDD's vote was opportunistic and there is no real reason to push zeenon to L-2 when the explosion we witnessed was a clear indication that he already feels the pressure is real.

IMO Nuwen's case is different because she backed up her opinions with sound logic and she did it first (i.e. no opportunity to say "Yeah I like that argument, let's go with it").

A sentiment I agree with. na85 had previously expressed a number of mostly joking things (concordance with my joke case on ZEEnon, for instance), and had responded to ZEEnon's wall-o-text return with due levity.

na85 responds to Light-kun's 132 in 140:

Here's a thought, how about you calm the fuck down?

I had a question that was relevant to the game we're playing, and Nuwen was kind enough to repond and point me in the right direction. I then thanked her for taking the time to help a new player like myself.

As for your assinine comments about my level of activity: I play how I want to play. You do NOT get to dictate my play style, and certainly not in insulting, superior tones the way you did. If you can't handle people who don't post every day, I request you get down on your knees and kiss my ass since it doesn't help town for you to just say "You're a bad player."

[Insults snipped]

unvote: Drake the Fake, vote: Light-kun

Why am I voting for you? Because town has no use for trolls.

As a town we want people who will calmly and rationally debate and discuss.

You don't seem interested in doing that so you're either scum or you're a poor town player. Either way, you aren't pro-town.

The bolded part is mine, and important down the road.

na85 made a number of useful posts on page 7, going back and forth with DDD, coming down on Mizz.Mafia with an example from real life, and
discussing that with JereIC, and then Light-kun makes this post:

I have to agree with na85 that Light-kun’s post was picking a troll. You can argue that na85 is active lurking by just agreeing with other people, but Light-kun’s post was just picking a fight without reason.

Did you even read my post?

The cow thing was approximately 1/8th of my post's point and was generally tongue in cheek. (Granted, I assumed cow could handle it better, but I don't really care as it is all very unimportant and beside the point.)

I would like it noted that while Cow acted within reason, everything else in the post was actually game related and ignored:

Big, fat, meaningless FoS Danny and ZEEnon.

Thus far, I have seen several different arguments and am ready so:

0=Town, 100=mafia

DraketheFake - 29%
Fishythefish - 38%
JereIC - 32%
Light-kun - 100% (This is joke, as I am "Obvious Kira")
pacman281292 - 37% (Mostly due to the WTF-O-Meter
ZEEnon - 41%
Mizz.Mafia - --
na85 - 30%
Amished - 38%
Debonair Danny DiPietro - 40%
freeko - 31%
Nuwen - 27%

I don't really have much analysis at this moment, and I won't be making a joke at another player's expense. Sorry since that pissed people off enough to ignore the rest of my post. However, ZEEnon and Danny still owe me responses for that post.

Admittedly, I've fallen into the same trap as the other people he's accusing of short-sightedness here, so I'll mention that the other game-related bits of 132 involved asking ZEEnon and DDD questions.

I'm not a huge fan of meaningless percentages to begin with, but at least his are generally consistent with who he'd been hounding/voting for so far. It confuses me that Amished/Fishy were so high, given that I can find him having posted anything about them, and it seems like if he's just giving out higher numbers for less active players then certainly pacman should have been higher. The only troubling thing here, I suppose, is that he goes out of his way to prove he's not particularly suspicious of na85, putting him in the bottom 3. This seems like a pretty severe backtrack from somebody who just accused another player of active lurking to the point where he asked that player to replace himself, and Light-kun never acknowledges that aspect of his original post, only the "Cow' thing.

na85 has this to say in 176:

The cow thing was approximately 1/8th of my post's point and was generally tongue in cheek.

Take note, kids, this is what a weeaboo looks like when he backpedals. My vote's staying on you, douchebag.

And here's me in 189, to na85:

Take note, kids, this is what a weeaboo looks like when he backpedals. My vote's staying on you, douchebag.

I'll give you your first response rant because Light-kun overstepped his bounds, but if he got under your skin to the point where you can't rationally analyze his behavior anymore then you're going to be a big burden to this town. Be the bigger person, it's way more satisfying I promise.

That said I see this less as backpedaling and more as him - again - misconstruing the problem other people had with his response to you.

I see it less as this now having re-read both L-k posts, but at the time I was more concerned with DDD.

Light-kun, in your percentages, Amished and I follow your two explained suspects by a mere couple of percents, at 6% clear of the approximate baseline. You haven't mentioned either of our names yet, and we happen to be two of the very few other players who have criticised you. Can you explain your suspicions?

Fish, I will only respond to you at the moment: You seem to have indicated, either subconsciously or unintentionally, something that I feel should be considered a bit of an assumption. It could, also, be a jest, but this mark is one of the few telling comments I've seen. I'm not going to comment on it just yet as I need to reread that post to decide and look at your play in isolation.

Fishy's is a good question and one I just wondered about myself.

In 207, Light-kun responds to na85's 176:

Take note, kids, this is what a weeaboo looks like when he backpedals. My vote's staying on you, douchebag.

I just realized this post exist reading from page 6-7 and I failed to acknowledge you attacking me. Is calling one who uses a dancing cow for an avatar really offensive to you? I suppose I've being seeing a lot of overreaction from you, but you never actually asked me to not call you cow. (And if you did, do tell me where, because I have surely missed it.)

L-k responds, but again fails to address the main point of contention between them. Hint: I don't think he ever minded that you were calling him Cow.

L-k then spends much of the next page attacking DDD, most notably in 215:

Of course, I'm most concerned about getting out of suspicion.

1 I have one piece of confirmed information. I win with the town. If I focus on getting someone else lynched there's a 20-35% "random" chance we lynch correctly and a 65-80% random chance we lynch a fellow pro-town player and that's assuming

I somehow move the attention off me while spending more time examining other people.2 If I fail in moving suspicion off me and I'm lynched then there's a 100% chance a pro-town player has been lynched.

3 It's simple math that I should dedicate the bulk of my time to not being lynched and yes, I have done some hunting in my defenses.

1. This is a scum type play no matter your alignment. You seem to then spend the rest of the paragraph giving town reasons to defend your scum type play.

2. Why are you not devoting you time to examining other players? Why are all your posts primarily defensive? I think that while you should acknowledge cases against you, most of your time, effort, and posting space should be dedicated to catching scum and not in constantly back tracking to clarify a previous post's meaning. You to be doing the latter a lot and failing to make persuasive arguments to prove people are scum.

3. This is a plea to emotion or majority or both. In any of these cases, it is still a logical fallacy and does nothing to sway me away from voting you.

But L-k never votes for DDD. In fact, on the very next page, he votes freeko on what appears to be the most cursory of reasons:

Now for that solo post look at Debonair.

Unvote; Vote Freeko

I believe his last post is scumhunting, thus your post is a lie.

He announces that he'll be taking a look at Danny's posts solo, and then, based on the idea that Danny's last post was "scumhunting," and that freeko has said that DDD did "no scumhunting," he votes for freeko. This seems mildly inconsistent at best. Then comes 244:

I call "I win with town" as a plea to majority, which is scummy in my book.

I was getting a slight "survivor" vibe off of him, but if he were, I'm pretty sure claiming it would result in his lynch anyway. And...

Hm... You still lie, you still say he did zero scum hunting. I see some.

Vote Freeko

Needless speculation about DDD being a survivor (?), followed by a re-assertion of weak reasoning and an unnecessary re-vote. L-k then responds directly to freeko in 256, and further re-states his agreement with the wagon on freeko in 268 while clarifying which post of DDD's he deemed to be scumhunting (225).

And then he finally answers Fishy's question from way back when about what made him so scummy, in 305:

My high percent on the fish is due to an extremely far reach that can conclude he is scummy off a statement made during the rvs, which might be reading too much into flavor. I am not too informed on the matter and due to his play (versus a reading in his word choice), he looks to be one of the more town aligned players. Making the assumption I live to see the point where it is irrelevant (he's dead, or we are in lylo, or I'm about to be lynched.) I'll be sure to explain, but it really isn't anything to concern yourself with and it certainly isn't damning. (If it were damning, not mentioning it would be stupid.)

Which... well... I don't even know.

na85's last post yesterday came at the 258 mark, the result of some outside-the-game events and mostly pre-freeko's immense meltdown. na85 ended the day voting for L-k, and hasn't posted since.

This post is a monster, and I apologize, and I'm not even sure how much can be gleaned from it. The reason I went back looked at this interaction is because the reactions seemed to be disproportionate: na85's initial rage, Light-kun's seeming inability to address what was actually the most insulting part of his first post, and then the delay in addressing it again. na85's disappearance, while legitimate, doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't also useful in keeping distance between the players. Right now of the two I'm more concerned about Light-kun, for general weak reasoning and his list of percentages, to the point where I suppose I can cast the first stone today, especially considering his early-day set-up speculation that seems more alarmist than practical.

Vote: Light-kun

.

[DraketheFake]

You're initiative, though misguided, is appreciated Drake. Sadly, I don't really have any strong suspicions. Anyone have a lead other than me?

I never know how to take this sort of sentiment. I obviously don't like your last line, as it smacks slightly of desperation, and I also don't like the fact that you don't seem to remember that ZEEnon was replaced.

Howard, I'm slightly bothered that you think knowing or speculating of a vig, sk, or second mafia group doesn't help us now. It offers us a warning as to what we might be fighting. Though, I think that a second mafia group is rather unlikely, we should be wary of a Serial killer or whatever. If its vig, hm.... what should we do assuming vig? Act as though we have two votes? The serial killer might listen though I highly doubt the mafia (if there are two) will.

It's not really worthwhile to speculate exactly because we don't want anybody to come out and claim vig right now. Also because speculation =! scumhunting, and in fact detracts from it, which is really the only paramount thing at the moment.

