Mini 493: Methodical Mafia - Game Over!
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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I'm going to try something new here. Instead of doing a massive IH-post with questions and quotes for everyone, I'm going to be pointing out specific exchanges in different posts.
As a general overview, all of LML and BMQs' posts have struck me as scummy in some way or another, and most of Flay's have as well.
I'm first going to take a look at the following
Bmq makes his first post in the thread with a lengthy explanation of all things that were already discussed at large. LML's plan was already discarded at this point, even by LML himself. Why, then, does BMQ feel the need to elaborate so much on why the plan won't work? His explanation later (I will get to it) states jokingly that he doesn't actually read the posts before. Well, even if he skimmed the rest of the thread, he would have noticed LML discard his own idea. His conclusion doesn't really put the plan into any new perspective. His last sentence isn't even an original comment: that argument was already made by Xdaamno.
Speaking of Xdaamno, In post 37 he points out just what I had in my notes. And how does BMQ reply?
If that's true, as I pointed out earlier, he still should have known that even LML didn't support his own plan (call it mindgames or not, debating the validity of it doesn't really make sense).You think I read what other people post?
If that's not true, well, I think restating just what other players have said and not even adding any sort of suspicion is scummy.
I think Xdaamno response to this is even more bizarre:Oh, in that case, well done!
Notice how quickly he drops the issue, and with a wink smiley. This is especially scummy considering how disappointing BMQ's excuse is.
Also note: BMQ stole the "there may be no vigs in this setup" argument from Xdaamno in the first place.
It does not surprise me then that BMQ posts exactly what he did in his first post for his third post, which is another post that only elaborates on what others have said, adds nothing new, and does not express any sort of suspicion towards anyone.
So, therefore:
Fos BMQ
Fos Xdaamno
If we could vote, I would totally be voting BMQ, but I'm not sure what stoofer would do. :[SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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Simenon Entitled
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That's not the point. Discussing it was okay, but using the same argumentBrianMcQueso wrote:In fact, had I not commented on LML's strategy, would I be targeted and persecuted for "ignoring" it and not contributing to the topic of discussion? Am I to be punished simply because others were able to speak on a subject before I was able to?at lengththat another player had used. If you had said "QFT!" or "I agree with this because of this this and this" and then had moved on, sure, that would be okay, but your post seemed to be explaining the exact same argument that was used before, except with excessive elaboration. That I find scummy.
What exactly have you contributed? None of your posts with perhaps the exception of this have actually contributed anything new to the game.And at least I contributed to some extent rather than lurked.
I fail to see how you added anything new to the topic on both of those issues, so no, I did not ignore them. As far as me ignoring strategy, I will get to game strategy once I'm done with basic scummy posts.You have also disregarded my discussion on night choice list strategy and ignored the topic yourself.SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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Simenon Entitled
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Looking back, there really isn't much more as far as scumminess for me to comment on. I thought I had a lot of wishy washy posts, but the fact that we are playing a day where we don't actually need to kill anybody, wishy-washiness isn't really a scumtell. The only thing that has really struck me as peculiar is LML's post:
I have no clue where the wording of this is coming from. It's obviously a dramatic change of tone, but I don't understand why LML felt the need to employ this kind of language. If he's attempting to sound like this was a first reaction, I think it's pretty obviously artificial.LML wrote:Hey jackass! I said I could watch MYSELF once. Doofus. You have totally blipped my scumdar. (AKA, I could watch all others)
And then Flay's response of "Speak English or Die, Flay" seems a bit planned as well.
I will refresh my memory on the strategic arguments now. However, I think someone should point out that different roles need different strategies, and generalizations don't really work this game (and it's obviously not good to discuss certain power roles unless it can produce a clear benefit).SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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"Vigilante" is also the classic SK claim, and I'm not sure how certain a gambit it is.Then again, a one-shot seems sort of odd for this game as well, so I'd be content with a vig-lynch target of LML.
