Mini 1145 — Plain Mafia (over)

[Erratus Apathos]

Now on to my normal intro. I'd like to get a bit of information about everyone for my personal reference.
1) What is your timezone? This is helpful to know when we're waiting for a player to post, just in case they live overseas. This is particularly important as every hour is going to count in a 1 week deadline.
2) What is your mafia experience here and elsewhere? It is good to know who are first timers and who are veterans. Join date doesn't tell the whole story with alts and hiatuses.
3) How frequently can we be expecting you to post? Keep in mind the shorter deadlines.

1) The only zone I'm in is the "no scum here, attack someone else!" zone.
2) I have no mafia experience whatsoever. Anything I do which appears scummy is actually a newbie mistake and should be overlooked.
3) I intend to post as close to once per 48 hours as I can get without getting prodded. Most of the posts I do make will just be blatant prod dodges.

For future reference, I'm noting AMP's late RVS vote because already 25 posts and on the first page, Iceninja's questions seem to have killed RVS. I'm not pointing fingers here yet, but it looks out of place. However, I do understand the temptation for a random vote, but I feel the RVS has been born and has died here on the first page.

^NERVOUS SCUM
VOTE: Peabody

[Erratus Apathos]

I don't want to discuss or quote directly from the game, as it is still ongoing, but I asked the exact same questions in newbie 1133 and Erratus answered them very differently.

He is lying right now in response to question number 2. Townies don't need to lie.

Vote Erratus Apathos

.

Okay Columbo, what's my motive for lying then?

Oh no! Someone is lying in a way that's completely obvious and intentional about something barely game-related at all! He must be scum!

Sarcasm doesn't make my point invalid. He answered my questions before without stupid responses before, very different then his recent answers. What could have changed since then? His role, possibly.

My ability to take that sort of shit seriously ran out. That's what changed.

I agree with DRK's 37.
UNVOTE: Peabody
VOTE: Lucresia

[Erratus Apathos]

Your quick reaction to vote me off a random vote and no serious allegations makes me curious what you are hiding that you need to shift focus on someone else who has only made their first post in the game.

OH GOD

I CAN'T VOTE LUCRESIA HARD ENOUGH

IF ANYONE IN THIS GAME IS A DAY-VOTE-HARDENER, PLEASE HARDEN MY VOTE RIGHT NOW SO I CAN VOTE LUCRESIA HARDER

1) DRK's allegations are clearly serious, as Lucresia is responding to them as serious allegations. So why the "no serious allegations" remark? It's one of those things scums love to do: to deny that there is any case on them at all. Town rarely does that.
2) The accusation that DRK is hiding something is ridiculous. DRK puts up the first case of the game, that means he's hiding something? Poor deflection here.
3) Lucresia specifies that she had only made her first post in the game. By doing that, she's suggesting that because she has only posted once, she is above suspicion. Again, this is unlikely to be town thinking.

FOUR MORE VOTES ON LUCRESIA SCUM PLEASE!

[Erratus Apathos]

"Four more votes on Lucresia, who is scum!"

That.

[Erratus Apathos]

Okay Columbo, what's my motive for lying then?

I don't know. Perhaps you'd want to be treated differently?

My ability to take that sort of shit seriously ran out. That's what changed.

Oh my. You've gotten grumpier since 1133. Funny, I remember you being such a positive force for town fairly quickly there. I'm not seeing it here quite so much, save maybe in 43.

That's not grumpy, that's snarky. And you know what I remember about mini 1133? I remember it

being an ongoing game.

Looking through my iso, I would say I became a positive force in this game a lot quicker than I usually do.

[Erratus Apathos]

I'm still stumped at why Erratus called me 'nervous scum' after my first post. The reasoning behind the accusation is not immediately obvious to me, and I would really like to understand the nature of the accusation. Then, I can answer the accusation accordingly. Pine agreed with Erratus in post 27, so obviously they are seeing something I am not.

Your post about AMP's random vote was rather waffly, which is often an indicator of scum uncertain if it's a safe attack or not.

[Erratus Apathos]

DRK, Lucresia, and Trendall have been prooded.

What about lynchking? He hasn't even posted!

Erratus's lie is very minor, so it isn't attracting lynchworthy suspicion from me, but it is still noteworthy in my eyes.

so why you still voting me then

[Erratus Apathos]

I agree with Romanus, Lucresia's 94 is probably not a scum gambit. And after reading ICE in iso I like that wagon even better anyways.

