Mini Theme 2264: Fusion Upick | Post Game

[Greeting]

Cat Scratch, Andante, and Rad Rat probably understand why I'm laughing in real life right now over A50's opening posts..

You want to share it with me now or is it better to wait for post-game?

I can't discuss it due to [REDACTED].

Clever. If you mean what I think you mean, I've also been thinking of doing this in-game, but beware of the new rule changes.

[Greeting]

Oh and also hello everyone. Allow me a moment to catch up.

[Greeting]

True, but in the case of Miller I think it would be to the benefit of the Mafia to out such a role. If Mafia gets miller, they can have a potential 2nd person back up their claim because they received miller as well.

Implying nothing, especially this early in the game. Just an observation.

Isn't Miller a specifically pro-town role? Wiki says is it's just a townie who looks dirty.

Also, if Mafia have a Miller, wouldn't that mean it's a mafia who looks green, and why on Earth would they out that? Unless I misunderstood something.

There's a different thing that interests me here and it's

who

submitted Miller as a pick, since it is bound to influence their role as well. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be a Miller.

[Greeting]

Are you a fusion of Miller and Godfather?

I may be, I don't know what I am a fusion of.

This is a lie but that's fine because you're probably town.

Uh, my role PM did not tell me what my pick was fused with. Yours did?

It's in my role name and ability description. The sample Role PMs also make it clear what they've been fused with.

...mine doesn't?

[Greeting]

There's a different thing that interests me here and it's

who

submitted Miller as a pick, since it is bound to influence their role as well. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be a Miller.

You might wanna reread 27.

Firstly, okay, thanks.

Secondly, why on Earth would you do that.

[Greeting]

True, but in the case of Miller I think it would be to the benefit of the Mafia to out such a role. If Mafia gets miller, they can have a potential 2nd person back up their claim because they received miller as well.

Implying nothing, especially this early in the game. Just an observation.

Isn't Miller a specifically pro-town role? Wiki says is it's just a townie who looks dirty.

Also, if Mafia have a Miller, wouldn't that mean it's a mafia who looks green, and why on Earth would they out that? Unless I misunderstood something.

There's a different thing that interests me here and it's

who

submitted Miller as a pick, since it is bound to influence their role as well. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be a Miller.

No.
Miller ability is "Looks Guilty for Cops". It's just happened most often it associate with Cop who see Miller as Mafia member. Universal Miller looks guilty for all invests i believe.

Mafia-Miller still give "Mafia" result.

Godfather is about making Mafia looks Town for checks.


But if Nathann is really "Miller-Godfather" like someone quessed, then there's someone who submitted Godfather. And i don't see anyone claiming that.

I think I get it.

So, if

Nathann

is Miller-Godfather, a Cop who investigates him will get both red and green results and that is not linked with

Nathann

's alignment at all?

That's silly, but I guess it's a possibility.

[Greeting]

Now, as for the actual catchup, this seems to be the other relevant thing going in the game, and for quite a good reason.

Your pick was "Traffic Analyst

"

Your pick was "Bus Driver,"

as a non-town player

, you know it was combined with "Paranoid Gun Owner.

"

Uh-oh. Looks like a scumslip at face value.

Roden

's defense in 88 does

sort of

make sense though if we assume that they're town and the role they got is easy to guess, especially if the name suggests it.

But not all roles are so obvious. Mine doesn't say the second role my pick has been fused with and, although I do have a guess, I am not certain as to what it is. Which is why the certainty with which

Roden

claimed he knows is worrying.

But,

Roden

's response, instead of saying that, ignores the argument by simply claiming it's an easy miselim (92). I know when I see an easy miselim and this is not it.

Almost50

broke down the argument very well in 122, and I don't think I see 135 as a convincing response. If you're town,

Roden

, it is very easy to get angry at being miselimmed, but it's always best to at least try to present your case.

Almost50

was clear about what he meant. There is some room for this wagon to be incorrect, and that is if either your role is just a blatant mix of two or you're overestimating your, and everyone else's ability to see the fuse. But I think there's quite a decent chance for this to have been a scumslip and it is enough for me to cast my vote.

Please don't elim me

It's nothing personal though!

VOTE: Roden

I think this puts

Roden

at E-2.

