Mini 914 ~ Mafia Reverberation (Game Over!)
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So the first thing that came to my mind is that we are going to have to be somewhat careful about not leaving people at L-# unless we are sure we want a purging to take place. There is a mild potential for lurking to take place and an "accidental" purging to happen. Furthermore, we cannot simply unvote because that is a No Purge.
tl,dr
Pay attention to where your vote is and P-2 is the new P-1.YOUR AD HERE
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Well that's just plain wrong:Jahudo wrote:It looks like we have close to three weeks before 7 incants is a purge. An accidental incantation is something to think about, but not much more than regular games.
Incant: VP Baltar
Are you against RVS here? y?
Can Jahudo have green flavor?
We'd have just over two weeks before it's 7 players to purge.Der Rulez wrote:8. Deadlines and the Purge threshold: There is no deadline per se. However, at the beginning of each Incantation the Purge threshold starts at the number of living players; i.e. it will take every living player Incanting the same person to Purge someone.Every three real-time days, that threshold decreases by one player.The Incantation ends when someone reaches the Purge threshold or the Purge threshold drops to zero (No Purge).
And I'm not really against the RVS, just wanted to get that thought out there.
Incant: Spyrex.
Poopy brown for me, please.YOUR AD HERE
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Oh come on, baby, don't be like that. All is fair in love and war...and, well, that was both.
In the meantime, I'm not sure if I'm following you on the multi-lynch thing. I need to look back at the rules, but multiple people can die if they pass the threshold simultaneously?YOUR AD HERE
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In that proposed situation SC, what prevents two or more scum from voting each other and then unvoting at the last second? (that process crossed my mind after Spy brought it up, but I'm trying to figure out the best way to do it and actually have it go through as planned)
Daytalking scum seems particularly annoying in relation to that plan.YOUR AD HERE
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Catching up. And first order of business is Happy B-Day, SpyreX! You're one of my favorite scummers and I hope you have a great day.
Well, that latter part is a decent deterrant in my opinion, but if I survived (and won) a game where nearly everyone has a daykill, I guess lynching 2 people early on isn't too bad of a prospect.Spyrex wrote:Even without confirmed town utilizing this for 2-4 lynches instead of one has some advantages (even with, of course, the fact that if we frak up then game-set-match for scum MUCH quicker)
You slanderous bastard! My claim was perfect. It was Llama who was shifting back and forth.Serial wrote:Your ability is special, right? Oh it's not? That's crazy.. what could the explanation be? Oh wait, you changed your mind, it IS special!
Well there are certain roles that would F that up pretty bad if the scum have them, aren't there?Porkens wrote:Well wait a minute, not to game the setup without cause but...If we have AW confirmed town, don't we just lynch EVERYONE else and those who wont play ball get slung?
edit: ah, this was addressed.
Cool with me. (and there is actually a valid reason)SC wrote:Hey, lets purge Porkens and not tell him why.
Incant: PorkensYOUR AD HERE
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Well, we win without them winning and if you're going down the road of "reveal roles to get the reporter out of the game" then you're going to end up forcing many more claims to acheive that because we don't even know what a hypothetical reporter would need to exit the game.Spy wrote:See, helping the reporter if one exists doesn't hurt me. Its dealing with those light side namby pambies that is the big one.
Basically, helping them EARLY works out a-ok because they win, tighten the scum pool, etc. Its gonna be if we wait until late when helping them with no scum left means a loss.
'cept zombies.Spyrex wrote:Of course, powerful wizards aren't worried about much.
I can think of at least on very good reason that I personally see for him not to have done that just now, but I'm not sure enough on it yet to speak on it at the moment.Jahudo wrote:Doublevote? I like the timing actually, letting us know he has the power to quicklynch before he gets the opportunity to do it. Seems protown.
See above reasoning about revealing roles for the reporter to win. I may have something else to add to this soon, but I need to think about that. Other than that, I don't have that much interest in it, but I could very likely be missing something you are seeing.Jahudo wrote:VP, are you going somewhere with this? I see a few possibilities and want to see one of them is it.
