Mafia 75: Return of the Mafia! TOWN WINS (really late)

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Vote Matt_S

for strange reaction to anderson votes.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

It is constructive. If we never voted, never said anything about our suspicions, we'd have nothing to go on. For example, my vote stays on you because I dislike your play. Doesn't mean you're scum, but votes are a tool for starting discussion (especially Day 1).

In other news, the rosso carne bandwagon is a stretch, the bm wagon. . . well, in a sense, we have a guaranteed guilty investigation, but I agree, I don't really see why he would claim it so early. Of course, that can all be WIFOMed to death. I would say we could do a lot worse than lynching a claimed miller, but I'm not sold on it yet.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Unvote, vote oEJo.

Thoughts on the cult? BM's miller claim? Rosso Carne's excessive knowledge on the cult or lack thereof?

I feel like pressuring lurkers is something that needs to happen in this game. 30 people will make it very easy for people to skate through the game.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

do NOT like posts like this.

Could you be more specific?

And I like the unexpected promptness of your response, oEJo. And your answers, for that matter.

Unvote

.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

So. . . you want lurkers to post, but you vote for people who pressure lurkers? Brilliant.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Then perhaps you can better explain it to me. Seems to me that that sort of vote only encourages lurking. I didn't have to post, its not like I was facing any sort of pressure or attention.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Well, I was planning on helping, so I posted. In a game with 16 to lynch, I don't think putting oEJo at L-15 was putting him in danger of lynch. Would you say the same thing about a random vote?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Er, 14 to lynch.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Oh, I don't think I'm in any particular danger of being lynched either. I do think that, even if I am a little guilty of lurking early in the game (and I had posted every other day thus far), voting for me once I had stopped lurking is only encouraging more lurking. Voting for me when I was pressuring a lurker is only encouraging more lurking. That's why I don't like it.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Disagree. But since we don't know if there even is a vig, its fairly idle speculation.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Because he says "Yeah go press lurkers" when he is one of those lurkers and is making it look like he wasn't one.

So, in other words, because I lurked (and its not like I wasn't posting, I just didn't post very much), for the first

four days

of the game, I am forever tarred with the lurker brush? I'm standing by what I said before, that those reactions only encourage more lurking. What kind of post would you have

preferred

I enter the game with?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I appreciate him backing me up, but I'm not really leaning in a rosso or armlx scum direction.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

And then we're arguing about whether or not to do something that either did or did not already happen.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I really don't know who to vote for. It's kinda hard to decide.

Really? Seems like you have a few obvious choices, like Battle Mage (who I'm not necessarily opposed to, but not sold on), imat (who I don't really get the case on except that he decided to mention a jester, which is annoying but scummy), or nanosauromo (who I also don't particularly don't get the case on). Surely there's someone worth voting for in that. I find it suspicious that you aren't willing to commit to anyone.

Unvote, vote Charity.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I dont know anymore if I believe the BM claim or not, but lynching him today is a waste of a lynch (today anyway).

I support this position on BM. I also don't think armlx is scum. I would not be opposed to a nano lynch, but then, as has already gotten me in trouble this game, I support lynching lurkers.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'd prefer a lynch of any of the players I've voted for today (Matt_S, oEJO, currently Charity), or as I said, nano, to a BM or armlx lynch. So I said I think both of you are town. Because I do.

Ninja is hardly a total newb

Yay!

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

[quote="Imat"]It'd be A FoS, neither FoS nor Finger start with a vowel. [quote]

Ah, but it is pronounced eff-o-s, so 'an FOS' is correct.

Charity has dropped off the face of the earth since receiving some pressure, I'd say we ought to push her further.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yes, but. . . well, Day 1 has diminishing returns. The more you vote hop, the more actual important information can get lost in the noise.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Unvote, vote TLP.

You seem pretty worried about what people think of you, there.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

TSPN: Post 189 they called you a hypocrite because of vote. Means you should look for scum and not lurkers Duh!

Ah, but its much easier to find scum when people aren't lurking. Also, I find tlp more scummy than matt_s, so my vote is going to stay there for now.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Exactly. Especially when that "deadline" is given as a reason to hop on a bandwagon.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Immediately lynch you? That'd sort of kill two birds with one stone.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Or lynch lloyd. Also a good plan.

Unvote, vote lloyd.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

The difference between TSN and I is that

I

TSN is a townie bandwagoner and

he's a scummy one

I don't explain my votes.

Didn't you hear the miller clear me? Weren't you paying attention?

In all seriousness, I support lynches on:

TLP (too eager to follow orders, concerned about a "deadline")
Lloyd (self-vote? What's that about?)
Rosso Carne (anti-town)
Charity (useless)

I don't particularly like a k7 lynch, he's playing more or less like every other game I'm in with him. He could be scum in all of those, I suppose.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

but tbh, i think we should be thinking about running someone up now.

I agree.

Unvote, vote tlp.

Scummy, and certainly among the more useless players in the game.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Antithesis: change your sig.

Lloyd: I believe he was saying, "my miller claim was scummy, on the other hand, my play has been protown." Or at least that's what he meant.

This has been your semantics-and-slander post of the day. But we should still lynch TLP.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

K7 may be fairly useless, but that's sort of how he rolls. I don't see how that's any worse than, say, rosso carne. Or tlp. Who should be lynched. I'm just saying.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

[quote="armlx" The issue with the killa wagon is I'm fairly sure this is just how he always plays. [/quote]

Exactly. And while I can't confirm it personally, I'm being informed that this is how rosso carne also plays too. So while we could do worse than lynch useless, unreadable players (who are unreadable because they're useless), I feel like we can do better.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I think he was looking for some kind of motivation. I believe, armlx, it is a fruitless task.

Is lloyd's play thoroughly incomprehensible to everyone else, too?