[Greeting]

The other wagon is

Nordom

.

I feel like 30 was made by someone who doesn't know the mechanics very well or just forgot. Not to say that I'm an expert either, far from it, but it does seem like a correct thing to do to claim early as Miller. It's more credible this way rather than just throw it before you're potentially investigated by a Cop. In my eyes, this is the strongest indicator of this being town, because it just sounds too genuine to be fabricated.

He has picked up votes from people without any explanation. What seems to stand out is erratic behavior, throwing votes left, right and centre. I guess this can be explained by 79... to a point.

His case on

Ircher

over just 7 posts, in 125 is kinda lazy and ignores the content of

Ircher

's posts including his Ascetic claim. I mean,

Ircher

's posts aren't particularly towny, but shouldn't one just at least wait a while, read up and think about each of them? The way

Nordom

rushed to make this doesn't look good.

I know his post history looks bad, but my gut tells me this is just messy town though who is struggling to keep up to be fair.

This is a very early read though and might change.

[Greeting]

Roden

, in 85 and 92 you implicated

Almost50

as scum. Is it just because he's pushing you and you think that's a fast miselim or is there anything else to it?

[Greeting]

I do like Greeting's two posts regarding the Roden wagon and the read on me, but find it a bit strange that I was a point of interest that required a semi-iso. I suppose in the context of the game I've been a character who's kind of slipped n slid around so perhaps it was warranted.

I was late to the game start and felt like the major wagons that formed were a good starting point for analysis. I didn't take note of people leaving your wagon for elsewhere though. Then, past my analysis, the VC in 175 revealed that there's just

Flea the Magician

left voting you and I was like "oh".

[Greeting]

Roden

, in 85 and 92 you implicated

Almost50

as scum. Is it just because he's pushing you and you think that's a fast miselim or is there anything else to it?

Answered this already.

I don't feel like you have, the only post that seems to elaborate any further that I found was 135, but it seems to just be an extension of what you said before.

[Greeting]

This is unfortunate. Vengesmith really does sound like a combination of Vengeful + Gunsmith, not to mention the description which probably makes it even more obvious.

[Greeting]

I feel bad about voting out

Roden

. I feel like he should have claimed earlier, my gears about his role would have clicked. Sorry,

Roden

.

I wonder why the scums killed

Andante

though. She posted literally nothing and posed a threat to no one. Maybe they just didn't want to give out any information about anyone. Because normally when I play with her she kinda survives until later on in the game.

[Greeting]

As for the rest, I will catch up today afternoon.

[Greeting]

Time to analyse the results of Day 1.

Day 1 Final Vote Count

Roden (7) Toogeloo, Cat Scratch Fever, Ircher,

Greeting

, Radical Rat, Almost50, Enchant <------- [Hammer]

Almost50 (1)

Roden

Nordom (1) Flea the Magician

Toogeloo (1) Nathann

Enchant (1) Galron

Not Voting: (2)

Andante

, Nordom

I’m going to re-do the analysis that I did in one of the past games and what actually resulted in me going after a scum last time. It bases on the assumption that the mafia team will spread their votes amongst the vote tally, having mostly town hammer an innocent townie. The rules state that there are three scums in the setup so that is certain.

This means that there is probably 1-2 scum in this pool: (

Toogeloo, Cat Scratch Fever, Ircher, Radical Rat, Almost50, Enchant

)...

...and probably 1-2 scum in this pool: (

Flea the Magician, Nathann, Galron, Nordom

). I think it's probably easier to focus on the smaller pool of players first to find the (most likely) one scum hiding there.

I have a soft townlean on

Nordom

and I believe

Nathann

's claim. Neither of these reads is very strong though.

The latest posts showed consistency in

Nordom

's erratic behavior and a game-solving attitude so I have reasons to uphold my read from 172.

Nathann

is clearly thinking he had some eureka moment about me, but I won't comment on it unless he decides to share it with everyone. Though, in post 425 he is referring to

Cat Scratch Fever

's (I think) 170 who was unimpressed with the unoriginality of my read on

Roden

. Yeah, I went with the wagon, but because I agreed with the arguments presented. Sadly, I wasn't around past

Roden

's claim which would have made me withdraw. Notably though

Cat Scratch Fever

did not decide to pressure me, but

Nathann

did. Scum have, in my opinion, few reasons to pick this battle with easier potential miselims laying around. So that leaves

Nathann

out of my pool of suspicion for now.