I'm really not following your actual reasoning on this one. I think you misinterpreted what Sotty said, be it intentionally or not.SC wrote:Honestly guys, this case is making itself. The only reason I'm still typing is because I'm trying to break this keyboard before the warranty is due. There should be no need for any further action except incanting Sotty.
Of course, I think Sotty is reaching as well. So, meh.
Strategy talk in the first three pages of a semi-open game is scummy in your opinion? lolJahudo wrote: VP, who is worthy of a wagon. (for focusing on strategy talk and fluff posts instead of scumhunting)
Spy, don't you think it would have been better to place your double vote after you had a more solid read that just gut? I mean, for all intents and purposes that single vote makes Sotty much more lynchable than anyone else for the rest of this phase.YOUR AD HERE
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Well, we win without them winning and if you're going down the road of "reveal roles to get the reporter out of the game" then you're going to end up forcing many more claims to acheive that because we don't even know what a hypothetical reporter would need to exit the game.Spy wrote:See, helping the reporter if one exists doesn't hurt me. Its dealing with those light side namby pambies that is the big one.
Basically, helping them EARLY works out a-ok because they win, tighten the scum pool, etc. Its gonna be if we wait until late when helping them with no scum left means a loss.
'cept zombies.Spyrex wrote:Of course, powerful wizards aren't worried about much.
I can think of at least on very good reason that I personally see for him not to have done that just now, but I'm not sure enough on it yet to speak on it at the moment.Jahudo wrote:Doublevote? I like the timing actually, letting us know he has the power to quicklynch before he gets the opportunity to do it. Seems protown.
See above reasoning about revealing roles for the reporter to win. I may have something else to add to this soon, but I need to think about that. Other than that, I don't have that much interest in it, but I could very likely be missing something you are seeing.Jahudo wrote:VP, are you going somewhere with this? I see a few possibilities and want to see one of them is it.
I'm really not following your actual reasoning on this one. I think you misinterpreted what Sotty said, be it intentionally or not.SC wrote:Honestly guys, this case is making itself. The only reason I'm still typing is because I'm trying to break this keyboard before the warranty is due. There should be no need for any further action except incanting Sotty.
Of course, I think Sotty is reaching as well. So, meh.
Strategy talk in the first three pages of a semi-open game is scummy in your opinion? lolJahudo wrote: VP, who is worthy of a wagon. (for focusing on strategy talk and fluff posts instead of scumhunting)
Spy, don't you think it would have been better to place your double vote after you had a more solid read that just gut? I mean, for all intents and purposes that single vote makes Sotty much more lynchable than anyone else for the rest of this phase.YOUR AD HERE
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Alright.Spy wrote:Less of a "Lets help the hypothetical reporter win!" and more of a "If they exist and we CAN help them win while doing the important stuff, no sweat off my back".
In general when there are third parties I can work WITH versus worrying about working against I prefer the former. (Although, realistically, with the number of players and the number of factions I wouldn't lose sleep over the possibility of a reporter - in fact, I think I'd prefer a reporter / town / scum setup over the others by a decent margin).
But it's still there regardless. I don't think it's going to make amazingly more likely to be lynched, but facts are facts, right? I dunno, I just think it was a bit of an impetuous decision (though that doesn't necessarily say anything about alignment I guess).Spy wrote:More lynchable by one. I mean, my other vote can move around AND as we sit the Purge threshold is so high that, honestly, if that vote becomes a rationale for a wagon that means either a.) Sotty continues down the madness hole and needs to be lynched anyways or b.) we lollygagged SO MUCH that the threshold got that low which would make a POWERFUL WIZARD cry tears of blood.YOUR AD HERE
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Yeah, I'm not expecting anything fantastic at this point, but the "she's scum digging her own grave" act is a touch over the top for this early in the game.SerialClergyman wrote:VP, the case being weak or unconvincing I can handle (why do people talk about 'stretching' 5 pages into a game? Are they expecting QED?) but in what way do you think I've misinterpreted Sotty?
