Mini 205 - Game Over

[Enigma91]

the die says fletcher so

random vote: fletcher

[Enigma91]

How would a cult make a difference? What does a cult's role do?

I have to second the need for an explanation, still getting used to the terms

[Enigma91]

Were still short a MastermindofSin so

fos: MOS

heh that has a catchy ring to it

[Enigma91]

@Mathcam: That would be a plausible move for us to make *but* what if the roleblocker hit a townie role like cop? Then he says who he blocked and we could end up hitting a much more powerful role. With such a low number of people, and therefore a smaller chance of multiple power roles, if we did hit a townie we'd be seriously hampered. And going slightly farther, if we did hit a townie power role then we'd not only hand the mafia a power role, but also quite possibly our only role blocker. Not exactly a good move for us is it?

@Tokiyoh: What leads you to think that cam could be a power role?

Anyone else no if MoS has been on?

[Enigma91]

@Tokiyoh: yep I emphasised why the roleblocker shouldn't claim
oh and because I haven't yet

unvote: fletcher

I don't think hes too suspicious right now, however mathcam is still slightly suspicious so

fos: cam

[Enigma91]

actually Cam, i think two of ur votes were random to start with.

This is an excellent point. This makes Enigma's post look

very

much like "Maybe I can come across as pro-town if I rally against the person pushing for tokiyoh's bandwagon, which conveniently is the other big bandwagon going." He says I "still look suspicious" even though he's never mentioned anything to that effect in any of his previous posts, and even most of the

other

people's votes on me were without any backing.

Unvote: tokiyoh, Vote: Enigma

Cam

A: you began pushing for tokiyoh after I stated why I thought you were suspicious, which is incidentally post 34. Though I didn't vote for you I still felt you to be suspicious, though now that you've explained your reasoning instead of voting fr you I fos'd you, which I still stand by. And if you can't figure out why I think that a mass claim, even if for a single role is a bad idea.
B: I'm not "rallying against the person pushing for tokiyoh's bandwagon" I'm saying I still find you suspicious because of calling for multiple claims on day one, I haven't said a word about tokiyoh, but if you care to know I think hes just a newbie, and attempting to be helpful to the town. So I see no reason to vote him or anything else.

@Ogre: how did I hint I was a vanila townie? And can you please explain the logic of your last sentence a little more it confues me.

I'm not sure what I did to arouse your suspiciouns so much, but all I was trying to do was point out the flaws in a plan that I thought was a bad idea.

[Enigma91]

ok, thank you for clarifying, but when I do say we I am referring to the town but how does that paint me to be a vanilla. Nor do I in any way hint at not having a power role, all I say is that we could end up lynching a power role.

[Enigma91]

@ Fletcher: Why are you considering me all of a sudden?
As for tokiyoh I still don't find him extremly suspicious, but a claim would definetly help everyone right now.
And has MoS been on at all, if he has then he's getting my vote for lurking. if not then I don't know but I am going to have to reread the thread carefully to check fletcher and tokiyoh so for now

fos: tokiyoh, fletcher

with a bit more emphasis on fletcher

[Enigma91]

@ Fletcher: Why are you considering me all of a sudden?
As for tokiyoh I still don't find him extremly suspicious, but a claim would definetly help everyone right now.

Enigma, if you don't find tokiyoh suspicious why do you want a claim from him?

FOS enigma

Also, MoS has made 12 posts since last posting inthis thread which was days ago. He also signed up for a game in that time. My vote stays with him.

I answer it in the post, to help everyone. By tokiyoh claiming it would either A: eliminate him as a suspect and allow us to analyze those pushing hardest for his lynch, or B: end with tokiyoh making an unbelievable roleclaim that is suspicious enoguh to get him lynched.

@Enigma: I didn't start suspecting you "all of the sudden" I just think that cam's and ogre's reasons against you are valid. You seemed like one of the best choices at that time.

But Cam said my defence was good enough, but was going to keep the vote because of gut feeling, and I don't really know about orge, but if he would like to tell us then ok. And just another thing, why are u thinking of voting me if I

was

a good target, do you still think I'm a good target or were u going to switch because I was a good target previously., or am I losing my mind now?

Now for tokiyoh, I must say that the claim did not do much to alleviate suspiscions of others, but it also spiked my suspicions quite a bit. Now had this beenanother less suspicious player he claimed to be partners with then I would be more understanding, but the fact that fletcher hasn't been attacking tokiyoh like others would speak for the claim's truth, but on it's own is not enough to be trusting of it. And a quick question, if there are 2 masons in a game do they win alone if the mafia is elimnated or just along with the town? I don't know what to think of the claim because it could go either way, so I'm going to wait for a while to see what else transpires

[Enigma91]

@ Enigma
could u explain why the claim would've been better with someone less suspicious?
i'm just wondering about this here..
since the reason we are both suspicious

was

the apparent partnership to start with.
so.. wouldn't claiming otherwise make it worse?

