Mini 380: Artifacts- Game over
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ShadowLurker 9 years old
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Ok, I have just reread the game. Here are my thoughts right now:
For most of the game, all we have seen is a Coron vs. Nai argument. From what I could gather, Jules seemed to be a big part of it at the beginning but most of his posts disappeared in the crash, is that correct? People have been taking sides on Coron and Nai, which is why I find the recent vote count highly odd for the behavior of this game:
Nightfall: Why is your vote on CTD?Nai- 2 (Coron, Jules)
Jules- 2 (CrashTextDummie, Stewie)
Coron- 2 (Nai, lunalovegood)
CrashTextDummie- 1 (Nightfall)
lunalovegood- 1 (HackerHuck)
HH: Why is your vote on luna?
Jules seems to still have things to clear up from like page 3 or 4 which is unacceptable.
I received a similar read on both sides of the Coron vs. Nai camp, found serious flaws and things that I could not agree with in both of their arguments. However, we can't have all of those people be scum, and I doubt a staged argument could last as long as it has so I am starting to think that both of those are town and am more suspicious of the people who have joined their one of their camps but aren't really taking a hard stance on this.
I found Zindaras' constant pursuance of the person I replaced, lunalovegood, extremely odd throughout the whole game especially with this argument going on. I have some theories but all I will say on this subject right now is:
Zindaras: What is your opinion on the Coron vs. Nai debate?:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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I didn't even notice your constant pursual, I think it was the fact that you were involved in the Coron vs. Nai debate, yet Zindaras seemed to have completely stayed out of it.HackerHuck wrote:
I voted for Luna because of this post, which put Coron at lynch-1.ShadowLurker wrote:HH: Why is your vote on luna?
Jules seems to still have things to clear up from like page 3 or 4 which is unacceptable.
I received a similar read on both sides of the Coron vs. Nai camp, found serious flaws and things that I could not agree with in both of their arguments. However, we can't have all of those people be scum, and I doubt a staged argument could last as long as it has so I am starting to think that both of those are town and am more suspicious of the people who have joined their one of their camps but aren't really taking a hard stance on this.
I found Zindaras' constant pursuance of the person I replaced, lunalovegood, extremely odd throughout the whole game especially with this argument going on. I have some theories but all I will say on this subject right now is:
Zindaras: What is your opinion on the Coron vs. Nai debate?
The overall case against Coron waslunalovegood in post 43 wrote:Lol. Anywayunvote, vote Coronbecause he seems to be acting a bit scummy and too sure of himself.incrediblyweak at that point. She made things worse with her explanation of why - both in post 43 and in post 51. In post 51, she mentions that she didn't know Coron would be at lynch-1 with her vote, but in post 42 (1 hour before her vote in post 43) I asked why Coron was at lynch-2. I felt her reasoning was pretty soft for putting someone one vote from lynch.
In case you were just wondering why my vote was still on her, it's because I haven't felt anyone else to be scummier. See my post 188 for a brief rundown on how I feel about everyone.
Er, almost everyone. I just noticed that I somehow missed GreenLiquid in that post. I know he's contributed, so I'll try and take a look at his posts and see what I come up with.
Why do you find Zindaras' pursuit of Luna stranger than mine? Although we both had the same idea/suspicion, I placed the first vote on Luna, and I did not unvote.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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Is that supposed to mean something? First of all, I'm pretty sure Space Monkey is still going. Next, I'm not lurking now, and neither was luna, she was just inactive. The very point that me and luna have different actions shows that there are different playstyles so I see no idea why you brought that up in the first place other than to subtly discredit me.Zindaras wrote:EBWOP: Coron's playing as usual, and the early game wagon which put him at Lynch-1 reeks of scum. I don't think I've seen Nai play like this in any other game.
An interesting thing to note, by the way, is that in Space Monkey Mafia, an early bandwagon also showed up, and the person who put the guy at Lynch-1 and then tried to slip back into lurkerdom also was scum.
