mini 814: OVER!

[Tarballs]

Hi, I'll be replacing Claramata. Took a quick glance at the thread and will post some thoughts later.

If I understood post #2 correctly, there's supposed to be a circle that shows who's everyone's "neighbour" is, but I can't see it. Unless it's this:

MonkeyMan576 (1): Spinach
Droideka_11 (1): Henrz
ODDin (0):
Spinach (2): MonkeyMan576, Starbuck
DOESnotWANT (0):
Locke Lamora (0):
Claramata (0):
Henrz (0):
Starbuck (3): Droideka_11, ODDin, DOESnotWANT

So, is it that?

[Tarballs]

What is your opinions on the random voting stage?

It gets the game going. Random questions are better, though.

Why did you pick this game in particular?

I just got killed in another game and am modding a similar game as this, so the timing seemed fitting.

Who do you expect to be the first person to be lynched this game, and why?

Easier to say who it's

not

going to be. Locke Lamora and DOESnotWANT are very likely to survive this day, I believe, based on their pro-town way of playing.

Who do you want to be lynched first this game, and why?

No idea yet.

And by the way, you didnt answer those questions yourself. Now that everyone else has answered, it's your turn.


And wow, is this game really stalling. ODDin, MonkeyMan and DnW haven't posted for almost a week. Where are you?

Tarballs: what is your opinion of your neighbours?

Just you and Hernz, or everyone? A player-by-player analysis seems rather useless this early on. No one's really standing out yet, in neither a good or a bad way... I guess that's also the reason the game has stalled. It feels like we're still in the random voting stage.

[Tarballs]

Weird how you say LL and DNW are pro-town, then say nobody stands out yet.
If you mean something else, feel free to correct me.

Good point, but I meant their general pro-towniness; something that occurs every game. I've read a game or two with LL in them, and he seemed to act in a very pro-town way right from the beginning, and I'm seeing it happening here as well. If someone always acts pro-town, I see it as kind of a null tell, so that doesn't stand out. I haven't seen any others of you before, but DnW is apparently an alt of Thestatusquo, whose games I have seen and recall her to be same kind of a player as LL.

I did send a PM to myk because I feel that voting for yourself is against the spirit of the game.

I would agree that it is, but we still seem to be in the random voting stage, and there's nothing wrong in selfvoting during the RVS. It's a random vote, you might as well throw it at yourself.

However! Making a random vote, and not just any vote but a selfvote, 4 pages into the game doesn't help us progress, so therefore he is obviously stalling the game on purpose. On the other hand, this will cause people to vote him for that anti-town play, which quite possibly will help us leave the RVS behind. He wants us to vote him, so that's exactly what I'm going to do

Vote: Henrz

[Tarballs]

Ok, this is how I see it: Henrz selfvoted to get reactions that would get us out of the RVS for good. Selfvoting is never pro-town in itself, but it's not always anti-town, either. And there's also a difference between anti-town and scummy. Scummy is almost always anti-town, but anti-town isn't always scummy.

I can't see how scum would be more likely to selfvote than townies. It's fairly obvious that Hernz's selfvote was nowhere near a serious vote. I think Starbuck and especially MM are pushing a bit too hard here.

Also, look at this inconsistency between posts #106 and #108:

If you want to defend self voting as a valid tactic, that's fine. I don't. I think it's anti town.

Not necessarily so much scummy

, but definately anti town. There's better things we could be doing that will bring better results.

Lynching

scummy self-voters

.

Unvote, Vote: MonkeyMan576

Mod: Votecount? And how about prodding/replacing DOESnotWANT?

[Tarballs]

What has it done to the game other than having us all fight about whether self-voting is wrong?

So you think that debating about whether or not self-voting is wrong is bad? I think it's exactly the opposite - it got the discussion going and we got out of the RVS for good. And most importantly, everyone reacted to Hernz's selfvote in different ways, which is also very informative. Take this, for example:

And the response to the Random vote... Doesn't really help...

Unvote Vote: Henrz

. Discuss.

...