So we have

Galron

and

Flea the Magician

left.

[Greeting]

Galron

I know

Galron

's scum game from Open 838. In that game he went for pocketing me and Scorpious, while refusing to commit to a serious vote for a long time, instead sticking to his RVS vote. His reads were rather waffly on purpose, he attempted to present a gamesolving attitude, but his actions were not aimed at making an impact on the game in any way.

I feel like his tone in this game is different. His gamesolving attitude can be seen by inquiring into the fusions, which are confusing to all, but thing is - scums have no reason to do that, especially in Day 1. Like, 136 would have to be manufactured if

Galron

were scum and I don't think it was. Town has more reasons to understand the game setup well and to use the game thread for it than scum, I feel.

The rest is pretty much null. The

Ircher

push is null, because I think he's like that in every game and gets scumread for it. But that doesn't mean it cannot be a valid reason for

Ircher

to be scumread. This can come from both a town or scum point of view.

Or

Galron

really upped his scumgame and I'm not seeing it.

Flea the Magician

This... is null.

I've looked through Days 1 of

Flea the Magician

's latest scumgame which was Mini Theme 2259 and one of fae's latest town games I found was Mini Theme 2263. She seems to be more waffly in MT 2259, posting a lot of meaningless posts, and same, but including some game moving content in MT 2263.

While looking at her ISO I found this in her very first post:

Those familiar with me can expect less of my usual crap.

Indeed, fae seems less vibrant and lively, but both from fae's town and scum games. I don't see that much a game solving attitude as I do with

Galron

though. It's more of dropping questions and answers to make it seem like fae is doing something without really committing to anything.

Let's do some pressing.

VOTE: Flea the Magician, what's good?

[Greeting]

This means that there is probably 1-2 scum in this pool: (

Toogeloo, Cat Scratch Fever, Ircher, Radical Rat, Almost50, Enchant

)...

...and probably 1-2 scum in this pool: (

Flea the Magician, Nathann, Galron, Nordom

). I think it's probably easier to focus on the smaller pool of players first to find the (most likely) one scum hiding there.

The fuck

How it even works.

It is in mafia's interest to not jump all on one town wagon to not overly implicate themselves in the miselimination of a townie, and in this case that's

Roden

. It is also rather difficult to get all of town to miseliminate a townie and happens quite rarely in my personal experience. They also may not want to generally leave hard clues as to their goals in the votes by spreading them, which paradoxically leads me to drawing conclusions from this type of thinking. Kind of, a reverse psychology thing. Theoretically it might not have happened though. But I believe that is what happened, and it usually is what happens.

Nonetheless, this is logic coming from an assumption - if you disagree with the assumption then the logic is going to make no sense to you. This reasoning has helped me before so I'm reusing it.

[Greeting]

He's making general claims about how scum would usually position themselves around an EoD wagon, but it's not actually being

applied

to this game. He's focusing on the people off-wagon because that pool is

smaller

, not because something about the game made him think it's more likely scum was off-wagon. And this is kind of especially concerning to me when the wagon that resulted in the misyeet was so icky.

What makes you think that general observations of mafia somehow don't apply to this game?

Also, his Galron read is making me question whether we're reading the same game. In what universe is Galron questioning how fusions work actually solving or influencing the game? Why would scum have no reason to question fusions? Where is he showing an impact on this game? Like, to me he doesn't read very different from that Open, so the final verdict of "he's town or upped his scumgame" is not something I'm seeing. Feels kind of like a TMI read.

The Flea read is whatever, the only part that amuses me though is once again implying that Galron has like,

done something

this game.

I guess opinions differ. I read very carefully both ISOs and to me

Galron

does seem different. Like I said, either he's town or he's upped his scumgame.

And because nobody wants to play the guessing game with me - Greeting was the only one to comment on the nightkill and what it could mean. I find that's usually something that comes from scum, since they're the ones that had just spent the night planning the nightkill after all.

¿¿¿¿¿?????

I have commented on night kills before frequently and I'm yet to roll scum on MafiaScum.

