Mini 1117 - Manhattan Special - [GAME OVER]
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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I like this post not all. If only I had two votes... (admittedly if I did have two I'd use them both on Grey but you understand, right?)ShadoWolf wrote:
Doesn't mean you can push a BW on someone who clearly made 2 RVS posts. Calling his posts dumb isn't a great move, either, as they were RVS posts. The fact you needed reasons for a vote in RVS is also suspect, but forgiveable for now.Internet Stranger wrote:I hate RVS.
VOTE: CrazyQuestions: Looks like I've got the CrazyAnswers for him.
Everyone who votes after this post for a player who is not SW or Grey needs to provide a reason for doing so.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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[quote="Substrike22"]
p-edit, p-edit: EMP don't tell people who they can and cannot vote for,[/quote[
Quote please.
Also seriously. "EMPKing, get back here and explain more other than "Gray claimed scum and redacted". That vote seems awfully opportunistic this early and I don't like how the wagon shot up in numbers so quickly."
This is ... I don't even. Can a member of the town mind telling me if that quote is as scummy, reaching, chainsaw-using and inane as I think. (Seriously, he thinks I used my magical scum powers to cause a wagon to shoot up? Actually. He thinks three votes is "shot up in numbers"?)
Sub, Grey and SW calling it now.-
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Pleae quote where Grey disagreed with me. Please quote where you disagreed with me!ShadoWolf wrote:
Read this as:Empking wrote:Sub, Grey and SW calling it now.Empking wrote:EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS MAFIA!!!
A better quote would be.Empking wrote: GREY AND EVERYONE WHO TRIES TO DEFEND GREY IS MAFIA!!!Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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I would like everybody to note that SW is calling Grey non-mafia when Grey has only made two posts (and those posts being 1st and 2nd along with being random.).ShadoWolf wrote:]You think Grey is Mafia. I disagree. Not a quote, but there we are. Your version also fits though.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Awful awful desperation to try and discredit me.ShadoWolf wrote:
I'd like everybody to note that Empking thinks he has called the entire scumteam, based on about 10 posts in total.Empking wrote:
I would like everybody to note that SW is calling Grey non-mafia when Grey has only made two posts (and those posts being 1st and 2nd along with being random.).ShadoWolf wrote:You think Grey is Mafia. I disagree. Not a quote, but there we are. Your version also fits though.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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He was the scumiest. Not hugely though.Erratus Apathos wrote:
How scummy do you think Grey was as of post #5?Empking wrote:Vote: Grey- Caimed scum then redacted it. Not a random vote.
Why not?[/quote]Empking wrote:
I like this post not all.ShadoWolf wrote:
Doesn't mean you can push a BW on someone who clearly made 2 RVS posts. Calling his posts dumb isn't a great move, either, as they were RVS posts. The fact you needed reasons for a vote in RVS is also suspect, but forgiveable for now.Internet Stranger wrote:I hate RVS.
VOTE: CrazyQuestions: Looks like I've got the CrazyAnswers for him.
1. His defence of Grey
2. His vote having nothing to do with his defence of grey.
If you've got it flaunt it.
You claim you've found the scum team before over half the players have even posted? Really?Empking wrote:Sub, Grey and SW calling it now.
Preview: He called Grey town after two posts that don't suggest a town alignment (at all). That means he's either lying or has role information (AKA Mafia).
Calling somebody scum after 10 posts is a perfectly reasonable town play. Its typical hyperbole.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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BEEP BEEPShadoWolf wrote:
He's a neutral read to me at the moment.Erratus Apathos wrote:ShadoWolf, when you say you disagree that Grey is scum, are you saying you think he's town?Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Chainsawwing is indirectly defending a player by attacking the attacker. We're on page 3 unless he can back it up with some facts he shouldn't be using it.CrazyQuestions wrote:
I do not know what chainsawing means exactly, but I am not even considering Empking in my analysis. It involves only YOU, IS, Shadow and myself.Substrike22 wrote: Also, Crazy you could just as easily be chainsawing for EMP right now. If anything I've remained skeptical of IS's play thus far, and asking you to clarify your point of "curious", which is (purposely?) a vague definition/word is not a scum tell.