As far as misinterpreted, I'm referring to her 'Why porkens out of everyone?' line, which I actually read as she is saying she meant it (ie why porkens instead of others). You're taking it as her defending porkens, but that's a pretty over the top interpretation of it in my mind. Why not just read it as her trying to find out your thought process?YOUR AD HERE
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I don't know about wizards, but the zombies bit is a reference to a game that Spy, Serial and I were just in together.Jahudo wrote:And what's all this about wizards and zombies? I thought we were just the darkness in this game :/
I'm down with,Incant zoraster, especially since I know he is posting elsewhere.
Explain this please.Juls wrote:given the mechanic of this game I think doublevote is a more scummy ability.YOUR AD HERE
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How about a vote then?Jahudo wrote:
This was over a week ago. Unless he was excited about playing the lurker, he needs to come in and explain himself.zoraster wrote: I'm excited to play in this game.
^This goes for everyone else. I'm pretty certain zoraster is intentionally lurking and should be greeted upon his return with a hearty wagon.YOUR AD HERE
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It's an ongoing game that I'm dead in. Though he stopped after I first brought it up.Jahudo wrote:@VP: Where's the evidence that zoraster is posting elsewhere? Besides modding, since that would take priority. I can't find it in Google search.
I don't like this at all. Jazz is implying that these people have done something to have pinged her scumdar (at least on an intuitive level), when in actuality they have done almost nothing at all either way. I don't mind calling out lurking as scummy (because it is), but I feel Jazz is implying more than that here.Jazzmyn wrote:That said, I'm getting bad vibes from zoraster, BloodCovenent, and Mighty Orbots, but it's nearly all based on "gut" rather than on substantive evidence.
I agree with Jahudo about zor making excessive excuses. I don't even think the site has been that annoying as of late (at least not as much as it was before mith made his corrections).YOUR AD HERE
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Actually, I think zoraster's point about you being in the background was one of his better because I feel the same way. No doubt that CTIII is coloring my perception, but I'm certainly wary of your hydra.MO wrote:1. I guess it's also a coincidence that you're attacking the one who started your wagon.
2. I also guess we were supposed to ignore the questions people were asking us about how the hydra was going to work.
3. I also also guess I'm not taking a stand on anyone by advocating for your wagon.
I'd like your opinion of Sotty and the wagon on her plz.
Really? I didn't understand her reasoning at all and I don't think she actually explained it well. I'd like you to elaborate.Hero wrote:I think Juls was right the first time.
*bats eyelashes* Why of course.....hero wrote:Have you ever been town?
Well, apart from it being fairly early in the game, I think I've at least tried to be forthcoming and comment on relevant things. I think Sotty and Jahudo (though I just read one of his scum games recently and he's quite tricksy) are probably town at this time. I think Spyrex's double voting business is very much null. Porkens and zoraster (my two votes this game) are my two earliest guesses for scum, but that's largely intuitive given how little both of them have said. I just mentioned MO. Other than that, things are largely still up in the air for me. Is there something or someone specific you wanted my opinion on that I haven't talked about?hero wrote:You haven't posted many reads on people (though you aren't the only one.) Would you, please?YOUR AD HERE
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Sure, I really didn't like his vote on Spyrex initially because of his tone in that post. He basically seemed to want to discredit the multi-purge theory.hero wrote:I think this is the only thing you've said about suspecting Porkens so far. Are you ready to tell us the secret?
That could be coming from a cautious townie as well, but then when he agrees with MO's advocating of multi-purges in post 51 it goes to full-tilt scummy. Jahudo points this out in post 56 and I really didn't find Porken's response (he didn't like spyrex's tone) to be at all satisfactory.
We also had the double newb card playing. The first one I took as a joke, the second was making early excuses, particularly since it was relating to the roles in the game.