I don't think that's a particularly great reaction, because it looks like Droideka wanted to wait for everyone else to comment on that first, before saying anything himself. He doesn't comment the selfvote at all, until Hernz explains why he did it. Then we get this:

I think Henrz explanation for voting for himself was satisfactory. This looks like a blatant bandwagon to me.

So, why didn't you comment on the selfvote before Hernz explained it? If you were just waiting for an explanation, why was that?

[Tarballs]

Um... That was the hammer right there. And we didn't even get a claim. Or the replacer's thoughts.

[Tarballs]

The end of last day really was interesting, to say the least. MonkeyMan was my top suspect, but after that hammer and Starbuck flipping scum, I don't see him getting lynched in near future. I'll still keep my eye on him, though.

Is everyone up for lynching Monkey tomorrow (depending on if Starbuck is scum or not)?

I don't quite understand what the meaning of this question was. Were you willing to just go and speedlynch MonkeyMan if Starbuck had flipped town?

It's just crap. I was asked to give my suspicions. I've had a notepad document going because I prefer big analysis posts rather than the 5 billion posts people make when doing analysis. I was going to finish it up when I got home and post it. I was getting ready to and noticed I was hammered. No wait, no nothing. I really was looking forward to this game, thank you all for ruining it based on the fact that I hate self-voting rather than anything scummy.

I know. I've also had a fairly large post in the works in my notes section, but

all that work is now in vain

. It's very frustrating.

How is it in vain? It's never too late to post your thoughts, or at least some of them, even if Starbuck was quickhammered. Well, unless you were about to defend her.

Good to see we were spot on with Starbuck.

There he goes again, tapping himself in the back.

Considering the behind-the-scenes PMs, I don't think we should have dead people replacing in.

Yeah, agreed. And dead people shouldn't even post in the thread, or that's what rule #15 says anyway.

Mod: Could we have some info on who replaced who on the first post? Otherwise it will get really confusing, if there are more replacements.

[Tarballs]

Is everyone up for lynching Monkey tomorrow (depending on if Starbuck is scum or not)?

I don't quite understand what the meaning of this question was. Were you willing to just go and speedlynch MonkeyMan if Starbuck had flipped town?

That question is still without an answer.

Also, while we're on the topic of Tarballs, I realized something.
I realized that (from the nightkill) the mafia have another goal in this game: to hamper communication.
Then I looked at the nightkill. They were obviously trying to isolate someone, and they could do it in two ways:
a) Kill Droid and isolate Monkey. (the outcome)
b) Kill Tarballs and isolate Hernz.

So I have a question: Why was option a chosen over option b? Could Tarballs be scum, rendering option b impossible? I know it seems... far-fetched, but I'd just like to throw it out there while we're talking about him.

Trying to guess why the scum killed who they killed, when there is no obvious reason, is almost never a good idea. And if the mafia really wanted to isolate someone, they could've just flipped a coin between me and Droideka. Or something. Anyhow, the fact that I wasn't killed doesn't prove anything here.

spinach - i think that's an interesting theory, hadn't thought of it from that angle,

but isn't that assuming that communication is important to playing this game, it hasn't added anything new for me at the stage of the game, could be just me though.

Yeah, I had thought of it as useless until Starbuck died, then I realized we could have an all-silencer mafia.

How do you even know what a Silencer does? How would it make this different if there were two Silencers instead of just one? And it also seems like you knew that a Silencer exists before Starbuck even flipped... which should be impossible, if you're town.

Vote: Spinach

[Tarballs]

Oops, sorry, In answer. Kinda yes... But, I was meaning like after his defence, not before, and even then maybe not, but yeah, I kinda was. Bus NOT a speedlynch.

That's a horribly wishy-washy answer.

Did you fail to read that last sentence? I've bolded it for your reading convenience. I said that I just wanted to throw it out there, and that I knew it was far-fetched, and that it probably meant next to nothing.

I did read the last sentence. It's just that you admitted yourself that it was far-fetched, and that it "probably means next to nothing", yet you still felt the need of pointing it out.


And is it just me, or is this game starting to slow down again?

Mod: I'm requesting that you prod ODDin, who hasn't posted for almost a week now.

