Mafia 75: Return of the Mafia! TOWN WINS (really late)

[armlx]

Vote Battlemage

. I'm really not a fan of his actions so far. Trying to push a bandwagon for an obvious conclusion, and his roundabout way of claiming miller. Feels off.

[armlx]

META DISCUSSION:

Honestly, if claiming miller is the norm or becomes it, far more games will be lost to scum claiming miller than millers being copped. I guaruntee it as not every game has a miller.

[armlx]

Things I don't like:

Matt_S's removal of FOS to stop bandwagonning.

Battlemage's post 92 feel like a slip up to me. Vote stands.

Nemesis pushing the BM wagon for the OMGUS reason, not the "I don't believe his miller claim" reason.

Everyone attacking Rosso for saying something that he would say.

[armlx]

Let me respond:

Nemesis, you were pushing it earlier, which was what I was referring to.

Matt_S: The fact you used an FOS to do it was very sketchy. You weren't even really committed to the wagon. And your response about "not wanting to be connected" isn't helping.

Unvote, Vote Matt_S

Normally I don't like to cut established players slack for meta reasons, especially those based on what I deem bad play, but Matt_S is acting far too concerned about his every precise move. It seems kinda sketchy. And the over reacting scum tell rearing it's head.

Actually voting without reason is constructive as it's easy to spot trends. FOSing without reason is a lot more low key and inciting.

[armlx]

jesus, we are knee deep in newbies.

[armlx]

More people should post. Thats how we get info and what not. Seems like every post is BM continuing his last one, and I already have the read on him.

[armlx]

Unvote, vote oEJo.

Thoughts on the cult? BM's miller claim? Rosso Carne's excessive knowledge on the cult or lack thereof?

I feel like pressuring lurkers is something that needs to happen in this game. 30 people will make it very easy for people to skate through the game.

vote:ninja

do NOT like posts like this.

I agree here, especially since he was one of the lurkers I noticed should start posting. Looks to me like an I'm here, I said something that pertains to the game, vote someone, go find other people to yell at.

Unvote, Vote ninja

[armlx]

Yeah, typically the flavor differences I've seen in generic games are

Straight up hand gun, Tommy gun / any automatic: Mafia

Most non-gun deaths: SK, very rarely body guard (typically involves the works professionally done if its body guard)

Poison: Can be cult depending on scenario

Snipe / Shotgun: Pro-town killing group, snipe can be other sometimes.

[armlx]

Because he says "Yeah go press lurkers" when he is one of those lurkers and is making it look like he wasn't one.

[armlx]

I'm down with my vote or voting for Nanosauromo. I say we press both wagons a bit more and see where it goes.

[armlx]

It's newbie logic, although it's also Fritzler logic.

QFT sir.

[armlx]

N0 vig kills are bad. N1 vig kills can be justified. Simple as that.

[armlx]

is conversation about the vig helping anyone else?

It's teaching people how to play the game better. So in the context of this game, no. In the context of the meta, yes. And it's not hurting this one.

[armlx]

0, its purpose has been served (AKA vig should not kill someone unless they have logical reason to believe they are scum).

I'm in the process of looking at everyone's posts. So far I'm not liking WhoMe? on top of the 2 people I already said (3 with watching BM to ensure claim). I'll look closer later to see exactly what it is I don't like.

[armlx]

Unvote, Vote BattleMage

Claims miller, so we can't cop confirm him, wagons based on someone else's crap logic. Man, back where I was 8 pages ago.

[armlx]

so if Battlemage is the Miller, then what armix?

Someone who feels they have a good enough read on him to call his bluff.

[armlx]

so basically either

BM is lying scum and is claiming miller to avoid investigations

or

BM is telling the truth, he's basically vanilla, but there's always going to be that uncertainty about him, and scum will try to play on that to get him lynched at a crucial moment


Am I missing something or is this the situation? If this is the case I may switch my vote to BM, because I don't see much of a down side.

Thats actually about 66% correct. There's an option C that he had some kind of role on top of miller thats exactly the same as option B otherwise.

[armlx]

WTF, CKD, who mentioned a lyncher?

Miller have approximately 0% connection with lynchers. A miller is simply a pro-town player that shows up anti-town to cops. A lyncher wins if a specific person is lynched (not sure how it's chosen, never played a lyncher game or wanted it in a set up b/c IMO roles like that are pretty awful). No connection what so ever.

Millers know they are millers more often than not from what I have seen recently, however when I started playing it was common not to tell them.

[armlx]

the first game I played in where there was a Miller...he was the target of a Lyncher...I thought that was how it was always played out. If you find a Miller, then there was also a Lyncher..I guess I am wrong here and it was just specific to that game?

Pretty much.

[armlx]

I agree it takes big balls to run that. However, I have lost enough times to these bluffs that I have realized there is only a certain extent you can let them fly before you rescind the get out of jail free pass, and BM's claim seemed really forced to me and his behavior since then has not convinced me otherwise.

[armlx]

I'm going to reread again, vote stands for now, but I'm fine with people realizing BM has to die eventually and can't be auto-cleared because of this. Thats probably better than a D1 lynch on someone scummy who won't really contribute that much.

[armlx]

so basically either

BM is lying scum and is claiming miller to avoid investigations

or

BM is telling the truth, he's basically vanilla, but there's always going to be that uncertainty about him, and scum will try to play on that to get him lynched at a crucial moment


Am I missing something or is this the situation? If this is the case I may switch my vote to BM, because I don't see much of a down side.

Thats actually about 66% correct. There's an option C that he had some kind of role on top of miller thats exactly the same as option B otherwise.

This is a surprisingly perceptive post. It isnt especially a town-tell, but it shows me that you are thinking objectively at least. Of course, it also raises the question of, Why the hell are you voting for me, if you think this is a possibility?
Im seeing hypocrisy here....

BM

I am voting you because I believe you fall under option A, rather than B or C. The 66% wasn't referring to your case, but instead the fact WhoMe? had found 2/3 of the realistic possibilities.

There is the possibility you are town, and I've considered it. However, there are two things I also considered.

First, I believe that the estimated gain from lynching you is higher than the estimated loss. The gain from lynching you as lying scum is far greater than the loss from lynching you as town miller and visa versa, less gain for you living as town miller compared to loss of you living as mafia with claim.

Second, given your behavior I'm leaning that you are more likely scum safe claiming based on a metagame. I've never been more than about 75% certain throughout the game, but its enough given the first point.

The auto-clear thing is in regards to miller being unclearable by cop. B/c you claimed miller should not mean we accept you as town, as there's no realistic way to assure you are.

If someone who legitimately is a lot scummier than you are shows up, I'm willing to lynch them over you. However, at this point in time you are definitely the best lynch, and thus my vote stands until it is needed elsewhere.

[armlx]

I really don't know who to vote for. It's kinda hard to decide.

It's not like you can't change your mind and unvote later. Make some kind of note about who you think is scumm.

This applies for everyone else who hasn't said much as well.

