Mini 767: Cubic Mafia (Game Over!)

[Mastin]

Hello, there, Channel, caf. I'll be replacing Lind in just a few minutes. (Whenever the mod shoots me the role PM)

In the mean time, I'll be doing a little reading.

[Mastin]

Oh, wow. My predecessor apparently never posted; I can't see an option to select viewing Lind's posts in iso to get a good read on what my predecessor was thinking. I'll have to do my predecessor's predecessor.
(I'm assuming it is Lind that I am replacing, as both Channel and caf are active.)

[Mastin]

Heh. Trumpet looks better than I thought.
Good logic here,

And a solid reason for suspicion here.

Trumpet's post here seems to have good suspects in it, and Knight of Cydonia was defending Madofphail/Channel. If I had to guess right now as to who the last mafia is from what little Iso reading I've done thusfar, it'd definitely be Channel.

[Mastin]

(Keep in mind that as Kai isn't online yet, I haven't gotten my role PM. Don't think that'll change anything; I have a clear town read on Trumpet and would be very shocked if I got a scum PM.)

[Mastin]

Solid Logic, which held at least partially true so far (KoC flipped scum).

I see in This post that Mad was defending KoC, who flipped scum, and as I pointed out earlier, KoC was also defending Mad as well. In Lylo, one would expect scum to defend their partners because, well, it's lylo; if there's a mislynch, scum win.

Ah, so I'll be replacing a Vanilla. Fine by me.

This is also a good case and what I find interesting is that KoC went from defending madof to stating that he wants a Caf lynch (very definite possibility of a mislynch), and yet, Madof is second (which reeks of a weak bus to me).

Again, looking at my predecessor's post here, it would indicate definite bussing. And that would almost certainly implicate Madofphail/Channel as the last scum.

Trumpet's last post before V/LA claimed him I also happen to agree with; Channel is looking fairly bad in my eyes.

[Mastin]

Caf's up next in my Iso-reads. (Then will be Phily-Madof-Channel-those who flipped scum [particularly KoC].) They're rather effective thusfar. It definitely doesn't get the whole message across, but does get rather the majority of it through.

A read shows many instances of solid logic as well. Definite town read. It's harder to point out individual points about it, but caf didn't like the Walnut wagon, was voting for Phily, went after KoC, and Trumpet's points about KoC's attitude suggests to me that caf isn't scum. I doubt reading Channel and predecessors will change this, but I have to be certain.

[Mastin]

Interesting. Phily took FOREVER to remove his random vote on Walnut. (Who flipped town) He also was attacking B_B a good deal (who flipped town), and was dealing a great deal (such as This, although there are many more) with Magnus (who, also, flipped town).

Seeing a pattern?

He also seemed rather casual when answering Isaac, yet against those who flipped town, he seemed more serious. That's what a quick Iso-read tells me about him. Now for madof, who I presume was in the game for the longest of the three with that role.

[Mastin]

If we can find kill patterns (mafia or serial killer or otherwise), we can have more accurate protects if there is a doc.

Hmm...
Anyone else remember what KoC claimed? (Setting up a doctor claim, anyone?)

Yea...looks fairly bad.

A hunch. Nothing more. Just a hunch, for thinking SSK is scum.

1). I'm, quite suprised that my suspiscions have enough pull to start this much conversation. I didn't realize I had such a pivotal role in this game.

Madeof claimed 'nilla...yet this quote seems to be breadcrumbing a power role.

Casts doubt on Seraphim.

If you were town: maybe you have some sort of power role that lets you investigate, and you know ssk is a mislynch, and so don't want to hammer him.

This was 1: Rolefishing my predecessor,
and
2: Possibly a scumslip. If Trumpet was some sort of investigative role pushing for Madeof's lynch, then said investigative role would likely have a guilty, not an innocent on SSK. (Reference: Newbie 742.)

by suggesting that you have info that we don't I was suggesting that you have a power that some of us don't. If you're town that would be role outing. But you could just as easily be scum in my eyes. If you were scum, it would only be natural for you to know who's townie and who's not.

Seems like a poor covering for his actions, a poor explanation for rolefishing.

Furthermore, a role out would only help find scum at this point because it seems to me like all of the town power roles have already been outed. After all, this is a normal setup, and we have a claimed watcher, a confirmed one-shot vig (dead), a confirmed mod-confirmable townie (dead). The only players with extra info are scum. I think that you seemed like you had outside info, and so I had a good reason to suspect that you were scum.