It's like saying someone did something "interesting". Interesting in what way? Curious in what way? It all begs the same question, because calling something "curious" now doesn't help us determine your alignment later.
You have not explained the inconsistency of your quotes. RECORDED.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Honestly its just your honestly and your lack of fear for the consequences.CrazyQuestions wrote:
So quickly?Empking wrote:Just so you all know. Crazy is clearly town.
Id like you to say why. Not for giving me townie points (that too, it would be good for town), but mainly because I like to write my arguments in odd ways and many times I am not sure whether some players understand what I sayPlus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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I disagree with it. IS is also semi-town.CrazyQuestions wrote:
Since Strike and IS do not seem to be interested in comment my arguments on them two, you may well do. You consider me town and you are voting for strike now, so you are interested in my theory. Please analyze it...Empking wrote:...many things...
Preview: el, answer my question.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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I don't get it. He's on the forum. He's posting, Why can't he post here?el simo wrote:
None, he made two posts six hours ago. This isn't enough time to confirm any activity theories, it is the middle of the working week.Empking wrote:El: What are your thoughts on Grey avoiding the thread?Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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How about you play the game and scum hunt? No seriously POSTING IN CAPITALS does not make up for your refusal to help this game.TheLonging wrote:
YOU'RE SCUMEmpking wrote:El: What are your thoughts on Grey avoiding the thread?
VOTE: EMPKING
FOR THE RECORD, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I AM DOING THIS GAME.
So humour me guys; what in all of this crap do I have to re-read to catch up again? This is exactly like how IS described it; it's a family fight, not scumhunting.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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By gosh. Since that is y'know a truthful and accurate fact. Which (the last time I checked) you can immediately notice by just looking at the main post. So what are you trying to say when you bring it up?TheLonging wrote:Therefore I am voting you. You are also saying Grey is avoiding the thread and on TOP of that, he's doing it deliberately.
Unvote
Vote: GreyPlus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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No its not WIFOM. Don't use that word unless you know what is means.el simo wrote:^ which is why I'd rather leave it to later in the game when we have an actual pattern to analyse. Too much wifom this early.
EA: I be honest, their play suggests I'm right but I'm not extraordinarily confident on my reads this early in.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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I'm sorry seriously. That's your argument.el simo wrote:
I don't appreciate the demeaning tone bub.Empking wrote:
No its not WIFOM. Don't use that word unless you know what is means.el simo wrote:^ which is why I'd rather leave it to later in the game when we have an actual pattern to analyse. Too much wifom this early.
What you've claimed isn't WIFOM, and that is that he is avoiding the thread, but his only possible defence is all catch 22. It's a loaded accusation and this early in the game with having given him enough time to establish a pattern for us to analyse, it's just all bad news.
Grey's action mark him clearly scum due to there not being any pro-town natureto his actions. That means hecan't defend himself without resorting to WIFOM. That's not fair!Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Or we can lynch scum.GreyICE wrote:To derail this debate, what does everyone think about lynching lurkers? Because...
Unvote
Vote: Saporovirus
Do I need to explain why this post is bull?sub wrote: Post 98 he hops on the popular wagon without giving a reason. I'm just getting scum vibes. Most of his arguments on p4 is regarding WIFOM stuff, not really much to do with the game. And El Simo was right, that was WIFOM. EMP is trying to push the wagon anywhere but himself, for any reason.
1. One other vote is not a "popular wagon".
2. I've beren clalling Shado scum since Day 1. No small minority of posts have been giving reason for my voting Shado.
3. "Most of his arguments on p4 is regarding WIFOM stuff," - This is simply not true.
4. "that was WIFOM" - No it wasn't. Please provide evidence for this statement.
