NY 142: Rolling in the Deep, WAIT WAT? PARTY OVER?!


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Post Post #74 (isolation #0) » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:27 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 23, Zdenek wrote:
In post 22, Hiraki wrote:explain policy lynch

go

Neruzian era mafia, post 1531.


Anyone else look this up? The post seemed to show little evidence of sorgster being a bad player. It had even less evidence of the player being unreadable, which is an important component of any good policy lynch. Failure to help out with scumhunting isn't good enough. Poor voting accuracy isn't good enough. A bad, but transparent player can be ignored when he makes crappy attacks, overruled by a wise town when he votes poor targets, and then lynched or not lynched based on his attempts at play. This is why DeityKabuto is a terrible policy lynch. I won Friends and Enemies mafia partly by explaining how DeityKabuto was a strong townread and urging the rest of the town not to mislynch him after my untimely, certain N1 death (I had daykilled scum :cool: )

I have context about zdenek's usual attitudes towards policy lynching, but this comes off as pretty weak, especially when he's invited to expound on why it's a good policy lynch and what good policy lynching is and instead he just gives a post number and then lurks the thread.
vote zdenek
for now.

And most of that spiel is for you folks to stop wasting time considering unwarranted policy lynching. Stop it. Unless you have a killa 7 for show and tell, it's time for old-fashioned scumhunting.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #82 (isolation #1) » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:56 am

Post by popsofctown »

That's become moot at this point. Now he's trying to backpedal out of what was clearly a serious policy lynch by saying it was a joke. It's scum waffling.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #86 (isolation #2) » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:08 am

Post by popsofctown »

WHAT A WITTY COMEBACK!

BECK - 1
SHATTER - ZEROOOOOO
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #87 (isolation #3) » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:09 am

Post by popsofctown »

sarcasm tags
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #106 (isolation #4) » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:43 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 98, Zdenek wrote:
In post 96, Beck wrote:if I thought he did that as a throw away thinking nobody would really pay much attention to it than yes I could see scum make that comment, especially because there would always be somebody like you to point out that he could take heat.

for right now though he is good for some pressure, much better than the reason you are pointing out.

It's not a throwaway comment. Pops' is blathering. He's talking about how policy lynching DK is a bad move, bragging about past games as town and theorizing about what makes a good policy lynch. He accuses me of lurking when my time between posts is less than 24 hours, so he is grasping at straws trying to make me look bad. He argues that my argument for a policy lynch was weak while insisting that it must have been serious, without even considering the question: if it were serious, could it have been stronger?

One liners are lurking.

The policy lynching stuff was mostly to get people to stop waggoning eachother. There was some other policy lynch stuff getting kicked around.

Don't understand your last sentence there.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #285 (isolation #5) » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:41 am

Post by popsofctown »

I'm unable to post a lot right now because of RL reasons, and will sometimes have to post from a frustrating Mac that makes multiquoting too hard to be worth it.

Re: zdenek - no point in talking to him if he won't concede his original PL was real. It's Lynch all Liars with a fresh OMGUS sprig for color.

Re: Beck vs. Pine - Beck is not a vigging target. Pine came out the scummier side of the massive argument. Slandaar's comment on his subtler town claim is more true than he knows, even if it isn't ladylike protestation it is still condescending, correct-procedure based kind of posting I expect from scum.

Re: thamatuer- Yeah... setting up an ultimatum, not questioning either half, being ready to vote whichever is more popular, these are all bad things. If this is really how he usually plays like Pine says, then he's so far VI that he's policy lynch territory anyway. I can't be expected to read people who imitate the scum wincon that closely as town.

Re: townlists- Townlists are bad. but gtg more on that later
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #287 (isolation #6) » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:17 am

Post by popsofctown »

Making a scumlist and thereby implying that the rest of the players are relatively townier is fine. Picking out a small group of townies and saying "these people have outstanding protown signals" is bad, because if this is really the case then other townies can almost certainly tell, and those people are unlikely to be lynched anyway. Scum, however, have psychological blocks making it more difficult for them to catch on, so they won't necessarily know that the person in question needs to be nightkilled for having no mislycnh potential whatsoever. Thus, making a townlist helps scum nightkill more accurately to make a miniscule difference on town lynching more accurately.

Another reason it's bad is that you can always wait until that person is at L-1 to speak up. The only case where you can't do that is if you get a protown read on an earlier day and then get nightkilled. That's usually not a sufficiently probable outcome to justify townlists though. In some cases it is though: as I've mentioned earlier this game, I made a townlist containing only DeityKabuto's name because there was a 95% chance I would be killed that night. I also had reason to believe that other townies wouldn't really be able to replicate that read. I've said DK is readable but he's not the most readable player on site. Also, he had claimed VT in a game where PR hunting was critical, so he was pretty insulated from nightkills. It takes unusual factors for townlists to make sense.


Now, large townlists are much more ok. Scumlists only leave a large townlist as a remainder, and that's why it's more ok. You're identifying a large group of people that you just don't think the town searchlight should go after today, but you still could change your mind on those people. There's little harm there, the scum probably know enough to shoot within that large townlist anyway, they just can't recognize the super townie gem in there that is echoing every townie's thoughts before they can even post them as the absolute best kill.

To be clear, I'm not calling anyone scum based on this. Disagreeing is a totally understandable viewpoint, it's a pretty complex issue, and if you disagree you brought that with you since signups so it's not indicative of your alignment. I just give this spiel every game in hopes that maybe one or two players might see the truth and what I'm saying and stop making townlists to improve the nightgame a smidge more.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #302 (isolation #7) » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:06 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 289, Revenus wrote:And scum should be shooting at people they think are PR, not people they think are just "town". In your scenario, it makes it easier for vanillas to do their job and lead town during day.

lol. PR hunting, really?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #303 (isolation #8) » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:09 am

Post by popsofctown »

PR hunting is almost impossible. The changed wincon is what makes scumhunting work. Most PRs in a large normal are weaker than an Innocent Child anyhow.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #432 (isolation #9) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:25 am

Post by popsofctown »

I'm strapped for time I can devote to mafia, so please chill on my activity level.

Re: IioA - I like theory crafting a lot, so I'm naturally predisposed to talk a lot about it since I enjoy it more. That said it is anti-town, I really should use what little time I have for scumhunting even if I enjoy it less. Anti-town =/= scum though, and it's up to you to decide whether the purpose of my posting was to appear to have more contributions than I actually have or just wanted to rant.

zdenek is still scum. His early behavior seems like one of the scummiest things ever. Normally I have to question such a strong read and wonder if it's too good to be true. But zdenek is a special case, because in the last game I played with him he was extremely scummy as well (from my perspective, but that's the perspective I'm syncing up with what's happening now).

I actually applied this logic in the very last game I played. An overall weak player made a single post that was extremely scummy. She was my top scumpick all game. Flipped SK.

Revenus needs to get an avatar. I have the same meta on Hiraki as others do, although this volume is normal for him he usually has little nuggets of truth.

IAU did something really scummy, can't remember what it was. I'll multipost it and ask forgiveness for this Mac.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #433 (isolation #10) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:32 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 414, iamausername wrote:
Beck wrote:
In post 385, Revenus wrote:Actually Pine/Slaandar, would you guys be down with a Beck lynch? At worst we lynch town d1 which although unfortunate, happens all the time to far better players than Beck. At best we get rid of scum who has been mass posting in a disruptive manner, and is seriously allowing almost everyone to just pop in and comment on him. It will certainly clear up the game flow. This is just a proposition, but Beck is far and away the most antitown player in the game and I don't see any signs of improvement from him that will help us in the coming days.


