Mini 501 - The Illustrated Mafia - The End!

[ChronX]

Vote GreenDay

Because it is september and I don't WANT to be woken up when it ends.

[ChronX]

ChronX adjusts his spectacles and peers over them. "I, as a man of the earth, take this threat very seriously indeed," he intoned solemnly.

And thus I make the first WIFOM post of the game.

[ChronX]

Another of my games is deadlined so I have been focussed there but will make some sort of useful post tomorrow.

[ChronX]

There's nothing much to say.

2 bandwagons have stumbled and fell, mainly because neither had any real merit yet.

AlyG is far more suspicious for her "oh yeah there is a new victim" vote on Thorum than her initial antic.

Thorum and ckillor have the overeager blush of the virignal bride, who wants to get that over with so she can enjoy it the next time. Unless of course, they have the overeager blush of the tipsy virginal bride who wants to get the reception over with so that it moves to night and she can do what she knows she gets to do at night. So yeah...either could be scum just dying for their first chance to hunt. Or either could be power role dying for their chance to do that. Or they could just be newbies who don't know that at mafiascum day 1 is painstakingly slow. I've played at places which always have 24 hour deadlines every day, so it DOES take some adjusting to how it plays here. There IS merit in wanting to see the results of day 1 and start to play with real data. One has to become accustomed to NOT giving in to that sentiment.

METAGAME OBSERVATION: gameshark1313 is playing similarly to how he did in Newbie 336, in which he was zealous pro-townie...and won as scum.

SirWario could be noted to have actually made the first nonrandom vote of the game; on page one he voted Greenday in the post immediately following mine randomly voting Greenday. But an hour or more had gone by, theres no way he could have missed that. Attempt to start a bandwagon but pass it off as a mistake during random voting? He has since badgered AlyG, and vote hopped on and off the newbie Thorum.

Of these, I

unvote, vote SirWario

as I find his behavior most suspicious and enough to warrant a first vote at this stage.

[ChronX]

The scum are probably waiting for some townies to fall into the bandwagon trap.

OR AlyG is scum, and the fellow scum aren't voting for him.

I'd imagine that the scum realize that two people instantly jumping on AlyG would be sure signs of a scum hammer. However, given the number of people that have already voted for him,

I'd say it's more likely that the scum have already voted for him

, not having wanted to wait for the bandwagon to get rolling enough that it would have cast suspicion upon themselves when they sealed the deal with the final two votes.

Bolded for emphasis...good point. We need to hear from

Fernando

.

[ChronX]

I don't think misguided enthusiasm (the original tactic) and verbal fumbling is necessarily scummy; I DO think opportunistically hopping on the first weak player is.

[ChronX]

Unvote

gah. ok so can someone just give a good reason to vote for someone. it gets so confusing when people nearly bandwagon someone and then everyone drops it. i think its also just how impatient i am but can we just lynch already?

This post should recieve the 'most scum tells in a single post' award.

Basicaly he said:

-I'll site here until someone give me a reason, then i'll vote! i'll just agree and lynch!

-C'mon guys, you started it and now you quit? I was so excited about quicklynching someone.

- Lynch lynch lynch! Page 3 is enough for a day and enough to know if someone is scum or not.

Unvote. Vote: ckillor
Middle Finger of Suspicion: AlyG

The problem with this analysis is that I get the vibe that ckillor is just showing youthful, newbish enthusiasm. I find it equally probable that he is scum, that he has a town power role that he is dying to use on the first night, or that he is a townie and just doesn't grasp that some info can be gained from all this verbal wrangling. A lot of new players think that you can't know anything without "data"...I've always played on deadline before finding this site, so it has taken me some getting used to as well. I was just smart/lucky enough to read some games before I joined one so I knew the lay of the land.

All in all, I think

ckillor deserves a FoS

but not a vote at this point.

[ChronX]

Unvote

gah. ok so can someone just give a good reason to vote for someone. it gets so confusing when people nearly bandwagon someone and then everyone drops it. i think its also just how impatient i am but can we just lynch already?

This post should recieve the 'most scum tells in a single post' award.

Basicaly he said:

-I'll site here until someone give me a reason, then i'll vote! i'll just agree and lynch!

-C'mon guys, you started it and now you quit? I was so excited about quicklynching someone.

- Lynch lynch lynch! Page 3 is enough for a day and enough to know if someone is scum or not.

Unvote. Vote: ckillor
Middle Finger of Suspicion: AlyG

The problem with this analysis is that I get the vibe that ckillor is just showing youthful, newbish enthusiasm. I find it equally probable that he is scum, that he has a town power role that he is dying to use on the first night, or that he is a townie and just doesn't grasp that some info can be gained from all this verbal wrangling. A lot of new players think that you can't know anything without "data"...I've always played on deadline before finding this site, so it has taken me some getting used to as well. I was just smart/lucky enough to read some games before I joined one so I knew the lay of the land.