Which seems like it could be making excuses for him later if he makes a "mistake" with his role.Porkens wrote:I'll go ahead and state that, for me, with this wide a range of possible roles, it's going to be difficult to see all possible RP-combination outcomes. I can handle cop/blocker/doc/vanillas, but I'm not going to be able to follow some of what you guys might come up with as far as "but if there's an X and he's a Y, then Z could happen because of G, R, and L, statistically." So if I ask you to restate or dumb-down, it's not because I'm not paying attention or am trying to trap you, but because I really don't have a grasp. //newbcardYOUR AD HERE
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I couldn't tell you at this point. I don't like his atypical lurking, but he claims to be busy in RL atm. I felt like he was putting a little effort earlier, but he has since dropped off the face of the game.SC wrote:@VP, while apparently I have caught your attention - SerialClergyman is scum y/n?YOUR AD HERE
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I don't think any of my reasons have changed actually, nor do I think they were vague in the first place.SC wrote:Anyone voting zoraster can now mention why aside from vagueries posted earlier, please.
I think I'm going to have to more thoroughly review this Sotty case today because I feel like I'm missing something that apparently is obvious to others. Perhaps any one of you four can give me the highlights; it's that she is being reactionary to those attacking her and apparently hypocritical or selective in her scumhunting, right?YOUR AD HERE
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I am of the pretty strong opinion that we should not purge more than two players, at least for the first phase. Not knowing what will happen in the night phase is a big variable that I would like to see before we push more purges than that at a time.
That being said, zor's argument against it is silly. Zor, what do you think the probability is that scum could influence multiple purges effectively this early in the game when they are so strongly out numbered? My guess is that if the town gets at least on a somewhat correct path for day 1 (ie purging at least one scum), the other scums would have a hard time dealing with the situation in a way that did not make them stand out.
Going to start looking at the sotty case now, but I'd still like someone on the wagon who is around to help me understand the arguments better.YOUR AD HERE
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Ok, I'm just going to start from the beginning and address the points people are raising about Sotty.
The first is on page 4 by SC, I've already stated that I think this was a misreading and a weak attack. Spyrex double votes her immediately after this, which I still don't necessarily understand either.
Sotty then replies in Post 96. While I don't think her being annoyed at having three votes over an obvious misreading of her post is unreasonable, her linking of Spy and Serial is a touch strange. I don't feel that Serial was "deflecting from the Spy wagon" as she tries to put it. At this point, their voting seems like mutual exaggeration.
hrmmm, just spotted something weird I missed before. In Sotty's Post 107 she is explaining why she sees Serial's vote on her as an attempt to redirect away from the semi-serious Spy wagon. But in that post, Sotty, you say both:Sotty wrote:This is pretty obviously a serious vote [by Porkens] and puts Spy at the head of the vote count with two RVS votes on him.
and
I'm not even sure I understand this. Do you see Porkens' vote serious or RVS?Sotty wrote: He [Serial] tries to redirect over to Porkens, who was voting Spy at the time, in a seemingly RVS mannor. Things were starting to get serious and he pulls this, I'd like to know why.
I do think it is slightly weird that Sotty says she thinks scum-Serial would have been directing away from a wagon on town-Spyrex. That's pretty non-sensical.
*momentary side track*
I still do not understand this. At the time of your double vote she had said almost nothing other than questioning Serial about "why porkens". Had it been after her whole theory about you two being scumbuddies (but not really!) I could see your reasoning. As it is though, this seems like a bit of revisionism, which I hate.Spyrex wrote:Sotty was just a bit off - I don't mind questions, but those early posts weren't giving me those sweet home vibes. And, really, this Porkens-gate is a hoot and a half and I still can't figure out what Sotty is goin on about
*end momentary side track*
Porkens' vote in post 130
Doesn't exactly make me feel like he (she?) understands the arguments put forth and is using rhetoric to hop over.Porkens wrote:Sotty's reaction and flailing onto people on his wagon makes me feel comfortable with the vote above.
That being said, Jazzmyn saying:
Seems a bit strongly worded. Jazz, do you or did you agree with Sotty's logic at that point regarding her vote on Serial?Jazzmyn wrote:I'm also suspicious of those on the Sotty wagon because I just don't see any legitimate cause for it. Her posts have not been scummy and her wagon looks contrived to me.