5. El Simo admitted he was spouting nonsense when he called it WIFOM originally (Though it was masked in a rather defensive, aggresive tone.)
6. "EMP is trying to push the wagon anywhere but himself, for any reason." - This is clearly nonsense because
a) if I was moving the wagon to anyone I wouldf've joined Crazy's.
b) I've been calling Shado scum since page 1.
Do I need to explain why this post is scummy?
1. Its bull.
2. Its doing a chainsaw defence of a player that we scumhunters have already noted a connection between on page 1.
3. Its hopping onto the largest wagon.
4. Its hopping on the largest wagon for the sole reason to keep Shado from getting up.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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It might be my bias but this looks like coaching to me. Any thoughts?ShadoWolf wrote:
If you think EMP is the best wagon, why aren't you voting him? What's the benefit of lynching a lurker? I've always found lurking to be a null-tell. Both sides do it equally.GreyICE wrote:
If you're asking me what is best wagon, easily EMP by a mile. He's acting quite odd with the "I nailed the entire scumteam" jazz. Sure. The lurkers are still scummy.Erratus Apathos wrote:
How can you extol the virtues of reading scum behaviour on wagons when you refuse to form one?GreyICE wrote:Come on people, not forming wagons until I see who is joining us. Call that anti-town if you will, but I've found that scum behavior on wagons is not readable if scum AREN'T POSTING.
I think wagoning a lurked gets us more though. Both the 1 shots are scummy.
TL: What have I done that is scummy?
MS: What have I done that is scummy?
Sub: What have I done that is scummy?Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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I called him deliberately avoiding the thread for his lack of posting. And he was deliberately avoiding the thread. ( He admitted to it later.)TheLonging wrote:ShadoWolf wrote:
Didn't I already say? You calling Grey scum for not posting in the thread 4 hours after the game started.Empking wrote:TL: What have I done that is scummy?Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Because you're scum buddies.GreyICE wrote:
What, in all you have seen of me, gives you the idea that Shado would be coaching me? He wants me to act predictably and in a way he can read, I'll give you that.Empking wrote: It might be my bias but this looks like coaching to me. Any thoughts?
TL: If you deliberately ignore the thread in order to avoid answering uncomfortable questions then: Yes. That would be a point out of your favour.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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No. He really was avoiding the thread. How is that up for debate (or used as anumition against me rfor that matter) any more.saporovirus wrote:
GreyIce: stop being silly. I logged in on Tuesday and I logged in just now. That's not called "lurking," that's called "having a life." I suspect you might have one of those yourself, since you've also been accused of "avoiding" the thread. Nice try though.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Do I need to explain why this post is bull?Substrike22 wrote:
Fourthly, EMP's play on p.6 continues to press me as scum. People who revert to calling lurkers scum this early in the game are usually scum who are attempting to pin suspicion on the people who aren't here to defend themselves. It happens in almost every game I've played. Someone calls one of the lurkers scum and throws a vote their way, usually putting them into a position where they cannot defend themselves without looking scummy. While I agree that lurking is, eventually, a scum tell, I believe that early in the game it is a null tell. I believe that the true scum tell here are the people that are focusing their attention on the passive lurkers as opposed to the active players. Don't have time to list them off right now but I'll be back later with a list of them. Guarantee at least one scum is on the list.
1. I cannot revert to calling lurkers scum when I've been calling him scum all game.
2. "Lurking" is a straight up null tell.
3. Deliberately avoiding the thread is something different and is certainly a scumtell.
4. "usually putting them into a position where they cannot defend themselves without looking scummy"... er, wow.
Do I need to explain why this post is scummy?
