Mini 1265: Wickedestjr's Mini Normal- Game Over

[Uphill]

confirm

[Uphill]

VOTE: Soben

[Uphill]

I'm trying to get Soben lynched. What's not up with your vote?

[Uphill]

It's better than no lynch

[Uphill]

Vote: Uphill

"Trying to get Soben lynched" - Why? What for?

NOT ADMITTING JUST WAGONING

No shit? That's so obvious Ray Charles could see it, and Ray Charles is dead.

"What's

not

up with your vote?"

"OH LOOK AT ME I HAVE A VOTE AND YOU DONT, HO HO HO" weak deflection indicative of non-town motivations

Timeater: 1
Strawman: 0

Nice avoiding the question btw

"It's better than no lynch" - What the fuckmuffins?

Lynching an unknown is better than not lynching. Hence why I'm trying to do the former.

Votecount 1.1:

Soben - [2] - Odysseus, Uphill
Uphill - [2] - Katty Bard, Timeater
Odysseus - [1] - ScreamingHawk

Not Voting - [8] - bionicchop2, DemonHybrid, el simo, Gen_Wolf, redtail896, Soben, treznor, Yonzy

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 7 to no-lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2011-11-09 11:01:07)

[Uphill]

also, random lynches (and policy lynches especially) are bad, you rarely learn anything. More often than not, randomlynching hits a townie and is driven by scum + sheeptown who don't want to no-lynch.

Unless, of course, said scum is clumsy-herpin', in which case it's not random and scum gets lynched

HOLY INFORMATION INSTEAD OF ANALYSIS BATMAN

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Katty Bard

[Uphill]

lol you're just reaching now. My post was designed to explain to the masses why you are scum.

That's weird, I could have sworn that post doesn't mention my alignment even once. Now you're saying you posted it to explain why I am scum?

KATTY LYNCH

FULL THROTTLE

NO EXCUSES

also, random lynches (and policy lynches especially) are bad, you rarely learn anything. More often than not, randomlynching hits a townie and is

driven by scum

+ sheeptown who don't want to no-lynch.

Did you read what you posted?

As a matter of fact, I did read what I posted, and it sure as hell wasn't that

[Uphill]

Only an inexperienced player would think an earlygame page one vote would lead to an actual lynch, especially one with votes without any stated reasoning. I originally questioned his vote because of the predatory nature of if, which is fine really considering nobody had anything to work with. Wagoning Soben for purpose of wagon would have been entirely acceptable in my eyes. Wagons lead to conflict and information. Conflict leads to tells and reads. Reads lead to good lynches. Saying he's trying to get Soben lynched is false on two accounts: the first being that his vote actually means anything, the second being that he is not actually trying. He is not pushing any sort of Soben lynch.

If I can borrow your phrase for a moment, what the fuckmuffins? My vote pushes towards a lynch, and lynches obviously mean something. How was I not pushing a Soben lynch? I was voting him! What more do you expect, a case on a random lynch?

This falseness is reinforced by his second sentence which is sort of a challenge. Who am I to ask HIM anything when I haven't even voted? How scummy of me! A deflection. Why?

Oh I dunno, maybe FOR THE SAME EXACT REASON YOU ASKED ME THE SAME EXACT THING ABOUT MY VOTE? You know, to start forming reads on people?

My scumread is intensified when he says "lynching an unknown is better than not lynching". I approach this from a newbie angle. Lynching is not in the question right now. Any experienced player knows this. Not lynching is not on the table. This sort of strange wording is indicative of someone who doesn't exactly know whats going but is trying to parry with something that doesn't make too much sense.

Yes, I'm aware that 99 times out of a 100, there's not going to be a lynch decision during the random stage. That still doesn't change the following two facts:

A) At any given point in the game, a player has two choices: lynch, or do not lynch
B) Lynching an unknown is better than not lynching anyone

Therefore, even though I knew full well that Soben was unlikely to get lynched in the RVS, it was still the best play available.

edwop

Unless Uphill says he's actually a Reckoner(insert good mafiascum player here) alt, I'll buy that interpretation

Reckoner is in my other game, so if I said I was him I'd get banned for double dipping. You'll just have to pick some other good MS player for me to claim to be.