I'm willing to bet Flay = skLoudmouthLee - Nightwatchman - Randomly slain night 1SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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That's because you weren't there, silly. Not much use wagoning someone who isn't going to post.Simenon would be a close second choice, if the bandwagon leans that way, for the already addressed SK theory and paradoxically for the fact that he dropped my wagon yesterday, after lobbying so hard for it on previous pages.
lolI think this theory that I'm the SK because I mentioned the "SKs claim Vigilante" metagame is absurd. Give me a *little* credit for not being completely transparent, will you?? But latching onto that is opportunistic and counterproductive in my view.
1. I assume you think it's conterproductive because I was on it and you said it.
2. Quoting text from three weeks ago doesn't sound very opportunistic. I assume you think it's opportunistic because I was on it and you said it.
3. I felt I was making a valid point and pursuing said valid point. Disagreeing with it is fine, but it's not anti town.SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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Simenon Entitled
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The game dies if we are all expecting to hear from a player that won't show up. Even if the absense is temporary, it's still reason to back off.Mr. Flay wrote: I can't say as I understand that logic. I said when I was getting back in town, I'd started to respond already, and it's not like I was going to disappear/be replaced...
Of course I see it as "counterproductive" to bandwagon me when I know my alignment, but that's unprovable to anyone else.
That's silly. A wagon on anyone is productive.
The word opportunistic implies a mafia member seized the chance attack something.I'm not clear what happened with the copy-paste error in the end of your sentence, but since the statement was made three weeks ago, why wouldn't it be "opportunistic" to make a case based on it when actual voting started?SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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This is a good reason why there should be more votes on BMQ.BrianMcQueso wrote:I suspect you = I am scummy. Typical flawed logic.
This really is quite uneccessary. What you really are saying is that lurking in plain site is scummy. Which is not what I'm doing.Let's say I believe Player X is scummy, for whatever reason. But going over what Player X has posted, there's very little evidence to help my case and prove that X is being shady. Convenient, eh? The more you post, the easier it is for people to get a read on you and determine if you are pro-town, and the scum have an interest in not letting players get a read on them. All in all, posting short posts without any relevant information (or "lurking", if you will) is typical scum behavior.
I simply don't communicate in thirty-line posts. I'm not verbose. A while ago, I tried to be verbose. I failed miserably. I think I can make good, decent posts with only using one line, so I'll stick to that, thank you. That and bandwagoning.
Your vote doesn't really make much sense either.
Please die.SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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Simenon Entitled
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I'll reply to those soon glrok.
Come now. I didn't write that originally, and I have no idea where you got that from the text I wrote. It was pretty obviously a leap.BrianMcQueso wrote:
If a player finds you suspicious, that does not necessarily make them scum.
Have you read your posts?
I should hope. I wrote them.
You have a selective memory.We have such all-star posts as "Erm", "/clap", and "Flay wagon please".
I think "flay wagon please" was a good post that accomplished something. "Erm" managed to get Glrok to reply. So you haven't convinced me.
This isn't fair.I'm not asking you to write essays, I'm just looking for a little thought.SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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Simenon Entitled
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I think any wagon is productive.Glork wrote:Actually, Sim, if you think that the wagon has been productive, I want you to explain exactly why you think it has been productive.
I think distad is town. My metagame on ergo is that he posts very long posts infrequently as town, but I don't think my metagame is solid enough. Otherwise I'd say he's town as well.Who on the wagon do you think is protown?
Who on the wagon do you think is scum?
I'm alarmed by the lack of comment. You look okay. CES looked okay. I'm disappointed elsewhere.What do you think of the people off-wagon who have commented on BMQ?
It's eitherWhat do you think of the people who have posted but have not commented on BMQ and/or his bandwagon?