And I'm fine with Hiraki and funkybike.

This is a horrible post btw. There is no town motivation in this post


QFT.

UNVOTE: theamateur
VOTE: Revenus

It was this. QFTing people is bad, but iau probably knows it is bad, and that WIFOMs back and forth. But what he quoted isn't even more than "this post is scummy", so his vote remains totally free of any reason whatsoever. And theamateur was such a strong wagon to hop from, yet there doesn't seem to be any reason for the move besides that thamateur isn't as hot a topic now.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #434 (isolation #11) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:34 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 416, Hiraki wrote:Iamusername: Really?

I thought you were better than that.

oh. it turns out I'm just parroting a case I missed.

That's a pretty good summary.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #436 (isolation #12) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:47 am

Post by popsofctown »

Lynch all Liars. You claimed your first post was a joke because it was beneficial for it to be one.

Unless you can explain what's so humorous about sorgster's play in 1531
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #438 (isolation #13) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:57 am

Post by popsofctown »

No, only lies that could have a scummy motivation. Lying about how serious your post was could benefit you, if your deception was successful you'd be less likely to be lynched. Scum have a considerably higher survival motive than town do.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #443 (isolation #14) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:02 pm

Post by popsofctown »

If I had a dime for each newbish thing rev said...
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #452 (isolation #15) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:29 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 445, Revenus wrote:hey i disagree with revenus trying to find out whos town so therefore i'm going to misconstrue it as him PR hunting.

That wasn't what that post meant. The post it quoted had you arguing that scum should use nightkills to PR hunt, therefore townlists are fine.

iirc I followed up with an explanation of how using nightkills to PR hunt is terribly inaccurate, so I feel like you had enough info to figure out what I was saying.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #453 (isolation #16) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:34 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 451, Zdenek wrote:
In post 450, Beck wrote:
I agree zde needs to explain what was bad about the post from that game, even if the PL was a joke (still disagree it was) he should explain his reasoning to single that post out

Sorgster voted a confirmed vote-stealer, an almost sure town role, who he thought was an inventor (for no reason as far as I know) and who claimed day-cop (which was not the case).

Why did this take 20 pages?

I kinda get it now. -sigh-
unvote

Still somewhat scummy, but no longer lynch worthy. Until I realize someone scummier,
vote: thamatuer
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #509 (isolation #17) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:27 am

Post by popsofctown »

bvoigt wrote:

This post indicates to me that pops' read of Zdenek wasn't sincere. For one thing, he was saying earlier that "his early behavior seems like one of the scummiest things ever," so it doesn't seem like he would suddenly change his mind. Furthermore, pops' original reason for his vote was that Zdenek was backpedaling and saying that a serious policy lynch was a joke. If anything, wouldn't knowing the actual reason behind Zdenek's original suggestion make it more likely that the suggestion was serious? (Did this paragraph make any sense?)

[/quote]
If you build Rube Goldberg machines out of BB code I can't nested quote you >_<

You're slightly misrepping my case. The case was lynch all liars, not waffling. It's either an extremely strong scumtell if the original statement was true, or not much if it is false.

He's still scummy, but now it's his choice to chainsaw for himself instead of taking numerous opportunities given to him to explain himself that stands as the only tell I have against him.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #510 (isolation #18) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:41 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 497, Pine wrote:This is starting to stall a bit.

Okay, everyone in your next post, please list your top three or four preferences (not your top one that we've heard about ad nauseum) for
today's
lynch and a sentence or two about
why
for each. Again, preferably in new words an not the same ones you've used before. Rank-ordering is a plus.

Rank 1: thamatuer - absurdly scummy behavior setting up the false dilemma of Pine or Beck scum, and seems like the brand of VI I can't discern between VItown and VIscum.

Like, he has behaved so scummy that if I gave him a pass for being a weak player, I would have to rate him so low he'd be in policy lynch territory, so might as well lynch them. Policy/scummy hybrids are often better than either alone.

Rank 2: funkybike1 - This time it's lurking instead of ability, but the effect is the same- scummy player that will be unreadable the rest of the game and so also has a PL aspect.

Rank 3:
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #511 (isolation #19) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:51 am

Post by popsofctown »

Rank 9: Sky, for underexplained wagon hopping in his last post..
Rank 10: Shattered Viewpoint, VI hunting rather than actual scumhunting as much as I can recall.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #512 (isolation #20) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:54 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 507, Revenus wrote:Nah, changed my night I AM going to vig you tonight,

This is antitown behavior. More experienced players have explained to you that this is anti-town behavior. Please stop engaging in antitown behavior.

Also, get an avatar.

Spoiler: spoiler
Doc on
Beck
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #521 (isolation #21) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:07 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 515, Revenus wrote:
In post 512, popsofctown wrote:
In post 507, Revenus wrote:Nah, changed my night I AM going to vig you tonight,

This is antitown behavior. More experienced players have explained to you that this is anti-town behavior. Please stop engaging in antitown behavior.

Also, get an avatar.

Spoiler: spoiler
Doc on
Beck



I'm plenty experienced playing forum mafia thank you very much.


There's quantity of experience and there's quality of experience. Few, if any, other forums have a meta as strong as mafiascum does.

Early claiming vig is bad. Simple logical exercises should be able to get you from that to softclaiming vig is bad. Whether you're actually vig or not, scum have a WIFOM presented to them about whether you are the vig. This provides scum with information about your role if they see through it. There is no need to give them that info in the first place.

Someone else tell him to get an avatar, since I'm pretty sure he's deliberately going without one because he doesn't like me and I'm the one asking.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #522 (isolation #22) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:12 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 520, Pine wrote:
In post 517, theamatuer wrote:
In post 516, Slandaar wrote:
In post 500, theamatuer wrote:
Pine: one of beck/Pine is scum, and Pine seems the better canidate of the two

Why?

why does one have to be scum?

why cant they both be town?

what has alerted you to the fact one of them HAS to be scum?

I feel that one of them should be scum based on the interaction between Beck and Pine
That possibility could happen, but one of them being scum is way more possible.
And they dont HAVE to be scum, its they SHOULD be scum due to their constant attacking of each other.

The bolded is a
stunning
logical fallacy. Shit, I don't even know whether that makes him more or less scummy at this point. If I thought he were feigning that kind of illogic, or trying to manipulate others into believing it, then yeah. But if he actually believes that makes sense, that throws a lot of my read off. It's like fencing with an 8-year-old (nerd alert). When fencing a novice adult, an experienced fencer can beat them easily, because adults (or at least those prone to taking up fencing) have been inundated their whole lives with poor examples of the skill. They're predictable and it's easy to get in their head. But children are sometimes the most frustrating opponents, because you don't know
what
the fuck they're going to do. Or why. Total wild cards, even if their attacks don't make an ounce of sense, they can catch you off-guard by how ridiculous they are.

Which is why, given the choice, you'd watch an adult fencer's previous games to learn his tendencies, as predicting the child's behavior has become a lost cause. In the same way, it's sometimes better to keep readable players around D2 and give up on guessing at the illogical ones.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #525 (isolation #23) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:23 am

Post by popsofctown »

No, really, it's bad play. Even if mafia has only a 10% chance of knowing your alignment, it's info they didn't need to have.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #527 (isolation #24) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:30 am

Post by popsofctown »

role, not alignment.
urgh.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #533 (isolation #25) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:48 am

Post by popsofctown »

It's hard to read people because they are fluffposting, so I fluffpost in my boredom.