Sotty, did your read on serial change at all by post 170 when you said:
You were sounding pretty confident about serial prior to this and I'm not sure why the sudden switch.Sotty wrote:I wouldn't argue against a MO wagon at this point. I think the reaction to Spy's double vote on me was fishy. He just asked why me and yet didn't give any opinions of the action itself. Felt like he was waiting to see how others reacted.
Jahudo's Post 189 stinks if you ask me. First, I don't think the quotes between Sotty and MO are comparable at all as one is asking about a wagon switch and the other is asking about the reasons for double voting. Jahudo says they are the same thing and Sotty looks hypocritical because of it. This is a bit troubling after Jahudo had not too much earlier seemed disinterested in the Sotty wagon. + scum points here
Hero agrees with this also, which I don't understand. *edit* and Spy *edit*
Nacho agrees (to a lesser extent) with the Sotty wagon, but doesn't say why. Care to explain?
This again does not sit well with me. The questions were not similar. Also, she attacked MO for fencesitting on the double voting issue, which isn't relatable to my "wtf" comment because I very clearly said I disagreed with it. Taking quotes out of context also doesn't sit well with me.Jahudo wrote:Sotty, I think you had asked an innocent question to SC about his Porkens vote. And maybe you would have given an opinion on it before pressed to.
But two people asked similar innocent questions to Spyrex about his doublevote before giving any opinions on the subject. I think it's scummy that you aren't holding yourself, and others, to the same tell you put on Orbots.
Jahudo, you need to explain to me how these quotes are the same.
tl;dr
Ok, that's pretty much the Sotty wagon. I still think it's weak. The ONLY reason I can see to support it is that she thought Serial could have been deflecting from a hypo-town Spyrex wagon. Sotty, I want to hear your updated opinions on this.
The stuff from Jahudo is trash to me unless he can actually explain logically whatever he is getting at. I don't like that lots of people followed on his logic either, though I guess I can see people not going back to look at the actual context and timeline of the quotes he's pulling.
I'll comment more after some people respond.YOUR AD HERE
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Well, that was on Feb. 3 and the only posts he has made since then were today in his theory debate over the multiple purges, so no I don't think he's scumhunting. More active, sure. The call for his own lynch does nothing for me. Scum do that all the time.Jahudo wrote:@VP: Since you said this, do you think zoraster is being active and scumhunting? Do you agree with Nacho's reasons for being on the wagon?
I think Nacho is lazily following the wagon. I don't know if he's town or scum doing it.
However, I do have a more interesting question for Nacho when he answers about his town read on MO.YOUR AD HERE
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I may be willing to come over that way Spy (or at least support that as one of our two purges today). I need a few more responses from some people before I really get in the "these are the people that NEED to die today" mode.YOUR AD HERE
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But if you are looking at the context of the questions and the specific arguments they are asking about, they are not the same at all, which is what I'm getting at. I guess I can see you reading it on that level, however.Jahudo wrote:I think they are both asking about the reasons behind votes that aren't obviously stated in the thread. And neither question has a comment attached to it in the initial question post.
Yes, I'm talking about the overall timeline. My opinion was stated before Sotty's post, so a comparison between MO and myself on that issue is not valid in the slightest.Jahudo wrote:You didn't say anything in your initial post: Post 80. I think your referring to post 87? Spyrex had posted in between those two. But if we're going by real time, you gave your opinion way before MO. It took VP about 20 minutes, and I'm not sure MO has given an opinion on Spy's double vote yet.
That's one strong beverage!Jazz wrote:I literally fell asleep at my keyboard last night while writing my new game notes.
Also now is the time toUnincant, Incant: Serialclergymanfor playing completely against his normally active and questioning town meta.YOUR AD HERE
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ZOMG, thanks!CryMeARiver wrote:http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 69#2098469YOUR AD HERE
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In fairness, that was you and you were scum from an opposing team! Oh, how I loathe that I didn't join that wagon when I had the opportunity.Hero wrote:I've seen VP, as scum in a different game, talk about a player being suspicious, then do a PBPA and declare a more townish read. (Though there wasn't a wagon on the player at the time, and he knew there was another scumgroup.) I agree with your conclusion about him right now. Somewhere in the middle, not seeming to be clearly town or scum.