Where/why did you almost vote timeeater?

Almost voting somebody isn't something I tend to announce. I started typing a post directed at them because they were still pressing hard on a page 1 vote/post and then decided not to.

They were already in active conversations with a few people and I didn't think me openly disagreeing with their vote on uphill added anything to the process.

Adding a vote to timeater IMO wouldn't have done anything of value, so I decided not to.

In hindsight, I should have just posted it instead of not doing it and mentioning that I almost did. I ended up generating more thread clutter in my attempt to not add thread clutter. I think their case against uphill is rubbish. Does it warrant a vote? I think less information will come from me voting timeater than my current vote on screaming, so no.

So your strategy is let everyone else fight your battles for you? This is even better than Katty

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bionicchop2

[Uphill]

Because of those two points, I have no idea what you were actually trying to do or show in the post above. Number one is referring to this post where FightingShadow accidentally copied Katty's last post. FS even said at the top of his next post that he didn't mean to post it. I have three huge problems with this.
1) treznor didn't recongize this as Katty's and that was a couple pages ago meaning he wasn't reading then.
2) This post makes absolutely no since from either Time or Fighting's PoV and that should have struck trez as odd but the only thing he posted about it is that he didn't bold the unvote. Still not reading/not really looking?
3) He didn't read the second post closely enough to even see FS apologising for this miss-post.
4) trez's second point is absolutely horrid and it doesn't matter if a post is linked or not.

Treznor specifically called Fighting's post a quote:

"Please don't quote people without actually using the quote feature"

. eg, he recognized Fighting's post as a quote of Katty's and asked Fighting to use the quote tags to make it more clear where the quote begins and ends. How are you coming to the conclusion that he didn't recognize it as a quote? And seeing as how Fighting's botch is at the end of the page and the fixed version is on the next page, I'd bet all the money that Trez just didn't notice there was another page.

I'm doing a complete 180 on Katty here after reading 186. I just can't see that post being illegitimate. Katty is town.

Treznor is town. I don't buy the argument that he contradicted himself re: IIOA, and 165 is another good example of townposting.

Odysseus, Redtail, Soben, Yonzy all read town.

Bionic still reads scum.

el simo reads scum. The way he called my jump on Bionic good, without having mentioned Bionic anywhere else, comes off as phony appeasement.

If neither of those two are the lynch today I'd be okay with lynching GenWolf or ScreamingHawk, or to a lesser extent DemonHybrid or Fighting.

[Uphill]

Uphill - Curious where he has gone after the offensive start.

I went to the happeningly hip city of Not-Having-Anything-New-to-Sayville for a day there.

What do you think about his selection of Ok lynches, who he doesn't comment on?

Those are what you'd call "null-reads", but I actually like the name "OK lynches". Sounds more positive that way. I don't actually have a read on them, but as per my "lynching an unknown > not lynching" philosophy, I would be okay with a lynch on someone in that category.

You're wrong, Uphill. FS used quotes for his big post but he didn't have the part that links to the post that the quote was taken from. That is what treznor was talking about when he asked to use the quote feature. I know this because there's no other way that his bolding the unvote comment makes sense otherwise. FS never unvoted, he only voted trez and the only time it looked even remotely like that was when he accidentally copied Katty's post. Further proof that he's not reading can be found by the fact that Katty's post was actually in FS's big post and trez still didn't notice.

Wait, what? You're saying that because the only way "bolding the unvote" makes sense is in reference to 174, "quote feature" must therefore be a reference to the lack of links in the quotes in 175? Because that makes, like, negative infinity sense.

Treznor's post is a lot more sensible if you look at it from the point of view of someone who only read page 7. "bolding the unvote" makes sense if he didn't realize the UNVOTE was from Katty's post and thought Fighting was trying to unvote, and "quote feature" makes sense if he saw the failed Katty quote and thought Fighting didn't know about quote tags.

