Mini 508- Trouble in New Catania-Game Over

[Thesp]

The Fonz just told me I'm replacing Rite. I won't post anything significant until he confirms this.

[Thesp]

Why is Lowell's vote hopping and all around jumpiness being vastly ignored?

I'm shocked and apalled.

OH THE IRONY IT BURNS MY EYES AND MAKES IT HARD TO TYPE KCXSDJXNUBHBDAHCBSXASDSPWOKS

I know I haven't been saying much, however there isn't much to say.

...

As to the last comment, I wanted to say that now, before it could be seen as defending or attacking someone. By stating it now as theory, I hope to head off some bad arguments on day 2. It is WIFOM reasoning, but because of WIFOM reasoning, it does not seem to me that who voted to lynch a player on day 1 is a strong indicator of who is scum under these circumstances. Someone2's post could be read to imply that we would find the scum on the 'lynch Lowell' side if Lowell is town and the 'don't lynch Lowell' side if he isn't.

Rishi hit upon this a little bit, but I found it disturbing that he claimed there was nothing to say, then expounded upon something said several pages prior.

Isn't it strange that Kuribo clears the second-most scummy person on your list, Thok?

How am I cleared? (Reading through, Thok says this as well.) (Looks like Vaughn acknowledges this. Still a weird statement.)

Having said that, here's a question for Thok:
Could you elaborate why you have Vaughn and Rishi on your town list?

I want to hear this as well, esp. re: Vaughn.

My best guess at who the scum are: Vaughn, Thok, and RossWilliam. I really, really don't like RossWilliam's first significant post. (Note: I wouldn't be surprised by a Vaughn-Rishi pair either, though I'm otherwise inclined to think of Rishi as town.)

I have to question the people currently voting Kuribo without even wanting to know if Thesp is able to verify the claim.

I'm uncertain as to what you're saying here - are you suggesting I wait to confirm/deny kuribo's claim? I'll wait for your response before proceeding in that arena.

Vote: Vaughn.

[Thesp]

Shrug, Let's hear more from Thesp. A confirmation would at least perhaps give direction and insight into Kuribo's claim (or designate a possible scum-pairing).

I'm awaiting CrashTextDumie's response before addressing this, see earlier comment.

I'm curious as to why? It could be a perfectly valid concern, or who knows. But at least give me something to explain myself on, before pigeonholing me after I've only made two posts.

Why should I?

P.S. Until Thesp says something significant, I'm still regarding tracker claim as a last ditch, creative effort to save ones ass.

First - how is a tracker claim "creative"? Second, what does my "say[ing] something significant" have to do with anything here?

[Thesp]

I'm uncertain as to what you're saying here - are you suggesting I wait to confirm/deny kuribo's claim? I'll wait for your response before proceeding in that arena.

Actually, I've heard enough already. No need to press this issue further.

Sounds good. I'll confirm I made no nightchoice last night. It does not clear me from being mafia (though perhaps slightly less likely, should both kuribo be town). It does not confirm that the mafia doesn't have a tracking ability, nor does it iron-clad confirm that kuribo wasn't simply making a very lucky guess.

That said, I think it's very unlikely CTD is faking the role, as it's an extremely risky move to make so early. I think it's less likely that the mafia has a tracker role (and I'm playing the meta here, as tracker roles are

almost exclusively

the domain of the town in my experience with mods). I think the wagon/push against him subsequent to claim is highly anti-town, and more likely to be driven by scum.

I'm even happier with my initial listing of scum, and happy with my vote on Vaughn.

[Thesp]

-Neutral

-ROsswilliam(replacement, not enough info to place a judgement on him)
-Thesp(copy-paste)
-thok(copy-paste)

This is a cop-out - what did you think of their predecessors?

Also, everyone should be posting once a day, if they can, even if it's just to say hi.

[Thesp]

Also, everyone should be posting once a day, if they can, even if it's just to say hi.

Hi.

Also, I'm not particularly fond of either the Vaughn or kuribo bandwagons.

vote someone2

Thanks!

[Thesp]

Still here, still eager to lynch Vaughn.

