Knock Knock.
Who's there?
Vote Fuzzy..wha??...why?
Cuz Snowbunny asked me to and she has a virgina.
Why do I irritate you? Because I think you're scum? You know that finding scum and voting for them is the point of this game right?JL wrote:Also, you irritate me. See above answer.
Unless you 100% can or 100% can't, it's not going to be something you can prove. I'm not sure it's provable anyway to be completely honest. Let's say scum have only a night kill and no power roles. You say you will kill X to prove you aren't scum. What would stop scum from just not killing N1 and setting you up? Only one kill at night would be assumed as a scum kill (that's how I'd look at it at least). If only your person X died, what would stop us from thinking you are scum? At the very least, it doesn't prove your innocence. That's not even taking into account scum power roles.JL wrote:...where I can almost kill someone
Well, the first part is wrong, but you're prolly right about the second. How do you feel about those trying to link your alignment to JL's? Namely Imag and then Budja.SB wrote:Right. Weak excuse for an attempt of a quick hammer. And, tbh, you just can't be cute like me. Razz
YES! it DOES seem very contradictory! That's why you should die! You are either lying scum and your claim got the better of you, or you are completely worthless town. Lets go through your "powers" thus far.JL wrote:Apparently, once a player has been stumped, they can still be killed and thus have to stop talking. This is what I was told; it seems contradictory to me, but I will have to go back this evening and re-read some thread and some PMs.
Snowbunny...his claim is NOT easily provable, and even if it was, I don't know if I would want him to. Read my previous post and tell me a 100% way to prove it and even if we could prove it, how it would be helpful to town in any way...Snow_Bunny wrote:I don't see why people are attacking Josh when he has an easily confirmed claim. And, after all, Budja is the right lynch for today.
A) Because this potential for confirming him is far less likely to happen then the potential for a number of other things to happen. At this point, now that he has claimed this role and if it were true, scum could possibly have a multitude of options to make sure he looks like a liar tomorrow and is lynched anyway. Thought I explained this well enough already.Netopalis wrote:Ok.....
First of all, there is no point in scum killing a stump unless the stump is a particularly good player, since killing somebody else puts them one round closer to LYLO. Second, this IS a town role because it is effectively a vig if it hits scum. We then become one vote further away from LYLO.
Second, the resultant role is a role that has been used before. See the wiki article:
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... Tree_Stump
Now, of course, this is a night action that creates a tree stump. That's fine. In fact, it's rather what we expect in theme games, as they're often plays on obscure roles used elsewhere.
Third, you've not explained why you feel that the claim is a lie, other than that you don't seem to understand what the role does. Please explain the following:
A) Why do you think that we need to lynch Lyman despite the potential for confirming him?
B) Why do you feel that his claim is fraudulent?
C) What made you suspicious of Lyman to begin with? What acts of his do you find scummy?
Well, I would have made the "stump" unkillable for starters. If the power exists in this fashion, it would have been much more useful if not used N1.Fuzzyman wrote:China, if you were the mod and wanted to make the role that JL has claimed suitable for a town-aligned player, what would you do?
Do I really have to say it AGAIN!?? HE...COULD...HIT...A...TOWN...PR...WITH...THIS...POWER...IF...HE...HAS...IT...AND...THAT...WOULD...BE...BAD. Given that this is a theme game, I imagine there are more townie's with PR's than there are without. THAT'S why it's a bad idea for us to "wait on the off-chance that Lyman MIGHT clear himself tonight". I would rather him live and NOT use his power (if he has it) than for him to clear himself by using it. Well, I'd really rather him die today, but we've been through this. But again, if the majority want him to use it in an attempt to let himself prove he's town, then I have a short list of 3 people he could choose from that would be less likely to really hurt the town. I choose 3 because it gives him the best chance to clear himself and give scum a 33% chance of stopping him vs a probably 100% chance if we pick one person and a really good chance of him hitting a good town PR if we let him choose on his own.Netopalis wrote:Can anybody tell me why it would be a bad idea to wait on the off-chance that Lyman MIGHT clear himself tonight? Anybody? I mean, sure, it's probable that scum has a roleblocker, but there is a chance that they don't, and I think we're all going to be smacking ourselves on the forehead if we don't at least give it a shot.
Still not really seeing what he did pre-claim that was so serious either. I see some light tells, but nothing hugely serious. Certainly not compared to the fuss you folks are making about him.
Wow, well, first I'll answer your questions even though you didn't answer mine (though I can get the just of how you'd answer it from your post, you didn't answer it directly but w/e).MacavityLock wrote:Why are town PRs more in danger than scum?Chinaman wrote:All in all I don't like this power in a non-tree stump game due to the fact of our town PR's are in danger more than the scum. Especially if we are telling him to prove it on N1.
dana and China, what are your feelings on one shot vigs? China, is yours summed up in the following?Have you ever played in a game with a pro-town vig?Chinaman wrote:Call it a stumping PR or call it a vig PR, I don't really care for either in the town's hands. The only people who can be sure of who they are killing/stumping are the scum and townie vig's/stumpers are just shooting in the dark.