Vote: Zindaras:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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Sorry for trying to catch scum while the town has been enveloped in taking camps and cheerleading while Nai and Coron duke it out.Zindaras wrote:
Luna's playstyle is comparable to bird's. You would act differently in that situation as well.ShadowLurker wrote:Next, I'm not lurking now, and neither was luna, she was just inactive. The very point that me and luna have different actions shows that there are different playstyles so I see no idea why you brought that up in the first place other than to subtly discredit me.
Vote: Zindaras
Kelly's and SL's actions are only furthering me in my beliefs that they're both scum. I find the HackerHuck vote unsettling, and SL is being overaggressive, in my eyes.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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By checking her posts?HackerHuck wrote:So the cheer squad consists of me, Jules and Zindaras?
ShadowLurker - how do you know that Luna was just inactive and not lurking? The difference is intent and I cannot fathom how you would know Luna's intent.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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EBWOP: And the fact that she's replaced.ShadowLurker wrote:
By checking her posts?HackerHuck wrote:So the cheer squad consists of me, Jules and Zindaras?
ShadowLurker - how do you know that Luna was just inactive and not lurking? The difference is intent and I cannot fathom how you would know Luna's intent.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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And how did you come to that conclusion?Zindaras wrote:
Luna's playstyle is comparable to bird's. You would act differently in that situation as well.ShadowLurker wrote:Next, I'm not lurking now, and neither was luna, she was just inactive. The very point that me and luna have different actions shows that there are different playstyles so I see no idea why you brought that up in the first place other than to subtly discredit me.
Vote: Zindaras
Sorry: About the quad posting, edit them to 2 I guess if you want to mod? This will be my last post for now, I promise.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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ShadowLurker wrote:I can confirm luna receiving that artifact at the end of Night 1.Stewie wrote:Care to explain how so?
If Jules is in fact telling the truth, then it wouldn't surprize me if someone had the ear of the diviner.
Coron, please say ass. It would mean a lot to me.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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I'm pointing out Jules is telling the truth about her artifact. And yes, that's what it does, although I was also confused about the artifact and I asked the mod and he said I won't be receiving anymore information. I have not received any information about having to pass it on though.
I never found Jules suspicious and couldn't really find anything incriminating in your case against him. All I found was a bit of overreacting but I don't really consider overreacting a scumtell.
Mod:Were items assigned independently of alignment?:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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It says right in the first post some people don't have artifacts.HackerHuck wrote:
Wow, he has an item! That made me really believe he might not be scum. Weren't we all given artifacts? I really didn't want to make an assumption about his thought process, so I find it interesting that I get an FOS for asking someone for clarification.Kelly Chen wrote:
You need an answer to this question? He claimed an item between those two posts.HackerHuck wrote:What happened between these two posts? His claim came before the first one.CrashTextDummie wrote:I see no reason not to lynch this guy.CrashTextDummie wrote:Unvote
Have to think his claim over.FOS: HackerHuck
Can ShadowLurker confirm what the item does? I have some difficulty imagining that scum would start out with an information object. They wouldn't have incentive to pass it around, I don't think.
Anyway, from the description, this isn't an information item per se. It allows one to ask a question, but doesn't deliver information to the owner.
Along with Green Liquid, I strongly suggest that if there is a 'mouth' or similar artifact the current owner should keep mum.
Actually, I think the Mouth should claim if there is one. I'd rather know where the answers are coming from rather than assuming they're the truth.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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Are artifacts one shot? I was under the impression you could use them as much as you wanted to.Nightfall wrote:Hey guys, finished exams now, but christmas stuff has taken up time too.
I've read what I missed and am ready to post some more.
I DONT think that the person who has the mouth should claim.
I DO however want to bring up an idea.