Seems to me, he's screaming,
"Don't claim power role, buddy!"
This was also evidence that Madeof was locked into a 'nilla claim at this point in time, despite having earlier breadcrumbed doctor.

2).on who is scum, although I agree that KoC has been acting oddly, but I want to see what he makes of today before any votes are placed, because as caf stated we could be at lylo right now, and voting wantonly could provide a very bad result. I would suggest unvoting, because if there are two scum then with one vote on someone on a three to lynch day means that as soon as one person votes a townie, the suppossed two scum could jump on and quicklynch for win.

Reeks of weak bussing,

3). I'm not sure who I want lynched yet b/c I don't havce a very strong case on anyone.

And then states he doesn't have anyone who he thinks should be lynched yet because he doesn't have a strong case on anyone,
-Despite having just somewhat agreed on KoC,
-And despite the fact that he had been giving cases previously and seemed to have suspicions against my predecessor.

In addition to that, having no strong suspects in lylo-->A slight scumtell. He should've had daysworth of content for suspicions.

He also attacks B_B (who flipped town) in that same post,

Beyond birthday is assumed town ever since he claimed watcher d2 which got us able to lynch our first scum, Isacc. however, D3 he stated:
Beyond Birthday wrote:
Doesn't matter, I was role blocked making my ability utterly useless until we target the role blocker with our lynch or he finds someone more worthy of his prevention skills.
then today:
Beyond Birthday wrote:
I've got nothing
Which I'm assuming means that he was roleblocked again?

He also never voted in lylo. Off to the third, Channel.

[Mastin]

My gut from the first read is leaning towards Trumpet but I don't want to go on gut at this stage.

Seems rather OMGUS'd, considering Trumpet's suspicions.

I'm trying to decide to what, if any, extent Trumpet's disappearances were a tactic.

Now this is BS. I don't have my role PM yet, but I can say that much. Trumpet is on a very extended V/LA and no longer able to play.

You doubt the sincerity of an extended V/LA?

but the problem is that there's just been so little activity of any kind from Trumpet/Lindisfarne that it's hard to get any kind of contrasting read on him.

This is also BS.

Trumpet had 38 good, long, solid (and with good logic) posts.

Phily had 23 short posts.

Madeof had 17 posts of varying length, mostly about a paragraph or two in length.

You have a grand total of five, none longer than a paragraph, and with only brief summaries on the players thusfar.

Put together, your role outweighs the number of posts by Trumpet by rather some bit.

Individually, though, each of the three in your role haven't had as many posts as Trumpet did.

---

I am agreeing with Trumpet's reads. Channel's likely the last scum.

Channel's opinion reeks of OMGUS to me.

What are your thoughts, Caf?

[Mastin]

Time for a Bandwagon Analysis, from the first vote count onward, counting roles. 'Cause I can, I'm bored, and I'm waiting for Kai to give me my role. (I'll get to iso-reading confirmed scum after this)

Red will represent confirmed mafia, and

green

(not unless I want to be modkilled ) blue will represent confirmed town.

Votecount 1:

Walnut(1)

: PhilyEc

Dourgrim(1)

:

magnus_orion

magnus_orion(1): Riceballtail

Isacc(1)

: caf19

With 12 players alive it's 7 to lynch.

Walnut(1)

: PhilyEc

Dourgrim(2)

:

magnus_orion; Flame

magnus_orion(1): Riceballtail

Isacc(1)

: caf19

Flame(1): Walnut

Riceballtail(2): Beyond_Birthday

; Trumpet of Doom

Beyond_Birthday(1)

:

Isacc

PhilyEc(1):

Dourgrim

Not Voting(2):

Southland; Nocmen

Isaac's voting a now-confirmed clear, Dour's voting Phily (Channel), and Phily's voting Walnut (town). Caf's voting Isaac as well. It's an interesting pattern, to say the least. I do my best analyzing after seeing this in a post, though, so can't make out potential pairings yet.