It's a vicious cycle.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #535 (isolation #26) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:55 am

Post by popsofctown »

Maybe I've been in GD since 2008.

I did answer the list thingy you asked everyone to do. Thamatuer is my strongest read. He's pretty lynchworthy. I mean, I'm generally happy D1 if I get a lynch as good as him so I don't feel like turning on the searchlights.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #536 (isolation #27) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:09 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 187, Shattered Viewpoint wrote:
In post 109, Beck wrote:Before you call my case bullshit, try making one yourself, until than you have no right to criticize my case.


Have a seat, get comfortable. Allow me to tell you a little tiny story.

Once upon a time, there was a game, This game was called Mafia. It involved an informed minority and an uninformed majority. The way you play this game doesn't really differ much -- on the surface -- regardless of which side you happen to be on.

Everyone is trying to catch scum. (Hush, now, even the scum are trying to
appear
to be catching scum.)

The Mafia, while trying to appear town and catching the scum, may (or may not) make some bullshit arguments.

It is while deconstructing these bullshit arguments that we, as Town, are able to narrow down the possibilities of who is scum and who is not.

Your case is bullshit. Therefore, you're either scum or a fucking idiot.



One scum found!

In post 114, Revenus wrote:UNVOTE: beck

I've actually liked what Beck has had to say thus far.


Looky there!
Two
scum found![/b]


Oh, and Beck? Here's some further proof of your scumminess/moronity:
In post 112, Beck wrote:@ sorg, I still stand by it

PL in general, bad play

PL of DK in general, the best thing town can do for themselves 100% of the time.


In post 138, ZeL1nK wrote:I don't get it. Is this opposite day or something?

I'm obvtown, why are you voting for me?


THIRD
scum found! I think I just came.


In post 161, Slandaar wrote:
In post 158, Beck wrote:
IM OBV TOWN

This is my read on beck



FOURTH---
no, wait. Slandaar's just dumb.


In post 162, Beck wrote:We also have a shut load of people who need to post, and others who need to post content and not nonsensical horseshit (shattered this means you)


Blow me, scumboy.

And funkybike isn't scum, just newbtown Lurker McLurkyman.

Bolding mine. There's a startling lack of internal consistency in Shattered's (flawed) scumhunting method. Looks like "ease of targetting" variability from where I'm sitting. He sticks to VI hunting because it's easier. Slandaar doesn"t derppost.

His enthusiasm is hard to read since he's so wild, but I think the witchhunt may have been feigned. The contentless posts attacking zelink and defending funkybike are kind of sketchy from a pairing perspective as well, don't forget to mention a scumpartner etc.


I'm analyzing ISOs until Pine forgives me for ENJOYING MYSELF IN AN INTERNET GAME.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #537 (isolation #28) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:10 am

Post by popsofctown »

The second bolding should extend to cover Shattered's response there. Selective buddyhunting.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #542 (isolation #29) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:25 am

Post by popsofctown »

yay, sheepses
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #543 (isolation #30) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:25 am

Post by popsofctown »

*sheepseses

big difference.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #549 (isolation #31) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:05 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 546, Beck wrote:*facepalm*
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #552 (isolation #32) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:26 am

Post by popsofctown »

Then your reads are terrible.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #554 (isolation #33) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:39 am

Post by popsofctown »

Are you going to back up the Amatuer ultimatum?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #556 (isolation #34) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:25 am

Post by popsofctown »

Let's call a gag rule on softclaiming.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #559 (isolation #35) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:40 am

Post by popsofctown »

sigh...
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #562 (isolation #36) » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:39 pm

Post by popsofctown »

Are you fully caught up sword? I think Shattered has enough material for you to have an initial read.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #587 (isolation #37) » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:34 am

Post by popsofctown »

Thad's making lots of sense and seems to have more of a handle on this game than I do.

Maybe I should sheep him
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #596 (isolation #38) » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:57 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 589, Slandaar wrote:hes using information re the wagon on funky to try and cast suspicion on the 3 of us when we have no idea if the said wagon was scum or town, it makes no sense to do so in the way he is suggesting unless we know for sure funky is the vig... 3rd vote on scum seems pretty townie to me (i have no idea which vote mine was)

it reads to me like he knows funky is town.

the latter slots of a wagon are always more likely to contain scum. A scum is unlikely to be the first vote of a bus, and hammer-bussing winds up being silly obvious so the trend is towards the middle.

Further more, whether funky is town or scum, he's pretty derpy. It doesn't take Thad a special role pm for him to know you don't actually have all that much information on his slot. It's decent wagon analysis.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #675 (isolation #39) » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:25 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 630, Shattered Viewpoint wrote:
In post 497, Pine wrote:This is starting to stall a bit.

Okay, everyone in your next post, please list your top three or four preferences (not your top one that we've heard about ad nauseum) for
today's
lynch and a sentence or two about
why
for each. Again, preferably in new words an not the same ones you've used before. Rank-ordering is a plus.

No. Read my iso. My reads have not yet changed, and I've read the entire thread now.

In post 523, Revenus wrote:Fencing's gay.

Don't
even
get me started.

In post 524, Beck wrote:I'll take this time to apologize to shattered, you pissed me off and I went too far.

I'll accept your apology, but you're still scum.

Haven't read past this.

No initial reads off the new material is very bad, adding to my other concerns.

vote Shattered
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #676 (isolation #40) » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:30 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 649, Slandaar wrote:I am not taking it personally, I honestly believe he is scum, i did not omgus the previous suspicions of me did I?

Uh, it was like OMGUS set-up though.
In post 636, funkybike1 wrote:Also, I fully support the notion that I am newb town.

The phraseology of this statement, although not the statement itself, is suspicious. "I'm willing to accept the title of newbtown" would be more natural phrasing with a town role pm.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #677 (isolation #41) » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:36 pm

Post by popsofctown »

FTR, I've stopped reading Beck's longer posts and that's what you can do if you're worried about the "flow of the game". He's useless at scumhunting but far to townish to be viggable let alone lynchable.

Stop wasting time where it isn't due, focus on finding
scum
.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #705 (isolation #42) » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:06 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 692, ThAdmiral wrote:
In post 674, vijay2vasandani wrote:Sorgster, you seem to keep jumping on every available wagon. However, I have to agree that SV is an idiot. For fucks sake, you can't get it right this early. If you do, its a guess. You are bluffing.

VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

YES, I'VE GOT SCUM. I'M JUST THAT GOOD!
Stop being cocky as fuck. Please.

This seems like you are trying to have your cake and eat it to. You are saying it is scummy for someone else to jump on a wagon, then you jump on it yourself. Furthermore it doesn't seem like you are voting SV because you think he is scum, but because he is cocky?


Style 1: I think X and Y are scum. I think X is scum because of blah blah blah. I prefer Y over that because of blah blah blah. The blahs tell you something about my alignment, and I've gotten off the lurkerlist.

Style 2: I think X and Y are scum. I just know. I refuse to share any blah with you. I'm targetting people, therefore I'm active.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #810 (isolation #43) » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:04 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 768, Slandaar wrote:
Funky the guy who has posted approximately 0 content is voting someone for not posting content, do you not see the irony? its actually pretty scummy voting someone for doing what you are doing (it does not matter if his reasons are valid) a lurker voting a lurker is scummy as it implies the lurker thinks lurking is scummy but they are doing it so they cannot possibly think lurking is scummy as they themselves are town... or not.