All in all, I think

ckillor deserves a FoS

but not a vote at this point.

i understand that some info can be gained, but for the most part its all speculation, which to me, doesnt prove all that much unless you test it out.

I am sympathetic to this point. On this site just be careful about how you say it or how eager you appear to be to work from this viewpoint, because 99+% of the members here will interpret you as scummy/eager to lynch.

[ChronX]

Greenday gave just absolutely terrible logic and I am so close to voting him on the basis of him doing whatever he can to get to night, but AlyG still seems scum to me. Even his reply to Greenday's craplogic was too much. It seems like every time someone calls him out he over reacts.
PS I am so incredibly close to voting Greenday it isn't funny. If someone can find the smallest reason to vote for him I might easily change.

None of Greenday's posts have been especially useful. Vote hopping, if you view at as scummy, is a reason for a vote.

Post 49 is a little bizarre. Post 78 is, like his Thorum vote, seeming to search for SOMEone to build town consensus on, and yet fails to take a stance of his own. Then he hops back to the AlyG bandwagon a little later.

I am going to stick with my SirWario vote, because now that I am suspicious of GreenDay it makes even more sense. I see distancing with his early "random" vote of Greenday, especially since it was a second vote, and I see coaching in post 98.

FoS GreenDay

, scummate of SirWario

I also find myself wondering if we might have 2 mobs.

[ChronX]

To all games:

Due to extending circumstances, I will be unable to post in all of my games from saturday until tuesday evening. I promise to catch up promptly upon my return and post something with actual substance.

Don't reply to this if you are scum

Don't get it yet? I'll give you a clue. It's saturday today

I don't get this at all. Try grammar?

[ChronX]

N-L, I think its you a bit slow.

I can see Thorum's name quite clearly in the vote list on AlyG. I can see Undo announce that Hackerhuck replaced Thorum. Hackerhuck inherited the vote by Thorum on AlyG.

I doubt you missed this. I think you are trying to create more suspicion out of nothing with regard to the Thorum/Hackerhuck persona, or you are trying to hasten a lynch, since you are prodding people as to why their votes are still so spread out.

I think I will put a little pressure on you.

unvote SirWario
vote Nekka Lucifer

[ChronX]

It means my vote is staying right where it is, on the author of that lameness.

[ChronX]

Sir Wario returns from absence tomorrow, can we get

mod prods

on some of the other people who weren't courteous enough to declare an absence?

daedalus, fernando, greenday, and most importantly of all

AlyG

Who has cleverly become unbandwagoned by disappearing.

We don't need the mod but could use some more relevant posting from ckillor and gameshark, and everyone in general.

Sir Wario and ckillor need to make some decisions, they haven't committed to anything for a few pages now. I'm not urging a lynch here, but at least a FoS with conviction would be nice.

[ChronX]

We don't need the mod but could use some more relevant posting from ckillor and gameshark, and everyone in general.

Sir Wario and ckillor need to make some decisions, they haven't committed to anything for a few pages now. I'm not urging a lynch here, but at least a FoS with conviction would be nice.

How ironic that you discuss having some conviction, yet you're not acting on your own advice.

If you're so keen on prodding people into action with votes/FoSes, why don't you do it yourself? We're not that close to a lynch.

FoS:Chronx

for "acting" helpful.

You're kidding, right? I have my vote on Nekka, and I am standing by it which I just affirmed about 4 posts ago. I believe my vote on Nekka is a good one, and will stick with it. I believe half the players in this game need to start playing (you aren't one, you've been refreshingly active since you subbed in).

Whats your point about not being close to lynch that you needed to draw a distinction with ME saying "I'm not urging a lynch"? Did you think that by me saying I'm not urging a lynch, I was urging a lynch?

I didn't act helpful, I WAS helpful. SirW (whose absence was predicted) and ckillor have both showed up and made posts which give us info to work on.

I am NOT going to OMGUS FOS you because I think your post isn't scummy, just off the mark.

[ChronX]

This quote is more remarkable

I believe my vote on Nekka is a good one, and will stick with it.

Announcing you will stick with a vote is announcing tunneling (look to one player instead of all) and very dangerous. It could hurt town without reason.

And yet people get beat up for vote hopping. I guess you have introduced an alternative hypothesis.

[ChronX]

Nekka, it's still a rediculous argument. You thought that AlyG was scummy for quickly pulling his self-vote after people told him how dumb that was. What

useful

reactions do you think he would have gotten had he not pulled his vote?

ChronX. My point is that your current vote is not very useful since we're so far from a lynch. If you think that a vote will prod someone else into action, why are you stumping for someone else to do it for you?

Don't be stupid, HH. I'm not stumping for someone else to do anything for me, I've voted. I would be pleased if anyone would like to join my vote on Nekka, I think he is scummy, and, I continue to think he is scummy.