Votecount 3:

Walnut(1)

: PhilyEc

Dourgrim(1)

:

Flame

Isacc(1)

: caf19

Flame(1): Walnut

Riceballtail(1): Beyond_Birthday

Beyond_Birthday(1)

:

Isacc

PhilyEc(1):

Dourgrim

Southland(1): Riceballtail

Not Voting(2):

Southland; Nocmen; magnus_orion

; Trumpet of Doom

Votecount 4:

Walnut(1)

: PhilyEc

Dourgrim(1)

:

Flame

Isacc(1)

: caf19

Flame(1): Walnut

PhilyEc(2):

magnus_orion

;

Isacc

MafiaSSK(1): Riceballtail

Beyond_Birthday(1): Nocmen

magnus_orion(2)

:

Dourgrim

;

MafiaSSK

Not Voting(2): Trumpet of Doom;

Beyond_Birthday

Votecount 5:

Walnut(1)

: Trumpet of Doom

Dourgrim(1)

:

Seraphim

Flame(1): Walnut

PhilyEc(4):

magnus_orion

; Isacc[/color]; caf19;

Beyond_Birthday

MafiaSSK(1): Riceballtail

magnus_orion(1)

:

Dourgrim

;

Not Voting(3): PhilyEc;

Nocmen; MafiaSSK

Now, THIS is interesting. Phily got a good bandwagon on him, and lived.

Votecount 6:

Walnut(3)

: Trumpet of Doom;

Riceballtail; MafiaSSK

Dourgrim(1)

:

Seraphim

Flame(1): Walnut

PhilyEc(2):

magnus_orion;

caf19

magnus_orion(1

):

Dourgrim

;

Riceballtail(2): Nocmen; Beyond Birthday

Not Voting(2): PhilyEc;

Isacc

;

Note how Isaac (scum) unvoted Phily. There's a strong possibility this was an attempt to avoid Phily (roleblocker, as BB [confirmed watcher] claimed roleblocked) from getting lynched.

Votecount 7 (The 72 hours to deadline votecount):

Walnut(5)

: Trumpet of Doom;

Riceballtail; MafiaSSK

;

Isacc

;

Beyond_Birthday

Dourgrim(1)

:

Seraphim

Seraphim(1): Walnut

PhilyEc(2):

magnus_orion

; caf19

magnus_orion(1)

:

Dourgrim

;

Riceballtail(1): Nocmen

Not Voting(1): PhilyEc;

And this was the last vote count of the day. Isaac switched from Phily to Walnut, a mislynch. Also note how Magnus, the scum nk, was voting for Phily near the end of the day.

---

More analyzing will come after posting this, but I see a clear Phily-scum possibility.

[Mastin]

And, just as expected, I am, indeed, a vanilla townie.

Analyzing the day one bandwagons, and then going to do an iso-read on all confirmed scum players.

[Mastin]

I strongly suspect that both the confirmed scum (Dourgrim, Isaac) were early-on bussing, but later backed off. This is proven by the fact that both had voted Phily, and later switched to other targets and never took those votes off.

Time for the Iso-read of the confirmed scum players. (After that, I'll analyze the vote counts on the other days as well.)

So far, Phily's looking bad, bad, and worse, as time moves along.

[Mastin]

Also, Channel, I saw you just post in another thread; why don't you pay this game a little visit?

[Mastin]

Mod:

LindisfarneTrumpet of Doom

Needs updating. Something like

Mastin

Lindisfarne

[/size=4]Trumpet of Doom[/size]

Or whatever sizes you used for Channel's replacements.

Fixed

[Mastin]

(Whoops. Messed that second size tag up. Ah, well. Got the message across.)

[Mastin]

You'll be waiting a while. I've got a lot to analyze this game.

[Mastin]

Maybe Dourgrim's answer will change my mind, but in the meantime, I think Phil is the strongest suspect. Vote: Phillyec

Reeks of bussing to me. We know about Dour; I wouldn't eliminate a double-buss, either.

unvote until then though, I don't want to lynch before I read what has happened.

Reads to me:
"I don't want my buddy lynched before I can get another person to push against."

Philly has done nothing to make himself seem more town.

Considering what little content I saw from Phily in a quick-Iso-read, I somehow severely doubt this.

This blatantly contradicts with him saying he thought Phily had done nothing but make himself look more pro-town.

Further evidence in my mind that Isaac was trying to buss Phily, yet keep Phily alive.

Despite Phily being his top suspect, he fails to vote for Phily. Fairly condemning, in my opinion.

He also only pointed out that Phily hadn't posted. Yet with the number of replacements on day one, I imagine that rather some number of people hadn't posted much on day one, either.

He drops all Phily accusations due to replacement issues, and votes for the mislynch.
Seems like dropping a bus to me.

Mentions no suspicion of Phily at all--What happened to Phily being one of the scummiest players alive?
Answer: "I don't want to follow through on this bus."

1) Take a look at MadeofPhail. Starts of wanting to discuss night actions (DING DING DING) and then jumps pretty quick on this wagon.

Phily's replacement makes it into his scum list, but for entirely different reasons.