This is a logical fallacy. It's probably one of those particular ones with a particular name, but I don't know what it is.
People who eat a bad diet are usually unhealthy. I eat a bad diet myself, but I have had the fortune of staying healthy. If you give me a lineup of people and tell me one eats vegetables all the time and the other eats junk all the time and then asked which one I want to bet 10$ they get the flu this year, I'm going to pick the guy that eats junk.
I couldn't think of a better way to illustrate this, but it's quite possible that 80% of lurkers are scum, funky is in the 20% that isn't, but he is still improving his accuracy by lurkerhunting.

I still like my Shattered Vote right now. Targetting all my townreads, no reasoning whatsoever, and declines to comment on something like 15 pages which is basically epic active lurking.

But thad slandaar drama is interesting keep it goin
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #876 (isolation #44) » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:24 am

Post by popsofctown »

iamausername wrote:
But... his case about Zdenek backpedalling on whether his policy lynch suggestion was serious is still completely valid, and yet he seems to have forgotten why he thought Zdenek was scum. That's certainly problematic. And pops' rebuttal to this point basically makes no sense whatsoever.


That actually might be entirely true. Probable even.
But I had slogged through some 20 pages of frustrating, unreadable trash at that point while zdenek was pushed to the backburner. Getting that piece of the puzzle 20 pages of game time and something like a week of RL time, it's harder to understand where it fits than it would have been shortly after RVS. Which a difficulty zdenek is scummily responsible for making, yet another reason he remains quite high on my scumlist. Second to SV, now that theamatuer has improved some.

Why is this scummy? You didn't connect my behavior to the scum wincon at all, as if it's an easy exercise for the reader. The only way it would be so simple to see a connection is if you thought I was buddy with zdenek.. but based on my play in this game as a whole, I think that's a really hard idea to push.


As for the Revenus case.. everything IAAU said was pretty valid, and Rev should be near the top of anyone's scumlist. His posting as a whole, though, gives me the impression of him being a player that is scummy as homemade sin in every game he plays. To quote the master: "Town should have the same survival motive tbh". Every other post he makes seems transplanted from a newbie game, and he's probably from some godawful site with 24 hour days. So he very well could flip scum, but I find SVscum more likely, and I also think SV lynch is more informative.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #893 (isolation #45) » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:50 am

Post by popsofctown »

shattering case

I see what you did there.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #929 (isolation #46) » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:54 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 915, Slandaar wrote:Rev, I need to know how much experience do you have playing mafia?

Revenus is at Glorklike levels and is (rather evidently) a grandmaster of the game of mafia. We are blessed that he has graced us with his participation in this game. His mastery of every nuance of the game lets him tap into scumtells everyone else misses, like

In post 602, Revenus wrote:And your outburst lasted for about 60 posts, and it was the very definition of stupid posting, so we should be voting you.


In post 793, Revenus wrote:Statements like "youre both town" scream: "I know you're both town because I know who everone in town is and it suits my purpose to tell you who is town because guess what? I'm scum"
.


The best plan of action is probably to direct both the the cop and doc to Revenus, confirm his alignment, and then proxy all our votes to him for the rest of the game. Because we know, on His Revenus's good authority, that Revenus has epochs of experience in a magical faraway land, catching scum redhanded and vigging the remaining ones at night, whether or not he actually has a vigilante role, because he's just that good.


- - - If I actually believed Revenus was as experienced as he claims to be, I would be voting him since page 5 or so, indefinitely.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1041 (isolation #47) » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:10 pm

Post by popsofctown »

I'm going to have to defer to Faraday on SV, since he claims to have a meta on him.
unvote

I disagree with a lot of his other reads though.

Crossing of SV and Revenus leaves me with funkybike, which I'm not that enthusiastic about either. Hiraki seems like funkybike++, since I know Hiraki can post better, and I don't know whether funkybike can or does. But..

Since vijay's iso isn't very townie and his top three scumpicks are the most popular wagons with little original thought, I'll go with
vote: vijay
.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1044 (isolation #48) » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:54 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 1042, vijay2vasandani wrote:Pops I would just like to say, I was on those bandwagons before they were cool, sadly.

not really.


sadly? you know they're townwagons?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1059 (isolation #49) » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:02 am

Post by popsofctown »

The issue isn't wagon hopping. The issue is lack of original thought.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1092 (isolation #50) » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:42 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 1061, Beck wrote:
In post 1059, popsofctown wrote:The issue isn't wagon hopping. The issue is lack of original thought.

Until I realize someone scummier, vote: thamatuer


No initial reads off the new material is very bad, adding to my other concerns.

vote Shattered


oh yeah lack of original thoughts, because these are really good examples of original thought from you (sarcasm)

It's a lack of original thought in his entire iso.

The shattered post is quite a terrible example, since the scumtell in the post itself was totally novel, and "other concerns" referred to an original case a couple pages ago when I was the first at all to attack Shattered.

@ThAd - sorry, I prefer
the air
vijay. I'm still developing my opinion of the questionmaster, he's a small, hook shaped target.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1156 (isolation #51) » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:19 am

Post by popsofctown »

Slandaar case gets more and more compelling. The cognitive dissonance bit seems legitimate. Emphasizing the "strong scumreads" we all already have as validation for a lazy SV policy lynch is rather classical lining up of lynches, since the Big Three and ThAd all appear townly at this juncture.

Vijay's player by player helped him, but not enough to bring him to null for me.

Sword of Omens is a lazy lynch.

Screamhawk is a weak lynch. What posting he has looks pretty genuine to me, and wanting to policy lynch noisy players is anti-town but not very indicative of alignment.

zdenek, Vijay, and Slandaar are good lynches right now.

SV is a bad lynch, two players have claimed that his behavior is not really scummy in light of his meta, so unless you want to propose both of those are his partners, he needs to get a pass.

Revenus is a bad lynch because he's newbtown. He's also bickery, which is townly. When scum get in catfights, they usually end up getting uppity and condescending, or sly and undermining, or something like that. Revenus's bickering with Beck puts him as town. Plus, would you really bicker that much with
Beck
if you already knew his alignment? srsly. As someone who "knows" his alignment by virtue of him being an obvread by page 20 or something, I can tell you that this knowledge drives me not to bicker with beck, but rather to ignore all of his posts completely if I don't see my name in there.

Funkybike is also a weak lynch, and the style he's been playing with means flips will probably analyze his D1 votes like an open book so he seems better off left be. This is probably the least bad of the trendywagons but still a rather uninformative, fairly inaccurate D1 lynch. Plus slandaar pushed that lynch and slandaar is scummy.



K, now you guys all know better. Correct your votes immediately and shift discussion to which amongst these viable scumspects is best.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1164 (isolation #52) » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:45 am

Post by popsofctown »

NS as in nobody special?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1170 (isolation #53) » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:15 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 1166, Shattered Viewpoint wrote:
In post 1162, Pine wrote:SV you're an alt of NS, right?

Although I hardly see how this is in ANY WAY relevant.

My reads are my reads, and if you people won't pay attention to me, and lose the game through sheer stubbornness, again, NOT MY FAULT.


pops, yes.

I've seen this movie before. If your reads are right, you blame everyone else for refusing to blindly sheep you. If they're wrong, you scurry off and don't say anything about it. It's very annoying.