Don't think I've stated this so far, but my top 4 are (from least good to best lynch):

Sweatpants Ninja
Nanosauramo
Incognito
Battlemage

Incognito did one of the things I attacked BM for (BM is still up like 3 to 1 though, including the claim), and there for is scummier than the people I attacked for not doing things.

[armlx]

Imat? Seems like a newbie who hasn't become acquainted with the random voting phase.

I forgot to mention in my last post that Incongito also lurked before coming back to hop on the wagon. He's the only person so far that's close enough to overcome Battlemage as a legitimate lynch choice IMO. The other 2 are more FOS worthy, with definite potential for pressuring.

[armlx]

Also, I am a newb to this forum, so I don't really see the point of random voting.

Without random voting, there's few realistic ways of getting discussion started that don't lead to set up speculation and other awkward scenarios.

[armlx]

Truly random voting is not really helpful to the town.

The reactions that form off of 1 person true randoming are interesting though.

[armlx]

And, now thats its been described, I do see the point of random voting a tiny bit. However, I still feel it has its own major drawbacks.

Such as? Having to type and bold Unvote in a later post?

[armlx]

Unvote

Vote: VanDamien

Explain plz.

[armlx]

I voted for VanDamien because he has been vote-hopping throughout today.

Can you please quantify said vote hopping? From my cursory reread, I'm seeing 2 random votes and 2 non-randoms, which is exactly the same as most people. Can you fill in the blanks as to how his actions were vote hopping, especially before his Charity vote which I can see as justifiable.

[armlx]

armlx, I disagree with your assessment of "which is exactly the same as most people".

Looking at the vote count archive, Van Damien vote-hopped throughout the first 175 posts, more than anyone else.

If someone else vote-hopped with the same frequency, then I missed it.

When I filter the game by his posts ("Display posts ... by ..." at bottom of this web page), Van Damien seems to be jumping from one player to the next.

Even though he's currently voting for Charity, he's made two recent posts wanting to vote for thenextepsiode next.

You currently have your top 4 suspects, and I have my top suspect, and they aren't the same people. We probably won't agree / be on the same bandwagon until a deadline appears and one of us change our minds.

I didn't realize he replaced in just looking at his posts. His first vote was towards the end of the random process, and his second looked random at first glance. I can see where you are coming from now that I realized that, but I still tink my top 4 are scummier.

[armlx]

oEJo now moves on par with Incognito on my scum list. I can excuse the first attempt at poor logic voting as him trying to progress the game, but this too just looks like him trying to push dumb wagons.

[armlx]

Waiting for oEJo's response before possibly changing my vote.

[armlx]

I'm not convinced you don't have an additional role. I'm just more convinced its more probably that you don't or (specifically) are scum. The scum thing mainly comes from your first interaction with Nemesis, which I felt was absurd yet phrase well enough to garner support from less logical people and mainly following the oEJo started wagon, which is what the top 3 scummy people on my list did (You, oEJo, Incognito). Also the circumstances of your claim seem odd to me, but I'm going to have to think how to exactly qualify what I mean by this.

Scum safe claim of miller: How many people doubted you besides me? One, two? You see my point? (By safe claim I don't mean a mod granted one, but a role people believe to be confirmed as pro-town ie. scum claiming doctor + people not dying one night and no counterclaim). As for WIFOM being a null-tell.... I'm not so sure on that, though your claim is only a WIFOM on the metagame level.

I'm not auto accepting you as scum. I unvoted you after real discussion started and actually scummy people started to appear and revoted after you pinged my scumdar on top of my early suspicions. Just based on this, I'ld probably have you top 3 on my scuminess list with Incognito and oEJo, but combined with the miller claim I'm willing to put you ahead of them.

I'm fairly sure I enumerated my reasons why you were scummy in the post I voted you BTW. If they weren't clear enough, I'm sorry to cause confusion which prevented you from responding in a more apt manner to my points.

[armlx]

armlx, I've got a few questions for you related to your stance on Battle Mage. Your stance seems to be that because Battle Mage has claimed the role of Miller and we have no verifiable, fool-proof way of determining whether or not he's telling the truth, he should be lynched at some point in the game. Let's suppose Battle Mage does an exceptionally good job at what he has listed as one of his interests in his profile: scum hunting. Do you think he still would be a good candidate for the lynch?

*Bonus point* Why or why not?

Yes, he is still a good choice for the lynch. He is still acting scummy on top of the claim. Other people could become better choices however, and definitely had he not acted just as scummy as those people have so far I would be 100% in favor of putting off his lynch for a later day under the understanding it has to happen eventually. However, like I said, it's pretty much to the point where I'ld be voting him regardless of calling his WIFOM.

[armlx]

FoS: Armlix

Battle Mage is scummy in all his games. He tends to be a lightning rod for scum to start BWs on.

He is? From what I had heard about him second hand he seemed like a far too well respected player for me to assume he would get repeatedly wagoned for being scummy.

[armlx]

If anything that game has made me much more sure of my vote. If he was willing to run the old claim cop as townie, the odds he would run the claim miller as scum go WAY up.

[armlx]

Incognito: Sorry, I didn't see that due to my simul post. I thought it was already there and I had read it already when checking the thread later.

What I mean is if the town came to an understanding that BM should not be allowed to live to the end game (as it just leads to really awkward scenarios any way you look at it) I would be willing to go after other people.

As for why he won't die, lets assume BM is town. Why would scum kill someone that the town will always doubt at least a little bit? He wouldn't die as scum either, as every scum group would think the same thing. More or less, either way he lives unless the town decides he should die, whether it be vig or lynch.

BM:

I'm not just condemning you for the Nemesis thing. You also followed oEJo's terrible logic bandwagon, as did Incognito. Notice who my top 3 scummy people are? Yeah, you 3.

Also, Nemesis is hardly a new player. Look at his join date, he's been around twice as long as you.

Imat:

So you are saying that because the odds of someone we are lynching are slanted towards them being town, we shouldn't push for their lynch? Isn't this always true (between 2/3 and 3/4 are pro-town in most games). My point is while BM claiming miller still means he is more likely to be pro-town, he is less likely to be pro-town than a random player, and even less likely given his behavior. If this isn't what you meant, feel free to clarify so I can respond to the correct question.

[armlx]

Imat:

I've already said I accept that BM could be the miller. However, while you feel he has answered questions, I feel he has only answered the irrelevant meta based ones while avoiding answering issues about his behavior in game. While you say his behavior isn't super scummy, the thing so far it relatively is the scummiest in game by a fair amount.

As for questions, feel free to ask more or point out the ones I have missed (as Incognito did) and I will answer them. I think I have answered all the ones so far and am just waiting on responses from those who asked them and other people to respond to continue those lines of discussion.

Also, 1 more question to BM and a statement

especially in a game like this, were i scum, id much rather set up some newer players by drawing them into the limelight.

Look at your vote on Imat. At least to me, this seems like exactly like what you are trying to do. Set up someone who is clearly new and doesn't understand the specific style of play (ie random votes) here with arguments that only apply to those who choose to buck the current system knowingly.