@HH and Hjallti:If Nekka continues to act in a way I think is scummy, shouldn't I continue to leave MY vote on him?

[ChronX]

I have been working on a vote analysis and the chalkboard has an omission: Greenday has 2 votes, AlyG and Gameshark

[ChronX]

Some thoughts specifically about voting patterns, first one sentence about my method: I cast off any jokey/random votes. I only looked at votes that had a serious reason attached to them. I'm also trying to develop skill at the method I used, so I did not do a good job factoring for unvoting and why.

Fernando cast the first "meaningful" vote on AlyG and also on cKillor, with decent analysis in each case (just because I don't like the case against AlyG doesn't mean it shouldn't have been made). Hjallti may have case some sort of FoS at me with his first post (was that an accusation, or were you just saying my approach wasn't helpful to the town?) In any event, I see this character as pro-town at the moment.

cKillor has been eager to vote, and hasn't advanced much of his own thoughts. I am contradicting an earlier position I took on this, thinking he was showing newbie paranoid town tells (I suffer from bouts of this so I sympathize when I see it). But he cast the third vote on Nekka and 4th votes on both AlyG and Thorum. His play is not pro-town. Possible scum.

GreenDay cast the third vote on Thorum (looking to get in on an easy bandwagon?) and fifth on AlyG (looking to get in on a popular bandwagon?) A lot of his other postings have been the kind of nonsensical crap that I don't like, which give the appearance of activity. Probable scum.

Nekka cast the second vote on AlyG and has stuck by it. His play is weird and not very helpful to the town. I will be keeping my eye on Nekka, but I have doubts about my adamant conviction about him. Maybe I am taking Hjallti's criticism to heart? Possible scum.

I can't fault Maz for his position since it is similar to mine. Vote on Nekka, FOS at anyone visiting the AlyG bandwagon in the early going. Gives me town vibes.

AlyG. Too much has been made of the self-vote, IMO. But AlyG hasn't covered herself with glory either including a vote on Thorum which was clearly a "Thank god somebody f'd up other than me!" vote and an OMGUS vote at Greenday. Maybe there is a case for scum here after all. Needs to be heard from.

Gameshark. Cast an L-2 vote on AlyG at the time he made it. Then unvoted and went after Greenday for a reason he never really stated (he cited a post but didn't specify what he found). I'm having a hard time getting a read here. Maybe protown, or maybe distancing from a scummate with one of those votes.

IGMEOY Nekka but UNVOTE
VOTE Greenday

[ChronX]

Did anyone notice ckillor hasn't met a case he didn't like until he came upon one against GreenDay?

Fingers, Toes, and anything else I can point with: ckillor

[ChronX]

MOD

could we get a vote count, pls? thx

[ChronX]

I got a prod. I am here and not unhappy with my vote on GD. Waiting to see what happens. The options are claim, hammer, or nothing much.

[ChronX]

I'm always curious about this. Is anyone going to give the slightest credence to a claim? What if he claims a town power role? Isn't asking him to claim indirectly fishing for a counterclaim? What if he claims vanilla town? Unless he is able to dis-assemble the case against himself and show how his actions have been town, again, so what?

This should not be construed as encouraging anyone to hammer, by the way. To ensure the validity of that point,

unvote

This unvote in no way signifies I am suddenly less suspicious of GD. However, with the mod on V/LA until Friday, and the ridiculous behavior of GD, I do not think the town is well served by lynching him right now.

[ChronX]

This Greenday wagon is awfully strange to me. There seems to be a lot of excitement for it, but not very much in the way of voting. I was honestly surprised to see he was only at 4 votes with that last vote count, considering how scummy I keep hearing he is.

Here are a couple of things I would like to see....
Those who have "no problems" hammering him or placing him at lynch-1, I would like to see a case in your own words. 'I agree' doesn't count.

Secondly, lets look at alternate suspects, since I'm not seeing the Green Day wagon ending up with a lynch anytime soon. White is definitely starting to inch up my list right now. Hjallti's comment seems to imply that White was setting someone up to comment on White's "objectivity" comment.

If you're so keen on prodding people into action with votes/FoSes, why don't you do it yourself? We're not that close to a lynch.

Hacker, following your own stated logic, why have you kept your vote on Sir Wario for so long? I think we SHOULD use the next few days while Undo is LA to pressure someone else. But I pushed the GD wagon pretty hard, and I think he is one of our scum, so I would like someone else to propose a case and I think you would be a good candidate to make one for us. You have a few suspicions, I ask you to pick one and make the case and also vote your convictions. Or justify leaving your vote on Sir Wario with analysis of his more recent play since you voted him so long ago.

[ChronX]

You know, I am not liking the way Maz is playing this at all. The anger at GD's refusal to keep playing, and the leading posts about a claim

If he claims something confirmable, I hope you guys are reasonable enough to

let him off.