2) I'd watch out for Caf19. Notice his last post says I am the right lynch, but he fails to actually vote me, and asks others' opinions first. Seems like he wants to make sure he's getting on the popular wagon before he commits.

First mentioning of Caf all game...

3) MafiaSSK is another Walnut wagon surprise. I don't really think he ever gave any explanation at all for that vote.

Proven town.
Definitely agree with my predecessor in that one of the three he listed there is scum. Now, with only those two alive besides me, this has been all-but confirmed.

---

Yea...not looking good for Channel at all.

[Mastin]

Dour's next on the chopping block.
He had a random vote for Phily (reasoning: He's asking for votes), but other than that, not much.

On a side note, I noticed an inconsistency just above. Sorry for the long quote, but I don't know how to avoid it and still make my point clearly (bolding is mine):
caf19 wrote:
So, do you find PhilyEc suspicious for his condemnatory reaction to your omgus? You seem to be using the tactic solely to judge Nocmen and ignoring the reactions of others.

Personally, I didn't find it overtly scummy, but I did find it slightly weird, which is something your posts have struck me as several times. I'm still not sure whether you are more concerned with finding scum or just messing around and confusing people.

Anyway, PhilyEc continues to bother me. It's just so easy to pull people up for something obvious like Omgus, as he did in his last post. His tone also seems quite assured ("care to redeem yourself before I'm completely convinced you're mafia?"), which makes me think he's planning to push further. Possible scum behaviour.

<snipped to save space>

I'd say Phily is in danger of getting my vote now, and needs to address my points and make a more decent attempt at scumhunting. It's pretty impossible to get a read on MafiaSSK, Flame (being replaced I know) or Trumpet at this stage - I would really like to get something from them before I commit.
The first part of this quote seems to say, "You thought he was scummy? I didn't think he was scummy." Then, as the post goes on, it turns into "this is scummy, that's scummy," and suddenly he's the likely candidate for a vote. Was this a contradiction like it seems at first blush, or was this you "talking out loud" and coming to a contradictory conclusion while you were typing? I get why you think PhilyEc seems scummy, and I agree to an extent, but couching it with the first part, the "it didn't look scummy, just weird" part, seems like you're giving yourself an out in case you don't get support on your theory.

Definitely possible Chainsaw Defense of Phily, via proxy of attacking caf.

Most of Dour's posts were addressing Magnus/B_B/A bit of Noc as well, so that's all there is from him.

On to his replacement, KoC. Now, I already know from looking at the other players I have in Isolation that there's a great deal of KoC-made interaction.

[Mastin]

This kinda feels like misrepresentation, because phail looks like he's talking about night actions rather than outing power roles in his second post. That might just be me misreading horribly, though.

Immediately opens up by defending madeof.

There's this one third stuff again. Of the three, two are proven town.
Guess what that leaves?

(Yup. Phil/Madeof/Channel.)

Knight's lack of quoting is bothersome,
But he goes from attacking SSK to defending SSK, presumably from people attacking SSK, I'd imagine.

This continues,

But with no quotes for context, My guess is this talking about hammering SSK.

Back, and thinking.
Trumpet, I don't like your "Either I'm scum, or KoC is scum, therefore KoC is scum" argument. The fact that two scum haven't leapt on suggests that you're hoping some poor townie will also jump on, at which point your buddy hammers. Typical scum LyLo tactic.
The lack of any results whatsoever since Isaac means either B_B is scum using "blocked" in conjuction with a massive bus to get clear, or town. I'm leaning town, but not discounting all the possibilities.
made worries me in an indefinable way, which is almost more worrying that a suspicion I can nail down and say "this, this and this is really scummy".

I hate the fact that he ignored the only other two alive players. Would've been much simpler if he only ignored one.

2) I would be comfortable with lynching madeofphail or caf19, with caf19 being my preference.

Much better! Out of the blue, mentioning two suspects not mentioned before!
(...But d*censored* the scum for picking the only two people alive...)

I still think this line was meant as a weak bus against Madeofphail, while attacking the pro-town player of the two, so that if he got the pro-town player lynched, instant win. If he got his buddy lynched, it'd make him look really good going into lylo.

- constant flip-flopping on his stance on role-outing
- role-outing, then saying he wasn't, then saying he was
- supposedly directing a scum-buddy to claim a PR.

I find the last here rather ironic and condemning, considering Knight (mafia) claimed to be a power role.

---

Definitely looks REALLY bad for Channel after looking at all of this. I'm confident that the other days' bandwagons will be the final nail in Channel's coffin.

[Mastin]

Same color scheme.

Votecount 1 of D2:

Isacc(2)

:

Beyond_Birthday

; Trumpet of Doom
Beyond_Birthday(1)[/color]:

Isacc

Not Voting (6):

Nocmen; Seraphim

; caf19; madeofphail;

MafiaSSK

;

Dourgrim

Votecount 2 of D2:

Isacc(4)

:

Beyond_Birthday

; Trumpet of Doom; madeofphail;

MafiaSSK

Beyond_Birthday(1)

:

Isacc

Not Voting (4):

Nocmen; Seraphim

; caf19;

Dourgrim

Final votecount of D2:

Isacc(5)

:

Beyond_Birthday

; Trumpet of Doom; madeofphail;

MafiaSSK; Seraphim

Beyond_Birthday(1)[/color]:

Isacc

Not Voting (3):

Nocmen

; caf19;

Dourgrim

What's concerning is caf not voting, like Dour. However, liked KoC said when replacing in (I think it was KoC, anyway), the scum had plenty of time to buss. If we believe he was telling the truth, this seems to implicate madeofphail, considering how almost everyone else is confirmed town, and the only other one there is me. (Well, my predecessor)

Votecount 1 of Day 3:

madeofphail(1): Trumpet of Doom

MafiaSSK(3):Seraphim

; madeofphail; caf19

Seraphim(1): Beyond_Birthday

Not voting(2):

MafiaSSK

,

Knight of Cydonia

My predecessor goes hard against madeofphail. Madeofphail bandwagons SSK. Knight remains unvoted.

Votecount:

Knight of Cydonia(2)

: Trumpet of Doom;

Beyond_Birthday

Not Voting (3): caf19; madeofphail;

Knight of Cydonia

Interesting, how neither caf nor Madeofphail are voting, nor is Knight. I can safely say from my point of view that both scum weren't voting in that vote count.

---

That's the last vote count the mod has given.
Overall, though, Phily looks bad, Madeof looks worse, and by extent, that makes Channel look like my primary suspect.

[Mastin]

Right, so I should be finished. Channel, caf, your turn.

Suspects.
Now,
why,
reasoning,
quotes/hyperlinks,
evidence.

[Mastin]

Okay, this is ridiculous.
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: 616

Current time:
Jul 02, 9:30 pm.

That's got to be nearing the 36 mark for MY post.

Mod, prods are in order

.

[Mastin]

Good, solid post.
I found that Trumpet was scum hunting, and doing a darn-good job at it. He nailed KoC, and had severe suspicion of madeofphail.

That's generally the idea. Good scum don't kill players who suspect them.
Good scum kill players who look solidly pro-town.

B_B fit into this category, and was almost certainly NK'd because of it. (Speaking of which, might be a good idea to do an iso-read, anyway, despite how I think it was due to B_B's pro-town appearance.)

[Mastin]

Got my prod, just wanted to let you know that I am still here and working on my analysis.

We are waiting on you. I've done mine, caf just did his...

RL has gotten in the way of me posting anything substantial, if at all, in all of my games at the moment, which you are welcome to check to confirm.

Oh, I believe you. It's annoying, but I'll have to wait.

[Mastin]

Idea:

FoS count. Where our current top suspect lies. From me, it's definitely on Channel. What about you, caf?

[Mastin]

I'm going out in about an hour and a half, but I'm starting my analysis post and it will be up tomorrow. So plenty of time.

I expect a post before July 6th, 6:14 am my time.

Also, my username is generally abbreviated to CDB.

Eh, I dislike the abbreviation.

[Mastin]

Channel's cutting it close. "Tomorrow" ends in five hours and will have reached the 24-hour mark. (Of course, knowing the loose definition of "Tomorrow", I'd still give him another 12 or so hours, and if no post by then, Channel was lying about "tomorrow" for sure.)

[Mastin]

His first post that isn't a random vote is post 90, on page 4. By this time Nocmen and magnus were engaged in a big argument, which was the issue du jour. Post 90 fails to comment on this.

I look at Iso, not actual thread, so will check up on this.

*checks*

Oh, right.

The last thing said in this post was from Walnut. Specifically, Trumpet commented on this:

How about saying something startling and waking yourself up?

That was earlier on page four right here, and was the last he said. From what I see in those pages, the Magnus-Nocmen debate was still very small. Magnus voted Noc, then unvoted that same page shortly afterwards.