Unfortunately Beck, antitown =/= scum. NS is just a useless player.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1171 (isolation #54) » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:17 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 1169, sword_of_omens wrote:hey guys..just popping in to say i've requested to get replaced out...
unfortunately i cannot commit the time and energy into this game like i thought i could...
Beck's 10 pages a day is killing me...and especially with me having minimum access on the weekends...

also, lol'd at SV being NS...

This is why you don't PL inactives Day 1.

Odds are the goodhearted boy scout replacement will be a readable player.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1253 (isolation #55) » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:55 am

Post by popsofctown »

You were right the first time. vijay's defenses are all sounding like "I'm scum, but you have no way of knowing that."

Trying to play the game if and only if your neck is on the line is the definition of scummy. Unless you make pretty genuine "read my will after I die" cases.

I want to stick to vijay lynch. Let's see if this "masterful scum" tried a jumpy bus on his partner.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1286 (isolation #56) » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:16 am

Post by popsofctown »

This thread is a giant facepalm.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1295 (isolation #57) » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:10 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 1289, Revenus wrote:I'm confirmed scum? Shut up.


I've been busy the past day and I haven't seen anything worthwhile in the past day to comment on.

I don't understand why when I vote Beck, I get flak, but when others vote Beck for the same exact reason I vote him, it's apparently ok.

I'll refrain from answering this. But only barely.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1390 (isolation #58) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:57 am

Post by popsofctown »

why do you continue to

pull attention from vijay


Ever since his pressure relieved he has been active lurking.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1398 (isolation #59) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:11 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 1395, Pine wrote:By the way, if it's in the wiki, it's obsolete.

Unless it's REALLY old, and then it might be back in play for WIFOM reasons. The wiki is super unreliable outside of Newbie games.

I think you're misplacing the Burden of WIFOM. The 3-4-5 spots on a wagon result pretty naturally from Bayes theorem. Only if the scums in question are cognizant of the tell and avoiding it does its popularity decrease. But they might swing back around to too obvious to be true and do it anyway as well, particularly once the meta has shifted away from targetting 3-4-5 scums and thus the meta is currently favoring a single wine swap.

The 0 wine swap and double wine swap behaviors are, as a rule, more popular than than the ones and threes.


Of course the tell's publicity reduces its value, but it's value is always greater than 0.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1400 (isolation #60) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:18 am

Post by popsofctown »

it was half at faraday half at you
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1402 (isolation #61) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:45 am

Post by popsofctown »

of course not. I just think he's too close to null to be a good lynch.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1441 (isolation #62) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:31 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 1433, Revenus wrote:also because you are mafia

lol
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1486 (isolation #63) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:27 pm

Post by popsofctown »

Beck I'll make a deal with you, if you don't get modkilled, I'll start reading your posts again.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1567 (isolation #64) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:48 pm

Post by popsofctown »

I can compromise to soda spirit but i prefer vijay
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1591 (isolation #65) » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:08 am

Post by popsofctown »

how sick?

Pretty horribly, I'd say.
Last edited by chkflip on Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1602 (isolation #66) » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:48 pm

Post by popsofctown »

vote Sodaspirit


Looks like that's where we're headed.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1604 (isolation #67) » Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:44 pm

Post by popsofctown »

It isn't, though. I've already said why. The slip was bad, but not bad enough.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1622 (isolation #68) » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:51 am

Post by popsofctown »

did you expect "the post formerly known as 'slip' " mr. Prince?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1635 (isolation #69) » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:11 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 1630, Slandaar wrote:SV you never did give me your read of me...

Anyway, there is no case on me, simply put. The vijay case is a bit of a mystery too.


Insinuation, "vijay who, as scum, I know to be town, is under an attack that is equally valid to the one on myself".

Slandaar is so unbelievably scummy why can't we get support for this lynch.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1767 (isolation #70) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:05 pm

Post by popsofctown »

hey

RE: Hiraki's accusations - I thought the metaphor was pretty clear. I referred to Revenus's post as a slip so you'd know which post I'm talking about, not because I think it was definite case of scum accidentally giving away their alignment.

RE: zdenek - I'm lying about looking up sorgster's post and reading it? I don't know what evidence you have for that. And I don't see why the heck I would even do that as scum, I'd have enough lies to tell already.

RE: my vote: I'm under the impression that deadline is soon. Nolynching is uncool. I was willing to compromise on a SodaSpirit lynch, though not anymore since he's getting replaced. I have a townread on Revenus, so no I'm not voting for that alternative. And slandaar is, absolutely, scummy, but again, deadlines, and the support for the lynch didn't seem realistic. Until the posts that were made while I was off yesterday, so after a votecount check I might switch to that, brb.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1769 (isolation #71) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:09 pm

Post by popsofctown »

vote: Slandaar
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1880 (isolation #72) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:33 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 1798, Revenus wrote:
In post 724, Hiraki wrote:I'm ignoring Beck.

Trust me guys.

This is really pro-town.

ThA is town. Stop questioning me.

Not getting the funkybike wagon. He's a newbie and he's null. Nothing scummy.

Iamusername: Why are you voting Parker?

@Mod: Does Zdenek have a double vote or not?

In post 1367, Hiraki wrote:Oh. That reminds me.

Unvote, Vote: ThAdmiral


I dunno why, but the wind gives good feelings!




Oh yeah, I forgot, this is such a great train of thought.

I hate to say that this is solid scumhunting from Revenus. That tacks onto pretty much everyone's gut read on Hiraki for his uncharacteristic lack of poking early in the game. I mean really he could have at least trolled with more effort this is such an easy thread to troll. Definitely an acceptable lynch.

Beck wrote:post 1871

Man beck you can accomplish so much when you stop bickering with Revenus.
This a great reason to lynch slandaar, as if any more reason was necessary.

In post 1877, theamatuer wrote:Speaking of fishing....
Rev are you claiming Vig? Because Funky also claimed vig, and I want to see a vig test happen
pedit: sup

You retract this question, because rolefishing is bad. Then you don't bring it up again. Then you work on improving on your antitown meta by thinking about how town wins games and to what extent that involves dead vigilantes.

No one else respond to this post, one scolding's enough.



Pine's poll: Slandaar, vijay, zdenek, hiraki, in that order. I of course don't want a nolynch, but you'll have to twist my arm to get a different lynch from those four.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1894 (isolation #73) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:53 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 1882, Slandaar wrote:Im gonna point this one thing out

more evidence Pops is scum because he thinks this case is great

OK here we go

THE VERY FIRST POINT OF THIS CASE SAYS

In post 1871, Beck wrote:
In post 1226, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1210, Beck wrote:You have basically focused on zde 80% of the game, aka the definition of tunneling IMO

why don't you ISO ThAd, there be a lot of tunneling in that there ISO too.

This is where I comment about his tunneling, his response is well look TheAd is doing it too. (regardless if tunneling is scummy or not, this isn't defending his actions but instead it is deflection onto somebody else)

I focused on zde 80% of the game have I?

DOES ANYONE BELIEVE BECK HERE?

DOES ANYONE BELIEVE POPS READ THE CASE?

They are both scum its just obvious.


Beck's point was to demonstrate your inconsistent stance on tunneling. Whose tunneling you were actually commenting on in that post doesn't matter, and I certainly didn't remember page 12.314159 well enough to know the nested quote was an error. An old post where Beck accuses Slandaar of having given 80% focus on zdenek wouldn't be enough of a fact-checking mistake that I would even raise an eyebrow, because it's Beck.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1964 (isolation #74) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:34 am

Post by popsofctown »

Nice skimming, Hiraki. Beck's vote was rather clearly BBcode fail.