, are rather suspicious. The roleplaying at the game start and the tunneling on Nekka...

all add up to a

MajorFoS: Maz Medias

[ChronX]

He's in no danger of being lynched, Maz. I have unvoted. He's at L-2. You clearly aren't going to switch your vote to him. White is already voting him. We're the only 3 doing anything at the moment.

He can't be replaced until Friday at the earliest because our mod posted that he (mod) is going to be without internet access until then. I am NOT defending his actions, but Undo has been a good GM so far and I'm sure will do with GD what is best for the game.

That said, after GD's outburst, I don't understand why anyone would push him to claim. Any claim HE types out at this point will be highly suspect, and would really only serve to out someone else if they were forced to counterclaim. If he is replaced, I would treat his replacement with all courtesy and evaluate the claim on its own merit.

I will say to you a variation of what I asked Hacker: Who do you regard as most scummy right now? You have left your vote on Nekka. Would you like to elaborate your case on him beyond your "gut"; do you feel maybe his more recent play is less littered with "anti-town BS"?

PS, /ooc, I am hardly a shrinking lily and have used the occassional cuss myself on this site, but you are really overdoing it. Ever since you dropped the iambic pentameter, about half your posts have contained FCC-not approved word or words.

[ChronX]

GreenDay cast the third vote on Thorum (looking to get in on an easy bandwagon?) and fifth on AlyG (looking to get in on a popular bandwagon?) A lot of his other postings have been the kind of nonsensical crap that I don't like, which give the appearance of activity. Probable scum.

This is from an extensive post in which I analyze every player and conclude GD is the most probable scum in my criteria. In that same post, I actually said you were giving me town vibes. However, your angry response to the conversation going on right now, and the OMGU REALLY S attack on me and White, is causing me concern.

I am in no way pushing a lynch during his time of inactivity. I did an analysis and cast my vote on him, which was consistent with much prior suspicion I had of him which I expressed in a post also suspicious of Sir Wario. I did not use his inactivity to justify my vote on him at all. In fact, I voted on the 20th and he has posted on the 20th, 22nd and 26th before his meltdown. Useless, empty posts, yes. Inactivity? No.

I am on the record (meta me) that Day 1 gallows claims are not to the benefit of the town. In fact, I believe pushing for one is anti-town. If the lynchee claims "Town Power Role X", and the claim is false, it almost forces the real Power Role X player to counterclaim on Day 2 or risk much damage to the town. Then the town has to lynch one of them to figure out who is lying, and the scum can take out the real one at night. However, as I said before, if GD is replaced, I will be courteous to his replacement if the replacement chooses to claim. Not, I'll buy the claim hook line and sinker...I will be courteous.

Your point 4. You have a funny way of showing that you are paying attention to everyone else. You have Fos'd "everyone voting AlyG". You made a post about Greenday that someone else interpreted as putting the GD wagon on the rails, you vehemently denied it; since you say that the post in question WASN'T intended to put a cloud over him, was it coaching him instead?
The post:

This posts rings oddly to me. It's almost like a noob scum player knowing they were caught and praying that sincere apology will shield them from suspicion.

Vote remains on Nekka, however, for unhelpful and generally anti-town bullshit.

Now, that you have been asked to name a suspect, you OMGUS White and I and point to someone else's logic about Sir Wario as "mostly valid". Way to go out on a limb.

I think White and I each think you know that you and GD share a faction, and I am starting more and more based on your reactions to think that the faction is indeed scum.

[ChronX]

Yeah, why'd you lie?

I was the third vote on GD. I voted on my second post. I didn't jump on the wagon late, i've been pushing this wagon since I joined this game.

And yeah, I hardly jumped on late either. Jenter, HJallti and CKillor all got on AFTER me.

[ChronX]

I got a prod. I am here and not unhappy with my vote on GD. Waiting to see what happens. The options are claim, hammer, or nothing much.

Holy quoting out of context Maz. Too bad the original post is still there in its original context to expose you for what you did.

On Sunday, Undo puts up a vote count, Greenday is at L-2. Sir Wario, 4 hours later, asks for a claim. 3 hours after THAT, ckillor makes it L-1. I checked the site, picked up a prod, and when I went to post my reply, I saw that CK had cast his vote. I dashed off the post quoted above, which accurately states that my vote was staying on Greenday (at that point, since it was before his meltdown) and that the options for what were going to happen going forward were...GD could claim (he did, sort of ), someone could hammer (no one did) or nothing much (that sure hasn't turned out to be the case).

No reason to wait for GD to be replaced to

VOTE Maz Medias

[ChronX]

We

(=Chronx,Maz Medias,White)

're the only 3 doing anything at the moment.

I want to be put in that list! The rest of the point of that way of thinking stands however.