[Thesp]

kuribo bangwagon is making less and less sense, and vaughan bangwagon is making more and more. while I hate to just be wagon jumping, i'd feel not totally together doing anything else.

unvote, vote: Vaughan

This post bothers me. A lot. It makes me feel slightly less good about voting Vaughn. (I still expect to lynch him.) If we had more time, I'd hound RossWilliam so bad right now. He's going down tomorrow.

I think we should lynch someone by Friday, January 11th. It will ensure a lynch, and avoid last second excuses. (I will also be out of town on Saturday.)

Unvote: Vaughn.

Vaughn, claim or die. Now.

[Thesp]

This is a cop-out - what did you think of their predecessors?

The only one I can talk about is LML(DrippingGoofBall didn't post a lot, rite and Death-omen were lurkers) I have found LML relatively townie, except some time where he was dramatizing every detail.

But rite made some significant posts, and surely you have some fleeting impression of Death-omen?

[Thesp]

Last chance for Vaughn.

[Thesp]

I can verify Kuribo's claim by telling him to "watch" me. Other than that, My role is a tad unorthodox but other than confirming a tracker-like role, it's like a vanilla townie.

You realize that this is NOT a claim?

QFT. Full claim. Now.

[Thesp]

Vote: Vaughn.

[Thesp]

Please no one hammer until Vaughn explains this. I would like to know his reasoning behind listing us 3 as a scum group, and I'd like to hear a claim.

I agree with this post.

Also: more people need to be checking in, even if they have nothing to say.

[Thesp]

Please no one hammer until Vaughn explains this. I would like to know his reasoning behind listing us 3 as a scum group, and I'd like to hear a claim.

I agree with this post.

Also: more people need to be checking in, even if they have nothing to say.

I almost forgot a caveat - hammer away if we don't hear from Vaughn by tomorrow afternoon.

[Thesp]

Someone please hammer Vaughn. Now. Thanks.

[Thesp]

Someone please hammer Vaughn. Now. Thanks.

I agree. Vaughn might be stalling hoping that the deadline passes.

The mafia might be doing the same as well.

[Thesp]

Also checking in. I'll need to look at all the wagons from yesterday again, but I'll also be looking at everyone who was doubting kuribo, especially immediately after kuribo's claim.

[Thesp]

I'm increasingly uncomfortable with Thok.

Vote: Thok.

I would be happy lynching RossWilliam as well. I am largely disinterested in someone2, though I would like to hear more of his thoughts.

I also would like to see streeflo replaced.

Mod: Can streeflo be replaced?

If he's picking up his prods and not posting, it's clear he doesn't want to play.

[Thesp]

Ok. I'm back. Sorry for replacing out earlier in the game.

But I'm kinda LA until the 30th. I have plenty of access to the computer, but some RL stuff is giving me enough of a headache that not often I'm in the mood for mafia. I'll be reading and answering questions and voting but probably won't do a re-read until feb.

So, could anyone put me up to date with who claimed, who was under the hotseat, etc? Pretty please?

Thanks

Doing objective stuff is fine, but I'm hesitant to see someone doing much of a subjective recap for someone else. Sorry, Claus, it's probably better if you look over things yourself.

On the objective side, I believe it's been raised that I made no nightchoice on N1, which was confirmed by a dead tracker. Beyond that, I don't think there's been much else by way of claims - someone correct me here is I am mistaken.

[Thesp]

People need to post. Or die. There's more than just Claus here.

[Thesp]

I am largely disinterested in someone2, though I would like to hear more of his thoughts.

Any reason you're "disinterested" in him?

There were one or two significant actions he made and/or things he said which made me think that he's likely to be town. Thanks for asking.

Thesp you can give us another ranking rundown on everybody. Your good at that and I take it you enjoy that. maybe get people talking.

I am actually quite averse to rundowns on everybody in a single post/session. Any guesses as to why?

[Thesp]

Can someone who's voting for someone2 explain why? Maybe I missed something from D1, but as far as I can tell, I can't imagine why people think he's more likely to be scum than a handful of people. I think he's odd, and I think he's been wrong on a number of things, but I haven't seen a lot to indicate he's more likely to be scum. Quite the opposite, I think.