Perhaps because the wagon is really weak? I deconstructed the whole thing and there is like one good point. I hardly think it should be the leading wagon.SC wrote:I'm not sure why I should move my vote off Sotty, to be honest.
Nah, I think I'm pretty spot on actually. You have tunnelled hardcore this game, which is VERY atypical for SC-town on day 1. I expect you to actually analyze the wagon you are on continually and re-evaluate if needed. You're not doing that at all this game. You've just latched onto this wagon and have stayed on it until you could watch reasons develop for you to be there legitimately. That's not SC town behavior at all.SC wrote:VP should know better about my town meta, but I'll forgive him because he's pretty.
I don't even know a single other player you're suspicious of now that I think about it. It's page 11 in case you haven't noticed either.
What is unusual about that?SC wrote:Jahudo - made a good observation about Sotty, then eventually voted, then unvoted and hasn't revoted after signalling a possible shift to the MO wagon. That's certainly unusual.
I'm treating the arguments on their own merits. I wanted to look back because I felt that I was missing something so many other people were seeing, however, when I did look at the details it was obvious to me that I was correct the first time. I agreed with the only good point made on the entire wagon (Jahudo's) and pointed out why the rest are crap.SC wrote:VP has actively defended Sotty from just about everything thrown at her. Is this conscious, or have you just treated every argument on merit?
I don't have a massive town read on Sotty, but when I see a wagon that poorly formed, I'm inclined to believe scum are behind it, so I have no problem tearing it down and starting something better.
Well, I don't think any kind of bravado in the early pages is more than a null tell. What do you think about his tunnelling though? What do you think of the arguments he's made about Sotty? Have you seen SC as both town and scum?Spy wrote:SC, realistically, pushing a decent push as a slam dunk that early with the high probability of backfiring doesn't strike me as a scum machination.
Hmm, that is definitely a possibility and something I forgot to consider.Jahudo wrote:I've actually been looking at SC as a possible lyncher.
Multi-purges! Lest we forget. I'd rather purge someone I think could be mafia but also lyncher rather than someone who could be mafia but also town.Jahudo wrote:We don't need to purge SC, because I'd rather find the mafia-types.YOUR AD HERE
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For the record SC, I don't think I said anything about your activity really meaning anything about your alignment. I'll look at the links you provided when I get a chance to see if I think you actually tunnel as town or not.YOUR AD HERE
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Not really because if your targets are NK'ed you lose. The key to being a lyncher is getting your lynches as fast as possible.SC wrote:The key to a lyncher is survival, in my opinion.
So do you think your looking for town experiment was a failure then since you seem to have returned to the tunneling style?SC wrote:Anyway - Hambargarz is probably my absolute worst tunnel, so check that out. No frills and Quick and Dirty were both tunnelled but both on scum. If you need more then I'm sure I have them around. Oneo f the major purposes of the looking for town experiment was specifically to try to cut out that kind of behaviour. (The other, incidentally, was to be more active on D1 lol).
Ah, yeah. I guess it was partially meant that way, but I was more meaning actively hunting scum than anything. Your posting less frequently was corroborated in our other ongoing, so I couldn't care less about that. I just expect to see you trying to figure out who the scum are when you are here, which I'm not really seeing with the Sotty wagon.SC wrote:That's what I interpreted the bolded section to mean, I could have misunderstood.YOUR AD HERE
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I agree that the Sotty wagon sucks. As someone who has played with her plenty, including as scum partners and masons to give me extra insight into her thought processes, my gut really tells me strongly that she's town in this instance.
This read might change in coming days if I see something truly scummy from her, but I definitely think there are better purges out there right now (zoraster or SC or porkens, for example).YOUR AD HERE
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Didn't we already discuss this? Until I read your town meta (I'm hoping tomorrow, just replaced into kind of a long game and I'm catching up reading there first) and I'm dissuaded, I'm sticking by my gut that your tunneling here is not coming from town.
Didn't I ask you a question today as well?YOUR AD HERE
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@ SC - looking at the games you provided, here is my response to them:
Quick and Dirty - Perhaps mild tunneling, but not to the extent of this game. you wanted to lynch ODDin or Amished and eventually directed yourself toward Amished. You also were discussing other angles. In this game you started with Sotty and didn't move.
No Frills Mafia - Again, no tunnelling here. You seriously vote no less than 3 players early on.
Gif Mafia - Nope, plenty of voting for different players happening here. This game is also a bit old to be used as meta for you as well.
Hambargarz Mafia- This is the closest resemblance I see to this game. You do seem to tunnel on IdiotKing here, but I do sense you at least probing other directions a little. Regardless of that, this is older than Gif mafia (almost a year old).
I only gave these a cursory skim and for who you were directing your comments/attacks at and voting for, so if you think I'm way off base in any of these please point it out and I'll try to find the time to look in great detail. I do encourage the rest of the town to look at these as well and reach their own conclusions.
As far as this point goes, how do we know you don't think you've caught a rival scum faction here? After all, there is the possibility of third parties in this setup.SC wrote:The game you bring up, Webcomic Wars I did indeed tunnel on a townie as scum, but I was 100% convinced he was the enemy scum because our night kill failed on him the night before. You can see that by the mafia QT, a link of which was posted in game.
What does this mean? Who are you chainsawing for?SC wrote:And like anything with mafia, tunnelling is a nice neutral way to chainsaw defend someone
Overall, I think my meta read of SC is very much correct. He has been out of control tunneling on Sotty and then when called on it he's suddenly not certain about her and ready to switch to Jahudo (for what reason, I'm not entirely sure). I'm not the biggest fan of cases strictly on meta, but I've played with Serial quite a bit in recent times and I'm calling my read good.
Spy, if you have a legit reason he shouldn't be purged today, I want to hear it. Just saying no isn't going to cut it this time Mr. DARE Officer.-
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I'm referring to serious votes, not random voting.SC wrote:VP, I've voted no less than 3 people early in this game too
Fair enough, but this is a semi open setup, so you don't really need info in your role pm.SC wrote:The Webcomic example I had role based information to believe Percy was scum. We had an NK-immune member and he had mysteriously survived a NK attempt, so we assumed the scum teams were symmetrical. I obviously don't have any role-based info here.
Not necessarily, I was just saying that the excuse you were making for you doing it as scum in that game doesn't really hold water here.SC wrote:But aside from that - say I was a rival faction - then I would be simply scumhunting my rival faction. I'd have no reason to be more or less tunnelled than any other time. Is it your opinion that if I was scumhunting my rival faction I'd be more likely to tunnel than if I was town hunting the scum?
What it does look like to me, however, is that you're more inclined to tunnel hard as scum than town.
That's fair. I'm not denying that I've been vocally against a Sotty purge today. If I'm wrong and she's scum, then I'll have to face that music when it happens. I still don't necessarily feel that she is though.SC wrote:You're attacking my buddy and not letting go so I'm saying you're tunnelled. Doesn't address the argument, but calls your buddy's accusor scummy and invites pressure to get them to move their vote. I don't know/think this is happening here, but it's in the back of my mind.YOUR AD HERE
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I would conceed that you tunneled in Hambargarz, I think the other games aren't all that equitable to the style of tunneling in this game. The fact that Hambargarz is so old though, is worthy of note in my mind.SC wrote:2) You have at least conceeded two town games where I was tunnelling. There has been one scum game mentioned where I tunnelled, but on someone I genuinely thought was scum. What makes you think that my actions are more likely to come from scum?
And I think scum in general are more likely to tunnel. It helps them for a number of reasons, including looking aggressive and limiting the need to take stances on other players that may eventually need to be rescinded as the situation calls for. Also, I think scum are less likely to be conscious of the fact that they are tunneling because they are focused on simply getting a mislynch.
I also think you're reasoning for abandoning finding town reads doesn't quite hold water for me. Clearly you thought tunneling was bad from your early games, as you have proclaimed, so returning to it as an optimal playstyle choice doesn't sit well with me.
