Mini 1265: Wickedestjr's Mini Normal- Game Over

[Wickedestjr]

Votecount 1.9:

ScreamingHawk - [5] - DemonHybrid, Odysseus, Soben, bionicchop2, redtail896
treznor - [2] - FightingShadow, ScreamingHawk
Katty Bard - [2] - treznor, el simo
el simo - [1] - Gen_Wolf
bionicchop2 - [1] - Uphill
DemonHybrid - [1] - Yonzy

Not Voting - [1] - Katty Bard

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 7 to no-lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2011-11-09 11:01:07)

[Katty Bard]

I have a question for pretty much everyone: Why do you think trez isn't reading and which fucking alignment would do this?

Hmm. I feel like, if he were mafia, his buddies would be getting after him to pay more attention. He DOES seem more attentive now, though. Also, I just don't quite get the vibe that he's lazy town. It's about half-and-half between gut and various contradictions he's made that have been pointed out.
Another thing. If he continue(d) to not read or pay attention, he'd be a liability to his faction. Anyone, town or mafia, could point out his mistakes and push him for an easy lynch.

Does this mean she agrees with me on them? Would self-incrimination tell apply here?

Katty: If you were in my position, would you have pushed on yourself as I did?

While I like your attention to detail, and understand your points against me, that doesn't mean I agree with all of them.
I would have pushed what I said, sure, but not to the degree you did.

iso #8: What made you feel that your vote for SH would provide more information than a vote for Timeater?
His isos (1, 2, 18) make good points against trez; I'll see how I feel about him after I go through his iso.

Because people were discussing timeater, nobody was discussing SH.

I don't see where SH makes good points against treznor. He doesn't have 18 posts, so I don't know which isos you are referencing. Please directly quote what you felt was a good case at the time I switched my vote to SH.

Ooh, interesting.
I was referencing your ISO and I'll quote the points when I get a chance. Likely within my in-context cross-reference read...thingy.

--------
ISOs, Part Two~

redtail-
I get a lot of deja vu in reading his content, so I'll be contextualizing everything he's said. I did notice some other players stating him as a sheep-read.

ScreamingHawk-
Between Iso #7 and #9... First, he says trez is null-town, then just suddenly switches to saying trez is his scummiest read; on top of that, the things SH remarks are scummy are things that happened in the early game. So things that would have happened BEFORE iso 7.
Basically, the thought process here looks like this: "merrr, I dunno about this, don't want to incriminate him yet" -> "oh look, odysseus pointed out a mistake he made" -> "SCUM SCUM YOU WERE ALWAYS SCUM"
what.
Iso #10: I still don't understand why Oddy would be on the chopping block if I were scum...
Yeah, this dude is probably mafia.

Soben-
I like him. The directness here reads as very town.
re:

I'm actually feeling slightly better about Katty after her recent post though I despise the playstyle of scumhunting purely through ISO's than reading the thread as a whole and actually have found that merely reading and judging people via their ISOs is something scum tend to do more often than not.

As I've stated earlier I fully intend to read this game in proper context, as well. I just like to cross-reference through ISOs. I find it helps me find my footing when a game is this active.

Timeater/FS-
Timeater was weird, but relatively consistent. FS' catchup post leans town, but I need more from him to be sure(r).

treznor-
It's pretty apparent that this guy has been clueless from the start.
ISOs (2,4) Defending RVS vote is weird. Except in 4 you say it's not a random vote...but then go on to describe your reasoning, which basically fits that of a random vote.
Here he basically admits he's sheeping Odysseus' SH read. I don't like it.
He never mentioned Timeater until here. And suddenly he's suspicious, and the new guy can't exactly speak for his predecessor. This reads as opportunistic.
I have a lean-scum read on him, but not as strong as the one on SH. People seem to be more divided on their reads of trez, though, so perhaps he would be a more informative lynch?

Uphill-
His first 7 posts still read weird to me! I don't necessarily think he's scum, but a;dsljgf. Difference in playstyles I guess?
His case on BC, though, consists of a single point that I don't agree with. Not wanting to cause unnecessary distraction isn't really the same as "[letting] everyone else fight [his] battles".
Iunno. If it weren't for that I'd have him as a townread, null-town at least. But for now he's a solid null.