Some/most/? of us started the night with an artifact. It is my understanding that we were then given a chance to use the artifact and then pass it on. How would people feal about a mass semi claim on the artifacts that we all had at the start. Ie. We would all claim the NAME and ONLY the name of the artifact we had at the start of the previous night, before we had passed it on. That way if anyone does have the mouth, we would at the very least know where it was. Also if any of us end up under the effects of some unknown artifact, we should be able to confirm where it came from. This will also help us to analyze any passing patterns. I played in a game called ROLESWAP mafia were the town did this and it helped considerably. In that game, I was scum and I lost my two partners because someone noticed a trend in our records. One final advantage I can see of this would be that it will let people know where artifacts have been, but wont inform the mafia of where they currently are, so they wont be able to target certain artifacts for nightkills.
Any opinions?
There are two problems with this,
1) Let's say someone has a cop artifact or something, mafia can still kill them to get rid of a result and then that artifact may be lost (not sure)
2) People still have roles in this game in addition to artifacts so we might not be able to trace everything.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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After rereading something I am STRONGLY AGAINST A MASSROLECLAIM and against the Mouth of the Diviner or whatever we may believe to exist to claim.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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The article MUST be passed on if used.Coron wrote:The question is not only whether he would get the artifact if he were scum, it was whether he would pass it on. It sort of WIFOMs but, there is a definate tangible advantage to scum from having this not circulate.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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Coron wrote:
Would you please address this SLNai wrote:You mean the Ear? There's no mention of 'must be passed on' in the general rules.Norinel wrote:If the description starts with "You may" means eachplayermay use that artifact once.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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The way part of my PM was phrased makes me think that you have to give it away.
Mod:If an artifact starts with "you may" after you use it, do you have to pass it?:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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May I ask how that's suspicious at all?HackerHuck wrote:I have also had some doubts about Stewie lately, but I'm still quite suspicious of ShadowLurker. His initial support for the "mouth" claiming was noted.
Also, you have not expressed ANY suspicion of me, but only of my predecessor and apparently, your reason for her was that she was lurking yet it was not lurking, but inactivity hence her replacement. In multiple posts you have reitereated you are still suspicious of me, yet you have not provided any reasons at all. This is a new reason from you and you have not explained how it's suspicious.
Unvote Vote HH:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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HackerHuck wrote:Nai’s behaviour at the time of the crash was really concerning to me. He seemed to be grasping at straws and trying to force some weak evidence on Coron. The aggressive push against Coron on seemingly weak evidence does not seem like pro-town play. However, I’ve got a weird “gut” feeling that he’s not scum. Luna has shown some similar behaviour although she was not pushing to the extent that Nai was. Her reluctance to unvote even at lynch -1 makes me still happy with my vote.HackerHuck wrote:I like how Jules is starting to play the Coron game a bit and stir the pot. I really don't like how Jules' vote was placed with no additional comment, so I agree with Stewie's vote.
That said, Luna's still scummier in my book and I'd put Nai almost to her level. Even though I don't like his playstyle here, I think the Coron wagon is a little too weak for the amount of pressure he's getting.HackerHuck wrote:I'm still happy with my vote on Luna. I don't like how she hopped on that Coron wagon to push him to lynch -1 and kept her vote there. She hasn't posted too much and recently threw out a few FOSes before disappearing again.
Coron has been pinging my scumdar a bit, but I chalk it up to his annoying playstyle. I'm not going to say I think he's likely town, but I'm not sure he's scum either. There are a couple of things I don't like - his using playstyle as an excuse and his defence of Jules was a bit overboard in my opinion. Since he likes to harp on others for defending someone else
After a reread, Jules seems a little scummy to me. Bandwagon hopping is too extreme of a description for his actions, but I feel like he's been jumping on bandwagons once they get a few others piled on first.HackerHuck wrote:In case you were just wondering why my vote was still on her, it's because I haven't felt anyone else to be scummier. See my post 188 for a brief rundown on how I feel about everyone.HackerHuck wrote:I have also had some doubts about Stewie lately, but I'm still quite suspicious of ShadowLurker. His initial support for the "mouth" claiming was noted.
I urge everybody to read these posts.