That said.

Looking back, hohum (nee ZEEnon) has some answering to do for ZEEnon's play at the end of yesterday. More and more, it looks like ZEEnon was a skittish scum who freaked under joke pressure then lurked the rest of the day while pressuring the only other truly inactive player. I could certainly get behind a wagon there, but I would like to hear from hohum first.

[DraketheFake]

Mod: Could we have a little poke of hohum, as well? And did na85 ever pick his prod up?

hohum confirmed that he received his PM. He hasn't posted yet, so I'll send him the link to the thread, just in case he didn't receive it or something. na85 hasn't picked up their prod yet. I will send another. If they don't respond in 24 hours, I'll replace them. I seem to be pretty fortunate when it comes to getting replacements. -Mod

1. Danny did look scummy.

Hell, everyone looks scummy to me.

Though, I need to check my percents to see who's less so. Hell, seeing Amished flip, I probably need to reset them.

But see, just throwing out arbitrary percents isn't really enough. For example, I still have no idea why Amished was ever so high on your percentage (and neither did he, from all reports), and so I can't possibly imagine how seeing him flip brought you to where you are now.

And that bolded part seems designed to cover yourself more than add anything useful to the discussion.

[DraketheFake]

My first guess is serial killer, third guess vig, and beyond that;

I have no idea why we have a second death.

Hm... under the assumption of a 3 person mafia team and 1 serial killer, we might be in a bit of trouble tomorrow. With a vig, we could instruct their actions. And if we're lucky, assuming sk, the sk might listen as to, at least, appear to be vigilante. This could be useful for the time being if nothing else.

Other than that, I can't think of a reason for the kill. Except for some bizzare (though allowed) role like...naive doctor or something.

...

I disagree Howard. It tells us that there is a second killing role out their. So, we can keep our minds open to the possibility that a serial killer is roaming, which means watching for someone who seems particularly scummy but isn't connected to anyone else.

...

...

Interesting theory, but we should still be wary of possible serial killer.

...

...

...

I'm the vigilante.

So then your entire day-strategy was founded on confusing the town by engaging them in a flurry of speculative posts about a second death that

you knew the cause of

? I understand the distancing attempt to a degree, but to continually correct another player about the possibility of a SK when

you know that you're the vig

is just... well, in the best light, it's just not very good play.

I see no reason to unvote at the moment, since you're not in any imminent danger, and I'd like some time to think about this.

[DraketheFake]

It makes plenty of sense for the SK trying to play Vig, though.

But like I said, I'm not sold either way.

[DraketheFake]

Alright.

Unvote

for now.

We should either pick the kill or not kill at all. Fishy, why on earth would you want him acting independently?

[DraketheFake]

By the time freeko's got rolling in any serious way, it was clear that he or DDD would be lynched, and scum have an easy time sitting back and voting for the scummier of the two.

I think the fact that you view the end of yesterday as a two-horse race, period, is probably as bad for you as your wagon switch.

[DraketheFake]

Holy crap, has it been a week? Very sorry. I've been shuttling back and forth between home and school, reading along but not posting. Expect something today or tomorrow.

[DraketheFake]

Gonna have spotty access until about Tuesday, I'm off to Cali to visit a grad school. I imagine I'll get a chance to post up tomorrow night or Saturday afternoon.

Doubt can be a bond as powerful and sustaining as certainty. When you are lost, you are not alone.

Netlava - 1 (Light-kun)
DraketheFake - 1 (FishytheFish)

Not Voting - 7 (Jazzmyn, HowardRoark, Nuwen, Netlava, JereIC, DraketheFake, Looker)

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

-Mod

(Vote Count accurate as of Post 460)

[DraketheFake]

This is all very exciting. I love it when people think that they can fire at will against the V/LA player with weak arguments and barren "analysis."

I can't really be accused of getting the freeko bandwagon going. My vote was for different reasons to all the other votes on him, including my later vote, and is pretty much unrelated to the bandwagon on him. I think you are clouded by hindsight; at the time, freeko was under no kind of pressure, and this is no more an attempt to bandwagon than any other first vote on a player. As I've expressed above, can't see a reason to think that hops from DDD to freeko are particularly scummy votes. The part of my voting pattern most worthy of attention is definitely my vote on DDD. This is the most beneficial vote of the three for scum by far, and merits attention; I suggest you look at the post and other posts I had made on DDD, and decide whether or not you think I justified it sufficiently.

This is such a suspect sentiment. Refusing to admit that adding a fourth vote onto a player pushes the second wagon to the forefront is short-sighted at best, and then to say "I can't be suspicious for this vote, but you should check out my other suspicious vote" is both a decoy and just odd.

As for the reason being lynching a townie; when I voted for freeko, I changed the vote situation from 4 for DDD, 3 for freeko to the other way around. This doesn't get the scum any closer to a lynch on a townie, unless I think that freeko is going to be easier to lynch than DDD; ie. that freeko is scummier than DDD. So yes, as scum I would have had a reason for switching, but only if I genuinely thought freeko was scummier than DDD. In other words, my switch is not useful for telling my alignment.

Trying to claim that changing the balance of votes from the main target all day to a player whose attacks are becoming more and more desperate against that player is not, somehow, the tipping point of the lynch remains a bit silly, and your last sentence doesn't necessarily follow the situation you set up logically.

And then, wonderfully, 452.

He continues to attack DDD for a long time- when he mentions other players, it is generally to counter their points.

You're going to have problems making the second half of that statement stick.

It isn’t clear what makes DtF change his mind about this.

He unvotes in the same post, and here his read is that freeko could well be simply a tunnelled townie. His next post, 283 is the only one in which we get any clue about how this read changes.

Um... yes it is? I bolded the section of the post that made me unvote DDD, and you quoted it: I agreed with your sentiment that he was harming his case against DDD, and then I wrote "this this this." I like how you try and allude to the fact that my 283 only sort of eplxains my position - which I think it does pretty well - and then only link to it.

DtF’s first point does nothing to clarify why he no longer thinks freeko is the scum’s dream townie. He doesn’t explain what he dislikes about the second,

which I had read as a sarcastic “you never believe that anything I do is rational” from freeko.

My read on this period is a contrived change of position from DtF.

I read it differently, which I suppose I thought must have been clear based on my vote.

Speaking of which:

Yes, I am saying that the optimal play for both scum and town was to vote for the scummier player, which is what I did.
I hardly thought it was neccessary to state that as town I voted for the scummier player- that is just what townies do.

The whole point of my argument has been that all you can draw from the vote analysis is that I thought freeko was scummier than DDD

- I am hardly trying to downplay this.

Hmm. I like how this applies to you but doesn't to me.

Vote: Fishythefish

[DraketheFake]

I think it's a fairly common scum tactic to single out players that they think won't be able to defend themselves: in this case, literally because I was on limited access. Also, your post 414 rang very badly for me as I mentioned.

[DraketheFake]

I'm a little surprised that no one has suggested killing us all (DtF, Fishy, and me) and letting mod sort it out. Assuming two of us are scum, then sacrificing a suspicious-looking townie would be worth it. If there's two scum total, then we kill them both and win. If there's three scum total, then we go into the last day with one scum and two or three pro-town players (depending on if we have Vig-kun strike night after next), and it will be easier to find the last scum.

However, if only one of us is scum, and there's three scum total, then killing all three of us screws town. The doc would have to get lucky for the town to win.

Did... did you just claim scum?

Why wouldn't you just advocate what is supposedly implied by your "plan," which is that both Fishy and I are scum? I mean, you

are

trying to help the town in theory here, right? Which you'd only do if you were town? So if you think there's a decent enough chance that two of the three of us are scum, and you're town acting in the town's interest, then you think that Fishy and I are scum, right? Why not just post your analysis and say that? Did you think you'd engender good will by volunteering to be killed along with us?

I've begun to get the sinking feeling that the active players in this game are, for the most part, townies, and that the serious lurkers are skating by on perfunctory posts while we argue ourselves into the ground. I'm still reasonably happy with my vote on Fishy, but the way he's responding is giving me pause, and the way Netlava came in and wanted to go back in the L-k direction doesn't seem all that useful to me at best. I'll do a lurker round-up soon, possibly as soon as right away since my flight back home is delayed.

[DraketheFake]

It's just a pretty weird tack to take, especially given that (if we're assuming three scum) there's a pretty decent chance that two out of any given three players are scum.

Bed time.

[DraketheFake]

Nothing's changed for me. DTF attack against Jere is...meh...I might eliminate Jere tomorrow night to facilitate things, but... No, no...
No need to plan ahead. I do endorse the option of hanging up the fish.

This is not useful. Having claimed does not excuse you from playing the game.

You also need to submit to the idea that you're going to be told who, if anyone, to kill. Otherwise you're a detriment to the town, and vigs who screw the town don't last very long.

If we don't lynch scum today, for instance, you better not go vigging anyone willy-nilly.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I'm not advocating that plan, although I do think there's a good possibility that Fishy and you are both scum.

You weren't advocating that plan? But it surprises you that nobody else has advocated for it?

If there's three scum total, then we go into the last day with one scum and two or three pro-town players (depending on if we have Vig-kun strike night after next), and it will be easier to find the last scum.

However, if only one of us is scum, and there's three scum total, then killing all three of us screws town. The doc would have to get lucky for the town to win.

The bolded part sounds an awful lot like, say, advocacy. Especially when you consider that you just said that you do believe that both Fishy and I are scum.

You know what might have worked better? Saying "I think that Drake and Fishy are scum," and voting for one of us. You know: making a case.

