Mini 1265: Wickedestjr's Mini Normal- Game Over

[bionicchop2]

/confirm

[bionicchop2]

VOTE: treznor for RVing after discussion had started and then immediately unvoting when timeeater called them out on it.

FoS

Gen_Wolf for also RVing after discussions had start it. Was 1st to do this, but treznor is slightly scummier for backing off and actually unvoting it.

Waiting for vote count to see if odysseus is actual double voter. I assume so since there is no good reason to fake it.

[bionicchop2]

I'm more inclined to think of you and Katty Bard as town-fighting at the moment

Also, this is a rather bold statement since there is very little information on either.

Town read on both already?

[bionicchop2]

flippant / random is semantics. I didn't mean you actually picked a name out of a hat. RV for me means that the vote has no meaning behind it and is not based on thinking that person is scum.

[bionicchop2]

I'd also like to note Treznor just powerlurked out of the game. Scum.

What does that mean? Powerlurked?

I would actually like to know this too.

[bionicchop2]

Gen_Wolf, ScreamingHawk and Yonzy - It is time for you three to be pro-town and join the discussion. Please produce game-relevant words as soon as possible. Thank you.

I will review Soben's accusations of me after I grab a sandwich to fuel my reading/typing.

[bionicchop2]

Sure, Bionic joined the game by voting and FoSing people who RVS'ed when there was dicussion that occurred which is generally a null-tell and a sign of a weaker player thus an easier lynch to push. Furthermore while he does this he himself doesn't state his thoughts on any of the discussion that had happened.

I guess the crux of your accusation is here, so I will respond to this. I won't get into a back and forth about it, so just take my response and file it away.

Your first assumption is that my vote on trez would be followed with a push to lynch them based on that single action. My vote in conjunction with the prior vote on him resulted in trez explaining himself a little better. If I had another good place for my vote, I likely would have moved it already. I came close to shifting it over to timeater, but they seem to be posting enough that they will give me a good amount of information regardless of a vote at this early stage.

As for "he does this himself", I don't see how you can call my vote on Trez a random vote. I never said Trez had to look at every current conversation and make a comment about each. I just know that when they voted, the game was hopping already and they could have found something of value to discuss.

I don't plan to dissect every back and forth between players and add my 2 cents. I certainly hope that others follow this as well. If I see something that I need to address, I certainly will, but if not I don't need to add clutter to a conversation.

[bionicchop2]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: screaminghawk

Explain your vote on treznor and your flimsy player analysis. You left some active players off the list.

[bionicchop2]

Where/why did you almost vote timeeater?

Almost voting somebody isn't something I tend to announce. I started typing a post directed at them because they were still pressing hard on a page 1 vote/post and then decided not to. They were already in active conversations with a few people and I didn't think me openly disagreeing with their vote on uphill added anything to the process. Adding a vote to timeater IMO wouldn't have done anything of value, so I decided not to.

In hindsight, I should have just posted it instead of not doing it and mentioning that I almost did. I ended up generating more thread clutter in my attempt to not add thread clutter. I think their case against uphill is rubbish. Does it warrant a vote? I think less information will come from me voting timeater than my current vote on screaming, so no.

[bionicchop2]

Filmsy analysis is my meta. Also Soben's analysis in #66 got no remarks from you about being filmsy. That was merely a town/scum list. No reasoning at all.

I'm going to post this anyway so you can see my train of thought but I was skim reading before and after going through ISO case is very weak. I don't have a strong scum read on anyone really at this point so vote stays.

Also people I missed didn't stick out while I was skimming through. Sorry about that.

1. self-meta is self-meta.

2. Soben had prefaced their list with an earlier post that stated some town reads.

3. I can accept that it was a quicklist off a skim read depending on how your play develops though and if the thoughts go any deeper. IMO, the exclusion of me on the list just struck me as odd since I had been fairly active right before you posted, yet you included redtail who hadn't said much. I feel I am an active enough player in general that other players should get some kind of a read on me - even if it is decidedly null. Excluding players would have also seemed less odd if you didn't have a list of mostly null reads.

[bionicchop2]

@bionicchop2 - I wanted meta on you before I came to any conclusion.

There is none currently. All my old games don't show up in my post history. The games are either archived or gone or something. I was inactive for like 2 years. In one active game, but no completed games for review.

[bionicchop2]

So your strategy is let everyone else fight your battles for you? This is even better than Katty

You are right. I should say "me too" if I agree with something just to add another post to my post count. It isn't a battle until I think someone is scum. Until then I am gathering information. If I feel the best way for me to do that in a particular situation is to not disrupt a conversation between 2 or more players, that is the route I will go.

[bionicchop2]

-iso #2 meh, maybe its just me but when I see someone discussing bussing early on I usually think scum, because scum are in the mindset from pregame that they may have to bus to win or at least are thinking about their options. Town aren't thinking of bringing up bussing, because well, they are town.

shh let him bus his buddies first

Unvote, Vote: treznor

. yuck. Go ahead, timeater, you can bus him.

Interesting thesis.

=================

In other news, I would like to see how Katty responds today. I am always weary of people who use claims of illness during games. It is a specific AtE that gets under my skin, especially when brought up unprovoked. I don't doubt the migrane, but I don't see the value of posting it except to gain sympathy. If your head hurts and you are going to be 'brief and incomplete', it is probably best to just rest and then come back when you can focus on a better post.

I will see how she comes back today before making any further judgment on it.

[bionicchop2]

odysseus

- Why did you fake double voter?

IGMEOY

[bionicchop2]

odysseus

- Why did you fake double voter?

IGMEOY

why is a faked action indicative of scummy?

IGMEOY =/= I think you are scum. It means I am watching closely based on this. When he first did it, I looked up the role to see if it was a town roll and if it was a normal role since role knowledge is something I lack in. I asked about it today because I was going to press redtail on their earlier vote for odysseus. The wiki on double voter gave me the impression that it is way too powerful to be a scum role (though it did not say it CAN'T be). I was about to post it and then realized I never checked to see if it actually counted twice.

Now it is on me to determine if their response seems legit and if I think it was town or scum motivated. Initial reaction to their response is that it is legit and town motivated. Their post that came up the same time I posted was very thorough, so I do remain a little wary that they are good enough to draw attention to themselves and present what seems like a logical response to the question.

Still watching them, but right now I think both odysseus and soben are playing protown and seem most active in their scumhunting.

[bionicchop2]

I've played an embarrassing number of games on EM.

FYI, I am MrShow/bionicchop2 there. If you have played with me there it may help you read me here.

Godamnit, bionicchop2, stop using appreviations. I swear this feels like the eighth time I've had to google what the crap you guys are saying.

Research is healthy and it will help you in the future. You can thank me later.

[bionicchop2]

bionicchop2; I don't recongize you. I'm LOLUMAD on EM but I retired a little over six months ago. (Retro)

Sooooooo any opinions on my second case for Katty?

Ahh. I quit a long time ago before the comp lobby (similar to here) and started playing again a few months back.

======

As far as Katty goes, I understand the issue and I don't see any flaw in the suspicion, but would really like to see how Katty responds the rest of the day since that one post reads to me more like new player than scum. We are dealing with only 7 posts from them and 5 of them are minimal.

If I check Katty's post history on the site, I find her post from joining on the 19th. She states she has some off-site experience and has been lurking this site. Was previously intimidated and hesitated to sign up. That is a post that is independent of a game situation and would have no reason to be misleading.

So imagine being a new player on the site, intimidated by the experienced players and seeing your 1st game take off rather quickly. You want to join in, but you don't know how. You don't know how to scumhunt really and you remember reading somewhere that random lynches were bad. I could see a player in this situation posting this way.

I know I am giving a whole backstory in my head, but I try to understand the motivation behind someone's posts. In this case I am giving leeway for some D1 jitters. On the flipside, you have given her a whole backstory from a scum perspective. Possible, but not probable, and certainly not as cut and dry as you are presenting it. After the game she may tell us that we were both wrong and her cat typed it, but she was afraid to tell us.

[bionicchop2]

I've read read your post a couple times now and I can't figure what side of the spectrum your Katty read is on. If you had to rank Katty on my 1-10 scale, where would you place her?

You probably can't figure out what side I am on because I am dead center, so 5 based on your scale. Just not enough info based on the few posts.

[bionicchop2]

I'd go along with Katty being scum if it weren't primarily based on the whole 'someone that explains themselves to much is probably scum' theory... I do that myself way too much (regardless of towniness), so it's tough to attribute it to someone else while knowing that I do the same thing as well when playing as town. Certainly not a town read for me though, null-to-scum.

I've gotten the scum vibe from Katty Bard for a while and Odysseus' posts have solidified my reasoning a bit. I'm a big supporter of IIoA as scummy as well (recognizing though that sometimes town will do the same thing as you just don't always have the analysis to post).

UNVOTE:
VOTE: treznor

These posts seem to be in direct conflict with each other. Am I reading the first post wrong? If you are a big supporter of IIoA = scummy, why were you hesitant in your previous post when the case against her was clearly IIoA.

preview edit: Seems you hadn't caught up to the thread. Still doesn't explain your contradiction, but I was curious why you didn't see Odysseus had slightly shifted in their stance, so at least that is explained.

[bionicchop2]

trez did a good job of refuting his point and I'm interested to see what bio will do next after that post.

We have a different opinion of good job.

My issue is not that Trez shifted a little on the Katty read. We all adjust reads during play and they indicated they thought Katty was scummy.

The issue is that they initially presented that they didn't see IIoA as a scum tell since they admit to doing it as town. By nature that makes it a nulltell for them. Then the next post does a 180 and he states how he sees IIoA as a big scumtell (then again puts in parenthesis that they admit to doing it as town). Just by stating the logic doesn't make sense doesn't allow someone to ignore the fact the the logic doesn't make sense.

"X is always a scumtell except when I do it as town" is not something I view as an acceptable reason to vote somebody.

I mean, he even goes on to make an IIoA type post here:

FightingShadow, 2 points:
1) You'll need to bold your unvote if you want it to count.
2) Please don't quote people without actually using the quote feature as then we can't tell what's going on, especially if I don't specifically remember that someone else said that already.

Because of those two points, I have no idea what you were actually trying to do or show in the post above.

And then as you point out, he doesn't even recognize that this is one of the 7 posts from the person he is voting (and 1 of the 2 with any real content). This is the only post from Katty between his post #98 and his post #162. I could understand if it was somebody he wasn't voting for. I am not expecting memorization of the thread or scrutinizing every word, but this is the person he feels is the most scummy in the game.

[bionicchop2]

LOL. Classic case of me typing a post that takes 20 minutes because I am doing other stuff for work at the same time. Should have previewed and seen you already comment on the fact he didn't recognize it was the quote of someone he was voting.

[bionicchop2]

iso #8: What made you feel that your vote for SH would provide more information than a vote for Timeater?
His isos (1, 2, 18) make good points against trez; I'll see how I feel about him after I go through his iso.

Because people were discussing timeater, nobody was discussing SH.

I don't see where SH makes good points against treznor. He doesn't have 18 posts, so I don't know which isos you are referencing. Please directly quote what you felt was a good case at the time I switched my vote to SH.

[bionicchop2]

If neither of those two are the lynch today I'd be okay with lynching GenWolf

lol @ LAL

That humor aside, I would love to see you outline your reasons I am scum. I know a lot has happened in the 2 days since you posted, so take your time and make a clear case so others can agree or disagree with it.

[bionicchop2]

bionicchop2 - Null-town. Has some valid points, and asks a lot of questions about other peoples play. Generally seem pro-town. Would like to see a list of your reads at some point.

Eh. Don't know if those do much good. I think most people should cut their null tells from their lists. It just doesn't serve much of a purpose. If I haven't stated I see somebody as either scummy or town, then I don't have a good enough read on them to make it worth saying. I have stated my biggest town reads (odysseus and soben - though ody in the far lead for the way that they seem to be looking at things from all angles). My current biggest scum read is on treznor. Honestly still have you floating around there, though your posts have gotten better. Some of the stuff you say just strikes me as odd, but I haven't quite put a finger on what. I read your posts and seem to find myself making a squiggly face. Uphill is creeping up because I always get wary when somebody just points at me and says I am scum without a whole lot of elaboration. We'll see how they develop their case on me and I will re-evaluate then. If they don't develop one or say stuff I feel is twisting my words, they shift to scummy. If they make points I think are legitimate scum hunting efforts, they shift to town.

Odysseus - I dislike hydras, they are hard to read. This being said I like the way you analysis from both perspectives in #160. I’ll give that a go later. You’re town in my book at this point. Great scumhunting so I’d keep you around. If Katty flipped scum I’d expect to be on the chopping block, but I really don’t see it at this point so sticking to the defense.

This is a part that makes my face squiggly (I assume you mean you expect odysseus to be on the chopping block). I dislike players making associations prior to learning alignments. If/Then statements skew towards scummy for me, so I guess it is more scummy than just odd. You have worded in a way though that sounds like an if/then, but you are projecting it onto others, like others would put him on the chopping block. It disassociates yourself from the action.

ScreamingHawk - TOWN

squiggly face for self-inclusion

If trenzor is scum then Ody would be a pair.

Ahh there it is.

#166 is another claim to be newbie / learning, and after 50 / 75 games... I would expect different. Scummiest read.

It is a pretty quick check to find out their experience. I do have in the back of my head that my scum reads from him could be newbie reads, but I don't quite get the same feel as I did when checking on Katty. If you look though, he played 2 games on this site 5 years ago (you can see it an intro post in one of his newbie games). He has mafia experience though that seems more extensive than Katty, but the game does change depending on site/game medium.

the conclusion that BC and al simo are scum but then say you won't lynch them?

(in regards to Uphill) - Reread his post. You are misinterpreting what he said. He is voting me and has no objection to my lynch, but basically said if he can't get the lynch he wants he would be OK with those others.

[bionicchop2]

I can get back on this SH wagon for sure.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: screaming hawk

Those contradictions pointed out by odysseus and soben are more likely to be scum motivated than the one I thought I saw from Treznor. It implies SH was just posting fluff and didn't genuinely have reads on any of those people. Seeing el simo's comment that they were frustrated by Treznor last game for not reading chunks of the game shows this is their norm. I still feel they contradicted them self, but I am in the minority so there is a chance it is just a perception issue on my end.

[bionicchop2]

Question for everyone: DH said he'd be back soon, don't you think we should wait for him to catch up and give some reads before we lynch SH? I'm not trying to deter from his lynch and I still support it. My DH is read so null and I'd like to have something from him pre-flip to judge him on. Obviously reads change after the flip and NK. So I'd like to get a better handle on where DH is now to compare to later. Also where is Gen?

If you think someone is scum (SH), I see no reason to wait for somebody on that wagon to express that they still want to be there. If you had doubts in your read or were considering voting elsewhere, then sure ask for opinions or something to reinforce your original read. Otherwise, proceed with those who care enough to be active IMO.

[bionicchop2]

SH is getting lynched today unless something drastic happens. So I couldn't care less who is voting SH, I care WHY they are voting. DH is literally voting SH because he said flimsy analysis is his meta. You think that is lynch worthy? I sure as hell don't and that stands true to most people in this game because we didn't vote SH when he said it. And you honestly can't wait half a day to see what DH thinks of what's been happening before it's influenced by flips? I'm tempted to unvote just to spite you because this post annoyed me so much.

Question the motive once you have gotten the result you wanted.

Here is my issue. You are voting somebody you think is scum (A). You start questioning somebody (B) voting that same person. Let's lay out a scenario where A is scum and B is town. The case against A is pretty solid and there are no current distractions. You question the motives of B and you create opportunity for that distraction (something drastic). Partners of A now have something they can logically cling to without looking too bad and they can do it after a jump off from somebody most have called very protown. You also run the risk of creating several pages of town/town fighting. It doesn't take a whole lot to derail a lynch vote. It takes even less when it is correct and there are players in the game looking for those opportunities.

Now the flip of that is A town, B scum. That would require you seeing a chance A is town and the wagon is wrong.

A town + B town - then either direction it goes is wrong.

A scum + B scum - either direction it goes is correct.

My theory since I have started playing again is that you should never question somebody on the same wagon as you unless you start to suspect your vote is on a town player. There are few advantages to pressing that person until you know the alignment of the lynch target. I am sure there will be disagreement on that point, but that is how I feel.

[bionicchop2]

YOu know what? For some reason I thought you were asking for DH to explain his read on SH. You were clearly asking for his general reads in your initial post. Your follow up post did imply you were suspect of DH's motivations (which is what my last post was mostly in response to), but that was after I had already misunderstood your initial post.

My rant does not apply to asking for general reads. I do stand by it for what it is though (not questioning votes that align with your own).

[bionicchop2]

It looks like SH posted in another game several times yesterday, but never followed up on the Redtail post they said they would make saturday. His next post needs to have a claim in it.

[bionicchop2]

UNVOTE: to put at L-2 while we mull over the claim.

Votecount 1.10:

ScreamingHawk - [5] - DemonHybrid, Odysseus, Soben, redtail896, treznor
treznor - [2] - FightingShadow, ScreamingHawk
Katty Bard - [1] - el simo
el simo - [1] - Gen_Wolf
bionicchop2 - [1] - Uphill
DemonHybrid - [1] - Yonzy

Not Voting - [2] - Katty Bard, bionicchop2

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 7 to no-lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2011-11-09 11:01:07)

[bionicchop2]

I haven't played with a JK in a long time. The role has always been a little weird to me, because I don't think it is as great as it seems on the surface.

I think the pros of lynching SH mafia outweigh the cons of lynching SH as jailkeeper. Not to guess game setup, but if he is legit JK, then I don't see a second protection role being available to keep them from night death, so we gain little by not lynching him at this point. If he is mafia and we don't lynch him, we possibly mislynch on someone else (odds of being maf decreased), possible waste of PRs on him at night (protection, investigation, etc.).

I am going to VOTE: ScreamingHawk and put them back at

L-1

[bionicchop2]

You forgot to bold your confirm vote to make it count extra hard.

I thought SH was most likely to be scum based on the fact I had my vote on them prior to their claim, so don't act like my vote is based only on their claim. They have been at L-1 for 2 days and several people asked for claims. He posted elsewhere on the site. If I was a PR at L-1, I think that would be one of my priority games. So yeah, the value in possibly getting scum D1 vs the value of possibly saving a tricky PR in the hands of an irresponsible player acting scummy (who would likely die that night) seems to be pretty straightforward to me.

PR is not a get out of jail free card to not read the game. Most people LOVE having a PR. If he was JK, he would be focusing much harder and trying to figure out who to jail at night.

Let's analyze your post now uphill:

he's trying to ensure that the Hawk mislynch goes through.

What knowledge do you have not available to everybody else? You seem to

know

SH is town based on this statement. Or is this just based on your misguided tunneling of me? You have already assumed I am scum, so will base every other opinion you have on that one false idea.