I suppose at this point, I'd be down for a rosso or thenextepisode lynch, but I'd still prefer lynching tlp. I think people will say "he's being replaced," but I don't see why that's a reason not to lynch him.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I think reading too much into flavor is a Huge Mistake. The plan of letting the real vig kill him if he's lying is sound.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yeah, but what if he's not the SK? I'd rather not lynch the vig day 1.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

And if k7 isn't lying? But I suppose I wouldn't be opposed to a counterclaim.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Not vig. Obviously.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I agree with armlx. I certainly find farside's claim more believable than k7's.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Is it possible they are both telling the truth?

It is possible. Is it likely? I'd say not.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

TLP would be an excellent choice for vig kill, imo.

And TS: K7 is going to get lynched today. But there's no rush.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I still think tlp/xtoxm is best choice, although I feel bad for xtoxm. Then again,

this is why I didn't want him to be replaced

, because now the fact that I feel bad for his replacement is influencing my scumhunting.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

For what its worth, my experience with lloydscum does not line up with this. I still think xtoxm is the better play.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

So I don't really like this consensus that we should kill BM. . . later. It seems like if he needs to die, the sooner the better.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

How does that make sense? He claimed miller. Investigating as cult doesn't make him any more lynchable. In fact, I'd argue that if he investigates as cult, that makes his claim more believable, since it would identify him as, if scum, a member of a faction that was possibly wiped out yesterday.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

If BM is a miller, then RC's claim corroborates his story.

If BM is a cultie, then RC's claim proves this.

This is the problem with miller claims. But the fact that a claimed miller was found guilty by investigation should make him no more or less liable to be lynched. And the fact that he was found guilty as a member of a scum faction whose

delayed

recruiter was killed yesterday speaks toward his townness.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

What, you disagree?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Er, what? I'm arguing to not lynch you.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

As I understand it, RC claimed cult cop, and investigated BM, while getting a guilty. But if BM is the miller, then of course RC would get a guilty. So that guilty investigation (if true) actually makes BM more pro-town, because whatever interpretation of "delayed cult recruiter" you prefer, it still means BM is unlikely to be cult, and more likely, therefore, to be a miller.

But BM and armlx both have reason to think that RC is lying, which they aren't revealing at this time (I think I know what you guys are talking about), which means that we should lynch RC but actually does not clear BM, meaning we should still consider lynching BM later. Phew.

Is that about the shape of things?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I agree with BM, but not with Matt_S. Nemesis sounds frustrated to me, not overly knowledgeable. I also don't really think RC's claim makes a lot of sense, but I don't see the benefit of that claim as scum, either.

Vote: whome.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

umm why are you voting for Whome, when we have confirmed scum already? 0.o

A bit over-eager? lol

BM

We have confirmed scum? I don't see RC as confirmed scum. What play does the scum have claiming cult on a claimed miller? We're not going to lynch based on that, so why, as scum, is he more likely to do something that doesn't make sense than as town?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I am hesitant to believe RC would be lying because I don't see the benefit as scum of doing so, except for possibly the WIFOM benefits of having done something scum have no reason to do. I'm not clearing him for it, but I have no good reason to do so (and I don't view the meta as good enough, I can think of at least one likely and other less likely scenarios in which he's still telling the truth.)

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

i can actually see a case for him as town, on the grounds that his claim in THAT GAME was inspired by the role he recieved at a similar time, in this game.

That was what I was thinking. Let's wagon whome now.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

This wagon makes no sense.

What possible benefit does RC have of fakeclaiming guilty on the miller at this time? He's not telling us anything we don't know, unless he honestly thought BM's millerhood would not affect his investigation. In which case, if he's lying, we'd know as soon as we lynched BM!

The

only

scenario in which RC is scum is if he is

pretending

to think that a cult cop would come up innocent on a non-cult miller, and then fakeclaiming. And if he's thought ahead that far, he would know that the rest of us would go 'wtf, BM claimed miller,' and not lynch BM anyway. So what does he possibly have to gain as scum by making that claim?

Seriously.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Well, it looks like I'm outvoted on RC. I wouldn't mind seeing whome or xtoxm vigged in the slightest.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Man, look at dahill strettttch to get on that wagon. Again, what reason does scum have to say "i investigated on alphabetical order" and lie about it?!! Farside, what would a "logical choice" for a night 0 investigation be? Come on.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Why is incompetency a scumtell? Anyway:

vote rosso carne seems a little strange how he would forget his n0 investigation, then say it was alphabetical order even though there were two people before armlx

While I think rc's wagon is a bad one, there are better reasons to vote for him than that. So dahill's vote seems like lazy wagoning. I'm just pointing it out now.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

sweatpantsninja, answer this before accusing me of anything

I've been arguing against the rc wagon since page 58. Read the thread before you tell me who I can, and cannot, accuse. That goes to everyone who all of the sudden was like, "tell us why you aren't voting for rc."

We have confirmed scum? I don't see RC as confirmed scum. What play does the scum have claiming cult on a claimed miller? We're not going to lynch based on that, so why, as scum, is he more likely to do something that doesn't make sense than as town?

To elaborate: The argument as RC being scum rests on him making up his claim. But why would he, as scum, make up that claim? Especially claiming BM as guilty? Presumably, if he is scum, and he was lying, he would have planned that claim, since he came out of the gates Day 2 with it. In which case, one of his buddies might have mentioned "BM is miller, claim guilty on someone else." So either we have a scumgroup full of people who thought a hypothetical cult cop would get an actual guilty on a claimed cult miller, and thought that was a great plan, or rosso just decided to do it all on his own, or rosso is telling the truth. There's no benefit for the scum in making that claim. It really only confirms that bm is town. In fact, it would be a pretty smart claim, if rc and bm are scum together. But either rc is pretending to not get that, and bm is bussing him really hard (and why, because if he comes up scum, bm isn't confirmed any more), or rc is telling the truth.

Basically, all of the scenarios that involve rc being scum assume complete incompetence on the part of an entire scumgroup or rc pretending to be incompetent/inattentive just so he can sucker me, apparently.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Because his name starts with an R? Because he has hammah in his sig? Or maybe it could be, as you, me, and everyone else knows, that his claim, and of bm being guilty is why people are voting for him. C'mon.