In these posts, he expressed suspicion of:
Me
Coron
Nai
Jules
Stewie
Yet his vote has been on luna the whole game and now me. To me, this just looks like someone being wishy washy, fence sitting, and making excuses to move his vote at any time. Your ONLY case against luna was that she put Coron at -1. I wonder how you were sure she's scum from that alone. Next, you repeatedly try to get people on me by saying things like "I AGREE, BUT IM STILL SUSPICIOUS OF SHADDOWLURKER BECAUSE HIS PREDECESSOR PUT CORON AT -1 OMG" over and over again. Lastly, you introduce this new bit of "evidence" recently and are refusing to answer my questions about it.
HH just COMPLETELY ignored my post. I asked him how asking the Mouth to claim was scummy, once again he says it's a "scummy proposal" without saying why. Then he goes on to say it's "very suspicious" once again, without saying why.HackerHuck wrote:You're confusing me with Zindaras. I wasn't voting Luna because she lurked. I'm sorry that you may have inherited a scum role, but you cannot get the slate wiped clean and undo Luna's actions.
It's going to take a while to gain my trust and making scummy proposals like you did will make it take even longer.
I find it very suspicious that anyone would specifically want the mouth to claim. Especially after you made sure to clarify that the artifact would be lost if the owner were killed that night.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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And if the mouth is giving the answers in the first place, how reliable can it be?Nai wrote:He actually did say why. Because if the owner of the Mouth is killed, the Mouth is gone, and no one can use it.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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Like I just said, in that case, how is the cop a cop at all, if he's replying to questions which he may or may not (probably the latter) know anything about? It seems for a way for him to manipulate the town if that was the case which once again, I don't think is.HackerHuck wrote:How did I ignore your post?
I explained that you = luna, so therefore any suspicion on her is also suspicion on you.
I reminded you that I wasn't voting for your predecessor for her lurking.
And I thought I explained how your support of the mouth claim quite clearly. Let's see...
"...the artifact would be lost if the owner were killed that night."
Isn't that kind of like asking the cop to claim so you know where the answers are coming from?:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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Are you dileberately misunderstanding me?Nai wrote:So what you are saying is, it would be better to out the mouth and then have him subsequently probably killed, on the off chance the scum have it and are using it to their advantage? (A, what, 3-ish in 12 chance?)
Anyway, if it DID work like that, the role would have no other use but to MISLEAD the town and scum would have no incentive to kill it.SL THREE times now wrote:I highly doubt that is the case:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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If someone had a Mouth of the Diviner and sent answers to the questions the Ear asked, which I said I don't think is the case then A) The answers would potentially mislead the town as how is the holder of the Mouth of the Diviner supposed to know and B) The scum have no incentive to kill the person holding it because it's that person's opinion.Nai wrote:SL: Where do you see that this isn't the case? Why do you think that either A. The item wouldn't be lost (which was confirmed by the mod) or B. The scum wouldn't kill it if it was town? It's like having a cop the scum doesn't kill. Rarely happens.
And what do you mean the role would mislead the town? Where do you get THAT?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your theory about the Mouth of the Diviner earlier.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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No I'm saying let's say the Ear of the Diviner asks a question like "Is X scum?"
The holder of the Mouth of the Diviner has no way of knowing if X is scum or not and could potentially mislead the town in his answer.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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And that involved the mouth claiming which is why I suggested it. But the point is moot now because I DON'T think that's how it works at all.GreenLiquid wrote:Ummm, then have the person with the mouth claim answer before person with the ear claims question. Then, if the question ends up falsified later on, the person who had the mouth gets lynched. Not hard.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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Ok, I misunderstood then, but I'm still doubting that's the way it works.Nai wrote:And I don't think the way you are suggesting, SL, is how it works. I think you ask the ear a question, and then the mouth tells you. I don't see how it would be that the person with the mouth gets the question and then answers, because who gets that answer? We've already gone over the fact that the Ear doesn't get answers. Directly, at least.