Now the question: Don't you think newer players would be more willing to accept an experienced player making a miller claim, where as experienced players would be more likely to consider and call a bluff as I have?

[armlx]

BM: Fair point on the experience player thing. However, again, what worries me is no one doubts you. I'm sorry my logic is circular here, but I hope you understand what I'm getting at.

Edit in same post: Hmm, thought of good way to explain it.


Doubt:
Town: Lynched
Scum: Lynched

Same both ways.

No Doubt:
Town: Possible NK, possible live with attempt to make people doubt you
Scum: Less possible NK (via other killing group), claim you were let live to sow doubt when questioned.

Possible WIFOM both ways, probably resulting in you being lynched IMO.

Wagon: The wagon I'm referring to is the one on TNE, on the bottom of page 9 and top of page 10. Posts 215, 232, 233.

Imat vote: My point was Imat's play was clearly a new play mistake, and you attacking him for it with a vote seemed a lot like what you were describing where you draw out a dumb newbie mistake as a scum tell. Same with the TNE issue.


Newbs and miller claims: I'ld expect newbs to follow what a good player claims to be the meta choice as opposed to attacking him for it, where as experienced players are more likely to consider every possibility.

[armlx]

New post for new topic branch:

Incognito is now second on my list to lynch again maybe over taking BM based on later actions. I just realized his vote on TNE was long enough (chronologically) after BM's for him to take into account one of the stronger players had signed onto the band wagon. I missed this as I read both posts at the same time every other time and didn't look at IRL time stamps, just relative in game ones. My suspicions increase 10 fold if BM turns out not mafia, and probably decrease if he does turn out mafia. If the town can agree to eventually off BM or as previously stated Incognito does something dumb, I will vote him.

[armlx]

367 reworded:

The issue is regardless of BM being pro-town, mafia, whether we do/don't trust him, it all ends the same: his lynch. If we trust him now his lynch ends as a WIFOM choice, which could be awkward.

So, show of hands: Who thinks BM needs to be lynched, not necessarily today, but before the end game approaches.

BTW

FOS Incognito

. Just to make it easier to see on later review.

[armlx]

Armlx, can you not read. Ive already pointed out why such a discussion now only benefits the mafia, as it allows and encourages them to invoke such a WIFOM situation. I dont see why you are still pushing this.

FoS: Armlx

I'm actually fairly sure you haven't posted anything about that. Please link/quote/give post #.

If anything, my discussion is eliminating the WIFOM by dealing with it before it becomes a series of WIFOMs within WIFOMs. I'm even presenting the correct solution to said WIFOM.

All in all, this post borders on "Stop saying bad things about me or I'll OMGUS you".

[armlx]

So, show of hands: Who thinks BM needs to be lynched, not necessarily today, but before the end game approaches.

He's probably

going

to be killed, due to his experience, but the fact you want him dead so intently is suspect, especially after his rational responses.

All in all, this post borders on "Stop saying bad things about me or I'll OMGUS you".

All of your posts seem to be leaning towards "let's hurry up and kill BM somehow". I agree with Khelvaster, BM has been a contributing, pro-town player, and you seem completely persistent in attempts to get him killed.

Again, I stated why he won't be killed last page. Please check that out before saying that.

Also, I believe you are putting words in my mouth. While I will not deny being a proponent of "Lets kill BM somehow", my stance is completely lacking in the "hurry up and do it" department. All I want is a town agreement he can not live beyond day 7ish (depending on how close to lynch or lose that is) so that the potential threat is nipped in the bud.

Also, I agree he has been contributing, however whether his contributions have been pro-town is where we disagree. If BM hadn't been so scummy after his claim, its very, very likely I would not be voting him. However, outside of his claim, he is either the 1st or second scummiest person, and when compounded with the claim.....

[armlx]

Incognito: Don't buy your reasoning. Simple as that.

As for multiple scum groups, we have been over this. There were 3 kills last night. Even with a dumb vig, there's 2 kills. That means there are at least 2 anti-town killing groups.

[armlx]

As I've said before, BM is nice to leave alone because scum tend to tunnel vision BM lynches to get an easy d1 lynch.

Cite examples, please.

[armlx]

Incognito: Sorry, I didn't see that due to my simul post. I thought it was already there and I had read it already when checking the thread later.

What I mean is if the town came to an understanding that BM should not be allowed to live to the end game (as it just leads to really awkward scenarios any way you look at it) I would be willing to go after other people.

As for why he won't die, lets assume BM is town. Why would scum kill someone that the town will always doubt at least a little bit? He wouldn't die as scum either, as every scum group would think the same thing.

You are being hypocritical here. On the one hand, you say that i will live to endgame because people doubt me, and yet, it is you making this mistake, not everyone else. You are CAUSING the problems that you are so worried about. Odds on i wont survive till endgame anyway, as one of the more experienced players, i may get NKed despite my claim. But if i do, be glad because i might be the difference between victory and defeat.

BM:

I'm not just condemning you for the Nemesis thing. You also followed oEJo's terrible logic bandwagon, as did Incognito. Notice who my top 3 scummy people are? Yeah, you 3.

Ah good, we appear to be getting somewhere. Please can you link me to this, or explain more fully?

BM

Armlx- here's that post you wanted. Tip number 1 for future games as scum-dont tell lies that are so easily traceable.
Your logic is absolutely terrible btw. I suspect we'll be having words at the end of the game.

BM

Thank you for referencing that. I didn't remember that part of the post.

However, again, like I said, I am hardly causing the problems. I'm simply trying to resolve them before they occur.

[armlx]

you make it more likely that the scum wont NK me, and instead, are more likely to hit our power roles.

Face palm. Logic 1, Me 0.

I still stand by the fact I'd rather get this sorted out before it becomes a series of WIFOMs (is this a gambit? If it was why didn't the scum kill him? etc.....) that becomes really awkward.

[armlx]

its going to be WIFOM anyway. The only thing this will achieve is bring YOU into the discussion, as obviously any WIFOM concerning my death or lack of is now going to tie directly to you. Just stop this discussion now, and lets move on please.

BM

Fair enough. This discussion isn't going to be any more productive than it already has been. I still think your actions are scummy enough to justify a vote however.

However, onward in the name of progress.

Unvote, Vote Incognito

Opportunistic wagoning, barning strong player logic, etc. See my previous posts on him.

[armlx]

Killa Seven, you went ahead and ruined it. If we treated him like 100% town, I was hoping that the scum would NK him. As it is, he's a lynch canidate merely because of his claim, and he casts doubt on himself, so he'll probably live to the endgame if we don't lynch him. I think he's town, so I don't care, but I know that a lot of people doubt this.

Congrats for saying one of the things I've been saying for 6 pages, only I believe BM has been legitimately scummy. Only you seem to have this idea that the mafia have no clue what they are doing and don't realize this as well. Seems like it would be obv to me. There was no ruining done.