[Tarballs]

Ugh... Yeah, nothing is happening here. I'm on a 4-week vacation now, so I should have more time. Hopefully this game starts to pick up some pace.

You still haven't responded to Fluffy and LL.

They're voting for me because I wasn't on the Starbuck wagon yesterday, which is something that I can't change anymore. And they didn't even ask anything that I could've answered to.

To be honest, I wasn't following Locke on the Tarballs vote, I just sat down to try and analyse who could be scum partner objectively - ie. based on voting patterns, which is based on the information we got from day 1 in light of the outcome of the lynch and nightkill, I didn't even realise Locke had voted Tarballs until I posted and then read his post.

That's one of the main reasons why people get hammered accidentally. You should

always

look what everyone else is doing before you vote, even if you don't want their decisions to affect yours.

I haven't really used day talking at all.. how do you guys think it should be used?

Here are some hypothetical examples:

You're a tracker, and you tracked your neighbor last night. You found out that they visited no one. In a one-scum game, which we assume we're in right now, that should mean that your target cannot have killed anyone last night. Therefore, he/she must be town, so you could use your day-talking abilities to claim privately to your neighbor, which could make him trust you more.

A confirmed cop has publicly claimed that he has investigated player X, and found out that X is town. Now, both of X's neighbors could claim to X by using their daytalking ability.

[Tarballs]

Here's a question for both of you: if one of your neighbours came to you and told you they had a role and what it was, would you believe them? Would you tell them what your role was?

I pretty surely would not outright claim to them, no matter what. And whether I would believe their claim or not is rather impossible to say.

And I'm thirding the request for a massprod. There's some serious lurking going on here.

[Tarballs]

Why do you have both ODDin and Spinach as neutral?

You could actually give reasons to all of your reads, not just the neutral ones.

Hernz:

Are you still here?

ODDin:

Who do you think is scum?

[Tarballs]

I'm not voting Spinach because that'll put him at L-1, if I'm not mistaken (4 to lynch, Locke and Tarballs are both voting him).

After what happened yesterday, I'd say that's somewhat understandable. But why don't you want to put someone on L-1? If you're suspicious about someone, you shouldn't be afraid to vote.

2) This has been brought up by Locke and Fluffy, and they voted Tarballs. He then follows to gently push against Tarballs himself, in a somewhat wishy-washy manner. He's raising a suspicion, and then saying it's probably nothing. It's a classical way to attempt a win-win. When Tarballs questions him, he just says it's nothing, thus not warranting an answer - he didn't really accuse him. However, it did its job in solidifying Fluffy's opinion on Tarballs, which means it's hardly nothing. So, I think Spinach thought it was either him or Tarballs, and attempted to make sure it's gonna be Tarballs.

What do you mean I thought it was either me or tarballs? How could one make that assumption so early in the day? And it could easily be someone besdies me or tarballs for the lynch today. And the only reason I didn't vote because it would be a) Bandwagoning and b) Put Tarballs at L-1.

The same applies here. And bandwagoning isn't automatically a bad thing.

Starbuck was a silencer, so it means that since one of the mafia role's goal was to hamper communication, then wouldn't the goal of the whole mafia be the same thing?

Not necessarily. I think they can choose themselves how they want to approach the game and how to best utilize their roles. And we don't know what the remaining scum's role is.

[Tarballs]

I'm not voting Spinach because that'll put him at L-1, if I'm not mistaken (4 to lynch, Locke and Tarballs are both voting him).

After what happened yesterday, I'd say that's somewhat understandable. But why don't you want to put someone on L-1? If you're suspicious about someone, you shouldn't be afraid to vote.

I don't want to allow the scum to hammer quickly, in case Spinach isn't actually scum. I see no point in taking this risk where nothing can be gained.

Would it really be that bad if scum quickhammered? They're not going to win the game right here by doing that, and then we'd just lynch them tomorrow. If anything, I'd be very happy if scum decided to quickhammer. If this was lylo, your careful approach would be understandable, but we're not anywhere close to it.

[Tarballs]

KittyMo, are you giving up already?

And if I've understood correctly, the deadline is on Monday, which is 3 days from now. Luckily it says in the rules that a lynch will happen even if there is no majority at the deadline, but I'd still like to hear everyone's opinions so that you don't get a cheap excuse for tomorrow in case we fail to lynch the last scum off today.

[Tarballs]

He replaced Claramata, whose only post contained an oddly phrased statement. (#3)

But, other than that, I can't really find anything he does scummy. This statement seems off, though:

Good to see we were spot on with Starbuck.

There he goes again, tapping himself in the back.

But, that was apparently a joke, so I'm not too worried.

Read: Neutral (but if I had to go either way, I'd go slight town)

Previously you said you had a slight scum read on me, but now you're not seeing anything odd about my play except that "apparent joke". So what made you change your mind?

And I didn't mean that comment as a joke. I recalled someone called out Locke on day 1 for him patting himself in the back, then saw him do that again at start of day 2. I don't know if it meant that much, but I felt it wouldn't hurt to point it out.

perhaps he hasn't seen your meta?

I believe I already told how Locke seems pro-town in every game and is therefore very difficult to get a read on. And the game that you posted isn't that great of an example, since Locke replaced in so late in the game and didn't get to say very much.

[Tarballs]

I don't see why you see it as him patting himself on the back. Wasn't he patting everyone on the back who found Starbuck scummy...? Or am I totally missing something?

Yes, you are correct, but that everyone also included himself.

You're right. I could've sworn it was someone else that said Locke always seems to be protown, but now that I think about it, it actually was you. I'm really sorry. :/ Disregard that part?

That wasn't even such a big deal.

[Tarballs]

Now that's what I'd call a slip.

Looks like a lot of stuff happened here today. Sorry that I didn't get to answer to Spinach's case before deadline, but I'll do that at the start of Day 3, assuming I'm still around to be able to do that.

[Tarballs]

After Locke flipped tracker, I tried to look for a breadcrumb that he might have left about his result from night 1. I didn't find anything too obvious, but this is the best I managed to find:

As bad as that Monkey hammer was, I don't think he's scum. Scum hammering their partner without even giving them a chance to claim on D1 is ridiculous. I think it's just awful town play.

Locke's first post of day 2. He's not completely clearing Monkey, which he shouldn't have even done, as that would've been suspicious, but this makes me think he tracked Monkey and found out that Monkey didn't visit Droideka. Then again, it's possible that the last scum is a blocker who blocked Locke night 1, in which case there would be no report to breadcrumb.

I'll answer to Spinach's case against me once I have enough time for it, although his whole case against me just seemed like desperate scum trying to save themselves when I first read it, so that actually made me more confident that Spinach would be the last scum.

[Tarballs]

KittyMo, Hernz, Fluffy:

What do you think of ODDin's slip at the end of the last day?

[Tarballs]

I don't think it comes from his power role info. Clearin Monkey was pretty obvious after his hammer on Starbuck D1, and I think this was mostly his reasoning for that. He wasn't the only one saying that, either (I know I said so too).

That's very true. But it's still possible that Monkey just wanted to hop on the wagon to make himself look more town and didn't realize that there were already too many votes on Starbuck. I don't know if Locke would really be that "certain" that Monkey must be town. I'm also thinking: If I was Locke the tracker, who would I track night 1? Would he have tracked me or Spinach more likely than Monkey? Maybe I'm overthinking this now

I'll answer to Spinach's case against me once I have enough time for it,

although his whole case against me just seemed like desperate scum trying to save themselves when I first read it, so that actually made me more confident that Spinach would be the last scum.

What's your point in stating this? It seems like you're defending yourself against arguments which aren't there.

The arguments were there when I read them. After reading through his case, I then noticed that he had been hammered and that he still claimed to be town, so that made me think "Okay, I guess he wasn't the last scum after all". But my initial thought was that he was desperate.

Tarballs: And what do

you

think of my "slip"?

I believe that scum would do that error more likely than a townie, so I see it as a scumslip. But as I was rereading the thread during night 2, I didn't find much evidence to support my theory that you would be the last scum. Actually, aside from Locke, you were probably the most pro-town looking person until that slip.

Also, what are your opinions on the other players? Who are your top suspects today?

This really would be an excellent time for a player-by-player analysis, as there are so few people left, and I'll need to do that as well. Hopefully by the end of this week.

For now, I'd say that my biggest suspect is probably Fluffy. We didn't get to hear much of her thoughts during day 1 and she kinda gets a free pass with the Starbuck case, because she replaced in so late into day 1. We didn't really hear DnW's opinions about Starbuck either, only in the very beginning of the game, so that makes this a bit difficult. It's always difficult when you have to take two or more players in a player slot into consideration. It's also a bit unfair for the replacer, I think. But I need to read the thread again a couple of times and collect my thoughts before I can really say who's the top suspect.

[Tarballs]

Ok, here's my answers to Spinach's case.

Claramata, the former Tarballs, makes an oddly worded response and then disappears. Scum points for Tarballs.

I can't defend someone else's actions, but since we're in the same player slot, that's a somewhat understandable accusation.

Tarballs responds to questions. It is

VERY

odd Tarballs would even think of saying someone is town right off of the bat, and then says nobody stands out, and a contradiction on top of it.

I didn't say that someone is town. I said that Locke always seems pro-town, so it doesn't stand out to me that he appears pro-town in this game as well.

He then asks for clarifacation on a fairly obvious comment. Yay for filler text? >_> + scum points for Tarballs.

It wasn't that obvious to me. It's not mentioned anywhere that Locke and Henrz are my

neighbors

- just that I can daytalk with them. Also, it seemed odd that Locke asked my opinion about just him and Henrz, instead of everyone.

Tarballs explains his earlier contradiction, but still, acting pro-town and being town

are practically the same thing

I disagree.

Then Tarballs makes a flawed vote on hernz. Please look at the bolded parts, woot contradictions, + Scum points for reasons explained.

Ok, let's see now. This is what I said, bolded parts by Spinach, red- and orange-colored parts by me:

However! Making a random vote, and not just any vote but a selfvote, 4 pages into the game

doesn't help us progress, so therefore he is obviously stalling the game on purpose

.

On the other hand

,

this will cause people to vote him for that anti-town play,

which quite possibly will help us leave the RVS behind

. He wants us to vote him, so that's exactly what I'm going to do

If you're able to understand the red-colored part, you'll clearly see that there is no contradiction in there.

Um, no, you didn't see it like that. You said Hernz was stalling and doesn't help us progress. Infact, this whole post contradicts with his last post. He then points out a contradiction with Monkey and votes him. + Scum points for Tarballs. He's the king of contradictions by now...

See the answer above. And you clearly didn't understand why I really voted for Henrz. Reasonings for my vote are in orange color.

Tarball's first post on D2, indicating that monkey is suddenly town because he hammers, meaning he is out of suspects.

Can't understand how you got that impression. I even said that I'm "still keeping my eye on him", so how am I indicating that Monkey has to be town?

I make a post agaist tarballs, but suddenly, he cares about my post! But not about LL's, or Fluffy. And the fact that you weren't killed DOES prove something here, and asking how I know what a silencer does is like asking how I know what a doctor does. It's pretty self-explanatory. He then thinks I knew a silencer existed before starbuck flipped.. yet fails to bring up any evidance from D1. To me, it seems like Tarballs, the scum, was out of targets and decided to pick up on me for flawed reasons. + scum points for Tarballs.

You made a scummy comment about the scum nightkill, trying to make me look like scum because Droideka was killed instead of me. And I didn't like that talk about Mafia Silencer either. Those two things really jumped out from your post, that's why you got my attention.

Oh, so Tarballs has something to hide? Interesting. + scum points for Tarballs.

Do I even need to answer this?

Tarballs shows that he wants me lynched fast, very scummy.

Once again, I fail to see where you got that impression from.

He then points out that bandwagoning isn't bad, also scummy.

What I said was that bandwagoning isn't

automatically

a bad thing. And I fail to see what is scummy about that.

He then hints that the reaming scum may have a role. Interesting...

I'd be surprised if there were

any

players here without a role.

This post just confuses me. The last part. . .It's directed at me, right?

It's a bit late to answer this now, but: It was directed to everyone, also including you.

Wondering why Tarballs is asking what makes him town.. that doesn't make sense for a townie to ask.

So you'd rather have a person saying "This person is town, that person is town, they are town, those are town too, that there is scum, but I won't say why" around, then? No matter what you think people's alignment is, you should give reasons

why

you think they are town/scum. Otherwise I will assume that you somehow

know

they are town/scum, which kinda makes you scum.

[Tarballs]

Game is stalling... again. Hopefully this post will help.

First, to clarify my opinion about ODDin's slip at the end of day 2: As he hammered Spinach, he was talking about the next day, when the normal thing to say would've been "hopefully this will end the game" or something along those lines. That's really the main reason why it seemed scummy.

After reading everyone in isolation, here are my opinions about the remaining players in the game. First off, DnW/Fluffy. DnW was attacking Starbuck really aggressively at the start of the game, which could've been early distancing, but it seemed like genuine scumhunting to me. DnW then disappeared after about 3 real-life days into the game. Two weeks later Fluffy replaces in and only manages to do one post during day 1, and even that was after the hammer. Fluffy never contributed very much, so it's difficult to judge her play. Lurking isn't pro-town, though, that's for sure.

Henrz is the one who I believe to be town the most. He has been making some good points throughout the game and I especially like his analyses of Locke and MonkeyMan/KittyMo on day 2. Just too bad he never made any analyses about the other players, so how about doing it now?

ODDin has been scumhunting actively and I don't really have any other problems with him except for that slip.

Next up is MonkeyMan/KittyMo. You can read my case on MonkeyMan from day 1, so I don't think I need to add anything there. After replacing in, KittyMo analyses every player, which is a good way to start.

Hernz:

Uhh? Random Vote? Vote: Droid.

This seems awkward.

Spinach:

>:( I find it delicious.

Vote: MonkeyMan576

I hate monkeys

OMGUS random vote? :/

Using random votes to help make your case on players isn't a very good idea in my opinion, as some people tend to make scummy random votes on purpose to get the discussion going.

During day 2:

My top 2 for scum would be Spinach and Henrz, I think. I'd be willing to lynch either one.

During day 3:

Today, I'm drawn to Tarballs, because Spinach wanted us to look at him, and Fluffy, because of his and his predeccessors' interactions with Starbuck.

Why are you not suspicious on Henrz anymore? Why weren't you suspicious of Fluffy yesterday? Also, going after people just because flipped townies told you to is not a good idea. This should be about your own personal opinions, not others'.

perhaps he hasn't seen your meta?

I believe I already told how Locke seems pro-town in every game and is therefore very difficult to get a read on. And the game that you posted isn't that great of an example, since Locke replaced in so late in the game and didn't get to say very much.

You're right. I could've sworn it was someone else that said Locke always seems to be protown, but now that I think about it, it actually was you. I'm really sorry. :/ Disregard that part?

Why so apologetic?

After Locke flipped tracker, I tried to look for a breadcrumb that he might have left about his result from night 1.

Smart thinking! Never occured to me to look for that.

That really seems like buddying.

Mini Case on Fluffy:

Conveniently, that comes right after ODDin and me already declared Fluffy as our top suspect.


Here's everyone in order from scummiest to towniest:
KittyMo
Fluffy
ODDin
Henrz

Vote: KittyMo

[Tarballs]

Yes, but Hernz and MonkeyMan do not play the game like "some people" do. Also, what is the point of random voting, in your eyes, since anyone who tries to use evidence from the RVS is scummy, according to you?

The point of RVS is to start the discussion. People use different kind of excuses for their random votes, people react to some random votes in different ways, etc. After that, random votes no longer have any meaning. I think referring to them, or using them as "evidence" against other people on day 2 and after is completely useless. I wouldn't necessarily say scummy, but useless.

Ummm, I WAS suspicious of Fluffy yesterday. I said she was neutral/slight scum yesterday, and I was the one who said YESTERDAY that I had my eye on Fluffy right before the deadline. Then you and ODDin said you found Fluffy suspicious too. So, accusing *me* of following seems ridiculous.

I never said I was going to lynch you or something just because Spinach told me to. I just am going to take an extra glance at you.

I have to admit those are good answers, although Spinach asked everyone to

lynch

me, not

look

at me.

Either way,

Unvote

at this point. Need to hear more from MiteyMouse and especially Henrz. I really wouldn't like to have any more replacements.

I'd like to just say this loud and clear: MonkeyMan as a townie ALWAYS looks scummy as hell. I saw another game with him in it a few days ago, and that's the conclusion I have drawn about his meta. I've never seen him play scum, though.

Monkey having a certain town meta isn't that helpful, if we have no idea how he plays as scum. And obviously no one should get a free pass just because they're always scummy.

Also, Tarballs:

Here you state that you thought that Locke breadcrumbed that Monkey did not visit Droideka. What changed your mind since then?

I never even said that I 100% believed it to be a breadcrumb. It could be a fatal mistake to blindly assume that it was one.

Okay then.

1) I like Tarballs' reply to Spinach's accusations. One thing still remains, and that is this issue:

Yes, there is "on the other hand" there. However, the phrase is essentially "X, but on the other hand, NOT X", from a logical standpoint. The way I see it, there are several options:
a) You were completely clueless as to what the effect of Henrz's act may be. It seemed equally reasonable to you that it would stall the game and that it would quite possibly get the game out of the RVS stage and create more discussion. If this were the case, however, it wouldn't make sense for you to vote based on it, and later claim this to be your opinion. If you had no idea how the thing would unfold, you shouldn't have voted on it.
b) You thought that Henrz TRIED to stall the game, but, in your opinion, his act was doomed to fail because it would in fact stir discussion and get the game out of the RVS. If this were the case, it means you actually believed Henrz was scum - perhaps poor scum, but scum. Then you should've voted for him.
c) You believed the act would, in fact, stir discussion, and believed that this was, in fact, Henrz's aim. Then saying he was trying to stall the game doesn't make any sense.
d) You're scum, and you just said all possible options, hoping that no matter how it would turn out, you end up on the winning side.

I'd say that closest to the correct answer is C. My thought process was that Hernz's selfvote could objectively be seen as stalling the game, but I assumed it would in fact do the opposite, as some people would surely go berserk about the fact that he selfvoted.

Talking about an ongoing game isn't a very good idea, by the way. Even if you've been killed in it, you still shouldn't talk about it until the whole game is finished.

Also, the lack of a post from Tarballs is interesting, since I saw his name pop up in Who is Online, and now it is no longer there.

I was writing this post, tried posting it, but the site didn't let me to. Went away for about an hour, now returned to see if it's working.

[Tarballs]

I don't think anyone but you thought that Henrz was attempting to stall the game, or that his actions would stall the game. He himself stated the exact opposite several times. People either agreed with him, or accused him because of self-voting, not because they thought his actions will stall the game. So, I really can't see how you could think that his actions can be seen as an attempt to stall the game.

My first impression was that he was stalling the game, then I thought about it for a while and realized that he just wanted attention to himself, which would then help us all get the discussion going.

I mean, really, in what scenario would his self-vote stall the game?

The game had already stalled when he made his self-voting post. It added no content to the game, and it wasn't scumhunting either, so therefore it can be seen as further stalling of the game.


We really need Henrz here

badly

. With the search function not working, it's impossible to say if he's lurking of if he's disappeared from the site completely, but I think it's the latter one.

[Tarballs]

Hi. Who is scum?

[Tarballs]

Eh, I don't like spamming so one time should be sufficient. Besides, I can see if he's read my prod or not. That should already tell us whether he's lurking or completely disappeared again.

[Tarballs]

Great, we have a new and (seemingly) active player. Looking forward for more analysis from you.

The only problem I see with the case against MonkeyMan/KittyMo is this:

As bad as that Monkey hammer was, I don't think he's scum. Scum hammering their partner without even giving them a chance to claim on D1 is ridiculous. I think it's just awful town play.

With Locke eventually flipping tracker, I can't help but think that he likely tracked Monkey on night 1. Your thoughts on that?

[Tarballs]

As I already explained, I'm not going to blindly assume that Locke tracked Monkey/Kitty. I just figured it was the most likely option.

[Tarballs]

Sanjay prodded me. Apologies, it's been a difficult week for me, but I'll make a proper post later today.

[Tarballs]

Tarballs seemed to think KittyMo was tracked and he somehow put that aside when voting for her. That seemed strange to me.

I wanted to know whether he just ignored his opinion on the tracking or if he had come up with an alternative idea of what happened.

Because if you can't explain how Locke might have tracked someone besides Monkey, it seems like a mistake to vote for KittyMo.

I voted KittyMo because she seemed the scummiest. I still haven't completely decided my stance about whether she was tracked or not. I do say that I believe her to be the likeliest to have been tracked, but as long as there's no 100% certainty about it, I won't put too much trust in it. The only person alive who pretty clearly was not tracked is me. Everyone else is/was a possible target. Also, Locke might not have tracked the most obvious suspect, if he figured that person would end up lynched at some point anyway.

In any case, I'm not that convinced that KittyMo should be today's lynch anymore. One mislynch can still be afforded, so I guess it wouldn't hurt to keep her in case she really was tracked. She is still the scummiest, but very close behind is MiteyMouse, whose player slot really hasn't contributed much in the entire game. DnW was around for a few days, but she still managed to be the pro-towniest of all three. Fluffy and MiteyMouse have both been actively lurking, and lately we've seen some posts from MiteyMouse that just don't make any sense.

Oh Kitty...do we really want no one to vote further? Henrz is not responding despite the prods and stuff. I'm trying not to be frustrated with it but, it is getting to me.

You're either really impatient, or trigger happy. Either way, lynching someone without even giving him a chance to claim is not a pro-town move in any kind of way.

Kitty....are you Scum?

I have more to this but, want her to answer this first.

Really can't see the point of that post unless you're hoping that she admits scum, so that you won't need to bother with more analysis. I'm pretty sure you knew what she was going to answer, so your question was totally useless and it just seemed like a filler post.

Vote: MiteyMouse

That's L-1 and hopefully a wake-up call as well.

[Tarballs]

I have a question for ODDin and Tarballs especially, but KittyMo and MiteyMouse are welcome to weigh in as well:

How genuine do you feel Starbuck's post-hammer rant was?

It made me feel like she was town, but the only thing that seemed a bit odd was this:

I have been working on a notepad document that I was going to post now that I got home from work. Now all that hard work has gone to waste and it's not worth posting because it's obvious that you all just didn't care.

It's just crap. I was asked to give my suspicions. I've had a notepad document going because I prefer big analysis posts rather than the 5 billion posts people make when doing analysis. I was going to finish it up when I got home and post it. I was getting ready to and noticed I was hammered.

She still could've posted whatever notes and thoughts she had at that moment and surely they could've helped us find scum on later days. I don't know if she would've done it if she had actually been town, though.

I have a question for Tarballs and Sanjay. Are you still using the out of thread communication at this point in the game?

Not very much, MiteyMouse. I used it once for prodding and that's it.

^ Pretty much that as well.

[Tarballs]

Well, uhm, I certainly wasn't expecting a hammer yet. Judging from MiteyMouse's reactions, it seems we nailed the last scum, but I want to see confirmation on that first.

[Tarballs]

About time I survived a game. This game became so much more enjoyable after Sanjay replaced in, so thank you for that. Although I'm a bit sad that this game ended so soon, I don't know how I could've lived through the stress of a 3 player lylo, so this works too.

I became more convinced about Kitty's innocence towards the end, as she kept dropping those 'desperate town' tells. I always had a bit of suspicion on ODDin after that slip incident, but I'm glad I didn't start tunneling on him like I almost did. Henrz/Sanjay was obvtown.

Thanks, mykonian, for hosting!

BTW, Tarballs, I seem to remember you also ran a similar setup. Is that game over yet? If it is, how did the daytalking go there?

The game is still ongoing and it has nighttalking instead of daytalking. That's pretty much the only thing I can say at this point.