A re-read of the second half of the game reminds me of why RossWilliam needs to die.

Unvote: Thok, Vote: RossWilliam

. Thok can be tomorrow. I don't like the manner in which RossWilliam justified his vote yesterday, and I don't know if I've liked any post he's made in this game.

Ythill, I appreciate you replacing into the game, I'd like you to confirm that RossWilliam and Thok are your scumpartners for us, if you would.

[Thesp]

Ythill... I'd like you to confirm that RossWilliam and Thok are your scumpartners for us, if you would.

Sure, RW and Thok are my... wait a minute. My role PM says I'm town. Sorry, if I can figure out this mixup, I'll be glad to confirm their alignments.

I like you.

[Thesp]

He was active and talkative D1 and made several slip ups. He managed to get out of the spotlight and is now laying really low. My thought is that he is afraid that if he is active he'll keep making mistakes and won't be able to get out of it next time.

Might a townie react the same way? (I'm also not certain that the "slip ups" you refer to are indeed "slip ups".)

[Thesp]

I'd like to hear a claim from RossWilliam, but he's absconded.

[Thesp]

I am still awaiting RossWilliam's claim.

[Thesp]

Waiting on RossWilliam - thanks everyone who's checking in.

[Thesp]

Happy with my vote.

[Thesp]

Does anyone see a compelling reason to lynch anyone but Thok?

[Thesp]

Does anyone see a compelling reason to lynch anyone but Thok?

Not offhand, but compelling is a strong word. You infer that you

do

have compelling reason(s) to lynch Thok. Will you state/consolidate/reiterate your case?

I am starting my reread of RW. Analysis to follow. I will vote when I post it.

Yeah, RossWilliams basically did squat.

[Thesp]

Does anyone see a compelling reason to lynch anyone but Thok?

The fact that RW did absolutely nothing to defend himself, even though he theoretically had a role to claim. That screams that RW was letting himself get bussed to make his partners look better.

Looking over how the RW wagon happened, I'm going with a vote Thesp. He didn't jump on RW immediately day 2, despite having suspicions of him coming from the Vaughn mislynch; he only voted on RW after a someone2 wagon started forming.

Thesp/someone2 actually make a good scum pair to my mind, give how the bandwagons happened yesterday.

Actually, I was thinking that you made sense as a RossWilliam scumpartner, seeing that you claimed passing acceptance of the wagon on him, but actively pushed someone2 as RossWilliam was taking heat. You were uncharacteristically quiet during the whole RossWilliam bandwagon. I also am uncertain as to how RossWilliam's poor play "screams that [he] was letting himself get bussed to make his partners look better", rather than RW was making a poor tactical play, which seems far more likely.

Super happy with my vote.

[Thesp]

Super happy with my vote.

What vote?

Oops.

Vote: Thok.

[Thesp]

I forget, what was everyone's thought on a massclaim?

My thought on this matter is: confirm vote: Lowell.

I think scum are less likely to suggest a massclaim at this point, personally. If you think Thok and Lowell are our scums, why not lynch Thok first?

I'm against massclaim right now.

[Thesp]

Okay then:

I hereby suggest a massclaim.

Now, what are everyone's thoughts? Particularly given our seeming lack of power roles, I'm not really sure why folks are so instinctively opposing this.

I'm not sure why you're

for

it. Why is this a good idea?

[Thesp]

Last night was

awesome

.

Before we go lynching anyone, I would like to discuss the possibility of an invesitgative role claim only - that is, I'd like for everyone to claim if they are a cop, a roleblocker

who blocked someone last night

, or neither. The failed kill gives us some room to play here.

No one should claim if they are a doctor or not, and no one should claim to be a vanilla townie

. I also don't want anyone to claim either way unless there's some consensus on this.

What do you all think?

[Thesp]

Please explain why you think a cop should claim. I agree that if a roleblocker stopped the NK, he/she should claim, and I'm fine with posting a mass yes or no on this topic.

