Open 42 - Friends and Enemies - (Game Over) before 495

[Jex]

vote Khelvaster

[Jex]

unvote, vote crub

for being opportunistic and being 4th on the YB bandwagon.

[Jex]

OMGUS!

unvote;vote Jex

For being scum

Well, my vote had been justified randomness in order to get a reaction, and this was quite an interesting one. I think it's interesting that your retaliation went unnoticed until Lemming's post. I'm keeping my vote on you because I don't really understand the YB bandwagon and think at least one scum joined in on it. In my eyes, you are the most likely to be that scum so far. You have contributed very little, and your OMGUS vote back at me makes me wonder.

[Jex]

Well, I really don't know what to add to the discussion at this point. I'm slightly lost with all the different suspicions. I really don't understand the YB bandwagon and why it is going as far as it is. I'm surprised scum hasn't hammered him yet, unless of course he is scum, and that's your reason, or all the scum are already on the bandwagon. So, in order to add thoughts, I'm doing a PBPA of the first person on the list (alphabetically) which just happens to be crub:

Crub:

Post 1:

Random vote YB

Post 2:

OMGUS vote Jex

Post 3:

Says that his OMGUS vote on Jex was a joke and goes on to talk about bandwagons having multiple meanings in the game since we have masons.

Post 4:

This post I really don't like. Why bring up that you know who the masons are? I don't see the point of this random statement, followed by an unexplained vote. Apparently he doesn't claim to be a mason himself, and doesn't believe that Sir T is a mason based on his vote. By saying that you have figured out the masons it makes me believe that either you are scum trying to pinpoint the masons, or you don't mind helping the scum by pointing out that the masons are supposedly obvious. Either way, I don't like it.

Post 5:

Seem to be covering his tracks as he explains why he brought up the masons. He says that he wants the masons to be more careful.

Post 6:

His last post goes after Per. Per had brought Crub up in a previous post talking about his random claim on knowing the masons. Crub responds by tearing apart Per's previous post.

Personally, I think Crub is getting off a little too easy in this game. I find it interesting that the group wants to lynch a lurker who's said nothing, but has let some of these posts from crub, who isn't super active, just slip under the radar.

Just my thoughts for now.

[Jex]

Personally, I think Crub is getting off a little too easy in this game. I find it interesting that the group wants to lynch a lurker who's said nothing, but has let some of these posts from crub, who isn't super active, just slip under the radar.

Just my thoughts for now.

Thats nice from someone making their third non random post ... you know what they say about people in glass houses ...

Sorry, I have been busy with getting ready to move and start school. I'm trying to be as active as I can.

[Jex]

I'm glad people are finally looking at crub. And what bone is it I have to pick all of a sudden? I have no bone. I don't like your reactions in the game or the way that you tend to ignore pressure. I think you are scum.

If for some odd reason you were to turn up town, why would you assume simenon is the mafia on the bandwagon? Just curious.

As for Sir T - I definitely understand the bandwagon forming on him as well. I don't like his comment on the "policy lynch" but I semi understand it. There are always those players that you just can never get a read on no matter what, and YB is one of those (at least in my experience). I still don't think YB should be lynched because of this though. I also don't see this comment as enough to lynch Sir T quite yet. I'm keeping my eye on him though.

[Jex]

Well...I've been on crub since the begining so it only makes sense for me to continue until I see someone else acting scummier...which I don't yet.

[Jex]

He wants to kill lemming

Yup. But only after we kill Crub.

It's a pity that it'll be you getting lynched for your un-explained bandwagoning

Seriously? Do you really want to die?

Simenon may have unexplained votes, but Crub has had the lamest responses. All he does is say, "shame you'll have to die when I turn up town" and other such similar statements. He wreaks of scum.

[Jex]

I have extremely limited internet access over the next week or so while I'm moving. I'll try to stay up on the game during that time.

[Jex]

Sorry guys, but apparently my internet it going to be gone for longer then I thought. It'll be at least another week or two before I have consistent internet. For now I'm just kind of checking in.

For now, I'm sticking with my gut reaction on crub. I always get swayed from my gut reactions by the rest of the town, and then the person I originally thought turns out to be scum later down the line. I don't know if that's for sure the case right now as I can't be positive about anyone being scum or not, but my vote is staying where it is for now.

[Jex]

I'm responding to my prod. I haven't had time to sit and read the thread since I still don't have internet at my house. I'm getting internet Monday, and will catch up as soon as that happens. I'm sorry once again for my inactivity. I feel horrible about it.

[Jex]

FOS Jex

You haven't found anyone but Crub suspicious during day one. You and Simenon had been pushing his lynch for almost the whole day.

To be honest, my activity day 1 sucked. I was truly suspicious of Crub to begin with and didn't like his defenses. Then I lost internet for 2 weeks because I was moving. The few posts I made during the internetless weeks were quick throw ins because I didn't truly have time to read through the posts. In fact I still haven't had time to read the last few pages of day 1, which I plan on doing very soon. My suspicions never really changed because I wasn't reading the thread. You'll notice my activity in all of my games during this period was incredibly poor. Normally when I know I'm going to be inactive I remove my vote from anyone, however, I felt strongly that Crub was scum, so I chose to keep my vote on him while I was gone. He never gave me any reason to think that he wasn't scum. Unfortunately, my instincts were not correct.

[Jex]

Once again, I'm incredibly sorry about being lurky in this game. I'm responding to my prod. I did a full read through (well, a quick read through) so I am officially caught up now.

After my read through, the person that sticks out as the scummiest to me is Lemming. His hammer vote on day 1 really irks me. Its seems that the whole day he was going for sammich, but as soon as crub was at L-1 he went "i guess that works too" and then jumped on. I also find some of his arguments against Sammich a little weak.