I can only repeat what I said about moving to the SodaSpirit wagon. Slandaar had been ignored for a very long time, wasn't coming up on people's top 5 picks or anything promising like that, and was only getting pressure from ThAd really at that time. My choices appeared to be Revenus, Sodaspirit, or nolynch. And I really preferred a null-scum Sodaspirit lynch over my town read on Revenus, a read you'll find consistent throughout my iso. So I wanted to encourage my preferred wagon.

As soon as Slandaar lynch became realistically possible and had enough visible support to make deadline, I switched over to my much stronger scumread, Slandaar.

I suspect that Slandaar's VT claim and selfvote is a desperate gambit he's making because Beck tied Hirakiscum to him so well. We need to follow through with the lynch. Anyway, he's VT.

Mod : Por favor, don't count the apparent vote from Beck's BB fail, it would make the VC confusing


VIGILANCE!
Last edited by chkflip on Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1988 (isolation #75) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:41 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 1977, Beck wrote:
In post 1976, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1964, popsofctown wrote: a read you'll find consistent throughout my iso.

This confirms pops is scum to me...

I mean really, who thinks about their ISO as town?

probably the same kind of person who claims they have had the most solid reads out of everyone in the game.

Or the kind of person who has just been told, "I'm about to read your iso right after you answer this question".

Slandaar is a scum PR or Hiraki buddy that very much wants to live. Moar Slandaar votes please.

pedit: yeah, sodaspirit's case is active lurking and a sheepy voting record. It's totally unreasonable not to evaluate his replacement.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2015 (isolation #76) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:07 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2002, Slandaar wrote:that is a weird defence of rev

beck/rev might be a team.

This is either the worst player mafia in centuries, or scum that isn't good at faking town play.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2016 (isolation #77) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:09 am

Post by popsofctown »

ebwop, mafia player, not player mafia. as in, bad at the game of mafia. That was a sentence structure edit gone wrong.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2026 (isolation #78) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:43 am

Post by popsofctown »

"Claiming to be scum with someone else will result in a modkill." -rules
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2028 (isolation #79) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:45 am

Post by popsofctown »

tbh I don't think slandaar is breaking the spirit of the rules though, he seems to think things are so dire that it's best if he uses the thread to plan power usage in daylight.

With a side of hiraki could be town wifom.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2033 (isolation #80) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:49 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2030, Velazanth wrote:I think it's sarcasm but to hell with it.

Let's just get to D2 and figure this mess out.

VOTE: Slandaar

Actually I think it reads funny because his purpose is WIFOM. The sure thing is that he's scum, though.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2038 (isolation #81) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:53 am

Post by popsofctown »

I think the mod would say the modkill occurred as of that post, though, nullifying later votes that lynch him. I wouldn't worry about it.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2044 (isolation #82) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:05 am

Post by popsofctown »

The rule is "
claiming
to be scum with someone = modkill".

The idea is that you shouldn't play against your wincon, and by extension you can't imitate that either.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2047 (isolation #83) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:15 am

Post by popsofctown »

Eh. No, it really isn't. The spirit of the rule is that you can't play against your wincon, and you can't pretend to play against your wincon, because we shouldn't be responsible for reading someone who is basically not really playing mafia.
There's not enough emphasis on the day action, and even if there was it isn't actually necessary to name his partner to communicate that desire.

He's making us question whether he is performing blacklist behavior or not, a question we can't be responsible for answering.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2062 (isolation #84) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:03 am

Post by popsofctown »

I'm available all the way up to deadline, consider me a vote on vijay or hiraki as necessary.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2064 (isolation #85) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:09 am

Post by popsofctown »

you forgot the sarcasm tags brah
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2113 (isolation #86) » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:02 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2104, Pine wrote:I've always felt "Scum until proven Town" was a very scummy strategy. Most of the ScreamingHawk wagon just smells funny to me. Oddly enough, Vijayscum's 2091 is the only decent reason I've seen from anyone on the SH wagon.


Well since vijay
forged his read in the fires of mordor
developed that read to produce his first example of original scumhunting to save his neck, 2091's decency doesn't make me feel good enough about the SH wagon to want to support it. Plus, SodaSpirit, which was too policyish for me to like to start with, has more merit on similar grounds.

I'm a fan of lynching vijay today.
Or zdenek, who came out of the gate rather weakly today, with "Defense is Scummy".

I was apparently pretty offtarget yesterday, so I'll put some thought into things today.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2131 (isolation #87) » Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:00 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2124, Pine wrote:
In post 2118, ThAdmiral wrote:
Vote: funkybike


I feel really good about this. Enough to put Revenus on hold.

Encouraging :roll:

Do you think funky had a townread or a scumread on Hiraki? If he had a scumread on Hiraki he wouldn't have those quotes at his fingerprints, the lazy player he is. If he had a townread, then I don't see how he would regard Hiraki as an "easy mislynch". You seem to be going two ways about this. (I'll avoid using the C word and D word because I'm sick of it).
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2135 (isolation #88) » Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:50 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2132, Pine wrote:I don't see the dissonance. I think funkybike is scum. Often the scum night discussion revolves around who to kill and who not to kill; scum don't want to go after anyone too obvious for fear of a Watcher. They don't want to kill anyone too lurky, because it doesn't eliminate a threat. They DO want to kill people like Mastin, who are a great threat and haven't yet said their piece (Mastin is particularly dangerous when he progresses, and gets more so as the game progresses). And they definitely don't want to kill people that look scummy, like Hiraki, because they can be set up for mislynches later.

This is why I think Funky might be scum. Funky's team discussed Hiraki, but decided he was a bad target. That put him in a "why would he be NKed?" mindset. Once he'd stated that, he had to backtrack and call Hiraki's D1 performance Towny, which is ridiculous.

You've said you think there are two scumteams though, but you keep using single scumteam kill logic to nail down why funky must have somehow been considering a Hiraki kill. That he didn't do. Because the vig is the one that actually did so, or the other scumteam, which is smarter than his team or dumber than his team one of the two.

See it's so dissonant I can't really follow it.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2137 (isolation #89) » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:51 pm

Post by popsofctown »

The analysis of his motives is nonsensical if it was scum shooting at eachother. It's not separate at all
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2139 (isolation #90) » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:30 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2138, Pine wrote:
Funky is Town:
Hiraki had been absolute garbage D1, so Funky's later protestations about him being obvtown ring hollow, especially considering Funky's failure to support Hiraki at the end of D1. Funky is not Town.

That would be Funky's first failure to engage in protown activity the entire game MIRITE
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2159 (isolation #91) » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:29 am

Post by popsofctown »

Really guys? If you want to go after someone for softclaiming go after revenus, funky's claim was obviously a joke.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2163 (isolation #92) » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:39 am

Post by popsofctown »

My point was that funky said it was a joke immediately afterwards and did it more playfully than you did. I think both of you were joking, I was trying to make a point.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2190 (isolation #93) » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:40 pm

Post by popsofctown »

Pine's reaction to Beck's scumhunting is pretty sketch. Lots of discreditting and rage
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2223 (isolation #94) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:18 am

Post by popsofctown »

Pine gets way too much of an increase in readability from other flips to
actually
lynch him today. We need to look elsewhere. Do you have any partners in mind for Pine, beck?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2252 (isolation #95) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:27 pm

Post by popsofctown »

Pine has interacted with nearly every player in the game, so flips of other players gives lots of information about his slot. Lynching a less active player is a better way to maximize information, since later flips aren't going to tell us much more about them.

