Then maybe there is a strongman amongst them. I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility.implosion wrote:why aren't you clearing kraska and shannon based on this though. They're also clear if they're non-strongman scum. You're the same level of clear as they are.In post 6122, Zachstralkita wrote:if kraska is trusting A50, I should be clear according to A50's claim so by extension I should be town in her eyes.
New York 196: My Game, My Flavor Mafia (Mafia Win)
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Implosion is here, so A50 is not the last claimed PR. That point is null.shannon wrote:In post 6137, implosion wrote:not me.
If A50 is scum it's a pretty clever tactic to have claimed to have protected me and taken out the other PR. Now we're less likely to risk lynching A50 (since he's our last claimed PR) and everyone is confused about who the scum is.-
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In post 6145, implosion wrote:
And what do you make of the negative motion detector result on shannon?In post 6140, Zachstralkita wrote:No, that is the truth since you are confirmed and I believe A50.
I'm pretty sure we win if we lynch inside kraska/shannon.
Was there one on kraska too? No? THENNNNNNNNNNN WE HAVE A ROPE WINNER DING DING DING DING-
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I need A50 to confirm he went on me N4 and N5 or tell me I'm fucking crazy.In post 6157, shannon wrote:Yeah. OK, so back to you - which nights were you protected/monitored, and who died those nights?-
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Except I'm town so the probability of that drops to 0.00%In post 6195, implosion wrote:at the risk of adding a wifom element to the kill tonight, zach is very, very probably scum. Very, very, very probably. Assuming kraska flips town.-
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A50 jailed me two nights in a row and a kill happened on one of them. I'm vanilla townie, so I cannot be a strongman. I am clear.In post 6192, implosion wrote:Given the nature of roles that have been flipped I think the only conceivable situation in which power roles' targets tonight matter is if Zach is a limited-shot strongman who is out of shots. To that end it would be helpful if A50 either jails zach or doesn't announce his target or follow a plan for the sake of following a plan. If he doesn't trust me then he should jailkeep me though.
It'd be fucking nice if you had you know not rushed when actually coordinating these things in advance is KIND OF IMPORTANT-
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In post 6200, implosion wrote:see zach if we're both alive tomorrow and you want me to not lynch you you're going to have to make actual cogent arguments. Just a warning.
Not lynching me and the town winning are connected -- what do you need to warn me of if we both have the same objective? Do you actually think I should feel threatened? There's nothing I can do if you want to ignore the obvious. Just a warning.-
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Haha. No.shannon wrote:
Are you trying to save me here or prove something? Because I've already been jailkept *and* motion detected.In post 6208, Zachstralkita wrote:A50 jail shannon tonight pls
If it's a strongman as I suspect, his doctor ability becomes uselessshannon wrote:
But if implosion is jailkept he can't doctor anyoneIn post 6211, Zachstralkita wrote:Since strongman , whoever A50 goes on doesn't matter but to be on the safe side it should be either one of me or implo-
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Except I'm town tho and while I have definitely contributed to such a result happening, if you continue along this train of thought we are going to lose.In post 6215, implosion wrote:zach how can the last scum possibly be a strongman fypov. It can't be me because I'm role-confirmed. It can't be shannon because she had no motion on a night with a kill. It would have to be a50 and then your discussions are irrelevant and him being a strongman is much less relevant than you being a strongman. Like, post 6210 makes 0 sense.
Really as far as i'm concerned shannon is clear because she would literally HAVE to be a joat with shots of ninja & strongman and have used them perfectly. Just outside the realm of possibility.
The more I look at a50's claim and subsequent play the less it makes any sense whatsoever as scum. He doesn't strike me as the kind of player who would be audacious enough to say "lynch me then implosion" as scum today, or who would make the jailkeeper claim at the time he did to try to counterclaim Dunnstral. Zach strikes me as a player who is very definitely audacious enough to do the things that he's done (his selfvoting shenanigans, his callimg himself clear) as scum. They do 0 to convince me he's town.
If you believe A50 and you yourself are clear and I am town, POE leaves shannon.
If shannon can't be scum to you then A50 has been lying. But as I have said before, I don't see the circumstances surrounding A50's claim scum-motivated at all. Thus I am left with shannon, A50 played a masterful scum game, or this game was loaded.
Option 1 is most likely in my eyes.-
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- I'm not scumimplosion wrote:Then please explain to me how shannon can be scum having been both jailkept and negatively motion detected during kills.