So you're sayingg that you knew for sure that it was in the game? When did you learn this and why didn't you tell the town?MO wrote:You learned this just now?-
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Did you actually look at it or you simply don't like meta? I think it is quite useful in this case, as tunneling like he has done on Sotty is atypical for him. Additionally, I don't think his own explanations for it (change of playstyle) quite add up.MO wrote:Also, please do something other than talk meta with SC. I'm not getting anything useful from that.
I use that dressing on spinach salads all the time.MO wrote:SpyreX is full of vinegar and secrets.YOUR AD HERE
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I don't know what this means and I don't plan to read this game. Do tell.Nik wrote:I'm totally serious about that incant, too. Think how I accused Sotty7, Kreriov, and Col.Cathart in Picking Simplicity, for those of you who have read it. That's the same thing as this here.
Necessarily being the operative word. What do you think of Spy's reasoning for double voting Sotty at that time?Nik wrote:
Reaching! If it has nothing to do with alignment, why bother mentioning it?VP wrote:But it's still there regardless. I don't think it's going to make amazingly more likely to be lynched, but facts are facts, right? I dunno, I just think it was a bit of an impetuous decision (though that doesn't necessarily say anything about alignment I guess).
Sure, definitely. However, what I think is important in this case is that Serial was self supplying this meta to back up his play in this game. It's not me going out there hand picking examples to prove my point. I think if you look at the games he chose, you'll see that the argument he is making (that he would tunnel as town) does not hold water in comparison to this game.MO wrote:I'm not a huge fan of meta, no, because I do believe people's playstyles change over time.
Oh come on now, I have done plenty of questioning and looking around this game, but when I think I found scum I have to do my best to prove my point.MO wrote:Also tunneling on him about tunneling is irony++.
Umami?Spyrex wrote:And I'm not vinegary, sheesh. POWERFUL WIZARDS exist outside the realm of normal taste-descriptors.
I have input on the double voter business at a later date when I have figured a few things out in my head.-
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C'mon now, work with me here. One of those and SC or if I'm absolutely not going to get that, zoraster (though I don't think his lurking means anything any more). The point of two purges is that we can make everybody happy!Nik wrote:Anyway, I'd be happy doublepurging Jazzmyn and Rhinox now.YOUR AD HERE
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It's not dangling Spy, he'll explode into a million molecules of light. It's very Zen in a way. You should stop being stubborn about it.
Zor hasn't done a lot, but if he's not here it's not an alignment tell either way. It'd be over his straight up lurking early in the game, which is a bit hohum. Maybe, but as a last resort I think.
You looked at the SC case I take it? What did you think?MO wrote:Zoraster + SC?YOUR AD HERE
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I liked Jazz's mega posts and found myself agree at times (though some of those times were because she was regurgitating my own or others' points), but since then she's done next to nothing...so it's hard to get a consistent feel either way. I'd put her in the category with MO of players who show up when attention seems to be garnered or they are asked a direct question. After that they happily slip into the background.Jahudo wrote:Are you feeling anything more on Jazzmyn since your Post 167?
Or was that post all about compromise to get SC purged?
Is it that you could find Jazzmyn or Rhinox more likely scum, or zoraster more likely town?
In terms of Rhinox, I find him hard to read. I think people have raised some ok points about him, but I feel like he's akin to me in that we naturally come across scummy at times regardless of alignment.
My previous post was mostly about reaching a compromise to get SC purged because he is my strongest read today, and I view Rhinox or Jazz as persons who I wouldn't mind seeing purged. I don't have the strongest reads on them, but they certainly aren't in my town category. If I got to choose both of the purges today, I'd probably pick SC and MO.
zoraster is completely null for me anymore. Too much time has passed and I really wish that slot would be replaced.-
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Well, I think my vote is clear.Sotty wrote:I'd actually like to know what you think about that.
Also, from post 403:
I don't like the massive lurk from their hydra and basically not committing to much of anything when they do rarely post.VP wrote:If I got to choose both of the purges today, I'd probably pick SC and MO.-
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