Mini 546: House Mafia - Game Over
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TrustGossip Goon
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;P Then I believe my testimony would incite an OBJECTION! not a vote.vollkan wrote:Vote: Trustgossip
Every Phoenix Wright game I have played (the first 2) isTrustgossip wrote: ((Sorry for delay, been playing Phoenix Wright constantly for the last few days. I like to read up on tort law when I'm not devouring biochemistry))criminallaw, not tort law. Not only are you clearly concocting an outrageous lie, but the lie involves hiding something criminal.
Vote: Dean Harperfor using Xeno's Paradox logic.Compcrack
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Unvote
Originally I was going to abstain from using teams whatsoever in my analysis and ultimately judgment of others in this game. Yet I am seeing signs that others do not agree with this philosophy so forgive me if I find that getting a general consensus on whether teams should be an influence is a higher priority than using my vote to put "pressure" on someone.
I am uncomfortable with the feeling that two people of equal suspicion, held in the mind, will be unbalanced simply because their name is the same color on a list as yours. I was absent for the team-choosing portion but here are some of my general thoughts:
I believe how the two "team-leaders" stepped up to rally players was an action borne of their personalities and are independent of whether they're town or scum. Pooky's nature is to lead a group of people (see Battle Royale) in courses of action. Vollkan is an excellent analyzer of behavior in both town and scum roles.
I have some problems with armix in his vacillation of whether or not he wanted to bandwagon me. I don't understand if it was because we were in "random voting" (rephrased as OMG LIKE LETZ GO CRAZY W/VOTING WHILE WE STILL CAN) or how he actually is.
I have some problems with Dean Harper only because page three is mostly full of off-topic junk from him. However, it would be hypocritical for me to criticize this short-run behavior from him when I myself don't agree with the logic behind his vote for me for apparently exhibiting behavior when I actually wasn't here/aware of being selected for this game.
I have some problems with Adel because of team-based bandwagoning. I'm not sure if my personal sentiments effect a universal flaw/scumtell/whatever because I know myself to currently:
A. not agree with team-based voting
B. not a member of those who think vote-hopping without merit to bandwagon is effective
Thus,FOS: armix, Dean, AdelCompcrack
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TrustGossip Goon
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I am not currently voting Dean, myunvotewas at the top of my post. If I am in error please tell me.
In response to curious: I do not have a problem with Pooky's "we".
Could you explain your issue with it? Or is it one of those nitty little feelings you get in the bottom of your gut?
With regards to erg0: My apologies but Candy Mafia is probably the worst meta representation of me ever for certain reasons. However, as I am basing my judgment of Pooky mostly on playing Battle Royale with him, I cannot say that one game has no bearing on character.Compcrack
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TrustGossip Goon
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{present evidence}
TAKE THAT!!!
Explain to me why you like this wagon on me.Adel wrote:Pooky was the first to attract others, Volkans was the first to fill... but I guess I see your point. I still like the wagon I'm on though, so I won't unvote.
According to your only argument, the "first" team is more likely to contain scum. I take it this means Pooky's team. Unfortunately, I'm the only person who did not get to choose his own team but was instead shuffled into the team with the open spot because I was away from the site for a while. So by your vote staying on me I take it you want information regarding my... non-commitment to a team? Even though this is counterintuitive to the only justification of your bandwagoning?Compcrack
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TrustGossip Goon
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I really don't know what to make of the game for the past few pages. I'm used to people presenting long, thorough, and carefully conceived arguments for the points they are trying to state. Regardless, I'll present what I've managed to pick out that speaks to me.
TheJiveMachine: Sorry, you aren't jiving to me. You haven't contributed any notable arguments, or arguments in general. I feel it's nothing short of a totality of apathy in your general direction. I mean really, the game is all about communication. Just Communication (Gundam Wing ^_^).
FOS: TheJiveMachine
shaft.ed: Pooky's psuedo haiku has a point. What's with the about face on pressing Adel? While I disagree with her methods at least she's encouraged discussion from our less represented participants. You're being a lil' shiiiiiifty.
