revO emaG - TENET

[petapan]

big lul about this one

hey you hear that ffery

if you scumread peta it's a scum claim.

yes, i'm saying if fferybork or whoever abruptly pulls a reversal after strongly expressing a townread on me to get me eliminated then it's because they're scum. i don't expect any of them to because anyone who knows me at all knows this is as flagrantly town as i can get but it's possible i have a blind spot somewhere

[petapan]

i think me vote parking you implies i don't really think you're town and no one's trying to talk me down out of it

i don't think i could convince u to come down from that read as much as i can for LLD to come down from her read on u tbh

i feel like i'm a lot more open to reason than her but it's also a moot point becaue she's obviously not going down today and i don't think i am either

[petapan]

okay so all this shit where you do the interaction bit with me and try to look genuine it's all for show?

like I've been saying?

cause if you think i'm scum after how i've approached this game state peta

you know

it's a scum claim

the way you've been pushing setup spec i think is faulty for certain eliminations, have tried to bulldoze through my claim and have tried to preemptively tie me to my scumread? am i supposed to know that's town?

peta

this is as flagrantly town as i get

i'm currently turning on my "lld is town" pheremones

i'm definitely town telling and anyone who thinks i'm scum must be scum

i definitely can't turn this on as scum.

definitely.

is this supposed to be sarcastic or not i can't tell

like i have certainly allowed for the possibility you are town a whole lot here because as i have been saying repeatedly we don't see eye to eye and it's not like i expect my reads to be amazing. i just don't know why it should be obvious to me.

[petapan]

and you can be scum while doing it and say "gotcha"

and still do it

amazing

then it's not really a trust tell innit

[petapan]

why do i only see support for wagons on people who aren't here?
first it was spiffeh now it is pooky

because in the game of mafia if you stop talking you lose

[petapan]

bro i have a power role too

how is this not obvious

probably because i'm dumb as fuck

[petapan]

VOTE: LLD

[petapan]

wait i was already not vote parked there

man my mind is fucked up

[petapan]

why you think i'm out here being like "this is too much power this is too much power"

still distrustful of that arg (not that i think it's incorrect but it's the way scum like to make people doubt things) but ok probably one scum in you/skitter/sb9, and one at most if my speculation is right

[petapan]

imo given roles that start in an incompatible timestream need to turnstile and are not guaranteed to do and will likely be facing a logjam by design, balance wise i'd expect they count as like 0.5 of a regular PR. but thats just my guess, i dont make setups

[petapan]

outside of

spffieh
lld
us

who isn't claimed here yet?

-b

midwaybear i think altho i can probably guess

[petapan]

(not that i think it's incorrect but it's the way scum like to make people doubt things)

i mean fwiw you're not wrong here and i'm not just writing off LLD for this (this is exactly what i did in illicit except that i was extremely hamfisted about it because i am bad) but townread her outside the claim

-b

that was one of the games on my mind yeah. that and 2180 where iconeum did it and it absolutely wrecked town

[petapan]

i knew when i signed up for a hydra with a bigger player than me that this would happen because i've seen less dominant hydra heads have the same experience repeatedly but it still stings a little
-ceph

every time i have doubts about your slot you post and it seems so wonderfully town that the doubt goes away

[petapan]

everyone but like 4 people are already outed

[petapan]

A50 - tracker transmitter
Peta- Follow-receiver
Obtusebear - VT backwards/ weak PR forwards
fferyBORK - VT/VT
LLD - Weak PR our side / ??? forwards
skitter - VT / Watcher forwards
Spiffeh - VT/PR backwards
Pooky - VT?
Firebringer: VT/VT

just wanna ask what your thought on the balance is: like 2 town prs per timestream that work in the one opposite the one they start? because that's what i've been guessing

[petapan]

Scum really trying to keep Pooky alive huh

idk ceph has been saying he wants to get him and then cabd comes in with this so ???

firebringer made a good point about him, the hydras suspect him last i checked or at least were talking about dunnstral's read, idk if that changed with lld defending him. i was shaky but i did agree with what firebringer said

[petapan]

LLD, maybe Dandelion
skitter could be scum, but I’m weak when the pushing gets to this point.