My preferred lynch is
vote: zdenek
, he's seemed really opportunistic today, and all the day 1 stuff is still there.

vijay is still a cool lynch, although I hate to admit his day 2 play is an improvement. Actually, probably not good enough for a lynch anymore.

sorgster is pretty scummy. it's a combination of gut and him seeming to take an unnatural view of every situation, it reads like newbscum.

thamlynch is super lame and makes Pine look bad. I don't expect it to maintain steam, though.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2266 (isolation #96) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:30 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2260, Beck wrote:@ pops, how is zde opportunistic when he made a huge d1 case why pine was scum and pine has still ignored it?

Zde's case got overshadowed by slandaar's stunt. Voting pine today for him can't be called opportunistic at all

Indeed, it can't.
Not
voting pine is what is opportunistic, with his bizarre, weak case at the beginning of day 2 on velzanath which starkly contrasted with the dedicated tunneler image he was putting on Day 1.

@Sky - the way he talked about the admission of his own failure to scumhunt came off seeming authentic to me. You're right in the sense that he has not improved as in, become any less anti-town. My read on his slot just improved and went closer to null.

I feel like I forgot to answer something, someone point it out.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2270 (isolation #97) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:29 pm

Post by popsofctown »

He totally can be that obvscum.

Besides too scummy to be scum etc.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2300 (isolation #98) » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:45 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2295, Pine wrote:I don't really think Zdenek has been opportunistic at all. I looked over that first vote of D2 again, and I just don't see motive or opportunity for jumping on Vel. That really only leaves two options: coordinated bussing, or genuine scumhunting. I'mma go with the latter.

Unvote
Vote: Velzanath


I support this product and/or service.


Pine, seriously. Which person do you think is easier to lynch, you or Velzanath?

From the stream of bold on this page I think I know what my answer is.

I do not support Velzanath lynch. The difference between his lists def looks bad, but I want to hear his explanation. I also want to see zdenek's flip before Velz's fate is decided, if he's scum like I think he is, Velz is pretty clear, if zdenek flips town, I'm certainly more open to it. That doesn't work as well backwards.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2315 (isolation #99) » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:12 am

Post by popsofctown »

Seriously. Seriously? Seriously.

Seriously

Seriously?

You've never once addressed any defense I've made about Revenus based on his experience. You just ignore it. Every post you've ever made about him treats him like a normal player and uses vetlogic instead of newbscum logic. You've never bothered to assert Revenus is competent (lawl) and you've never acknowledged that ability has any impact of your read on him. I assumed you just don't make VI distinctions, which many people don't, but you apparently do. And the only way I can explain the difference between you making that distinction for velz and not revenus is that one of them was an easier target or one of them is your buddy. Or maybe you're just incompletely faking your towngame.

unvote, vote: Pine


That's enough of a tipping point, i should probably start listening to my townreads.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2316 (isolation #100) » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:17 am

Post by popsofctown »

ZeL1Nk wrote:
pops wrote:sorgster is pretty scummy. it's a combination of gut and him seeming to take an unnatural view of every situation, it reads like newbscum.


He's not scummy, just the hugest fucking [edited out on threat of modkill] but (unforunately) is probably town.


In post 2312, ZeL1nK wrote:
sorgster makes sense as scum

Elaborate.
Last edited by chkflip on Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2318 (isolation #101) » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:23 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2319, Pine wrote:
In post 2316, popsofctown wrote:Seriously. Seriously? Seriously.

Seriously

Seriously?

You've never once addressed any defense I've made about Revenus based on his experience. You just ignore it. Every post you've ever made about him treats him like a normal player and uses vetlogic instead of newbscum logic. You've never bothered to assert Revenus is competent (lawl) and you've never acknowledged that ability has any impact of your read on him. I assumed you just don't make VI distinctions, which many people don't, but you apparently do. And the only way I can explain the difference between you making that distinction for velz and not revenus is that one of them was an easier target or one of them is your buddy. Or maybe you're just incompletely faking your towngame.

unvote, vote: Pine


That's enough of a tipping point, i should probably start listening to my townreads.

As policy, I tend to ignore people defending other people. I wasn't aware that
Velzanath
is new, and I don't care. He is making every effort to play with the big boys, and needs to be treated that way. People only do that if they feel they're ready, which accompanies thorough research into site meta. I got away with exactly what you're talking about in
my
first non-Newbie game, and was quite a bit of a VI there. Guess what? I was scum, and actively manipulating my VI image.

Oh cool, I understand why you're sticking to your velzanath vote now.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2319 (isolation #102) » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:25 am

Post by popsofctown »

It's actually hilarious, when I modify the quote it makes more sense because in your anecdote you tried to bolster your own VI meta the way velzanath is doing now.

Lurk more next time. It'll be easier to avoid contradicting yourself.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2322 (isolation #103) » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:30 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2323, Pine wrote:https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16798
Revenus has developed a pattern, and shown a competence that belies his lower experience level. They're entirely different cases.


this is alex's mother he is on the floor in a laughing fit that went into choking who is responsible for this website please give me a phone number i can call
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2382 (isolation #104) » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:12 am

Post by popsofctown »

Pinescum isn't bussing Revenus, particularly because rev is town. Stay the course people
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2390 (isolation #105) » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:13 am

Post by popsofctown »

revenus is the deviation from the course. Pine is the course. A dirty ski slope
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2398 (isolation #106) » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:20 pm

Post by popsofctown »

This is a bad lynch and you should all feel bad.

Beck that's good logic, stay off the wagon.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2415 (isolation #107) » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:45 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2406, iamausername wrote:i'm trying to incentivise myself to actually put effort into this game by generating a situation where i might be in danger of a lynching if i don't

is it working

I loll'ed so much.


IAU, please read the thread.



funkybike's argument for lynching rev makes me think he's skimming the thread which makes me think he's more likely to be a scumtroll since as a towntroll he'd read the thread for the heck of it.


Revenus is not only town, but he's the kind of town that picks the sheep from the goats on who can tell and who can't resist the mislynch. His wagon is incredibly full of scum
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2423 (isolation #108) » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:42 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2421, Beck wrote:Hey sorg, care to explain what went on in your mind between 2358 when you voted pine to 2371 when you joined pine's push and voted rev?

I have my own theory but I will wait for you to comment first.

btw guys, sadly as much as I want rev lynched, this lynch seems very bad.

also theamateur looks bad because of his stance on the wagon and he keeps wanting rev to explain himself. This is either coaching his partner or he is trying to look like the good guy so day 3 if rev flips town, he can use his lurking as an excuse.

sad to say but I am against a rev lynch today.

I think we learn much more with a Pine, Sorg, or theAm lynch than we do with a rev lynch.

goodposting

why can't you all be more like beck
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2472 (isolation #109) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:52 am

Post by popsofctown »

Remarkably higher than average or higher than average? If it's higher than average then 50% (or perhaps fewer if the average is a statistical mean. But still a lot) of people have subclinical OCD or subclinical anything. Which means I have "subclinical asberger's" and should be able to IioA rant as much as I want :P


Lurkers is not a bad place to look. Day 1's inaccurate lynch suggests that the spotlight isn't where the scum are. Funky is a good lynch, as I mentioned in an earlier post. Vijay is still a good lynch. zdenek is a slamdunkscum lynch but no one seems to get that.