In any event, I'm pretty sold on the idea that you, I, and Fishy are merely townies swept up in the tide of unfortunate circumstances and that the lurkers deserve more attention.

Unvote, Vote: Looker

.

For an aggressive amount of active lurking, a complete dearth of actual content, and the continued insistence that people are making posts that are too long.

[DraketheFake]

O and when did I say people were making posts that were too long?

Well...

I say stick wit fishy - his posts are HUGE!!!

There.

suppose you thought I were scum - how would you go about confirming your suspicions? would a pressuring vote suffice you or would you be dissatisfied until you ascertained a humungous post of humungous words...?

There.

THAT'S what I meant! The humungous post with the humgous words!

Anyway, why isn't anyone voting? You can vote for me if you like. I don't mind.

And there.

[DraketheFake]

That's a pretty weak case you've got there, Net. I just don't see anything extraordinary about any of Jere's play except the most recent thing, which looks to me more like a townie trying to hedge his bets on saying "I think these two players are scum" rather than any sort of malicious thought process. Sure, he's chaining lynches, but he made himself a part of that chain, which is WIFOM, sure, but it's also going to backfire if we go along with it because we're probably going to go after him first, and if he flips scum then the whole thing gets called off. That's a pretty big risk to take, isn't it?

I still like Looker. Howard's been flying under for me, too, so I'll go ahead and take another look-see at him.

[DraketheFake]

DtF doesn't strike me as "good" since he comes immediately to Jere's rescue. Hypothesis 1:
DtF is mafia hoping to

bring down Jere for crappy play if/win Jere flips scum.

Hypothesis 2:
DtF is mafia defending scum buddy Jere.
Hypothesis 3:
DtF is stupid town defending scummy looking Jere who may or may not be mafia.

This is in order of least to most likely from my perspective.

Therefore, I want Fishy lynched, but if we irregardless do or do not lynch fish, I will shoot DtF tonight. If we lynch DtF, I will probably shoot Fish, as with 9 alive, I see no mathematical reason not to shoot tonight.

Your first hypothesis, as written, doesn't even make sense. And if those are in order from least to most likely, then why are you shooting me tonight if the most likely option, in your opinion, is that I'm "stupid town?" You're talking foolishly here. The main thrust of my post to Netlava was that his case was weak, not that JereIC has played so wonderfully. The fact that you see no reason not to shoot tonight leads me to believe that, at best, you're a complete detriment to the town, and the fact that you seem so heavily tunneled on three players leads me to believe more sinister things about you.

Unvote, Vote: Light-kun

.

- Drake hasn't responded to my case since I clarified it- Drake, I think that between your unvote of DDD and your vote on freeko, it is completely unclear why you changed your mind. His withdrawal (to some extent) of suspicions on me could be genuine, or could be an attempt to make me less suspicious of him. I lean towards the latter because of his extremely easy switch to a lurker- it smells like he wants to change his vote, and has looked for the easiest way out. I'm still happy with my vote.

I'll take a look at this next. But I think you're being a little obstinate, given that you made the same judgment on freeko.

[DraketheFake]

You are actively harming your case against DDD.

You read like a scum desperately trying to get a townie lynched, or a hopelessly tunnelled townie.

Ugh. This this this.

But I don't know that I agree with your vote. It seems that both instances are equally likely, and freeko is the sort of hypothetical townie that a scum being wagoned love to have pop up. Which isn't a strike against DDD, obviously, but these sorts of interactions are rarely good for the town unless he really is just a scum playing in a bizarre fashion.

Does anyone besides me see that pacman281292 is lurking to the extreme? He has not posted since last Sunday I believe. He also fails to acknowledge the accusations voiced by me, as well as by Amished.

Yes, we all see it. We're all aware he's lurking. Everybody in the thread. Your continued hyper-focus on a player who hasn't bothered to defend himself against your accusations as a result of lurking smells a little bit like making a safe case against somebody in order to appear active and avoid re-drawing attention that was on you initially. But I can't say I'm fond of pacman's absence either.

Unvote

for now. Howard, some more thoughts from your corner would be appreciated along with pacman's.

The unvote post.

I still dislike freeko's play. He is tunneled on Debonair Danny DiPietro, barely remarks to points against him, and misrepresents players.

Oh, do enlighten us on how I am misrepresenting players.

that Freeko's desperation

That is wrong.

I dont care if I am lynched. Information will be gained from it. Mostly that DDD is a bag of crap and has played that way the entirety of the first day. Then you have teh second wave of morons that will say that my argument lacked merit. Which means that by using my logic and reasoning to put someone else's lack thereof on display is a bad play.

This goes against everything this game is about. That DDD backtracks on himself many times to qualify himself as a town player tells me that he is telling a lie. He is telling himself and everyone else this same lie in hopes that people wille ventually believe it.

Also, you have the third wave of morons that bother actually play the game and pretty much try to snipe from the sidelines at every chacne possible. Just look at how many of them there are. Finally you have those who dont even bother to play the game like pacman (gone for about a week now) with nothing more than a fleeting suspicion on him. At least next time I know when I join a game , that I shouldnt actually play it.

I think I'm probably going to like this player group.

You havent had the (dis?)pleasure of playing with me yet.

Should be fun times had by all in this game.

Oh, how fitting. I just didn't think that you were actively going to campaign to make my stance wrong.

I dont care if I am lynched. Information will be gained from it. Mostly that DDD is a bag of crap and has played that way the entirety of the first day. Then you have teh second wave of morons that will say that my argument lacked merit. Which means that by using my logic and reasoning to put someone else's lack thereof on display is a bad play.

Kindly point to some logic and/or reasoning that you've used. All I've seen you do is flail away at the words "backpedaling" and "qualifying" for three pages.

This goes against everything this game is about. That DDD backtracks on himself many times to qualify himself as a town player tells me that he is telling a lie. He is telling himself and everyone else this same lie in hopes that people wille ventually believe it.

I don't even know what you're getting at anymore, given that this statement doesn't make sense. I mean... of course he's telling us he's a town player? He's trying not to get lynched? You'd actually need to provide some specific examples of where he's acted as "not a town player" to prove that he was lying, and you seem content to offer glittering generalities.

Also, you have the third wave of morons that bother actually play the game and pretty much try to snipe from the sidelines at every chacne possible. Just look at how many of them there are. Finally you have those who dont even bother to play the game like pacman (gone for about a week now) with nothing more than a fleeting suspicion on him. At least next time I know when I join a game , that I shouldnt actually play it.

Yeah, nothing more than a fleeting suspicion. It's not like more than half of the players in the game haven't pointed it out or anything.

I dunno, man. I find your accusations here fairly baseless and I find the way you're self-destructing to be pretty unfortunate if indeed you are a town player (an issue I guess you won't bother addressing for fear of being called on your own crap logic about claimed town players).

How is an opinion a misconception?

Becuase a dumbass like you needs to be set straight. It is not a misconception. It is flaot out WRONG. You could star the game by naming coolors. Hell you could play duck duck goose. More to the point, the random voting stage (RVS) is NOT the only way to start a game. I could think of a few ways to start a game without a single vote being cast easly int he game but that might be too much for your limited brain capacity to handle.

Way to take an incomplete statement and attempt to pass it off as a lie. Now that you had me look you over again, I find this piece even more suspect.

I don't see any note from orangepenguin about flavors.

Do you have more information that the majority of us do?

Well done Skimzilla. Some of us actually read the part about this being

ANTARCTIC Mafia

. Some of us even read the opening flavor. So yet again another numbnuts that needs to pay attention to the game instead of being Sir Skims Alot. You must have been put in the microwave one too many times by your parents when you were younger werent you?

Give Slim Shady here some time, I'm sure he'll get to spewing aggression and personal attacks at everybody else in due time.

Though to be fair your concentration on the facts that Howard is A. Newer to the game and B. A replacement really have no bearing on what you're voting freeko for.

Did you really just ignore the brunt of this page's posts in favor of ad homming our newer replacement?

Really?

The brunt of this pages posts are made by people who if you took their combined IQ and added them up. You would probably still need to add a few more to get to my show size. Sadlt for the rest of the town I just dont really care at this point and will take the time out to smell the roses and insult everyone I can. So when I spot something stupid, you can bet I will take care of it. I could probably do a neat little comparison about how many times DDD has backtracked on himself compared to me (4 to 0 for those keeping score). Maybe I could count the number of times that DDD has lied to himself and everyone else here to say he is a "town player" (at least 5 blatant attempts by him to 0 from me) Since I know the only way alignment is proven at this point in the game is by being flipped.'

So if I am going to be lynched. Im going to be lynched for being an ass to everyone. NO one really cares about my alignment in the game anyway. Just dont say I am not an equal opportunity insulter.

And I in turn would direct Mr. DiPietro to my posts 276, 283, and 289 to answer my part of that question. I unvoted in 276, for reference.

Personally, I'd prefer if we got someone to replace freeko who appeared to give a crap about playing this game even under pressure from other players rather than just lynching him outright, as his behavior is detrimental and unfair to whichever side he's on. But failing that, I'd be fine loosing him of the burden of being alive in this game.

So there, in Post 303, I mention that I'll be happy to vote for him. After several responses to his other posts and so forth.

If he can't post a rational self-defense soon I'll probably vote him.

Go ahead and vote then. Nothing I do is ever rational. Or save your weak ass excuses for D2 when you have to answer for them.

I am certain freeko is a horribly anti-town player, and think there is a very good chance he is scum.

Wrong. Instead you just want to puch that easy mislynch along dont you. Now you earn the random insult of the post for the reminder of the brilliance in your post. Why would I as a scum player want to have people voting for me jackass? Seems kind of counterproductive doesnt it? No, instead I am perfectly fine with being lynched. Its going to make for a fun D2 with everyone having to explain themselves as to why they voted for me.