The night kill choices are relevant and important as they often reveal who was the biggest threat to town. In this case, the scums in my opinion clearly did not want to reveal information by killing

Andante

. Why do you think that me wanting to figure out the purpose of the nightkill makes me scum?

[Greeting]

Almost like I'm on a manic downer after recent bullshit in life and on site...

I'm sorry to hear that. Who do you think should be the major suspect right now?

[Greeting]

VOTE: Greeting

I support Nathann case. I also didn't like Greeting trying to wash their hands of the Elim by stating they would have unvoted if here after claim. That rubbed me the wrong way.

I didn't wash my hands off the kill. I simply regretted the fact that it happened and that I participated in it.

[Greeting]

Yeah, I went with the wagon, but because I agreed with the arguments presented. Sadly, I wasn't around past Roden's claim which would have made me withdraw.

Why would you have withdrawn? What did the claim change about the arguments you say you agreed with?

Let me just say that I had a very good reason to believe the Vengeful + Gunsmith claim from

Roden

, but I saw it past hammer.

[Greeting]

There's no need to soft so loudly. You could have left that part out.

Did you mean sort?

[Greeting]

That's not how that works. If you want to claim a vague general principle applies to this game, you need to actually give proof why it does.

I could say that scum are likely to post less than town is. So would I be able to pull up the Activity overview, list the bottom three names on it, and conclude that's the scumteam? No, I'd have to give some reasoning on why I think it's likely this game has extremely low scum activity.

Actually, no, I don't. I am free to scumhunt however I like. And I'm at liberty to use a method that has worked for me in the past.

And, like I said, that wagon was horrible, so the fact that you're using that "general principle" to avoid looking at it is, uh, sketchy.

It wasn't horrible. It was regrettable, that's for sure, but

Almost50

had decent and logical reasoning for it. Unfortunately, it was

Roden

who was telling the truth and it's the fault of everyone who was on their wagon for not believing, including myself.

I think you mentioning the nightkill is somewhat +scum. And the fact that you mentioned it, and then did not do anything with that information, is +++scum.

I think you either haven't read or have forgotten what I said in 388. In case of either, I think that there is nothing more I can do with that information.

[Greeting]

Anyway, back to more relevant stuff:

As for the

Ircher

wagon, tbh his ISO doesn't look too great. I didn't like and totally don't agree with his game solve from 171. I took it with a pinch of salt at the time and kinda ignored it. I have an issue with that though, namely I'm unsure if that isn't simply how he normally plays mafia. I'll need to check his game history before considering jumping on this wagon.

I am sorry for your bad mood,

Flea

, and sorry for the abuse that was aimed at you. I try to respect your pronouns too, sometimes unfortunately I forget. That doesn't, however, mean that you can't have gotten a red PM in this game.

I'm sorry to hear that. Who do you think should be the major suspect right now?

I'm assuming that's me given your vote. What makes me your prime suspect now?

[Greeting]

Are Greeting alt?

No, I'm not and I don't have one. Why do people keep asking me this?

[Greeting]

Sure, I cannot stop you. I can call you out for looking scummy as heck, though.

And there were no alignment-conclusions on anyone from your NKA, so I don't really consider that

doing

something with the information.

Fair enough, I think the discussion reached its endpoint then.

[Greeting]

The claims of both

Nathann

and

Enchant

are very specific and both came early in the game. However, given that this is an experimental game, I think that makes both of these claims credible and I find no real reason not to believe either.

This will be my last post in a row. Sorry for that.

[Greeting]

Even if you had reason to believe the claim was true, that doesn't make Roden town...?

Wait, I missed this post. This is actually true and I must admit that I didn't consider that perspective as my instincts led me to believe that it must be a town role. I'd like to not elaborate on this further for now though.

[Greeting]

All of the above have already been answered.
Do not belittle me.

I am well aware that bullshit around me currently does not prevent a red pm, nor does you mishandling of my pronouns which I was more subtle about.

The attempt to use the last two games as solid definitions of meets ignoring that both had extenuating circumstances is misrepresentation and creating a false narrative, the post weird above is continuing this attempt to misrepresent with the implication my dismissal of your crap case is little more than correction of my pronouns.

You and Nordom currently. I'm mobile so unable to takes as much of an in depth look at Nordom.