That humor aside, I would love to see you outline your reasons I am scum. I know a lot has happened in the 2 days since you posted, so take your time and make a clear case so others can agree or disagree with it.

It's still the same as last time, nothing has changed my opinion since then.

Post 25: Most unnecessary post tbh. Him accusing him time of avoiding the question just screamed scummy to me because it really wasn't a question in the first place

what.

the.

FUCK.

Timeater asked me about my random vote, and I answered. Then I turned around and stole his question and used it against his non-vote. So how exactly does that process make that question no longer a question? Did a powerful archwizard whose only spell is to turn questions into other things make me his bitch?

[Uphill]

I went to the happeningly hip city of Not-Having-Anything-New-to-Sayville for a day there.

That should never be an excuse not to post. That's more of a way to avoid saying something that might give someone a scumread on you.

why would I post if I have nothing to say

and more importantly, what would I post?

what.

the.

FUCK.

Timeater asked me about my random vote, and I answered. Then I turned around and stole his question and used it against his non-vote. So how exactly does that process make that question no longer a question? Did a powerful archwizard whose only spell is to turn questions into other things make me his bitch?

Saying "what's

not

up with your vote?" is not a question at all tbh. It's more of just a comeback you said to sound clever. Then when he replied with something clever all you said was "Oh you're avoiding the question"
After that going on to using sarcasm for I don't knwo what purpose it really served just seemed like a desperate attempt to make yourself sound clever.

no, it's a QUESTION I said to sound clever. I honestly don't get why you think it's not a question.

[Uphill]

@Uphill

: You can post your opinion about a post that has already been posted. Sure someone might have the same opinion, but it's better if everyone knows everyone else's opinion. (Get what i mean?idk that sounded confusing a little >.<)

Yeah, but see, I didn't actually have any new opinions. And when I'm talking about new opinions, I don't mean an opinion nobody has said, I mean an opinion

I

haven't said. I can't say something new if I legitimately don't have anything new to say.

This time, however, I definitely have something new to say:

ScreamingHawk is town. 229 is blatant townposting, there's no other way to describe it. It's transparent as all hell and the tone is that of a person who knows he's right.

[Uphill]

Uphill, you will need to explain your Screaming town read for me because I don't see it at all, what about his tone reads town and how is 'that of a person who knows he's right' ever a town-tell?

Because scum are wrong and they know it. They accuse players of being scum that they know not to be scum, and deny accusations of being scum that they know to be true. Therefore, they cannot genuinely believe the things they are saying. Town of course can and do believe what they say.

The wagon on ScreamingHawk brought up a decent number of questionable plays against him, and it brought all the attention on him in a hurry. Yet he doesn't act like he's done anything wrong. He just puts out the answers to all the points brought out against him, with full confidence that these answers are indeed correct. In particular, the bolded words here:

I did think timeater was looking scum, but the ragequit left me wtf about his slot. Was probably just trying to stir something up. Since then FS has seemed very town, thus Null-town when takinn timeater into account, and more town when I ignore Timeater.

What was the problem here again?

and here:

I don't see the problem with this.

They are mutually exclusive events.
Ody currently looks town and trenzor looks scum.
IF trenzor FLIPPED scum, then I'd put Ody as a partner. (I should have said flipped in my post)
Until he flips I'm not going to make a complete association joining the two. The would just be stupid.

are the words of someone who

knows

he wasn't doing anything wrong.

I'll be perfectly honest with you, at this point it almost seems like you are just attempting to differ yourself from the norms opinion and push your own alternate one at each turn just for the sake of being different. It's something I did a long time ago and it's not something I recommend.

I wouldn't disagree with everyone if the alternative wasn't so wrong.

[Uphill]

I haven't played with a JK in a long time. The role has always been a little weird to me, because I don't think it is as great as it seems on the surface.