If you're going to try and imply something, come state it right now instead of pathetic attempts to poison the well like that. If you notice, I was referring to a mass roleclaim Nightfall suggested, and not at all what Kelly suggested. It has already been established I have the Ear, I'm not hiding anything about it. You yourself seem to be against the mass claim.HackerHuck wrote:Assume for a moment that the scum have only found out about the possibility of the mouth through what has been posted. Given that they only have speculation about what it does and whether it even exists, does it make sense for scum to assume that the item would more likely benefit town or scum?
It's kind of funny how this post:ShadowLurker wrote:After rereading something I am STRONGLY AGAINST A MASSROLECLAIM and against the Mouth of the Diviner or whatever we may believe to exist to claim.
came directly after this one:Kelly Chen wrote:If it delivers information to anybody, the scum would not want to use it, pass it around, or even admit it exists. It seems there's some potential to use it for misdirection, but then the town would still expect the item to be passed along.
Confirm Vote HH
Taking things out of context to slyly imply something is not my idea of protown behavior:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
:torch Tammy/Victor, Dan/Jordan-
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I'm pretty sure the Mouth of a Diviner claiming is a subset of a mass artifacts claim and you needing that ... is pretty much admitting you're taking things out of context.HackerHuck wrote:Wow, someone's a bit defensive.
I prefer to let others come to the same conclusion I did, rather than spoon feed them my ideas. I would think you should appreciate that route since if I took something out of context, others would be able to make that judgement for themselves.
Since you decided to deflect around what caught my eye, I'll trim down the quotes to highlight what gave me a chuckle.
Kelly Chen wrote:If it delivers information to anybody, the scum would not want to use it, pass it around, or even admit it exists.ShadowLurker wrote:After rereading something I am ... against the Mouth of the Diviner or whatever we may believe to exist to claim.
I don't know how it works but I'm doubting the Mouth and the Diviner if it exists and the Ear of the Diviner are related at all. That's all I'm saying, nothing more.Stewie wrote:I'll bite: how do you think it works?
This is bullshit and you know it, you're just looking for an excuse to jump on me again because now I have momentum.Zindaras wrote:Vote: ShadowLurker
Don't like the way he's jumping on HackerHuck. Coupled with my heavy suspicion regarding luna, that's enough for me to vote him.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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Zindaras wrote:*pouts*
I still say I'm right, but I guess I won't get anywhere with them today.
Pretty sure it IS because I have any sort of momentum going on me now, and Jules doesn't.Zindaras wrote:
Momentum? Hardly. I'm simply voting you because I have been suspicious of you all thread. You've always been pretty much my top suspect, and I believe that's more than clear enough. With Jules not getting lynched, I'm back to you.ShadowLurker wrote:This is bullshit and you know it, you're just looking for an excuse to jump on me again because now I have momentum.
There are no doubts in my mind that HackerHuck and Zindaras are scum together and I'd be happy with either one of them dying today.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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I'm not going to comment on whether it might've been role related or not but I'm going to comment as if it wasn't regardless of whether it is or not.GreenLiquid wrote:SL:can you think of any reason luna might have done this?
To me, it just seems like newbieness to me and with those posts, I have a hard time distinguishing from town or scum as frankly, experienced town AND experienced scum would NOT do it. Therefore, it's a newbie mistake in my opinion and not a scum or town tell. This is why I found Zindaras' constantly pushing on luna over those pages suspicious because luna was not around to defend herself and it seemed obvious to me it was just a newbie mistake and not a town or scum tell.
I got introduced to mafia on another site and everybody there are newbies. Almost all they do is bandwagon as to not draw suspicion to themselves and it's a null tell there as well.
I would also like to point you to this game: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4037 where luna was town and look at some of the posts she made:
"I've been sick, and people seem to think I'm lurking. I'm sorry I can't control when I'm in bed and am barely able to get up because I feel like crap. And Klebian, what was I supposed to say in response to your vote? It was a joke vote, and yet it seems that I'm scummy because I didn't get mad because of it?"