[armlx]

WHEE!

agreed.

kill: thenextepisode

Lol.

[armlx]

Sounds like Rosso and scummy to me. Waiting on more reactions.

[armlx]

Has anybody played in a game where Rosso Carne was town? I'm getting the feeling this is just how he is.

It is just how he is, but its always worth pursuing slightly further. Thats what I meant by my post (its Rosso being Rosso and Rosso being scummy, more info will determine which is more accurate).

[armlx]

Khelvaster: To swap roles for a minute here, I'm going to defend BM. BM merely said he is more likely to slip up and make a dumb scum mistake, not break under pressure. The first and second are very different, which I can attest to as I haven't really done the second since my first couple games but some how manage to do the first way too often.

[armlx]

Yeah, good point Matt_S. Definitely deserves and

FOS killa seven

as its a misrepresentation, though only an FOS as the intent of it hard to read (accidental or not).

[armlx]

Khelvaster: To swap roles for a minute here, I'm going to defend BM. BM merely said he is more likely to slip up and make a dumb scum mistake, not break under pressure. The first and second are very different, which I can attest to as I haven't really done the second since my first couple games but some how manage to do the first way too often.

I have a feeling if anyone is going to crack under pressure-it be him.

Ok, crack, not break. That's a sematic difference. Your defence fails.

"Slip up" vs "crack" and/or "break". Your post fails.

[armlx]

oEJo just proved himself more than qualified to over take even BM when I was arguing against him. He was #3 before, and this looks good enough.

Unvote, Vote oEJo

[armlx]

Actually, I seem to remember being in a game that went over 100 pages. Thank god I died before then.

BM just keeps acting more and more dumb. At this point I can't even say its scummy b/c the play is so awkward.

[armlx]

who can be that evil day 1? His 3 posts I found scummy...I also find Tlp's last post and vote scummy...it is all about finding scum..have you looked for any yet?

Quoted for Truthery. Vote stands on oEJo tho.

[armlx]

God, just looked. 160 pages and 4 dead people. Nice game.

[armlx]

On top of that, the more you vote hop the more you might accidentally cause a wagonto spin out of control into a lynch. Thats the real issue here.

[armlx]

He did, the answer was no.

This is getting awkward....

[armlx]

Lol at practically at the gallows. Don't think TLP has broken 10 votes with 14 to lynch.

But besides that I agree with everything Nemesis has said.

It's really awkward how everyone voting TLP besides Ross is someone who has been called out for being scummy today.

[armlx]

I can dig this train of thought.

Unvote, Vote: Matt_S

Also noticing a connection to Lloyd, albeit a weaker one. If Matt_S comes out scum, I know who I'm voting for tomorrow though.

[armlx]

Sounds like Matt is trying to bluff us into not pursuing it further. Not buying it.

[armlx]

BM pretty much said everything relevant about the Matt S case, but something else of note was that all the people voting TLP were fairly scummy to start with.

[armlx]

TheSweatpantsNinja, WhoMe?, Skitzer, Matt_S, Imat, RossWilliam

I overexaggerated in my last post. Imat, Matt_S, and Ninja have all been suspect, and early on I was looking at you pretty closely until the whole TSN + Nano thing.

[armlx]

And is it just me or does WhoMe? seem only to pop up when someone is said against him?

Go on then, prove it. The comment of armix's I just jumped on is the first time in this game anything has been said against me, so what you are saying here is pure BS.

never seen u so aggressive before as town... 0.o

FoS: Whome

Woot for the walking metagame library.

Matt_S is still scummier for the time being, as is oEJo, but IGMEOY x 2.

[armlx]

(the you refers to WhoMe? not BM)

[armlx]

i kinda want to HAMMAH! someone.

Are you in this game, or did I forget?

This should be fun if I'm just being stupid.

[armlx]

I thought quick lynches were done via cellos.....

[armlx]

Anyone else feel like a lot of people are just missing?

[armlx]

The only thing I see out of character for Rosso is that he hasn't posted more.

[armlx]

He's being Rosso. He has different tells than most people. BM can input more on this than I can.

[armlx]

I'm choosing just to trust those who have played with him before, and assume he's town.

You can't really assume anything with players like Rosso unless you have a very good meta read on them.

[armlx]

He's being Rosso. He has different tells than most people. BM can input more on this than I can.

yeh, upon reflection, i think we should leave Rosso for a while at least. He is nearing death in another game and once his role is revealed there, i think i will have a strong meta of him.

BM

If that game wasn't on going, I would say more, however, I will say I agree with it being a good meta read.

[armlx]

At least its now, and not 3 days and 70 pages in.

[armlx]

Everyone is, we just live with it.

[armlx]

Everyone is, we just live with it.

I see two possible meanings in this
1. I complain too much, which I agree with.
2. We shouldn't be suspicious of him, which I disagree with.

The meaning is Rosso acts as Rosso desires, and this is an accepted fact of life.

[armlx]

why are you guys doing this 28 pages into the game?

vote Lloyd

...lack of scum hunting + jokes = scummy

fos Whome

I agree with this post, and just need to think about whether Lloyd's lack of good content outweighs the fact most of Matt_S's content has been scummy.

[armlx]

Matt_S claims he has a provable claim. Forgot about that. He can wait.

Unvote, Vote Lloyd

Pretty much voting him over WhoMe? b/c I give him more credit to play well.

[armlx]

Id say Whome is a better player than Lloyd imho. Just cant see his protown mentality for self-voting, expect perhaps that he thought Whome got away with it, so why shouldnt he.

BM

Meh, I was going just based on experience at the start of the game.

From my experience with killa, this seems about typical though. That's my thought on the situation, though to be fair the games I've played with him he is still alive so I have no clue if its scum or town actions on his part.

[armlx]

EBWODP:

Actually that game is over, and it was Killah 9, not 7. So I have no meta read on killa 7.

[armlx]

Still brooding on this one, but a quick post search of Killa shows his other games being 2x as articulate.

[armlx]

Farside. vote for Killa 7 plz.

kthxbai

Okay

Unvote: Vote Killa seven

wow this is a earie post.. sum buddies? and why did u pick me from the bandwagon.. u vote hope more than anyone else in this game bm.. smh

Wow nice OMGUS.

Assuming what BM says is true and Lloyd is just being Lloyd, my vote on him is irrel.

Unvote

Time to decide between Killa and WhoMe for the moment.

[armlx]

Things I don't like about WhoMe:
Being dumb on Pg 28.
His early attack on Nemesis.

Things I don't like about Killa:
His early misconstruing of Rosso's post
His misconstruing of BM's comment about getting him to slip up
His posts are all "I'm here, bye" more or less.

Things I don't like about Lloyd:
Attacking VanDamien too hard early

I don't understand why Matt_S has been waivering back and forth on me.

seems awkward to me.
Being dumb on pg 28]

Things I don't like about Matt S:
Playing the newbie card
FOSing instead of voting early on.
TLP wagon.
- Do like his content.