I want to do a re read of both lemming and sammich, but for now I'm all readed out (and yes I just made up a word).

For now,

vote lemming

[Jex]

As I've said for the hammer, I was just tired of the day and I found them both good options. We weren't getting anywhere, and the mod was threatening a deadline. I decided we'd gone on long enough and it was time to move the game forward.

I would like to know where you find my argument on sammich stretching though. He FoS'd 4 people, and there's 3 scum...that's blatant spaghetti strategy

While there are only 3 mafia members, there are still 10 possible mafia (9 if one doesn't count themself). Sammich FOSed people for the reasons he found them suspicious. He wanted answers. I don't see anything wrong with that. If he were to simply lay a vote on, then he would have to flop around to get all the answers he wanted instead of just doing it all in one post. I know I tend to do that type of a thing a lot, and I don't see it as scummy.

P.S. - I'm by no means saying I don't think Sammich is scummy, I'm just saying I don't think that particular strategy is scummy.

[Jex]

1: the question you asked me was loaded.
2: the first question you asked Simenon was loaded. The second question you asked Simenon was manipulative in that it tries to pre-empt any attacks he makes on you today as scummy. Actually, this applies to the question you asked me too.
3: the question you asked Lemming you provided an answer in the question itself, thus stripping it of any worth, when it could have been a useful avenue of exploration today.

You make a good point. I guess I was mostly just paying attention to the questions he asked me, which was a good question to ask.

[Jex]

Jex - randomvotes Khelvaster. Votes Crub for putting YogurtBandit at L-2 (Hmm.) When Crub OMGUS's him, he tries to set the foundation for a case against Crub. In his next post, he says he's "doing a PBPA of the first person on the list (alphabetically) which just happens to be crub:" (Please. Whether you're scum, town, or Mason, there's no "just happens to be" when every post since your second has targeted Crub.) His PBPA is the beginning of a weak case on Crub that, coupled with Crub's refusal to defend himself, will end in a mislynch. Finally, he notes that Crub is lurking. Crub points out that Jex is on his fourth post, one of which is a randomvote with no explanation. Jex apologises. He remains silent until public opinion sways against Crub, at which time he pops back up and leaps onto the bandwagon, all the while reminding that he's been on Crub since the beginning. His eighth post, on Sep. 14, I really don't like. He responds to Crub's fatalism by saying such fatalism "wreaks [sic] of scum." (This could be a honest mistake, but if so, it's a giant one. At best: Townies aren't afraid to die to help the town win. A 1-for-1 trade is beneficial to the town, and that's what Crub wanted out of this one. At worst: WIFOM. But it's hard to interpret this as reeking of scum.) He apologises for inactivity, saying that he'll "stay up on the game," and defends his vote on Crub by saying that his gut instincts are always right. (O RLY?)

As for Day 1, I was wrong. I was a horible town member on Day 1 because of my inactivity. I've already explained this a bunch, and don't feel the need to go into again. My gut was wrong this time, but it happens. Crub didn't give me any reason to think otherwise as his defense was very OMGUS. I didn't remove my vote at all because I was fairly certain that he was scum. Again, I was wrong, and we know that now. I wasn't the only one on the wagon though, so just because I focused on him shouldn't make me automatic scum.

He claims to have done a readthrough and votes Lemming, although mentioning that he also is looking at Sammich. His justification is the hammer on Day 1 (You were VOTING for Crub. If you didn't want him susceptible to a hammer, unvote.)

Yes I was voting for Crub, but lemmings vote on crub was merely because he wanted the day over. He hadn't found crub scummy the entire day then suddenly hammers. I find that attitude anti-town.

Right now I don't know who I think is scum, Lemming stuck out on my quick read through. Now I'm watching to see if things stand out.

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On to other posts:

I really don't understand what Sammich's vote analysis was supposed to point out. Apparently I missed something. I don't know.

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In Sammich's analyis, I don't understand how the two quote from me correlate.

Also, I thought Jex's post here was somewhat scummy.

While there are only 3 mafia members, there are still 10 possible mafia (9 if one doesn't count themself). Sammich FOSed people for the reasons he found them suspicious. He wanted answers. I don't see anything wrong with that. If he were to simply lay a vote on, then he would have to flop around to get all the answers he wanted instead of just doing it all in one post. I know I tend to do that type of a thing a lot, and I don't see it as scummy.

Phate said basically the same thing as this later on, but you didn't seem to find that scummy. Why is mine scummy?

Which is a complete differental to the later post of:

You make a good point. I guess I was mostly just paying attention to the questions he asked me, which was a good question to ask.

This regarded a completely different topic. I was agreeing with Shanba that some of the arguments/questions you asked lacked logic and were WIFOM, especially the question asked of Shanba. I hadn't looked very closely at the questions asked to other people as I focused on answering the question asked of me, which was a viable question. It's one thing to give logical reasons for thinking people are scum, and having more possibilities then remaining scum (you can't eliminate anyone if you don't get answers), but to ask random WIFOM questions doesn't get anyone closer to figuring it out.

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I find it interesting that in Sammich's analysis Lemming does not appear at all except for his critique of Sammich's pointless vote analysis and his vote. Yes, Lemming put Sammich at L-1 and I find this scummy simply because he also hammered day 1. However, Sammich votes Lemming on that one post alone. To me, the vote seems kind of OMGUS.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

unvote

I need to think.

[Jex]

O sad...I just noticed I died. Go town!

[Jex]

Sad day. I was really hoping the town would pull it off. Shanba, way to represent the masons in the end, you did us proud . I was surprised that the mafia chose to kill me when I did. I was almost positive that I would die of being lynched (well, have to claim my role). I looked incredibly scummy the time I was alive. I guess it goes to show that you can never truly predict a mafia.