I think the pros of lynching SH mafia outweigh the cons of lynching SH as jailkeeper. Not to guess game setup, but if he is legit JK, then I don't see a second protection role being available to keep them from night death, so we gain little by not lynching him at this point. If he is mafia and we don't lynch him, we possibly mislynch on someone else (odds of being maf decreased), possible waste of PRs on him at night (protection, investigation, etc.).

I am going to VOTE: ScreamingHawk and put them back at

L-1

This post analyzes the value of Hawk's claim, rather than the likelihood that it is legitimate. That is what scum do to push mislynches on PRs, and it's a very good scumtell. Not only that, but the actual analysis of this post is crap as well. If Hawk is legit JK, we gain a lot by not lynching him, specifically we gain NOT MISLYNCHING. If Choppy was legitimately thinking this through this way, he wouldn't have glossed over that. But he did, because he's not legitimately thinking this through - he's trying to ensure that the Hawk mislynch goes through.

CONFIRM VOTE ON BIONICCHOP2

[Uphill]

I thought SH was most likely to be scum based on the fact I had my vote on them prior to their claim, so don't act like my vote is based only on their claim.

Duh? That's not even what I'm talking about. I'm talking SPECIFICALLY about your unvote to decide if you believed the claim, and then revote that didn't actually have anything to do with whether or not you believed the claim.

They have been at L-1 for 2 days and several people asked for claims. He posted elsewhere on the site. If I was a PR at L-1, I think that would be one of my priority games.

And if you were scum at L-1, you'd dick around? Hope everyone on your wagon suddenly gets ADD?

THIS IS WHY THIS HAWK WAGON IS SO FUCKING INFURIATING. IT'S LIKE EVERYONE THINKS:

1) HAWK WAITED TO CLAIM
2) ???????????????????
3) HAWK IS SCUM

WITH NOBODY FILLING IN NUMBER TWO.

PR is not a get out of jail free card to not read the game. Most people LOVE having a PR. If he was JK, he would be focusing much harder and trying to figure out who to jail at night.

How do you know what Hawk would do as a JK? Have you ever seen him play as a JK? Are you married to him, and he talks about what he'd do as a JK in bed all night, inducing torturous insomnia that leaves you wondering what happened to your life, where is it going, and would you be happier if you'd never said those two little words?

Let's analyze your post now uphill:

he's trying to ensure that the Hawk mislynch goes through.

What knowledge do you have not available to everybody else? You seem to

know

SH is town based on this statement.

I do

know

he's town. I'm infinity percent sure he's town, with a margin of error +/-3. This knowledge isn't unavailable to everybody else, in fact, I've been posting it publicly myself where everyone can read it.

Or is this just based on your misguided tunneling of me? You have already assumed I am scum, so will base every other opinion you have on that one false idea.

CONFIRM VOTE ON BIONICCHOP2

I remembered the bold this time

Just because I say stuff that doesn't fit into typical thinking. People treat PRs like they should be worshipped.

Seriously? You're going to act like you're going

against the grain

by pushing Hawk? Let's get all Sesame Street up in this bitch.

lynching SH seems to have more advantages than not.

ONE! ONE PERSON PUSHING HAWK!

screaminghawk + timeater + lurker.

TWO! TWO PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

I'm ready to lay down the hammer.

THREE! THREE PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

Fake claim IMO.

FOUR! FOUR PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

Yeah, this dude is probably mafia.

FIVE! FIVE PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

I want the SH lynch to go through as well.

SIX! SIX PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

Re ScreamingHawk: the contradictions noted by others are pretty good, and I can see the argument that he's sheeping most readings. I also don't understand where his argument for a Trez-Ody pair comes from. Also the misrep of Uphill feels really bad to me.

UNVOTE: VOTE: ScreamingHawk

SEVEN! SEVEN PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

I'm still very much in support of a SH-lynch at this point unless someone can explain some new town tell from his recent posts that doesn't boil down to being afraid to lynch a town pr d1.

EIGHT! EIGHT PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

ScreamingHawk: You are at L-1. Time to claim! Your reticence to claim makes me think even more than you are scum.

NINE! NINE PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK!