FOS: shaft.ed
vollkan: teeheehee, it's just a random jokey thing! Then why are you still voting me? *frowny* I hope there is a higher purpose. Also what's the deal with just having a little aside conversation with Dean for like three pages? This isn't Shakespeare.
IGMEOY: vollkan
Pooky: You're "helpful" in the way that you give me almost no dialogue to actually analyze. Friend or foe? Will you take the money, or will we split it?
Dean and Erg0: Don't really understand the lover's quarrel, but would like more information besides your inability to communicate to each other apparently. It's Just Communication.
curious: Curiouser and curiouser! I don't really see how your questioning of Pooky is anyway equivalent to Adel's. Perhaps it was a "bubbling" affect, but I think you're the only person who focused so much on two letters. But your notation of Armix's consistent agreement with Adel seems valid.
Armix: Still don't undersand, and now with percentages? Don't you know that 83% of the world's statistics are just made up? Please clarify your "findings"
IGMEOY: armix
TG's FOSmeter!
Dean: xoo
Vollkan: ooo
Curious: ooo
Shaft.ed: xoo
Jive: xoo
Erg0: ooo
Pooky: ooo
Adel: xoo
Armix: xooCompcrack
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So you suspect Adel?armlx wrote:One scum wont vote for the other even when he's digging his own grave, but tries to look suspicious of him to distance himself. How cute.
It's such a fricking rough dilemma to decided which one we should hang up first. There's more room for JiveMachine to build on and maybe be (very lurky, very scummy) town, but the way shaft.ed is squirming is so funny I almost want to watch more of it.
Nah
Unvote, Vote shaft.ed
My my my. We now have a rodeo.Compcrack
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TrustGossip Goon
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To vollkan: I have an ideological inclination against random wagoning. In addition, I thought her attitude was poor, but of course that was a ploy to generate antagonism and fish out scum, or so some have conjectured.
To Erg0: I also still have some problems with Dean, but I tend to be very careful with my voting. Plus a few players are about equal with Dean in terms of suspicion.Compcrack
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TrustGossip Goon
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I guess my "give peace a chance" idealism was doomed to be futile. Yet even though this new mechanic is meant to divide us, our only option is to unite. With two people gone today and then one more at night, a double mislynch spells a very unpleasant Day Two.
Upon rereads, it would be prudent to give assessments on every player, not just those from the five you have to choose from for a lynch. Sorry for the recent inactivity but college is slamming me from the get-go. Here are some quick (unedited) thoughts about the recent turns of events:
Changes in levels of perceived scuminess since my last post (not the Heath Ledger one, that didn't count)
Adel: huge drop, lots of pro-town play since his early-game vote-hopping gambit.
armix: neutral, can't get a good read, but since his vote connection with Adel was scummy when Adel seemed scummy, the same applies for the current game where Adel feels very town.
curious: slight increase, don't understand your hunches much at all. Presence of both hunch logic and actual logic is slightly disarming.
vollkan: he always seems town. I don't know the weight of that statement.
shaft.ed: sinusoidal wave, currently moderately town.
Erg0: ambiguous, since he was inactive and I was also inactive, it would seem hypocritical for me to raise his scum level. I was taught that inactivity was a nulltell, but it always seems more scummy than it is.
Pooky: increase, seemed to be very insistent on using his opinions to push for a shaft.ed lynch, but the examples cited fall though upon deduction.
TheJiveMachine: even worse than before. I don't know what's going on with you, but I don't think you have the right to cop a defeatist attitude when you haven't done much of anything to help the town root out scum.
Dean: still got bad vibes. Dean is foremost reason why I kept Erg0 as ambiguous, as Erg0 was another that supported the Dean wagon. I just get bad feelings about comments that are supposed to help but don't really give any new angles or aspects on already established arguments. I would really like him to weigh in on everything that has happened, along with Erg0.
As far as my vote goes. I've already stated that I'm very careful with it. That being said, for the following reasons:
1. Not giving opinions on fellow players.
2. Constantly playing the defensive when not being inactive
3. Giving up when it's obvious there is still discussion to be had
vote: TheJiveMachine
For the record, although my vote tends to be very sticky, this is my suspicion list to all applicable players.