I don't want to discuss or quote directly from the game, as it is still ongoing, but I asked the exact same questions in newbie 1133 and Erratus answered them very differently.

He is lying right now in response to question number 2. Townies don't need to lie.
Vote Erratus Apathos.

HEY GUYS ERRATUS IS LYING, HE MUST BE SCUM

Erratus's lie is very minor, so it isn't attracting lynchworthy suspicion from me, but it is still noteworthy in my eyes.

OH SHIT NOBODY ELSE IS GOING FOR THIS, I'D BETTER PUT THE BRAKES ON *screeeeeeeeeech*

UNVOTE: Lucresia
VOTE: ICEninja

[Erratus Apathos]

You like a wagon that is based entirely on incorrect premise?

Oh and, you attacked Peabody right away but changed your vote quickly. Did you jump off the Peabody wagon because people weren't going for it?

Obviously not, since Pine was going for it. I jumped off because I liked the Lucresia wagon better. That's not the same thing at all.

I mean, obviously my vote on you wasn't very strong.

Really? Let's look at your vote on me again:

I don't want to discuss or quote directly from the game, as it is still ongoing, but I asked the exact same questions in newbie 1133 and Erratus answered them very differently.

He is lying right now in response to question number 2. Townies don't need to lie.
Vote Erratus Apathos.

Notice the strong language in that last sentence: "Townies don't need to lie". That doesn't sound like an obviously not very strong vote to me.

There are exactly zero justified votes on me. I wonder which one is the most likely scum?

VOTE: ICEninja
VOTE: ICEninja
VOTE: ICEninja
VOTE: ICEninja
VOTE: ICEninja
VOTE: ICEninja
VOTE: ICEninja
VOTE: ICEninja
VOTE: ICEninja
VOTE: ICEninja
VOTE: ICEninja

[Erratus Apathos]

I normally don't like to use meta as a defense, but me making strongly worded votes in the beginning of a game is completely normal for me regardless of my role. I just don't like RVS very much. Your vote on me is just as weak is mine was on you, but your's isn't for the purpose of getting us out of RVS. It's terrible.

Sounds like you think insulting my vote is going to make me unvote.

You are a very irritating person.

You're voting me because he's irritating and I said so? How is that an overreaction?

He was irritating in our other game too, I just had a town read on him then. And that game is over now.

More non justified votes on me. If this isn't a scum fueled bandwagon, then I don't know what is.

KEEP ATTACKING THE WHOLE WAGON, SO THAT TOWN WILL BE AFRAID TO GET ON

AM I RIGHT OR WHAT?

[Erratus Apathos]

EA's posts have generally made accusations without backing them up,

WRONG

Let's look at my accusations so far:

Peabody: (admittedly I didn't initially back up that vote, but then he asked me to back it up and I did)

Your post about AMP's random vote was rather waffly, which is often an indicator of scum uncertain if it's a safe attack or not.

Lucresia:

1) DRK's allegations are clearly serious, as Lucresia is responding to them as serious allegations. So why the "no serious allegations" remark? It's one of those things scums love to do: to deny that there is any case on them at all. Town rarely does that.
2) The accusation that DRK is hiding something is ridiculous. DRK puts up the first case of the game, that means he's hiding something? Poor deflection here.
3) Lucresia specifies that she had only made her first post in the game. By doing that, she's suggesting that because she has only posted once, she is above suspicion. Again, this is unlikely to be town thinking.

ICE:

I don't want to discuss or quote directly from the game, as it is still ongoing, but I asked the exact same questions in newbie 1133 and Erratus answered them very differently.

He is lying right now in response to question number 2. Townies don't need to lie.
Vote Erratus Apathos.

HEY GUYS ERRATUS IS LYING, HE MUST BE SCUM

Erratus's lie is very minor, so it isn't attracting lynchworthy suspicion from me, but it is still noteworthy in my eyes.

OH SHIT NOBODY ELSE IS GOING FOR THIS, I'D BETTER PUT THE BRAKES ON *screeeeeeeeeech*

SO UH, WHICH ACCUSATION DID I FAIL TO BACK UP AGAIN?

ignored the points that other people have made

You need to be more specific. Which points did I ignore, and why do you find it scummy that I ignored them?

and with the excessive capitalization and posting his vote against ICE 11 times, have had an annoying quality.

You don't want me to use capitalization or repetition? Well TOUGH SHIT, COWBOY! TOUGH SHIT, COWBOY! TOUGH SHIT, COWBOY! TOUGH SHIT, COWBOY! TOUGH SHIT, COWBOY!