"For all previously mentioned reasons unvote, vote: ShadowLurker" (note: There was NO case against me seeing I was the Cop and I was put at -1 from this bandwagon)
so I think any pushing on luna for that post is a bit ridiculous.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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I understand not everything can be solved by saying you are new, so the case turns out to be, would scum be more likely to do this? Judging by Luna's past games which I have pointed out where she made similar posts, and the fact that no experienced players would do it regardless of alignment, makes me believe that you can't make too much of it. I'm not saying we should forget about it but we have 20 pages of posts, and the fact remains that I have already discussed that post in relation to other people and we can't base a whole lynch off 2 posts made early game. We need to move foward and things like that can be looked at later, but as far as Day 1 goes, I believe we analyzed them to the extent that any two line post can be analyzed to.
So far, if I had to guess a scum trio, it would be HackerHuck, Stewie, and Zindaras partly by scummy things they have done by themselves, and partly by process of elimination.
Hopefully that generates some discussion.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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Can you find evidence for this? Luna voted Coron, made an attempt (although I agree it was inadequate) to explain why she thought Coron was scummy, andZindaras wrote:Not only did perfect and luna cast very scummy votes, they also attempted to get off the bandwagon without arousing more suspicion. Some huge scumtells right there.stayed onCoron even when other's stopped voting him so your assertion she tried to jump off without attracting attention is incorrect. The only case against her seems to be putting Coron at -1 on page 2, and I don't see at all why scum would be more likely to do that than town.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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Sorry, don't believe it was considering she even specifically clarified she was voting Coron in her last post.Zindaras wrote:luna's unvote was lost during the crash.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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Her last post: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 743#472743
So it was a mod mistake just like where Jules was voting two people and the only post I see referencing luna and the crash is this:
You accusing her of vote hopping when she only made ONE non-random vote and stuck with it is blatantly false and you tried contriving more reasons just now by saying she hopped off the wagon in a way as to not arouse suspicion. You still have not answered my point about how it is a scumtell and not a nulltell and frankly, this is getting tiring because I'm not even arguing anymore, I'm just proving your accusations are obviously wrong and constantly requesting you to answer my point.Zindaras wrote:I'm still voting luna, because I still think she was vote-hopping very blatantly before the crash. She hasn't done anything to convince me otherwise.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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I would like to know since when is "aggresiveness" or "overdefensiveness" a scumtell as I'm tired of being accused of it in all my games because frankly IMO, they aren't. I'm also curious as to how one post could put luna at 80 while any subsequent posts by anybody can barely change that #.
I disagree.GreenLiquid wrote:If you're a vanilla townie, the fact that you started with an artifact IS your role. I'm not sure how hard that is to comprehend.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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Haven't received my prod yet but I have already stated where I stand.
I believe HackerHuck and Zindaras are scum and if I had to make a third choice right now, I'd say Machiavellian-Mafia.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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luna is a she, please refer to her actions as "she" and mine as "he" so that I may discern them. I see no comments on me so I don't see how I can defend against anything. I have posted a game where she also put someone at -1 with no reasoning and was town so I don't see how that can be that big of a scumtell if one at all against her.GreenLiquid wrote:LUNA/SL
Luna has done some pretty scummy stuff, but isn't going to be putting Jules to shame anytime soon. The biggest offense on the list is placing a very weak bandwagon at lynch minus one on Page 2. Other transgressions include not backing himself up and not contributing. I think people may be making a little too big of a deal of the lynch -1 thing, even though it is extremely scummy.