[bionicchop2]

I am going to LOL so hard if this derails.

SH is getting lynched today unless something drastic happens.

Ask yourself what advantage there is for me to push on a JK claim as mafia. If you see me as any sort of reasonable person, the best play for mafia-bionicchop would be to stay quiet and post nothing. I could easily mix into the sea of non-posters. Just because I say stuff that doesn't fit into typical thinking. People treat PRs like they should be worshipped.

Sorry, when I weight the pros and cons of the current situation, lynching SH seems to have more advantages than not.

preview:have to catch up on new posts, but have to get this work thing done 1st.

[bionicchop2]

Odysseus - I am pretty sure that would violate something. It is kind of a moot point anyway if the mod is having limited access and wouldn't be able to even post a votecount. Technically I don't think anybody even qualifies for a prod (game has 72 hour limit for 1st prod). Game has just settled into a slower pace and we need to adjust to it. I have slowed my posting down since the game was becoming a much smaller mini-game of active players.

Code: Select all

Username Last Posted In Thread Elapsed Time Post Count
Odysseus 2011-11-01 18:25:40 0 days 0 hours 55
treznor 2011-10-31 20:45:34 0 days 21 hours 45
bionicchop2 2011-10-31 20:53:43 0 days 21 hours 33
Soben 2011-11-01 15:11:02 0 days 3 hours 31
Timeater 2011-10-26 15:48:53 6 days 2 hours 22
ScreamingHawk 2011-11-01 15:28:56 0 days 3 hours 17
DemonHybrid 2011-10-30 15:22:41 2 days 3 hours 17
Uphill 2011-11-01 17:59:45 0 days 0 hours 17
el simo 2011-10-31 21:40:20 0 days 21 hours 16
redtail896 2011-10-30 01:17:31 2 days 17 hours 13
Katty Bard 2011-11-01 14:20:33 0 days 4 hours 10
Yonzy 2011-11-01 17:05:37 0 days 1 hour 10
Wickedestjr 2011-11-01 15:24:15 0 days 3 hours 9
FightingShadow 2011-10-30 11:54:55 2 days 6 hours 9
Gen_Wolf 2011-10-31 19:08:34 0 days 23 hours 6 

I don't know how to format that any cleaner, so just pasted the game activity. Makes you miss timeater.

[bionicchop2]

I am going to take a stab at guessing why you have your reads that way.

DH - 1st to vote on goon without much of an explained case.
Redtail - popping in occasionally without saying a whole lot

Obviously you see this as a hard bus for town cred and have picked the two you feel contributed least to the lynch.

Gen - lack of contribution
Katty - carry over from your original scum read

I get a little hazy as to why you have el simo and yonzy listed so high though. I am interested in looking closer at both of those.

Uphill followed their own suspicion and aggressively pursued it. Defended SH, but no need to hard defend a goon there as a partner.

Soben was actively scumhunting all day.

FS? This one I don't see why it is so high.

I guess for me things are a little more bottom heavy. My town reads are Soben, Odysseus and Uphill. katty and Gen sit middle of the road for me. All the others sit in a pool I need to narrow down further.

[bionicchop2]

Some good points being made, but I am going to reserve any additional judgement until we hear from Yonzy, DH, el simo, FS and Uphill who have yet to post today. Add to that gen wolf has made another non-post so he may as well be included with those other 5.

[bionicchop2]

Gen_Wolf, I don't think claiming without having used your shot was the right move because now there's the possibility of you being roleblocked and potentially losing your shot completely but your claim essentially makes you confirmed town which makes this game all the more easy.

He claimed day-shot. Can't be day role blocked, can he?

[bionicchop2]

lack of preview = timing of post fail

[bionicchop2]

With that out there, he should have just saved the claim until he was in danger of being lynched. DV that ends the day is a great lylo tool, but not very helpful at this stage.

[bionicchop2]

There is a striking similarity between the tone of that claim and the tone of SH's claim.