Jive
curious
shaft.ed - vollkan
AdelCompcrack
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Mini 518 is irrelevant.curiouskarmadog wrote:
well it was pretty easy having "hunches" when you were the cop.Adel wrote:
mini 518 demonstrated how astute ckd cn be as town, and I figure that if he is scum than his hunch may just be a scum-distancing technique.shaft.ed wrote:Adel I must admit I'm intrigued. I haven't seen you mention armlx outside of a mild back and forth with CKD.Compcrack
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That was about a page after you voted, and after Jive committed some egregious breaches of "town-play". I still don't really understand why you're even making these arguments though, Adel isn't exactly your direct competition of a lynch candidate. Are you trying to say I trust him too much?armlx wrote:
(In reference to following me on wagons)Adel wrote:I wasn't.
There's that. Then there's the post where Adel says "It's all in you mind" and follows my vote. The one time I was on a wagon after Adel was in response to that person's response to the wagon (JiveMachine, responded to 2 votes with D=....) rather than this direct barnacling.Adel wrote:
I like those reason -- much better than my current ones.armlx wrote:Actually, Trust, I'm fairly sure non-commitment is the most scummy thing you can do.
However, my sick reads tell me you aren't scum. Neither is Ergo.
Unvote
Guess I'll do this
Vote curiouskarmadog
Smacking Pooky too hard for the wrong reasons. Could be double scum tell (makes valid arguement vs other scum that isn't enough to get him lynched, good set up for both), rather lynch him and find out.
unvote, vote:curiouskarmadog
I really wish Jive didn't just give up. It's really not all over, giving a defense at least is pro-town, even if you do eventually get lynched. Despite what you'd think, your input would help us Jive.
AlsoMod:can we get a prod for Dean?
Unvote: TheJiveMachineas a peace offering. Now please just... say something.
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Good freaking posting If I was on your team, I would also definitely wait until Dean was replaced. Nice catch on Erg0. Even though I have voiced my opinions on Dean, there have been much better targets and Erg0 has hardly weighed in upon that matter.shaft.ed wrote:OK I got a re-skim in.
Overall I would rank the five players from scummy to townie as:
1) armlx
1) Pooky
3) Erg0
4) Dean
5) TG
armlx: Posted the most content (wordwise) of his team outside of maybe TG. But had a few minor tells early in the day. Like reluctance to vote someone to 3 but happy to jump on as a second vote. Then proceeded to make a pretty firm declaration of people's alignments before there was really any discernable evidence to move on. Didn't really explain this too well to vollkan. Also joined in with Pooky in fanning the flames while I was first in line to be lynched.
Pooky: I rank him at the top with armlx in level of scuminess but for different reasons. Has posted very little content to be caught up on, so unsurprisingly no glaring issues with his posts. He has significantly fanned the flames against me and other players without adding anything to the argument. Also debated with Vollkan about actually needing a reason to lynch someone. This is crazy in my mind.
Erg0: Erg0 and Dean both have hardly anything in the way of posting. I only rank Erg0 above Dean because Erg0 was quite active in the early game but seemed to take a back seat once strong bandwagons became apparent. To me this is scummier than just lurking the whole game as Dean did.
Dean: Chronic lurker. Very little content to go on. Would vie for a replacement before a lynch.
TG: One of the two actual contributors of team L-Unit. Has put his opinions on the line and backed them up much better than his other teamates. Seems to actually be scum hunting instead of going for the path of least resistance.
All tolled I'd be happy today with either a Pooky or armlx lynch. I'd like to let vollkan weigh in before I register a vote for armlx. Also want to note that in a couple hours I'll be away from the internets until likely Monday so I'm sorry if this holds the game up any.Compcrack
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TrustGossip Goon
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Faking the forgetting of a changed game mechanic is a little too high level of a gambit for me personally.
To Pooky: By nightless you mean the scum have no nightkill, correct? Also, I can see your reasonings for vollkan as I've also noticed a significant departure from his usual play, but I have many more issues with Jive and curious at the moment.
Speaking of which,
Vote: curiouskarmadog
I would like you to tell me how you play based on hunches, and also why you felt the need to put words in Jive's mouth before putting him at L-2 prior to the final diagnostic.