I would like na85, Drake, Amished, JereIC, and ZEE to let us know what they think of freeko's complete and total meltdown lately and if/why they feel more comfortable with their votes where they are right now.

Now who has tunnel vision? If you arent scum this game, then I really have to reconsider ever playing this game ever again.

For what its worth I should pm the mod right now with who I think is what roles in sort of a time capsule. We can see either how right or how wrong I am after the game. WIth so many morons like you running around in this game, I really dont care what happens to me. I am not going to backtrack on anything like a certain someone has repeatedly done to make themselves "look" town oriented. The only one aside from these 3 retards that I have not mentioned that will most likely be scum is light-kun. Since you think I had a "meltdown" from attempting to deal with your overall stupidity, I will just sit back and let you retards lynch me. It might be more fun watching this game from the sidelines anyway when you morons have to justify your stupidity D2.

freeko's "give-up" post. That "Nothing I ever do is rational" sure doesn't look like some tongue-in-cheek jab to me.

And I'm sick of quoting but in my next post I vote him and in the very next post after that I'm all

Why would I as a scum player want to have people voting for me jackass?

Forgot this gem. As a scum player you wouldn't want to have players voting for you, which means that you might

stop being an abrasive douchebag and actually play the goddamn game

in order to avoid having even more votes put on you. And no, repeatedly whining about DDD "backpedaling" doesn't count as playing.

So I mean, I don't know where you're getting your little case from is what I'm saying.

[DraketheFake]

Actually, that still doesn't make any sense. You think I'm scum hoping that, once I flip scum, you'll think Jere is scum because of his crappy play and lynch him because I said he was playing oddly?

The rest of my post deals with the fact that you're apparently too simple to understand that if we mislynch today and you shoot another townie while the Mafia kill a townie, WE'VE LOST THE GAME. And that even if we lynch scum, you shooting a townie while the Mafia does too puts us back in the same situation we are today. And that you therefore need to stop planning like you're going to shoot someone tonight unless the rest of us tell you who it is.

[DraketheFake]

This looks scummy.

And honestly, if I were to say: "I will do exactly as the town wants," then I'm still not held by some spell that forces me to react in any particular way, right?

The only way to confirm vigilante is to have him shoot himself. That is kind of my point Jazz. I know what's best for town, and even if I were to appease you and say, "Of course I'll do what the town wants" then it doesn't mean anything.

Having pointed that out: Whatever 50% of the town wants.

I still say we lynch Fishy.

I can't imagine a possible motive for you being this wishy-washy about this except that you are not a part of the town.

[DraketheFake]

You quoted the part where I pointed out a major flaw in it, and said a townie wouldn't consider "this."

Which... makes it odd that you were considering it.

[DraketheFake]

Given that many players in the game will be penguins, and there are only so many species of penguin, I think it would be (slightly) beneficial for the town if claims consisted of species as well as role. There would be a possibility of species counterclaim, since it seems fair to assume that each role has a unique species. The benefit is small, but I can see no disadvantage.

This is a good idea. L-k, what is your species?

[DraketheFake]

Can we go ahead and lynch Light-kun yet?

DDD was a brilliant choice, by the way.

[DraketheFake]

HR, DtF, were you pushing LK to claim species for the same reason?

Yes. I wanted to see if his species claim would align with his kill method, or if he'd try and claim something he wasn't so we could get a counter-claim.

I don't think we really want to be monkeying with the set-up the way you are, Fishy. For all you know there's only 2 scum, or there are two scum groups, and so on and so forth. When you have a chance to lynch scum I think you do it. We're obviously not going to be able to be certain that L-k will follow our commands now, and so I'd rather charge the game to extraordinary town play from here on out than hope that we lynch correctly tonight and that the kills don't go as planned from here on out.

But that's just me.

[DraketheFake]

1st off lynching lk is retarded and and any talk of it should be and will be considered anti town to me.

Care to back this up at all? Or are you just going to make outlandish statements without supporting them?

Speaking of which: do you have anything to actually say about Fishy's conduct? Or is this just the sort of posting we're going to have to get used to from you?

[DraketheFake]

A pro-town vig is a powerful tool, yes. He wasn't counterclaimed, yes. However:

A. He's several times now indicated that he's antsy about following the town's orders.
B. He wouldn't be counter-claimed if there wasn't a role to counterclaim him. Vig is by no means an automatic role.

A killer whale killing by making a small hole in the victim does not make flavorful sense, and the fact that he wouldn't have just species-claimed when he roleclaimed is points off in my book, too. The killer whale reeks of a fake-claim, and the DDD choice seems much more logical to me as an SK kill than a vig-kill after freeko flipped town.

Even if he does end up being the vig, his reticence about following the orders of the town mean we'll control our fate better if he's dead. But I think the chances that he's actually town-aligned at this point are slim-to-none.

Sorry if you felt like I was being rude. It wasn't my intention,

[DraketheFake]

Welp.

I'd still be pretty happy with an L-k lynch.

But Looker could use another look (har) after that last post.

Looks like claiming time, Fish.

[DraketheFake]

Alright nevermind this noise.

I shouldn't be vigged tonight regardless of whether or not Fishy flips scum because I am the

doctor

. My species is

Emperor penguin

. The flavor is that I am the top of the penguin food chain, and can therefore protect all the other penguins.

I protected JereIC last night. I had a very solid pro-town read on him yesterday and was pretty shocked when people started throwing him around today as a top 3 suspect (until he made the post that I agree was suspect). If he flips scum then I will be upset with myself but I'll move on.

You know who I think are scum? The people who lurked through the majority of yesterday: pacman, ZEEnon, and one of Mizz.Mafia/na85, AKA Jazzmyn, Netlava, Howard or Looker. I think the play of Jere, Fish, and myself today makes far more sense for townies than it does for scum or (especially) for scum buddies.

You know why I think Light-kun is the serial killer? Because he didn't claim his species right away, because he tried to get the town all in a tizzy over the second kill before admitting it was his, because the flavor doesn't add up, and because the way he baited na85 yesterday makes a lot of sense from the perspective of a player who wants everybody dead.

If we really can't put a Light-kun lynch together today, then I think we should turn to one of these lurkers and tell L-k not to shoot. If there's only one death (presumably me at this point) then that will lend credence to L-k's claim (but would not rule out a second scum group, only [most likely] SK). If everybody insists on pushing through with the Fishy lynch then that is also fine with me.

That is all.

[DraketheFake]

DtF, what the fuck? I already said I'm not shooting anyone. Damn, you're stupid.

Well, to be fair you'd only just said it after a day of playing coy and acting like you were going to do what you wanted.

I think Fish is a mislynch. Even if he's not, he raises a good point about the wagon on him, and we shouldn't take a lynch so lightly at this stage in the game.

Here's another look at Looker's most recent post:

@LK - You would sound so much more convincing if you were a babbling idiot, but you aren't. You are a highly-intelligent vigilante mastermind, which leads people to distrust you no matter what you put so obvious before their faces.

Hmm...

I say the fish fries

unvote vote: Fishythef**kinfish

and you shoot drakethefrigginfake

So here we have ego-stroking mixed in with near-unintelligible babble, a vote without any kind of reasoning at all, and acquiescence to a plan without forethought that has the dangerous potential to end the game by morning. Wasn't I voting Looker at some point already today? I'm gonna do a look-back at all the people who I listed in that last post and see what is the what.

Unvote

[DraketheFake]

And this is weird too. Drake, why did you tell Fishy to claim and then immediately claim yourself when you did not even have any votes on your except for Fishy's?

Because I didn't want a situation where we had a quick hammer before we set in stone that L-k isn't shooting tonight. Also because we're not in a very good position here and people need to understand that before they carelessly throw their votes around. Also because I think people are more inclined to consider the opinions of a power role seriously.

But yeah I understand what that must look like.

If Fishy is scum, you're scum.

You're a fool/scummy player etc.

[DraketheFake]

Therefore, their post hoc justification strikes me as opportunistic, especially since they've both backed down when other people started criticizing it.

Yeah, because saying "I think L-k should claim his animal so we can see if his animal matches the second kill method" would have been so effective. It's hardly fair to call it "post-hoc" justification when there would have been no other way for us to catch L-k in his lie.

You think the guy's lying about his species in a scummy way, but he's telling the truth about what he's going to do tonight?

I sure don't. But it's nice to hear it, and since the rest of the town seems to want to believe his claim and play Russian roulette between the three of us there's really not a lot I can do. I only just unvoted, I laid out the case against him over and over, and nobody was having any of it. I don't see you voting for L-k at the moment, for instance.

[DraketheFake]

I see no defense here nor do I see a requested claim.

Well then you apparently missed JereIC's post about 4 above yours.

DtF: I might shoot myself tonight just to test your Doc Claim. Anyone object? *Is very angry at the moment, and wants to shoot DtF instead, but won't...*

The way I see it, DtF is the mafia logical kill. If I attempt to shoot myself and the Doc protects me, I live, the Doc dies, I'm confirmed. If the mafia doesn't shoot the doc, and I die because DtF doesn't protect me, then we lose 2 townies,

but get to lynch a mafia member very quickly.

If we're both alive with this, we're both confirmed.

This does, however, require town trusts me to shoot myself, as if I lied, I would be "confirmed" but actually scum. Yes, this is the single hole in my play but, you get the idea.

The bolded section is terrible logic. If we're both alive tomorrow after I protect you and you shoot yourself, then neither of us is confirmed except to each other, barring a tracker or some such. As for the first part: what? If I die and you die because I didn't protect you, and we both turn up town, how does that help lead to a lynch?