I feel my pressure has got the wrong effect (him giving up rather than defending). I don't consider giving up this way as a scumtell. On the other hand I will leave my vote there because I still consider it justified. And I can live with ckillor conclusion above.

I think I have to reread the White-ckillor-MazMedias discussion to see if there is more to it than 3 eager players overreacting to eachother. Once the alignment of one of the 3 is known this discussion might give further information.

I DO consider it a scumtell. Usually, the resigned/angry townie posts the "go ahead and lynch me, you'll be sorrywhen you find out I'm town" woe is me post, which scum also sometimes try to pull so it becomes WIFOM/nulltell. THIS meltdown was a whole different breed. In no way does it read as "I'm town" to me.

[ChronX]

We

(=Chronx,Maz Medias,White)

're the only 3 doing anything at the moment.

I want to be put in that list! The rest of the point of that way of thinking stands however.

I feel my pressure has got the wrong effect (him giving up rather than defending). I don't consider giving up this way as a scumtell. On the other hand I will leave my vote there because I still consider it justified. And I can live with ckillor conclusion above.

I think I have to reread the White-ckillor-MazMedias discussion to see if there is more to it than 3 eager players overreacting to eachother. Once the alignment of one of the 3 is known this discussion might give further information.

Since you want to be included in the actively playing list, why don't you suggest your top 2 suspects and why? You have been very non commital so far, focussing mainly on Greenday but now fretting that your contribution to the pressure on him caused him to crack. Your predecessor didn't do much either (Fernando went after AlyG and ck, both of whom you have explicitly or implicitly cleared in your posting).

I'm not saying you have been scummy, you aren't anywhere near my top suspect list. But your play hasn't been hugely protown either, in that you have asked some good questions but not followed anything aggressively. I think you have showed some good skill at asking direct questions and would like to see you help the town some more.

[ChronX]

Right now I'd like to throw an FoS out on anyone who is still voting for GreenDay. Scum or not, if we lynch him, we're not going to get much information out of his lynch. I'm vehemently opposed to a D1 lurker lynch and no one has made much of a case on him.

As for my opinion on Sir Wario, I haven't really seen significant enough change in his behaviour to change my mind and I haven't really had anyone else jump out enough at me to move my vote. I'm certainly not tunneling, but I'm not seeing really strong scum tells from anyone else. White is the closest thing to an alternate suspect right now, but his recent go around has me a little uncertain about his scumminess.

I don't think that White and ChronX should be pushing on Maz as strongly as they did. I certainly find myself on Maz's side of this argument, but I don't think those two would tie up so neatly as scum.

I have noticed that Nekka has been a unusually silent about the entire GreenDay wagon except for his call for claim. He also made an unvote because he may have spotted something, but pretty much dropped that point. I would like to hear more from him.

I disagree that all of the votes on GD were for lurking, mine was based on who he voted and when (votecount on the votees when he cast his vote). I think others voted him for some things he did when here, such as justifying suspicion on someone for THEM not posting, when he himself has lurked. Its not so much that he is lurking but he has tried to have it both ways.

Actually, I disagree with your conclusions about SirW and the spat between me and MM too, but...I DO like your post. Calm and rational, thank you for it.

And, since I mention it, I have seen better play out of Sir Wario lately and he has fallen on my scumlist too. Although I would like to point out to him that this post is self-contradictory:

I don't see a Maz/Greenday pairing. Its way too soon to be mathcing people up. Maz just seemed pissed that Greenday deserted the game. Rightly so because Greenday completely stalled the game until now.

White and ChronX seem more suspicious to me with their recent push on Maz.

You say it is too early to match people up, and then match up White and I. Not a big deal, perhaps you would like to elaborate?

[ChronX]

ALERT: Family plans most of the weekend, which includes Monday (US pseudo-holiday). Very limited time to spend on Mafia.

[ChronX]

I agree with your analysis on roleclaim, especially Day 1, for someone who is on the block.

I also believe the mafia generally have at least 1 person among them who udnerstand this perfectly well, which is why I believe the hue and cry for a roleclaim almost always harbors at least one scum.

Maz keeps harping on how he (GD) might claim something "confirmable", but on day 1 (without a night, to boot) the only thing partially confirmable is a mason claim. And, in general, one dead mason is of more benefit to the town than 2 claimed but unverified live ones. Too much WIFOM until one is dead and we know for sure its a mason.

[ChronX]

Maz keeps harping on how he (GD) might claim something "confirmable", but on day 1 (without a night, to boot) the only thing partially confirmable is a mason claim. And, in general, one dead mason is of more benefit to the town than 2 claimed but unverified live ones. Too much WIFOM until one is dead and we know for sure its a mason.

The hell, dude? You specifically asked me not to speculate on what he could claim that's confirmable and now you're going off on your own tangent. Since you've broken spades, I'll make it clear that you are stupid while avoiding a mention of specific roles.