Obtusebear - VT backwards/ weak PR forwards

btw, is this accurate? you don't have to fullclaim. i would've sworn knowing you you'd end up being a full vt

[petapan]

about pooky buddying/manipulating everyone?

yeah. i felt like he started the day making reads that felt political and he was taking, like, distant stances on everyone. i dont know how to explain it better. then i made my give up vote on him and he raged at me and kind of faded into just shitposting after

[petapan]

lets see if we can shake a wagon
UNVOTE: pooky

i checked and the votes on him are you/midway/skitter. we're like our own misfit tribe at this point

[petapan]

i can hammer purple room and vote pooky

[petapan]

shld i

[petapan]

VOTE: Brian Skies

VOTE: Brian Skies

i died inside from these posts back to back
-ceph

i legit for a second thought brian got blitzed even though that wouldn't make any sense

[petapan]

i can hammer purple room and vote pooky

no hammer purple room yet, it's scum-infected most likely

does it matter, like what are they gonna do, tell lld to keep tunneling me if shes town

[petapan]

i can hammer purple room and vote pooky

no hammer purple room yet, it's scum-infected most likely

does it matter, like what are they gonna do, tell lld to keep tunneling me if shes town

i wanna put a pin in the purple room now because i'm p sure it's been put to ill-use two days in a row now

what does that mean

[petapan]

scummoning

[petapan]

midway seems the type of person to me that very much tries to appease the status quo when he is scum. he very much did that in illicit and from FGO from what i read.

This looks more like SFA midway to me.

I am turning into an armchair metaer but that's about all i have to go off midway with

-b

I thought his naked vote on me appeased petapan and went along with status quo

But maybe I'm biased

i thought i was scum though?

[petapan]

I think you are

There are sadly worlds where you are not though!

PEdit: @peta

so he's scum appeasing scum or what

[petapan]

i mean i don't have the information to tell you if that helped town or not but as a game i thought we had decided early on that needing to switch threads to use your role was possibly a towntell depending on how the initial setup worked (did scum get to choose who goes where? i feel like the mod answered this but i don't remember for sure)

i feel like in general activating PRs is a good idea, and it introduces some accountability for role usage if scum trueclaim
-ceph

i had the same conclusion as well but at this point you have to think not everyone with a pr who works in the other thread can be town right?

[petapan]

I am stunned i am the only one concerned with grilling pooky.

you can get him to answer i don't think he would talk to me

i did think it was weird that he was basically absent then only showed up to yell when you suggested voting him

[petapan]

pooky i'm literally not voting you (although i admittedly was toying with the idea)

[petapan]

look pooky i don't wanna argue with you right now because clearly you're just gonna give me shit, you can talk to firebringer

[petapan]

, the followup of spiffeh potentially being scum never happeend with either of your slots, even tho he's being plenty scummy here

i mean neither of our slots have called him town here; i've engaged him a bit and he might be scum but he's not my #1 and he's not been exactly omnipresent yet

not sure what you expected to happen in the event his removal didn't prompt a "forwards thread is now a world where the only restaurant is taco bell and we have the three seashells" esp considering what ffery had to say about the read coming in

we turboelim him or what?

-b

your #1 is currently skitter?

[petapan]

im going to be honest here im not sure the idea of being in a hood with tammy being risky for scum is borne out by reality

[petapan]

i was the one who was most strongly scumreading spiffeh and i got into it with him some dozens of pages back or whatever it was, i've made a few posts about it if you'd like me to quote. i'm not sure skitter's arguments were as strong aside from him just not being towny here

[petapan]

i was the one who was most strongly scumreading spiffeh and i got into it with him some dozens of pages back or whatever it was, i've made a few posts about it if you'd like me to quote. i'm not sure skitter's arguments were as strong aside from him just not being towny here

what as of 6600 did you not like about his iso in the other thread?

because i think that's how we got into this current gamestate of you v him

-b

i was looking at day 2 and saw a lack of scumhunting, in hindsight using this as a way of reading people was probably not the best idea given the reads it led me on to attack just about everyone, i think people were afflicted with holiday doldrums and there wasn't a ton of solving in either thread. nonetheless after repeatedly trying to dialogue with him i was unsatisfied, in particular i felt the reads he threw out were just implausible and didn't reflect critical thinking, he's been very surface level. i can quote the arguments i made earlier today for you

[petapan]

basically after being unsuccessful in trying to get something out of him, some sort of stream of consciousness that felt like a Real Thought, I went back and looked at his iso in the other thread from the start and found things i had issues with

[petapan]

Town: {Deacon Blues, Dandelion Wine, LLD}
Townlean: {Firebringer, skitter30}
Null: {Pooky, midwaybear}
Scumlean: {petapan}
Scum: {Almost50}

This is where I'm at off the top of my head

Might ISO Pooky and midwaybear if I get the chance this week because I haven't read many of their posts since getting here

AMA

in hindsight i probably shouldn't be giving spiffeh a pass for sheer total incuriosity; having a50 as his sole scumread is also pretty shite

takes me literally a few minutes to look at someone and spiffeh couldnt be fucked lmao

Hmmm you're right that I probably shouldn't be so generous with town reads given the amount of scum remaining

It's just how i feel rn idk

If I had to guess the scum team I'd say {A50, petapan, Hench Princesses, Annie Edison, and two of {Pooky, midwaybear, Bell, superbowl}}

caveat: he walked this back almost immediately because it was incredibly late, but i still dont see how someone looks at the game and thinks all those people can be town and the scumteam is in that group

[petapan]

but i still dont see how someone looks at the game and thinks all those people can be town and the scumteam is in that group

because you don't agree w/ them or because they don't make sense together or what

-b

i don't think the way things have been going and the kills reflect that. his scumteam guess also included every non-skitter investigative. but in general i feel as though he's been surface level with his takes, like that midwaybear driveby he just did. (midwaybear is maybe in the iffy range in that i think he could totally post like he's been doing today as scum, but on tone still town i think). i don't like the stickiness of his a50 read, i feel that's a lazy lurker elim scum would want to push, and some of his reasoning on that dishonest. i had words about it earlier.

i know you think a50 is scummy. my read there well could be a disaster. if he's not scum we're probably hosed, lol. but i think scum want to play less like a50 and more like spiffeh where they can look on a superficial level like they're doing something but aren't trying to sort just push eliminations on easy targets

[petapan]

hey a50 real quick you said i was town because i'm a receiver, ppl said it doesn't make sense for you to think that given you had a role like this that was scum in overkill 2, what do you say to that?

[petapan]

like i said i should clarify that he was like "this is silly" immediately after but in general i don't feel a depth of thought there. of course this can be a town who is struggling with the game but i havent pulled things out that i liked

[petapan]

Spoiler:

i'm isoing spiffeh and the continued insistence on wanting to come to this thread i can't help but read town. the rest is thoroughly mediocre though

even my minimalism loving self cant townread someone who halfheartedly farts out empty reads and does nothing with them

eh 1744 reads town but not impossible to fake

If I feel like efforting tomorrow I'll try to ISO my null reads and try to feel some type of way about them

this is much like something you said with your reads yesterday and i really don't love it

while i've certainly promised to do things later as town and had trouble delivering i think it's much easier to fall into the trap of promising to deliver content later as scum and then not actually following through because it's harder to get the engine running but talking about how you're going to do something makes people want to give you time and often don't follow up. i realize at the point in time this was said the game was going a mile a minute but in general i think continually making statements about how you're going to put in work and not actually doing so are scummy

thoroughly mediocre

perfect description of my town game I'm glad you've finally come around!

this is why i keep asking you stuff, trying to figure out how you think about things because i don't -really- have experience with you. so i have to consider whether this is simply a matter of playstyles clashing as the self-deprecating wounded pride stuff seems real enough to me, but every time you get pushed on things i feel you never really open up and understanding you is completely impossible for me

what i'm seeing in this iso is that you'll make some reads, give a little bit of backing to them, but you look like you've been afraid to really push on anything, you joined the push on shelly after there was momentum on her and helped bury her, opened day 2 voting almost50 but doesn't feel like a vote with conviction, it's stuff like "bad iso with words without meaning", it's how i would talk as scum if i was trying to get a lurker chopped, and to an extent it feels like you're throwing that out there without really making an effort to be persuasive, it's just a thing that you're doing. when i ripped skitter i was similarly annoyed with her throwing out votes i felt were halfhearted but it felt consistent with a townie who has little conviction in their reads and i've played with her some so it felt in character. this feels like a read you claim to have conviction in but don't really assert much and it feels incongruous

Specifically his posts after acknowledging shelly's claim feel like he's coaxing the wagon along without having to commit any feelings toward it

OK, so let me ask the more experienced mods amongst you about this:

Cop/Tracker/Follower/Watcher/Voyeur/Motion Detector

How many of those would you include in a game like this?

Like this is a completely useless thing to ask because we don't know anything about the make-up of the scum team so it's fruitless to try and outguess what info roles town would have

this, in particular, is interesting to me because knowing what we now know, it doesn't feel like at all a fair justification for a scumread - i think this is exactly how a town-aligned tracker would respond to a claim like shelly's, with a role that not only is seemingly redundant to theirs but mimics its function exactly. i think it fits in with his play so far of trying to stay low key.

but the thing about trying to ding a50 for his response to the claim is, well, look at spiffeh's trajectory there:

314 - early town read on shelly
392 - "I don't really get why shelly is being scum read" "posting was very stream-of-conscious which I think is hard for newer players to fake as scum"
464 - cites a string of posts as stream of cosnciousness
466 - wouldn't said shelly to the other thread if the plan is to turnstile scummy players
467 - attacks muffin for shading his read on shelly
473 - criticizes bell for not giving a reason why he's confident on shelly being scum
485 - "shelly could very well be scum, I just don't feel that way and apparently a lot of people disagree"
557 - asks shelly to explain her brian skies scum read
612 - says shelly is too low in unwnd's readslist
1021 - "shelly just isn't DOIN IT for me" (in the context of who he should vote)
1271 - votes shelly, "I know I said I was townreading her earlier get over it"
1479 - gives a poe of {Pooky, Almost50, pisskop, shellyc, Hench Princesses}
1894 - reads list with shelly as a scum lean, "I initially town read shellyc but p. much all my town reads are scum reading her and her naked vote on Pooky without even acknowledging her previous certainty that Bell was scum doesn't make any sense"
1980 - "I think it's possible she realized her Bell push was being met with a lot of resistance and scum reads so she's lurking it out"
2545 - "I think shelly's probably telling the truth about her role, but that doesn't really mean anything one way or the other in terms of her alignment"
2653 - "She could literally be telling the complete truth about her role and still be scum"
2725 - "The longer shelly remains absent after her claim the more I want her to die"
2764 - "I'm fine with limming any of {shellyc, Almost50, Gypyx} today, in that order with strong preference to shellyc"

This, to me, is exactly what i would describe as someone looking to "coax the wagon along without having to commit any feelings toward it". sure he names her as a scum read, but there's not really a lot of substance to it, just saying he's following his townreads, then accusing her of lurking out and casting doubt on her claim when people were considering not eliminating her. i think him trying to put blame on a50 for his approach to the wgon when he behaved this way is hugely scummy.

this is my stream of consciousness isodive i did this morning that culminated with an analysis of his trajectory on shelly

[petapan]

then there was this sequence, i decide to ask for midwaybaer's vote because nothing is happening and i want to try to take some initiative

i was just wondering if there was anything more to it, that's fine

i'm kind of w/e on the purple room in general

could i interest you in a spiffeh (un)vote

UNVOTE: Spiffeh
Sure

Thank you everyone for universally deciding I should be flipped the week I am V/LA because of work

midwaybear is probably scum for hopping on so easily and Bell looks atrocious cheering this on from the other thread

It's almost like what I said was happening at the beginning of the Day

Is actually happening?!?!?!?!

to me, the AtE here looked insanely fucking premature. at that point in time there were 3 votes on him: me, skitter, and midwaybaer. i don't think any of us had pull and it wasn't like everyone else was going for it. at that point in time there were more votes on me. it reminded me of [redacted].

[petapan]

7359 looks confbiasy to me at first glance peta

-b

is it confbiasy if i'm just literally referencing everything he said on shelly? it's fine to disagree if you like and say you don't think it's a bad trajectory but i'm just pointing things out and making a conclusion

[petapan]

7354 how would spiffeh have known a50 was a tracker when he made the post you quoted?

-b

he wouldn't, but he's still on that read days later w/ no readjustment, he was talking about the thread needing to refocus but then has reads that feel, well,i wouldn't say consensus-y, but not very conflicting?

[petapan]

it ain't great

[petapan]

who is voting skitter right now

deacon
me
and dandelion?

yeah you're not getting 6 votes there lol

[petapan]

and i'm worried sitter could be buddying me because i'm not sure i liked the explanation for townreading me but i'm kinda not sure i care

[petapan]

bet you I can do Fire, Spiffeh, Pooky, Deacon, Me, Dandelion.

eh hm maybe

[petapan]

just noting that i see this and am thinking it over but like, i can totally see somebody scumreading a50 this game over the entire game i guess.

anyway i need a break and am gonna take off for the night.

we got somewhere...just not sure where yet. i feel considerably more engaged than i've been at any earlier point and that's something i guess.

-b

that's fair tbh

i don't think we're really getting somewhere though it's just spinning wheels

[petapan]

and i'm worried sitter could be buddying me because i'm not sure i liked the explanation for townreading me but i'm kinda not sure i care

like who reads this and thinks oh yeah town wrote this

good lord

it's fucking peta+skitter+a50

and MAYBE mwb or maybe not.

Like for me it's like....

i do for one

[petapan]

i accept

[petapan]

i accept

kay

which one of you is dying.

Who you want first. A50? Skitter?

or are you doing you first?

i'm obviously not doing me first but if either of those two is scum i accept death as my punishment for being bad

[petapan]

i'll let the wine club decide

[petapan]

a50 you and firebringer's posts this game make me smile

[petapan]

It is important to note that A50's recent vote on me is the only vote that he has cast the entire game

not true! he also voted for pisskop (i realize this is not in his favor)

[petapan]

hey a50 real quick you said i was town because i'm a receiver, ppl said it doesn't make sense for you to think that given you had a role like this that was scum in overkill 2, what do you say to that?

I already answered this. My meta as a mod is to do crazy shit. After all; it was an OVERKILL game (up to 6 people could've dies on N1 iirc). I don't believe SC follows the same school. He's just not as crazy as I am.

sorry if you did i missed it

[petapan]

you're all right, i don't care what the other people in this game say

[petapan]

No no

If the other side is going to elim Skitter, then I'm probably not voting Bell

Because it was an either/or thing for me, and it doesn't make sense to get both at once

probably just going to let them have their way and snapvote tmrw if its wrong and i'm alive

[petapan]

pedit peta it literally loses the game if she's town and wrong. hence stupidly performative and manipulative ...

if she and i are both town i'm p sure the game is lost already

[petapan]

you're right that it's performative and manipulative and yet sadly i have seen town do that exact thing. not that i'm assuming she is

[petapan]

Skitter your purple room stuff and talking about Dandelion Wine's role stuff both look really scummy

dunn, i have run out of fucks to give, so i don't really care.
either there's scum in dandelion/deacon, or the pair is functionally acting like the 7th and 8th members of the scumteam given how the game has unfolded to this point. this is unpopular take, but true.
if there's scum it's dandelion because the role is literally a scum role

it's quite possibly both of them

[petapan]

i say that even as i'm deferrring my vote to them today lol

[petapan]

i suppose maybe not

[petapan]

at some point in talking with you all i just stop feeling good and if you convince me sb9 is town then who am i left with and there's no reason to trust any of you

[petapan]

so yeah i changed my mind you can lobby for support from someone else

[petapan]

Do what you want; be paranoid; shout into the void about it if you think it will be helpful; I just want empathize with the reason behind it so I can read you better and maybe be convinced by other strong players' arguments, which I believe you to be.

But throwing random shade at both us and Dandelion as a possible team when that's basically fucking impossible is just not really helpful and I struggle to think why you'd want to do that

i don't see what makes it impossible. i'm not having thoughts because i

want

to think it, i don't

choose

what to think, it just happens that doubt starts creeping in about what any of you are working towards

[petapan]

Skitter your purple room stuff and talking about Dandelion Wine's role stuff both look really scummy

dunn, i have run out of fucks to give, so i don't really care.
either there's scum in dandelion/deacon, or the pair is functionally acting like the 7th and 8th members of the scumteam given how the game has unfolded to this point. this is unpopular take, but true.
if there's scum it's dandelion because the role is literally a scum role

it's quite possibly both of them

we're scum if we vote you and scum if we don't?

that's not what i'm arguing and my stance evolved over hours of manic hyperposting in the thread yesterday and between last night and this morning. at the time, when i was sitting at E-2, i didn't believe you'd reasonably back down on stated townreads to eliminate me unless you're scum and doing so would be tactically beneficial. yesterday i was willing to defer because i still felt like there was a decentish chance you/dandelion could be town, i'm by no means perfect and sometimes it's better to follow someone's strong read, it certainly feels like there's scum in that group, put my trust in others for the day and flip if it's wrong. but then it started to feel like i wasn't really being talked

to

anymore, i got this feeling of unease from how i was being received, and i got more paranoid this morning imagining a worst world scenario and decided my trust had run out

[petapan]

Yesterday was a bad day all around for me. I've had you settled in my mind as town for a long while. Your flip on us gave bork a case of ffery-hives. That's not where my head is currently at, but I couldn't figure out why you're scumreading us and dandelion both now.

i didn't full-on switch to scumreading you (i'd be voting you if i were), i

entertained the possibility

because it feels like something is deeply wrong and at some point i start to wonder whether someone is blinkered or actively looking to mislead me, and i'm beginning to feel issues with the way some things have been asserted. i look at other people and i start to worry more. i grew uncomfortable with the idea of a skitter vote. i might be able to rant on it later

[petapan]

Given your reads changes on us, can you lay out where your head is at now wrt to scumreads?

i can't really give definitive answers but i can try to explain feels and thoughts

[petapan]

Peta actively agreed to let me bet my life

fyi i'm backing out of that, call me scum for it all you want idc

[petapan]

your theories of what my scumgame involves are very funny

[petapan]

your theories of what my scumgame involves are very funny

Kiss my ass Peta

do you wanna do this pot shot shit at each other the whole thread?

here

let's create 50 pages of you and I sniping at eachothers perceptions of each other

where all we say is contentless shit like "Wrong"

hey, you can be like donald trump that way

tired of your shit

seems a little disproportionate but ok

[petapan]

have you tried not being mad

[petapan]

i'm really not talking down to you and i'm sorry if it come across that way, there were points in this game i was rather heated and was probably a bit too harsh and i regret that but right now i'm just kind of blase

[petapan]

am i really building a paranoia connection by entertaining the possibility of them being scum. i'm probably going to end up positioning myself against your bloc

[petapan]

i'm really not talking down to you and i'm sorry if it come across that way, there were points in this game i was rather heated and was probably a bit too harsh and i regret that but right now i'm just kind of blase

yeah saying to a woman who is upset with you being a shitter

"hey have you tried not being mad"

is talking down to a woman

just an fyi

it's talking down to anyone, for the record

but especially women

and especially me who has had fucking anger issues and manages them mostly and you being like "hey have you tried not being mad"

is like asking a fucking alcoholic

"hey have you tried... not drinking"?