- you're not scum
- A50 is not scum(this is the ONLY debatable)
You can try and contest the fact that I'm town but that will contribute to scum winning.-
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Exactly what does this corner entail? Hang on... let me look at the wall.shannon wrote:
Zach I think you've backed yourself in to a bit of a corner here. It's not that I can't be scum 'to him', it's not based on a read of my play it's based on me having been JKed and MDed on nights that had kills.In post 6216, Zachstralkita wrote:
Except I'm town tho and while I have definitely contributed to such a result happening, if you continue along this train of thought we are going to lose.In post 6215, implosion wrote:zach how can the last scum possibly be a strongman fypov. It can't be me because I'm role-confirmed. It can't be shannon because she had no motion on a night with a kill. It would have to be a50 and then your discussions are irrelevant and him being a strongman is much less relevant than you being a strongman. Like, post 6210 makes 0 sense.
Really as far as i'm concerned shannon is clear because she would literally HAVE to be a joat with shots of ninja & strongman and have used them perfectly. Just outside the realm of possibility.
The more I look at a50's claim and subsequent play the less it makes any sense whatsoever as scum. He doesn't strike me as the kind of player who would be audacious enough to say "lynch me then implosion" as scum today, or who would make the jailkeeper claim at the time he did to try to counterclaim Dunnstral. Zach strikes me as a player who is very definitely audacious enough to do the things that he's done (his selfvoting shenanigans, his callimg himself clear) as scum. They do 0 to convince me he's town.
If you believe A50 and you yourself are clear and I am town, POE leaves shannon.
If shannon can't be scum to you then A50 has been lying. But as I have said before, I don't see the circumstances surrounding A50's claim scum-motivated at all. Thus I am left with shannon, A50 played a masterful scum game, or this game was loaded.
Option 1 is most likely in my eyes.
" Lynch Zach if kraska flips green and CONGRATULATIONS!!! you lose the game "
Okay, I think I'm up to speed here.-
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In post 6221, shannon wrote:Just saying you're town is not enough to prove that you're town. A50 and Implosion have both claimed roles, gone unchallenged, and given results that seem plausible. I've been cleared by a MD and by the JK, on nights when there were kills. You've only been cleared by the JK, so you could've dunnit if you're a strongman - or the JK could have done it and being lying the whole time. If you're town, then it's A50, and you ned to do something to try to show that.
I don't " need " to do anything. Especially if you tell me to.-
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If you're a ninja the motion detector problem is easy to get around.
You yourself doubt A50 and encourage me to so you can't really be " cleared " by a JK if you don't believe the JK is a JK, enough to try and persuade me into voting the JK when I think it's clear what the real answer is?
I think you are actually the one in the corner.-
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Um, but like,In post 6225, implosion wrote:
But if she's a ninja then she's not a strongman... and if she's scum then a50 has to be town (assuming one scum left).In post 6224, Zachstralkita wrote:If you're a ninja the motion detector problem is easy to get around.
You yourself doubt A50 and encourage me to so you can't really be " cleared " by a JK if you don't believe the JK is a JK, enough to try and persuade me into voting the JK when I think it's clear what the real answer is?
I think you are actually the one in the corner.
It's like you're not reading what we're saying. You don't get to simply declare "I'm town, and that isn't open to discussion." That simply isn't how the game works. You are, in my opinion, the strongest candidate for scum. I've made it very clear why i think so and you haven't directly addressed the one very simple reason that I think shannon is town.I told you, if you keep thinking that then we're going to lose. This is what you're missing. Why would I EVER deceive you, friend?
My entire point of that post was:
Sure, I can call A50 a JK because I think it is. She can NOT doubt his legitimacy and believe he is a JK at the same time, which is EXACTLY what happened.-
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In post 6227, implosion wrote:Zach you've literally never played mafia with anyone who uses logic before have you
That's uh, a stretch.
well RIPimplosion wrote:Let me spell this out nice and clear.
I don't give a shit if shannon disbelieves A50 but also trusts his ability to clear people as a jailkeeper. I don't give a shit about this for two reasons. The simpler is that it isn't actually logically inconsistent like you seem to be implying it is, at least, under the assumption that one scum remains. But the other reason is thatshe is cleared by both a motion detector and a jailkeeper claim.I don't care what she's saying; for her to be mafia, she would have to be an extremely specific role and have gotten very lucky. And the odds of that are just too low to even consider, not that I even find her play scummy in the first place (I frankly would likely be townreading her over you based on reads alone but I don't need to think about that anymore).
she could be a wacky JOATimplosion wrote:I'm effectively asking you a question and getting a response in an entirely different language.