I made it crystal clear that I did not mean he was confirmable in the sense of 'can immediately provide already-occurring evidence of his role'. However, anything with a FUTURE CONFIRMABLE RESULT still qualifies as confirmable. Just because we can't confirm said hypothetical role today doesn't mean that it couldn't be confirmed later on, thus averted a mislynch - one of a potential power role, at that.

You need to keep better track of the people who find you scummy. It was White who asked you not to suggest roles. You, however, all but posted a link to the Wiki anyway with your "confirmable, confirmable, confirmable", so I didn't really see the need to keep mum.

You are not an asset to this town. Since Greenday made it to -1 and blew up, you have done NOTHING for the town except beg and plead for Greenday to claim and everyone else to spare him (which we have, because we know how to play, not because you hold any sway).

The only other thing you have done is:

Unvote, Vote: White, FoS: ckillor, ChronX, Nekka, Jenter, SirWario

I'll give more reasons on each of those soon, when I finish my English assignment.

That was October 2nd. What grade did you get on your assignment?

[ChronX]

So, who do you find scummy and want to see lynched in place of Greenday?

[ChronX]

By the way, to answer my own question regarding my own opinions:

I believe Greenday's meltdown is a sure scumtell. It reeks of a player recognizing they screwed up, got bagged and now gave up. Metagame wise, GD wasn't much of a player anyway, and hasn't posted on the site in weeks.

Many members of this game are annoyed that a player would do this, but Maz seems to have a stake in Greenday's survival. His reaction, and the amount of time it is lasting, is all out of proportion. His play is also quite poor; maybe he just gets players confused, but he has done it repeatedly. It rather seems like a strategy to spread a little guilt around unfoundedly.

Undo has let us know that he cannot follow the game during the week, so I don't think we should just sit around while we wait for him to not read the thread until near the deadline itself. I also don't think that there will be much of a resolution to the Greenday situation, since one wasn't posted last weekend and again, Undo has said there is no internet access available to him during the week. Since he has turned the night deadlines into a 1 week interval, he doesn't seem to have deputized much of the co-modding to Talitha. No offense to her intended, but her last post mentions she is prodding Greenday.

So, I suggest that the rest of us need to devise a plan which DOESN'T rely on a Greenday replacement before the deadline.

Each of us should answer the question:
Do I think Greenday is scummy enough to lynch now? If so, put your vote back on him. OR
Who else is scummy and should be lynched today INSTEAD of Greenday? Post a case and cast your vote.

There is no reason to waste days doing nothing. Act like we are deadlined and accomplish something.

Currently, my vote is on Maz for the reasons outlined above, but I would be fine with getting back on the Greenday bandwagon if we as a town are inclined to agree he is probably scum.

[ChronX]

unvote
Vote:Greenday

Being consistent with what I said in my last post.

[ChronX]

You know, one day people will learn to read other people's games before trying to meta them. I get players confused - a lot. And I get angry at stupid shit like this - a lot. If you're going to try to meta, meta EVERYONE and meta RIGHT.

I'd also like to point out that I never said Green Day wasn't scummy or lynchable - but I

will not vote for him

without a claim, period, end of discussion.

Who meta'd you?

Who DO you think is lynchable today? Did I miss a claim from White?

[ChronX]

White, I was being sarcastic to Maz because he refuses to vote GD until GD claims, but had no problem voting you (or Nekka). It seems poor play to overlook GD's scumminess but cast gut instinct votes on others.

Maybe Maz is just afraid of sticking out by casting the hammer vote. He doesn't seem to handle any kind of pressure against himself or his buddy well at all.

[ChronX]

Maybe Maz is just afraid of sticking out by casting the hammer vote. He doesn't seem to handle any kind of pressure against himself or his buddy well at all.

QFT

Thanks for the potty posts, Maz. It helps your credibility.

[ChronX]

Maz, I would like to credit you for a rational post explaining your position (no sarcasm from me here). I still don't agree with your opinion (I think the WIFOM situations it opens up isn't beneficial) but at least now I understand your side and can concede it is a valid viewpoint.

[ChronX]

Where did Bookitty defend Greenday?

Why is this game plagued with people who keep confusing players and/or facts?

[ChronX]

I'm not keen on Bookitty's

defence

of Greenday right now. I don't think he's the right lynch, but she's pushing this a little too hard for someone without much knowledge.

I'm not certain how anyone could construe my postings about Green Day as a defence. I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you explain, please?

OK, maybe I wasn't thinking all that clearly when I read your posts last night. I got a feeling that you were trying to push back against the GreenDay lynch when you were arguing so clearly that he was scum just a page before.

I do find it a little surprising that everyone pulled off their votes so quickly considering we all knew that GreenDay was being replaced.