Yes, because his play makes sense as inattentive town (didn't notice bm claimed miller, or legitimately thought he would come up guilty as cult), but not as inattentive scum (why make that claim with no provocation, no pressure, and no benefit). Or at least, you have to assume truly staggering levels of incompetence as scum. The simplest explanation is that he just wasn't paying much attention.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Money on Rosso being the delayed recruit from N0.

That could be, I suppose. And I, too, don't entirely understand TS' logic.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Well, shit, bm, I'm sorry I haven't convinced you personally. There are 25 players in this game, you hardly need my vote, and I'm not convinced by anything

you've

said.

Tell me

why

rosso, as scum, would make that claim, and I'll listen.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Actually no. At first he didnt make it clear that he would get a guilty on a Miller. If it was a gambit for me and Rosso as scumbuddies, you'd think he might have mentioned that little nugget of information with his claim, no? :p

Hey, you're right. Which is why the only scenario I could come up with that has rc as mafia doesn't make sense, because neither of you are playing it like he should if you're both scum.

As for claimed cult miller, that wasn't very clear. I meant, for rosso's claim to be accurate, you would be both cult and miller, because if the recruitment was delayed, you still would have been a miller.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

You want me to not get lippy with you. Really.

I'm sorry, you're going to have to tell me where my reasonings gone wrong. All I see your argument shaking down to is that he lied before. How about he was lying in that game and was inspired by the role he received in this one?

Is it the fact that it was a cult cop, which is an unusual role, I'll admit, but not at all inconceivable in a game where there's a cult. If I had fakeclaimed cop in the past, would you say the next time I claimed cop that I must be lying?

I'm sure asking rc why he claimed cult cop as scum is going to be highly effective.

Right, so his investigation of you took place N1. Assuming that the delayed cult recruitment didn't take effect until N1 (and what else could delayed mean, unless we don't have a cult at all), you wouldn't have been cult until then, after you already claimed miller.

As for what CKD said (stop posting while I write, dammit), it could have been a brilliant gambit, but its been executed anything but brilliantly, and I'd think anyone smart enough to think of such a thing would be smart enough to execute it better, no?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yes. My conclusions are just the opposite of yours, though:

If RC is town, BM is almost definitely town.

If RC is scum, BM is still potentially scum (though no more likely than he was before this whole claim business), and in spite of thinking he's wrong on this one, I don't think he's scum.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

OK. We have a delayed cult recruiter.

That could mean one of two things: Either they didn't get to recruit N0, in which case we don't have a cult (yay!), or that the recruitment is delayed until N1.

So N0 the cultist (too lazy to go to page 1) recruits you. You wouldn't know about it yet. But you claim miller day 1, prior to you knowing you were recruited if you were recruited.

And if you were scum, it wouldn't have gone through anyway.

Conclusion: If you are now cult, you must be both cult and miller.

And the odds of you being rosso's investigation and happening to be the delayed recruit are pretty damn tiny.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Or that he honestly thought miller would be guilty as cult. Which is what he said. Or if he was actually paying attention, he would realize that his claim almost definitely confirms BM as town. But again, I ask you: if he's scum, why claim that? BM's response is a "shrug, who cares," who can do better?

I'm leaning more toward a "CKD might be scum independent of BM/RC being scum."

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

OK, I have school and stuff to do now. I'm done, and I pity everyone who wasn't around who now has to read all the back-and-forth.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Alright. I think RC is town, and I think approximately 13 of you are wrong. But I'm outvoted, so moving on.

Who's our vig choice?

I like whome, dahill, matt_s, or animorph, although, to be fair, if i'm wrong about rc, those choices no longer look so good.

If rc were to come up scum, I'd say ckd would be a reasonable choice.

Thoughts?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Whome would be my first wagon choice, anyway. Xtoxm. . . had the tough break of replacing a scummy-to-VIish player, but hasn't really done anything to push me either way since.

Matt_S tripped my scumdar a little bit yesterday, and just now, I find the "rosso claimed just to get bm lynched" curious. You know that, matt? For a fact? How do you know? Also, you read the last couple pages again and tell me "I'm giving this wagon my consent." Nothing would make me happier than for people like you to unvote.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

And yes, we should be trying to direct the vig, unless you also think we shouldn't try to direct the lynch. Having a claimed vig is essentially two lynches for the town.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

You're right, I should have made the more clear. Silly of me.

How do you know rosso carne (

who you believe to be a liar, as evidenced by your vote on him

), claimed for the purpose of lynching battle mage? Do you truly believe that he, and no one else in his hypothetical scumgroup, would have thought, "hmm, maybe the town won't lynch the claimed miller if we make up a guilty result?" And if you do believe that, do you really think that a one-for-one trade for scum even makes sense? Why not just nk him if you want to be rid of him and you're scum?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

There was supposed to be a sentence that read,

Unvote, vote matt_s

at the bottom of that instead of a bunch of empty space.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'll concede its possible that he's the cult recruit, but that I also have no reason to believe that he's any more likely to the cult recruit we may not even have than anyone else.

As for the WIFOM defense (the fallback of poor arguments), think about what that really means.

Rosso Carne would have to have decided, as scum, to do something that was abysmally stupid as scum, knowing he'd been caught in this particular lie in the past, hoping that people would recognize the pro-town benefits of his claim while also concluding that a miller would come up guilty while not being, all the while pretending that he honestly thought a miller would come up guilty. To sum up, in order for that claim to work, the town would have to simultaneously believe his claim while also not doing anything about it.

That's a pretty complicated plan, even less likely than the current one of "he's a stupid liar."

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

And BM: Yeah, maybe. But some people on this wagon are playing like they don't get what I'm saying (or I'm wrong, which is

obviously

unlikely), and matt's latest comments have struck me as disingenuous.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

And why are abysmally stupid (or more probably, inattentive) players more likely to be scum?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

First: Toldja so! Nyahhhhh!