Can you please explain your first sentence I don't understand it at all. Actually as far as I could tell, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong, fletcher was suspicious for saying you were just a newb as a way to try and get you off the hook, and then fos'ed hotsauce because he was too newbish. And you were suspicious because of your were jittery and talked alot trying to come across as town. My point was in general that by claiming you can either confirm yourself, or make a claim that arouses suspiciouns of others and leads to you being lynched.

[Enigma91]

ah, sorry Enigma i didn't word it properly.
i was referring to this:

Now had this beenanother less suspicious player he claimed to be partners with then I would be more understanding, ...

unless i misunderstood ur statement in the first place @@a

Glad to clarify, what I meant was I would have been more beliveing of that claim had you been with another player, but at the time I was also suspicious of fletcher so it didn't help you out as much as it otherwise would have. 2 suspicious people that are claiming to be together isn't exactly really something I'm gonna be blindly beliveing

[Enigma91]

@Tokiyoh: was that last post aimed at me?

[Enigma91]

I would also like to hear some more from thok. Quite a few of his posts are just asking for and seem somewhat condescending in nature, which is not a good thing to be for a townie.
Looking back on assasians(sp?) posts it seems there really devoid of content. mainly just stating the obvious when it's not nessecary, and restating that MoS is lurking.
And we still have MoS lurking to his hearts content. If he doesn't post like by tomorrow can he be replaced please?

fos: assassian, thok, MoS

[Enigma91]

Wouldn't be rather odd though to have a cult recruiter paired with a mason? that essentially gives the recruiter a godfather esque ability if the two know the otehr to be town like in most mason roles, and that seems sorta overpowered to me.
The other possibility we have is that maybe theres more than one mason group?

@Tokiyoh: I keep emphasis on people not posting because it's really not helpful at all for the town, so best just to prod them into it if there not going to naturally

@Vesuvan: I was against the roleblocker coming out to just so u kno

[Enigma91]

Personally I think vesuvans attacks on sinatra were rather suspicious in his refusal of sinatras logic, it seems perfectly fine to me. Now that sinatra's partner has revealed himself I would like to hear what theory vesuvan was persuing, until then

fos:vesuvan

Also I beleive there must be a traitor within at least one of the mason groups most probably the largest. Of the four that were in that mason group I would agree that MOS is most suspicious with his rampant lurking so for now I would agree with lynching him. However I would also consider it possible that there isn't a traitor in the largest group but instead in one of the smaller groups. So to end

vote: MOS

[Enigma91]

Well first off

unfos: vesuvan

all questions answered and reasonable.

@Thok: I can see what you mean, however we would have to be careful of who we pick. Of the four of use I personally would be more inclined to go after someone who hasn't been contributing to the discussion, of the four of us I think that phoebeus and myself have attempted to contribute to disscussion. Also if it helps I have seen any particularly scummy behavior from phobeus. Hot sauce hasn't posted much and is going to be replaced, hopefully soon. Of the four of us the one I would be most interested in hearing from would be assassian. The majority of his posts have just been him pointing at MoS and also hasn't posted much.

[Enigma91]

sorry to double post but wanted to point out that MoS was on and still hasn't posted so he's majorly lurking.

[Enigma91]

A: I don't think that assassian is scum, all I said is I want to hear him say more, at least more than him pointing out MoS's lurking(and yes I know I'm being a hypcrite)
B: I'm not attacking MoS I'm just pointing out that he's still lurking after being prodded. If for nothing more than to get him replaced along with hotsauce.

[Enigma91]

Phoebus, I haven't seen any particularyly scummy behavior from you

[Enigma91]

Well if we MoS will post then I guess I'm fine with

unvot: MoS

Just something else to think about for Vesuvan was this:
[quote=Vesuvan]Vote: Enigma91

There's something about that reasoning that Assassain is most likely to be scum among the non-Masons that doesn't sit right with me, especially with the attack on MOS in the same post and subsequent post.[/quote]

Quick defence of assassain, and misrepresenting my post after mentioning that I wantd to hear more from MoS.

I can definetly see something in Inhim's logic

vote:vesuvan

fos:Assassian

[Enigma91]

could you give some examples?, and I must say that I had voiced suspicions but You answered me I went back after Inhim posted his list up and found some other stuff, just to cement what seems to be a bad case.

[Enigma91]

could you give some examples?, and I must say that I had voiced suspicions but You answered me I went back after Inhim posted his list up and found some other stuff, just to cement what seems to be a bad case.

You mean other examples of you avoiding confrontations? Well, the point where I vote for you seems about the most telling, though I had noticed the trend before I voted for you to see if I could get a reaction - and it got almost no reaction at all.

When I voted for you in post 253, my reasoning was:

There's something about that reasoning that Assassain is most likely to be scum among the non-Masons that doesn't sit right with me, especially with the attack on MOS in the same post and subsequent post.

In the previous two posts, you had pointed out that MOS was lurking and had made a quite weak attack on Assassain based on him not contributing anything to discussion beyond noting that MOS was lurking (you even pointed out the hypocrisy of your statement later, prevent that from being a point of contention). You did not in any way attack MOS in either post. You did not in any way say that Assassain was the most likely of the non-Masons to be scum.