I'm not sold on the greenday lynch, but I'll be very annoyed with anyone who would hammer him before he had a chance to claim. If he refuses to claim, that's another story.

I don't understand these 2 posts. First, HH complains that everyone has pulled their vote off, but then he will be annoyed if anyone hammers. Did he forget (mostly) everyone pulled their vote off? And why will he be annoyed? It looks like Bateristo had his chance to claim and has declined to do so. I read his post as either an implicit vanilla claim, or as Nekka suggests, a transparent indication of being scum who will not give a scum-indication to a cop investigation.

I don't see any case at all on Sir Wario nor any effort to make any other sort of pro-town move. At one point HH complains that Sir Wario continues to ignore his vote; why wouldn't he? Its a lone vote that has been there since nearly the random stage. I see this as possible distancing.

And lest we not forget, HH is replacing Thorum, he of the lets rush to night post and bandwagon of AlyG. By itself, that seemed like a newbie null tell, but we can't fail to weigh it into any consideration of HH's play.

Others: I still don't like Maz's urgency over the lynch of Greenday.

Sir Wario I think has been more town in the second half of the 15 or so pages of the game; I don't always agree with his logical deductions but I don't have to agree to see him as town. I don't see any obvious conclusions that seem to be trying to mislead.

White: After a reread in isolation I am beginning to see the scum vibes people are getting from him. Voted Green Day for a good reason, but his later posts about him were a little too rough ("I'd also really like to see a defense or something from Greenday or i'm going to push so hard for his lynch he won't know what hit him. ") Buddies up uncomfortably with Gameshark repeatedly during his analysis, and buddies up with me when I get annoyed with Maz. Buddies up again with me and Bookitty after I suggest restoring our votes on GD.

Gameshark: needs to be replaced. Was doing good investigative work and lost steam. His disappearance is a null tell since it seems to be based on real life circumstances. But he promised us content in a day a week ago, after a prod.

@ mod: gameshark? reprod? replace?

Thats what stands out to me.

unvote

FoSs: White, HackerHuck

[ChronX]

/agree with Maz.

FoS Hjallti for saying such a thing.

[ChronX]

I think its looking for an excuse to tie roles that might use a knife or seem more violent to mafia roles, and get us to mislynch.

[ChronX]

Back up cop is an incredibly weak claim. The cop has to die, then the back up cop has to live to give an investigation result, which has to be positive (scum hit) and has to lynch positive. And that assumes the claimed back up cop isn't actually mafia who then busses a fellow mafia to gain the town's trust.

You DO understand that any of these claims depend on SOMEONE dying for the confirmation to be achieved, right (except for mod-confirmed townie)?

[ChronX]

Good "summary" Bookitty! I agree with your conclusions, and vote.

unvote

if I'm voting
restore my vote where it belonged

Vote: Maz Medias

[ChronX]

So, Hjallti, what DOES the scum role flavor look like?

/sarcasm off

[ChronX]

I don't understand what Nekka and Hjallti hope to accomplish with their posts. If dropping hints is breadcrumbing, they are dropping loaves.

[ChronX]

Alright, I've seen enough to finally

Vote:White

He has tried to buddy up to ChronX by agreeing with most of his arguments against Maz. In that way, if he's lynched we would probably go after ChronX. If ChronX is lynched and comes up town, then he looks better.

He has vote hopped from Bateristo to Maz to Jenter to Nekka. His case on Maz seemed forced maybe to draw attention away from Bateristo. His vote on Jenter was way to quick and unneccesary at that moment. Though, Jenter hasn't posted anything of use really. I don't like his last vote on Nekka because it seemed obvious to me that he hasn't had time to re-read or anything. To me, its a null tell. We all are all busy at times.

I agree that White's vote on Nekka is VERY scummy after Nekka soft claimed. Nekka's posts are a bit odd, IGMYEO worthy but definitely not vote worthy.

unvote
HoS White

I don't see how White "buddying" to me makes ME suspect, or how if I lynch as town it clears White. The whole point of buddying is that scum latch onto a townie and agree with their argument, and the townie is deceived into becoming their "buddy". I'm supposed to think, golly White agrees with me, he must be town too. If I were to be lynched and come up town, it makes White MORE suspect if anything.

[ChronX]

/ooc TOTALLY not game related, but I gotta say (I may have said before) to Sir Wario that I really don't like your sig. Even if you are referring to some quote, its not the sort of sentiment I like to see expressed.

[ChronX]

I'm willing to give Bat the benefit of the doubt. This post is a lot better than prior ones....maybe the wall of green really WAS an issue. We were associating it with....Greenday.

I'm going to

vote: White

for putting a vote on Nekka after Nekka softclaimed.

I'm struggling to figure out what the heck Hjallti is saying.

@Hjallti, it SEEMS like you are saying that the people you HoSd must be scum because we don't have power role flavor to refer to. Are you suggesting that all pro town players are power roles?