Lyman, upon further thought, I'd say feel free to use your stumping ability whenever it feels right, including tonight if you like. I will expect a complete explanation of whether or not you used it and on who in your first post tomorrow. You're not off the hook, but I'm happy to see you live another day.
There's got to be scum on the 2nd Lyman wagon.
What changed from this quote to your most recent one about him using it whenever he'd like blah blah blah?MacavityLock wrote:Right now, I'm thinking that if Lyman is around tonight, he should not be using this treestumping shot tonight. Saving it for later, once we've got fewer targets is probably a better idea.
Sure Net. There are 2 thoughts going on in my head. One, the power as JL has claimed it seems...well, a tad bit overdone. I can't do it right now, but I will go back through and Isolate what his power does exactly as he has explained it. When I read it as it was going on, I thought that it was just too CF'ed of an explanation by JL for him not to be pulling it out his butt.Netopalis wrote:China, I seem to notice two threads in your arguments that I think are getting a bit too blurred. On the one hand, you seem to be saying that you don't believe the claim. On the other, you seem to be saying that you believe the claim but are arguing for a policy lynch? Do you think you could clear up this confusion a bit?
-I guess your experience is different than mine.MacavityLock wrote:Chinaman, how many theme games have you played? How many minis? How many mini themes? I don't often see games with that many PRs.
Wagon-examination isn't as useful as it would be with some flips, but this is pretty much true for any scumhunting on Day 1. Do you not believe it's a valid scumhunting method?
It's because I don't think he's been all that suspicious. What else do you want me to say?Chinaman wrote:Is there a reason Budja isn't on there [your suspicious list]?
Why would you offer yourself up to a vig, either as town or scum? You dying hurts your win condition no matter what, so I'm not sure I understand your motive behind this, except maybe in terms of other people's reads.Chinaman wrote:I would say that he target me specifically, but I don't want scum to know exactly who he's targeting tonight. All in all, I would be most afraid of him hitting someone with a PR, but I don't mind being one of the targets he has to choose from as I am without a power but still town.
Yeah, this is a bad idea.Chinaman wrote:I'm on the fence about asking others like me to step up and put their names in the hat so that he can prove himself if he is indeed town. I say this because if there were 4 of us who threw our names in the hat, that narrows the field down for scum on which town have PR's. What are your thoughts?
Why would I reveal my partner? How am I rolefishing? Why would it not be better keep my partner secret for now. Multiple good things for town can happen by doing this. Outing us both now on Day 1 would be the dumb thing. Why would you want more info going to scum about who my partner is? As of right now, they don't know, how would them knowing not be beneficial.Netopalis wrote:You.....you.....you just claimed Mason! And you're asking us to go to nightwithout revealing your partner! No way I'm hammering before we hear more.
And I'll go ahead and say it - I know that your little hypothesis is false because I am vanilla and have no further information or role.
Nobody else follow up on his little rolefishing attempt here. Unless he verifies that Mason claim, I recommend lynching him. Immediately.
LOL, yes net, I did. You know the whole part about where I said with all that's gone on today that scum should be thoroughly confused? Well, my claim is part of their confusion ya loon.Netopalis wrote:....You're a loony.
Seriously, why did you choose now to claim other than "Because I wanted to?" You really don't justify that choice at all in your post, and that bothers me.
p430 answers everything in your post.MacavityLock wrote:Chinaman, please answer my questions below.I think you gave an answer to "Why claim?", but the others remain unanswered. The important point: Does your role PM say that your partner is definitely 100% town?MacavityLock wrote:China, what does the following mean?Also, I too would like answers to the below.Chinaman wrote:I don't believe his claim at being town and being purely without anything useful.Budja wrote:1. Are you and your partner confirmed town to each other? (v. important to know now)
2 Why claim?
JL, Jason (now Dana), LL (now kik), Snow, BC.Nice work Macavity. Already one scum is caught in a web of his own weaving.
Not once have they voted each other and often they are on the same wagons. The snow and BC wagons are prolly the weakest of them all.Josh: Scummy <- initial uncertainty, AtE, call for prods.
Locke: "meta" scum read. (dexter mafia)
Net: "meta" town read. (ongoing unfortunately)
Snow Bunny: Mildly Town
Macavity: Town, agree with pretty much all he says
Snow_Bunny: null - mildly town. I obv. disagree with her reasoning but if Josh town -> Snow likely town IMO.
jasonT1981: no read
ConfidAnon: no read
Chinaman: uncertain, leaning newb-town. Still a bit of a opportunistic feel.
Fuzzyman: town
imaginality: leaning town
BloodCovenent: null
Better hope we're right about Budja!Imag wrote: I'll switch to Budja. Too late to lynch anyone else today.