Also sorgster. Goodness gracious, that guy. The only person trying to call my off that is Pine who I've now decided is one of <scum, imbecile> so that's not a bad noose to tie. Even for an inexperienced player he seems really off the mark on everything, and is always "down to lynch".
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2478 (isolation #110) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:34 am

Post by popsofctown »

Your D1 case was misguided.

Don't go to the dark side anakin.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2540 (isolation #111) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:42 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2532, iamausername wrote:
In post 2508, Pine wrote:
In post 2505, sorgster wrote:If revenus is a werewolf that would confirm that there are two scum teams. If he is mafia, at least we lynched scum

This...seems tantamount to a scumclaim. Sorgster has officially killed his Towncred with me. Even if it isn't a scumslip, it's bad, bad, terribad logic.


According to the flavour, there are two scumteams, named "Mean Guys Mafia" and "Rolling Heights Gang".

sorgster's post here is pretty obviously an indicator of town ignorance, not any kind of scumclaim, what are you talking about. Come on.

Let's not lynch sorgster.

I think you're reconstructing it quite wrong. townSorgster a) shouldn't care all that much how many scumteams there are and should just lynch scum, b) would use the opening post or even reading the flipping thread to see what his other townies had to say to deduce how many scumteams there are if he's curious. (Pine quoted the relevant chunk of the OP right off the bat at the start of D2, about when sorg should have been curious.)

scumSorgster does care how many scumteams there are, and gets his information about it from the size of his scumteam and/or the comments of his (in all likelihood, lurky) partners. Who probably said, "yeah we're Mean Guys mafia there's probably another scumteam, who should we shoot", so sorgster thinks "oh let's hunt wolves", as opposed to the daytime source of info, which is Pine saying, "hey guys the OP has been
editted
to reflect that it is
almost definitely
a two scum game due to
flavor involving two human factions in a turf war
.

unvote, vote: sorgster


Even the N1 kill flavor involves two guns.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2555 (isolation #112) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:49 pm

Post by popsofctown »

^clearly isn't reading the thread^
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2612 (isolation #113) » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:12 pm

Post by popsofctown »

One pastor is the one stepping over the line and calling people asshats, the other pastor tells him to knock it the [f] off.

Guess it's the 21st century..
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2630 (isolation #114) » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:00 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2627, bvoigt wrote:
Hi DGB. Right now, I think we're lynching Revenus or Velzanath.

Don't listen to him. That's the guy thinks losing a 5th of your team and a 20th of your team are the same thing in mafia.

Sky is a good lurker hunt. So is funky1, though reading his tiny shreds of content generates mixed opinions.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2631 (isolation #115) » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:00 am

Post by popsofctown »

*guy who
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2657 (isolation #116) » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:17 am

Post by popsofctown »

unvote whatever I'm voting, vote thamatuer


Revenus is very townish. Velzanath has a lesser town vibe, but more importantly, was attacked by zdenek scum and it didn't look at all like bussing.

Thamatuer is very VIish and antitown every post he makes. I was hoping he would be one of those readable VIs, but not really, either he freewagons so much because he's scum aligned, or he has such an antitown way of playing mafia I'll probably never her read him. (this is a dichotomy I see a lot, I need a word for it)

Please look at the participation on the Revenus wagon and abandon that lynch. I'll sleep at night if you lynch velz, but for Revenus, no.

Also, velz has claimed VT, Revenus has not, JUST SAYIN.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2665 (isolation #117) » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:37 am

Post by popsofctown »

Pine's 2654 wrote:
As I've said earlier, Revenus is a fearsome, high level player who is taking us all down from the inside. The first offense against him is ACTIVELY ENGAGING IN DAYGAME AND HOGGING SPOTLIGHT. Lesser players might hide from scrutiny as scum, but Revenus is a GrandMaster and thrives on this attention as it allows him to artfully manipulate the town to any mislynch he wishes.

This is evidenced from his buddying me at the beginning of the game. Revenus seconded and me too'ed my insightful posting, attempting to gain control of me, since he is advanced enough to have detected from the first few pages that I'm the key demagogue of this entire thread.

But I am too sharp! Later I figured out what was going on, and challenged him on his sketchy behavior. Revenus, expert player that he is, reached back in his bag of tricks for the "OMGUS everything and chainsaw for yourself until the sun comes up" strategy that only the most ELITE scum players can pull off to keep themselves alive due to it's subtlety and well known effectiveness in swaying the town - in the right hands.

Later on towards the end of Day One Revenus was under less pressure and posted less. Now, perhaps when His Revenus took a break from trying to control my
mind, I would have doubted my assessment of his power, and even viewed his behavior as emotional, newbie OMGUS. PERHAPS IF I WERE A LESSER MAN. I knew that's what he wants me to think. He was just brooding, switching from his highly effective "stay in the spotlight as much as possible like a scum mastermind" to the equally effective "stay out of the spotlight as much as possible like a scum mastermind".

Day 2, he kept an even lower profile. He came back claiming to have a real life - so implausible that I'm not even going to bother acknowledging such claims or checking if he posted elsewhere on site. No, Revenus is hiding. And he has to die today, or at least tomorrow. Do you know why? Because if you don't, Master Revenus will nightkill you.

And then, vig you for good measure

"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2667 (isolation #118) » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:40 am

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2646, chkflip wrote:
Day Two, Vote Count the 일곱 (NORTH KOREA IS INVADING!)


Velzanath (6): Pine, ThAdmiral, Revenus, sorgster, vijay2vasandani, Maxous
Revenus (4): bvoigt, Shattered Viewpoint, iamausername, Beck
theamatuer (3): ZeL1nk, Zdenek, Valzanath
sorgster (2): popsofctown, Sky
funkybike1 (1): theamatuer
Not voting (2): smargaret, DrippingGoofball

WITH NINETEEN ALIVE, IT'S TEN TO LYNCH.
DEADLINE: NOVEMBER 25TH @ 11PM PACIFIC STANDARD TIME.

smargaret how well is zdenekscum doing against the leading wagons. I'd love to see him hang but it's just not realistic. I'd rather keep my townread from dying rather than go for the 1% chance people stop ignoring me and sheep zdenekscumlynch.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2668 (isolation #119) » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:41 am

Post by popsofctown »

yeah i was ninja'ed, there's your answer.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2688 (isolation #120) » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:20 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 2672, smargaret wrote:So pops, you aren't willing to vote your scumread because he doesn't have a wagon, but instead of trying to build a wagon on your scumread, you vote your VI read (who there isn't really that much support for lynching, and most of it comes from your scumread).


You're being frustrating because you keep coming off like you're just not paying attention. tham is tucked away in a million FoS's, and I did a thorough job of pushing zdenek wagon day 1 to no avail.

@ Pine - Sorry, i probably could have formatted labelled better. But I don't have very much sympathy for anyone who can read the entirety of that post and think you wrote it.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2696 (isolation #121) » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:30 pm

Post by popsofctown »

unvote tham


it is a double standard. I didn't notice zden was on the wagon.

pine's case on tham was bad, but my own appraisal of his d1 activity puts him at a festering null. I was referring to a wagon, not the player. The resurgence has better reasoning.

We can consensus lynch Velz. He has claimed VT. And it does tell us things about Pine and zdenek.

But most importantly, when in doubt, sheep DGB.

Vote: Velz
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"

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