Capitalization and repetition are strong ways to get attention. I don't give a shit if anyone likes them or not, I'm using them anyways.

This paragraph is so bad I don't even know where to begin.
1) Lucresia went in to survival mode way harder than I did, yet you unvoted her.
2) A townie reaction to being voted for reasons as bad as the ones put on me is NOT to ignore them.
3) The votes on me are

awful

, and I have every right to attack them.
4) I do happen to be concentrating on scum hunting, because I'm nearly positive that there is scum on my wagon somewhere.

Like Ranger, I was having a hard time deciding who was the scummiest person on my wagon. Erratus has had the least scummy (albeit quite rude) attacks on me, where Valern has just been seemingly purposefully trying to get under my skin and attack me without reason. Romanus's original vote on me was horrible and Trendall's vote was a sheep of a horrible vote, but I'm feeling like Valern is still the worst right now. He hopped on a wagon after the Lucresia wagon lost steam, despite being VERY confident that she was scum, and now looks like he's going to try to push my lynch to the end of the day. Perhaps unless my wagon loses steam and then he pushes whatever easy wagon comes along next?

Alright, fair enough. I thought your attack on your wagon was disingenuous because you were just calling it a scumwagon without really scumhunting it, but your response here is reasonable, and I think it shows I was wrong.

SO I GUESS I NEED TO VOTE HOP

AGAIN

. DAMN IT.

I'm not seeing scum from Valern or Pine here. I'd rather lynch the guy with the emptiest ISO, and amazingly enough it's not the guy with one post. It's AMP. He's still sitting on his random vote, and most of his posting is arguing theory. The only thing I see that even remotely resembles scumhunting is this one line regarding Lucresia:

However her OMGUS vote is really, really damn fishy, and makes my scumdar tick, I can see why people started putting pressure on her. I don't know whether I need to put pressure on her or not, you guys seem to be doing a fine damn job of it

and even then, he uses a lame excuse to not vote that way. If there's a motive for town AMP to not vote Lucresia here, I don't see it.

I seriously want everyone to look at AMP's iso and see for yourselves how full of fluff and devoid of scumhunting it is.

UNVOTE: ICEninja
VOTE: AMP

[Erratus Apathos]

I wouldn't mind a Trendall lynch. By PoE, I'd be okay with lynching any of {Meransiel, Trendall, Romanus, Peabody}.

I still think AMP was the scummiest though so I'm leaving my vote on Meransiel for now.

[Erratus Apathos]

AMP does. It's not just that he has little content, but what content he does have is pretty much just theory debating rather than scum hunting. Scum love to debate theory to appear to be posting meaningfully without committing to an opinion on who is scum.

Examples of AMP debating theory:

To be blunt, I hate the night zero, I find it really unfair to the poor townie that didn't even get to post at all. As far as text wall go, I like them, I tend to write pretty verbose posts with lots and lots of quotes being analyzed (yes post by post analysis is my favorite scum-hunting technique). Also fair warning I tend to kind of tunnel to see what reactions I get, so expect me to start calling someone out as scum day 2, either because I believe they are scum or because I'm fishing to see how they react to pressure.

Do you subscribe to LaL then? Is there ever a time where a townie lying is justified?
I personally don't lie, almost ever, but there are times when it is in the benefit of the town to lie, (e.g. a single shot vig claiming compulsive to attract a scum shot)

That's not my only post, you know. <.< I've already commented on what I find most interesting, but until there are more posts from Luc there's nothing more for me to say on that front. I try to keep a high content:post ratio. I'm not going to say anything unless I think it's worth saying; anything more is anti-town.

is one of the most true statements I have seen in a while, large content-less posts are the hallmark of scummy play.

Oh, I'm not in anyway saying that large posts are bad, I personally enjoy writing long posts, what I'm saying is that one should be wary of posts that are really long but don't actually say anything or commit to anything. Scum love to write wall posts, where the end conclusion is "I don't know, he could be scum, or not". if you are town, you should commit to an opinion even if you are unsure of whether it is right or wrong. I mean the point of a long post is to explain why you came to a conclusion, not to write for the literary merit of your prose (if thats what you are here for you came to the wrong forum).

[Erratus Apathos]

EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS

Okay then

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Valern

As ICE points out, he has conveniently been on every major wagon thus far, and ICE seems to have got less scummy, but I still need to reread properly.

