NY 176: Completely Ridiculous Mafia (Game Over)

[Cephrir]

VOTE: TheWayItEnds

I'm sorry, but this is the way it ends.

[Cephrir]

It turns out Narnia isn't a great place for aspiring writers. Not much audience.

[Cephrir]

notscience, why don't I know your alignment yet?

[Cephrir]

[Cephrir]

Oh god, my sides.

[Cephrir]

THERE'S NO MERO THIS GAME YOU TOOL.

stop the Mastin bullshit. Atleast you'll post more than she does.

Why are you so hostile on page 2?

[Cephrir]

vote bob

I would also vote AcBd if he is a wagon.

No reasoning provided on your initial vote, and yet you provided reasoning for an alternate vote that seems sheepy/scummy? tsk tsk

This is an observation I don't entirely disagree with!

Was wondering this myself, but I sort of decided it's a joke.

I initially brushed it off as a joke since I didn't recall seeing anything about a Night Zero, so I wanted to be sure there wasn't anything going on w/the comments about damning results.

Confused town or obfuscating scum? You decide! (Seriously though how many games have you played?)

oh and

VOTE: ap

Why?

VOTE: Aeronaut

Whats up, Aernaut? you seem like you are just along for the ride here, piggybacking off of other people's observations and comments. Is there anything interesting that stands out to you?

Why, yes there is. Glad you asked.

THERE'S NO MERO THIS GAME YOU TOOL.

stop the Mastin bullshit. Atleast you'll post more than she does.

Why are you so hostile on page 2?

Ya I noticed that too.

My first thought was "lolnero", but its definitely kind of overdone.

This AngryPigeons guy is piggybacking off of other people's observations! He must be noosed

*mastin hat*
I actually get a light townread from this post.

[Cephrir]

42 in particular bugs me. How is bringing a wagon to new heights "sustain"ing?

Is it really early enough to start nitpicking word choice.

[Cephrir]

oh and

VOTE: ap

Why?

he ain't kickin' in the frontseat
he's sittin' in the backseat
he gotta make his mind up
which seat will he take?

I see you haven't changed.

Well, actually, maybe a teensy bit.

[Cephrir]

People I am looking askance at: TSO, Bob, DJ, Aegor.

Tryin'a make my mind up, which one should I vote?

[Cephrir]

TWIE is really obviously at ease. Strongest townread. WHich means essentially zilch on page 5, but there it is all the same.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: TSO

[Cephrir]

Do you have a reason for those reads, Ceph? RVS is one thing, but you've now said those people are scummy, and voted for one. Why is TSO suspicious to you?

I don't know about "scummy" so much as they're not rubbing me the right way so far. As for TSO, I'd rather not share the entire reasoning behind that vote at this point, but disliking his posts is certainly part of it! (And there are only like 2 so this is left as an exercise for the reader).

[Cephrir]

People I am looking askance at: TSO, Bob, DJ, Aegor.

I don't quite get the Aegor one unless you think his whole "Im going to coast to lylo, deal with it trolls" is forced or something.

78/93 feel a little... silly? to me.

But it's not much.

[Cephrir]

(I also don't want to talk about what's bothering me about Bob so far because A) it's meta and B) I want to see how he develops naturally)

[Cephrir]

are you the sane head of twisted advice

Yes.

(I also don't want to talk about what's bothering me about Bob so far because A) it's meta and B) I want to see how he develops naturally)

Are you familiar with the Observer Effect?

No.

People I am looking askance at: TSO, Bob, DJ, Aegor.

I don't quite get the Aegor one unless you think his whole "Im going to coast to lylo, deal with it trolls" is forced or something.

78/93 feel a little... silly? to me.

But it's not much.

As far as we know, there wasn't a Night 0 or anything. I don't know why Aegor would know any more than we do, unless he's scum. Even if he was though, and he knew Toomai was scum, there'd be no reason to randomly bus Toomai during RVS.

Basically, I think it's a weird nullish action, for now.

Maybe so.

I don't think the fake night 0 shenanigans have anything to do with it, I just don't know how I feel about the tunnellyness

[Cephrir]

Actually Aegor, I think I can piece together what you mean by that.

I probably should have just shut up entirely.

[Cephrir]

are you the sane head of twisted advice

Yes.

boy do I feel clever

you don't have any scum meta on me, though

don't be like antihero in that game

We'll see.

[Cephrir]

I'm not a big fan of coincidences, the fact that you just happened to vote the person who voted you after missing the post he voted you in is kind of hard to swallow.

What's the scum motivation, though?

[Cephrir]

lynch lynch lynch

wagon wagon wagon

*takes off Chandra hat*

Lol, now I'm slipping alts that aren't even real alts.

Please delete this, I would like Carnage to remain a Tourist D:

[Cephrir]

Because reasons.

[Cephrir]

Too simplistic for my blood!

[Cephrir]

Ki-Gi probably has a town role PM. So that's nice.

[Cephrir]

Not yet. *notes down ideas for later*

[Cephrir]

This is gold. I hope TWIE and T S O aren't scum because they're comedic geniuses and I don't want them lynched.

Aren't you, you know, voting TSO at the moment?

unvote

Would you care to share any opinions with the class?

[Cephrir]

FWIW, I honestly think that Bob sometimes opens books to random pages in order to choose his next sentence.

[Cephrir]

Slightly VLA for a few days.

[Cephrir]

Wagons need momentum to be sustained. A sustained wagon breaks us out of RVS.

Sustaining also goes well with the Phoenix Wright jokes at the time. So Objection! to the suggestions by Toonami that this is scum motivated.

Okay I can buy this.

Unvote

I don't know where to go now though. I like Izariael for town based on the reads list but don't have much of anything else to do something with yet.

Have you read the mod's signature? What about it gives you a town read? I'm not disputing his alignment, but I arrived at this conclusion before he efforted up the thread.

[Cephrir]

What do you think of the debate over Bob? His behaviour has drawn votes, do you think those votes are justified?

I'm not sure. I've been having a hard time splitting the joking around from the gameplay so far.

This kinda happened in my previous game with Bob.

I don't think his general strangeness is alignment indicative (but I do think the way in which he is strange could be, and yes I know that was opaque sorry).

[Cephrir]

I don't want to ruin anything so for now I think I will merely refrain from sticking my big dumb nose into this.

[Cephrir]

I can explain why these are the answers if you want, but I think it's pretty obvious.

Giving a serious vote on somebody without reasoning whatsoever is scummy AF. If he was a cop, he wouldn't know anything at this point anyway. So we're all just allowing him to give us no information?

Why is this scummy? Ar eyou saying this if there are no reasons, or do the reasons count as not existing if they are simply not stated?

Are you attempting to react scummily, or ...?

Vote: reinoe

What was scumm about reinoe's reaction?

Please don't abbreviate me as "toon".

I'll never see it as referring to me and always end up confusingly re-reading posts.

Aegor's being a doofus, but it's null for now. If he continues to be a doofus as the game progresses then it'll be an issue.

reinoe's entrance is awful.

Vote: reinoe

I thought it was pretty null?

you literally asked for it

Oh you were trolling me with the "doc claim". Touche good sir. You win 7 internets.

Bicephalous isn't scum, but I'd still appreciate it if the scum team outed themselves.

So in a world where he was serious about it, he would be scum, but now that you know he wasn't, that makes him town? Why would that be alignment indicative?

That's just him being scum, Bob.

@Aeronaught, Aegor, Mirhawk, TheWayItEnds, Toomai, BicephalousBob, Boonskiies, and CABD...

Does this remind you of my scumgame(s) that you've seen before?

WIFOM. You could have just decided that you're going to act differently this time. The fact that you used it as a defense nulls it, and is a bit scummy to me actually.

Reinoe, everyone, is using the "too scummy to be scum approach." Reinoe likes to mix up his game each time by having a completely different playstyle. He even named all of his playstyles in a recent mafia discussion post.

FOS: Reinoe

Aegor still concerns me, and he needs to speak soon. Reinoe could be trying to cover up his role... I'm not voting him right now, because I'm don't have a lot of time to look through both their posts again. Will probably post again tonight

I don't know if I'm allowed to link a post that's not in a game, or if I'm even supposed to talk about it. If the latter, Mod please delete this post.

I feel like a broken record, but if you know that reinoe mixes up her playstyle every game intentionally, why would one particular playstyle be scummy?

[Cephrir]

Aaaaand that's pretty much it for my presence in this game for today/tomorrow.

[Cephrir]

I'm back, bitches! Now for a series of catchup quotestripes in which I respond to shit from 10 pages ago that no one cares about anymore.

....
Alright, well something shitty is going on here. I don't know if we're missing something, but someone who is pushing for a mislynch is obviously not helping us... I've seen Aegor's town game, even his cop game, and this isn't it.

VOTE: Aegor

Start providing real information, please.

I was flailing. I hate early Day 1s and have difficulty forming scumreads on so little information. So, my answer is "experimentation." I was hoping for more interesting reactions to my "slip," but at least I got some. I am townreading you slightly more./quote]
For leaping to a silly conclusion rather than the obvious one (i.e. that you were trolling and or reaction testing)? How is that town (or anything)?

Because posting scummy things in order to look not scummy means he's scum.

Do you think the game is currently not in serious mode? If it is, what post do you think kicked off serious mode?