Same with armix. Why did you feel the need to put Jive at L-1?Compcrack
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TrustGossip Goon
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I am saying that I would think you'd like to draw more information out of Jive before voting him and that it seemed unusual to me that you would vote without asking for discussion of the matter from other players.
If this meta read of you is inaccurate please correct me.
It also means I have a healthy suspicion of you because you always seem to play pro-town no matter the alignment, and the fact that you WEREN'T one of primary contributor of good discussion worried me.
Basically I'm saying that I am disappointed :/
Sorry.Compcrack
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You state the previous not as questions to Jive, but not as any kind of provable statement on Jive's intentions. So what are they?curiouskarmadog wrote:so I am scummy because I INFORMED YOU that my vote was based on a hunch? or am I scummy because at the moment I HAVE NOT jumped on the current leaders (or BWs) of those "acting scummy"?
I think they are words that are put in other people's mouths.
Otherwise there's no real reason to say such things when the person in question is slowly dying down and losing interest and becomes admissive of his own fate and blah blah blah.Compcrack
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Just because you feel you've toppled one of my points does not defeat the entire argument. That would be a fallacy and I know you'd nevercuriouskarmadog wrote:
that is a stretch..he said I was scummy for voting on a hunch...I wanted to know why...both were in the form of a question, because I was wanted information from him which is how we form a request (in a question)...noting your bull shit here.TrustGossip wrote:
You state the previous not as questions to Jive, but not as any kind of provable statement on Jive's intentions. So what are they?curiouskarmadog wrote:so I am scummy because I INFORMED YOU that my vote was based on a hunch? or am I scummy because at the moment I HAVE NOT jumped on the current leaders (or BWs) of those "acting scummy"?
I think they are words that are put in other people's mouths.
Otherwise there's no real reason to say such things when the person in question is slowly dying down and losing interest and becomes admissive of his own fate and blah blah blah.intentionallystrawman, because that would just bescummynow wouldn't it?
It still stands that your hunch-based voting was completely irrelevant and unhelpful. Your only vote of any merit was the one on Jive Machine, and that was only after three other people had already leveled good arguments and voted him already. You cannot escape inquisition by dismissing everything I say as bullshit.
<3Compcrack
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I hope people do not take offense to this, but I am completely swooning over Pooky and Adel. There's a reason why Adel is crystalline logic and Pooky just came through with the resolution of an after-school special. I am held under their sway not because of charisma, but by the involiable stuff of credibility. They make complete and perfect sense and are actually playing the game.
A note to curious: I tend to respond stronger than intended when I find cussing in my general direction. It is a simple matter of reciprocation. My vote to you probably comes off harsher than it seems as I tend to put a lot of weight on my voting, but given the current situation it is the only choice other than unvoting. And voting you gives more information than not voting you.
Instead of attacking my argument and OMGUSing my credibility, you could perhaps give your opinions on everyone else in the game? Does that seem unreasonable?Compcrack
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For once I tend to agree with Pooky.
His post feels a little barnacle-y, in addition he was barnacle-y to Adel's playstyle. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't two barnacles make a scum?
Unvote
Heavy FOS: armix
As in, once I hear an update on all the lurkers and if they aren't horrendously suspicious...
*bang*Compcrack
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In response to shaft.ed: I'm gay, what can I say?
Ok seriously though, just because I'm overexcited that people are actually playing the game well doesn't make me a brownnoser.
In addition, what about vollkan is making him a "great scumhunter" as you say? Sure Pooky's argument about his numbers is kind of weak (and a little contrivedMinor FOS: Pooky) His major caveat in this game is his case against TheJiveMachine, who was the most obvious/weakest target at the time.
I'm sorry vollkan, but I hold you up to a more rigorous amount of inquiry. It's only because you behave consistently pro-town regardless of alignment. I know I am perpetrating the Too Townie fallacy to an extent, but I can't help being wary. If you have an FBI investigator that is fantastic at what he does, upon defectionno one would ever know.
That being said, I think a vollkan lynch is ill-advised at this stage in the game.