1. Ignoring page 7.
2. Ignoring the fact that I'm voting for Shado.
3. Misrepresenting the game (me)
4. The fact that its bull.
5. Calling people scum based on theory disputes (Lurking is null early game.)
6. A player doing X is scum is classic. Its pretending to scumhunt but doing nothing of the sort.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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1) "every easy opportunity" - The only easy opportunity so far has been Crazy. How did I react to Crazy again?Substrike22 wrote:
EMP, you're a funny little Magikarp. You're seizing every opportunity to attack an easy target that you can. You're not formulating a hard case on anyone. You first voted for the guy who came and voted himself on the first post (stupid, but not necessarily scummy), and then you're voting for lurkers. That's scummy.
2) "lurkers" - Plural. Give us some names.
3) "not nercessarily" - Theory differences.
4) "not necessarily scummy" - It was RVS. Talk about leaping at straws.
5) "you're a funny little Magikarp" - ad hom.
6) Ignoring my last post.
7) Just repeating the same bad arguments over and over again.
8) I haven't voted anyone who isn't part of my page 1 proposed scum team. All my votes will be taken in that context by members of the town.
9) "hard case" - Vague term much.
10) "You're not formulating a hard case on anyone." Hypocrite.
11) "You're not formulating a hard case on anyone." Who has?Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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1. It was part of the RVS. It was the last post in the RVS.Substrike22 wrote:Empking wrote:Vote: Grey- Caimed scum then redacted it. Not a random vote.
Direct contradiction to point 4 above where you claim it was a part of RVS. You're a liar. Anyone for Lynch All Liars?
2. Being technical with words. I could have just as easily replaced "RVS" with "the third post" and it wouldn't change the meaning.
Scummy due to:
3. Its scummy rhetoric because town wouldn't believe it.
4. Not posting in good faith.
5. This is example of fake scumhunting.
6. Cherry picking.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Grey, you misunderstand. You're still scum its just that when I made my original post my original post it was merely slightly better than random. I call that part of the RVS, myself.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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1) What have I done to change your mind on me?
My mind has not been changed.
2) If I have done nothing, which arguments were convincing enough that you changed your mind?
My mind has not beehn changed.
3) How do I currently read, and why am I not your vote if I am scum?
Your being scum is condition on Shado being scum.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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WTFGreyICE wrote:
With two different lurkers and pergolwtf and the general tone of posters you want him at L-1? And you didn't announce this, begging for the ninja hammer?Empking wrote:Crazy is either both very good scum (the large posts of reading people) and rather awful scum (the angering IS and the like) OR he's town. Oh yeah somebody needs to vote Shado.
Unvote
Vote: EMP
This is... The scummiest thing I've seen this game.
Am I scum because I didn't announce that Shado was at L-2 or because I don't want the game to stall from lynching scum because of waiting for lurkers? They're both god-awful, grasping at straws reasons that fully illustrate how I was correct about you two being partners but I'd like to know which one I'm dealing with.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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So I'm scummy for saying people should KEEP voting him despite not saying that. Or saying that being scummy. Wow. I guess I was giving you the benefit of the doubt before.GreyICE wrote:You are scummy because you just asked people to keep voting him in a game with three total blanks and a ton of activity. KEEP voting, as if he's at L-4 or L-3...
Are you really going with the OMGUS defense. I've called you scum for the last ten pages.No. That makes sense that it's scummy. You respond by attacking me back? Nice. Can you explain your actions?Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Let's pretend we're in a crazy world where not posting "HES AT LYNCH-2 GUYS WATCH OUT DON'T NINJA HAMMA YOU FOOLS. LOOK AT THE MOD'S VOTE COUNT (WHICH THERE HAVE BEEN NO CHANGES FROM ON THIS PARTICULAR WAGON) IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME L-2 GUYS. LYNCH-2!!!!!!!!!!!!!" did cause ninja quicklynches. Then... No I'm sorry the stupidity and scrambling here just blows my mind. Sorry guys.GreyICE wrote:And I don't give a shit ever who says I'm scum. Anyone can check my meta to see that. I call trying to cause a ninja quicklynch scummy. Because it is. Will read more EMP ISO and meta when I get real computer back.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to congratulate you on your reading comprehension here or shake my head at your total lack.TheLonging wrote:
"So he's either all types of scum... or town!"Empking wrote:Crazy is either both very good scum (the large posts of reading people) and rather awful scum (the angering IS and the like) OR he's town. Oh yeah somebody needs to vote Shado.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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This.CrazyQuestions wrote:
As far as I understand his words, this is:longing wrote: "So he's either all types of scum... or town!"