I don't see this alleged big argument before Walnut's post, which was the last thing Trumpet commented on. Very likely just catching up.
And when catching up, even if there is a huge debate, I tend to just skip it fairly often. Saves time if you don't think either is suspect.

His second post is 125 on page 6. It announces some upcoming V/LA. Still no content yet, but some is promised within three or four days.

V/LA is V/LA. Attacking someone for being V/LA-->Fail.

Third post is 186 on page 8. He's back, promises a post the next day.

And then delivers it on that later post on page eight, no?

Defends lurking accusation, explaining he has been away for 5 days with band.

V/LA is V/LA. Simple as that. Trumpet is obviously some sort of band player; that was obvious by the posts. Band's a devotion; I'd know from my short time as a percussionist. Stop attacking someone for real life circumstances. Trumpet was eventually replaced due to extended V/LA.

Fair enough.

Then Why mention it at all if it's not part of your case, Channel?

Answer: Fluff to buff up the case.

Does not mention his lack of posts in the early pages, even when there were things to comment on.

Thing is, his V/LA explanation WAS the mentioning his lack of posts in the early pages. V/LA-->Limited to no time to comment on the pages.

Along similar lines, I will have multiple band-related events through the end of the weekend;

if you don't see me posting, that's probably why

. (High school band in Texas = lots of work, especially with contest season approaching fast. VOTE: Add in that I'm in another band that's taking a trip to Louisiana this weekend, and... yeah.)[/b] I will have content after Sunday, though.

In a word, band.

I've had concerts each of the last three days, and yesterday's and today's were out-of-state, a good ways into Louisiana

. So, naturally,

I've had lots of rehearsals for each, plus my homework

.

I think

I also tend to be a "sit back, let things happen and analyze from a distance"-style player early on in games

, and especially with wall-o-texters such as yourselves. Not that I really have anything to back that up with, of course: Of my two completed games that I was in from the start, one was Killing Verse, where everyone was heavily post-restricted, where I was speedlynched D1, and where a lot of my posting was trying to defend myself against an overblown "case" on me; and the other was Rebels in the Palace, where I was trying to do number-crunching by hand for most of D1.

Basically, I tend to post more if I think I know what I'm doing, which doesn't happen much until late in the game.

Basically, he fairly well explains his actions here and here. I, too, sometimes have trouble getting into a game.
His very next post, however, he DOES get into the game, when there is some content to work off of, like he had promised.

Claims his style is "sit back, let things happen and analyse for a distance" until much later in the game. Well that's promising. No comment on anyone else but himself yet.

Nothing wrong with that. Commenting on oneself isn't a scum tell, and his next post DOES comment on others, Channel. He gets into the game right then and there.

His first content post is 212, on page 9. Throwaway comment on the Nocmen/magnus argument ("Nocmen's not great, but it seems to have been cleared up". Cutting insight there).

Been cleared up-->Issue resolved-->No longer worth commenting on a great deal.

I'd think the same in Trumpet's position.

Expresses suspicion of Walnut for playing people off against each other and votes. Fair enough.

Again, why mention it if it isn't part of your case, Channel?

Says no opinion on Phily (me) because he fits his meta.

If someone matches their meta, it's null, and not worth commenting on. Like me in the RVS. It's null, and not worth commenting on. No problem here, either.

Hypocritically accuses RBT of lurking (acknowledges he has been lurking, but still a hypocrite).

Full quote:

Re: magnus/Nocmen: Nocmen's not great, but it seems to have been cleared up.

Walnut seems to have been trying to get B_B and magnus suspicious of each other, then not been happy when it didn't work. For that matter, he's been trying to make individual players suspicious of each other for much of the game, including apparently trying to make Nocmen look at RBT.

Phily... I'm rereading the (now finished) game where we were both town to see if I can get a read on him relative to how he's playing here. Seems about the same, so probably a nulltell.

RBT is lurking almost as much as I've been.

Re: magnus/Dourgrim: ...why do I feel like you're both going to flip town?

For reasons stated above, I feel most comfortable with a Vote: Walnut right now.

He wasn't making an accusation, Channel. He was making an observation. As it was an observation, there was no hypocrisy. He was stating a simple fact/opinion. Not making it scummy.

Try again, shall we?

---

This is just a small section of my counter-argument. It's already long, so I'll post it and respond to the rest.

Channel, as you can see, I will attempt to defend my predecessor. What about you?

[Mastin]

Oh, and reading the above:

Nothing wrong with that. Commenting on oneself isn't a scum tell, and his next post DOES comment on others, Channel. He gets into the game right then and there.

He mentions having defended himself a great deal in his previous games.

Of my two completed games that I was in from the start, one was Killing Verse, where everyone was heavily post-restricted, where I was speedlynched D1, and

where a lot of my posting was

trying to defend myself

against an overblown "case" on me

;

His meta supports him defending himself. I didn't include the link in my quote, but if you look back, you can find it.
------

Says magnus/Dourgrim are probably both town.

Well, Dour was making good points at a quick glance. And Magnus WAS town and likely was making equally (if not stronger) points.

So?

OK post, but no detail, no comment on many people (for a 9-page catch up. hmm) and hypocrisy.

IF it were an accusation, yea, it'd be hypocrisy.
It wasn't. It was a comment, a note, an observation. Call it whatever you wish along those terms, but it was no accusation.

He didn't put much detail into it at that point in time, but got into more detail later on in his posts. It's fine not putting detail into posts when catching up.

Take me. Would you rather have me quote almost everything, even from dead players, in catching up?

Or just the summary of what has happened?

Yea, especially from me, the latter. Most people agree. Few think that it's best to give a lot of detail catching up, in fact.

What makes it anything worth truly commenting on, Channel?

---
Also, if it's an "okay post", what about the supposed hypocrisy? Wouldn't that make it less than an okay post?

Now says the band V/LA is ongoing indefinitely. He didn't mention this before.

1: Again, you're attacking a person for being V/LA.

2: He was mentioning specific instances of being V/LA. Now he was further explaining why.

3: And again, what makes this worth commenting on?

You'd think this would mean he would take the opportunity to comment on as much as possible when he did have access, but all he does in this post is suggest that Phily is maybe playing a bit differently to when he saw him as town, but stresses that it's probably not enough to really be suspicious.

That was a comment, no? Expressing a possible doubt in the meta he had before. That's pro-town. And what do you know? He was right.

Let's go look at the full post to check out on that theory:

Yes, I'm lurking ungodly amounts. Yes, I still have Internet. Yes, I'm trying to follow the game. No, the walls of text aren't making it easier. Yes, band is going to be a long-term thing, and I'm not really sure when it's going to end.

Hmm... on second thought, Phily is acting a bit differently. My experience with him comes from this game. He mainly talked about one player D1 (speculated that the guy could be a jester), claimed to be suspicious of numerous people throughout the game (though D1, it was primarily in relation to the player who ended up being the D1 lynch), and self-voted, leading to his own lynch. Here, he's really only shown suspicion of two players (Magnus, B_B). I'm not sure if it's enough of a difference to warrant a statement that "OMGOMG HE'S ACTING DIFFERENTLY HE MUST BE SCUM", though.

The full post.

He explains that his V/LA will be an extended thing. And that he's trying to catch up, but Walls of Text slow him down. And comments on the fact that, on second thought, Phily's meta is different.

Also, looking at that post reminds me:

Dour was attacking HEAVILY Magnus and B_B. Phily was saying both of them were suspicious. Dour flipped scum, Magnus and B_B both flipped town. Chainsaw defense, anyone?

---

Ack. It happened again; this post is too long. <_<

[Mastin]

Post 290, on page 12. Also does nothing except to clarify that he actually meant that Phily is doing slightly different things but the net result is the same. So, I guess, it's not important after all. Which essentially makes this and the previous post completely sans comment. Great.

Post with an accusation-->Slight suspicion.
Clarifying that things are slightly different-->Still pointing out a different in meta.
Net result the same after clarification-->The suspicion is still there,
NOT that it means nothing at all.

You just claimed the opposite of the truth, Channel. Now, let's go back to Trumpet's actual post for confirmation on this matter, shall we?

Not really, no. Or at least, that wasn't really the impression I meant to convey. What I meant to say was that while I'm not sure he's doing exactly the same things he did, the overall quality of his play is about the same. Nothing's obviously different. (Other than the lurking, but I'm guilty of that too, and my physics project won't help.)

Okay, so he was saying that while he was thinking that Phily was acting a little differently, it wasn't a huge suspicion or anything. A good clarification.

This is NOT what you were saying, Channel.

Post 290, on page 12. Also does nothing except to clarify that he actually meant that Phily is doing slightly different things but the net result is the same. So, I guess, it's not important after all. Which essentially makes this and the previous post completely sans comment. Great.

Doesn't seem to match up with

Not really, no. Or at least, that wasn't really the impression I meant to convey. What I meant to say was that while I'm not sure he's doing exactly the same things he did, the overall quality of his play is about the same. Nothing's obviously different. (Other than the lurking, but I'm guilty of that too, and my physics project won't help.)