I'm against you shooting yourself, because I don't think you should shoot tonight, as I've said over and over. You yourself pointed out the fatal flaw in the plan to "confirm" you, and though I can't think of a better use of my protection I'm not going to WIFOM the town in that way. Besides which, I want the information of whether or not you actually

can

choose not to shoot, and your desperation to be able to shoot strikes me as a pretty clear indication that you are, indeed, a SK.

[DraketheFake]

Three pages since my last post. Sorry about that, long weekend in the bathroom.

i thot i unvoted

unvote

but my opinion still stands until i figure out why i did it...

Really? Really? I understand that you're playing this partially for laughs, but A. We're past that point, and B. This and the "drunk vote" make you look pretty bad.

"Flavour is not allowed to have any grand impact on the game."
Well... we know that flavour is bound to have a slight impact on this one. For example, DtF claimed Emperor Penguin. Now, the scum could have that role- but I doubt it as they are predators. DtF could have fakeclaimed Emperor Penguin as scum, but that's a very famous species of penguin. The chances of a counterclaim would be unacceptably high. So in my opinion his claim is made more believable by the species claim. In a similar way, yours in made less by a species claim which doesn't fit your kill method.
I honestly don't know how much trust to put in flavour. I have no experience of it. Anyway, we will have much more information after tonight, so I see little point talking about your alignment today unless people want to lynch you.
Do you really think a genuine doctor would not counterclaim DtF? I think he almost certainly would.

This post is a pretty good summary of a lot of my thoughts on the argument Jazzmyn and L-k have been making against those of us who think that L-k's claim is almost certainly false based on flavor. The statement "Flavour is not allowed to have any grand impact on the game" sounds like yet another raft being desperately clung to - most, if not all games with multiple killing factions have a way of distinguishing between kill methods, traditionally being split along Mafia = Gun and SK = Knife. Obviously we're dealing with slightly different flavor here, due to the animal nature, but that fact that your species claim has no conceivable way of creating a small red hole, combined with the fact that that you didn't outright claim your species, should make it cut-and-dried for anyone in the town that the claim does not compute.

During the JereIC/Fishy interaction on 26, I don't like the way JereIC basically posts the blueprint for fakeclaiming, continuing to point to the Krill-Commuter role as the gold standard of flavor not mattering in this game. I also don't like the way Fishy appeals to JereIC not to leave the hammer in the hands of a "drunk voter," and I think JereIC's response is spot-on. However:

Net- To make my position clearer, I think LK is pro-town, and is clumsily trying a lie that he thinks will expose scum. I think it's worked to an extent. With respect to the part of the kill-'em-all discussion you quoted, that actually makes sense. I'll concede the point.

This is a completely ridiculous backtrack, or else I didn't read carefully enough the first time. More on that in a minute.

Tubby's 641 is a bad, bad post. He starts with a joke, attempts to extract real analysis from this game's RVS, then says "I really do not like your posts they are very DDD like where you say a whole lot but you are not telling me anything" without referencing anything specific. He also says:

No the doc would never counter claim if he is smart because once he is exposed he cannot protect himself and scum kills him then our faithful cop will have no protect for when he claim a guilty,,

You have played this game before right??

I suppose as the Doc I may be a bit biased based on the fact that I did this, but this is a pretty critical day for us given the numbers and the relative likelihood that L-k is telling the truth. I guess the whole "Me-claiming-out-of-the-blue-as-scum" thing relies on Fishy being scum and me trying to distract, and since I don't believe that to be true it's a tough sell. Other than that you're also making the assumption that the town even has a cop.

Fishy, the emperor penguin=doctor doesn't make any sense. Either he's lying or the flavor doesn't make sense. This means that either he and I are both scum, or flavor is bs. Since you still think I'm scummy due to flavor, but haven't said anything about him except defense. Why do you prefer him? Because he's your scum partner.

Reads pretty frustrated to me. A third option obviously exists: that I'm not lying and that the flavor does make sense. What would have made sense for the "doctor" role in this game? A penguin with a med kit? You're grasping at pitiful straws here, and I can't believe nobody else is calling you on it.

- An interesting point on the killer whale. I had merely been thinking of it as something that couldn't hold a gun. But I don't quite understand- you thought L-k was lying when he claimed his species, as did I. This discussion is about whether it's plausible I predicted this. His actual claim isn't all that relevant.

It's relevant because your case seems manufactured. Let's say you are pro-town, and suspect LK of being anti-town. You press him to claim species. Your theory is that if he is anti-town, he will have a bad-sounding species, and so may claim a cuter-sounding species. Therefore, you see two possibilities: (1) he claims to be a harmless species, in which case you press the case because he clearly isn't harmless, or (2) he claims to be a human hunter, in which case he hasn't lied and you have to press him another way. Then, when LK went for "(3) killer whale," you would have been surprised: his claim doesn't fit into either course you anticipated, so you can't go after him yet, but you can't just move onto to a different test. In this case you would have pressed him on his claim, and tried to figure out if he was joking, had unusual flavor, was a particularly ballsy scum, or something else.

In the real world, you said we should lynch him (although maybe not immediately). You're not behaving like the pro-town player in my hypothetical situation, which means you either have different motives (such as neutralizing an anti-mafia player with killing ability) or extra information (like you're a cop/sk-hunter and investigated LK last night). You haven't dropped any hints about being a cop, so it's more likely you have motives that aren't those of a pro-town player.

This is another false dilemma, and one that you sort of admit is one in the very same post. The words "you're not behaving like a pro-town player in my hypothetical situation" should never be used in a serious case.

Net strikes me as pro-town: his case against me and for you may be weak, but I think he honestly believes it.

Yeah, this doesn't make a ton of sense either.

And the problem with your idea that L-k is running some kind of gambit to catch scum is precisely that

you'd think L-k would have gone ahead and mentioned that by now

, since that's the main charge of everything that's happened today. You trying to give him an out like this is unbelievable, and the fact that he hasn't taken it means that you're just plain wrong, and for you to continue to maintain that he's lying BUT pro-town is absurd.

L-k's 658: Filled with more terrible logic (the JereIC/Fishy scum/not scum shell game), ad hom (in the balls? Really?), and needless speculation on a third killing role.

Looker's 661: To be expected, I suppose.

ok so since noone else wants to hammer the the fish I will

unvote

and i reserve the right to hammer if someone else decides to vote for the fish

You... unvoted so that you could hammer? But still think Fish is the best lynch?

You know, come to think of it, it's essentially Nuwen's fault that 2/3 of the players in this game have only wanted to talk about the overlap on the freeko/DDD wagons today.

I'm going to do Jazz's posts in a separate, individual analysis. I'll say this, though: it's not helping that our replacements today have been so hopelessly tunneled (Jazz on the Nuwen trio of me, Jere and Fishy, Netlava on Jere, tubby on Fishy, and Looker on saying things that don't make sense.)

As far as this page, Looker.... yeah I don't know either. I hope alcohol was involved in that post, though due to generally correct grammar I have my doubts.

[DraketheFake]

You know who else's posts in isolation everybody should read? Jazzmyn's. I'm working on a larger post, but her 692:

Looker, your 677 made no sense, and you were asked repeatedly to explain it, and you haven't. Frankly, the only conclusion I can draw from your recent posts is that you are a mafia goon trying to protect Fishy from being lynched, which leads to the conclusion that Fishy is one of your scum partners with a more powerful role than your own.

Regards,
Jazz

Is an extremely scummy post indicative of her strategy all day. She has repeatedly refused to consider anybody but me, Fishy, or Jere to be scum (except for in her replace-in catch-up post, the reasoning in which she barely ever mentions again), and when she does allow that other players might be acting scummy - as she did above - she uses that as reasoning why her target, Fishy, must still be scum.

Longer post forthcoming.

[DraketheFake]

I think he probably meant that he defended himself against the deeply flawed accusation.

That long write-up on Jazzmyn is coming in a bit while I procrastinate writing my end-of-year papers. Looker's riding pretty high up my list as well.

[DraketheFake]

Alright. Let's goddamn do this.

In Jazzmyn's first content-ful post (367), she fingers ZEEnon, me, Light-kun, and Howard.

ZEEnon later, after having said that he was not going to quit the game, did just that without any notice in the thread at all. He just disappeared. The overall impression of ZEEnon that I am left with is that he was most likely scum who just couldn’t take the heat of having a wagon on him.

Drake:

His first 14 posts were ostensibly all joke posts. That's a lot of joke posts. Mind you, they led to ZEEnon's meltdown and if ZEEnon is scum, as I suspect he is, that's not a bad result. But still, something seems not quite right here. Very soon after his lengthy series of joke posts, Drake moved quickly to DDD, and seemed to focus on DDD pretty much exclusively from that point forward, but the suspicions that he levelled at DDD seem somewhat contrived to me. Then in his post 23, Drake says that DDD still thinking that ZEEnon is scum is suspicious. That seems off to me because it sounds like Drake saying that he KNOWS that ZEEnon is town, which he couldn't know unless he is scum.

Then Drake tells DDD that he "despises" softclaims by townies saying that they 'win with the town', accuses DDD of being 'schizophrenic' for accusing ZEEnon of tunnelling, (pretty strong language there - "despises" and "schizophrenic" - in circumstances that do not call for such extremes) and says that DDD was "buddying up" to Drake and Light. (again, what makes Drake so sure that Light is town, which he couldn't know unless he is scum?) In other posts to DDD, Drake also utilizes the false dilemma fallacy and offers another soft defence of Light-Kun before turning his sights to freeko eventually when it appears inevitable that that's the way the wind is blowing.