Trendall just went straight from having ICE as his biggest suspect, to saying "okay" to sheeping ICE. With no nervousness, no caution. It's really unusual for town to go from attacking a player to immediately following them, unless they're fairly certain they were wrong on that player. The second half of this sentence shows clearly that Trendall isn't certain at all. He's just hand-waving his suspicion on ICE away so it doesn't get in the way of his new target.

I now feel really good about either Trendall or Meransiel hanging.

UNVOTE: Meransiel
VOTE: Trendall

[Erratus Apathos]

I read Peabody in iso, and lookie lookie lookie what I found.

Here's Peabody's case on Pine:

I do support a Pine wagon. I've noticed a pattern of sheeping and bandwagoning with a splash of inconsistency.

Sheeping

: His vote on me was based off of Erratus' accusation that I was nervous scum.

Bandwagoning

: Although he never ended up voting for the Lucresia wagon, he 'liked' it. That would be the second instance of bandwagoning (the first was on me). That's 100% of his voiced suspicion by the way.

Inconsistency

: His post 78 showed he was pretty convinced I was scum, but in his next post he unvotes, saying my case is stale and I haven't said anything incriminating?

Now here's his defense for his lameshit Trendall vote:

I know I did not elaborate on my reasoning for voting Trendall. It was a simple bandwagon and sheepish vote because I actually have not reread yet like I said I needed to.

Lolz, he's smothering himself with the same exact turds he was chucking at Pine. So yeah, Peabody is obvscum. Calling the Peabody/Trendall/inHim scumteam now.

UNVOTE: Trendall
VOTE: Peabody

[Erratus Apathos]

Ehhh, I actually like 243.

UNVOTE: Peabody
VOTE: Trendall

[Erratus Apathos]

Somebody hammer!

[Erratus Apathos]

Post 90 is evidence enough that Pine didn't track Peabody to the kill. And I still like Peabody's reaction to the sudden wagon on him yesterday, he is very much town.

Vote: inHimshallibe

Vote: inHimshallibe

Vote: inHimshallibe

Vote: inHimshallibe

Vote: inHimshallibe

Vote: inHimshallibe

Vote: inHimshallibe

Vote: inHimshallibe

This is who we need to be lynching today people. One slot, three players, eighteen posts, and not a single meaningful word in any of them.

[Erratus Apathos]

If either of those were the case then Pine wouldn't have attacked Peabody so hard in the first place. Quit being stupid and/or looking for reasons not to bus inHim.

[Erratus Apathos]

Gone all weekend, only did some modding yesterday. I see a string of votes on me, that's unfortunate. Need to do some work, will address concerns in a bit.

Sorry I haven't been here yet. I forgot how urgent the deadline was for this game and would have posted last night if I remembered. I'll make a post after class is done today.

What is this, a prod dodging contest?

[Erratus Apathos]

I'm not completely convinced with this inhimshallibe case. Peabody and EA's read seem primarily based on this post. While yes, I agree scum love to argue theory, we have to take that in the context of AMP's slot. We'll note that his last post with content was made not even 3 days into the game. At such a point, it's more likely to discuss theory as the game is generally just coming out of RVS, and there have been questions raised where theory is concerned.

Uh what? AMP was the only one discussing theory and not scumhunting. If it's so likely to discuss only theory at that stage, why was he the only one doing it?

After this, he replaces, Mersaniel makes a single post, and then we get inhim. His posts actually have a decent amount of scumhunting, but they lack continuity which was a result of him catching up.

That's not scumhunting, that's worthless crap. I'm not talking about the catching-up, which I didn't even bother reading because for whatever reason, replacement catch-up posts

always

have a lower signal-to-noise ratio than Glenn Beck. I'm talking about the result inHim ends up at. He called half the living players scum. That's not an exaggeration, I mean literally half. Conveniently, pretty much everyone who was a plausible lynch candidate, save for Valern, showed up on the death list. Then he never filtered the list down to a usable number. Or attacked anyone on the list. Or did anything with it at all for that matter. He just made a preposterous scumlist and sat on his ass.

His enitre slot before him lurked a ton, which I'm willing to say is more of a null-tell as a result of this (read to the lynch to find out why).

Okay, I read all of D3 AND RBT's iso in that game, and I have one question: what the fuck does it have to do with anything at all in this game? RBT scumhunted right out the gate (albeit in that stupid cryptic bullshit way he always does) so his situation in that game has precisely dick in common with AMP's in this one.