It's a spectrum; I don't think I can define it by pointing to specific posts. Page 10 was pretty serious mode, but when reinoe made his entrance on late 11 it regressed back into silly mode. I'm not sure what the town motivation for doing so would be, because it just creates a distraction.

So in retrospect I guess I do consider reinoe scummy for it.

Oh my god this post blows. If reinoe had been playing all along you might have a leg to stand on, but I imagine he probably was always going to troll upon entry regardless of role pm or game state. I'm of the mind that just because something has no town motivation doesn't mean it necessarily comes from scum. I have no reason to have any feelings about reinoe one way or the other at this point, except that I'm starting to lean a little town simply because there are so many dreadful attacks being tossed his way that I imagine some of them are scum.

Also, the "in retrospect" line tweaks my gut pretty hard.

I'm finding TSO's behavior kind of offputting. It seems to be mostly snark and jokes, with very little effort being put into looking for scum.

FWIW, I think that is just null for TSO.

I'm looking for something from TSO. I don't see it yet.

Have you read the mod's signature? What about it gives you a town read? I'm not disputing his alignment, but I arrived at this conclusion before he efforted up the thread.

Eesh, well +townpoints to you for seeing the same thing I did. I agree its a little weird the way Toomai just calls it town and expects that to fly without reasoning. Granted the reasoning seems implicit, but that is kind of weak and I don't really like Toomai just asserting it and leaving it there. Easy read to have and its not exactly going against the grain either.

IAgreeWithThisPoster.jpg

I don't want to ruin anything so for now I think I will merely refrain from sticking my big dumb nose into this.

I expect a follow up on this later, don't let me forget to ask.

I was observing that Aegor was obviously being silly, but since some players didn't seem to realize this, I didn't blow his reaction test as was my first inclination. I'm ordinarily remarkably stupid that way, to the point where this was actually a question.

Reinoe's lackadaisical approach to this game strikes me as someone who got a towncard and isn't afraid to just mess around for the fun of it. Also his case on Bob over rolefishing was really OMGUSy but in general I expect that concern about rolefishing to come from town more than scum. Also I just generally don't like any of the names on his wagon right now.

Toomai's presence in this game has been lackluster and I didn't really like his response to Aegor. He seems to realize that Aegor is trolling (possibly for the sake of garnering a reaction) and Toomai's response really felt like it was missing the obvious and choosing to respond to things that are easy to point out. So like strawmanning to a degreee although thats not really the term Im looking for. The response sort of stripped away any consideration of the context of what Aegor was doing and focused on shooting down obviously dummy points. so ya strawmanning to a degree. Not that Aegor has a great case to speak of, but the lack of emotional response to Aegor from Toomai just rings wrong.

Hey AP, can you remind me if we've played a game together other than Tales of You and ny165? I'm liking your perspective on basically everything here but I remember thinking your posts in Tales were prima facia pretty town as well, and I don't remember whether I've seen town you before or not.

What about the reads list looked town to you? Or was it just the effort that went into such a post?

It was more the way he was trying to push the game into serious mode than the reads themselves. I'd expect scum to continue letting the game float along without direction.

Toomai's presence in this game has been lackluster

HOLY COW YOU NAILED IT

Not that Aegor has a great case to speak of, but the lack of emotional response to Aegor from Toomai just rings wrong.

Emotional responses don't get me anywhere.

You were a lot better the last time I saw you, and certainly not one I'd have thought would be given to capslocking. All this garbage about "serious/silly mode" is annoying.

Cephrir, I fail to understand how you could -not- get a scumread from reinoe's entrance.

Trolling != scum

[Cephrir]

Now with halfway decent tags.

I'm back, bitches! Now for a series of catchup quotestripes in which I respond to shit from 10 pages ago that no one cares about anymore.

....
Alright, well something shitty is going on here. I don't know if we're missing something, but someone who is pushing for a mislynch is obviously not helping us... I've seen Aegor's town game, even his cop game, and this isn't it.

VOTE: Aegor

Start providing real information, please.

I was flailing. I hate early Day 1s and have difficulty forming scumreads on so little information. So, my answer is "experimentation." I was hoping for more interesting reactions to my "slip," but at least I got some. I am townreading you slightly more.

For leaping to a silly conclusion rather than the obvious one (i.e. that you were trolling and or reaction testing)? How is that town (or anything)?

Because posting scummy things in order to look not scummy means he's scum.

Do you think the game is currently not in serious mode? If it is, what post do you think kicked off serious mode?

It's a spectrum; I don't think I can define it by pointing to specific posts. Page 10 was pretty serious mode, but when reinoe made his entrance on late 11 it regressed back into silly mode. I'm not sure what the town motivation for doing so would be, because it just creates a distraction.

So in retrospect I guess I do consider reinoe scummy for it.

Oh my god this post blows. If reinoe had been playing all along you might have a leg to stand on, but I imagine he probably was always going to troll upon entry regardless of role pm or game state. I'm of the mind that just because something has no town motivation doesn't mean it necessarily comes from scum. I have no reason to have any feelings about reinoe one way or the other at this point, except that I'm starting to lean a little town simply because there are so many dreadful attacks being tossed his way that I imagine some of them are scum.

Also, the "in retrospect" line tweaks my gut pretty hard.

I'm finding TSO's behavior kind of offputting. It seems to be mostly snark and jokes, with very little effort being put into looking for scum.

FWIW, I think that is just null for TSO.

I'm looking for something from TSO. I don't see it yet.

Have you read the mod's signature? What about it gives you a town read? I'm not disputing his alignment, but I arrived at this conclusion before he efforted up the thread.

Eesh, well +townpoints to you for seeing the same thing I did. I agree its a little weird the way Toomai just calls it town and expects that to fly without reasoning. Granted the reasoning seems implicit, but that is kind of weak and I don't really like Toomai just asserting it and leaving it there. Easy read to have and its not exactly going against the grain either.

IAgreeWithThisPoster.jpg

I don't want to ruin anything so for now I think I will merely refrain from sticking my big dumb nose into this.

I expect a follow up on this later, don't let me forget to ask.

I was observing that Aegor was obviously being silly, but since some players didn't seem to realize this, I didn't blow his reaction test as was my first inclination. I'm ordinarily remarkably stupid that way, to the point where this was actually a question.

Reinoe's lackadaisical approach to this game strikes me as someone who got a towncard and isn't afraid to just mess around for the fun of it. Also his case on Bob over rolefishing was really OMGUSy but in general I expect that concern about rolefishing to come from town more than scum. Also I just generally don't like any of the names on his wagon right now.

Toomai's presence in this game has been lackluster and I didn't really like his response to Aegor. He seems to realize that Aegor is trolling (possibly for the sake of garnering a reaction) and Toomai's response really felt like it was missing the obvious and choosing to respond to things that are easy to point out. So like strawmanning to a degreee although thats not really the term Im looking for. The response sort of stripped away any consideration of the context of what Aegor was doing and focused on shooting down obviously dummy points. so ya strawmanning to a degree. Not that Aegor has a great case to speak of, but the lack of emotional response to Aegor from Toomai just rings wrong.

Hey AP, can you remind me if we've played a game together other than Tales of You and ny165? I'm liking your perspective on basically everything here but I remember thinking your posts in Tales were prima facia pretty town as well, and I don't remember whether I've seen town you before or not.

What about the reads list looked town to you? Or was it just the effort that went into such a post?

It was more the way he was trying to push the game into serious mode than the reads themselves. I'd expect scum to continue letting the game float along without direction.

Toomai's presence in this game has been lackluster

HOLY COW YOU NAILED IT

Not that Aegor has a great case to speak of, but the lack of emotional response to Aegor from Toomai just rings wrong.

Emotional responses don't get me anywhere.

You were a lot better the last time I saw you, and certainly not one I'd have thought would be given to capslocking. All this garbage about "serious/silly mode" is annoying.

Cephrir, I fail to understand how you could -not- get a scumread from reinoe's entrance.

Trolling != scum

[Cephrir]

, Aegor are you cheeky scum this game? I'm really starting to worry about that. I don't recall you being so cheeky ever before.

I am not scum! This game needs a serious kick in the pants. Maybe a lurker flashwagon. May I suggest Kid A?

For what it's worth, AP is simply going to call everything I do scummy - if you want to listen to him, great, but I'm not going to respond to his twisting. Anyone else is okay.

I'm not sure why but this post rings town to me?

Nope, no meta. I don't like meta.

My secret tell is that I scum read people for not being town.

I nailed you in 172 because you made like 3 posts that I took as tantamount to scum claims.

And your posts on the last page are atrocious.

Huh, interesting. I know how I expect AP to respond to some of these points, while a couple of the first ones are better... more on this as it develops.

[Cephrir]

I genuinely think reinoe is either ballsy enough or stupid enough to play "too stupid to be scum" as scum.

I have ~reasons~ to think reinoe slot is town.

Actually let's just talk about this openly:

Jimmy_Raynor's scum game in the newbie game I modded was pretty much him winning by his prior slot owner replacing out in a townish manner and people giving him towncred. While this replace out was more neutral, natural, and something not aimed at sinking any town cred. Thoguhts? The game was newbie 1513: Lingo Linguistics.