Second, the leading bandwagon today, again, doesn't really make sense. Consider the precise scenario that would have had to play out in order for BM to be cult (and we know he's not mafia).

N0: Delayed cult recruiter recruits BM.
D1: BM claims miller, is telling the truth, has to be telling the truth.
N1: BM is recruited. RC investigates BM.

So RC would have been lucky enough to investigate the one player who happened to be cult. Cult would have had to have been lucky enough to recruit the miller N0. Or, the far simpler explanation, BM was a miller that investigated guilty when a cop investigated him. The only real point against him is that he claims hider after he would have been culted.

Anyway, third:

And since I fear a chain of OMGUS if I vote TheSweatpantsNinja now

I will fear no OMGUS. I have no problem beginning where I left off yesterday. Matt sounded fake when he voted for rc yesterday, and he sounds fake when he magnanimously didn't vote me, or k7, today.

Vote Matt S.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Vote: TheSweatpantsNinja

So, cases are great. I also really want to hear matt_s' explanation as to why I'm scum.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I guess. But I'm most definitely eager for matt to tell me why I'm scum after RC came up town, after telling me I was scum while he still "thought" RC was scum.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

1. You said that you thought Rosso was town, but you gave up on defending Rosso, instead looking for a vig target. Implicit consent and distancing at the same time.
2. Your defense for Rosso not being scum is that he wasn't insanely stupid. Yet Rosso did something insanely stupid. You didn't respond to this point yesterday.
3. You argued that Rosso didn't necessarily want to get BM lynched. Which makes no sense.

First off, none of that is any kind of argument as to why I'm scum, except for maybe number 1. Maybe. But I'll respond anyway:

1. Show me the part where I "gave up." Sure looks to me like I argued the whole way, while also discussing the vig target, because that was also important. I didn't "consent" to that wagon, whatever that means.

2. You misread my argument. Go back and read it again. My point was that in order for him to be scum, he'd have had to been insanely stupid. I wouldn't have defined rosso's claim as insanely stupid. It was inattentive and involved a misunderstanding of how the miller role functioned in the game. But even if you do, insanely stupid things aren't the province of scum alone.

3. I argued that you were assuming quite a bit about the motivations of someone you nominally thought to be lying. I agree, RC, as pro-town, was trying to get BM lynched. But to assume, as you supposed, that RC was scum (and lying), just to get BM lynched, that seems a stretch. It doesn't even make sense for scum to do that.

What that makes me think is that you knew RC wasn't lying and was honestly trying to get BM lynched. Because you knew he wasn't scum.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Matts case is actually quite compelling. Not that i feel TSPN is the play atm by any means, but its hard to deny the points Matt has made do go further than the mere 'too townie' fallacy.

Are you kidding me? He hasn't even

made

a case. He's still telling us why RC was scum! What I see are people still so convinced they were right yesterday, that they suspect me for having a better read on rc than they did.

3. Rosso. Insanely stupid. Need I say more?

And you knew the precise motivations of someone "insanely stupid," did you?

PS: You're still misreading my argument. Try again.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

You don't really seem to get it. Your argument that you had a better read on him is crap. You could have just guessed that he was town, or you're scum who knew he was town. I'm going with door number 2.

Wow. If you're town, get over yourself. You may not know whether I had some extra information, but at least concede that I did have a better read.

Anyway, my argument,

again

: In order for RC to be scum, he'd have had to do something that made no sense to do as scum. In order for RC to be town, he'd have had to merely made one wrong assumption: that a miller would come up innocent to a cult cop. Was that assumption wrong? Yes. (well, almost definitely). Was it insanely stupid? I'd say not.

But even if you say that it was insanely stupid for a cop to

claim a guilty result

in that scenario, what makes insanely stupid people more likely to be scum? That's what I repeated over and over yesterday, and got dismissed by, "we have a meta on him," or my favorite, "you say he must be stupid to be scum, well, he is stupid, so he must be scum." Because if A must be true for B to be, then obviously if A is true, so must B. Clearly.

Anyway, if you follow matt's ideas, you may as well lynch anyone who opposes someone else's lynch. So hop on those bandwagons, townies and scum! They'll never suspect you, even if you lynch a claimed cop!

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'm getting sick of this constant back and forth without you actually answering, so I'll give you one post to actually answer my 1st point before I switch my vote.

Your first point is incorrect. I didn't give up. And even if I had, it was pretty clear that RC was going to get lynched, so, what if I had? And even if that wasn't the case, why would that make me scum?

You haven't even been listening, have you? The only thing that could be used to defend Rosso was your little argument of "scum would have to be stupid".

Only your reasons were crap.

Well, the empirical evidence is sort of on my side on this one. And an argument of "scum have no reason to behave this way" is actually sort of more than little.

Peers: I know, right? Does anyone else find it interesting that he's not quite willing to vote for me even though he so obviously "thinks I'm scum?"

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

That quote was by me, not Matt himself.
Furthermore, your point might be right. On the other hand, it could just be that you DIDN'T have that read on RC, and just knew he was town.

Oops. The guy's been on my mind. Anyway, of course its possible that I was scum with some extra information. But matt's telling me that even if I am town, I just got lucky, and as I am town, and don't feel like I got lucky at all, I'm slightly annoyed by that.

And, y'know, he's scum. There's that.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

When you say you think someone is town, but you're moving on, is there any interpretation other than "I'm not going to stop this wagon"?

Well, vig and lynch candidates were both important things to be discussed, so by "moving on," I meant "I am going to stop beating the dead horse of RC-town, because you all know my position, and you disagree." You might notice that I still continued to argue why RC was town for the rest of the day. Also, I was occupying a slightly ambiguous stance because, unlike some, I didn't know for sure whether RC was town.

And I'll say it again: You were occupying an ambiguous stance so you could always be partly right.

As scum, wouldn't I know whether or not I was right? Isn't that what you were arguing? That my arguments sucked, so I must be scum because no townie could think like I did? So, which is it? Did I know RC was town or didn't I?