I don't know that you're town. If you want me to believe that you are town (and if you are town and believe that I am town and shannon is scum, you should want this), then I need to know how you're reconciling your belief that shannon is scum with the actions that were claimed on her.
i'm not sure why this has to be such an impossible impossibility-
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implosion seems to have you covered on that front, OR he could just you know continue to think im scumIn post 6233, kraska77 wrote:Guys what if transcend was right and a50 somehow cooked all of this up
its really a 50/50 then-
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In post 5402, Almost50 wrote:
I'll play. Let's ASSUME for the sake of argument (and I can't stress more on this being a HYPOTHETICAL assumption, bc I AM a JK). This only leaves us with 2 possibilities:In post 5349, Boem_u_dusi wrote:I don't believe Almost50 is a jailkeeper at this point,
1- I'm town and BSing like many of you have been.
2- I'm scum and KNEW my OWN PARTNER was a JK, yet I opted to claim a JK of all possible fake claims available in the wiki.
Take a pick.
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In post 6254, Almost50 wrote:
I have no idea what you're talking about. I jailed implosion as we had agreed. He was the only one left for me to jail.In post 6252, Zachstralkita wrote:So A50, what was your actual fucking role? Did scum have a JK /RB, or two JKs?
I'll be frank: If YOU were the 1-shot strongman then you've done a hell of a job. This would explain why the first night I jailed you there was no kill, but then how did you guess I was going to jail you the next night too?
If it's implosion, he certainly wasn't a 1-shot or he was really really really lucky picking his targets.
I know it's not me, but I can understand how the town player of you two can get confused, and I won't blame them if they do end up voting me along with scum.
I certainly won't be voting either of you before I've re--read the whole thread once more and figured out "who said what why". From a recent skim through I noted Dunn would have voted you over implosion, but Transcend, Boem & kraska would have gone for implosion. Wake would have voted me though, and podoboq may have been on me or implosion but probably not you.
Anyway, because there's definitely something I'm missing here I think I need more time to try and figure it out, and if not then it'd be like a penalty kick. Scum now feel the goal is too wide for them to defend, while I see it as small as a needle hole!
My only question is if this
In post 4258, Varsoon wrote:I am a backup Nurse.
I know there is a Nurse and a Doctor in the game.
I had thought my role told me they were atownnurse and doctor, but it turns out that they could be any alignment.
At the very least, I can confirm their claim, which is likely to be town, imo.
post by Varsoon leaves it open for implosion to be scum. Otherwise his role confirms implosion and this is check for you.-
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Almost50 wrote:My answer is "I don't know", but here's an excerpt from the wiki (page: Normal Game) under "Roles" and it says "Modifiers which are explicitly Normal for any alignment include: Ascetic, Backup (with or without primary role present), Bulletproof, .. etc .. etc..
What did catch my attention is the "with or without primary role present". It might be weird, but it's possible to to have had a doctor + back up nurse without the presence of a nurse, so when the doctor goes then the backup nurse would become a nurse (i.e. backup doctor) without the presence of a doctor.
However, it is still weird, and what's weirder is the vibes I'm getting from your posts today. You are not exactly you tbh. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I it feels like you feel victorious already. I'm still undecided and I would like for implosion to come share his views at this point. If he IS a doctor, and IS town, then you -sir- have played an awesome game thus far, but you need to convince him to vote me or me to vote him still, which won't be easy. I'd hate to come this far and then vote for the wrong person.
I don't really have to prove anything, I am VT after all-
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Probably cause I'm on some serious drugs.In post 6265, Almost50 wrote:
Tell me something, Zack: How come you've always defended me all game long and never doubted me until today? Also, why would I clear you and keep you alive, and then come today to declare I also jailed implosion last night? If I'm scum (thus by default I'm NOT a JK to begin with), why clear you and off someone else like Varsoon? In my mind, the right play would've been to kill YOU and let Varsoon live (or -generally speaking- kill the clears and leave the unconfirmed to end game).
You're really aiming in the wrong direction going at me, though. I want you to know that.
So I want to vote imploder.-
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In post 5557, Dunnstral wrote:Zach might actually be mafia who bussed hard
Even Dunn couldn't believe my reads were that good this game. And they WEREN'T even that good.In post 5558, Dunnstral wrote:Zach is normally completely (like 90%) wrong on who is scum so it's weird that they've been falling left and right - heavy bussing suspected
Please tell me detective, why would I intentionally do that when I could have, you know, played like I played the rest of the game where I didn't get lynched? What do I benefit from bluffing hard when there's no need to and would decrease the chances of me surviving?Almost50 wrote: In light of this I'm reconsidering my stance on you, tbh. Your most recent "I don't need to prove a thing" is also bugging me. We're in LyLo, and you do need to convince me you're town if we're going to win this, but I fear if things stay the way they are I might be persuaded to vote you over implosion and hope that it's the right decision.-
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I fucked up because I helped speedlynch Boem and kraska. I effectively canceled out the advantage we had.
Why the fuck would I be so reckless as scum whencautionis the exact reason the last scum has made it to the final 3? It doesn't make sense. As scum, the objective is to not get lynched, not to appear town. And you can see that implosion is trying to not get lynched in his post.
implosion wouldn't have wrote those 3 extra paragraphs if he were town. Varsoon's role along with Peregrine's flip should have been the only reason he needed. Instead, he also says " but there are other better reasons to think that I'm town over him.", which is excessive and seems paranoid. It looks like he's just covering all his bases, but if he was honestly town there would be literally no reason to do that.-
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Like I SAID SHE WOULD ON DAY 1?In post 6271, Almost50 wrote:
Oh, shut! Titus did flip TOWN!In post 6270, Zachstralkita wrote:If you looked at me and Titus interactions when we were voting each other and you DON'T see TvT, then I can't help you.
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In post 6276, Almost50 wrote:OK, you both are bringing good points to the table, although I still feel implosion's arguments are more solid to be extremely blunt.
OK, Zack: how do you explain the Varsoon role in light of Scum!implosion? Because that point in his argument is solid as a rock.
In post 4258, Varsoon wrote:I am a backup Nurse.
I know there is a Nurse and a Doctor in the game.
I had thought my role told me they were atownnurse and doctor, but it turns out that they could be any alignment.
At the very least, I can confirm their claim, which is likely to be town, imo.
Point blank, Varsoon's role confirms role, not alignment. He even says here that it's ambiguous.-
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In post 6281, implosion wrote:What part of what I said are you calling objectively not true? And why do you say that?
And if it's that I don't think you look like you're trying to figure out who scum is today, in what way can you justify that you objectively appear to be scumhunting today?
I've ISO'd you both and I didn't want to believe it because A50 has been my townread all game. But what sealed it for me is that A50 is acting like the conf here when you should be. I dunno, picking between you two was probably the worst LYLO I could end up in, and I directly helped influence that.-
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I would appreciate if you voted yourself and lostAlmost50 wrote:This game is killing me. I hate to lose, but I'd hate it even more if I was the reason we lost. For what it's worth, implo still looks more convincing to me. I took Zach for granted way too long, but -gun to my head and forced to cast a vote right now- I think I'll vote him.
Is there anything more either of you would like to add, ask, or advise me to do? (Other than the "vote him bc I'm town" cliché).-
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Is that right.Almost50 wrote:
Now you're being overly silly! I can't do that as either alignment, but I view this as a tactic to avoid responding to the points thrown your way by both implosion and myself.In post 6284, Zachstralkita wrote:I would appreciate if you voted yourself and lost
It would appear so.Almost50 wrote: Let me get this straight: You are town, and you believe implosion is town, and think that I'm scum. Is this your final stance?-
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Zachstralkita Jack of All Trades
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Almost50 wrote:
Now you're being overly silly! I can't do that as either alignment, but I view this as a tactic to avoid responding to the points thrown your way by both implosion and myself.In post 6284, Zachstralkita wrote:I would appreciate if you voted yourself and lost
Let me get this straight: You are town, and you believe implosion is town, and think that I'm scum. Is this your final stance?
I may as well lose here if no one sees that these posts are practically a scumclaim.Almost50 wrote:This game is killing me. I hate to lose, but I'd hate it even more if I was the reason we lost. For what it's worth, implo still looks more convincing to me. I took Zach for granted way too long, but -gun to my head and forced to cast a vote right now- I think I'll vote him.
Is there anything more either of you would like to add, ask, or advise me to do? (Other than the "vote him bc I'm town" cliché).-
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Zachstralkita Jack of All Trades
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No. Your supposed " POV " should have two outcomes, implosion being scum and him winning when he helps you vote me.Almost50 wrote:LOL.. a scum claim?? The reason I asked if that was your final stance is to help me ease my mind voting you. Even if you're town; voting me loses the game. So -from my own PoV- I can only vote you and hope implo will join me AND that he is actually town.