I'll have to get replaced, I don't have neither the patience nor the skill to analyze 16 pages, Here are my reads, For the little it matters:

BBMolla:Scum - Lurking and not very helpfull posts
Thor:Null-Scum - Look BBMolla
Mollie:Town - Discussions at everything to view reactions
Anenien:Null-Town
Drew-Sta:Null-Scum
Vettrock:Null-Town
Stabs:Town
Rob:Null

^This was the slot's prior owner's last post that got towncred.

This does exactly nothing for me. I think TSO's assessment in 396 of your hidden train of thought is probably spot on here, and I am not even slightly willing to give reinoe towncred for something his predecessor failed to copy. Also, why are you focusing so much on things that aren't happening? I'd like to hear what you think about things that actually are happening.

Well I'm pretty upset for ~reasons~ atm, but I'll talk to you.

[wall ensues]

A) This actually didn't spring for the obvious answers I expected it to, and as such was a better response than I expected.
B) I'm probably being obnoxious by mentioning it at all a day later, and I have no idea what this refers to, but...

Nero, that is a hydra with Titus isn't it. Don't deny it, who else would come up with such a name for a hydra?

This is like 90% what is going on here.

You haven't read the thread at all, but you somehow saw me vote you and responded to that within the hour and nothing else. So if you haven't read the thread, why would you skip ahead to that post (which was NOT the most recent post) and hit that instantly before jumping back to the other stuff?

I sometimes criticize you for doing nothing when you're town.

Here so far, you aren't doing nothing, you're just doing things I don't care about. Pls to be towning up thread now thx

[Cephrir]

I hope this KG/DJ argument ends soon, it's boring me to tears.

[Cephrir]

Can we lynch nero yet and put mollie out of her misery? She's probably complaining and freaking out in the scum PT or whatnot about how much she hates being scum an at how it''s driving her crazy. GM's probably tired of reading it too.

If it's mollie she isn't posting. Their posts have capital letters.

K well enjoy misreading probable scum then.

Okay blissy, tell me why I should reconsider.

He called KiGi scum for pushing an easy target. An easy target that he also happens to think is scummy and would wagon. When called out on this he speculates about Multiball and then immediately backpedals into "Well actually Id just lynch them both anyways".

Hes scum, bro.

This is kinda a point I guess. I didn't notice it happening at the time, I should probably look myself.

miri is scum
ki-gi is prob scum
AP is prob scum if Ki-Gi is

Ap seems town but that Ki-Gi connection is hard to ignore
ren is town
I guess Aegor is town

Mir is scum? Since when? Tell me about that (this may or may not be an attempt to get you to talk about anything at all that isn't Ki-Gi)

@Cephrawr: I was town in Xenosaga. I was technically in a hydra with BRO, but 99% of that posting was me.

Rawr! I'll probably be too lazy to brush up and try to figure out the difference but I'll remember that.

oh please Cephhy don't go for a secret tell on me

Or at least tell me what it is

It's pretty basic and probably unfounded as it's pretty much completely based on FEA.

B) I'm probably being obnoxious by mentioning it at all a day later, and I have no idea what this refers to, but...

I misvoted a mason in lylo. I mean its not as bad as that sounds, but still fuck everything. Also muffin and Cabd are upset at me over it and I feel like I disappointed ffery.

Oh. I expected worse, but hugs anyway. I forbid you from getting all down on yourself about mafia.

[Cephrir]

I feel so loved <3

[Cephrir]

Quick and sloppy reads:

Bob: Need more data
Toomai: Leaning scum, mostly for being way worse than the last time I played with him
MVP: Leaning scum because notscience is in this hydra and it's not posting
Ki-Gi: Lean town for things unrelated to the page 18-20 fight, which I barely read.
Cephrir: apparently the darling of the thread <3
Izzy: Probably town since page 5, nothing has changed
reinoe: Slight town lean. Passionate about TSO, and got some pretty unwarranted flak from scumreads.
DJ: Leaning scum for boring me
Aegor: Townish
Aeronaut: Townish
Cabd: Need more data, please do things I care about
TSO: Leaning scum
Mirhawk: Null, feels absent
TWIE: Obvtown
AP: Town

[Cephrir]

I don't think that's his objective even if scum.

[Cephrir]

1 < 10-15.

Um, you aren't very good at math, are you?

[Cephrir]

I told you so.

[Cephrir]

Yes, because boring votes about us being useless makes us want to be less useless

pedit-

Where's your vote then?

[Cephrir]

Put not science on the phone please.

This.

[Cephrir]

Okay, so what am I doing differently? I don't know. I can't tell. I'm not capable of recognizing any playstyle other than "is playing the game".
What game are you even referencing? I thought I replaced out of the game I played with you in it.

I'm referring to, uh... NY 167 I think? IIRC you were very methodical and logical but clearly townie, and that's not happening for me here

[Cephrir]

This jungle dweller feels that unflipped associatives are a waste of time.

[Cephrir]

It's called digging for votes, and it's probably being used for good here, even though I hate it.

[Cephrir]

Might want to throw in other meta points besides "lol ns is lurking and thats what ns does as scum"

As far as I know, this is actually a pretty concrete tell, though.

Besides, there isn't anything else to meta, because you aren't doing anything.

[Cephrir]

If lurking is so scummy to you why is your sole focus an me and you are ignoring the shit out of MVP?

Maybe the game would be less boring if you were doing something other then lurking and spamming up the thread?

Actually don't. This is leading to your death and that's fine.

...

[Cephrir]

OK, I'm about to go to the store to buy a bottle of wine. Let me know when the town is ready to get serious about lynching scum. And by scum I mean these people...


[Toomai, TSO, one of Depraved Justice/MVP]

I'm not sure if I should townread you for this, or accuse you of exactly copying my lynchpool.

[Cephrir]

Okay, so what am I doing differently? I don't know. I can't tell. I'm not capable of recognizing any playstyle other than "is playing the game".
What game are you even referencing? I thought I replaced out of the game I played with you in it.

I'm referring to, uh... NY 167 I think?

Okay I kinda remember now.

I think the cause of my problems with this game is that I was modding NY175 when it began and was stuck in "read, don't bother thinking" mode. Apparently I'm not capable of both modding and playing at the same time, and now I'm kind of stuck in cluelessland because of it.

Right now my "reads" are looking something like this. I put "reads" in "fingerquotes" because I can't really tell if they're actually my reads, or a subconscious amalgam of everyone's reads, or a combo of both. I'm still attempting to actually find a way to crowbar a foothold into the game.

• townest
  
  
• Izariael, AP
  
  
• Cephrir
  
  
• Aegor, TheWayItEnds
  
  
• Cabd, Mirhawk
  
  
• Ki-Gi, DJ, Aeronaut, TSO
  
  
• MVP, reinoe
  
  
• BBob
  
  
• scummest

I might attempt later to look for specific posts that garnered these "reads".

This post actually strikes me as remarkably honest. I'll be interested to see where this goes.

I've caught scum in reinoe. What about you?

Hint: constantly defending yourself isn't useful.

I have mixed feelings about this.

VOTE: MVP

[Cephrir]

This post actually strikes me as remarkably honest. I'll be interested to see where this goes.

To analyze myself a bit, I think I like it because it's something I would probably not say as scum, the whole bit about not being sure if his reads are real. Even though prima facia it looks like a lame excuse.

[Cephrir]

Your attempts to try and discredit the TSO case is noted.

This doesn't sound like you are town reading TWIE. And yet, the three posts he just made were all pretty town. So what gives?

[Cephrir]

Second of all, fuck your townread. You have like what? 4 on topic posts? I'm not sure that I can adequately describe how little your opinion of me currently matters.

(Hint: Anyone who wants to fuck with me in future games, do this and I will instantly townread you)

[Cephrir]

*sticks nose into conversation*

Soooo.... you advocating vig shots is the be all end all of this game?

What?

*removes nose gingerly, but breaks china anyway*

[Cephrir]

I suppose it's more of a snout, actually.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir, I don't get your stance on this whatsoever, by the way.

I have a stance on this?

[Cephrir]

God, this backandforth is really tedious. I think Nero is town. This just feels like the exact sort of stuff I'd expect Nero to post.

Tell me more?

[Cephrir]

I said I'm going to be proactive from now on.

You call me scum for not immediately doing it in the same post.

Just shut up.

Hey TSO 48 hrs; and still no pro-activity. Instead you give us that fake frustration bullshit.

To be fair, he's not going to have a chance to be until you quit breathing down his throat for five seconds.

[Cephrir]

Fuck your townread on me, Cephrir. It doesn't make any sense .

<3

Cephrir, I don't get your stance on this whatsoever, by the way.

I have a stance on this?

You were talking to both me and reinoe when I was arguing that when I said I was going to start posting content, reinoe's scumread on me for not immediately doing so was rubbish. Despite this, I never really felt your opinion was shared on the matter - but you seem to have posted it now.

My opinion is/was as follows:
-I thought you were a bit on the scum side before the whole fiasco, and that reinoe was meh.
-I now feel slightly better about you because <reasons>
-reinoe has not changed my opinion re: him basically being a troll
-...but his hovering over you and expecting you to accomplish anything in the meantime was unfair.

God, this backandforth is really tedious. I think Nero is town. This just feels like the exact sort of stuff I'd expect Nero to post.

Tell me more?

About Nero?

While I disagree with his posts about KiGi, it just makes sense in my head that Nero is pushing that. Its exactly the sort of thing I could see Nero giving a shit about as town. Gut? I don't really know how better to explain that. Ya its a bit OMGUSy, but that is sort of part of the picture. Nero wants to inject himself into the game, Nero sees what he perceives is someone throwing mud at him. Nero decides person is scum and attempts to get into the game by talking about them and defending himself. I realize I'm sort of creating a narrative that leads to the conclusion of Nero town, but that is what I see right now. Its not the strongest read ever, but I'm interested in leaving him alone for now.

Shit like "How is mollie supposed to post when she isn't in this hydra" makes me want to kill myself though.

I don't know how to tell Nero's alignment. I know a little bit about what he tends to do, and I think I tend to find his posts slightly more detail-oriented/nitpicky/generally not fun to read as town, but limited experience. I appreciate the attempt to explain.

no? I think Reinoe is clearly trolling and even if he's not then I don't really suspect him nor am I calling AP scum for answering a question/giving his two cents. (as you are implying) I only think he's scummy if Ki-Gi flips scum.

If your take away from my ki's convo is that I'm mad that he doesn't suspect AP then either I haven't done a good job of explaining why I suspect him or you are just flat out not reading and I'm going with door #2 here.

I also don't think I've been active lurking at all. I think I was inactive this game and then CABD lead the derpy charge that I was scummy for this and now everyone (including yourself) is piggybacking that argument.

You're door two option feels right for a reason. Mostly because I don't really care about what you and KI-Gi were talking about. My impression from that entire line of dialog was that you were pursuing a silly line of reasoning, and were trying very hard to make it look serious.

Your reaction to him not answering the question was also way out of proportion to the offense. I would have expected you to maybe ask him the question again, or ask if agreed with the other answer or something like that. Not go in all out attack mode and demand answers while simultaneously insinuating that it was scummy to allow others to "intrude" on your conversation.

I also don't like that you're distancing yourself from the lurking point. Calling it "Cabd's derpy change" is a soft discredit on what was a very valid point. You weren't posting, then you showed up to respond when you were mentioned. Claiming you hadn't read the game only makes this look worse as that makes it even less likely that you could just happen to notice the post you were mentioned in.

if this was how you felt why did you wait to post about it and not say this in 451?

I was feeling snarkier then I had been in 514. Also I had to go back and dig up that quote of you demanding that Ki-Gi had to be offended by someone else answering his question.

Reinoe vs TSO is town on town. They just don't like each other in general. It's who's on their wagons that I'm interested in. Lets take a look.

reinoe [L-5]

- Bicephalous Bob, T S O, Toomai

T S O [L-6]

- Ki-Gi, reinoe

Yea, I think it's time for a Toomai lynch. Ki-gi being there sort of worries me.

VOTE: Toomai

Why do you think it's town on town, and more importantly, why do you think everyone else should necessarily have arrived at the same conclusion? Seems like an arbitrary assumption.

but you were fine with folks breathing down my neck, So explain the difference?

The difference is that you could get a post in edgewise and weren't literally being called scum every ten minutes on the dot.

{you, ap, aegor (I changed my mind about keeping him)} are my favorite lynch subjects

I would think that, given that these reads are nowhere near anyone else's, you'd have felt compelled to explain them at some point.

@Cephir
How do you think someone should respond to 435?

Dunno what the point of this is, but I'd probably have given a one-word response, yes or no. Possibly with a joke thrown in. I say this without remembering how you responded.

Will any of these suspicions on me turn into votes? They are kind of bland right now.

My current lynchpool is {DJ, Toomai, Ki-Gi}

Opinion on MVP?

He can go, but after Toomai.


VOTE: Toomai

Did the self conscious post not strike a chord with you? I'm surprised that post is getting called null, I would really expect that bit to ping one way or the other, but this makes three people who've called it null I think. o.o

Cephrir is not only trying to have no opinion on anything, but he's pretty much flat out saying that that's what he's doing. Nobody seems to care though.

I gave a reads list. I therefore have opinions about most of the players. I'm simply choosing not to remind everyone of what those opinions are every time I post, and am playing in a somewhat hands-off manner.

[Cephrir]

Fuck quote tags. Another post slipped in there too, but if I was going to do something with it, I no longer recall what it was.

Fuck your townread on me, Cephrir. It doesn't make any sense .

<3

Cephrir, I don't get your stance on this whatsoever, by the way.

I have a stance on this?

You were talking to both me and reinoe when I was arguing that when I said I was going to start posting content, reinoe's scumread on me for not immediately doing so was rubbish. Despite this, I never really felt your opinion was shared on the matter - but you seem to have posted it now.

My opinion is/was as follows:
-I thought you were a bit on the scum side before the whole fiasco, and that reinoe was meh.
-I now feel slightly better about you because <reasons>
-reinoe has not changed my opinion re: him basically being a troll
-...but his hovering over you and expecting you to accomplish anything in the meantime was unfair.

God, this backandforth is really tedious. I think Nero is town. This just feels like the exact sort of stuff I'd expect Nero to post.

Tell me more?

About Nero?

While I disagree with his posts about KiGi, it just makes sense in my head that Nero is pushing that. Its exactly the sort of thing I could see Nero giving a shit about as town. Gut? I don't really know how better to explain that. Ya its a bit OMGUSy, but that is sort of part of the picture. Nero wants to inject himself into the game, Nero sees what he perceives is someone throwing mud at him. Nero decides person is scum and attempts to get into the game by talking about them and defending himself. I realize I'm sort of creating a narrative that leads to the conclusion of Nero town, but that is what I see right now. Its not the strongest read ever, but I'm interested in leaving him alone for now.

Shit like "How is mollie supposed to post when she isn't in this hydra" makes me want to kill myself though.

I don't know how to tell Nero's alignment. I know a little bit about what he tends to do, and I think I tend to find his posts slightly more detail-oriented/nitpicky/generally not fun to read as town, but limited experience. I appreciate the attempt to explain.

Reinoe vs TSO is town on town. They just don't like each other in general. It's who's on their wagons that I'm interested in. Lets take a look.

reinoe [L-5]

- Bicephalous Bob, T S O, Toomai

T S O [L-6]

- Ki-Gi, reinoe

Yea, I think it's time for a Toomai lynch. Ki-gi being there sort of worries me.

VOTE: Toomai

Why do you think it's town on town, and more importantly, why do you think everyone else should necessarily have arrived at the same conclusion? Seems like an arbitrary assumption.

but you were fine with folks breathing down my neck, So explain the difference?

The difference is that you could get a post in edgewise and weren't literally being called scum every ten minutes on the dot.

{you, ap, aegor (I changed my mind about keeping him)} are my favorite lynch subjects

I would think that, given that these reads are nowhere near anyone else's, you'd have felt compelled to explain them at some point.

@Cephir
How do you think someone should respond to 435?

Dunno what the point of this is, but I'd probably have given a one-word response, yes or no. Possibly with a joke thrown in. I say this without remembering how you responded.

Will any of these suspicions on me turn into votes? They are kind of bland right now.

My current lynchpool is {DJ, Toomai, Ki-Gi}

Opinion on MVP?

He can go, but after Toomai.


VOTE: Toomai

Did the self conscious post not strike a chord with you? I'm surprised that post is getting called null, I would really expect that bit to ping one way or the other, but this makes three people who've called it null I think. o.o

Cephrir is not only trying to have no opinion on anything, but he's pretty much flat out saying that that's what he's doing. Nobody seems to care though.

I gave a reads list. I therefore have opinions about most of the players. I'm simply choosing not to remind everyone of what those opinions are every time I post, and am playing in a somewhat hands-off manner.

[Cephrir]

I would think that, given that these reads are nowhere near anyone else's, you'd have felt compelled to explain them at some point.

as I said, the people in that pool aren't exactly incredible scumreads as much as it'd-be-nice-if-these-people-disappeared reads, although there's a good chance that there's some scum in it

I'd still like it if you'd share with the class, I can't see your thought process unless you actually post it

[Cephrir]

TSO, I'm not trying to be snarky or anything but what did you expect from post 765? Honestly, I didn't have the giveadarn to do more than skim it loosely and it looks like you are just reiterating some IIoA about what Reinoe by quoting his entire iso and summarizing it. Did you honestly expect that post to sway people into voting Reinoe?

Meh, yes. I thought if I showed reinoe's a hypocrite who constantly engages in awful play and knows trolling causes townreads, it might sway people, but I guess the link between trolling and town is too strong to break. Maybe in my next scumgame I'll troll and Cephrir will townread me.

Feel free to find where I said reinoe is town.

[Cephrir]

Fine.

I've adjusted.

[Cephrir]

if I'd rather lynch Izariael or Ceph

Why Ceph? This sorta seems like his useless/trolling town meta[...]

You saw that post, thought it indicated a desire to lynch those players, and only took issue with the one?

Also, D:<

[Cephrir]

too adorable to scumread ever*

:3

[Cephrir]

if I'd rather lynch Izariael or Ceph

Why Ceph? This sorta seems like his useless/trolling town meta[...]

You saw that post, thought it indicated a desire to lynch those players, and only took issue with the one?

Also, D:<

yes, I misread it but why would I take issue with lynching IZ if I don't care about that slot?

You probably should take issue with that, he is fairly town. :/

[Cephrir]

I'm voting MVP at least 80% because notscience is lurking.

I have seen it be that simple too many times.

[Cephrir]

^Explain this please?

[Cephrir]

Which I haven' tbeen doing for days

Yes you are.

[Cephrir]

[Cephrir]

I doubt I would vote for reinoe or TSO today. In fact I rather they both push their secondary suspects.

One of us has actually done this because tunnelvision is bad and there's more than one scum this game. Also...

The reason nobody can answer that is because DJ is scum.

MVP [L-2] - TheWayItEnds, Cabd, Cephrir, AngryPidgeon, Aegor, reinoe

reinoe [L-4] - Bicephalous Bob, Toomai,

Depraved Justice,

T S O

Toomai [L-6] - Mirhawk, Aeronaut

T S O [L-7] - Ki-Gi

Mirhawk [L-7] - MVP

Not Voting [1] - Izariael

What's your opinion of your scumread being on my wagon?

Hey Ki-Gi...

I have more confidence in T S O or DJ who I have witnessed actually being opportunistic and attempting to manipulate the town.

MVP [L-2] - TheWayItEnds, Cabd, Cephrir, AngryPidgeon, Aegor, reinoe

reinoe [L-4] - Bicephalous Bob, Toomai,

Depraved Justice, T S O

Toomai [L-6] - Mirhawk, Aeronaut

T S O [L-7] - Ki-Gi

Mirhawk [L-7] - MVP

Not Voting [1] - Izariael

What do you think about your scumreads being on my wagon?

[Cephrir]

Please, someone enlighten me about why Cabd's questions were necessary, critical or even helpful, and why it was so scummy to call them fluffy AFTER they'd been answered. Because my understanding of the questions is as follows:

"Do you think the game is currently not in serious mode?"
I don't see how an answer here would have been alignment-indicative.

This may be a valid criticism. He also may be able to answer what he was trying to get at.

*looks at Cabd*

[Cephrir]

Perhaps there's something there and reinoe sees it, but if so, you and I both seem to not be getting it.

[Cephrir]

Do MVP and Cephrir make any sense as scum together?

What the fuck are you smoking

[Cephrir]

I think I'm balancing out to slightly above null on Toomai. I don't like 966 though.

[Cephrir]

Cabd/whoever supported this claim, please tell me more about how there is no way reinoe is scum

[Cephrir]

#3) I also don't like how you went from voting Cabd to town-reading him in post 519, without ever giving a reason for your townread on him.

I haven't checked whether this happened (hi my name is Cephrir I'm lazy) but awesome catch.

Izzy is the townest town that ever towned a town, for those of you keeping score at home.

[Cephrir]

#5)

This sequence of events:
A) 856 You unvote MVP when reinoe pushed him to L-1 saying "you're not ready for a claim from MVP yet."
B) 879 You vote reinoe

I am not voting you because of meta Reinoe. I am voting you because your votes suck and I want to see what happens. I don't find it merely coincidental that most rveryone ignored my vote but for your omgus and Toonami.

You mean his vote on the MVP wagon you were just a part of?

You still have not explained your vote on MVP. What was so bad in those two pages?

I do like that you asked him to explain his reasoning, but the fact that you were just voting for MVP and then telling reinoe that his vote on MVP sucks rubs me the wrong way.
C) 927 You were pushing me to vote onto the reinoe wagon. Which, between him and MVP, was my choice regardless, but this is inconsistent with your actions afterward
D) 980 You're suddenly "50/50" on reinoe, and from the discussion 927 and 980 this makes absolutely no sense to me. At all. Then you go and do something even more ridiculous and re-vote MVP:

So I'm moving my vote back to its rightful place.

vote:MVP

But wait? This vote pushes him back to L-1? Well isn't that convenient for you?

#6)

983 While I think questioning the motives behind hammering is a good practice, it's hysterically laughable that you had the audacity to do so just moments after voting MVP to L-1.

*logicgasm*

[Cephrir]

DJ, your defense to the points I like seems to be more than hydra dis-- it looks to me like "my hydra partner and I have no communication whatsoever to the point where they move my votes without consulting me".

Seeing as the whole point of a hydra is to have someone to bounce scumreads off who you know is town, and having seen my own communication levels in town and scum hydras, I am not a fan. It's worth noting that I didn't even think both of your heads were posting, so obviously, I cannot tell you apart. You could easily be making up a second head entirely to explain away scummy behavior from my perspective (but I doubt this is the case).

Your move back to MVP as though you never rethought it at all doesn't smell right to me.

[Cephrir]

I didn't/don't think you're a possible lynch for today, so this statement is silly.

So what, I was just supposed to sit there and let you mislynch me with a flawed case?

I believe this claim for mod meta reasons. goodmorning was the backup mod to my NY175, which involved two Even-Night and two Odd-Night roles paired up to mess with each other. Since this game went into the mod queue ten days after NY175 began, potential is strong for gm to have taken a few ideas from my setup.

That's not mod meta, though. That's someone else's mod meta. At any rate, I have no particular feelings one way or the other on the claim.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Reinoe

I think I got Titus's terrible crumb bug. The claim is good but for the misunderstanding. I will need to talk with Nero but pretty sure he is fine with this.

What's good about it?

[Cephrir]

(When I say I have no particular feelings-- I know GM has run gunsmiths before, but I also think MVP was in that game?)

[Cephrir]

Also if we get to be alive until D3, we're scanning Cabd N2.

MVP's behavior...helping out while avoiding the spotlight has been consistent with a gs.

As for the hydra, we have been consulting. We have consulted but we disagree on things. The scumread we agree on (Mirhawk) is unlikely to be lynched. So we have agreed to put our vote where useful and reasses daily. I learned a fair amount suggesting Reinoe is scum based on people selecting Reinoe over MVP.

Helping out? When did that happen o.o

I don't know how putting your vote where it's useful adds up to the weird movements that have been pointed out. I feel like this is brushing the point aside, but I'm starting to lose track of the whole argument.

Cabd/whoever supported this claim, please tell me more about how there is no way reinoe is scum

That was partially me. Cabd and I just got out of an open game where we were scum with Reinoe. He is just a bit notably different than he was there. He was all business there and rather pointed all the time. Here he is being more loose, light hearted, and trolly. Doesn't make him town, but I definitely empathize with Cabd's perspective on it, having just experienced a Reinoe that was different and scum. Overall though, I'm not really townreading Reinoe? I guess I have him as VERY null scum; I have reads that I actually feel confident about elsewhere. I'd give lynching Reinoe more priority than normal for the sake of shutting people up/policy though.

Wait.

Wait.

Waitwaitwait.

reinoe is Lord Business?

That doesn't have any super powerful effect on me, but it's interesting to say the least.

Still don't think it's a great reason to give him a pass, but I guess I can see why Sir Meta could be tempted to do it.

Ugh I'm beat; today was zero-day for SSB4 leaks.

<out of game> Oh my god, Im so excited for this you have no idea. I cant believe Duck hunt is going to be in the game </out of game>

<----future Bowser Jr main is so, so hype

But unlike you and Toomai, I think MVP is viable.

Why dont you think Toomai is viable? I know Aegor and I have been talking about that most of the game Day.

He has a good number of defenders I think, possibly including myself (albeit largely out of preference for MVP/DJ/reinoe)

I haven't checked whether this happened (hi my name is Cephrir I'm lazy) but awesome catch.

Ok this is getting awkward. You point out the exact same things I do and thats been happening all game >.>

That's because we're both town. (For those of you keeping score at home, this AP is not Tales of You AP. It just isn't)

[Cephrir]

There are a few things I find intrinsically scummy about the claim. Firstly, Gunsmith is ~generally~ a safe claim to make. Its unlikely to get counter claimed most of the time, and there are very few roles that can even soft CC it. A cop in the game interacts with the GS, so that sort of supports it. We have MVP making a relatively unlikely claim that is unlikely to get countered if false. Now, I know GS has used gunsmiths before. Waiiiit, I just looked at the endgame list and I can't tell, bit I could have sworn there was a GS in that game. Cabd/Ceph can one of you help me out here? Or did Cowbells just fake it or something? I know I flaked out of that game really hard. ANYWAYS, my stream of thoughts there is on hold until I figure that out. I dislike the even-night part of the claim since they are claiming something very powerful, but also something that has to wait to get results back and is not very responsible for producing results because of the modifier.

All that said, I don't know if I want to lynch them Today. I think they are scummy, but I'm ready to let night kills sort them out with any luck. >.>

Oh, shit, you're right. I guess it was fake?? Or, actually, maybe I was thinking of 169, which GM played in? Your fakeclaim comment makes a lot more sense now, though. THis is a stupid nitpick, but I would almost think the scum fakeclaim would be odd night gunsmith, to make sure they're likely to survive today? But then, more likely to die/for it to be weird they didn't die, too, and scum could have an even night role suggesting that even night is a good claim... I'm conflicted.

pedit: Oh. Alright.

[Cephrir]

Does anybody think Bob is town?

Lets all stop for a minute and consider his post where he asks MVP if their role has oddly specific things in it. Then lets lynch him since hes probably a mafia doctor.

It did immediately spring to mind that that was almost certainly the role he was referring to.

Incidentally, that interaction has always been, and continues to be, weird as hell.

[Cephrir]

I feel like everyone knows that SKs don't have guns, but eh, maybe.

[Cephrir]

This is the sound of me deciding whether to vote Bob or push a stronger suspect. I still think MVP is scum, but not lynching them today is a legitimate choice.

[Cephrir]

I still think MVP is scum

If I wave my hands a little bit and tell you that they are probably not the droids we're looking for, would you be willing to give them a pass for a little bit?

Yes, as long as you'll explain eventually.

[Cephrir]

I don't have a dubious role and I wouldn't ask that question if I were investigation-immune scum

jesus christ

scum often make up complicated details about their fakeclaims if you pressure them about it

that's why I asked it right after mvp posted

also, gunsmith has an extensive normal definition and mvp could've been unaware of that

So you'd have voted them if they said yes????????????????????????????????????????

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE:

[Cephrir]

[Cephrir]

Damn, that was a good opportunity for pumbaaface.jpg.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Bob

[Cephrir]

but the quality of people voting him, like MVP and Cephrir, who both are in my top 3 scumreads, makes it pretty obvious this wagon is bullshit.

Even though TSO is a leaning scumread of mine, I was starting to go crazy thinking that I was the only person who does wagon analysis on D1.

VOTE: Bicephalous Bob

Nothing about this post doesn't baffle me.

[Cephrir]

If a counterwagon emerged on the right player I might join it, but I'm not feeling particularly compelled to attempt to start one myself.

[Cephrir]

The reaction wasn't great IMO.

[Cephrir]

Feeling like MVP's claim is fake.

Yep/10

[Cephrir]

Ceph's lynch preferences: DJ>Bob>MVP>reinoe

[Cephrir]

Ceph's lynch preferences: DJ>Bob>MVP>reinoe

This specifically is why MVP and reinoe deserve death.

This specifically is a vague accusation you seem to want to keep making for no particular reason.

[Cephrir]

Can I get some votes on DJ?

You guys can't honestly think he's town.

Same thing with Toomai.

Titus impression time


No Mirhawk we are not undoing the wagon on scum for your vanities. You are asking permission to vote and that's a huge scum flag.

You are cycling through pretty much anyone but Reinoe.

Shiny object distration.

You've got my vote, Mir.

[Cephrir]

Heck, here it is!

VOTE: DJ

Might as well try it.

[Cephrir]

To clarify, I think you're scum. At least, you're the closest thing to a scumread I have this game, outside of MVP/reinoe.

To clarify, I don't know why you think that, and I don't think anyone else does either.

[Cephrir]

I think you've taken every possible easy option today, for one thing.

I've voted for my scumreads.

Suck it up.

[Cephrir]

but my other head thinks we should claim so w/e

town vig.

~

This game needs a vig and your realness will be evident in a hurry.

UNVOTE:

[Cephrir]

I don't like how DJ claimed at...L-5? With two other players also leading the race at L-5? I'm dubious.

Momentum.

Also, what scum claims vig, that's awful.

[Cephrir]

gm can we have a deadline extension since ki-gi should've been replaced by now

[Cephrir]

I suppose mafia vig is possible, but unlikely.

This would never pass any sort of review whatsoever

[Cephrir]

If we're choosing between Bob and Toomai, consider my vote functionally on Bob. I can't be arsed to check how many votes he has.

[Cephrir]

I've never seen a mafia vig outside of a smalltown setup where it was explicitly possible.

It's conceivable in a theme, but if anyone let that into a normal, I would bite their head off.

[Cephrir]

[L-2]

VOTE: bob

[Cephrir]

Well, in theory, some of that will sort itself out tonight. DJ will have to prove they're (vig/SK) tonight, and presumably do so by shooting reinoe (any other shot is just plain incorrect).

[Cephrir]

I don't think what that post is doing is actually the same thing as unflipped associatives.

[Cephrir]

I still don't agree with Toomai or Bob lynches, I still think we should lynch the shit out of {reinoe, Cephrir, MVP}. I think reinoe's attitude of "Yeah, I haven't done anything useful, but neither have other guys!" showcases his attitude towards being useful for d2 on - it won't happen. I think the amount of softdefending reinoe's received points to scum defending him.

You're starting to look like town TSO here, and your inability to explain why you're scumreading me is basically the only reservation I have about creeping in a townread direction here.

[Cephrir]

I don't understand why there is discussion about vigging someone who isn't reinoe.

[Cephrir]

I guess Toomai isn't the worst thing ever. It's true that he's not doing anything, I just like what he's posted enough to want to give him more time to do something. I won't be joining such a wagon barring deadline issues, but I'm not gonna yell about it, either.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Cephir

This is a wagon of win. Cephir's latest post says gee Toonami is a mislynch so it shouldn't happen but I will vote at deadline anyway. Total fenceshitty non accountability shit.

I don't think Toomai is a good lynch.

I will vote him at deadline because nolynches are antitown.

What's the problem here?

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Cephir

This is a wagon of win. Cephir's latest post says gee Toonami is a mislynch so it shouldn't happen but I will vote at deadline anyway. Total fenceshitty non accountability shit.

Then misvig him.

I will be FUCKED before you derail my wagon on fucking obvious scum Bob though.

Has your read on me suddenly changed or something?

[Cephrir]

Oh, wait, I can't read. Disregard, but I'm still a little confused why you'd encourage that.

[Cephrir]

Then super obv town BicephalousBob won't be lynched

I'm lazy, but is this new?

[Cephrir]

Nero agrees with you AP. I do not. This isn't scum Bob to me. See Newbie 1388. Nero's thinking it is too ancient. I am not. The wagon has issues. I am fine with lynching or vigging Mirhawk Cephir or Reinoe

A couple posts ago, Nero was scumreading me and you weren't.

[Cephrir]

"Can we get a DL extension!! Im getting deadline wagoned and I'd really rather shove a mislynch on one of the VIs some more!"

Yeah, this is pretty much exactly what I was seeing. The DL extension was obviously an attempt to worm out of the lynch, and I'd be more ok with that if he was being upfront about it but instead he's pretending to care that Ki-gi hasn't posted.

[Cephrir]

Yes. Then you posted that garbage about the Bob wagon.

After reviewing the past couple pages, I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Cephrir]

Yes. Then you posted that garbage about the Bob wagon.

After reviewing the past couple pages, I have no idea what you're talking about.

I will lynch Bob at deadline even though the wagon is terrible and you haven't pushed what you want.

What? Is this a joke I'm not getting? Why didn't you answer my question?

[Cephrir]

If you had claimed anything but vig, I would be voting you right now.

[Cephrir]

Massclaim has not been suggested.

DJ is massively scummy, but have claimed vig.

MVP has claimed even night gunsmith. They are probably scum.

That's about it.

[Cephrir]

Do you want to iso a townie to see what opinions you should hold, or scum so you can vote them?

[Cephrir]

fair enough, so heres an idea:

since we have a plausable vig i want everyone to name who they want shot and why 1 person only.

im going ot afk untill more ppl give imputs

btw i have intent to hammer

reinoe is antitown, and has about an average chance of being scum; as such he should die.

Summary

MirHaek vote parked on Toonami town
Cephir is spineless but for our slot
Reinoe is useless and counterwagoned by MirHawk and Cephir.

That is what is known and relevant.

This is a horrible summary, and the third statement isn't even true.

mvp is groupscum!

Yeah, probably, but so're you~

[Cephrir]

Hmph.

VOTE: reinoe?

[Cephrir]

That's definitely part of my thought process here.

There's also the part where reinoe is my best scumread that hasn't claimed gunsmith.

[Cephrir]

The kill, I can buy anyway. Only claimed PR that isn't {either lynchable or scum}.

The block, less so.

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE:

Want to look at this more closely when I'm not on a phone. This isn't scum theater and tso looks like shit this page

[Cephrir]

I have relentlessly pushed my agenda and people won't listen or are scum. I haven't liked one thing Cephrir has posted

One of these things is not like the other. One of these things just doesn't belong!

Hint: I have no idea why you think I'm scum.

[Cephrir]

The only defence he's offered to my accusation is "lol tso is bad". The only defence anyone else has offered is bullshit examples or noncommitment. Vote reinoe or explain why you're not doing it, and it better be damn good.

What do you mean "defense"? Are you referring to the Information Instead of Analysis that you offered way back when that relied on hyperbole and exaggeration?

I'm not going into a wall war with you when town enthusiasm was already on the brink.

But I realise that I'm not going to be able to air my views on reinoe until everyone's willing to listen, so I'm going to actually look at other people now.

And you never did this. Almost 800 posts later and you haven't done this. And yet when I point out that you haven't done this you say I'm "spamming the thread so that nobody can see your defense".

I'll admit Bob cheers me up and that's another reason to keep him but the quality of people voting him, like MVP and Cephrir, who both are in my top 3 scumreads, makes it pretty obvious this wagon is bullshit. Another reason could be the fact that Bob's explanation is legit.

MVP's jump was also atrocious.

Where's your Cephrir push?

Ceph's lynch preferences: DJ>Bob>MVP>reinoe

This specifically is why MVP and reinoe deserve death.

Why are you relying on your scumread's scumreads? Makes no fucking sense.

unvote
vote: dj

Hey look, now DJ is a scumread and Cephrir is not!

I still don't agree with Toomai or Bob lynches, I still think we should lynch the shit out of {reinoe, Cephrir, MVP}.

And now DJ is not a scumread but Cephrir is again!

But it doesn't really matter because TSO isn't pushing or pressuring his scumreads outside of myself.

So yeah, like, this is actually a pretty good post?

[Cephrir]

Aeronaut didn't replace out of all his games :/

[Cephrir]

TSO.

You have skipped over me asking you why I'm scum like FIVE TIMES.

And the idea of me being "antitown" is patently stupid.

Please stop flailing. It's not becoming.

[Cephrir]

Hint: Cephrir has not actually pushed either player.

Hint: Actually I did push MVP, harder than you have pushed me

[Cephrir]

Apart from MVP, who

I

the town ran up to claim, and Cephrir, who I call scum on a regular basis for no discernible reasons while ignoring his repeated requests for a solitary reason for this ...so

no, wrong as usual.

I am basically scumclaiming?

ftfy

[Cephrir]

TSO.

You have skipped over me asking you why I'm scum like FIVE TIMES.

Let's play "see how big a quoteblock I can make of this before you stop ignoring it".

[Cephrir]

izar might be scum....

No. I am pretty close to "I will never vote Izzy" territory.

I feel very strongly town about TWIE TSO and IZA
I feel strongly scum on MVP, AP, REN, MIRHAWK

Why?

[Cephrir]

Because he's not scum?

[Cephrir]

The biggest reservation I have about TSO is that throwing a bitchfit is basically the thing I was looking for, because it pretty much happened in FEA.

[Cephrir]

The biggest reservation I have about TSO is that throwing a bitchfit is basically the thing I was looking for, because it pretty much happened in FEA.

I think you're tunneling, but I don't think it's out of malice. Would he know what you're looking for? What reason would he have for "pulling out all the stops" at this juncture? I don't see him in danger of any lynch.

If I was tunneling, I'd actually be voting TSO.

He probably wouldn't, but I've alluded to it several times. However, if Cabd is correct about this being something that always happens, I'd be back to a scumread. I wouldn't classify what he's doing as "pulling out all the stops", but I do think he believed he was likely to be lynched when he selfvoted.

I should iso Toomai and make sure I still feel OK about him. It's entirely possible scum are getting past me entirely right now.

[Cephrir]

Because he's not scum?

care to explain why or how you have come to this?

Largely because throughout the entire game, I think his analysis has been really, really careful. He catches things I agree with but didn't notice, like, every single post he makes.

[Cephrir]

I definitely need to do some looking back. Everyone but TWIE/AP/Izzy is on the table for me today.

[Cephrir]

(Specifically, this is mostly a note to self, I want to re-examine Cabd, Mirhawk, Aegor and ika- I should have more of an opinion on them, ideally, than I have)

[Cephrir]

The biggest reservation I have about TSO is that throwing a bitchfit is basically the thing I was looking for, because it pretty much happened in FEA.

I think you're tunneling, but I don't think it's out of malice. Would he know what you're looking for? What reason would he have for "pulling out all the stops" at this juncture? I don't see him in danger of any lynch.

If I was tunneling, I'd actually be voting TSO.

He probably wouldn't, but I've alluded to it several times. However, if Cabd is correct about this being something that always happens, I'd be back to a scumread. I wouldn't classify what he's doing as "pulling out all the stops", but I do think he believed he was likely to be lynched when he selfvoted.

I should iso Toomai and make sure I still feel OK about him. It's entirely possible scum are getting past me entirely right now.

Sorry, I wasn't aware that tunneling required a vote here. On my site it's usually seen as using pretzel logic or WIFOM to continue suspecting a player.
I'm not sure that using typical behavior is very good at indicating anything.
Not pulling out all the stops? You're implying that he's acting out a mental breakdown...I'd say that's a pretty desperate move.
We'd have to disagree on him being lynched as a possibility. I think he self-voted for reactions, and I think he's frustrated that nobody is taking him seriously.

Not saying a vote is required, but to me tunneling is "focusing on a scumread to the exclusion of paying attention to the game". I don't think I'm doing that.

Oh, I'm sure the mental breakdown was legitimate, that just doesn't make it town. I've had legitimate breakdowns as scum before, though I tend to exaggerate them.

[Cephrir]

, pretty much how I feel about Reinoe, but I'm not ready to commit to a vote their yet. I really want to hit scum Today so I want a chance to revisit some people after I am done catching up.

I probably need to remember why I suspected reinoe yesterday, too.

[Cephrir]

BTW, leaning town on scrambles independent of Aeronaut.

[Cephrir]

Sure is a lot of "Ceph is scu and I won't tell you why" going around.

I guess it's contagious.

[Cephrir]

Sure is a lot of "Ceph is scu and I won't tell you why" going around.

I guess it's contagious.

nah i have legit reasons but i keep them safe with me

I don't know why this post has "nah" in it since you then proceeded to agree with me.

I have a feeling I'm not going to like you.

I tried to post the " :/ " to see if he would elaborate on what he thought that meant or speculate on something... But just saying that someone is too busy for 3 games but not too busy for 2 doesnt seem like a case.

It's not a case.

I don't even think the slot is scum.

[Cephrir]

I think this is better...

@MOD

V/LA UNTIL THE 4TH FOR THIS GAME ONLY.

@TSO

Spoiler:

fuck you. im doing this to avoid a flame war with you and your thin skin. getting into a heated argument in multiple games isn't going to do me any good

:/

[Cephrir]

ceph what possible reason does anyone have to townread you here????

???

I don't understand this question

What reason does anyone have to twonread anyone ever? Presumably some people are seeing the town motivation in my posts.

Looks like you have no reason. Color me surprised.

[Cephrir]

you're just really uninteresting and bland now and that's a really bad thing. have you taken any hard stances on anything yet?

I did yesterday.

Today I'm still working on.

I don't think you've ever played with me before, have you?

[Cephrir]

dpes cabd do stuff as scum?

I've seen both Cabd alignments.

I think he does slightly more when scum, but have never seen him be this useless (except kotor- where he replaced into an obvscum slot)

[Cephrir]

Then why bring it up?

I wasn't sure what it meant. I make useless posts sometimes.

However, it does mean something to me upon further thought, such that I wish I'd never mentioned it.

[Cephrir]

hey ceph

what do you think of reinoe saying he didn't want a wallwar, then saying he'd be cool with a flamewar, then making #1603

It looks a lot like something I would do as scum to get out of an argument I didn't think would end well for me. Hence the :/.

One of the two of you has got to be scum and I can't figure out which it is.

[Cephrir]

TSO.

You have skipped over me asking you why I'm scum like FIVE TIMES.

Let's play "see how big a quoteblock I can make of this before you stop ignoring it".

[Cephrir]

* I wish you hadn't mentioned it too.

EBWOP

pedit

worst EBWOP ever.

On the plus side, since I'm 99% sure we're on the same page, one of us will probably be alive still if/when it becomes relevant.

[Cephrir]

I would like to hear from them to know why they didn't feel like pressuring reinoe: AP, Aegor, Cabd and Cephrir

Well, because I had Bob as scummier than reinoe.

You can see a little before this I make a post along the lines of "I'm deciding whether to vote Bob or push a stronger suspect". At the time, said stronger suspects were MVP and DJ. Besides, L-3 was plenty of pressure on reinoe. Anyway, I then proceeded to jump on DJ, see them claim vig, and get back off again while trying to get them to shoot reinoe.

Given how shitty those reads now look, it's pretty plain why I'm trying to reevaluate today.

[Cephrir]

ika irritates me.

I knew that already, though.

[Cephrir]

You do.

Like, as a person.

I would prefer not playing with you.

[Cephrir]

Nope, not really!

(Hint: we've played on irc)

[Cephrir]

*pretends to understand a word that's been said on this page*

[Cephrir]

I think this whole conversation is really silly and I propose we simply stop having it.

[Cephrir]

{Toomai, MVP, reinoe}

I could wish these were less consensus, but I guess sometimes there's something to consensus.

[Cephrir]

Caution is not a scumtell.

[Cephrir]

hey ceph

what do you think of reinoe saying he didn't want a wallwar, then saying he'd be cool with a flamewar, then making #1603

Reviewing stuff I've missed this pops up. The only questions TSO asks Cephrir are at best buddying. Yet TSO has been calling Cephrir scum all the live long day. With something like 11 other players TSO could have directed this question to, why does he choose his scumread? I'd say TSO is almost buddying Ceph at this point, despite all those accusation that Ceph is supposed to be scum.

Nope. Not even remotely.

Besides, L-3 was plenty of pressure on reinoe.

Was it really though? We never did get a claim out of him as we did with MVP at L-1.

I claimed in my second post. You're an asshole.

BTW, I may be a cop and I may not be a cop. The important thing is that when scum read this post they're going to be paranoid and maybe have to shoot me tonight just to be safe. K TANX BYE!

I haven't claimed anything.

Amazing. So much WIFOM here. Is this a claim or not? Be clear now reinoe.

If I get run up to L-1 I'm going to say the same thing I said in that post. Hope that clarifies everything.

VOTE: reinoe

[Cephrir]

TSO.

You have skipped over me asking you why I'm scum like FIVE TIMES.

Let's play "see how big a quoteblock I can make of this before you stop ignoring it".

[Cephrir]

reinoe, I just voted you with extreme emphasis.

Why don't you care?

[Cephrir]

reinoe, I just voted you with extreme emphasis.

Why don't you care?

Because you've been scum reading me for a while. It would be strange to question someone for voting their scumread.

Same question: right back at ya.

There was a very clear and specific reason here. I'm surprised no one else has snap voted you for the same reason.

I don't care that you're voting me because you're scum.

[Cephrir]

reinoe, I just voted you with extreme emphasis.

Why don't you care?

Because you've been scum reading me for a while. It would be strange to question someone for voting their scumread.

Same question: right back at ya.

A bigger concern should be why isn't someone NOT voting their scumread. Why has TSO been calling you scum all the live-long day but won't vote you. He doesn't vote for me until a wagon develops. He votes himself before he votes for you. He even asks you questions like he trusts you. I'm surprised you do t have anything to say about any of that.

I have asked him why he is scumreading me somewhere on the order of 12-13 times.

[Cephrir]

(However, he can't be scum right now, because you are scum-- so it doesn't really matter)

[Cephrir]

(However, he can't be scum right now, because you are scum-- so it doesn't really matter)

1) these are some weak ass responses to my questions.

2) why are you ruling out multiball? Unless you know it's not...

Can we get some more votes on Cephrir. I think I caught something here.

1) calling things weak does not make it so.

2) because there was a vig and only one kill last night.

[Cephrir]

(However, he can't be scum right now, because you are scum-- so it doesn't really matter)

why can't they both be scum?

If this interaction has been a mutual bus, I will march over to the Scummies thread after the game and nominate them both for Don Corleone, and I will not feel even slightly bad about losing to it.

[Cephrir]

To be clear I don't think it's multiball, I'm just not ruling it out. A claimed vig could have been double killed. See NY 175.

Vig + multiball in 15 players = bad setup design

[Cephrir]

TSO.

You have skipped over me asking you why I'm scum like FIVE TIMES.

Let's play "see how big a quoteblock I can make of this before you stop ignoring it".

I am purposely not answering this because I am doing my best to get reinoe lynched.

That makes me angry, and I'm going to keep quoting it.

[Cephrir]

(and your recent vote doesn't really look like a bus so yeah)

I can't tell if this is sarcasm.

[Cephrir]

I'll just start counting, then.

That's incredibly lame.

[Cephrir]

The fact that reinoe hasn't been lynched for making post 1791 yet is baffling, and also makes him even more obviously scum than making it in the first place.

[Cephrir]

chepiher if reione flips town what do?

you know if he does im gunnning you next. and if doesnt im still going after you.

My concern levels are extremely low

[Cephrir]

Well if you wanna point me in the direction of a good vote, I'll listen.

More like damn it you got in the way of my self quote response to Reinoe.

But as far as people I want to lynch today Id say Mirhawk and maybe Ika?

Dunno if either of those would have enough support though.

Why not Cephrir.

Whomever said it was right: he was incredibly fence sitty day one. His reactions with TSO are beyond strange at this point.

My Native American name is Sits-On-Fence.

[Cephrir]

Would Reinoe/ika/ceph make sense as a team? Ika keeps making weird posts about ceph and voting other people. Reinoe is on his way out the door and keeps talking about Ceph like its hip.

The sneaky crane is probably not to be trusted.

I thought what we had was special :'(

[Cephrir]

Still expecting a scum flip.

[Cephrir]

reinoe is trying to make it look like he's shittily distancing from me by calling TSO and I scum then mostly attacking him.

His vote on me was due to realizing he was going down.

[Cephrir]

Reinoe was more useful then MVP, DJ, cephrir, TSO, and Toomai.

What made reinoe's selfvote any worse then TSO's?

Excuse you.

Well, this is irritating.

[Cephrir]

ok, now im convinced izar is scum

VOTE: izar

that post was full of nothing and uneeded i bet if i isoed i would find even more

There is a short list of things that are never happening; this is on it.

[Cephrir]

I don't think you're terribly far above me on that list Mr. Judgmental!

[Cephrir]

[Cephrir]

TSO.

You have skipped over me asking you why I'm scum like FIVE TIMES.

Let's play "see how big a quoteblock I can make of this before you stop ignoring it".

I am purposely not answering this because I am doing my best to get reinoe lynched.

That makes me angry, and I'm going to keep quoting it.

[Cephrir]

I have tried to explain it to myself and failed but I still think Cephrir is scum. I don't know why, I just do.

So you spent all day yesterday pretending to have reasons that were totally super seekrit... why, exactly?

[Cephrir]

I don't believe you. I think you thought you could make something up later. :/

[Cephrir]

My contribution to this game is rapidly becoming pathetic.

I have no idea what Cabd is talking about.

ika could be scum. The post above this reeks.

[Cephrir]

I'm allowed to say that I think you threatening to OMGUS anyone who votes you is scummy.

I'm not even remotely ready to vote yet.

[Cephrir]

Despite our mod's siggy saying effort isn't indicative of alignment, I have a hard time seeing scum go through the time of tracking the votes

FWIW, in my limited experience, this is just Toomai 101.

[Cephrir]

My contribution to this game is rapidly becoming pathetic.

I have no idea what Cabd is talking about.

ika could be scum. The post above this reeks.

My contribution to this game is rapidly becoming pathetic.

I have no idea what Cabd is talking about.

ika could be scum. The post above this reeks.

i feel a 1v1 coming up...

you guys keep saying "i can be scum" w/o a vote. so if you think i am scum you votepark your ass on me now or you can gindly QUIT FENCESITTING (or doublecating or whatever the fuck the term is)

I'm allowed to say that I think you threatening to OMGUS anyone who votes you is scummy.

I'm not even remotely ready to vote yet.

See, this is exactly why I'm scumreading you.

You call ika's post scummy.
ika tells you to put your vote where your mouth is.
Immediately, you back the fuck up.

Why not just do it?

A) No it's not why you're scumreading me, you have no reason, remember?
B) I'm not going to vote someone just because they tell me to. Just because someone might be scum doesn't mean "OMG you are 100% who I want to lynch today". I guess that's just crazy talk to you, captain tunnel.

[Cephrir]

I think it's time to start doing shit like I said I would yesterday.

Aegor: Opens on a silly note, which I would like in a void, but the conclusion of it feels a teensy bit manufactured to me (“aeronaut reacted to what I was doing, so he's town” is kind of simplistic; I'd rather have heard what about that reaction makes Aeronaut look town, which at the time I did not see, though in hindsight, I think I understand what might be town about it-- if Aegor is town, scum would know his “slips” were fake, so an attack looks kind of good, I guess. Not that I for sure agree with that assessment, but it's not illogical)

Trajectories make a lot of sense; he's been calling Toomai scum literally the whole game and is still doing it. This is hypocritical, but I'd have liked to see a bit more drive. However, I think that's still a bit closer to the town game I've seen from him than the SK game I've seen from him (my experience here is limited, obv).

Though he doesn't always lay out a map for exactly where he's shifting (reinoe scumread, for instance, sort of magics its way into existence in 1699).

Even though he hasn't done a ton, I came away with a light townread on Aegor that I didn't have before. For some reason, noticing that he doesn't have a hard and fast case against Toomai so much as a few issues here and there that keep popping up is appealing to me.

[Cephrir]

Aeronaut: like his tone in early posts.

I'm noticing that his play here is actually kind of like mine here, pushing/prodding people without hardcore pushing much of anything, and I am okay with that. On the other hand, he's fond of saying that he's watching players and then not really following through on it.

Stance re: early reinoe posts looks overly simplistic especially now that we have a flip from reinoe. Unrelatedly, it occurs to me that reinoe was almost certainly a scum designated mislynch, and I should pay more attention to how people pushed him; I was along for the ride there, sure, but earlier on especially he would have looked like prime mislynch fodder before I started actually thinking he was scum.

I've just noticed that 747 is inconsistent with regards to Ki-Gi (“why does anyone not think this is town? But I don't like the TSO wagon because Ki-Gi is on it.” WTF?)

I almost want to suspect the “TSO vs reinoe is TvT” opinion, especially if it turns out to be right. Is that weird? It just didn't look like that to me.

Came away townreading Aero less than I was when he was in the game, but I already know his replacement is going to be an improvement.

Scrambles: Early posts contain less thought processes than I recalled. 1558's concern with looking accurate, from a newbie, actually feels right to me.

1582 is one I want to remember if this slot ever flips scum.

Train of thought on MVP is a little bit fuzzy for me.

It's hard for me to know how many points to give things like scumreading AP (pretty ballsy for scum vs a town-AP, but I don't know exactly how clearly strong AP was at that point)

1718 is a weird post. 1723 loses me a little bit, which is something I actually like. If you're trying to explain your thought process, but it doesn't quite make sense to me, that means there's a little more to it still left in your head, and thus it's likely to be a real thought process.

And, not surprisingly, I like the way he came at ika (this is not actually related to my opinion of ika). What does he have to gain from drawing attention to himself as scum here, with hypothetical town ika? Yeah, nothing. The actual fight doesn't ring particularly town or not to me, but I like the fact that it happened. The fact this is a newbie is playing pretty hard into what I perceive as the likelihood of him doing this.

My eyes glaze over while reading your posts something, but that's alright I guess.

Conclusion: Eh, my opinion is about what it was before, tbh. Town lean, still.

[Cephrir]

Cabd, how much confidence do you have in your ability to read me?

[Cephrir]

Still to come: Cabd, Mirhawk, ika, Toomai.