Light-Kun:

Another one who seemed to make rather disingenuous accusations against DDD on Day 1, without backing them up. Then there was that weird and unduly hostile post he made to na85 that just seemed to come out of left field. Subsequently, he seemed to side with freeko for a while before eventually voting for him, even though freeko was the scummiest player by far (despite having ultimately flipped town). Something definitely seems "off" about Light's Day 1 play but I'm not getting a "Omg, he's scum, lynch him immediately" feel from it at present. ZEEnon and Drake are pinging slightly louder.

Howard:

Not enough to go on yet, due to his predecessor, so I have to keep him in the top tier of my suspect list at present, by default.

Most of this feels fair to me. There are individual points in the case against me that I don't like, but her point about my 14 joke posts (which I counted upon her notation of them, much to my chagrin) is solid and there's nothing horribly out of line. What I don't like is her treatment of Howard, and what she says about him the player could apply to a smattering of different players in the game at this point. But that's pretty minor, too.

Her next post, 407:

Regarding Light-Kun's vigilante claim, it's plausible and it is certainly testable, so we should be able to ascertain soon enough whether he really is town aligned or not. But I think that we should test LK to ensure that he will follow town consensus, whether that consensus is to take out a particular target tonight or to no-kill tonight, rather than have him act alone.

I don't know what a "prisoner's dilemma" is so I'm going to have to look that up before I'll be able to understand the post that referred to that scenario.

Regarding the paired wagons, from my review, the "shift" appears to have begun at post 271.
As of post 270, the votes were 4 on DDD (Drake, freeko, Jere, Fishy)and 3 on freeko (DDD, Howard, Light).
In post 271, Fishy switched from DDD to freeko, making it 4-3 in the opposite direction.
Then Drake and Jere both unvoted DDD.
Then, Nuwen, Drake and Jere voted freeko (with Howard unvoting and re-voting freeko in between Drake's and Jere's votes)
So, those who switched from the DDD wagon to the freeko wagon were Fishy, Drake and Jere.

Nary a comment on L-k's conduct at the beginning of the day - which I still find completely contrary to the idea that L-k is a pro-town vig - coupled with acceptance of the claim. The rest is just a basic re-hash of the detailed analysis that Nuwen posted of the wagons yesterday, boiling it down to just the vote-switches that, conveniently, finger Fishy, me, and Jere.

At the end of her 418:

There is overlap among Fishy, Drake and Jere on the early DDD wagon and the late freeko wagon. On the early DDD wagon were 1, Drake; 2, freeko; 3, Jere; and Fishy came later at #4. On the late freeko wagon were 4, Fishy; 5 Nuwen; 6, Drake; 7 Jere. I think it most likely that there is scum among the overlap.

In her next post she chides Hohum (now Netlava) for his lack of contribution and welcomes Looker.

In the post following she agrees with most of what L-k said about Fishy but says she needs to re-read me and Jere. She pokes Hohum and Looker again.

In her 477:

I find the case against Fishy more compelling than the case against Drake, although I get a scum-vibe from both of them. Yet, they are currently voting against each other. Pretty bold bussing if they are both scum.

I plan to do a re-read today in order to firm up my thoughts, update my game notes, and cast a vote.

@Looker, you have yet to contribute anything to the game since replacing. Please give us your thoughts and input on the game so far.

Still stuck on two players, even as she chides the lurkers and admits that voting for each other would be "bold."

Her 515:

Upon re-reading, I still think that there is scum among Fishythefish, DraketheFake and JereIC, largely due to the vote analysis. Of the three, I find Fishy the most suspicious, not only for the voting pattern and his role in steering the wagons, but also for being so quick to accept Light_Kun's Vig claim and for being so against the idea of having the town direct LK's night kill or no-kill, purporting to prefer to let him choose independently, despite the fact that we need to test Light-Kun's claim since he could just as easily be a SK as a Vig. (And then a couple of weeks later Fishy posted, apropos of nothing and only after the hot light of suspicion had been directed to himself, that 'incidentally', he is no longer in favour of letting LK choose his own kill. That looks to me like Fishy realizing that he needed to backtrack in order to attempt to look more like a townie.)

Netlava's 'case' on JereIC is about a weak a case as I have ever read. While I do find Jere's "kill em' all" idea to be rather bizarre, the rest of Netlava's case is based upon her personal bugaboos about the choice of wording that Jere uses, and I just don't see his word choices as scumtells. As noted above, I do think that there is scum among Fishy, Drake and Jere,

but the rationale put forward by Netlava is strange and possibly indicative of scum just trying to manufacture a case on a player who has suspicion directed at him by others.

Looker comes across as useless, and potentially scummy. Why replace into a game if you have no intention of participating meaningfully in the game?

It's very annoying and in my (admittedly somewhat limited) experience, it more often turns out that the lurking replacement is scum than town.

In the result, at present I am inclined to vote for Fishy today.

First, however, I would like LK to confirm that he is still in agreement with taking direction from the town as to his night action, including whether or not to take any such action.

This is where I begin to get really interested. Jazz here is still pretty sure that there is scum to be found between Fishy and Jere and I (back up to three), but actually mentions some scummy behavior by other players in the game. I bolded those sections. I don't think her section on Fishy's response to L-k's claim makes a ton of sense, and this here is also the first time she directs even a modicum of suspicion at L-k since her first post: which looks like the same sort of backtracking of which she is trying to accuse Fishy.

In 530 she has a detailed back-and-forth with Fishy, which you can read if you're interested. She declares her intent to vote for Fishy pending a votecount, then posts to say she realized that Fishy has only one vote, but will wait until he returns from V/LA to do so, which seems overly cautious to me.

Her 592:

I still think there is scum among Fishy, Drake and JereIC. As I said previously, Fishy is most suspicious to me. He went V/LA for a bit, which is the only reason I didn't vote him sooner (see prior posts) but nothing he has posted since his return has changed my mind.

DDD was shot. This is a pretty strong flavour argument- killer whales simply do not shoot people. I suppose it is possible that the mod decided the mafia kill method would be in keeping with the situation, but the vig's would not. However, it seems fairly unlikely.

It seems equally unlikely that townies would not all be penguins, and bizarrely unlikely that some of them would be krill. And yet freeko flipped townie krill - not only un-penguin, but the main staple of Antarctic penguins' diet.

Your insistence that the flavour makes LK's claim "very likely false" is very odd in these circumstances. Same goes for Drake.

Vote: Fishythefish

FoS: Drake

I agree with those who think that we should direct LK to not kill tonight.

Welcome aboard, Tubby.

Also, this thread needs more Netlava and more Looker.

Still most suspicious of the same three players? Check. Still calling out lurkers? Check. I won't begrudge her her interpretation of the flavor argument, but I think her heavy insistence that other interpretations of the argument are scummy is scummy in and of itself.

In her 608 she takes issue with Looker for - of all things - changing a meaningless section of a quote and inserting mild swearing into both my and Fishy's names. She's continued to find Looker's play suspect recently, like the rest of us, but as I pointed out RE: her most recent post, she tried to make it out that Fishy was still scum because only a scum with a "less powerful role" would act the way Looker does.

So the accumulated crimes:
1. Tunneling.
2. Tunneling.
3. Tunneling.

(Har.)

I actually might find this sort of replace-in conduct okay if she hadn't essentially been parroting what Nuwen first set forth all day, with minor asides to lurkers who - once they finally began to attract attention - were dealt with my incorporating their actions into the case against her current squeeze. It's her initial suspicions that make me suspicious: the fact that she never again mentions ZEEnon's many replacements' conduct specifically in context of continuing to be suspicious of that player chain, and the fact that she seems so ready to accept L-k at his word, and especially that she felt the need to feebly finger Howard at the beginning of the day.

People seem to have forgotten, however, that there are non-flavor based reasons as to why Light-kun was deemed suspicious and even ever had to claim. I'm going to bring those back to the forefront in a minute. And then there's still the problem of Looker.

[DraketheFake]

My first guess is serial killer, third guess vig, and beyond that; I have no idea why we have a second death. Hm... under the assumption of a 3 person mafia team and 1 serial killer, we might be in a bit of trouble tomorrow. With a vig, we could instruct their actions. And if we're lucky, assuming sk, the sk might listen as to, at least, appear to be vigilante. This could be useful for the time being if nothing else.

Other than that, I can't think of a reason for the kill. Except for some bizzare (though allowed) role like...naive doctor or something.

This is the first post by a living player on D2. Now what on

EARTH

is the VIGILANTE, a pro-town POWER ROLE, doing posting something like this? His first guess: serial killer. I repeat: the claimed Vigilante's first guess is SK. He has "no idea" why we had a second death. Hm... under the assumption of a 3 person mafia team and 1 serial killer, we might be in a bit of trouble tomorrow... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Hey look, he sets the bait of "At least if it's a vig we can instruct their actions"! What a guy! And hey, hey look! If it's an SK, he might listen to us anyway to APPEAR TO BE THE VIGILANTE! Great advice, kiddo. Too bad you spoiled such a helpful post with your idle set-up guessing about a Quack, hoping that maybe the doctor also targeted one of the dead players by chance and is now questioning his sanity.

Also: Very angry at Freeko's lack of a claim.

I think I have an idea on who's scum. I'll read them in isolation later/tomorrow and post thoughts then.

Hand-wringing! Mysterious suspicions!

I disagree Howard. It tells us that there is a second killing role out their. So, we can keep our minds open to the possibility that a serial killer is roaming, which means watching for someone who seems particularly scummy but isn't connected to anyone else.

...

I disagree Howard. It tells us that there is a second killing role out their. So, we can keep our minds open to the possibility that a serial killer is roaming, which means watching for someone who seems particularly scummy but isn't connected to anyone else.