Doesn't comment again on Day 1, leaving his vote on Walnut as the town mislynches.

And was liking the vote less later on in the day. Wasn't active enough to change it.
Or so my memory tells me. Iso reads, last week's memories, television blazing, not mixing well.

His eighth post is 381 (nearly 100 posts after his last), on page 16, at the start of Day 2. Again says "yeah, I know, I'm not posting. I'll try to improve but who really knows" (I paraphrase)

That's some paraphrasing!

"...and the Understatement of the Week Award goes to caf19!"

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been notPosting, I get it. I'll try to be better about that. No guarantees, though, what with major testing starting tomorrow. (Speaking of which, I really oughta go to bed now.)

He was, again, V/LA. I wouldn't be here if he wasn't V/LA most of this game.
It's not a scum tell to be V/LA. It's a lack-of-good-foresight-I-shouldn't-have-signed-up-tell.

makes unimportant kill flavour speculation

Nope.

I think it would be beneficial to see what role provided these kills. Reason being I'd rather lynch something scum or a serial killer rather than something like a vig.

Madeofphail said the above,
And Trumpet was quoting THAT.

Well, if you look at the kill flavor... I mean, I think it's pretty obvious what roles killed which players.

Waiting to hear what B_B has to say before I really make a move.

Was waiting on B_B to comment, one of only a few to have not done so at that point in time.

He was responding to madeofphail. If you make the accusation, you have to make it against him as well, and he's your predecessor.

Exactly what he should be doing (what everyone should be doing) but still no comment on what he missed, or anyone else in the game.

So? He was voting and gave good, solid logic behind the vote. That's exactly what he should've done.
BB agreed.

Nice and logical agreement. Nice.

Anyway, shall we continue to lynching Isacc?

Your predecessor, at that same time?

This post.

We Don't even know the roles, so what is to say there even is a watcher or tracker?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Theory:
Possibilities:
1).One of these is scum covering their ass, and the other is town.
A). BB is scum trying desperately to Lynch Isacc for some reason.

B). Isacc is scum reaching for straws to defend himself. (no way to back up the fact that he is tracker, anyone could have made their argument after BB said that he targeted magnus.)
----------------------------------------------
Statements:
Quite frankly, I'm not at all happy with both players doing something like this. I'm fairly sure that at least one of them is right, and so whichever one is not fakeclaiming just gave the scum (or possibly non-town aligned killing role.) a free power role kill! Not a smart move on either person's part...

Why bring power roles into scumhunting this early? You're helping out power roles early in the game! That being said, Trumpet of doom makes a good case that BB is telling the truth because it was unprovoked claim. So Im gunna agree with you guys on this point.

Casts doubt on BOTH of them, speculates both could be scum, wild theory with little speculation, and seemingly fence-sitting...

Vote:Isacc

Yet still ends up bandwagonning Isacc for the reasoning given by my predecessor.

Try again, Channel.

400 at the top of page 17 is, to be fair, a good post, my predecessor changed his position on power role evidence in scumhunting. Knowing as I do that he made this change as town, I can only assume that madeofphail decided, when the whole Isacc/B_B thing came up between his posts, that power role evidence could have an important effect and so realised he was originally wrong.

1: You're admitting to points against you.

2: And this is not a case against me, Channel.

3: I remember something about madeofphail's posts besides what was pointed out. I can't remember it at this very moment; will check shortly.

---

Be back soon. Still working on it.

However, I might not be back for a while. Before I forget,

Mastin Votes: Channel

. My case, and the bad points I've seen Channel raise thusfar supposedly against me, makes this a fairly obvious vote.

[Mastin]

My bad. Heh. Was finishing, once and for all, a real-life project, which is now done and will no longer bother me. (Had been for months. <_<)

[Mastin]

Cutting it a bit close, no? If deadline is reached, then I'd be lynched due to Channel having held the tied vote on me longer, correct?

No. It would count as a No Lynch, since there are less than 7 players alive.

[Mastin]

No. It would count as a No Lynch, since there are less than 7 players alive.

Well, No Lynch, loss, same thing; Channel would just submit a NK of either of us for a win.

[Mastin]

Mm-hm. I had fun replacing in.

What'd you think of me instantly locking into Phail being scum?
"Note to self: Never let Mastin replace into a game if I want the scum to win."?

[Mastin]

...Really?

Trumpet, you had it nailed before! <_<