Except we already showed that Rosso had no idea what he was doing. You could make the exact argument of "town have no reason to behave this way".

Indeed you might. You'd be wrong, because RC's play fit perfectly into the profile of a townie who wasn't paying attention, but you might. And even if that were true, if RC's play made no sense as town or scum, you(they, we) shouldn't have lynched someone strictly on the basis of irrational play. You might as well lynch every absent player, or every VI.

I cant deny im enjoying watching the newbie outwit the pro.

Aw, a backhanded compliment! You're too kind.

Armlx's vig test makes sense, although I'm not sure using a vig on someone we definitely know is not in one group just to test the possibility that he's in the other.*

*

Discussing the vig target should in no way be interpreted as giving up on lynch targets.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Is a good idea. Not sure using a vig on someone we definitely know is not in one group just to test the possibility that he's in the other is a good idea.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

A confirmed BM will be dead, as he can't hide consecutive days.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Also, I think there's a good chance armlx is scum. So far today, he's directed the vig to try and kill someone who we know isn't mafia (whome picks up more scum points for that too), and before that, waffled on whether or not he thought I was scum. Yesterday, he was a key driver of the RC wagon. Matt_S is still highest on my list, but I'm not like armlx much right now.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Huh. I could have sworn he said he couldn't do it every night. That takes care of that objection, I suppose.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'm not.

Lol, who did I direct the vig at? Rosso, the guy whose actions made no sense, was claiming something he did in another game as scum in the recent past, and trying to get someone lynched on broken logic, and then went back on investigation results?

I am talking about BM. And I'm talking about mafia members potentially directing the vig to someone we

know isn't mafia

. That's sort of a good deal for mafia, isn't it? A crosskill at best, a not-mafia kill at worst?

Whoever said, "he could be the cult," yes, he could be. I could be. You could be. We really don't have any reason to suspect BM over anyone else. So using a vig or lynch on someone we know is not in the most dangerous scum group is foolish.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I still don't even see how you could read "moving on"

within that post

as "giving my consent." Or "distancing." I'm not sure what I would have to gain as scum from distancing myself from the wagon by discussing vig targets. Was everyone going to forget that I had opposed the wagon because of all the vig talk?

You knew he wasn't mafia. He still could have turned up cult.

Look over every bad argument used this game, and "he could be/could have been cult" will appear. I significantly altered my behavior (well, I didn't, but you seem to think I did), just on the 1 in 25 chance that he was the one cult member? What would I have had to gain from distancing myself slightly from the wagon,

even if that was what I was doing?

Who says it was strictly because of irrational play? Rosso couldn't remember his investigations, and he claimed to be going in alphabetical order. Rosso sounded like he was making things up as he went. And he never made a remotely convincing case for him being town.

So rosso was scum too dumb to bother to consider what his claimed investigation results would be? I can't believe any even cared what the reason for his N0 choice was. I find it hard to believe that someone as dumb as you made him out to be would think to fakeclaim something like cult cop in the first place.

What is your position on vigging BM?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Out of curiousity, does anyone else feel like I was occupying an "ambiguous" stance on RC?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Because you moved past defending Rosso. It's not nearly as complicated as you think.

I think its quite a bit simpler than you think. But since you're determined make a mountain out of this molehill, let me bring back the "distancing" in question:

Alright. I think RC is town, and I think approximately 13 of you are wrong. But I'm outvoted, so moving on.

First of all, context. RC had just been put at L-1, and farside had said he looked "scummy as hell." So it was really pretty clear that he was going to get lynched.

Second, I flat-out say, "I think RC is town." Where's the hedging in that? Then I move on to discussing potential vig targets, because its not like we could discuss it after we lynched him.

If you had discussed the vig targets, would you be distancing yourself from the rc wagon you were on?

You wouldn't want to fully support the wagon in case Rosso turned up town.

I didn't at all support it, let alone fully.

I didn't care why he made his N0 choice. It's the fact that he wasn't telling the truth about it.

And what would scum have to gain from lying about it?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I never said Rosso intentionally lied about it. I saw it as Rosso getting caught on his mistake.

Ten points for whoever notices what's wrong with that statement.

It's not about the discussing vig targets, it's about the not defending Rosso.

There were twelve votes on him, and farside had indicated that she was willing to hammer. Everyone had heard my defense, and there wasn't anything new worth adding at the time. You are simply wrong, and I'm not entirely certain if you're just being foolhardy or pretending to be.

You are, however, dead right on the vig. Imat, BM is confirmed innocent for what ought to be our primary focus: finding mafia. Let the mafia try to kill the cultist, as the cultist seems to be willing and capable of killing mafia. The mafia are more dangerous, and as such, we ought to be focused on that. The value of a confirmed townie just really isn't that high. Whether or not he's the cultist, he's just as likely to be correct about who the scum is as the rest of us.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

That's what I'm wondering about.

The only defense you gave was "scum wouldn't do that." While we will continue to disagree on how strong that defense was, there certainly was more you could do if you believed Rosso was town.

Like what?

And matt, am I to understand you that you would have lynched him for

accidentally

lying about whether or not armlx is the first name in the alphabet?

This man is scum whyarewenotlynchinghim?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Hmm, maybe referencing some of Rosso's posts day 1 that fit the way an investigator would act? Or perhaps pointing out Rosso's dislike of cult discussion and using that as evidence that he was in fact a cult cop? And you could always find posts where Rosso seemed to be suspicious of BM and would lead to him being investigated.

I could have. . . but none of those things were the reasons I wasn't voting him.

The whole Rosso backing thing is pretty sketchy to say the least, and his arguments turning to semantics is awkward, as well as his last post with the lynch push.

My arguments are turning to semantics? I'm not the one acting as if the phrase "moving on" is a massive scumtell. And nice OMGUS.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yeah, except the action never happened.