Yonzy-
iso #2 basically is sheeping everyone else's Soben read. His other reads, though, seem to go against the grain (particularly for myself, redtail, Time, and Uphill).
Although, I don't agree that redtail necessarily OVERthought his posts. Also, I'm a girl.
iso #3- I don't really see Uphill's posts in that light anymore. Also, 25 isn't a scumtell.
re: FS- Yeah I don't see it that way.
re: re: Odysseus- ...what?

iso #4 re: Uphill- so, would you rather he post fluff instead of not saying anything? I'm sorry, I just don't follow this.

I like that (for the most part) he thinks for himself, but his logic is strange in a lot of places. Leans town for now, as I don't see mafia posting reads against the popular opinion of the town THAT many times.

-------

tl;dr here's my leaning-scum to scum reads, in order-
treznor (even though the early-game inattentiveness is possible from lazy town, I can't say I have that vibe), DemonHybrid (still questionable/makes me feel even more uneasy), ScreamingHawk.
Everyone else is null, town, thereabouts. I am most comfortable with an SH lynch, but would be accepting of a trez one. And I need to see what DH has to say about the jumpiness I've previously mentioned.

All that other stuff I said I'd do, I've made a list and will take care of that either tonight or tomorrow. Also, I'll place a new vote (likely on SH) when I feel the time is right...that time ain't now.

[Uphill]

I went to the happeningly hip city of Not-Having-Anything-New-to-Sayville for a day there.

That should never be an excuse not to post. That's more of a way to avoid saying something that might give someone a scumread on you.

why would I post if I have nothing to say

and more importantly, what would I post?

what.

the.

FUCK.

Timeater asked me about my random vote, and I answered. Then I turned around and stole his question and used it against his non-vote. So how exactly does that process make that question no longer a question? Did a powerful archwizard whose only spell is to turn questions into other things make me his bitch?

Saying "what's

not

up with your vote?" is not a question at all tbh. It's more of just a comeback you said to sound clever. Then when he replied with something clever all you said was "Oh you're avoiding the question"
After that going on to using sarcasm for I don't knwo what purpose it really served just seemed like a desperate attempt to make yourself sound clever.

no, it's a QUESTION I said to sound clever. I honestly don't get why you think it's not a question.

[Odysseus]

My scum read on Katty keeps getting weaker and weaker. Lots of little towntells in that post. I'm not gonna explain them unless someone asks to save you from my ramblings although I will say that I don't support a Katty lynch today.

[ScreamingHawk]

Argh.. Let's see if I can explain these 'contradictions'.

DemonHybrid - Null.

I hate to say this but I really can’t read anything from what you’ve posted. Most of it is quoting other people and disagreeing with whatever is in the post.

I do agree with your #141 on timeater, though I think he is leaning scum.

FightingShadow - Timeater

left me wtf about this slot. But I like your read on the game so far.

Null-town

, more town if I ignore Timeater

This is so full of contradictions it isn't funny, he states that he agrees with DH and that he prestened something new in #141 about Timeater and thinks Timeater is scum but he can't read anything of DHs because he hasn't posted new content (????), he then stated he has a null-town read on FightingShadow/Timeaters slot.

Unvote, Vote: ScreamingHawk

DH hasn't posted new content: As far as I could see DH only really had content in #141.
I did think timeater was looking scum, but the ragequit left me wtf about his slot. Was probably just trying to stir something up. Since then FS has seemed very town, thus Null-town when takinn timeater into account, and more town when I ignore Timeater. What was the problem here again?

For those of you who didn't catch it.

"Treznor is my scummiest read.
If Treznor is Scum, Odysseus is likely scum too
Odysseus is town in my book"

yeah no

I don't see the problem with this.
They are mutually exclusive events.
Ody currently looks town and trenzor looks scum.
IF trenzor FLIPPED scum, then I'd put Ody as a partner. (I should have said flipped in my post)
Until he flips I'm not going to make a complete association joining the two. The would just be stupid.

Just a side note, his sign up date of 2004 is odd with his style of play up to this point. How much exp have you actually had here? Oh lots, #77.

This. After a long-time inactive, I just completed a newbie game that moved nowhere near as quickly as this one is (el_simo can back that up... the pace was.. painful). I'm trying to keep up but having trouble sometimes

Now who isn't reading? Regardless of my join date (which I've referenced as being mis-leading) I have played two games on this site. One in 2004 and one that I just completed. Having played a number of games via an email site means you understand the mechanics, but not how statements and actions will be perceived here.

This is how I came to my read here: 'long-time' is a relative term. Could be anything upwards from a month or two. I did not check how many games you had played on this site. You said you had just recently played a game. You also said you had played 50/75 games off-site.

I'm not familiar with email play, but it doesn't seem like I should be able to see newbie reads off you if you've played that many games. If email is that much different to forum then I retract my statement.

ScreamingHawk-
Between Iso #7 and #9... First, he says trez is null-town, then just suddenly switches to saying trez is his scummiest read; on top of that, the things SH remarks are scummy are things that happened in the early game. So things that would have happened BEFORE iso 7.
Basically, the thought process here looks like this: "merrr, I dunno about this, don't want to incriminate him yet" -> "oh look, odysseus pointed out a mistake he made" -> "SCUM SCUM YOU WERE ALWAYS SCUM"
what.
Iso #10: I still don't understand why Oddy would be on the chopping block if I were scum...
Yeah, this dude is probably mafia.

This is the best case I have seen on me so far. The trenzor read change was after looking at games played. I'd skimmed until ISO#9 (#190). I couldn't see an experienced player making those posts as town.

As for Ody on the chopping block if you flipped scum. I honestly cannot find why I had that in there... He was the most determined against you until about #159 when he realised you were a girl and so stopped. That was probably it.



Also sorry if I missed anything. If you link me back to it I'll answer.

[ScreamingHawk]

My scum read on Katty keeps getting weaker and weaker. Lots of little towntells in that post. I'm not gonna explain them unless someone asks to save you from my ramblings although I will say that I don't support a Katty lynch today.

I'll bite. Where are they.

[ScreamingHawk]

This is the best case I have seen on me so far. The trenzor read change was after looking at games played. I'd skimmed until ISO#9 (#190). I couldn't see an experienced player making those posts as town.

Sorry for triple posting but just in regards to this: I skimmed until I did my reads in my ISO #9. I could not see an experienced player making the posts trenzor did, as town, without trying to fake looking newbie.

[treznor]

ScreamingHawk, you didn't address Soben's post here. That's one of the more damning posts against you, and one of the more difficult to explain on your part. I really don't feel like you've addressed Odysseus' post completely either. I feel like you've probably addressed it as well as you can, but it still doesn't explain it other than flip-flopping.

VOTE: ScreamingHawk

[Odysseus]

I don't see the problem with this.
They are mutually exclusive events.
Ody currently looks town and trenzor looks scum.
IF trenzor FLIPPED scum, then I'd put Ody as a partner. (I should have said flipped in my post)
Until he flips I'm not going to make a complete association joining the two. The would just be stupid.

Why?

I'll do Katty's towntell post in a minute.

Preview edit: SH is now at L-1, don't vote unless you intend to lynch.

[treznor]

I have a question for pretty much everyone: Why do you think trez isn't reading and which fucking alignment would do this?

Hmm. I feel like, if he were mafia, his buddies would be getting after him to pay more attention. He DOES seem more attentive now, though. Also, I just don't quite get the vibe that he's lazy town. It's about half-and-half between gut and various contradictions he's made that have been pointed out.
Another thing. If he continue(d) to not read or pay attention, he'd be a liability to his faction. Anyone, town or mafia, could point out his mistakes and push him for an easy lynch.

There's a point in here that is leading me away from Katty Bard = scum much more. Probably enough to push me towards Katty Bard = weak town unless she's a much craftier player than I think she is (not saying she isn't, just that it would need to be fairly thought out and could only be done in a limited situation).

ScreamingHawk-
Between Iso #7 and #9... First, he says trez is null-town, then just suddenly switches to saying trez is his scummiest read; on top of that, the things SH remarks are scummy are things that happened in the early game. So things that would have happened BEFORE iso 7.
Basically, the thought process here looks like this: "merrr, I dunno about this, don't want to incriminate him yet" -> "oh look, odysseus pointed out a mistake he made" -> "SCUM SCUM YOU WERE ALWAYS SCUM"
what.
Iso #10: I still don't understand why Oddy would be on the chopping block if I were scum...
Yeah, this dude is probably mafia.

One more for the pile of why ScreamingHawk is scum.

Timeater/FS-
Timeater was weird, but relatively consistent. FS' catchup post leans town, but I need more from him to be sure(r).

I agree, I just think Timeater sounded more consistently scummy. The main thing that worried me is that he sounded so scummy that no scum could sound like that. I bit of WIFOM on that though. Agree that FS has sounded much more townie than Timeater

treznor-
It's pretty apparent that this guy has been clueless from the start.
ISOs (2,4) Defending RVS vote is weird. Except in 4 you say it's not a random vote...but then go on to describe your reasoning, which basically fits that of a random vote.

Perhaps its just me an my math/engineering background, but random to me is just that. Random. No stated reason, and not even the possibility of a stated reason. My vote on el simo was because we ran into each other in the prior game and I thought it would be a humorous way to acknowledge that. I'm used to people being quite alright with that early in the game.

Here he basically admits he's sheeping Odysseus' SH read. I don't like it.

I have stated that Odysseus is my strongest town read (as I think he is for a number of people in the game). If the thinking of your strong town reads doesn't influence your own thinking, I'm not sure what to say. I definitely strongly consider the points of my strong town reads to determine whether or not they match my thinking.

He never mentioned Timeater until here. And suddenly he's suspicious, and the new guy can't exactly speak for his predecessor. This reads as opportunistic.

That's actually weird. I would have sworn that I posted something along the lines of me thinking he was acting scummy before but I can't find it now. It would have been around the time of his rage-quit. He was never my highest choice (first Uphill, then you, then ScreamingHawk), so he wasn't a focus of me, especially considering there wasn't all that much more support for him being scum from others.

[treznor]

Whew... managed to make it through a post with multiple quotes without breaking them

[Odysseus]

Okkkkkkayyy so after I read Katty's post I felt like I had been wrong about her at least enough to put her in null. But now that I'm putting my money where my mouth and reading it again, I made it sound like there was something groundbreaking here and there really isn't.

The parts that I liked are when she says that I'm still town if she scum because I couldn't wrap my head around why she would say that as scum. The part about trez being an easy lynch for either faction was good too and it was an odd way of thinking about it and I didn't really see that coming from scum. You know what? Fuck it. I read it on my phone while I was eating soup and it felt a lot stronger than it does now that I'm sitting here trying to explain it. Katty is giving more thoughtful content than others are, especially recently and I prefer that to a lot of my null reads even if she's scum.

SH said that I pretty much backed off when I realized Katty could just be an overwhelmed girl and even though he was trying to make me appear scummy with that, I think that's exactly what happened. Anyway, I'm going to chime out for a little bit because the value of my posts are deteriorating.

[redtail896]

DH hasn't posted new content: As far as I could see DH only really had content in #141.
I did think timeater was looking scum, but the ragequit left me wtf about his slot. Was probably just trying to stir something up. Since then FS has seemed very town, thus Null-town when takinn timeater into account, and more town when I ignore Timeater. What was the problem here again?

The problem is that it can't be both. You think timeater is leaning scum, but you think FS is town. It's clear why you think the former, but not the latter. So it's not abundantly clear what you think. More precisely: this gives you the option of going either way, depending on the general mood of the town. It's all about leaving your options open.

I don't see the problem with this.
They are mutually exclusive events.
Ody currently looks town and trenzor looks scum.
IF trenzor FLIPPED scum, then I'd put Ody as a partner. (I should have said flipped in my post)
Until he flips I'm not going to make a complete association joining the two. The would just be stupid.

The problem is that you said, "If treznor is scum then ody would be a pair." That means you

were

making an association between the two. Also, I still don't know where this association came from.

As for Ody on the chopping block if you flipped scum. I honestly cannot find why I had that in there... He was the most determined against you until about #159 when he realised you were a girl and so stopped. That was probably it.

And here's the semi-answer to that question. But I'm unsatisfied; you can't just say you don't know why you said something and retract it. You said it. It's out there. Was that the entirety of your thought process at the time?

[Yonzy]

Just so you guys know

when i put @person'sname it means im talking to the person
when i just put the person's name without the "@" it means i'm talking about the person.


alsooo

SH

, retracting something that made you look scummy is probably what killed you. I'm intending to lynch. Just wanna know if anyone else has anything to say before I do. CLaiiimmmm! (do people do that here? Haven't finished many games on this site)

@Uphill

: You can post your opinion about a post that has already been posted. Sure someone might have the same opinion, but it's better if everyone knows everyone else's opinion. (Get what i mean?idk that sounded confusing a little >.<)

El Simo

is null for me,

Trez

is leaning town now after his recent posts.

Idk what to say about DH, he hasn't really posted.

[Uphill]

@Uphill

: You can post your opinion about a post that has already been posted. Sure someone might have the same opinion, but it's better if everyone knows everyone else's opinion. (Get what i mean?idk that sounded confusing a little >.<)

Yeah, but see, I didn't actually have any new opinions. And when I'm talking about new opinions, I don't mean an opinion nobody has said, I mean an opinion

I

haven't said. I can't say something new if I legitimately don't have anything new to say.

This time, however, I definitely have something new to say:

ScreamingHawk is town. 229 is blatant townposting, there's no other way to describe it. It's transparent as all hell and the tone is that of a person who knows he's right.

[FightingShadow]

Other import thing, Treznor is town.
Reasons:
-Really, its mostly in his attitude. I can see why people are skeptical of him due to his iso #2, although that unvote was more bad than scummy really.
-His attitude is calm, trying to explain to himself. He is trying to explain to others why he is doing what he is doing. I don't sense any nervousness or hidden intents really. He is trying to communicate clearly which has heaps of good town-motivation behind it.
-His #7 is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. He is apologizing for not quoting earlier to make things apparent. He's trying to explain his actions to town. Scum often try to hide their intent with fence-sitting, etc.
-tldr, Treznor's openness is a town tell.

Did my observations affect this at all? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for a lynch this early at all. But it bothers me that your defense of him was four bullet points, three of which basically stated the same thing. Seems like you're trying to buff up a defense that doesn't have that much merit in the first place. That's sketchy . . . especially if Treznor flips scum.

we'll see how his replacement does, but I'm not expecting a very town showing. right now my vote is on SH regardless.

Heh. The gauntlet is thrown.

So imagine being a new player on the site, intimidated by the experienced players and seeing your 1st game take off rather quickly. You want to join in, but you don't know how. You don't know how to scumhunt really and you remember reading somewhere that random lynches were bad. I could see a player in this situation posting this way.

I know I am giving a whole backstory in my head, but I try to understand the motivation behind someone's posts. In this case I am giving leeway for some D1 jitters. On the flipside, you have given her a whole backstory from a scum perspective. Possible, but not probable, and certainly not as cut and dry as you are presenting it. After the game she may tell us that we were both wrong and her cat typed it, but she was afraid to tell us.

I endorse this, both from logic and experience.

FightingShadow, 2 points:
1) You'll need to bold your unvote if you want it to count.
2) Please don't quote people without actually using the quote feature as then we can't tell what's going on, especially if I don't specifically remember that someone else said that already.

Because of those two points, I have no idea what you were actually trying to do or show in the post above.

I failed again. That post was left over in my clipboard from the big post I was constructing as a draft. When I went to copy it over, I forgot to copy, and merely pasted and posted without realizing my mistake (I don't preview my posts.) My apologies.

This is so full of contradictions it isn't funny, he states that he agrees with DH and that he prestened something new in #141 about Timeater and thinks Timeater is scum but he can't read anything of DHs because he hasn't posted new content (????), he then stated he has a null-town read on FightingShadow/Timeaters slot.

Unvote, Vote: ScreamingHawk

Good logic here.

I very much am reading, thank you very much. Your entire case is based on me missing one post, on a new page. It should probably have been pretty obvious that somehow I missed the page turn. I obviously recognized that FS was quoting someone (and knew that it was Katty Bard but didn't feel the need to post that as it was pretty obvious who he was posting). However, I couldn't tell quickly whether or not he was quoting the entire post from KB or just a portion of it because he didn't link the quote. If you don't feel that those two points are proper etiquette, then I guess that's your opinion. In my opinion, votes need to be bolded so its obvious what you're doing (and that's not an opinion, that's a mod rule) and quotes need to be quoted so we can trust them, easily see the context, etc. Yes, in this case I knew exactly who was being quoted as I remembered the post but in other cases that may not be true.

FS's post after that cleared things up but, as I stated above, I missed the page-turn. I apologize for offending your delicate sensibilities.

Yeah, this was just a failure to communicate both by my copy/paste skills and you not noticing the second point. I don't think it pertains to alignment at all. Sure, there are other points on treznor either way, but this matter is not worth discussing.

Timeater/FightingShadowMost of my read on this slot is based on Timeater. I know that's old information and seems to be in his playstyle as well. However, his rage-quit just really reads to me as him seeing he was going to have a big uphill battle to get people to follow him as town.

Has my posting since replacement (I know there isn't much of it) altered this view at all? You didn't respond to my points against you, so this feels like you are writing me off based off my predecessor in order to provide a read without responding to my content.

ScreamingHawk, you didn't address Soben's post here. That's one of the more damning posts against you, and one of the more difficult to explain on your part. I really don't feel like you've addressed Odysseus' post completely either. I feel like you've probably addressed it as well as you can, but it still doesn't explain it other than flip-flopping.

VOTE: ScreamingHawk

Uhhhhh . . . . he did. At the very top of 229. Wasn't the most satisfactory explanation in the world, but he did definitely address it.

It bothers me quite a bit that you went from "hesitant to put SH at L-1" to "LYNCH!" over a misread.

[FightingShadow]

FightingShadow, you stated that you made an entire post and lost it all in Post #168 then stated that you're doing a 'stream of concious reaction while reading the thread' in Post #175, do you mind explaining to me how that works? Surely your 'reactions' would have occurred when doing your first post (Which got deleted) so isn't your second post (#175) not your natural reaction but rather your thoughts after reading the entire thread?

Oops, I remembered reading this, but I didn't remember responding to it. Forgot to do it in my last post.

But anyway - what I mean by the "stream-of-consciousness" comparison (which was probably not the right comparison to use) was that I tend to read whatever content is new (in this case the whole thread), point out what I notice, and summarize at the end. Because I lost the post, I structured my remake of it the same way - including that preface. What I included in the remake was what was in the original, more or less.

[treznor]

Timeater/FightingShadowMost of my read on this slot is based on Timeater. I know that's old information and seems to be in his playstyle as well. However, his rage-quit just really reads to me as him seeing he was going to have a big uphill battle to get people to follow him as town.

Has my posting since replacement (I know there isn't much of it) altered this view at all? You didn't respond to my points against you, so this feels like you are writing me off based off my predecessor in order to provide a read without responding to my content.

I thought I had addressed this earlier. My read on you is town-to-null, which is why your slot is a much weaker scum-read on my part than it would have been without you as replacement.

ScreamingHawk, you didn't address Soben's post here. That's one of the more damning posts against you, and one of the more difficult to explain on your part. I really don't feel like you've addressed Odysseus' post completely either. I feel like you've probably addressed it as well as you can, but it still doesn't explain it other than flip-flopping.

VOTE: ScreamingHawk

Uhhhhh . . . . he did. At the very top of 229. Wasn't the most satisfactory explanation in the world, but he did definitely address it.

It bothers me quite a bit that you went from "hesitant to put SH at L-1" to "LYNCH!" over a misread.

I read #229, I just don't see what SH wrote in response to Soben's post actually addresses Soben's post. Reads to me as scum doing what they can to dance out of their inconsistencies (and doing a poor job doing it).

[Soben]

Retrospective, if it makes you feel any better I got a similarish town vibe on Katty from reading her post then went back and re-read it to find it not as compelling or strong as I thought previously, overall though I'm feeling better about her and am no longer happy with her lynch today.

Uphill, you will need to explain your Screaming town read for me because I don't see it at all, what about his tone reads town and how is 'that of a person who knows he's right' ever a town-tell? I'll be perfectly honest with you, at this point it almost seems like you are just attempting to differ yourself from the norms opinion and push your own alternate one at each turn just for the sake of being different. It's something I did a long time ago and it's not something I recommend.