In addition:A Partial Analysis of Scum-Hunting Strategies Based on Observation and Self-Admission.
Pooky: jabbing at who he believes is "so scum". Observes general reactions. Changes to building a case against vollkan within the last few pages.
armix: "acting as scummy as possible" - this entails the early rally against Pooky and the non-vote against myself. Uses numbers early, tries to establish that Erg0 and I are "safes". Serves as primary jumping board for Adel's second vote gambits. L-1 of Jive proves catalyst for beginning of diagnostic period.
vollkan: Three major periods - 1. Push of a Jive lynch, 2. Continued and prolonged case/argument against Pooky, 3. Reanalysis of all players in the game due to change in the game mechanic.
shaft.ed: Upon Adel/Pooky/armix pressure he responds with 183, enough for Adel to unvote. vollkan also responds positively to this response. Key player along with vollkan and Adel in making Pooky open up. As the heat has died down so has shaft.ed's activity until just now.
Erg0: no recent developments (bad). Has only really ever mentally sparred with Adel and pushed for a Dean wagon.
Adel: long and varied list o- attempt at consolidating: Bandwagons nearly everyone, frequently piggybacking off armix. Strategy changes mid-game as she uses this information to begin the flurry of activity upon Jive and shaft.ed. Currently voting armix.
curious: hunch votes on Pooky and armix. Votes Jive after a wagon is well-established already. Returns to armix vote during diagnostic period.
Dean: absolutely nothing.
TheJiveMachine: no notable hunting, extremely wishy-washy (upon Adel's disapproval of his FOS, he upgrades to a vote soon after).
TrustGossip's current thoughts:
armix (& Adel): Your play was actually pretty decent before your L-1. I'd would like you to return to that level of boldness, as in, what are your current opinions on the rest of the group. I realize there is an urge to pander simply because you are at L-2, but I believe this is important. Also, am I supposed to believe your initial panic post was an overemphasis on your early-game actions? Because your "barning of Pooky and non-vote on TG" is really not equivalent to Adel's actions. I would also like Adel to respond to my partial deconstruction of her argument. In reality it was you who barnacled to curious after armix, and his only barnacling of you was in your wagon against Jive but that was onlyaftercurious wagoned.
curious: Where is that opinion post that you promised?
To everyone on NLU: I would encourage a few pressure votes against Erg0 and Dean, Erg0 especially because he seems to be extremely active in other games, so his lack of response here is negligent (criminal or otherwise has yet to be determined).Compcrack
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Apologies, I did not know what a PbP was. Take your time.curiouskarmadog wrote:
you havent, this game is in line to do a PbP, however, there are two games in front of this one that I either promised a read (because I replaced in) or a reread..I will get to it when I can...armlx wrote:Just what makes you so sure? I'm actually 90% sure you have posted no more reason than your "hunch", unless I missed it.Compcrack
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Did I imply anything negative about vollkan?shaft.ed wrote:TG wrote:Vote: TheJiveMachine
This doesn't read as conflicted to you?TG wrote:His(vollkan) major caveat in this game is his case against TheJiveMachine, who was the most obvious/weakest target at the time.
And exactly why is he a presence in most of your posting?Compcrack
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Maybe it would help if you didn't play into their hands with your histrionics. In addition, said behavior hinders town because it's out of the ordinary and would detract from finding scum.curiouskarmadog wrote:I have been lynched so many times on silly scum driven accusations of overreacting it is not even funny.Compcrack
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Er... I thought there were three...?Adel wrote:I still think that both scum are in team LU.
@ Erg0: I don't know if this is playstyle issue or what, but I'd rather you weigh in on your suspicions of people instead of directing a question at someone who is unlikely to answer anyway.Compcrack
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Like I have said before, my vote on you was meant to draw out some sort of response. Your response was more vigorous than I anticipated. I find this as distracting and maybe scummy.curiouskarmadog wrote:
that is all you gathered from our conversation....try taking a stance...is overreacting scummy? was I overreacting? am I scummy?TrustGossip wrote:
Maybe it would help if you didn't play into their hands with your histrionics. In addition, said behavior hinders town because it's out of the ordinary and would detract from finding scum.curiouskarmadog wrote:I have been lynched so many times on silly scum driven accusations of overreacting it is not even funny.
curious, I may be off the mark in suspecting you, but just for future reference, overly emotional play tends to be bad for town. In addition, we already have in our game and example when posting in haste was seen as scummy (Pooky v. shaft.ed).