There is an implied doctor/kill-stopper in the game that can prevent the cop from dying. Scum knows this. (There is the off-chance scum decided not to kill, but I consider this highly unlikely/worth the risk at this point.) There is a more awesome scenario if we have a successful RBer last night

and

a cop.

FYI - when/if a cop claims, they should not claim any investigations yet.

[Thesp]

I am not a roleblocker, nor a cop with an immediate, game-ending investigation.

[Thesp]

Yes.

[Thesp]

Lowell, claim or die.

[Thesp]

I'll concede I've hunted little this game. In mafiascum, sometimes you feel like you're in control and have a good read on things. In other games, not so much.

Still, this case against me looks weak, at best. Votehopping (especially early in the game) is not a legitimate reason. You're WIFOMing yourself into believng I'm scum. Sometimes, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's just a damn duck. Look elsewhere.

Who do you think is scum? Why?

[Thesp]

Here's the thing - I don't think Setael is scum, largely because of how he went after someone2. I don't think Setael would attack someone2 like he did while Thok was doing the same (though less vehemently), it's not consistent with my experience of how scum go after town. I also don't think someone2 is scum, in large part for how Thok attacked him - it certainly didn't feel like bussing to me!

I have this lingering doubt about Streeflo/Ythill which hasn't subsided, despite Ythill's pristine play.

I want to see what our newcomer thinks.

[Thesp]

I hope this doesn't sound mean, because it's not meant to be: please don't discuss other ongoing games. I think it's unlikely that it has any significant bearing in this instance (and I think you are well-intentioned here and it won't do harm to the game), but as a matter of good form, you may want to avoid it. (Sometimes people will inadvertenly give things away on other instances that they otherwise shouldn't.) Good luck in it, either way.

Still waiting for new guy.

[Thesp]

Vote: Lowell.

Best guess.

[Thesp]

Hmm. Claim time?

I'm seriously beginning to think it's a good idea. It's against the scum's interest to no-kill here - the numbers are terrible for it.

[Thesp]

Setael, you pick who goes next.

[Thesp]

Vanilla townie here.

Ythill

, you're next.

[Thesp]

TheStranger, if you're bulletproof that means there's a (albeit slim) chance there's no doc and in that case we don't want the cop (if any) to claim.

This is incorrect - the cop would have at least two results, and should claim if he exists. I'm not saying further until Claus claims.

[Thesp]

I must admit I'm having a little trouble wrapping my head around this game. I must say there's a lot that doesn't make sense - I almost feel like I should ignore the no-kills and go back to basics. I'll try to get a good post in by the weekend.

Also, re: Ythill's questions, I'm not sure how helpful they are. I'm not sure I'd play any differently, I've played some with DGB, and there are non-killing mafia roles. I think how I'd play a BPT role is largely irrelevant to how I think

someone else

is likely to play a BPT (if any different at all).

[Thesp]

You may now also start wondering if a
Vig/Tracker/Doc/BLT vs Mafia Doc is more or less likely/balanced than
Vig/Tracker/Doc vs Mafia Doc.

There's still one more Mafia role whose ability is in question.

I disagree with ABR's play on so many levels, and I have significant disagreements with any thought of someone2/TheStranger being scum. I think any suggestion of someone2/TheStranger scumness is patently absurd - it's entirely inconsistent with what I have ever seen in scum interaction.

I don't see a townie self voting at this stage of the game. I think Ythill did it because he has no need to fear scum quick lynching him. He's the last scum and if he's on the wagon it's a safe gambit since everyone else are townies. I'm not surprised he's following ABR like a sheep. ABR is making it easy for Ythill to hide behind him.

I agree.

I think that doc protects are likely at this point - I have a hard time not believing Claus/ABR, for game and meta-reasons. If he did protect me both nights, and if at least one of those nights the no-kill is because I was targetted, it seems more likely to come from Ythill than Setael.

Vote: Ythill.

Die scum die.

[Thesp]

Was that actually a lynch?

[Thesp]

Any last minute revelations from anyone? I don't have any.

[Thesp]

Agreed.

Vote: Setael

.

*crosses fingers*

I will be very surprised if the scum super-bussed someone2.