1. too soon to tell right now (I have a suspicion there are players who haven't had the chance to comment but will)
2. distressing
Either way I like my vote.SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Let me clarify this. Some won't have this great activity. They should pick a bandwagon and stick with it. However, I have activity, therefore I can afford to make temporary votes. I laid this out in the discussed post.Simenon wrote:BMQ- Don't be dense. I said I would be active, so I could afford to keep this vote temporary just in case we can't get a lynch.
Also, voting me without a wagon is antitown, to be honest.
ur still dense lolSEND THE VECTOIDS-
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Simenon Entitled
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You accused me of trying to have it both ways.BrianMcQueso wrote:
Yes, you did stick around, so you could afford to make temporary votes. But what if you just disappeared? I'm calling you out on it so you can't just get away with hiding and letting your vote ride. Your vote, after all, was the necessary third vote to get me deadline-lynched.
Also, yes, it was the necessary third vote. That's kind of the point.
I would love us to continue our discussion on why you're scum and why I'm not.whut hav i been dodgin
You actually haven't responded to any of the reasons I originally voted you for. If you read my posts, I actually said my vote was a continuation of yesterday, and you just posted to attack me.Logical fallacies, mostly. A lot of his accusations against me don't have sound reasoning behind them. It makes me think he's trying too hard to get me lynched.I did not bring any new points to the table when I voted BMQ.
BMQ scum, calling it here. Feel free to embarrass me once the game ends.[/b]SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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Simenon Entitled
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Kind words.BrianMcQueso wrote: You're not as brilliant as you think you are.
btw, I don't think I'm a good scumhunter particularly. I just think I'm right.
I felt it was scummy then. I wasn't satisfied that day by your response. Part of my reason for calling you scum is that frankly you seem like you know it feels right to attack me, but you can't seem to find a reason why. The reasons you have settled with were mediocre at best (short posts), and this latest one makes no sense. I'm feeling it was the product of lack of thought, probably because you're scum, and therefore you only really need to throw out words like "logical fallacies" without checking if they actually stick.Sim, if my memory serves me right, you accused me of not contributing any new information in my first post, and merely repeating what others said. Bearing in mind that everyone in the game had posted before I did, is it really such a lynchworth offense? Has it really snowballed that greatly? Or is there something I'm missing?SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Thou shalt not go fishing!! D:<
UnvoteAsking for the reason that you hold a particular opinion is not fishing. Calling it fishing is dropping an unnecessary breadcrumb. If you're a power role trying to stay hidden you could at least try to cover it with some logic - "because I said so" is hardly subtle.Vote Ergo
I feel dumb.
The inconsistency bit is also a point.SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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Simenon Entitled
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I had just read that bit, actually, so glrok's post was new to me.
Horrible excuse, but that's just it.
Whether I pressed him on it or not, you can be sure that it would be seen by everyone who was paying attention in the slightest.
If it is a breadcrumb for a power role, well, nobody saw it when glrok originally said "don't consider voting bmq".
If it's not a breadcrumb, it just shows how serious glrok is about not lynching bmq, so there is something that both of us aren't seeing and glrok doesn't want to tell anyway. As you said, he's a good player, so he must have found something good.
I would push you, but "don't vote for him" and "don't vote for me" are quite different imho.Would you buy it if I'd just said "don't vote for me, but I can't tell you why"?SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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Simenon Entitled
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If it's that good then now is the time to tell us all what it is. Holding onto it while BMQ is lynched isn't going to do the town a lick of good. That was the point of my original question.
In that very same quotation, I said that he's glrok, he has a reason not to share it with us.
Perhaps he's spotted a power role in BMQ. That's a suggestion. There may be others that are anti town. I trust glrok, mostly because I think glrok is very very town.SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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I never fail to respond to a case against me.Erg0 wrote:Not surprisingly, I agree. Might as well make it official, though I'm almost certainly pissing in the wind here.
Vote: Simenon
I think this has been pretty well explored, and in re-reading it looks to me like he's just pointed fingers elsewhere until a better target to presented itself, rather than responding to the case against him.
whoops try again plz.SEND THE VECTOIDS-
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