It's in a serial killer's best interest to play with the town during the day. A scum lynch and townie lynch both have the same value towards an SK's win condition, but actively scum-hunting has the added bonus of garnering town support and possible doc protection.

LA until Monday or Tuesday, one of my desktop's disk partitions shit out. My other partitions have experimental crap on them that I don't want to deal with, so I'll be sitting on my hands until my shiny new laptop arrives. I must also take time to mourn my lost Vig comics.

Interesting theory, but we should still be wary of possible serial killer.

You know what I realized this all is? Setting up for his argument later that there was a cross-kill.

Also:
Howard, I'm slightly bothered that you think knowing or speculating of a vig, sk, or second mafia group doesn't help us now. It offers us a warning as to what we might be fighting. Though, I think that a second mafia group is rather unlikely, we should be wary of a Serial killer or whatever. If its vig, hm.... what should we do assuming vig? Act as though we have two votes? The serial killer might listen though I highly doubt the mafia (if there are two) will.

See? See? Why would a pro-town player, already thinking the way we want him to, post this? Why not claim right away: Hi, I'm the Vig, this is my species, I offed DDD for the obvious reasons. Direct me. He even already seems to know that we're basically in lylo if he misfires.

Nuwen's got a post in here I don't much care for, either:

The variety of possible setups makes discussing the kills

more

important, not less. If we have a vig (or even an SK to barter with), we increase our capacity to policy lynch without fear. Determining the motivations for each kill is important.

Danny's kill, for example, looks like the work of a vig - I doubt a smart scum team would have killed a player who earned heavy suspicion on day 1.

I need to do a reread as well; almost all of my pair/team predictions hinged on Freeko flipping scum.

The bold section is so much WIFOM. Light-kun made a similar point about doubting there was a second scum team.

When you add to this mess the fact that the flavor doesn't align, and that Light-kun has repeatedly played coy with agreeing not to kill tonight, and that he wouldn't claim his species right away, well, I just don't understand why we didn't string him up 9 pages ago.

Vote: Light-kun

. Shit doesn't make sense, b.

[DraketheFake]

Objection! Coaching the witness.

Your inability to parse out a reasonably simple compound statement and your subsequent attack when I tried to point out that it was obvious make me think you were, indeed, intentionally misrepresenting his statement.

I object. You have not proven that normal scum tells, such as "scum claim their kills" and "doctors praise themselves" apply to me. Claiming book won't cut it.

What? Are you actually suggesting that scum only make normal scum tells? Or that "doctors praise themselves" is a

scum

tell?

Or are you merely trying to dodge a slew of accusations by telling me that you won't respond to them unless I prove that they're "normal scum tells?"

Because either way you're ridiculous.

Also, suggesting I don't calculate for every possibility is stupid... that is to say, if I wasn't pressed to claim, I would not have. Therefore, saying a vig would insta-claim his kill is completely moronic. I figured that by painting this up to sk, the mafia wouldn't look for usual vig tells from anyone but me. I figure I crossed those out, so if they attack me, they would hack me as sk, but the odds someone out there who is more likely to look like sk than myself seems high. I am usually kept alive afterall. *Sighs* this didn't play out, of course, but was my planned course of action.

Where exactly did I suggest that you didn't calculate for every possibility?

You were pressed to claim because you were obsessed with the source of the second kill and actively attacking players who said we should discuss other things, as well as because of your spotty play throughout D1.

There are two pro-town ways (in my opinion) to play the vig in the position that you would have, hypothetically, if you were the vig. One is to continue to scum-hunt and use your own ability as you saw fit, basically to treat it as a power role. The other was to claim immediately and let the town decide how to proceed. You seemed to be cognizant of the fact that the numbers were looking a little grim if the kills continued at the rate they were, and so I would not have faulted you for coming out to alleviate the stress of where the second kill came from and allow the town players to discuss something else.

I'd expect that normal vig play follows along the first line, but I think the second line is just as pro-town. Your play falls near neither of those possibilities: you actively confused the town by bringing up as many possible explanations for the second kill as you could think of, and then you acted put-upon when people tried to get you to explain why you were so obsessed with it.

Oh, and to get this monkey off the thread's back: It's about time for you to address JereIC's interpretation of why else you might lie about your role claim. If indeed you are not a killer whale, and were trying to draw out scum, now is the time to admit that. Now is also the time to address if you did NOT do this.

How did we get here, when I used to know you so well?

JereIC - 1 (Netlava)
FishytheFish - 3 (Light-kun, JereIC, Looker)
Looker - 3 (HowardRoark, FishytheFish, DraketheFake)

Not Voting - 2 (tubby216, Jazzmyn)

Fishy & Looker are both L-2

9 alive, 5 to lynch

-Mod

(Vote Count accurate as of Post 745)

[DraketheFake]

Well, I guess we're just going to have to take it on faith that L-k even can no-kill, since nobody seems as sold on these arguments as me and I've brought them repeatedly to everyone's attention.

After re-processing the post I made about Jazzmyn, and taking into account the play D1 of pacman vs. na85, I think I'm more comfortable going after Jazzmyn right now. No, I don't like Looker's play: however, I find it more likely that Looker's play is that of a badly-playing townie than Jazzmyn's. What do I mean by that? I mean that there appears to be no ulterior motive to Looker's play, just poorly thought-out one-liners and a total lack of contribution. Jazzmyn's continually drum-beating, on the other hand, has done a lot to distract the town from fully considering its options, and I think that that is not accidental.

Unvote, Vote: Jazzmyn

.

[DraketheFake]

BTW, why are you voting for Fishy?

Not the kind of question you want to be asking someone you share a wagon with.

...and...the fish...is still...alive...

This is honestly all you can contribute after calls for a prod?

Unvote, Vote: Looker

.

@Netlava: It's about that time of day where you need to make certain decisions about popular wagons. JereIC: unlikely to be lynched today. Do you really not think that either of Fishy or Looker has acted more suspiciously than JereIC?

[DraketheFake]

Care to expand on that thought?

Sure thing.

As a rule of thumb, I like to be on wagons with people who have what I consider to be legitimate and pro-town reasons for voting for the same person as me, even if they aren't necessarily my reasons exactly. I would take it as a bad sign if there were a lot of players voting for a player I was voting for without giving their reasons, the same way that I would naturally be more suspicious of a vote without stated reasons past the RVS.

Know why you don't know Looker's reasons? Because she hasn't posted any reasonable ones. She's deflecting the way a cocky scum would, and Light-kun leaping to her aid here makes me wonder if he didn't also express consternation over her lack of content.

You seem desperate to make a case against him, and this charge just isn't going to stick.

You know, it's interesting. You've called for Looker to post more content a few times, but nowhere near as vehemently as any of the rest. And now you're defending Looker for no reason other than it's me doing the attacking. Do you really think there's no case against Looker? Or are you just sticking your neck out for your scum-buddy since nobody else seems to want you lynched?

[DraketheFake]

So, you'd suggest that I get off of Fishy's wagon because I don't know why Looker is on it?

I'd suggest you get off Fishy's wagon if you don't think he's the best lynch for the day. That conclusion could come from any number of reasons. One might be that you suspect that scummier players are the ones wagoning along with you. Right now you're voting for a player in common with someone you suspect of faking a species claim (at the very least end of his suspiciousness) and a player who has yet to post any actual reasoning for why she has ever voted for the player.

[DraketheFake]

Anyway, I can't help it my first vote was the best vote which is why I'm not switching it left and right. Fish is the scum, we've found him, and I think that you're scum.

Right, but you can help it that you haven't provided a shred of analysis to support your claims. Your continued obstinacy in regards to providing any long ago surpassed the realm of the lazy townie.

P.S. I got your pronoun right. Your buddy L-k is the one who implied you were a man.

[DraketheFake]

Welp.

[DraketheFake]

Now, not killing me I understand. But Looker? Looker of all people? Did they think she was a power role, or were they simply trying to give themselves a fair fight?

Grudgingly, I'm willing to cede that the lack of second kill + Light-kun's suspicion of me all day yesterday probably makes it more likely that he's the vig than not. Other than that I'm solid on Netlava's reads, though I'd prefer it if L-k really was town-aligned so that we didn't have to rely on an SK to achieve lynch.

Amazing. You respond to my last post within 9 minutes, but you couldn't reply to my prior post refuting your nonsensical 'case' against me over the course of several days.

Yeah I get the whole "strike while the iron's hot" thing, but your 'refutation' (see what I did there?) of my case relied on a lot of the same types of things you seemed to take issue with in my post about you, in which I interpreted trends I saw in your posting that I'm going to think are there regardless of how many times you cry "misrepresentation." If other people have questions I'll be glad to answer them and point them to other reading on you.

[DraketheFake]

Why is that? Being a non-CCed claimed doctor and not being NKed is understandable? You said that you protected JereIC N1 because he appeared pro-town; who did you protect last night and why?

Because I was still under pretty heavy suspicion at the end of yesterday, especially for the way that I claimed. It's a good WIFOM game for the scum to play, since they figure they can probably kill me at any point, and Looker does indeed make sense from the perspective of me never thinking to protect him. I'm gonna keep under my hat who I protected until I'm sure there isn't going to be a tracker claim of some kind.

I think a species claim first is best.

Agreed. I'd like Jazzmyn to go next.

[DraketheFake]

JereIC's theory was that you were faking a species claim in an attempt to draw somebody else in the game who might be the killer whale out of hiding, i.e. the scum, potentially. He, Fishy, and I were all in agreement that your claim didn't stack up, but JereIC tried to claim after the fact that his interpretation was not that you were faking the claim because you were lying scum, but because you were faking the claim to fish for a counterclaim. I think probably you shouldn't address this until we've had everybody claim their species, so Jazz, get on it.