And I'd define me accusing you yesterday, and you accusing me today, as OMGUS. I didn't vote for you, so it might not meet the technical definition, but close enough, I'd say.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Even though not directing the vig is the incorrect choice, I more or less agree with xtoxm's read of peers.

Anyway, I get a town read off of CKD. If RC had come up scum, he would have been my next choice, but RC didn't, so CKD looks pretty OK to me.

VanDamien is just one of many, many players who hasn't done much of anything I remember this game. I'll reread him later when I have a little more time.

I'm not really sure what to think of Kscope. If this is his style. . . I mean, its sort of useless, but whatever.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'd support UROE getting replaced, but I feel like there are too many players and too many lurkers to adequately perform lurker control in any case, and he hasn't tripped me in any way particularly that offhand I couldn't say the same about andersonw, k7 v.2, or tarhalindur.

TS, is there anyway I could get you to actually come to some conclusions? Or by presenting cases, are you naming the people you find scummy?

I think what dahill has to say about imat is interesting and possibly deserves some more attention.

I'm not sold by BM's attacks on CKD.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Anyway, I'm losing it, I tried to find where someone said that BM could hide on alternate nights, and now I can't find it anymore.

I thought that's what he said too, but evidently there was just some mass hallucination.

Kscope, wtf? Why would you vote for BM? Why would

anyone

vote for BM? As stupid as vigging BM may be, that's what farside said she would do, which will confirm his role. Lynching BM is the dumbest thing we could do.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Oof, there were a lot of posts today.

I think CKD and BM are probably both town. So, um, chill it out, maybe?

I also think TS is probably town.

Skitzer might be scum, but those tells don't go very far to convince me, when people like Matt still live.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Ugh, I hate posts like this. Couldn't they all be town if their reactions are genuine? Couldn't two of them be in different scumgroups? That's even assuming that your initial premise is right. Which isn't exactly a given.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I think its likely that TS is mafia also. If BM is cult, and TS certainly wants us to believe that he is, then its in her interest to get him lynched. . . but this post also seems to say "even if BM is a miller, I want him lynched anyway."

In other news. . .

Vote: The SweatPants Ninja

Vote TheSweatPantsNinja, people.

In the face of a well-thought out attacks like this, whatever shall I do? Seriously, would it be too much to ask for one of you to explain yourselves?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

why arent we lynching matt s, he has a guilty conscious that screams scum.

Truly, this is a mystery to me as well.

Xtoxm: Are you serious? (I honestly can't tell). There's nothing to defend myself against. They say I'm scum, I say I'm not. Ball's sort of in their court.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

BM: That alone is reason enough to wait for a replacement.

That's true enough. No point rushing, even if we had reached a consensus on a vd lynch.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Why not wait for a replacement claim? If the claim isn't compelling, we can still lynch.

Of course, this is all academic, since its not like a VD lynch is anywhere near consensus.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Peers is being lurky and is currently voting without bothering to give a case. Unfortunately, that can be applied to a lot of people, and he doesn't particularly stand out. Van Damien, while not the best lynch, is a preferable lurker-type lynch, I think.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

What is your post even saying TSN? Just jabbing fingers at all the lurkers then singling out one specifically? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but deflection much?

Sorry, I was referring to Matt's post on peers. Peers doesn't stand out to me, because there are other people (such as vd) that have also been just as lurky/useless. Even if I was supporting lynching people on those grounds, it wouldn't be peers that I chose.

If I'm "deflecting," (what is that tell even supposed to mean?) I'm interested in deflecting to matt first, ts second, and armlx third. Not to any of the lurkers, because there are too many of them to reasonably regulate.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Deflecting is the act of trying to shift attention from yourself onto easy wagons.

Right. So I didn't vote for peers, or vandamien, and have no interest in voting for either of them, nor am I encouraging others to, in fact, I'm actively discouraging it. So where's the deflection?

And I'm sorry you find my accusations senseless. I think you think they're senseless because you're one of them, but surely you can explain better than that?

But anyway, TS continues to trip my scumdar with the BM-hammering.

Unvote, vote TS.

Not only is the BM case weak, its also very much in mafia's interest to pursue it, accurate or no.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

TSN: You point out Peer's lurking and opportunistic voting, but in the same paragraph say VD is the prefered lurker lynch WITHOUT STATING REASONS. I don't see the sense in that.

Matt_S was asking for thoughts on peers. I gave my thoughts on peers, which is that he's been a lurker, but not the scummiest lurker, and I wasn't interested in pursuing lurker lynches anyway when there are better candidates. Therefore, I was uninterested in pursuing peers.

do you mean BM's case against VD or the case that BM must be tested tonight?

I meant TS' case that we should lynch BM, which makes even less sense than testing him.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

... the "non-Mafia" part is baseless and therefore scummy.

The non-mafia thing is not baseless because of the guilty cult cop investigation. Assuming that mafia cannot be recruited, which seems a safe bet, then the only two ways that a cult cop guilty makes sense is if BM is miller, or BM is cult. Now, we don't know BM is not cult, but I am vehemently opposed to vigging or lynching the only player we can be certain is not in one, and presumably the most dangerous, scumgroup.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yes, but there is still that dreadful possibility that you are cult, and as long as that possibility remains...well, your the main suspect for that.

Poison did not show up until last night. Poison, which is likely a delayed method of death, would fit well with the delayed cult. Therefore, it is a very good possibilty that the cult member is still cult, and as BM being an experienced player, it is likely that the cult recruiter may have chosen him.

Yes, we have had this discussion. But not discussing it anymore doesn't make the cult member go away. It's not that simple.

Christ. Even CKD said this was stupid, but I'm going to pile onto that.

Unvote, vote skitzer.

Would mafia so blatantly try to pile onto the cult, is what concerns me, but its worth a good bandwagon. Also, I just checked to see who skitzer replaced, only to discover he's been in the game this whole time, and I hadn't noticed. I'm not sure whose fault that is.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

TSPN-do you think we should massclaim here?