[ChronX]

EBWOP for clarity:

White's vote is contradictory and may be trying to pull a vote off himself by trying to entice Maz back onto his old pet bandwagon NL. See above for other reasons when I FoSd White.

[ChronX]

I am not voting Bateristo because:

1: His play has improved markedly since his first post, which leads me to give his first post the benefit of the doubt. I am still new enough to this site to remember that one can get oneself in trouble until one learns the native customs.

2: We have a bandwagon on the roster spot occupied by Bateristo to study in the future. Other scummy behavior has since emerged, and we are no longer under imminent deadline. Therefor we should use the time given us to pressure other scummy people and learn all that we can.

A good example: bateristo was the one who called Sir Wario for explaining Hacker Huck's statement. This captures the essence of both 1 and 2: Bateristo is playing the game well AND we have suspect behavior from 2 players.

I would in fact, like Sir Wario to explain why he felt he had to jump in and explain HH's comments, when it was clear what the purpose of Bookittty's question was, and in fact, it was a repeated question making it all the more meaningful for HH to address it himself or continue to ignore it.

FoS HackerHuck and Sir Wario

[ChronX]

No, I guess I'm missing the point.

In that case:

@ HackerHuck

Do YOU know why Bookitty asked the question?
Why have you ducked it?
How do you feel about Sir Wario's answer? Is it accurate?

[ChronX]

I politely beg to differ.

Joining a game here is a commitment to the other X number of people. REPLACING into a game is even more of a commitment since the game has already been disrupted by the role you are subbing into at least once.

Real life happens, and when it does, you should step aside from your commitments and let someone else who can keep the commitment play. I have a full time job, a large family, and a long commute. When/if any of that or an unforeseen circumstance causes me to not keep up with my games here, I would have to ask to be replaced.

Alternately, you should just lock the game until all the participants have returned and said they can play fully. It is really stupid to allow the leading vote getter to lurk away a week while we would undoubtedly politely focus on other subjects.

Gameshark said on the 16th that he would post more thoughts in an hour and a half. Today is the 20th. Prod or replace please.

ckillor hasn't posted since the 15th. Prod NOW please.
ditto Maz. prod NOW please.
ditto Jenter. Prod NOW please.


Alternately, just replace me. I like the 4 other people actually playing the game but I'll just look forward to seeing them in a full game another time.

[ChronX]

Alternately, just replace me. I like the 4 other people actually playing the game but I'll just look forward to seeing them in a full game another time.

Does that mean you want to leave the game if I don't follow your suggestions?

I would like to hear from the other players too.

I assume the prods have been sent since it is the "tomorrow" of your original post, and you forgot to mention that in THIS post because you felt like being prickly, instead. I don't WANT to be replaced, but I don't really see the point in playing in a game which even the mod is absent from long portions of the time.



@Bookitty: The site just got a dozen or more new members who came from the somethingawful forums, who are eager and willing, and used to 72 hour deadline games. This is an ideal time to seek replacements. The trick when modding is to solicit replacements and THEN make your replacement decisions, not let the game grind to a halt and then panic, and not want to get replacements because it might involve keeping up YOUR (the mods) end of the commitment.

[ChronX]

I and I'm sure the rest of the players also appreciate you taking the time and trouble to mod a game, Undo. And I like the format of the game. I'm just very frustrated that we had the huge gap of downtime due to greenday's stunt, and just when that gets itself sorted and we have an engaged player in that role, the next leading suspect decides to flake on us too, but asks for a huge grace period instead of asking out. As to GS, he needs to either show up with content or also step aside, which as someone with mod experience myself (other site) I suggest you do firmly in PM, and put the onus on him to make his choice. Also, from experience, have some sort of plan in place for repacements...make a deal with another mod that you will each sub into the others game on demand. or maintain a sub list 2 or 3 names long.

ps, I will be glad to do this for anyone currently or futurely running a game I don't sign in to as a starter.

This is to the players not the mod: just as Maz took greenday's stunt "personally", I take this inactivity personally. If you can't reasonably expect to follow all new posts and contribute yourself 4-5 days a week, with understanding given to things coming up such as RL or a deadline in another game (things which come and go in other words) you don't belong in THIS game (THIS=mafiascum). Sign up for the number of games you can keep up with, between zero and 4 as your life dictates. Have the courtesy to remove yourself from games when you can't play. Take the initiative and ask a friend from the forum if they can replace you, and offer that to the mod when you ask to be repalced. Active players, recruit for Undo, ask good players in other games to submit themselves as standby's in case we do need replacements. This is a great setup and an interesting situation; any good player would love to get into this mix.

[ChronX]

Thanks

Thanks for the vote count

Happy Birthday!

[ChronX]

@ mod please replace me, I've gotten graduate degrees in less time than day 1 is taking.