OVERALL:Pretty scummy. Someone that needs to have an eye on them over the remainder of the game.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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Are people even looking at what Zindaras is saying? Zindaras believes putting someone at -1 makes them have an 80% chance of being scum. Even the cream of the crop players aren't 80% correct in finding scum. If you actually consider his arguments for a second and his disregarding of any contribution luna's replacement is making makes his case silly.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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Are you freaking kidding me? This is not the first time I have commented on this, please read my posts before you even try to discredit me.HackerHuck wrote:This also sounds like someone trying to sweep their predecessor's scummy behaviour under the rug, flavored with a little OMGUS... You should be happy he's redirecting his energies to someone else.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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On Nai's claim: It doesn't make me go either way. I feel it could be scum, could be town. Therefore, it means I fall back on my read on him, which is most likely town by process of elimination.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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No, Post 1 says if it starts with "You may" it's one use.Nai wrote:Erm... Guys? All artifacts are one-time use for each person. Post 1 says this.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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Artifacts are not one use period if it does not start with "You may" or "Once in the game."Nai wrote:I specifically said "For each person". There's also one use wonders. Mine specifically says it's too heavy to pass, since it's supposedly a huge chest.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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What's the point of asking him if you're going to give him the answer in parentheses?Nightfall wrote:What word does it use to describe the holder's death? (ie. die):sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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Well don't put "that is die" in the post then, it ruins the point.Nightfall wrote:He's also said that the item would get passed on if the holder was "killed"...
I wanted to know if that was his choice of wording or the item's/mod's.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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The Eye of the Diviner is a Cop, and I got that M-M is town, however, I was unable to leave my tent so I could not pass it. However, I will pass it tonight.
Anyway,Vote Zindaras.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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I did not do anything with the ear last night.Nightfall wrote:I have something to say, but first I need three questions answered.
The person that had the ear - What did you ask it?
Shadow - Why did you ask about MM (Stewies Replacement?) when Jules already did that night 1?
Everyone - Does anyone else have an artifact with the words "of the Diviner" in it's name?
I asked about MM because I forgot Jules had asked about it, MM was the 2nd scummiest in my opinion although pretty distant from Zindaras so I wanted to see if my read on him was accurate, and Jules had also received no answer if you remember.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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I don't see how I can elaborate further.Nightfall wrote:Why?
1) Last night, I forgot Jules used the ear on MM, I knew I wasn't using the Ear tonight as soon as I replaced in. When you brought it up this morning, I remembered that he received no result and am pointing out that it was unreliable anyway.Nightfall wrote:1) So you forgot that Jules asked the ear about MM, but you remembered that he got no answer?
2) What did you take the fact that Jules didnt (theoretically) recieve an answer to mean?
2) I take the fact that he didn't receive an answer to mean that he didn't receive an answer from the mod.
I don't like this quesiton either. Both claimed Diviner artifacts so far have been coppish roles and it feels like outguessing the mod at best.Nightfall wrote:I'll rephrase, how many people here STARTED the game with an artifact with the words "of the diviner" in the name? Depending on the answer I get from this, I'm thinking I could in good confidence point out at least one scum.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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1) And the reason is obvious, read the 2nd post Nightfall.
2) The artifact has NO indication of that whatsoever, I don't recall him claiming that either. I don't buy it.
3) It looks like you're looking for further investigative roles.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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... I used the eye of the diviner ...GreenLiquid wrote:Why has SL yet to explain why he didn't use his artifact last night?
And the truth of me putting MM second is not any mistype or whatever, I will admit that I was not paying too much attention in that post and haven't been in all of my games lately. *shrug* Make of it what you will.
Oh and I obviously think MM is pretty much protown although he would've been my 2nd scummiest canindate today ignoring the investigation.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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As the town would obviously let me slide by claiming a cop artifact and not demonstrating it every single night.Kelly Chen wrote:Well, if the town decided to let you go only on that reasoning, you'd (as scum) just refuse to pass it.:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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I started with the Eye and was passed the Ear. luna did not do anything the 1st night.Nightfall wrote:whoah, brain freeze there... of course you didnt have the eye, nevermind...
Shadow, did the eye get passed to you? or did you have it from before?:sadtorch Ken Hoang, A.D/Fuzzie, Cameron Ferris, Taj Johnson-George, Annie Duke, Patti Blagojevich, Maria/Tiffany :sadtorch
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