[bionicchop2]

I support a massclaim now.

Not yet IMO. Let Katty claim and see if we need to go further.

preview edit: Again, I am late to the party.

[bionicchop2]

Massclaim is not taboo, I just feel there are better times for them. If we lynch/shoot DH and it ends up he was telling the truth, we are left with other roles being exposed. If we have any kind of investigative roles, it would be nice for them to remain hidden a little longer so they can get more info.

[bionicchop2]

I have seen cop + doc + vig + 2 neighbors though neighbors are never confirmed and none of those are auto-clears (well I guess normal vig and dayvig are close enough).

[bionicchop2]

I really think Matias is lying about his role. I don't think his reads will help us.

[bionicchop2]

Anybody have a problem with shooting matias now and worrying about Katty later? No? Cool.

If he is a bodyguard, you can speedlynch me and I won't put up a fight.

[bionicchop2]

He should have been shot as soon as he replaced himself into the game.

With 2 confirmed scum, I think I should be able to piece together a solid theory here. Time to grab some lunch and see what I can come up with.

[bionicchop2]

-iso #2 meh, maybe its just me but when I see someone discussing bussing early on I usually think scum, because scum are in the mindset from pregame that they may have to bus to win or at least are thinking about their options. Town aren't thinking of bringing up bussing, because well, they are town.

shh let him bus his buddies first

Unvote, Vote: treznor

. yuck. Go ahead, timeater, you can bus him.

Interesting thesis.

It may be time to revisit this. It was a theory I had not heard prior to this game, so I wasn't ready to buy into it. One player has proven this to be true. I will see what else my snooping uncovers.

[bionicchop2]

I am fairly confident adding FishyFish to the group of town reads right now. Partly based on their play since replacing, but also based on the way DH attacked timeater D1. He has proven to be a lazy busser and the harder pushing on timeater seems more indicative of pushing a mislynch.

[bionicchop2]

Soben - I will see what you are talking about specifically, but I would tend to agree based on my last post that DH did not push too hard if at all on their scum partner. They may have even defended them.

[bionicchop2]

Let's get this to claim town. Katty is the only person DH listed as a 'town read' who I do not read as very town.

VOTE: Katty L-1, claim it.

[bionicchop2]

double

VOTE: Katty

Who the hell is going to lolhammer?

Also, nice claim for no reason yonzy.

[bionicchop2]

Red - my vote didn't even closely resemble proper double voting format under any mod standards.

[bionicchop2]

My only guess right now is that GenWolf is mafia sided? Can mafia have a day kill ability?

[bionicchop2]

I am not going to drag this out longer than it has to go. Best I could do at this point is drag it out a few days. We got hit way too hard way too early and I should have stuck my neck out to save one of them. I would fight tooth and nail if there was even a small window of opportunity, but my only chance would be if I somehow convinced everybody that maybe the gunsmith was fake and got Soben lynched. Hopefully I am not breaking some taboo by confessing here, but as Odysseus said, it is 3 unclear with 3 lynches available. I was angling to claim either role cop or a protective role depending how things played out. Had to take a shot at Soben to avoid follow the cop, but it didn't pan out.

[bionicchop2]

I mean, I could obviously claim doc since I planted the seed, but I would be cc'd and then lynch/lynch ends it.

[bionicchop2]

Slaxx is not a player in this game. Their vote does not count!

[bionicchop2]

My only hope was there was no protective role and I killed Soben. I was going to breadcrumb something about a bad coin toss so I could claim Jailkeeper later. Meh.

[bionicchop2]

I was mafia role cop. Only got to use it once though.

[bionicchop2]

Yeah, but I scumhunted SH like a mofo!

[bionicchop2]

Playing against 2 hydras is a nightmare. 4 players to filter through all the bull is tough.

[bionicchop2]

Mafia QT

Not much to me but me rambling to myself at the end

[bionicchop2]

I think it was balanced fine.