Did my observations affect this at all? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for a lynch this early at all. But it bothers me that your defense of him was four bullet points, three of which basically stated the same thing. Seems like you're trying to buff up a defense that doesn't have that much merit in the first place. That's sketchy . . . especially if Treznor flips scum.

Sorry, I'm failing to understand this at all, how would you observations potentially affect a post that was made long before you replaced in? Also Scumhunter made that post because he was insistent and I am too that Trez is very likely town and wanted to kill any wagon that may occur on him at the time, I also fail to see what about the points you consider as 'weak' and the 'four points being the same thing' are addressing various posts of his leading towards him being likely town.

[ScreamingHawk]

ScreamingHawk, you didn't address Soben's post here. That's one of the more damning posts against you, and one of the more difficult to explain on your part. I really don't feel like you've addressed Odysseus' post completely either. I feel like you've probably addressed it as well as you can, but it still doesn't explain it other than flip-flopping.

VOTE: ScreamingHawk

Uhhhhh . . . . he did. At the very top of 229. Wasn't the most satisfactory explanation in the world, but he did definitely address it.

It bothers me quite a bit that you went from "hesitant to put SH at L-1" to "LYNCH!" over a misread.

I read #229, I just don't see what SH wrote in response to Soben's post actually addresses Soben's post. Reads to me as scum doing what they can to dance out of their inconsistencies (and doing a poor job doing it).

I'm not going to make up new reasons to justify an old reading. That seems to be what you want. He tried to call out inconsistencies and I merely responded explaining my reads. I'm also not happy about the mis-rep saying I didn't answer the question.

Next post will address redtails #237. Hold up

[redtail896]

Did my observations affect this at all?

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for a lynch this early at all.

But it bothers me that your defense of him was four bullet points, three of which basically stated the same thing. Seems like you're trying to buff up a defense that doesn't have that much merit in the first place. That's sketchy . . . especially if Treznor flips scum.

I might be jumping at straws, but this sentence bothered me. It isn't early to call for a lynch, and why would you be so sure that we think you aren't?

[treznor]

Others have asked ScreamingHawk, and I'll back it up. You're at L-1, time to claim.

[Odysseus]

Ahahaha, That does make me feel better. Thanks Soben.

Yeah, RT, I'm pretty sure you're jumping at nothing there.

Question for everyone: DH said he'd be back soon, don't you think we should wait for him to catch up and give some reads before we lynch SH? I'm not trying to deter from his lynch and I still support it. My DH is read so null and I'd like to have something from him pre-flip to judge him on. Obviously reads change after the flip and NK. So I'd like to get a better handle on where DH is now to compare to later. Also where is Gen?

Mod, have you prodded Gen?

[Odysseus]

Nevermind, just checked and Gen isn't within the prod range he's just annoyingly inactive.

[Uphill]

Uphill, you will need to explain your Screaming town read for me because I don't see it at all, what about his tone reads town and how is 'that of a person who knows he's right' ever a town-tell?

Because scum are wrong and they know it. They accuse players of being scum that they know not to be scum, and deny accusations of being scum that they know to be true. Therefore, they cannot genuinely believe the things they are saying. Town of course can and do believe what they say.

The wagon on ScreamingHawk brought up a decent number of questionable plays against him, and it brought all the attention on him in a hurry. Yet he doesn't act like he's done anything wrong. He just puts out the answers to all the points brought out against him, with full confidence that these answers are indeed correct. In particular, the bolded words here:

I did think timeater was looking scum, but the ragequit left me wtf about his slot. Was probably just trying to stir something up. Since then FS has seemed very town, thus Null-town when takinn timeater into account, and more town when I ignore Timeater.

What was the problem here again?

and here:

I don't see the problem with this.

They are mutually exclusive events.
Ody currently looks town and trenzor looks scum.
IF trenzor FLIPPED scum, then I'd put Ody as a partner. (I should have said flipped in my post)
Until he flips I'm not going to make a complete association joining the two. The would just be stupid.

are the words of someone who

knows

he wasn't doing anything wrong.

I'll be perfectly honest with you, at this point it almost seems like you are just attempting to differ yourself from the norms opinion and push your own alternate one at each turn just for the sake of being different. It's something I did a long time ago and it's not something I recommend.

I wouldn't disagree with everyone if the alternative wasn't so wrong.