I do not believe that claim lol.

TEN! TEN PEOPLE PUSHING HAWK! AH AH AH!

Sorry, you're not a rebel, you're a sheep, baa baa baa.

Although while doing this, I noticed one name missing from that list, FightingShadow, who's doing his damndest to fence-sit Hawk. He just jumped so high up my scumlist he'll burn up on reentry. I'm calling it now, bionic + Shadow + either simo or GenWolf.

[Uphill]

What the fuck? I'm clearly not disagreeing just for the sake of disagreeing! I even explained how I came to the conclusion that Hawk is town, and it was absolutely not "hey everyone look at how rebelliously badass I am for calling Hawk town"! I know at least one of each of your guys' heads have read and acknowledged my explanation for my Hawk town read, so if you're not one of those heads, could you please consult with a head that did and knock it off with this shit?

[Uphill]

I could and can see where your town-read on him comes from but you've completely ignored his incredibly ungeninue claim and ignored all the points put forward for why it's fake just to stick with your 'different' read.

All the points put forward for why it's fake pretty much boil down to "well that's not how you're SUPPOSED to play jailkeeper" with no actual evidence that it's something scum would do or town would not do (or better yet, something that Hawk scum would do or Hawk town would not do), so I'm just going to keep right on ignoring them and calling Hawk town.

[Uphill]

After Odysseus's case on DemonHybrid I looked at him in iso to see how he handled Hawk, here are all his mentions of Hawk:

Wow this game has taken off quick. Anywho...

Timeater reads town - aggressive but that's all good.
Treznor reads nub-null / null-scum - opinions are swayed very easy. backing down very quickly. can't handle pressure either becuase new or scum and doesn't want confrontation.
Odysseus reads town - generally nice amount of information for so early on. May need to check his meta later (fill me in if you know)
redtail reads null - why did you unvote someone with only your vote on him (and mine from RVS but who cares) - no harm leaving it there until you have someone else to vote for?
Soben reads town - you seem nice.
Uphill reads town - not much to say here.

Anyone else needs to make a bigger impression.

I'll be back on in hour or so

Also should chuck this in UNVOTE: VOTE: Treznor
Wassup son?

Filmsy analysis is my meta.

wait, what

Unvote, Vote: ScreamingHawk

DH, I don't feel like him saying flimsy analysis is my meta warrants a vote at all.

Also, this is only my third game on this site so join date/experience doesn't have much to do with alignment.

it wasn't just the "flimsy analysis" meta, it was the weak ass hop onto the treznor wagon and the one line reads

screaminghawk + timeater + lurker. it is NOT katty bard and I don't know why you're so obsessed with that read

right now my vote is on SH regardless.

ScreamingHawk - I don't believe the claim. Others have been making good points against him. It's the biggest wagon. He's lurky and on the defensive. Just no.

[snip]

I'm sticking with my SH vote. Hammer when ready.

What really struck me wasn't his low content on Hawk, but the fact that for all his low content on Hawk he was pushing Timeater a lot harder. In particular, he posts a huge wall of quote-stripes against Timeater in 141, while he's voting Hawk, that exceeds everything he ever posts about Hawk

combined

. That makes me think he wasn't interested in getting the Hawk wagon going at all, despite the fact that that's where his vote was!

I don't suspect Bionic any more, his push on Hawk doesn't look like a bus at all. I'm still suspicious of Shadow for fence-sitting Hawk, but I think Hybrid is scummier, and Hybrid being scum with Timeater is rather silly, so I doubt I'll vote Shadow today.

VOTE: DemonHybrid

And if it's not obvious, I support Wolf using his shot on Hybrid.

[Uphill]

IMO simo makes a lot more sense as third scum than Yonzy

but those are the only two people I can actually see it being, so Yonzy getting investigated is fine

[Uphill]

VOTE: Yonzy

[Uphill]

Want some sauce with your hat?

[Uphill]

VOTE: bionicchop2

[Uphill]

Well at least I wasn't a

complete

idiot day 1

Good game everyone