Actually, looking back, Matt_S had a good point. I said he was bluffing on his role claim, and Andycyca responds by digging at his role.

Unvote, Vote Andycyca

I'd take role digging by a more experienced player over those 4 any time.

[armlx]

Didn't you hear the miller clear me? Weren't you paying attention?

Do not like this response any more than I liked RW's post.

There's too many scummy people, god damn it.

[armlx]

...Can we please stop the randomness we've fallen back into? BM had a reason to vote lloyd, to try and catch Scum. killa fell into his trap, as did two others, but BM thought killa to be the most Scummy. So he voted killa, simple as that. Its also possible, knowing BM's other trap, that asking farside to vote killa was another trap. Perhaps he was looking at farside to see if he'd be easy to sway the vote of, perhaps marking him as someone who wants a quick lynch, somebody usually anti-town.

Thats was kind of how I took it, though BM may have had other reasons. Scum won't ask each other for votes, and even if they did, they wouldn't vote the same way when asked. Number one way to expose yourself as Scum: Vote with Scum or give your vote to the quickest Lynch.

You, my friend, are VERY perceptive.

Which goes against everything he has done so far. Good learner.

[armlx]

If only we had Adel to put that into a 30 person flow chart......

BTW, that extends my browser page to the point the quick reply button has to be scrolled to.

[armlx]

Yes! New page! Quick reply is back on the screen!

The 1 interesting thing I've noticed from that chart so far is antithesis has yet to make a vote.

[armlx]

That was exactly the response I was expecting from Antithesis.

So here's the people I see as really scummy compared to the rest:

oEJo: For starting and being on a ton of easy wagons.

Antithesis: For everything about his last post.

Andycyca: For fishing.

Time to think....

[armlx]

Sounds like Matt is trying to bluff us into not pursuing it further. Not buying it.

Agree, why shouldn't he claim?

This post, for role fishing.

[armlx]

Unvote, Vote Antithesis

You last posts only dig a deeper hole, especially where you go off and accuse dahill of strawmanning....

[armlx]

I don't want to lynch CKD day 1 as he's a good contributor, but asking for a deadline is very out of character from what I've seen of him looking around the site.

[armlx]

I don't have examples, but your play style seems a lot more calculating, and usually asking for deadlines screws that up.

[armlx]

anderson: The suspicious thing was Lloyd was screwing around on page 29, not page 2. Derailing conversation is bad news bears.

I sorta missed post 674 in reading. He needs to post real content now.

BM: Page 29 is the table of doom.

[armlx]

I love my sig

because Carlos Mencia just cracks me up

and sometimes I need the reminder.

/facepalm

[armlx]

can we please move on?

BM

Seconded.

[armlx]

Can we get back to relevant discussion please? Like who's scum? I believe the most recent subjects were Lloyd and Antithesis. I dislike Lloyd's lack of seriousness. However, I believe that Antithesis is a shy townie. Or something.

BTW, I'd support a retractable deadline.

There you go BM.

[armlx]

Specifics would be nice Kaleidoscope. Just saying these things without referencing posts only leads to hysteria.

[armlx]

Reply to BM aside, irrelevant to game:

I feel that quote is better than either of the 1st tow in your sig.

[armlx]

Thank you, let me explain.

Your first point is sorely mistaken. I explained my reasoning: I believe the miller claim is very convenient for scum to hide behind early on. Please reread my posts. All I really wanted was for people to stop acting like BM was auto confirmed like they were.

Second: I focused on 1 lurker, TSN, and that was early on before anything discussion worthy beyond BM's claim had really occurred. Once more viable targets started popping up, you can actually see the lurkers moving down my scum list. I disagree with you that pressuring lurkers is bad. Lynching them b/c they are lurking is bad, lynching them b/c they show up and spout off dumb logic and bad excuses isn't.

As for scum going off topic, thats crap logic. Specific players tend to go off topic more than others, not specific roles. Hell, if anything, scum would be less likely to discuss good theory IMO as it helps the town.

Wagon Hopping: Look at my "Hops".

BM: Explained.

Matt_S: Solid early attack to get things moving.

TSN: Pressure a lurker into posting, which he did and responded in a poor manner. He's been good since then however.

BM: Explained.

Incognito: Built a case. See my posts before the vote.

oEJo: Chills back, doesn't say much, then decides to start a random wagon, then wagon hops? Vote worthy to me.

Matt_S: This was a valid wagon, for the reason you are accusing me ironically (wagon hopping). Care to disagree. He defended himself fairly well and didn't react poorly, so my vote fell off.

Lloyd: Will admit, this vote was dumb. I gave Lloyd a lot more credit for typically being a serious player than he deserved and because of this felt his actions were scummier than they were.

Andycyca: See that post.

Antithesis: After his response to the issue I brought up about him not voting, I'm very happy with my vote here right now.

[armlx]

?

Its fairly obvious. You said you didn't want to vote anyone because no one was scummy, which is complete BS and obviously you covering yourself for trying not to get involved in a potentially attention getting wagon.

Didn't feel like it needed explaining.

[armlx]

Why am I waiting? Because I have no way of reading people who change their votes 3 times a week without botehring to attempt to justify it. My scumdar consists of gut feeling, and evaluating arguments.

I may get around to making a case on someone when I feel pretty certain they are scum

I am waiting for someone to make a rational, well thought case against someone

else

I said I can't make sense out of all the previous wagon hopping.

Basically all saying you find no one scummy. Or you just don't want to commit and get involved in voting. You made 1 attack on a player over the cour

se of the game until I noticed you hadn't voted (Matt S early on)

Lets go back over some more things, why don't we.

To date, nearly every case made for or against anyone has been either weak, or out right fallacious.

Yet, surely some of the accussed must be scum. The sheer numbers involved would indicate as much.

Nice statement. We don't have arguments against these people, but some must be scum.

What bothers me is the Cult.

Lets assume that they aren't dead, that there is a recruiter and a cult leader, as some Cults have.

Way to bring up the cult and try to extract hysterics from people once you draw some fire.

Understand that, even if you are a Townie miller now, I think claiming early makes you a damn near perfect target for recruitment later on.

Try to draw BM in with personal references to him being in danger.

Basically, what you are saying here is because I don't throw votes around at random, like a fool, I must be scum.

You completely try to misinterpret the argument against you here. Its not that you aren't randomly voting, its that you are showing no tendencies at all. Basically lurking in plain sight, not taking any action that would draw attention your way.

[armlx]

OK.

Got a feeling about Khevlaster, need to go back and see officially more.

I've got CKD at about above average odds of being scum, his behavior seems forced and aggressive this game.

oEJo at high odds of being scum. Starting the TNE wagon, attacking Charity who was obviously making a newbie mistake, then going OMG my wagon is moving too fast, and just lurking the rest of the time.

TNE at above average odds of being scum, especially if oEJo is scum as that would be a failed bus attempt IMHO.

WhoMe? at about where CKD stands. He pops in and out at weird times, though he is voting enough to not just be holding back. Least suspicious of him out of my scummy people.

Just to note, BM I'm treating as town for the first few days despite my suspicions. The amount of info gained from him being in the game either way is too great to throw for now.

IGMEO Incognito, Andycyca, and Killa, but for today I'm not putting them in the scum bucket just yet.

In retrospect I should have voted for oEJo when I attacked Andy, but in fairness oEJo had sorta faded back into the woodwork by that point and I had forgotten about all the dumb things he did.

Current Suspicion List:

Top Tier (should die):
Antithesis
oEJo

Mid tier (should be pressed a bit more):
TNE
CKD

Low Tier (watch it)
WhoMe?
Khev (for now)
Incog
Andycyca
killa

[armlx]

Again, quote where I said no one was scum.

You don't have to say no one was

scummy

to imply it. The only excuse for implying that is laziness or not wanting to be found, and your posts are advanced enough I'm leaning B.

[armlx]

I felt he handled himself well enough in response to this last round of attacks that he isn't on my top scum list.

As for scummy vs scum, you seem to act like you only vote people you are sure are scum, not those who are scummy. Not the case. You attack people you think are scummy to garner responses to get reads to determine who is scum, then lynch them.

[armlx]

Record long game here is over a year. No need to fear.

[armlx]

K7 may be fairly useless, but that's sort of how he rolls. I don't see how that's any worse than, say, rosso carne. Or tlp. Who should be lynched. I'm just saying.

I've come to agree with this logic, hence the reason Killa isn't higher on my scummy list.

[armlx]

If someone does not post after 4 weeks, has no post restriction, AND Refuses to be replaced, then I am going to assume that he / she is scum.

You are generous with the time you give Lloyd. I give them 2, 3 wks max before I attack and even less if they posted something implying they were going to be non-interactive.

[armlx]

Does WhoMe's last post seem contradictory? Lloyd's mason miller comment seems like an obvious joke, like the self voting joke WhoMe clearly got earlier.

BTW, when doing a post search of Lloyd, be prepared for massive page width.

[armlx]

The issue with the killa wagon is I'm fairly sure this is just how he always plays.

[armlx]

I've only really seen D1's so I can't say.

[armlx]

I think a meta of killa and a meta of rosso would reveal the same thing, that they both have irrational play styles.

unvote

Good posting.

[armlx]

So while we could do worse than lynch useless, unreadable players (who are unreadable because they're useless), I feel like we can do better.

Good posting.

[armlx]

Those 2 comments have always been my thoughts one dealing with Rosso/BabyJ/etc. style people. They are a default lynch if everyone is equally scummy, but that rearely happens and you only lynch them when they give off an obvious read.

[armlx]

Those 2 comments have always been my thoughts one dealing with Rosso/BabyJ/etc. style people. They are a default lynch if everyone is equally scummy, but that rearely happens and you only lynch them when they give off an obvious read.

im so not like bj.

I guess you are correct in that no one can compare to him. Your humility is astounding.

[armlx]

Imat: If they always look scummy, they will always be the lynch target, therefore a lynch on them will be essentially random at least until they screw up at some point or w/e.

[armlx]

Imat: People who play like that won't change because they keep getting lynched. Games will merely be lost until they decide to change themselves.

BM: Actually it is fine to lynch the standardly scummy person over other people for that reason in the case no one else is scummy. So, basically, never. Once maybe every infinity games will it be correct.

[armlx]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"][quote="killa seven"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]ugh, let's lynch killa then

Unvote Vote: Killah Seven

[/quote]
wtf does no one explain votes now.[/quote]We have a deadline. I don't need reasons.[/quote]

/facepalm.

Reasons are needed, just less of them.

[armlx]

I love how nobody is considering that the Vigilante should target these consistantly scummy players. Don't lynch them; vig them. I was hoping I would need to suggest this, since it screams leading the vig, but seriously. Where has all the common sense gone?

I see no difference between the 2. The vig will kill if he finds someone scummy enough to kill them.

[armlx]

I concur with dahill here. Him claiming earlier also has the benefit of us having a couple extra days to discuss other people aka better other lynch.

[armlx]

Did you kill last night.

[armlx]

I say Antithesis is our best option for reasons I have already stated. If people don't follow me there, I'm willing to vote TNE just so we get a lynch on someone decently scummy who isn't being replaced right now (oEJo)

[armlx]

Khev

1) Don't say "In one of my games" as it involves discussing hidden information in ongoing games.

2) If you are, don't claim, just gun down Killa tonight. That goes for any vig. That way you don't have to claim and the same thing is done (scum dies in a fire).

[armlx]

killa seven,
if you are truly a vig, then vig yourself.

This post is very hateful. I'm sure killa being a living vig is better than him being a dead one, if slightly more effort.

[armlx]

I would say dont direct the vig Lloyd, but given what you are asking....

[armlx]

I feel the same way about oEJo, but its generally accepted to let the replacement come in and at least say "Woah slow the hell down guys" as a player not playing can't defend themselves in any way.

[armlx]

VanDamien: 30 person game. Probably have a vig. Vig will kill Killa if he is lying.

Simple solutions to easy problems.

[armlx]

I'd bet 1 extra random kill vs having a live vig.

[armlx]

Not Vig.

Once all the not-vig's are in, time to down killa.

[armlx]

No one else should vote killa, starting now. He's dead to deadline lynch anyways, no need to let someone end the day early by putting him too close.

[armlx]

We still have a week to talk people, no need to lynch right now.

[armlx]

We still have a week to talk people, no need to lynch right now.

Translation: "Hey, maybe if you guys ignore my scumbuddy you'll convince people to lynch a hapless town role instead", right?

No, translation "Killa is dead today regardless, why not work out who else could be scum for tomorrow before someone who could have input dies"......

Also, I highly doubt Killa has "scum buddies". If you had been reading, discussion has made it pretty evident he's the SK.

[armlx]

BM: I don't see anything wrong with directing the vig when they, you know, have claimed. It's like a second lynch, to paraphrase Pie, only this time the logic is correct.

[armlx]

i agree with Matt_S here. He was scum with me in CotI and his play in both games seems drastically different. I have a feeling scum Lloyd tries to act like he's giving input, but not leading the town, where as I see none of that from Lloyd here. Just lots of random.

[armlx]

I think Lloyd has a point here.

From now on, whenever we quote Battle Mage, we should do it in that fashion.

[armlx]

You also got counter claimed Killa. You first.

Also, please don't directly quote what it says. Since I have come back there have been 2 mod kills for that in games I have been in.

[armlx]

You also got counter claimed Killa. You first.

Also, please don't directly quote what it says. Since I have come back there have been 2 mod kills for that in games I have been in.

Do you believe Killa? I asked him first about giving flavor text and I don't see him able to do it. Also shotgut versus throat slash. Yeah who do you believe as a vig?

?

What in my post makes you think I believe killa? I said he should claim flavor first as he got counter claimed.

[armlx]

You also got counter claimed Killa. You first.

Also, please don't directly quote what it says. Since I have come back there have been 2 mod kills for that in games I have been in.

Do you believe Killa? I asked him first about giving flavor text and I don't see him able to do it. Also shotgut versus throat slash. Yeah who do you believe as a vig?

?

What in my post makes you think I believe killa? I said he should claim flavor first as he got counter claimed.

Sorry then I thought you wanted me to claim first.
I swear it was just a misunderstanding on my part.

I can see where you thought that. The word got in that sentence is easily missed.

[armlx]

Here now and wondering about all this killa business everyone's talking about. Apparently he claimed vig and nobody believed him or someone else also claimed vig?

Can someone clear this up for me?

Killa claimed vig with a suspect kill MO (throat slitting). Farside22 then claimed vig, pretty much proving killa is not town and most likely a Serial Killer.

[armlx]

Thanks armlx! Now it's starting to make sense. And from the way everyone's talking after reading back a few pages, it seems 50-50 on how likely there is a serial killer. Which I guess is what everyone's arguing about. Right?

Incorrect. As dahill said, slit throat is very SK esque, as is a vig claim. If killa turns out mafia instead, those who suspected he was mafia instead of SK will be extremely suspect as that thought is very odd given the evidence.

[armlx]

So here's what I'm seeing.

BM is tunnel visioned on someone he told me earlier I was giving too much respect to.

TS is ignorant of the current game state because she replaced.

CKD is the voice of reason.

I'll repeat the points I said before.

My read on scum Lloyd is he is much more productive than town Lloyd. This is from one game, so it may be off, however I believe it is accurate. Current Lloyd in this game is fairly non-productive aka probably not scum. I will look into this further later.

NO ONE, I repeat, NO ONE should hammer KS.

Finally, a question.

Mod: What time zone is the 9pm deadline for?

That is all.

All deadlines are set to GMT.

[armlx]

BM: CKD was playing the role until I showed up.

Also, the deadline question was simply so we knew when to sorta put out final comments for the day. I'd hate to have a discussion abruptly stopped by a time zone issue and find one of the participants dead the next day.

I'm going to throw together the whole case vs oEJo, as he is the 2nd/3rd scummiest person here (Antithesis is my other, though I may be tunnel visioning him).

[armlx]

PBPA of oEJo:

Post 0: Attacks newbie for saying "I'm new, I'll probably be stupid". Nothing invalid here.

Post 1: Bunch of cult stuff, all reasonable. The kicker is

I believe Battle Mage mostly. Not due to meta or anything, I just do. He could be more of a threat though, later on in the game if he's alive.

Mildly odd, just believe him because.

Post 2 & 3: Starts lurker wagon on TNE under the logic he is not hunting scum, therefore he is not town.

Next several posts are all good logic about not true random voting, defending BM, etc.

Post 13: Votes Charity, an obviously pretty bad wagon IMO. Pretty clear its just a newbie mistake to me, not a scummy one.

Post 14: Hops to killa. Sure, w/e.

17: Hops to Imat after the killa wagon grows to fast.

19: Votes Lloyd for being dumb.

In retrospect, oEJo is not that scummy. His votes are logical, the main issue was his lurking which was solved via replacement.

[armlx]

I get the odd feeling KS isn't getting lynched today and that someone's trying to distract us from it. Why aren't we trying to convince people to hammer him, again?

K. Peers scum keeps wanting us to shut up so he can kill us.

[armlx]

Scum typically is more commonly used to refer to Mafia. You are correct.

[armlx]

We are still looking for a replacement. Deadline is still in 3 days.

Request Deadline Postponement till a Replacement is found.

BM

2nd.

[armlx]

Also, BM, I'd also put Peers on that possible claim or vigged list.

[armlx]

no. lol

Agree.

BM: I was semi-expecting what you said given Peer's avatar. In that case, Peers is no more on the claim vs vigged list than Rosso (aka not at all).

[armlx]

His avatar says Hammer time.....

Much like Rosso's is a penguin with a HAMMAH!

[armlx]

Kill counts regardless UROE. Question is mildly interesting, but w/e on it for now.

[armlx]

BM: I typically don't assume things about people by their avatars, but his is pretty obvious.

The kill thing sounded to me like he wondered if he could magically stop farside's kill by killing him. I said w/e as its pretty minor for now and he's new and might be asking a legit question (which it appears he was). Might come back to it tomorrow depending on his future actions.

[armlx]

So in other words... If BM thinks I need to claim or be vigged, I'll tell 'em to go sit on it and rotate, regardless of if I'm scum or not. And he won't know if I am or not. Because, really, if I claim town... what does that do? Nothing. You get to start debating on if I'm town telling the truth or scum fakeclaiming, or even a power role trying to fly under the radar. What does claiming do for me? Nothing -- if you think I'm scum, you'll still think I'm scum. What does claiming do for the town? Just causes more confusion. I'm either scum or town, and if my claim changes your mind, you're playin' in a weird way.

/facepalm

It was decided you fall in the Rosso pile of "Always acts scummy, will be dumb enough to out self if scum". Not in the "legit scummy, claim or vig" pile.

Thats a pretty big WIFOM on the "scum claim same as town" thing, especially given the prospect of confirmable roles.

Just a note: I would like to say my current stance on Nemesis is a null tell. His popping in and out is odd, but his input is good.

On Nemesis: There is no reason to get suspicious of BM just yet. It is understood he must die at some point, but the later it is probably the better.

[armlx]

I am laughing at how Lloyd argues with a deadline extension that increases his chance of living, though I believe it increases his town odds.

[armlx]

Kscope does that all the time. However, other examples of that would be valid choices for future pressuring.

BM: You are right about the Lloyd giving up thing. Giving up when lynch is pretty inevitable is the semi-town tell, giving up before you are going to definitely killed is the scum tell.

[armlx]

On top of that, debated who vig should kill. TLP was top target, xtomx replaced, claimed townie under threat of vigging. Lloyd is next option.

[armlx]

More like 3rd or 4thing behind BM and some other ppl. Maybe farside, idk.

[armlx]

How sure are we that killa is scum?

Farside if you're vig why didn't you just wait to NK him at night if you knew him to be lying?

they dont, they think im the sk, but im a vig

Too late. No take bax.

[armlx]

wait
lets do pies idea.

we all get off k7 aND tonight have him vig himself.

or its almost deadline, so kill him.

Yeah, except killa's scum, and we waste a day lynching him tomorrow when he fails to comply.

[armlx]

then pointing out nemesis' breadcrumbs. it doesn't match up with his miller claim though. and yes, he'll continue to claim miller until he's lynched in this game...

I agree with this. The day I want BM dead by changed from a generous 6 to 4 after that.

[armlx]

FOS those 2 trying to get rid of BM like that.

You apparently missed the 20 pages where I argued this point before getting other people to realize BM can NOT survive to the end of the game.

[armlx]

Is there any reason we're prolonging that last killa vote? Kinda repeating what I've already said, but seeing as nobody answered me I feel obliged.