You say " even if you're town; voting me loses the game" and in the same breath you declare you're going to vote me?
You realize what that means, right? It means you acknowledge that I could be town(you know I'm town) and you still opt for that. You're not attacking implosion because he's not a threat to your safety. You don't really care about the town's win condition -- your play doesn't indicate such.
You know what, JUST for you.implosion wrote:I am curious what exactly in those posts you're referring to, Zach; I think I know what you're referring to (in which case I have more questions of course) but. If you could explain things clearly rather than just pointing to posts and irreverently declaring them scumclaims it would be much more helpful.
Almost50 wrote:This game is killing me. I hate to lose, but I'd hate it even more if I was the reason we lost.For what it's worth, implo still looks more convincing to me. I took Zach for granted way too long, but -gun to my head and forced to cast a vote right now- I think I'll vote him.
Is there anything more either of you would like to add, ask, or advise me to do? (Other than the "vote him bc I'm town" cliché).[/quote]
BOLDED: LAMIST, for lack of a better term. He's treating himself as the conf and deciding vote and indirectly assuming authority. YOU'RE the one that should be holding and wielding this authority, implosion, by all means.
Almost50 wrote:
Now you're being overly silly! I can't do that as either alignment, but I view this as a tactic to avoid responding to the points thrown your way by both implosion and myself.In post 6284, Zachstralkita wrote:I would appreciate if you voted yourself and lost
Let me get this straight: You are town, and you believe implosion is town, and think that I'm scum. Is this your final stance?
BOLDED: An obvious twisted interpretation of my actions to suit his agenda. He also says " I can't do that as either alignment", just to cover all the bases like a smug fluffy scum ostrich would. Do you not agree this is the case?
The last sentence is like, he's... there was no need to say that. It's obviously what I'm saying.-
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Zachstralkita Jack of All Trades
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Zachstralkita wrote:
No. Your supposed " POV " should have two outcomes, implosion being scum and him winning when he helps you vote me.Almost50 wrote:LOL.. a scum claim?? The reason I asked if that was your final stance is to help me ease my mind voting you. Even if you're town; voting me loses the game. So -from my own PoV- I can only vote you and hope implo will join me AND that he is actually town.
You say " even if you're town; voting me loses the game" and in the same breath you declare you're going to vote me?
You realize what that means, right? It means you acknowledge that I could be town(you know I'm town) and you still opt for that. You're not attacking implosion because he's not a threat to your safety. You don't really care about the town's win condition -- your play doesn't indicate such.
You know what, JUST for you.implosion wrote:I am curious what exactly in those posts you're referring to, Zach; I think I know what you're referring to (in which case I have more questions of course) but. If you could explain things clearly rather than just pointing to posts and irreverently declaring them scumclaims it would be much more helpful.
Almost50 wrote:This game is killing me. I hate to lose, but I'd hate it even more if I was the reason we lost.For what it's worth, implo still looks more convincing to me. I took Zach for granted way too long, but -gun to my head and forced to cast a vote right now- I think I'll vote him.
Is there anything more either of you would like to add, ask, or advise me to do? (Other than the "vote him bc I'm town" cliché).[/quote]
BOLDED: LAMIST, for lack of a better term. He's treating himself as the conf and deciding vote and indirectly assuming authority. YOU'RE the one that should be holding and wielding this authority, implosion, by all means.
Almost50 wrote:In post 6284, Zachstralkita wrote:I would appreciate if you voted yourself and lostNow you're being overly silly! I can't do that as either alignment, but I view this as a tactic to avoid responding to the points thrown your way by both implosion and myself.
Let me get this straight: You are town, and you believe implosion is town, and think that I'm scum. Is this your final stance?
BOLDED: An obvious twisted interpretation of my actions to suit his agenda. He also says " I can't do that as either alignment", just to cover all the bases like a smug fluffy scum ostrich would. Do you not agree this is the case?
The last sentence is like, he's... there was no need to say that. It's obviously what I'm saying.
FUCK. I FUCKED UP THE QUOTE SO I DIDNT BOLD IT. fixed.-
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Zachstralkita Jack of All Trades
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Zachstralkita Jack of All Trades
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Zachstralkita Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 9286
- Joined: April 2, 2016
- Location: Demoned Away