Your response to me was:

A: I don't think that assassian is scum, all I said is I want to hear him say more, at least more than him pointing out MoS's lurking(and yes I know I'm being a hypcrite)
B: I'm not attacking MoS I'm just pointing out that he's still lurking after being prodded. If for nothing more than to get him replaced along with hotsauce.

You are steadfastly refusing to take a position on anything, even to the point of not commenting on the misrepresentation of your actions. You're seemingly trying to avoid every bit of attention that could be directed toward you or my attack on you. You're seemingly single-minded on pursuing lurkers.

I know you misrepresented my case which was exactly pointed out in the next post, restating what I actually said. I really don't see how I'm avoiding confrontation, every time someone is suspicious of me I've answered there questions and pointed out what they had wrong.
I haven't been single mindedly pursuing lurkers I've been saying that I want to hear them say something that adds to the disscussion. If you really want to know my position it about amounts to I want MoS and Assassian to post, and that you have had scummy behavior. Past that and I'm trying to keep an open mind

For previous examples:

- Most adamantly against a roleblocker claiming with no night 1 kill; refusal to be drawn into discussion over it

how did I refuse to be draw into disscussion over it, I said everything about the matter I had to say

- Post 66 where you respond to Mathcam and Ogre. In particular:

A: you began pushing for tokiyoh after I stated why I thought you were suspicious, which is incidentally post 34. Though I didn't vote for you I still felt you to be suspicious,

though now that you've explained your reasoning

instead of voting fr you I fos'd you, which I still stand by

Bolding mine for emphasis. Mathcam didn't explain his position any further at all between your FOS on him and post 66. Backing away from confrontation again.

thats because it wasn't there. I was going to vote cam up until post 39, where he agreed with some of my points but clarified his plan. Then I decided that I still thought pushing for the claims was odd so early on and fos'd him.

- In post 68, when Ogre clarifies the reason for his attack on you when you ask him for examples (sound familiar?) you just backpedal and restate your position re. Roleblocker Claim in a less confrontational manner.

I think your confused here. I made post 68, and orge clarified in 67. The reason I restated my argument was because he thought I was making a sublimnal claim of being vanilla, and attempting to come off as town too hard by saying "we" instead of "town.
Second, why do you find it scummy for me to ask people to clarify what they think is suspicious. If I don't know what there having problems with I can't clarify/defend myself. I'm not attempting to avoid confrontation by asking questions I'm attempting to avoid misconceptions and confusion.

- Post 112, asking Tokiyoh for a claim, though saying that you're not suspicious of him (avoiding confrontation, trying to slip by as a "good townie" as per what Mathcam noted earlier). You did answer this point when it was raised (by Assassain, interestingly enough) and post 129 where you did so is one of the few exceptions I've noticed to your keeping your head down (the other being post 147 which was on an irrelevant topic).

I agreed with a claim from toki bucause he was under suspicion from others. Furthermore I wasn't the one that pushed it I just agreed with Mathcam that it would either help toki or hand us a scum to lynnch

- Post 175, placing FOS on Thok and Assassain directly after a post where STD attacks both players (this is far from the only time we notice you doing this, but it is the most noticeable)

If someone makes a good point do you agree with them?

That enough? Or do you need me to do a full PBPA?

Nope thats good, thanks for clarifying

[Enigma91]

first of all
well thats confusing

Rolands request makes sense and I agree with it, for obvious reasons.
sorry for quick post but this is all I have time for

[Enigma91]

I'd be fine going after MOS consider the events of yesterday.

vote: Mos

The possibility of those three being scum is rather likely considering we didn't hear muck from them at the end of yesterday, but then we had the long night. Can any mason partners to Sinatra and MoS tell us wether or not there was any communication between them?

And before I forget I'm going to be away for a week starting tomorrow and I'm not sure wether I'll have internet access

[Enigma91]

Well I'll be fine with not lynching him if he posts or is replaced or does something remotely close to helpful. As far as I remember every post MoS has made has been him saying he promises to read the thread and say something, which he still hasn't.

[Enigma91]

Well I guess it's my turn to claim then.
I'm the doc and last night I protected inhim, which puts to explains what happened with roland. My other targets in order were Mathcam, STD, Roland. I also would believe our cops and will go along with them here.

vote: sineish

[Enigma91]

Well my role doesn't describe wether or not I actually go to my targets house, it just describes my abilities as a ritual of healing which seems to be interpretable as either way but I'm sorta confused now, if my memory serves me right inhim isn't a mason so who did enter his house?

[Enigma91]

Well my role doesn't describe wether or not I actually go to my targets house, it just describes my abilities as a ritual of healing which seems to be interpretable as either way but I'm sorta confused now, if my memory serves me right inhim isn't a mason so who did enter his house?

Thok all the flavor of my role is right in there, a ritual of healing was all my ability was described as

[Enigma91]

healer....

[Enigma91]

good game all! and thank god I have at least some luck, I almost killed roland night 4 Anyways it was cool being a cult and that was amazingly my first win! thanks for modding speedy and thanks to STD for the being a good partner