:goodposting:

:notgoodposting:

We discuss more when its not night. Discussion leads to catching scum. Just saying....

[armlx]

I believe it has helped in reinforcing that BM must die this game, which is clutch for us to realize to not get tricked out of a win.

[armlx]

@Lloyd: So you don't believe his claim even after the discussion on day one? I already agreed with you about his claim happy moments, but I don't believe he is the play tonight. You have given many people things to think about. I believe I too am ready for the night phase. I have made a my choice and feel I found many interesting things during these few days.

Van Damien, this post alone shows the idea needs more support.

[armlx]

Rosso: what the fuck is your last post saying.

[armlx]

i think Rosso might be claiming Cult Cop. Or at least i hope he is.

Thats what I assume as well.

[armlx]

i think Rosso might be claiming Cult Cop. Or at least i hope he is.

Thats what I assume as well.

how does that make you feel?

BM

Well, if he does claim that, it doesn't change much as I really doubt double cults in a game this size, meaning you are just a sk without a kill more or less which just means you have to be killed at some point, which was already determined.

[armlx]

So I don't really like this consensus that we should kill BM. . . later. It seems like if he needs to die, the sooner the better.

there is a consensus?

Yeah, there pretty much is I believe. Letting BM free ride to the end game on an unconfirmable claim is not a good plan. I thought we got over this yesterday?

[armlx]

CKD, I agree today is not the time unless he has been investigated as cult.

[armlx]

I concur with BM. Probably different reason though.

Vote Rosso

[armlx]

actually, scratch that. Armlx probably IS seeing the same thing i am. (i had to check back to see who was in the game). lol

I forgot you were in the game as well. Hence the reason I thought it was a different reason.

[armlx]

I'm intrigued at BM's no RB logic. The odds of stopping a successful doc protect with one scum kill is n times as unlikely as stopping the mafia kill, where n is the number of players minus one.

BM, I will answer your 2nd question later. However, your argument about Rosso doing dumb stuff is semi-valid backing for a lynch, but not a primary reason to do so.

[armlx]

Happy Birthday Dahill1

i want to hear from Rosso and Nemesis.

BM

Well I don't have much to add about the night's events to be honest. It is entirely possible you give me too much credit... Or too little... I am not sure.

We were missing a scum NK. You claimed RB. I think it may be slightly useful to know who you targetted.

BM

2nd.

[armlx]

Meh, what I assumed, BM's assumption was 30% valid, 70% him jumping to conclusions. Seconded only because if Nem was an RB, he should tell who he blocked.

BM: Actually, a doc hasn't died yet, so its possible the mafia WIFOM'ed themselves out of a kill as well by attacking Farside when he was protected.

Nemesis, why did you full claim. All you had to say was BM, you are dumb, if I was RB I would have already come forward and left it at that. Or made up some argument about how coming forward as an RB could lead to a mislynch given the lack of a dead doctor.

[armlx]

I approve of all your reasons to claim, especially 4 and 7. You pass the test.

[armlx]

TSN's post is correct. Also, if you think you know, you probably do.

[armlx]

Why would he claim being a cult recruit who can still investigate. Care to give me a reason?

[armlx]

Its to Imat, you simul posted me.

I think Rosso claims to N0 have investigated, which doesn't make sense as the cult was delayed recruit, unless he is a miller or Rosso is lying (2 is more likely).

[armlx]

Even Rosso wouldn't play that bad.

I was meaning to say this and didnt for some reason.

[armlx]

Thanks for not killing me...By looks of it with SK gone we have only the vig and the scum kill...I think probably scum tried to kill Farside and got protected.

I don't like all this lynching BM stuff...Think the ones pushing it are probably scum. Will attepmt to read through and post my opinions soon.

I do not like this post at all. It is very scummy placed spec and thx for not killing me. Noted, though my current meta-read on xtoxm is he does this kind of stuff as town.

[armlx]

He investigates people and sees if they are cult (or so he claims).

[armlx]

I'm on the he's not actually a cult cop and he's running something dumb here.

[armlx]

CKD, ongoing. Thats why I tried not to say anything.

[armlx]

He has the out of saying there is a cult, the out of BM being a miller, etc.

He has done this before.

[armlx]

What night did you target BM exactly Rosso. N1 is sorta vague given the terminology issues on this site.

[armlx]

BM, I have seen games where GF is not investigation immune while killing. It was pretty common when I joined actually.

I will have to ponder the Rosso case more, but WhoMe is admittedly another good choice.

[armlx]

BM- Would take to long to find. Like I said, it was common when I joined. I don't remember details of those game from 2 years ago. I was just saying Nemesis probably has legitimately seen that variety of godfather enough to say that.

[armlx]

I'm not trying to say it would occur in this game (I doubt it would in any game now), just saying I see where Nemesis would say that from.

[armlx]

n0 i didnt have an inv.

LOLOLOL.

Good joke sir.


And BM sarnathed me as I checked the vote count.

[armlx]

I missed it too, but it was more the wall of quoted quoted quoted quoted quotes that irked me.

Seriously, just quote the line.

[armlx]

Lol at Rosso more.

Something to consider is vigging Rosso tonight and using the discussion power of a lynch instead to work over more people. Only reason I'm not 100% backing this is a scum RB or doc could screw us over a little.

(also, see sig)

[armlx]

Random comments with my limited time:

Nice of TNE to show up. Post seems moderately scummy IMO, par for the course I guess.

Rosso's posts are obv scum. "pretty sure I'm not scum". Nice one. Welcome to the world of dumb unproven statements.

Answering skitzers question is pretty clutch.

killa = 90% sure town this life. Just my general read.

Not "the other cop", "another cop". 30 people, doubt there's just one, though sanities may vary.

[armlx]

I think its just believable Rosso is incompetent in general, and his whole claim sounds like a bunch of scummy BS.

TSN makes some sense on how a whole scum group might be able to contain the stupidity. Money on Rosso being the delayed recruit from N0.

[armlx]

So we agree that RC is not town, but you are worried about other prospects.

In that case, why doesn't farside just gun him down tonight and we move along today with other people.

[armlx]

Your if A, then B; if C, then still still B logic confused me.

[armlx]

No one hammer till we discuss vig choices.

I say Whome or animorph are ok. I noticed something odd about Khev, just didn't have enough to go off to figure out exactly what it was and don't have time now to try and divine it.

[armlx]

Poison death is quite interesting if it is what I think it is.

Anyways, back to where we were.

Vote Whome

[armlx]

What exactly are you thinking of?

Well, the only group I have ever seen poison in a normal game is cult, and it would imply that after the death of the leader the lone recruit gained killing powers. I'm assuming the delayed effects of the recruit meant they just became one yesterday, so that would explain the lack of poison kill all other nights too.

[armlx]

Too lazy to find games now, but have you heard of the stereotype of the poisoned punch bowl?

[armlx]

Quite frankly, I'm going back and having trouble finding a single game with a cult, let alone one with a cult kill. I know it has been discussed before several times.