Okay, so it's an OMGUS vote. Thought as much.

I don't feel like pushing the issue of your pronouns further actually. I apologised and said that I'll do better. If you continue to take my vote and my post personally because of that then I can't really help it. My vote stays, hopefully you'll soon actually prove to everyone, including myself that I was belittling you (as in, underestimating your contributions to the game and not of you as a player or person), because I don't feel that I am.

S/meets/meta

If this post was for me then I have no idea what you mean by it.

[Greeting]

I don't feel like pushing the issue of your pronouns further actually. I apologised and said that I'll do better. If you continue to take my vote and my post personally because of that then I can't really help it. My vote stays, hopefully you'll soon actually prove to everyone, including myself that I was belittling you (as in, underestimating your contributions to the game and not of you as a player or person), because I don't feel that I am

I think fae is actually scumreading you for exactly what you're written here in this post.

And I think faer "case" on me just boils down to being upset about me wanting to press her. Which doesn't make me want to stop pressing fae. I am getting a bit more sceptical of the results though, because if faer is in a bad mental health state then faer will just throw passive aggressive blows left and right prompted by perceived misconduct of other players and we'll get nothing AI out from it.

Still, I don't treat this behavior as a valid excuse for anything. If I see a more convincing case to jump on or to press then I'll move.

[Greeting]

I genuinely think that scum are afraid to push on me because they know how vocal I've been and a push on me will go nowhere. It's interesting that most of the town reads to come my way have this element of "Town-lean" or "Maybe town" and not an outright solid town read. Greeting's read comes to mind.

I've just been tracking your behavior and judged it as more likely coming from town than scum. Is there anything in my read about you that you think is wrong?

[Greeting]

Sorry, guys. I'm leaving the site because of nonsense matters. I'll shortly be replaced. I enjoyed playing with you guys and the "fusion u-pick" setup was a great idea. gg and godspeed.

[Greeting]

Since

Toogeloo

is conftown, I think my elimination would give town an advantage at this point. I will half claim - my pick got fused with Vengeful. Therefore, in order for my role to work, I must get miseliminated by town. That is also why I would have believed

Roden

's claim.

Jump on.

VOTE: Greeting

[Greeting]

Let me clarify: At best, town will get a scum. At worst, town will have at least one confirmed townie Day 3. I can make it happen with my role. If I do nothing then the only confirmed townie will probably get killed off Night 2.

[Greeting]

Greeting, you should unvote now and then be the hammer.

I dont think that it makes any difference but okay.

UNVOTE:

[Greeting]

I guess they

could

be scum venge that wanted to get limmed, but if that were the case, they would've claimed earlier, right?

It doesn’t make any sense for me to be scum and ask to be limmed, given that is the primary mode for town to remove scum.

I wouldn’t have done it if I didn’t think it was better for town.

[Greeting]

Greeting, are you going to announce your target? If you hit town, how will we know who the inno is?

No, I’m not. And you will know because it will be revealed.

[Greeting]

I think this is probably a bad idea as opposed to just eliminating scum, but now that the claim is out there we don't really have a choice so....

VOTE: Greeting

Was this hammer?

[Greeting]

No, I unvoted. Don't hammer yourself if you're town...

My role doesn’t work otherwise. If I get NK’d then it’s completely wasted.

In this gamestate we have a confirmed townie, who is the scum’s most likely target for NK.

My role will allow me to make someone else a confirmed townie or confirmed scum. It makes sense if I’m very certain about someone and I actually do hit scum, but otherwise not only do I kill myself (and I’m town-aligned), but I just create an easy target for a mafia NK (the mafia don’t want to narrow down the suspect pool). Which is why this is the most correct way to go today. If my pick is wrong, worst case scenario only one confirmed townie dies tonight.

VOTE: Greeting

[Greeting]

Anyway, I hope for the best. See y’all in the postgame.

[Greeting]

Can you atleast SAY what you will do?

I am a Cop who was probably fused with Vengeful (works past being miseliminated). Past my death a player of my choice will be revealed. If I didn’t pick someone it would be a player who hammered me.

[Greeting]

Oh.

[Greeting]

Thank you for the game! Admittedly, I was disappointed at being fused with Vengeful, but I had no influence over that. The roles were very creative though.