No, I don't. We've had as many town power roles killed as townies, plus two more already outed (liberally counting miller as a "power" role). . . and assuming that that ratio doesn't hold true, its going to be a vanillafest.

Or is that the rationale, that most of our power roles are already outed anyway? If so, I'd need the numbers explained to me to support it.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

That was a very different game. . . and that I supported it was unfairly smeared on me by certain types, I briefly considered it and then actually decided it was a bad idea.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

So, um, Kscope, I get that this is your style and all, but surely there must be something in 93 pages worth commenting on?

A TS lynch is preferable to a dahill lynch. What's the case on dahill, anyway?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

To all those people opposing massclaim because there are many players left alive: why does that matter?

Because there are quite a few kills for the scum left to make, is my line of thinking. I also think your assumption that we have half town powerroles is probably incorrect, which means scum will have just a few powerroles to choose from.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Whome pinged my scumdar hard yesterday, and then disappeared. He's sort of doing it again.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

BM: Farside has said she will vig you. You say that your plan will convince her prior to her submitting her nightchoice. If that's the case, then why do we still need to be talking about this? It will convince her, or it won't.

Pie: I'm not convinced by the arguments for massclaim, but I'm not inherently opposed to it, I just don't feel like I've seen a coherent argument for it yet. So be explicit.

The benefits of massclaim, as I see it:
Ability to guide powerroles in a pro-town fashion
More difficult for scum to fakeclaim powerroles believably

Downsides:
Power roles likely to be killed that much faster
Scum able to fakeclaim powerroles believably likely to be trusted

The problem is, as I see it, is that there aren't that many power roles likely to be left alive, which means the benefits of having them out in the open isn't likely to outweight the loss of having them quickly killed.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Just think it over during the night before doing anything. Even if I don't really know what BM's doing, I'm sure your patience will be rewarded.

I suggest we stop discussing the testing and start discussing who to make dead.

I support this product and/or service (is that meme worn out?)

Anyway, dahill might be scum, but I think there's a much better case for Toaster Strudel. Its time to lynch.

Unvote, vote Toaster Strudel.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yeah, farside's pretty confirmed to me.

Also, that last post by whome is almost enough to make me want to shift my vote. Not quite enough, but almost. Enough to put whome second on my list.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Posts like Whome's, and the way in which most of the pressure on her seems to be ill-contrived, and simply an attempt to get an easy, but satisfying mislynch.

I saw TS as doing the same thing when she was attacking you, though. I'll keep my vote where it is for now, but I'd be willing to switch.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I think I've used the last lines of the above post before when I was scum. It feels like TSN is trying to say, "Yes, of course dahill is my scum buddy, but let's lead the town to a mislynch and vote Toaster Strudel! Of course, I could be very wrong.

So, you aren't certain that my uncertainty about dahill is a scumtell or not?

Obviously me, dahill, and skitzer are all scum.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

What? This makes no sense. Is this somehow a joke? Because I'm not scum.

Congratulations! Neither am I. It was sarcastic, because you were using uncertainty as a scumtell, and were uncertain about it.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'll be honest, there is no chance I'm going to reread bm's posts in isolation.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I agree, and conveniently scumstrudel still lives.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Care to explain why? Because she sure looks scummy to me.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Scummy wagon push, Incog being very pro-town in retrospect, TS being as pro-town as possible for her.

I've never played with her before. If her meta is what you say it is, I'd probably go back to skitzer over dahill.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

DGB in Loser Mafia. She seemed mostly solid in that game. And I suppose she was town in that.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Dahill: Imat hasn't done much that sets me off.

Armlx: Alright, if you and BM both say she's playing to a town meta, I'll accept that. Let's lynch skitzer.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Class, k7.

Anyway, I don't think dahill is the best wagon, but he's not the worst, and this day has outlived its usefulness.

Unvote, vote dahill.

Farside vig TS?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I am 100 percent sure this day needs to end.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Wait, wait, wait. So if farside

doesn't

vig you, that will be proof that you're protown?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Ah. I think maybe I see what BM is hinting at.

If I do, BM, that's really anti-town. Don't do it. Confirm yourself the easy way.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I think what BM is saying is that he's going to hide with farside. So if farside targets BM, they'll both end up dead. But that's stupid, and still doesn't confirm him.

So, y'know, I hope that's not it.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Could be that, could be BM was lying about the hiding part and it backfired. It doesn't really matter, because its not like we're going to lynch farside.

Interesting that there wasn't another poison kill.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Vote: Toaster Strudel.

Meta or no, she just

screams

scum to me.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

He's as wrong today as he was yesterday, and the day before, and the day before. . .

At some point, though, he's going to have to be dealt with. I'd much rather vig him than CKD.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Why would I want to be lynched as town? Its absolutely in my interest as a townie to not get lynched. That doesn't even make sense.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I said: Why would you fear getting lynched as town if there are enough townies left. I'm sure wouldn't be afraid.

I'm. . . not? I recognize that for you, me saying, "you're as wrong as you were yesterday" is a lot of words, and might seem like a heartfelt defense, but rest assured, I didn't devote hours thinking how I was going to get out of your stunning logic.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

You're right, my attention turned on you when you voted for me. Its almost like, I saw your vote, and noticed it, and responded to it. That's shocking, really. Obviously the behavior of scum.

And the point you're so willing to martyr yourself for (so

noble

). . . what is it again? That I'm scum because you say I am?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

The sarcasm is a great touch there that does nothing to help you TSN. Much better offensive tool than defensive.

Shrug. Its more a case of me being annoyed. Kscope's wrong, but he's

so convinced

he's right, and he completely refuses to engage me with any kind of reasoning, probably because

he doesn't have any.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Fuck it. He's useless. Let's be rid of him.

Unvote, vote kscope.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

TSPN. OMGUS much.