[Erratus Apathos]

Uh what? AMP was the only one discussing theory and not scumhunting. If it's so likely to discuss only theory at that stage, why was he the only one doing it?

He's a newb maybe?

Yep, and favoring theory arguments over scumhunting is a common newbscum mistake. QED.

That's not scumhunting, that's worthless crap. I'm not talking about the catching-up, which I didn't even bother reading because for whatever reason, replacement catch-up posts

always

have a lower signal-to-noise ratio than Glenn Beck. I'm talking about the result inHim ends up at. He called half the living players scum. That's not an exaggeration, I mean literally half. Conveniently, pretty much everyone who was a plausible lynch candidate, save for Valern, showed up on the death list. Then he never filtered the list down to a usable number. Or attacked anyone on the list. Or did anything with it at all for that matter. He just made a preposterous scumlist and sat on his ass.

Yeah, and hey there can be a wagon on half the players in a game on any given day.

Not all at once!

It's possible to be suspicious of more people than there are scum as not everyone is a perfect townie. Regardless, you seem to have ignored this (inevitably as a result of you not reading his posts):

We ought to be lynching one of {Pine, Peabody, Lucresia, Trendall} today.

Now isn't that a usable number?

Sure, and if that was the number he concluded on, I'd give you the point. But it ain't. His long period of not scumhunting happened while he had six targets, so that's what I'm going on.

RBT got lynched for lurking.

RBT got lynched

specifically

for lurking. This is not true of the case on inHim, which also includes AMP's theory-arguing, inHim leaving his net wide open, and

the entire slot not having cast a single serious vote the entire game

. Your comparison between the RBT lynch and the inHim wagon is invalid. Thank you, come again.

Enough about me, let me address others in the game.

This would be more accurate if it said "Enough about me, let me ask a single question to a single player and then go right back to talking about me."

Your convenience argument is just bullshit rhetoric.

VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe
VOTE: inHimshallibe

GAAAAAAHHHHH! WHY CAN'T INHIM BE DEAD ALREADY? NOTHING PISSES ME OFF SO MUCH AS A PATIENT TOWN!

In related news, I've done some reflecting on the game I played with Crazy!Scum since the flip in stance on me/defending of inhim and while I'm hesitant to give much weight to meta comparisons, I never saw Crazy defend his partner in that game, and certainly not so blatantly. When the heat turned up on Crazy's partner, Crazy distanced like hell and played uber-defensively. So if inhim flips scum, I'd actually be more inclined to say Crazy is probably town based on that (but if Crazy were independently scummy meta sure as hell wouldn't be enough to sway me away from lynching him).

Interesting, but one game isn't exactly statistically significant. Do you have any reason to believe distancing is the standard for CP's scum meta?

[Erratus Apathos]

DRK still hasn't made a content post yet this game. Let's cool it on the trigger finger there.

I don't have a gun, but if I did, I would take your advice and pull my finger off the trigger...

...BECAUSE I'D HAVE ALREADY USED UP ALL THE BULLETS BY NOW FROM SHOOTING INHIM'S SCUMMY ASS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE

I WANT INHIM DEAD NOW AND I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE

IS THAT CLEAR?

[Erratus Apathos]

I'll ask that no one hammers till inhim has claimed and we hear from DRK and Quilford.

I'LL ASK THAT EVERYONE DISREGARDS THIS AND HAMMERS ASAP

[Erratus Apathos]

Is there any particular reason you're not willing to wait for inhim to at least claim?

[Erratus Apathos]

wtf, no it doesn't

Quilford's iso 4:

I advise you all to look at AMP's slot.

AMP

- theory, no scumhunting

Meransiel

- one post, lulz

inHimshallibe

- he has asked absolutely no questions of people whatsoever (apart from here, but he answers his own question). Mainly, he has been posting large quotes and giving one-sentence opinions on them. Doesn't sound like scumhunting to me.

the only one he attacks for inactivity is Meransiel

[Erratus Apathos]

I want to hear these last words. Bitches better not hammer.

Oh don't worry, bitches won't be hammering. They'll be cowering in the corner, trembling at the mere thought of the hammer and trying to stall the lynch in hopes that the Information Fairy appears and leaves a hint under our pillow if the day goes on long enough. It's the real men you should be telling not to hammer.

[Erratus Apathos]

No I'm not. Stalling is anti-town, moving forward in a timely manner is pro-town.

[Erratus Apathos]