She is town. Understanding her behavior if she is mafia would require to accept that she is AT THE SAME TIME such type of scum and such an opposite type of scum.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Again it might be my bias. But does anybody else read this post in pure monotone?GreyICE wrote:Tres true, scum.
(Last post on this subject, prolonged discussion on this subject will get us no where.)Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Why am I scum?GreyICE wrote:I do understand why you don't want a prolonged discussion of your scumminess and want to go back to your town wagon.
But I don't. You're scum.
What!? This is a totally different subject!Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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TL: Your questions proved you missed the point. Now find the point and reread your questions. Then you'll see why I haven't answered them. If you do reread your questions and still want me to answer then just repost them.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Ok, unless I've accidently walked into a 13 player newbie player game the fact that Shado has QFT'd Grey's fear of Ninja Hammers pretty much cements them being scumbuddies in my mind.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Yes the fact that it won't happen is why it won't happen.ShadoWolf wrote:Yeah, it's true that the guy who hammers will be heavily scrutinised, I will concede that, but it doesn't mean it won't happen.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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What great pressure to put you at L-1? (Also I should mention that I said NINJA HAMMAHS won't happen not that they'd be unwelcome.)ShadoWolf wrote:
Assuming that's true, why the great pressure to put me on L-1? The only difference between L-1 and L-2 is that L-2 prevents a quickhammer, assuming 2 people don't vote quickly in succession.Empking wrote:
Yes the fact that it won't happen is why it won't happen.ShadoWolf wrote:Yeah, it's true that the guy who hammers will be heavily scrutinised, I will concede that, but it doesn't mean it won't happen.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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No because then my expectation would be 1/100 My Lynches.GreyICE wrote:Pretty sure we'll be lynching town here, folks. Not at all comfortable with Shado's posts, but this has happened before, and frankly he's too goddamn incompetent to fake his incompetent behavior that got him killed last time so he can point and say "look, I always act like this as town and get lynched for it."
I'm sure IS or EMP will call me out for this, but frankly, whatever. Were I a gambling man, I would bet he flips town.
Would you bet your lynch on him flipping scum, EMP?Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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SW: What do members of the town gain by accepting that bet?
Oh yeah, I'd like to mention that I don't buy the SW is incompetent argument. That doesn't explain why SW leapt to Grey's defence (which is reciprocated by Grey), the fact that SW will make claims that are the height of inanity but only if Grey says it first and all the rest of the very compelling associative tells.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Still monotone but I'll bite. What argument that I'm town?GreyICE wrote:
And I don't buy the argument that you're town. Because you're scum.Empking wrote:SW: What do members of the town gain by accepting that bet?
Oh yeah, I'd like to mention that I don't buy the SW is incompetent argument. That doesn't explain why SW leapt to Grey's defence (which is reciprocated by Grey), the fact that SW will make claims that are the height of inanity but only if Grey says it first and all the rest of the very compelling associative tells.
Sub: Grey has been suporting SW all game from when he thought that was the best play as scum. He continues doing so in order to not look inconsitent or engaging in opportunistic scum bussing.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi-
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Empking Empking's Alt's Alt
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Let's see a couple of examples then.GreyICE wrote:
Oh please, you've made several posts insisting you were town,Empking wrote:Grey wrote:And I don't buy the argument that you're town.Empking wrote:What argument that I'm town?Grey wrote:I have no idea
I can't really respond to what you're saying when what you're saying is empty rhetoric.and I STILL don't buy that there's any argument. You don't want to respond to what I'm saying? Ooh, go do a post #180 and criticize my grammar mistakes. Scum.Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi