NY 187: Pariah's Mafia [/FIN]

[dragonspawn]

Confirm

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: sword master

Anyone who is called master has to be evil

[dragonspawn]

Omgus

[dragonspawn]

So he omgus and you vote for me? And you guys don't offer any reasoning. Interesting. I'll have to make a note of that for later.

[dragonspawn]

Saying omgus is defensive?

[dragonspawn]

Making a note of what people do is defensive?

Garmr is probably town. If he was scum hr would probably be bussing his partners right now.

[dragonspawn]

Defensive is your reaction to multiple RVs votes on yourself

Btw how can you make me being defensive the justification for your vote if you vote for me before the post that is supposedly defensive?

[dragonspawn]

Anna isn't easy to read because she is still a newb. She could be scum but not willing to just assume so and I see no reason to rush anything.

[dragonspawn]

Rc doesn't share anything. I doubt he actually has anything.

[dragonspawn]

So bbt what is your grand argument for me being scum?

[dragonspawn]

Rc not sharing information is not alignment indicative. It's commonplace.

I'm still perplexed at how I am overreacting to anything by asking questions, making notes, and pointing out sword masters omgus vote and the odd choice of voting for me because I pointed it out.

Isn't the point of this game to get out of rvs, ask questions, make arguments and make notes of odd things? If making notes of odd behavior is defensiveness and scummy then isn't your making a note of my "strange" behavior scummy as well?

What exactly is the appropriate reaction to three random votes? One being an omgus, and two for no given reason whatsoever? Was I supposed to ignore it? Was I supposed to not note it? Was I not supposed to ask what is scummy about pointing out an omgus vote? Kind of important to get into the mind of people isn't it? Especially when there doesn't seem to be anything random about the supposedly random votes.

Am I not supposed to point out inconsistent reasoning? At what point do I get too defensive? And is defensiveness even really scummy?

Im not liking bella's hedging in that post. Trying to look like she agrees with the wagon without going for it all the way. Serious vote time:

VOTE: bella

I do have to say I do like the fact that my vote for sword got us out of the rvs though I never suspected it would.

[dragonspawn]

If dragon spawn flips scum this game it wouldn't surprise me if boon flips scum

I won't flip scum. But I haven't seen any reasoning for my old bud boon being scummy. Got a reason?

[dragonspawn]

Observation #1

A defensive over-reaction for an RVS vote:

So he omgus and you vote for me? And you guys don't offer any reasoning. Interesting. I'll have to make a note of that for later.

A defensive over-reaction for his earlier defensive over-reaction:

Rc not sharing information is not alignment indicative. It's commonplace.

I'm still perplexed at how I am overreacting to anything by asking questions, making notes, and pointing out sword masters omgus vote and the odd choice of voting for me because I pointed it out.

Isn't the point of this game to get out of rvs, ask questions, make arguments and make notes of odd things? If making notes of odd behavior is defensiveness and scummy then isn't your making a note of my "strange" behavior scummy as well?

What exactly is the appropriate reaction to three random votes? One being an omgus, and two for no given reason whatsoever? Was I supposed to ignore it? Was I supposed to not note it? Was I not supposed to ask what is scummy about pointing out an omgus vote? Kind of important to get into the mind of people isn't it? Especially when there doesn't seem to be anything random about the supposedly random votes.

Am I not supposed to point out inconsistent reasoning? At what point do I get too defensive? And is defensiveness even really scummy?

Im not liking bella's hedging in that post. Trying to look like she agrees with the wagon without going for it all the way. Serious vote time:

VOTE: bella

I do have to say I do like the fact that my vote for sword got us out of the rvs though I never suspected it would.

Analysis

In my eyes, dragonspawn should have just put his hands up straight away and admitted that post #39 was a defensive over-reaction. He has dug himself into a hole in his own wagon.

Conclusion

If dragonspawn is town: he has a misunderstanding of RVS.
If dragonspawn is scum: this is a case of 'LAMIST': he is presuming seriousness instead of thinking about tone / context of the post.

Why would I admit it was a defensive over reaction to revs when I disagree that it was revs? Both garmr and bbt voted in reaction to my pointing out that swords move was omgus. That's not random at all. In fact,

none

of the votes have been random. Not even the first vote which was omgus.

[dragonspawn]

Stupid autocorrect

[dragonspawn]

She did say that, though I don't really see a rhyme other than wagon and Dragon. And it's a pretty piss poor reason

[dragonspawn]

Considering there are a number of people who haven't given a reason whatsoever, it is a better reason than some.

[dragonspawn]

Why would I admit it was a defensive over reaction to revs when I disagree that it was revs? Both garmr and bbt voted in reaction to my pointing out that swords move was omgus. That's not random at all. In fact,

none

of the votes have been random. Not even the first vote which was omgus.

Ok, let's look back at your post:

So he omgus and you vote for me?

And you guys don't offer any reasoning

. Interesting. I'll have to make a note of that for later.

Did you honestly expect Garmr and BlueBloodedToffee to give deep meaningful reasons why they voted for you during RVS?
Did you honestly think that 'pointing out' that Sword Master's vote was 'OMGUS', was some deep meaningful scum-hunting analysis?

I am not convinced. You are reading things out of context.

Wagon on rhymes with dragonspawn

Wow

Where did I claim that pointing out omgus was some deep meaningful scum hunting analysis? I didn't take the omgus very seriously. In fact, pointing it out was me joking around with it. Sure it means the vote wasn't random but it wasn't until they reacted to that post that I saw anything interesting. Which is why I said I was noting it. Then came the "Holy heck you're so defensive!" Claims that still make no sense.

So I have to ask you this, why do you feel the need to construct straw men to attack? In fact, why are you attacking in the first place? Your pushing the wagon pretty hard for someone who isn't voting for it.

You're pushing my wagon at the same time as questioning those on the wagon not voting for any of us. Who exactly are you scum reading? Because right now it looks like you are trying to look like you are scum hunting without actually putting your money where your mouth isn

[dragonspawn]

But I am looking at the context that's my point. I joke around and they respond with serious votes. So I give them a serious response noting their behavior and I'm taking it too seriously? I understand the context fairly well.

There were two back to back serious responses to my jokingly pointing at omgus. And to this point there has been no real attempt to explain why they responded that way. And when I try to ask question and notice this, I'm told I'm being defensive. How was I supposed to respond? I asked that a while ago but no one has answered.

VOTE: keyser[\v]

I want to see a respond to who you think are scum whether you vote for them or not. If you haven't guessed I don't like my questions being dodged

[dragonspawn]

But I am looking at the context that's my point. I joke around and they respond with serious votes. So I give them a serious response noting their behavior and I'm taking it too seriously? I understand the context fairly well.

There were two back to back serious responses to my jokingly pointing at omgus. And to this point there has been no real attempt to explain why they responded that way. And when I try to ask question and notice this, I'm told I'm being defensive. How was I supposed to respond? I asked that a while ago but no one has answered.

VOTE: keyser[\v]

I want to see a respond to who you think are scum whether you vote for them or not. If you haven't guessed I don't like my questions being dodged

You know my initial vote was a rvs and your response to it was when it got serious. Judging by aeronauts replies I think his the same not sure.

There is nothing that seemed random about your vote. You reacted to something I said, that is by definition not random. And when I called you on it you claimed it wasn't serious but you'll stay with it anyway.

You can claim it was random all you want, but when you are voting in reaction to something I said, there is no reason i should presume that you are randomly voting. Nor is it at all unreasonable to provide a serious response to no random votes

Again, what was the proper reaction to non random votes?

And since it didn't take before VOTE: keyser

[dragonspawn]

Um Dragonspawn.

Swordmaster voted on you, and you called it OMGUS. So Garmr put a RVS vote on you and then you reacted to the vote.

Except there was absolutely nothing to Indicate that garmr or bbt were making random votes as they both immediately voted for me when I said omgus. Their votes looked like a serious reaction to me saying omgus so I provided a serious response.

And why wouldn't I provide a serious response to what appeared to be serious votes? Why wouldn't I make a note of it or be curious? I'd do the same if it was someone else they were reacting to.

[dragonspawn]

Vote : Keyser
[v Keyser [/v]

VOTE: keyser

So worked that time though I think its lost it's impact.

[dragonspawn]

Gonna give this a thorough read through soon.

If I didn't know you better I would think this comment is pretty scummy. Pushing a wagon without reading through.

But from my experience this is not unusual for you.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: bella

Thinking about it I like it better on Bella right now. Besides the main reason I wanted to Change to Keyser was to get him to actually take a stand and mKe some votes and reads. He is doing that now.

[dragonspawn]

Hey there, so in watching the dragon wagon show, I have a couple of thoughts. I like keysers and aeronauts analysis and questioning.

My opinion of dragons response is that it is not an OVER reaction, it is a dragon reaction. I have played with him before and it seems like a typical dragon response. I don't see it being alignment indicative. I think serious votes on the wagon are bad.

This whole post contradicts itself... you say you like the questioning from Key and I, but then below you say that any serious votes on that wagon are bad? Me and Key are serious votes on that wagon.

Gonna give this a thorough read through soon.

If I didn't know you better I would think this comment is pretty scummy. Pushing a wagon without reading through.

Why say it then?

Couple reasons. Mostly thinking out loud.

Btw key isn't voting me.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: bella

Thinking about it I like it better on Bella right now.

Do you see her post #107 as possible active lurking?
A kind of a narration of events but not pushing anyone/or committing to anything so as to not raise attention? Also laying the foundation to placing a vote on your wagon later?

Pretty much. I'm sure when she posts more ill get a better read. But it seems a good place to start.

[dragonspawn]

Wait, when did I sheep anyone to vote you Bella?

[dragonspawn]

Spreading awareness of a tell decreases it's value.

I'd rather keep this one for myself.

You would rather weasel out of explaining anything at all.

That is, inherrently, anti town at best.

VOTE: RC

Share what you have or don't bother posting it.

What the fuck did you just say to me you little shit?

I'll have you know I'm the top scumhunter in the entire MafiaScum and have over 300 confirmed scum lynches.

I'm extensively trained in VCA and have conducted numerous secret raids on the Werewolves.

You are nothing to me but another hated townie.

Right. Top scum hunter.

Keep telling yourself that.

[dragonspawn]

Spreading awareness of a tell decreases it's value.

I'd rather keep this one for myself.

You would rather weasel out of explaining anything at all.

That is, inherrently, anti town at best.

VOTE: RC

Share what you have or don't bother posting it.

What the fuck did you just say to me you little shit?

I'll have you know I'm the top scumhunter in the entire MafiaScum and have over 300 confirmed scum lynches.

I'm extensively trained in VCA and have conducted numerous secret raids on the Werewolves.

You are nothing to me but another

hated townie

.

I did something like this to crumb a hated role once are you crumbing one?

Why would you ask if someone is crumbing something?

[dragonspawn]

Hey boon you still alive buddy?

[dragonspawn]

Do you still stand by your first reason for voting dragonspawn? Or has his defensive-reactions added to your scum-read of him?

Both.

This kind of defensiveness is hard to read because it's at the very least anti-town.

Why is defensiveness anti-town?

This question is such a blatant misrep that I almost want to vote you. You chopped off the context, and even in that one sentence you quoted, there is the phrase "this kind" that you just threw out the window with your question. If you are asking why a kind of paranoid defensiveness that causes a player to misread posts and think they're more against him than they really are is anti-town...I think it's pretty obvious. It hurts the town when someone misinterprets what everyone else is saying and gets super defensive about it because it is a) deceptive b) illogical and c) often seen as scummy. In this case, I do see it as scummy, which means it's at least anti-town if he's actually town.

What the fuck did you just say to me you little shit?

I'll have you know I'm the top scumhunter in the entire MafiaScum and have over 300 confirmed scum lynches.

I'm extensively trained in VCA and have conducted numerous secret raids on the Werewolves.

You are nothing to me but another hated townie.

Right. Top scum hunter.

Keep telling yourself that.

Yet another misinterpretation of a post because he can't see past people being against him.

How is rc against me?

[dragonspawn]

How is rc against me?

Are you bleeping kidding me dragonspawn?

But more importantly, you should note that I didn't specifically say RC was against you.

Could have fooled me.

[dragonspawn]

Dare I ask who is in this hood? Since it's been outted.

No boon and I aren't best friends anymore. And garmr and I aren't masons anymore.

But boon is still awesome and I think I can read him much better now for the experience.

[dragonspawn]

Ill give you some reads I'm still formulating.

Town reads

Boon - cause he is still awesome. And it just feels like a town boon game so far.

Garmr - cause he has been pressuring me. I'd fully expect him to be bussing scum buddies if he was scum.

Bbt - a bit obnoxious at times but he has his own methods and he is playing similar to the last game when he was town.

Klingon - mostly because I'd be expecting her to be more involved if she was scum. That can change though.

Kitty has a slight town read for me because her posts have been geniune.

Scum leans -

Bella - for reasons previously articulated.

Prolapsed - he has been posting but not exactly providing with much substance. And his reasoning for getting on my wagon was poor.

Anna - slight scum read because she hasn't really done much other than vote for me because Dragon rhymes with wagon. I'd be expecting a bit more by now.

Everyone else is pretty null. I'd like to see more from sword master, kop (wouldn't it be ironic if he was a cop?) The cow and silver.

[dragonspawn]

That reads list is terrible, two of the town reads are really, really weak (kitty and kc). Dragon - what has bbt done that's alignment indicative? Thoughts on soze, myk and aero?

Myk, why duppin? I liked his posting si far.

Already said they are null so far.

As for bbt he is putting pressure on people and using that to formulate reads. Something I haven't seen from you, which is one of the reasons I'm voting for you.

[dragonspawn]

Because I was asked...

[dragonspawn]

Okay, just checking. There were no other motivations, then? Alright, thank you : )
Aeronaut has influence enough, then, over you?

If by influence you mean he can ask me a question and ill respond to him without being a dick then I guess so. I'm not really sure why it would be so surprising that ill answer questions. I'm answering yours aren't I?

[dragonspawn]

Okay, just checking. There were no other motivations, then? Alright, thank you : )
Aeronaut has influence enough, then, over you?

Aero

I know garmr isn't bussing his buddies because he has been voting and pushing me and I'm not one of his buddies. Obviously that's not going to convince anyone else. But we are talking about my reads not others.

[dragonspawn]

Last few scum games I've had with klingon she posts alot. The fact that she isn't indicates to me she is likely town.

[dragonspawn]

OK, that's one read and that is arguably an unreliable reason to read someone. You should focus on content, not how often they post.

When we are further along in the game I will.

I was asked for a reads lists at pretty much the beginning of day one, why on earth is anyone expecting a smoking gun case for anyone?

[dragonspawn]

Any case for scum!DS which requires him to be competent is one which is unlikely to sway me.

Still upset that I'm better than you at scum hunting? Mostly because I try...

[dragonspawn]

For Cereal

No! For

pony

!

[dragonspawn]

I'm thinking pb needs some more pressure.

VOTE: pb

We need to get him talking and interacting.

[dragonspawn]

Busy with RL at the moment. I'll do an reread the thread and do an analysis on something I find interesting when I get the chance. For now, I'd be open to people asking me questions on specific matters which do not involve rereading the entire thread: I should have time enough for at least that.

What do you think of the entire thread?:)

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: PB
Also iffy. He needs to get to l y n c h minus one.

Why?

Seriously if we are pressuring him to get activity why do we have to push him to L1 if he reacts before?

[dragonspawn]

Did we lynch him or not?

[dragonspawn]

I see no reason to presume a lynch occurred until the flip.

If so

VOTE: unvote

Just to be safe

[dragonspawn]

Yikes this town I dying fast...

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: bulbVOTE:

Barely in the game and votes for the largest wagon without any pretense of catching up. May not be a smoking gun but it doesn't look good imho

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: bulb

Hate posting from the phone.

[dragonspawn]

How does having a double voter mean it's a scum? Couldn't a townie have that pr too?

And how does that in any way implicate bbt? Just because he was pushing the wagon?

Seems to me that bulb would be more suspect since h specifically said he wanted to get the wagon to L1. I just don't know if the secret vote came before he joined us or not.

[dragonspawn]

Then if we are going to presume this is a scum pr then bulb is the best candidate because he voted with the intent to push him to L1

[dragonspawn]

Not a bad idea.

I votes for pb to put pressure. I did not like him just going full lurker and was hoping to get him to contribute so I could get a firm read one way or another.

[dragonspawn]

Klingons murder makes sense If bulb is scum. Her last post is literally her saying she suspects him and will keep and eye on him.

I'll have to ISO some of the others shortly.

[dragonspawn]

Anna night kill doesn't make sense from a scum point of view. More than likely a vig if anything. She didn't add much to the game. I could easily see a vigilante thinking she was scummy.

[dragonspawn]

Also is it possible we have a mass murderer? If we did and Anna investigated one of the other two it might explain something. But I'm not sure it does.

And are we sure we only have one scum group?

[dragonspawn]

I saw nothing obviously town about Anna. In fact if I hasn't previous experience with her I would have suspected her more.

[dragonspawn]

Anna was fairly obviously town; Kling was the vig shot if there is a vig.

Mykonian was 100% the scum kill. Could be multi-ball with scum also looking for other scum and killing Anna, that should be considered.

Also why would scum kill an obvious townie if they are looking for other scum?

[dragonspawn]

Were you scum reading klingon bbt?

[dragonspawn]

Seems obvious why to me. Why wouldn't he?

[dragonspawn]

@RC, why? Dragon seems to be obv!town today

That's basically a made up read. I can't fathom any town coming to that conclusion.

So you are going to claim everyone who disagrees with you is scum?

That seems scummy to me.

[dragonspawn]

Dragon is saying stupid stuff. If I voted on him, it was to pressure him. So stop throwing fake things and fucking fake accusations my way.

I am being framed. And being accused of nothing.

What was stupid about me saying you wanted to put him at L1 when we have a secret double vote somewhere?

[dragonspawn]

Dragon is saying stupid stuff. If I voted on him, it was to pressure him. So stop throwing fake things and fucking fake accusations my way.

I am being framed. And being accused of nothing.

Dragon is acting too pushy from his town self. He thinks I am a mislynch to push, which is not going to happen.

If I was scum I wouldn't think you were a mislynch. I would know it.

The fact that you aren't using the right language there is telling.

What I do know is you come in immediate wanting to push a wagon to L1 when there is a secret double vote on that wagon.

[dragonspawn]

Also, Bulba is clearly a scum led wagon, even if he's a member of the second scum team.

I'm assuming multiball at this point.

One what do you conclude that?

[dragonspawn]

Garmr, help us lynch DS. There's huge associative tells between the two, and a scum flip from one would basically entail an instalynch on the other.

And what is the associative tell between us? The fact that he was initially driving my wagon only to use it to scum hunt and now I'm townreading him for it because it was a bad ass gambit that I like?

[dragonspawn]

So he omgus and you vote for me? And you guys don't offer any reasoning. Interesting. I'll have to make a note of that for later.

Overly defensive early on.

Considering there are a number of people who haven't given a reason whatsoever, it is a better reason than some.

Defensive is your reaction to multiple RVs votes on yourself

Btw how can you make me being defensive the justification for your vote if you vote for me before the post that is supposedly defensive?

Contradictory.

Where did I claim that pointing out omgus was some deep meaningful scum hunting analysis? I didn't take the omgus very seriously. In fact, pointing it out was me joking around with it. Sure it means the vote wasn't random but it wasn't until they reacted to that post that I saw anything interesting. Which is why I said I was noting it. Then came the "Holy heck you're so defensive!" Claims that still make no sense.

So I have to ask you this, why do you feel the need to construct straw men to attack? In fact, why are you attacking in the first place? Your pushing the wagon pretty hard for someone who isn't voting for it.

You're pushing my wagon at the same time as questioning those on the wagon not voting for any of us. Who exactly are you scum reading? Because right now it looks like you are trying to look like you are scum hunting without actually putting your money where your mouth isn

Dragon, taking stuff and responding with a serious response is taking it seriously. I do not know why you want to keep denying that.

Here is a crazy idea. Why don't you explain why you wanted pb at L1 instead of just pressured until he responded instead of trying to resurrect a bad wagon?

[dragonspawn]

How does having a double voter mean it's a scum? Couldn't a townie have that pr too?

And how does that in any way implicate bbt? Just because he was pushing the wagon?

Seems to me that bulb would be more suspect since h specifically said he wanted to get the wagon to L1. I just don't know if the secret vote came before he joined us or not.

" secret vote"

Why are you putting secret vote in quotes?

[dragonspawn]

@RC, why? Dragon seems to be obv!town today

That's basically a made up read. I can't fathom any town coming to that conclusion.

So you are going to claim everyone who disagrees with you is scum?

That seems scummy to me.

I'd expect a more visceral reaction given your obvious distaste for me in NY185.

Plus, I gave Bella the opportunity to explain how your behaviour was obv-town. He has not responded.

Why would I provide a visceral reaction from your lack of scum hunting? Because of that game I learned that your playstyle isn't alignment indicative. Just because you are scummy and act like a jerk doesn't make you scum.

[dragonspawn]

How is that obvious? We have no clue who did it. You just seems particularly suspicious because you came in wanting to push him to L1.

Why shouldn't the odd comment that you want him pushed to L1 and a secret vote pushing us to lynch make you a suspect? Why shouldn't we be looking at you as a potential suspect?

[dragonspawn]

How is that obvious? We have no clue who did it. You just seems particularly suspicious because you came in wanting to push him to L1.

Why shouldn't the odd comment that you want him pushed to L1 and a secret vote pushing us to lynch make you a suspect? Why shouldn't we be looking at you as a potential suspect?

THERE WAS NO SECRET VOTE! I posted my intentions for it.

There clearly was a secret vote because on was lynched by a vote that no one knew about. Why are you saying otherwise?

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: bulbVOTE:

Barely in the game and votes for the largest wagon without any pretense of catching up. May not be a smoking gun but it doesn't look good imho

Yes, in light of the early hammer, Bulbazoor's two contributions are very scummy.

VOTE: keyserI am here.
Btw this is serious. Something seems off.

VOTE: PB
Also iffy. He needs to get to l y n c h minus one.

VOTE: Bulbazoor

" two contributions are fucking scummy" yeah right. All you want to do is frame me. But after last night, I townread you. IS IT MY FAULT IT WAS NIGHT AT THE TIME I REPLACED IN?

If you think he is town, why would he want to frame you?

Dragon is saying stupid stuff. If I voted on him, it was to pressure him. So stop throwing fake things and fucking fake accusations my way.

I am being framed. And being accused of nothing.

I am not a huge fan of this 'I am being framed' defense but oh well. You pushing PB to L-1 is the reason he is pushing on you.
I would not say it is nothing, but meh.

@RC, why? Dragon seems to be obv!town today

That's basically a made up read. I can't fathom any town coming to that conclusion.

So you are going to claim everyone who disagrees with you is scum?

That seems scummy to me.

I'd expect a more visceral reaction given your obvious distaste for me in NY185.

Plus, I gave Bella the opportunity to explain how your behaviour was obv-town. He has not responded.

Why would I provide a visceral reaction from your lack of scum hunting? Because of that game I learned that your playstyle isn't alignment indicative. Just because you are scummy and act like a jerk doesn't make you scum.

Wait, so you call RC out for being scummy, but you admit that him acting scummy does not mean he is scum.
So what do you actually believe? I do not really see the point in calling him out only to 'defend' him.
Please note I do understand what you are saying, but considering you know how he plays, what do you actually think about him?

Anyway Bulbazoor's reaction feels genuine to me. He seems to really be fighting the votes on him and seems very frustrated.
Not necessarily a town tell, but I actually like it. Most of what he says makes no sense to me (framed?),
but his reaction feels like an inexperienced (please correct me if this is not the case) town,
and if this is the case it also means it is a fairly easy train for scum to push.

Not feeling his train at all to be honest. I am interested in the people on it though.

UNVOTE: Bulbazoor

Mind explaining your unvote?

VOTE: Dragonspawn

I will put my vote here for now. I'd also like to ask you a question.
Do you believe any scum voted on you d1?

That's the problem with rc he plays a scummy game in my opinion. Even as a townie.

I pointed it out because I tend to think sharing our points and thoughts is important and I wanted to see his response.

[dragonspawn]

Btw was that last question for me or geyser?

[dragonspawn]

Bulb the fact that you won't tell us why you wanted him at L1 and keep denying there was a secret vote doesn't make me less inclined to suspect you

[dragonspawn]

People knew about my vote.

No one knew about the secret vote until the hammer which is why it was secret.

[dragonspawn]

Are you just not paying attention? Do you not see that vote between mine and Fa that says <vote> that no one knew about and no one knows who is from?

Who do you think cast that vote?

[dragonspawn]

So if you don't know would anyone but the person who cast it know who?

[dragonspawn]

I am leaning scum on aeronaut.

That seems like a random comment considering the conversation. Why?

@duppin I'm sure there was probably some scum on my wagon. It's one of the reasons I was pressuring pb. But I'm not sure who it ie at this point.

[dragonspawn]

@Boonskiies and BlueBloodedToffee - you have mentioned before that your town/scum reads of eachother are usually very accurate.

What are your current reads of eachother?



Boonskiies - I am admittedly alarmed by your low-activity this game.

Boon has not been active in any of the games I've seen him in. I don't think its alignment indicative.

Looks like bulb probably wasn't the double vote. It also seems unlikely that he took over the slot with a double vote in play from his predecessor. Even day one I didn't like his desire to push pb to L1 and he still hasn't addressed why he did so. In fact he is blatantly ignoring the question no matter how much he is questioned on it.

[dragonspawn]

Looking over myk's posts.

Seems like a very odd night kill unless scum read his vig comment to be vig crumb. Which would be dumb because I can't see why a vig would crumb at all. He was tunneling duppin and soze. Though I can't see much reasoning for them.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: bulb

Hate posting from the phone.

I hate naked votes

Wasnt naked. I posted the reason when originally tried to vote.

[dragonspawn]

Looking over myk's posts.

Seems like a very odd night kill unless scum read his vig comment to be vig crumb. Which would be dumb because I can't see why a vig would crumb at all. He was tunneling duppin and soze. Though I can't see much reasoning for them.

Do you find BlueBloodedToffee's choice to push/sheep mykonian's two scum-reasons at the start of D2 as scummy or innocent?

I didn't find them to be alignment indicative at all. I'm townreading bbt for the reasons I've previously mentioned. I think he has been putting in a genuine effort to get responses from people.

[dragonspawn]

Looking over myk's posts.

Seems like a very odd night kill unless scum read his vig comment to be vig crumb. Which would be dumb because I can't see why a vig would crumb at all. He was tunneling duppin and soze. Though I can't see much reasoning for them.

Do you find BlueBloodedToffee's choice to push/sheep mykonian's two scum-reasons at the start of D2 as scummy or innocent?

I greatly despise this dragon wagon

Care to elaborate?

[dragonspawn]

I'm still leaning town on bbt. I understand the argument on him. But over seen him act like that as town

I like the point on FA. Not sure if it's significant yet though.

[dragonspawn]

I have a possible theory to propose. What if the vote that is secret was some sort of invisible vote and the person who casts it on day one appeared as someone who was not voting? Seems more plausible than a doublevoter, but it is still possible that there was a doublevoter, but please consider this scenario. That means either Kop or Kitty Galore cast the vote according to my above theory.

So you are theorizing what others have already suggested?

[dragonspawn]

I'm a little drunk, hence why I replaced into a large normal when I like themes. Why should I ingore you when 834 suggests that's what you want? Only scum want to be ignored IMHDO.

Who was this directed at?

[dragonspawn]

It's still afternoon on a

work

day for me.
This is not alignment indicative for BBT, I've seen similar from him as both town and scum. The point on FA is good because even if multiball screws with "one extra kill" vs "two extra", SK is already expecting 2 and might be surprised by 3. In fact, I think that's good enough to vote for now. I can always read deeper after work.

VOTE: FA_Q2

So your calling faq sk yet there's other possibilities like him being faction scum or a vig.

Forgot to mention the possibility he even might of just guessed multiscum from the size of this game and the behavior of people day 1.

All reasons why I'm not immediately on the FA wagon.

[dragonspawn]

I beg to differ what has he done with PB and dragon?

How has he incriminated me?

[dragonspawn]

I don't see how him pushing a wagon on me with no argument so he can analyze the votes as incriminating

[dragonspawn]

Will be gone today.

@titus the pb wagon was mostly to put pressure on him and get him to respond. We simply didn't know there was a secret vote on him.

[dragonspawn]

Sighs I just figured something out which I wish I saw earlier and I don't know what to do with out outing his powerole. Dragonspawn is 100% confirmed scum. You can mislynch me I flip town but Dragonspawn has been copped.

So you are scum? Happened to have a spare few minutes and I jumped on.

Also its been fairly obvious that bbt was crumbing vig for a while. I'm just surprised he was outted at all.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: garmr

[dragonspawn]

If he had a guilty on me would he have voted for the vigilante?

[dragonspawn]

Garmr leaves us with scum.

[dragonspawn]

Sighs I just figured something out which I wish I saw earlier and I don't know what to do with out outing his powerole. Dragonspawn is 100% confirmed scum. You can mislynch me I flip town but Dragonspawn has been copped.

So you are scum? Happened to have a spare few minutes and I jumped on.

Also its been fairly obvious that bbt was crumbing vig for a while. I'm just surprised he was outted at all.

You believe Garmr is scummy for pushing BBT?

He's an anti-town vig at best. He shot N1, which is a really bad idea. I don't trust his judgment, or his patience to not shoot wildly. I am ok with the lynch proceeding.

Interesting. I do agree that a vigi can ruin town, but I see no reason to lynch a vigi claim d2. No matter what his role is, scum will have to deal with him during the night sooner or later anyway. Obviously we will have to reconsider this is he kills 3 townies in a row and is still alive but meh.

Anyway not sure what to make of the Garmr train.
As far as I can tell, the only reason people are voting on him is because he made BBT claim, correct?

VOTE: garmr

I assume this naked vote means you are seconding Dragon's reason for voting on him?

No. I think he is scummy for trying to mislynch me with a fake guilty claim. I just pointed out that his bbt push makes no sense if I've been copped.

[dragonspawn]

I have. You said I've been copped and found guilty. Which is impossible.

[dragonspawn]

Too many chefs. That is all.

Which means?

[dragonspawn]

The extra kill only intensifies this.

Almost forgot this. Only one extra kill huh, FA?

We're in multi-ball ladies and gentleman. FA was clearly expecting two kills; not three.

VOTE: FA

We have is 3 kills and that is a problem. We do not know if we are in a game with 3 scum factions and if we are then losing 3 townies is very bad.

I have never played a large normal that was not a multi-ball game. I expect that it is multi-ball. Do you honestly expect something different? Do you have any idea how slow the game would be with a single kill per night? Nice try but your logic falls very short. You are desperately trying to shake off the fact you have been caught red handed - key pegged you exactly:

Theory: BlueBloodedToffee knew he was caught, so basically gave up - "BBT gives 0 fucks about this game." (damage limitation).

Then someone in his scum day-chat tells him not to give up - to go back and cause as much confusion as possible, scum-reading half the players left alive, creating WIFOM, sheeping dead townies and voting different people.

This was bothering me so I double checked. You were in 180 which was not multi ball.

[dragonspawn]

Sighs I just figured something out which I wish I saw earlier and I don't know what to do with out outing his powerole. Dragonspawn is 100% confirmed scum. You can mislynch me I flip town but Dragonspawn has been copped.

Is this or is this not a guilty

you damn know what I'm saying your not incompetent

@ds I'm saying someone else copped yah and I found the guilty

You are trying to lynch me on a fake guilty claim you now say you think you saw.

[dragonspawn]

You guys were seriously going to lynch me over a fake second hand cop claim?

Yeah no way the scum aren't pushing me today.

[dragonspawn]

The only one I dont have questions about at this point is bbt because I think he is obvi town.

I was townreading garmr till he started his lynch dragon he has a guilty cop read on him. Which was conveniently when people were starting to look at him.

Bulbs vote looks purely like he is voting me to get back at me voting him from begging of the day.

Not sure what to think of your vote aero

Duppin makes me feel uneasy but every so often he does something to look town to me. I'm not sure I'm good at reading him yet.

And rc just seems like a vi to me. So maybe but I'm doubtful.

Probably

Daves vote looks opportunistic to me with little reason behind it.

Garmr dave and bulb has at least one scum

[dragonspawn]

Did you forget about fa dragon?

No. Why do you ask?

[dragonspawn]

We being my neighbours, of which Garmr is not one of them.

When we need to talk we usually use the scum QT, and when that's not available we skype.

By the way, we tried to kill DS and eh survived and BP = scum modifier so please clean that up ASAP.

You say stupid stuff like this and then you are shocked and upset when people point out that you are full of crap and a non entity in these games. Why? What is so difficult about just playing the game and not trolling?

[dragonspawn]

Have we resolved the fact that FAQR tried to tell us he'd never played in a non-multiball game even though that's just completely false

No. Waiting for his response.

[dragonspawn]

Is it anti-town to ask how many neighbourhoods we have, and how many are actually in them?

Does being in a neighbourhood have any indication of alignment?


IMO, Kop should be replaced.

No. and no

[dragonspawn]

I dont see why garmr should be an obitown read to anyone.

Duppin that doesn't make sense to me. What are you trying to ask and to whom?

[dragonspawn]

I think about shazam every second of every day

We're in love

In love? Interesting.

[dragonspawn]

Slight town read. But mostly because he isn't pinging me very much.

[dragonspawn]

How many kills per night in 180?

It varied we has a mass murderer in the game.

[dragonspawn]

How many kills per night in 180?

Btw shouldn't you know that? You were the back up mod

[dragonspawn]

Have we resolved the fact that FAQR tried to tell us he'd never played in a non-multiball game even though that's just completely false

No. Waiting for his response.

Was 180 the game where town self imploded with the false cop claim that worked directly against their win con?

If so - then I possibly did say something false. I have no idea what the setup in that game was - after I was eliminated early in a colossal town fuck up I stopped watching it. I would prefer that game never have happened at all.

If that is enough to lynch me then fuck it - it is painfully obvious that bbt is reaching with the asinine claim that was a scum when what I stated makes perfect sense. If that is what town uses as a case then we have a snowballs chance in hell of taking this game anyway.

Yeah that's the game. I'm still not feeling that inclined to lynch FA. He still feels townie to me.

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: TheDominator37

Alright, I'm not putting up with you anymore.

Pure policy lynch but it's got to happen.

What policy?

I second this

[dragonspawn]

Yeah, you're right. I'm not going to stand for Kop's goddamn lurking, I mean look at it he only has 42 goddamn posts.

VOTE: Pisskop

Foregoing to lynch the mod?

[dragonspawn]

Would anyone mind telling me why the Dragonspawn train died?

This is not me asking you to change your vote back on him, but most people just changed their vote from him without giving an explanation.

Not entirely sure what to make of the Kop train. Sounds more like a policy lynch (who will most likely get replaced soon anyway).
I don't really see what info we would gain by lynching him.
I'd actually rather see the vigi deal with him. (obviously not the case if he gets replaced)

The fact that it's always been a Bad wagon isn't enough? Doesn't help that there was a fake cop claim Implied to push my wagon either

[dragonspawn]

Would anyone mind telling me why the Dragonspawn train died?

This is not me asking you to change your vote back on him, but most people just changed their vote from him without giving an explanation.

Not entirely sure what to make of the Kop train. Sounds more like a policy lynch (who will most likely get replaced soon anyway).
I don't really see what info we would gain by lynching him.
I'd actually rather see the vigi deal with him. (obviously not the case if he gets replaced)

Btw other than pushing me, which you really haven't put much effort into, what exactly have you been doing this game?

[dragonspawn]

The reason Garmr seems town to me is that the whole "RC was telling me to fake cop" thing, while misguided, also seems pretty genuine to me. Like I don't see a scenario where scum says it like that.

Really because I see that as a really scummy move. I didn't scum read him until that point.

It looks to me like he wanted to use the 'dragon was copped guilty by someone else' as a ploy to push a mislynch with the force of a cop claim and then be able to squirm out of it the next day if dragon flipped town.

Right now I am willing to go with bulb, garmr or bbt. All three are scummy IMHO.

so you think dragon is actually town can you tell me why

Could you tell me why I am?

And why you need to fake a guilty on me if its so obvious?

[dragonspawn]

I don't understand this garmr is town because he was willing to take a nk by fake claiming cop.

He didn't fake claim cop. In fact he made in repeatedly clear he wasn't claiming for himself but for someone else (rc). How is he risking a nk for a cop if he is specifically saying it's not his claim. The whole he is town because of that argument makes as much sense as a screen door on a submarine

So really what's the town motivation for lying about someone else being a cop and claiming a townie was found guilty?

[dragonspawn]

What else is intreasting is That he thought kling was townie as hell yet didn't question blue over the kill even through he was so adament on the night kill

There's too many pronouns for me to understand thistledown. Can you rephrase this and give post references?

dragon was pushing that Anna would of been the big kill but when blue said she wasn't dragon didn't even question it

Why would I question it? He claimed vig. It was obvious to me he was telling the truth. He said he killed kling and gave a reason. What more do I need to know on the subject?

[dragonspawn]

Titus voted me I'm now confirmed town

Because clearly that's alignment indicative.

[dragonspawn]

lalala

VOTE: dragonspawn

Another vote for no reason.

[dragonspawn]

In what way are you invisible?

[dragonspawn]

You didn't read my posts before responding to my vote.

I did read them which is precisely why I said you have nothing. Because you have nothing.

I have yet to see someone place a vote on me this game for a reason that had any substance to it.

[dragonspawn]

You didn't read my posts before responding to my vote.

I did read them which is precisely why I said you have nothing. Because you have nothing.

I have yet to see someone place a vote on me this game for a reason that had any substance to it.

There have been a lot of votes that have had substance.

Sure. That's why you felt the need to fake a cop guilty on me.

[dragonspawn]

You didn't read my posts before responding to my vote.

I did read them which is precisely why I said you have nothing. Because you have nothing.

I have yet to see someone place a vote on me this game for a reason that had any substance to it.

Posts like this are a pretty good indicator.

That you have jack? Yeah. I agree.

If you had something you would provide it

[dragonspawn]

Blue can you shoot dragonspawn tonight please.

You could just nk me yourself.

[dragonspawn]

You didn't read my posts before responding to my vote.

I did read them which is precisely why I said you have nothing. Because you have nothing.

I have yet to see someone place a vote on me this game for a reason that had any substance to it.

Posts like this are a pretty good indicator.

That you have jack? Yeah. I agree.

If you had something you would provide it

Yeeeeeeeeeah, you definitely have never played with me before.

Doesn't matter how many times I have played with you. If you had something you'd say so.

[dragonspawn]

Blue can you shoot dragonspawn tonight please.

You could just nk me yourself.

I would if I could mate< I would if i could.

So you don't have the ability to nk but if you did you'd kill a townie you couldn't mislynch by lying?

Where is the town motivation there?

[dragonspawn]

garmr - (4) Dragonspawn, Boonskiies, davesaz, Titus

VOTE: garmr

VOTE: garmr

Hate to broadcast it again, but:

In post 468, pisskop wrote:
Annadog40, [Town] Gunsmith, has died Night 1.
Mykonian, [Town] Citizen, has died Night 1.
Klingoncelt, [Town] Citizen, has died Night 1.

One of these kills makes Garmr town

.

Is this the scum counter-wagon or am I on the wrong wagon?
Do Dragonspawn, Boonskiies, davesaz, Titus, FA_Q2, TheDominator37 scum-read both Garmr and Aeronaut?

Yes. But you need a little more than blanket assertions for it to mean anything. How do any of those kills prove he I innocent? We know he isn't the vig. And he denies having nk anyway.

[dragonspawn]

Why are we scumreading Garmr again?

Because he tried to fake a guilty on me and was caught

[dragonspawn]

Why are we scumreading Garmr again?

I still think Titus is town but she can be honorary scum

Why? Because she voted for you?

[dragonspawn]

Blue can you shoot dragonspawn tonight please.

You could just nk me yourself.

I would if I could mate< I would if i could.

So you don't have the ability to nk but if you did you'd kill a townie you couldn't mislynch by lying?

Where is the town motivation there?

2 things
1 you're not town
2 I made a mistake with a post and your trying to push it as me lying where it obvious where i made a mistake

1) no I'm not
2) you didn't make a mistake. you flat out lied. A mistake is unintentional.

[dragonspawn]

garmr - (4) Dragonspawn, Boonskiies, davesaz, Titus

VOTE: garmr

VOTE: garmr

Hate to broadcast it again, but:

In post 468, pisskop wrote:
Annadog40, [Town] Gunsmith, has died Night 1.
Mykonian, [Town] Citizen, has died Night 1.
Klingoncelt, [Town] Citizen, has died Night 1.

One of these kills makes Garmr town

.

Is this the scum counter-wagon or am I on the wrong wagon?
Do Dragonspawn, Boonskiies, davesaz, Titus, FA_Q2, TheDominator37 scum-read both Garmr and Aeronaut?

Also blue if I get lynched today shoot D's for me once D's is dead the rest of the scum will fall

More scummy behavior trying to control the vig. Let him shoot who he thinks is scum.

[dragonspawn]

Rc is pretty much the towniest player here

You cannot be serious with this.

[dragonspawn]

Btw I'm having mixed feelings about kitty g at the moment. When she participates I like what she has to say.

But my experience with her was similar to this. She said good things while here and lurked like crazy. And she was totally scum.

If garmr and his mates manage to mislynch me, just keep an eye there.

[dragonspawn]

Blue can you shoot dragonspawn tonight please.

You could just nk me yourself.

I would if I could mate< I would if i could.

So you don't have the ability to nk but if you did you'd kill a townie you couldn't mislynch by lying?

Where is the town motivation there?

2 things
1 you're not town
2 I made a mistake with a post and your trying to push it as me lying where it obvious where i made a mistake

1) no I'm not
2) you didn't make a mistake. you flat out lied. A mistake is unintentional.

My mistake was thinking rc was cop are you how old are you rc

Old enough two write complete sentences and form competent arguments without lying.

[dragonspawn]

But D's you just lied there you have no competent arguments

Maybe lying to lynch a townie isn't scummy to you but I think it's a fairly good argument.

[dragonspawn]

But D's you just lied there you have no competent arguments

Maybe lying to lynch a townie isn't scummy to you but I think it's a fairly good argument.

So you didn't say I was copped and found guilty.

[dragonspawn]

Bbt should you really be announcing your planned kills to the scum?

Keyser I agree with you that bulbs voting all over the place is problematic. With all that's happened today I think he is likely town

[dragonspawn]

Bulb is there anyone in particular you are town reading?

[dragonspawn]

Votecount 2.14

---

davesaz

- (6) Keysor Söze, garmr, BlueBloodedToffee, Aeronaut

, ,

duppin, Shazam

garmr

- (6) Dragonspawn, Boonskiies, davesaz, Titus, FA_Q2, TheDominator37

Dragonspawn

- (1) Ankamius

FA_Q2

- (2) Radiant Cowbells, Bulbazoor

Titus

- (1) Kitty Galore

Not Voting:

Kop

Is this another hidden vote?

If it is shouldn't we be more hesitant about lynching Dave?

[dragonspawn]

Bbt why did the secret vote change your kill?

[dragonspawn]

Why are you getting on the Dave wagon?

Welcome btw

[dragonspawn]

Btw if we have a secret vote on Dave that would make him L1.

So another vote could hammer. So be careful

[dragonspawn]

Let's be a little more explicit for Firebringer's benefit. The D1 lynch occurred at L-1 because there is a hidden vote in play. We don't know if it is a double voter, a silent voter, or what. In that light, any L-2 is a L-1.

BTW, I'm certain the Bella/Dom/Firebringer slot is town. Just so you know, observing my posts can show you, all you need to know is, the wagon on me is on town. I would be more circumspect if the count were lower, but it is a virtual L-1 in my eyes.

@MOD, V/LA until Sunday late afternoon.

Going camping and no internet on the mountain.

Forefinger didn't replace Dom he replaced kop

[dragonspawn]

Firebringer stupid autocorrect

[dragonspawn]

We have two days before the deadline. That is time for a new wagon but quite frankly I haven't liked any of the wagons today aside from garmr. Not really town reading Dave but I'm not exactly seeing his posts scream scum either.

[dragonspawn]

PEPs already preping for my town flip

Are you saying you're preparing for it or others are? And if the latter, who?

[dragonspawn]

PEPs already preping for my town flip

Are you saying you're preparing for it or others are? And if the latter, who?

Your mum

Has nothing to do with you clarifying your statement

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: Davesaz

The amount of scum I'm seeing on the Garmr wagon strongly suggests that it's counterwagon, Daves, is scum.

I'm happy voting this.

How I garmr the counter wagon when his started first?

What's the vote count anyway? Did bulb already hammer? Is secret vote in play?

[dragonspawn]

So what are the odds that Dave is scum with the secret vote?

[dragonspawn]

Rc did something useful.

We got lucky with Dave. But I tend to agree garmr is my likely scum unless he is on another scum team. Which considering the flip I tho k we have a vig and a SK.

[dragonspawn]

Rc did something useful.
We got lucky with Dave.
But I tend to agree garmr is my likely scum unless he is on another scum team.
Which considering the flip I tho k we have a vig and a SK.

Can you please add notes to each sentence explaining each one.

Rc did something useful by protecting someone. I highly doubt he was the target. He was bodying guarding someone. Hence something useful.

We got lucky with Dave because there was little truly pointing to him being scummy.

I think it's unlikely we were pushing two scum yesterday unless it is multi ball. I don't think that's likely after the two flips. 1) no indication that Dave was on scum team a or b or red lr blue. Just mafia. Unless we have werewolves in the facility there is no indication of a second team. So its more likely we have a vig and SK floating around rather than a second team. 2) the single kill Last night reinforces that to me.

So I don't think garmr is scum though he may be a SK.

[dragonspawn]

Rc did something useful.

We got lucky with Dave. But I tend to agree garmr is my likely scum unless he is on another scum team. Which considering the flip I tho k we have a vig and a SK.

You have no right to say this. If you are by some miracle town you have one of the most poor performances in this game so far.


Facts

1.faq2 didn't die last night rc didn't block that becuase rc wanted faq2 dead. Faq2 is either bullet proof or Blue was roleblocked.

2.Rc was weak body guard meaning rc can only block 1 kill meaning one kill or both must of been directed at rc.

Blue said he didn't take a shot.

You are assuming more than one shot took place or could have taken place.

[dragonspawn]

Take garmr out of the scum list.

Garmr, I think Dragonspawn is not likely pushing a coordinated push with Daveaz. Dragonspawn could be opposition scum but he's not likely same scum as Dave. First, Dragonspawn should know by now that coordinated lynches by the scumteam are stupid. I wouldn't expect such a move from him. Second, while they are both pushing the same line of reasoning, the spacing is too far apart and the language isn't close enough. Third, I'd expect Dragonspawn to build up Dave with complements. Rather, I think Dragon was opportunistically hopping on Daveaz's idea.

VOTE: Dragonspawn

What idea of Dave's was I hoping on?

[dragonspawn]

Bulb why fa?

[dragonspawn]

Btw when are out guys going to start scum hunting instead of once again trying to lynch a townie for Piss poor reasoning?

VOTE: anna[\v]

[dragonspawn]

VOTE: anna

[dragonspawn]

I predicted that vote was coming before I looked at this page
VOTE: dragonspawn

I'm not actually caught up or anything but I found scum and people seem to concur with this

Another omgus with me. Course I'm sure you guys will someone convince yourselves that someone voting me for voting them somehow makes me a scum, again.

You would think by day three of you guys trying to mislynch me you could come up with an argument though.

[dragonspawn]

Also this may be me bragging I find it hilarious scum think I will be a easy lynch and try to go against me only to get themselves lynched. Blue and Aero have experience with this and now dave does to .

I find it hilarious that you almost getting yourself mislynched by stupidly faking a guilty and find the need to brag about it.

Meanwhile we are on day three of you guys trying to mislynch me because I responded seriously to your serious votes during rvs and scum still can't seal the deal. Yet I don't see a need to brag about that. It's amusing.

[dragonspawn]

Yes I think he is town now. Didn't you read that?

[dragonspawn]

Also this may be me bragging I find it hilarious scum think I will be a easy lynch and try to go against me only to get themselves lynched. Blue and Aero have experience with this and now dave does to .

I find it hilarious that you almost getting yourself mislynched by stupidly faking a guilty and find the need to brag about it.

Meanwhile we are on day three of you guys trying to mislynch me because I responded seriously to your serious votes during rvs and scum still can't seal the deal. Yet I don't see a need to brag about that. It's amusing.

I find it hilarious that you are acting big while you are incompetent as a scum member and town. Incompetent as scum because your going to get lynched. Incompetent as a town because your reads have been bloody awful so till this point. Then you still have the nerve to trash talk rc.

Actually I'm not acting big at all. That was my point.

And yes I have no problem pointing out that rc is a crappy player who does almost nothing to add to the game.

When you succeed at mislynching me, Look closer at Anna, kitty, duppin, ank and I'll throw in Titus for good measure.

[dragonspawn]

I'm a citizen. Nothing special.

If I was scum I would have killed some of the more obvious prs.

[dragonspawn]

Haven't seen a reason from Anna other than the fact that I votes for her shortly before she jumped on.

[dragonspawn]

I'm a citizen. Nothing special.

If I was scum I would have killed some of the more obvious prs.

Second sentence makes me more wary of this lynch. Don't we think that scum DID try to kill one of the more obvious prs? If so, why would said scum then say "if I were scum I'd do [exactly what he actually did]". Seems too honest for scum. Thoughts?

It could be a attempt to spread wifom. Seriously the good riddance to rc post is pretty much gloating.

If I was scum why would I be happy rc was dead? He creates chaos in town. That's exactly what I would want. And he doesn't add anything. Him being gone means two things

1) he did something useful by protecting someone cause scum wouldn't target him.
2) we have much less background noise to distract is from scum hunting.

[dragonspawn]

I'm a citizen. Nothing special.

If I was scum I would have killed some of the more obvious prs.

Second sentence makes me more wary of this lynch. Don't we think that scum DID try to kill one of the more obvious prs? If so, why would said scum then say "if I were scum I'd do [exactly what he actually did]". Seems too honest for scum. Thoughts?

It could be a attempt to spread wifom. Seriously the good riddance to rc post is pretty much gloating.

If I was scum why would I be happy rc was dead? He creates chaos in town. That's exactly what I would want. And he doesn't add anything. Him being gone means two things

1) he did something useful by protecting someone cause scum wouldn't target him.
2) we have much less background noise to distract is from scum hunting.

The way RC role works we know for sure 100% that one of the shots was aimed at rc himself as weak body guard can only tank one shot. So only one death means there was two shots on rc or rc got shot while tanking a shot for another person the optimal use of a weak body guard.

One death could mean many more things.

It could mean only one shot was taken last night for whatever reason.

It could mean two shots were taken but one fired at a bullet proof.

It could mean one was healed by a doc, stopped by a jail keep, about a million other things.

Why should we accept that rc was the target for one and that's why we have one kill?

[dragonspawn]

Of course I suggest the town looks into you after my mislynch so therefore I must be scum.

This is seriously getting ridiculous.

[dragonspawn]

Of course I suggest the town looks into you after my mislynch so therefore I must be scum.

This is seriously getting ridiculous.

You said to look into FIVE PEOPLE. At that point, you have no basis for saying Kitty's scumread on you is biased by that. If that was how it worked, everyone would just say "look into [insert large number of people in the game] after I'm dead" and then come back with "OH I CAN'T BELIEVE SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE VOTING ME, I BET I KNOW WHY THOUGH." To sum up, I don't find it ridiculous at all that Kitty finds you scummy.

Then you aren't paying attention. How many times are you going to let the scum try to mislynch me before you wise up or just take me out? Seriously if I'm so scummy lynch me instead of dragging this freaking mislynch day after day.

[dragonspawn]

Does it bother any of you that if I'm scum there hasn't been a single counter wagon today?

[dragonspawn]

Been asking that three days bbt.

[dragonspawn]

Since when is bulb my buddy?

[dragonspawn]

Sighs if we don't lynch ds then that means scum killed off all the smart town :/

So do you say that because you dont consider yourself smart or because you aren't town?

[dragonspawn]

Also to those saying there is no case on ds learn to bloody read the game there has been 2 FUCKING DAYS WORTH OF CASES

to those saying how hard it was to get yesterday but how easy it is today. Multiple scum teams are a high probability his own scum team probally thought us town were SMART enough to lynch him today.

gahh this roster is killing me.

Of there are two days worth of cases it shouldn't be so difficult to provide one should it?

[dragonspawn]

Quick summary of all the cases brought so far.

Day 1

Spoiler:

-Dragonspawns defensiveness to people voting him in rvs.

-Dragonspawn acting stupid to try and get people to brush off the fact he was defensive.

-How easy a prolapsed counter wagon was built up yet DS was just as scummy if not more.

-now we have a dave flip we can see how defensive dave was of dragonspawn.

Got a few minutes before my next meeting, so I have an opportunity to write down some thoughts. I don't have a big enough window to do an in-depth reread, so need to shoot from the hip here.

Keyser is giving me uncomfortable feelings of matching the "scum leading town" or "too town to be scum" tell. Things turn out bad when I miss these signs. I'd rather put a weak scum read here and have it improve over time than dismiss him and have it bite me later.

Hard to tell if Shazam beetlejuiced or if this is merely the time he's online. Must wait to see if a pattern of posting times develops. That's a really weak tell though so I'm leaving him null for now.

I agree that Dragonspawn's reaction seemed more defensive than it should be. But I do that as town myself at times, so I can't really scum read him for it. OTOH I haven't really seen anything that screams town either. I won't go into details on what the deciding factor might be, as it's not a good idea when scumhunting to coach possible scum on how they'd get me to town read them.

BBT still gets a weak town read. Pushing wagons for dubious reasons is ok early in D1. Kinda like the submarine tactic of firing a torpedo to see what direction your contacts move.

Garmr bugs me but I'm not sure exactly why. It's pure gut, and I don't mind admitting it.

Pedit: @dragon The weak read on BBT would be limited time only. The torpedo trick only works once, then he gets to do actual scumhunting.

Here is dave trying to justify dragonspawns response.

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain
Giving in to pressure seems rather scummy.

Here is dave jumping onto the counter wagon of ds.

-His reasoning for being on pb was pathetic.

I'm thinking pb needs some more pressure.

VOTE: pb

We need to get him talking and interacting.

DAY 2

Spoiler:

How does having a double voter mean it's a scum? Couldn't a townie have that pr too?

And how does that in any way implicate bbt? Just because he was pushing the wagon?

Seems to me that bulb would be more suspect since h specifically said he wanted to get the wagon to L1. I just don't know if the secret vote came before he joined us or not.

Look at this comment and how similar this is to daves.

Let's look at this:

Could be some ones a double voter

Dragon no point unvoting. It changes nothing.

You should rejoin wagon to make sure wagon is maintained in the case of Mod error.

@BlueBloodedToffee, you either knew about the scum PR which enabled the early hammer, or scum are setting you up for the miss-lynch. Your incessant push for Prolapsed Brain to be put near L-1 needs to be flagged.

This did catch my eye though. Why do you presume it is a scum PR? Couldn't it be a town double voter? One of the vote counts did have a <vote> inserted in the middle of the list.

These couple of posts tell a little story to me.

Anna night kill doesn't make sense from a scum point of view. More than likely a vig if anything. She didn't add much to the game. I could easily see a vigilante thinking she was scummy.

I saw nothing obviously town about Anna. In fact if I hasn't previous experience with her I would have suspected her more.

Anna was fairly obviously town; Kling was the vig shot if there is a vig.

Mykonian was 100% the scum kill. Could be multi-ball with scum also looking for other scum and killing Anna, that should be considered.

Also why would scum kill an obvious townie if they are looking for other scum?

These couple of post make me feel like dragonspawns team killed anna the way he behaves around the anna night kill is weird and not the type of interaction I would think of town. I don't think a townie would dwell on the one kill out of three so much.

The reason Garmr seems town to me is that the whole "RC was telling me to fake cop" thing, while misguided, also seems pretty genuine to me. Like I don't see a scenario where scum says it like that.

Really because I see that as a really scummy move. I didn't scum read him until that point.

It looks to me like he wanted to use the 'dragon was copped guilty by someone else' as a ploy to push a mislynch with the force of a cop claim and then be able to squirm out of it the next day if dragon flipped town.

Right now I am willing to go with bulb, garmr or bbt. All three are scummy IMHO.

so you think dragon is actually town can you tell me why

Could you tell me why I am?

And why you need to fake a guilty on me if its so obvious?

Has dave as a scum read yet when It become more and more obvious that I'm town that made a msitake pushes me as scum usning Similar logic as dave.

The reason Garmr seems town to me is that the whole "RC was telling me to fake cop" thing, while misguided, also seems pretty genuine to me. Like I don't see a scenario where scum says it like that.

Really because I see that as a really scummy move. I didn't scum read him until that point.

It looks to me like he wanted to use the 'dragon was copped guilty by someone else' as a ploy to push a mislynch with the force of a cop claim and then be able to squirm out of it the next day if dragon flipped town.

Right now I am willing to go with bulb, garmr or bbt. All three are scummy IMHO.

so you think dragon is actually town can you tell me why

Could you tell me why I am?

And why you need to fake a guilty on me if its so obvious?

This is just one example of him trying to push that I was trying to set him up and trying to get a lynch through on me.

Was going to make this longer but getting tired of typing while I see people ninja me in the preview

Like I said whole lot of nothin

[dragonspawn]

Guys I just requests to replace out. An issue has come up in my family and I wont have the time to play the game as I need to.

This decision has nothing to do with the game itself. I was actually starting to wonder how long I would stay alive before you mislynched me. I was hoping it was the entire game with no mislynch but I just don't have the energy to deal with real life at the moment and give you all the game play you deserve for me.

I honestly had no expectation of doing this when I woke up this morning but it's amazing how fast things change. It's been a fun game and I love all you guys (in a plutonic friendly way) even garmr who I tunneling me too much this game.

Go town!