Yep. I've given him more than his fair share of chances to explain himself. What if he was scum? How would you tell?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I agree with armlx. . . and also, that's why the lynch all liars meta exists, to discourage backfires like that.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

That doesn't acronym very well.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Whome is doing an excellent job of popping up just long enough to dispel suspicion, then disappearing again. We could do a lot worse.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I am suspicious of TSN for saying he would like mw lynched, but not voting me.

Well, what I actually said was, "we could do worse." I prefer kscope, hence I'm not voting for you. I never said I'd like you lynched, at least not today. I did say that earlier. . . which, speaking of, I've voted for you at least once, and I think twice. So I'm not afraid of it. Do you really think I'm setting up the mislynch when you're at, like, L-9?

Kscope:

What is tar doing that's rolefishing? Why is it scummy?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Sweatman... do I really have to explain why fishing is bad?

Yes. You do. See, as far as I can tell, you're completely clueless, and I'd like you to prove that you aren't.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Elaborating is bad for the town? What, you're incapable of giving a definition of "fishing?" I'm not convinced by your evidence. You're still lining up in the "this guy has played on this site for two years and he's still this bad?" category.

I'd settle for an explanation of why you're voting for me. See, all you've given so far is "he reacted when I voted for him," which is like some sort of time paradox.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I've been informed on your playstyle. I think its useless. I think its anti-town. I think you do it just so its harder to tell the difference between you as scum and you as town, which is tremendously weak.

PS: You actually accused tarhalindur of fishing. You might want to read your own posts-they aren't that long.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Sometimes. My playstyle always eventually confirms me as town if I am, just because I am sticking solely to one person.

And, let's say, hypothetically, you're wrong? Because you're wrong right now.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

The post is meant more as a referendum on kscope than on me. I'm not anticipating people taking my word for it.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yeah, its weird that skitzer would get a neutral read off of peers, but would nail celebloki. I'm certainly not sold. . . and not that it matters, but I'm also pretty sure bm was protown, judging by his coloring on the front page.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

So you all accuse me of lurking, so I try to read through people and find cases on them, and when I do that, you accuse me of creating weak cases? I may not have had full attention on this game, but at least I'm making an effort to get back in.

What bogre said. . . you don't get a mulligan for spending most of the game not making cases at all.

I'm content with matt_s softclaiming for now, as well, and since kscope has mostly disappeared, I suppose I'll stop harassing His Uselessness.

Unvote, vote whome.

For the repeated popping up only when mentioned and then disappearing.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

K-scope: I asked you if you knew what fishing was.

You still haven't proven it.

If you don't want to be treated like a fool, play like you aren't one.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Who would be better, armlx?

I know what fishing is. I know fishing has multiple lairs and players have multiple visions on it. Just because you probably have a different vision (Since you are implying that), it doesn't mean the other player is stupid, a fool or a worse player.

No, I'm implying you're making stuff up as you go along. You clearly can't even keep track of who you were accusing. I'll make it simple:

In Post 2843, you said tarhalindur was fishing. What exactly are you talking about, and why is it scummy?

In Post 2903, you say I was fishing. What exactly are you talking about, and why is it scummy?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

BM aside, I don't really agree with armlx's "we should lynch someone else for discussion." Let's lynch the scummiest player (whome). We're going to have to deal with him

sometime

, since he clearly isn't going anywhere.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Rather use the vig then a lynch on him. Lynches are better for information purposes, and with WhoMe everyone appears to be just "Meh, he can die".

While I'm all for discussing the vigging, I don't think its good to absolutely fix on one target for vigging, particularly as an alternative to lynching that person. Let's say the mafia have a roleblocker, and they know farside will hit scum. They'll choose to block, right? Or maybe they'll do it, but whome is actually town. . . and now if he doesn't get killed, we can't be sure, and we have to lynch him anyway.

Vigging BM made sense (obviously mafia weren't worried about him), but I dislike vigging our best choice.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

If she doesn't announce her target and she targets scum, the scum won't roleblock her (providing that they can) and she'll kill scum, so we won't have to vig her target tomorrow...

Right, I'm all for talking about it, getting consensus, I just don't think farside should announce who she is and is not listening to, and because of that, I don't think we should vig whome instead of lynching him because I don't think we should decide on farside's vig.

And yes, matt, they could start roleblocking her. If she's targeting town, that would actually be a good thing. . . and since she's only targeted town so far, they haven't had any reason to start.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Wasn't Whome going to be vigged earlier in the game until we concluded that the fact the Vig was still alive, suggested that Whome was town?

I certainly don't recall thinking that. I assume the mafia no-kill meant the mafia tried to kill farside and failed, and have since stopped trying.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Me either. I think a whome lynch and skitzer/andersonw vig would be ideal.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

*Will not be doing on PBPA analysis on anyone this game. Man, if there were ever an argument for quick days to reduce signal-to-noise, this game is it.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yeh, and i think we should probably quit it with the role discussion now. -.-
Please join me in voting for Armlx.

Please join me in voting for WhoMe. That guy needs to die.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'm not interested in lynching armlx.

Off hand, I'd lynch whome (obviously), TS, skitzer, or anderson before armlx.

I'm not really even clear on what the reasons for lynching him are.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

BM is the biggest cocktease this game. . . "whome is obvtown based on something previous in the game, but I'm damn sure not going to tell you what it is." That isn't really doing it for me. As for "tunnel-visioning," I've spent most of the last days going after matt_s, TS, or Kscope, mostly because whome spent most of those days doing that thing where he disappears until pressure dictates he plays.

I also honestly missed your case on armlx, I really really don't want to go back and reread either your posts or his, so just reiterate it. I'm not unwilling to lynch armlx, I just need a good reason to.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'm just waiting for the whome wagon to develop.

I'm not interested in pursuing armlx. Or BM. I might be interested in celebloki/peers, but he wouldn't be my first choice.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

That's sort of how I feel. I'd be willing to lynch him, I see the merit, but he isn't my first choice.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Also, I'll be out of town until the 7th.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Sorry, busy with alot of things. Still convinced we should lynch TSPN though

Then why are you voting for armlx?

More whome votes, please.