In the interests of expanding our knowledge (and giving you an opportunity to stop being on the defensive), who do you find scummy on yourownteam and why?Compcrack
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Were you so excited by your indictment of armix that you couldn't get your quote tags right?vollkan wrote:
OBJECTION!CKD wrote: Thats a combination of posts 298-300. Also at the tail end of your post before this it starts as well. And the fact it was a triple post implies the posts were extremely hasty, implying an extremely aggressive reaction.
Over reaction is scummy as it implies you have a lot more on the line with the lynch, which a scum would (especially in a nightless game, losing 1 of 2 or 3 members is a much bigger blow than losing one of 7 or 8). It also implies that you are being a lot more wary of single votes on you, which is scummy for the same reasons.
I love the syllogistic thinking
Triple posting is aggressive over-reaction
Aggressive over-reaction is scummy
Triple posting is scummy
I dispute the first line entirely, and I dispute the reliability of the second line. The third line, then, is just ridiculous.
Have you meta'd CKD? Is he normally calm, cool and collected?armlx wrote:
There's one other reason I can think of for overreactions, and it's that you are a completely incompetent newbie. You offered to do a PbP, so that is blown out of the water.
It makes sense to me. Sure, it isn't exactly eloquent, but it is still intelligible.armlx wrote: Also, it's not even just the triple posts. Did you read what you said in those? It doesn't even make sense, you use the word bull shit actual infi times.
I also fail to see why the use of "bull shit" is relevant. Mentally change it to "falderal" or "rot" if you must, but it doesn't mean anything/
I agree with you here; hunch voting is bad. Admitting it makes no difference, because the problem in hunch play is that it makes an unchallengeable statement.armlx wrote: You claim that voting on a hunch isn't scummy b/c you told use you were doing it. Because honesty makes everything better.
armlx wrote: Dear god, if that wasn't an over reaction I would love to see what is.armlx wrote:te on why CKD's #360 was an over-reaction?
"Clearly was"? Prove it.armlx wrote: Double posting on its own isn't over reacting, however in that situation it clearly was.
FoS: armlx
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Good posting.curiouskarmadog wrote:I feel like this situation is great for the town at this point. It has spawned conversation and shows you really are pushing a vote based on absolutely nothing.
Yes, I wouldn't mind Armix going, but I would really want fresh replacements for Dean and Jive.
I'm still a little annoyed that all Erg0 deigns to provide for us is a question for Jive. You've been gone quite a while and you really think that question is the best to ask in order to help us at the moment?
Weak.
I would also like Adel to post a more substantial weigh-in of the current situation(s).Compcrack
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I'd just like to say my current suspicions are of Erg0 and curiouskarmadog.
I think everyone should weigh in on what they feel about the game so far/who's scummy/who's not so scummy/et cetera before we get people jumping up and down going "I want to the be leader!"
After that, I think the best way to choose leader is majority rule. It's better than nominations or dice/random.Compcrack
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Why do you restrict yourself to NLU? The teams have dissolved. Your dismissal of half the people in the game is interesting.vollkan wrote:Preferential voting ftw:
My suspicions of NLU in reverse shall determine my nomination preferences:
1) shaft.ed
2) Adel
3) CKD
Thus, my support goes to shaft.ed.
At the moment the only reason I can think of for this development is that you harbor some kind of ire for Pooky. Which is odd because you don't seem the type of person to take things personally. Please elaborate on why you've done this.Compcrack
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curious.
I'm not about to do a 180 just because armix was unveiled as scum. His machinations against you could very well be an elaborate distancing attempt as the town began to sniff him out.
I have major problems with how eager you piped up to be the leader upon your "successful" lynch of armix.
Town doesn't get that heady and powerhungry. It seems more like you thought your bus was successful.
Do not expect me to relent on you for even a moment.Compcrack
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