[DraketheFake]

in this game all of the (pro-town) players are penguins

You seem to have some extra knowledge.

I am in fact a penguin.

This appears to be a town claim.

I was under the impression that the Mafia would also be penguins.

ALERT!!! Change of stance!!! ALERT!!!

This is a misunderstanding at best. My misguided early game flavor assumptions notwithstanding, the second post you quoted there was not intended as a claim but rather a statement of fact: that I was a penguin and was assuming that all players in the game at that point were penguins. It just happened to come out over the course of two posts: I was using the fact that I was a penguin (and a power role penguin at that) to inform the idea that all players in the game were penguins. I'll need to go back and scope out the context, but I'm pretty sure the reason we were talking about this whole thing was the result of the highly joke-y RVS this game had.

he was clearly not deadly serious about the fact that anyone voting for a terrible (town) player was suspicious, because he was doing the same thing.

This is in reference to Debonair Danny DiPietro's voteon Netlava/ZEEnon. This is saying that he knows that Netlava/ZEEnon is town.

This is not saying that, you've taken this out of context as well. This was RE: a misunderstanding Danny and I had about him saying that many terrible players ended up being town, which I took to mean he was calling my play terrible, which incited that whole shitstorm. He also made some post about how players voting for a player just for being terrible were suspicious because of the fact that many terrible players were town, in regards to my vote for ZEEnon, and I was here merely pointing out that he didn't mean that literally because he himself was still voting for ZEEnon.

There isn't alot that I can comment on (in building a case) for a while, except that there seems to be a notable amount of fence riding. For example, at post 472 DraketheFake is voting Fishythefish while asking JereIC "Did... did you just claim scum?" for his "I'm a little surprised that no one has suggested killing us all (DtF, Fishy, and me)" comment, and suggesting that more focus needs to be placed on the lurkers. It was a intersting example of trying to direct focus to almost everyone else.

Heh. Interesting. You admit you're reaching, then reach reach reach for those stars. Do you disagree that the lurkers needed more attention? You didn't seem to think so yesterday.

If everybody insists on pushing through with the Fishy lynch then that is also fine with me.

I think Fish is a mislynch.

Does anyone else see this as either a quick change of stance or riding the fence?

I had no idea these sentiments were this close together, but as best I can piece it together I'm being a bit fatalistic in 602, and the flavor of 605 is that you're all free to lynch Fishy but that I won't be participating. But yeah this is your best point.

No, I don't like Looker's play: however, I find it more likely that Looker's play is that of a badly-playing townie than Jazzmyn's. What do I mean by that? I mean that there appears to be no ulterior motive to Looker's play, just poorly thought-out one-liners and a total lack of contribution.

A prod is sent to Looker and she contributes her usual one-liner post, and . . .

This is honestly all you can contribute after calls for a prod?

Unvote, Vote: Looker.

Do you enjoy throwing garbage to see what sticks? Either way you seem to love riding that fence.

That brings us up to today.

My points still stood on Jazz, but I thought it was important not to isolate myself as the strongest opponent of Fishy's lynch. Since Looker had other suspicion riding on her, and I preferred her lynch to Fishy's, I felt it prudent to switch over. At the end of a long day, the last thing other people want to have to do is orchestrate a whole wagon, and it was those people I was trying to appeal to.

This seems like a pretty weak case, too, but you seem to insist on reaching the conclusion that I'm scummy. I'm a little surprised to see this from you.

As far as the species claim, we do full role-claiming right after. I guess I feel like this gives the scum less chance to just claim a power role off the cuff, and a better chance of getting counterclaimed on species alone.

[DraketheFake]

Mod: Can we get prods on Jazz and tubby, who haven't posted since Day 3 began?

Done and done.

[DraketheFake]

I am a penguin. I pick tubby next.

Remember our early-game discussion of slips? Yeah, this is a slip.

Not that we shouldn't hear the rest of the species claims. We definitely should.

[DraketheFake]

Right, Adelie penguin

is

the species. Since we already know there's more than one penguin type in this game, just saying "penguin" doesn't do much good. The fact that you just said "penguin," rather than being as specific at least as the flavor of the dead Vanilla townies/Jazzmyn right before you, is at least suspect, and very likely means a lapse in attention to claiming that I'd associate with scum. Your most recent post only solidifies my stance.

[DraketheFake]

You would if you'd paid attention when I claimed yesterday.

Not paying attention: my anti-drug.

[DraketheFake]

Hm. With no other power roles, Doc/Commuter/Vig is far more believable than Doc/Commuter/SK, and that plus the no-kill last night further commends the idea that L-k is, in fact, town-aligned.

Right now I'm leaning Jazzmyn or Netlava, with tubby lagging not far behind and JereIC sort of a distant third tier. I'm not putting as much faith in the Netlava "slip" as I seemed to at first, but his play yesterday leaves something to be desired and the players he replaced were pretty awful. I'll put some actual effort into parsing out who I think should go later.

Light-kun, are you in fact a killer whale?

[DraketheFake]

Here and here. I'm coming around on Netlava, but I'd be more than happy to go for Jazzmyn today. I'd like Howard to get back before we start the voting, incidentally: in case anyone was wondering, he's who I protected last night.

[DraketheFake]

I'm happy to get this show on the road.

Vote: Jazzmyn

.

[DraketheFake]

Unvote Drake. We're in a bad enough situation without you voting around without reason.

We gotta pull the band-aid off eventually, my good vig buddy. My vote has plenty of reasoning behind it, and sitting around hemming and hawing and waiting to make sure that everybody has posted their exhaustive views on everybody only benefits the scum, who get to try and cast as much doubt as they please on anything they see fit.

I really can't imagine that Jazzmyn isn't scum. If you're more convinced about somebody else, then have at it.

[DraketheFake]

Unvote

ok i agree with howards plan it seems sound for directing lk if he is willing,

here is what i know,

i am an adelie peguin who is a role cole. i cannot tell alignment but i can tell you what there role is and this is what i found out from two investigations,

nite 1 lk is the vig

nite 2 jereic is townie


i am inclined still to think that netluva is scum,,

and thats all i got

This is such bullshit that I am actually tempted to let you off the hook because there's no way a scum player would be this obvious. What justification did your role PM contain (paraphrasing, please) that would justify you being the Vanilla Townie species but also being a role cop? I don't see any reason for Nuwen to investigate Light-kun in particular, but you obviously can't speak to that. I do understand not investigating me last night, as it seemed reasonably certain that I was going to bite it.

This would, however - assuming there aren't stragglers who still aren't buying my claim - leave Jazzmyn, Netlava, and Howard as the scum. Your role cop claim would "clear" you, JereIC and Light-kun would be cleared by your investigations, and I'm the doctah. Vig/Doc/Role Cop/Commuter doesn't seem unreasonable: but, then, Vig/Doc/Regular Cop/Commuter doesn't seem unreasonable, either. And role cop is definitely a role that the scum might have.

Huh. Ugh. I don't believe there's any way that the species/role deviated for your role specifically. I think you're probably a scum role cop who wasn't smart enough to try and fake a different species. Or just a garden variety scum trying to pull one over. This, of course, will send us to WIFOM hell over whether JereIC is actually a townie or not.

I'm still pretty happy lynching Jazzmyn. At least if we leave tubby alive, he'd have to try and claim another result (which, now that we've claimed species..... wah). tubby seems like a fine way to go, as well.

[DraketheFake]

Hm.

Why do you think he's a role cop at all? We just mass claimed, so it's not that hard to make up a role-cop claim. Tubby's just obvscum in my book - we can deal with the WIFOM hell tomorrow.

I need to go over HR's math, but he may be right that having LK kill now doesn't benefit the town. If I get the same result, I'm just going to vote tubby - may the penguin gods have mercy on his soul.

Well, we mass-species-claimed, and then the game sort of glossed over what might have been the second part (and he went missing). See, we were all

assuming

, and you know what happens when you assume.

As far as L-k, we should probably go ahead and let him shoot. We're likely to be in LyLo the rest of the game even if we hit scum, and using him as a second lynch for today (assuming we get scum both times) would leave us at 3 to 1 tomorrow. L-k is almost guaranteed to make it to tomorrow, and even if he doesn't 3-1 (while technically LyLo) is no worse than 3-2. And if L-k is alive at 3-1, we can afford to mislynch since L-k can take the last scum out.

I'm still comfiest voting for Jazzmyn. I think we should lynch Jazzmyn and have L-k shoot one of tubby and Netlava (whose comment about the lack of quicklynch rings badly to me). So that's what I'm gonna do.

Vote: Jazzmyn

[DraketheFake]

I'm really fighting the urge to get impatient and just vote for tubby. Two votes is much more likely for quick-lynch territory, so with L-k's presumably townie vote this is looking pretty good. I think there's a very good chance that both he and The Replacement are scum. Howard, what are you thinking?

[DraketheFake]

DtF- don't like his stunt with voting for Jazz then claiming to watch the thread like a hawk.

When did I do this?

[DraketheFake]

Right, and he would have made 3.

[DraketheFake]

I've changed my mind: I'd rather try and win this one on the laurels of properly lynching. Using L-k as a second lynch right now only benefits the scum who would have to try and defend themselves tomorrow. The set of circumstances where L-k shooting another scum helps us attain the possibility of a mislynch isn't very likely: or, rather, relies on imperfect knowledge of the set-up. L-k, does it bother you at all that two of the three people voting for tubby are your other top two suspects?

[DraketheFake]

*baited breath*

[DraketheFake]

Sweet, Jazzmyn was scum. I wasn't a total failure this game.

(Too bad I protected Howard ).