fuck you lol

i do not think any of my comments warranted the response they received. my intent was not to offend.


i feel like this is going beyond the boundaries of the game so i'm just going to leave for now

[petapan]

am i really building a paranoia connection by entertaining the possibility of them being scum. i'm probably going to end up positioning myself against your bloc

I mean you are in the same breath

calling them scum

and

saying something is wrong with the game state and trying to work it out with them

if you thought they were scum you would not be solving the gamestate with them

you'd be solving it with me, the person who called them scum for 2 straight days and wanted to tunnel them and only stopped today.

Or do you have a magical christmas land where Deacon and I are scum together please pitch that for me

i'm just really a very uncertain person when it comes to late game

[petapan]

i suggest a theory about your play and you pop in right away to go "lul that's not me lul"

no evidence nothing just "that's funny not how i am ahahaha"

yeah this is a little tiring. "nuh uh, self meta" doesn't work for other people why should it work for you

-ceph

it's a jibe, i wasn't really trying to be convincing to anyone with it. but if you also dislike it i will stop.

i never got this impression in the one game i played with you
-ceph

that game was a town stomp where half the scumteam didn't play and half the town was obvtown. even then admittedly there was a lot of doubt. a better example of this is the PYP game with skitter where i basically had a full-blown freakout the day before ELo.

[petapan]

okay so i'm just going to try to lay my feelings out

i'm bothered by all this cloistered shit going on. people are metaclearing each other off shit going on in a neighborhood, which i do not find remotely assuring at all. (this is entirely consistent with my character). yesterday we were stuck with some big rollout of Imperium's reads and a plan to swap superbowl and spiffeh in the purple room and it felt like we were held hostage unaccountably to a plan that really amounted to not much and said little. dunnstral is assuring us you all have been super active doing solving stuff in the hood. bu it feels like none of that has come through in the thread at all and i have to wonder why that is the case. and with the lack of communication trust breaks down for me, i get a better sense for people who are saying stuff i can see and respond to. i don't like the feeling of being invisibly directed, early i'll follow people if they have a strong read because i don't count on my own reads to be amazing but i began to question whether i want to do this at this point.

so, when it comes to skitter, if i am to consider her as scum, i have to ask, who are her partners? and as i was thinking about it this morning it became a sticking point for me.

annie edison? i think day 1 absolutely does not happen the way it did if they are a team.

superbowl9? i think that goes against setup spec to an extent, i question whether both would ask to be turnstiled right away, superbowl seemed to sort of link himself with her on day 1 but day 2 was willing to let town direct whether she should be eliminated. but also advocated for her turnstiling. it doesn't feel partner-y to me

firebringer? i don't think their interactions look like scum partners. the way firebringer has spoken to her looked townie, the early scumread, the trepidation, the poking around, the arguing with her.

midwaybear? i suppose that's not impossible. still kind of find him town though. i doubt they'd be the only 2.



so really i don't blame LLD for calling me scum with skitter because if you look outside LLD/DB/DW, i'm one of the only people who makes much sense as her teammate


so like, if you want me to get on your side, pitch me a worldview, try to give me something that makes sense. convince me. maybe i'm horribly wrong and just writing something off way too easily. but if you disagree i wanna know

why

[petapan]

so really i don't blame LLD for calling me scum with skitter because if you look outside LLD/DB/DW, i'm one of the only people who makes much sense as her teammate

I'm trying to parse this. Does this mean you can see her as scum with one or more of LLD, Dandelion or us, or that you can't see her as scum with anyone else either?

i haven't ruled it out but i haven't thought about it enough, and this "is skitter being bussed" question would be a much harder one. she reads townie to me but i'm always afraid of people who take my side and back me up

[petapan]

Bottom line, I'm not voting Dandelion or LLD today.

Spiffeh's play this game prior to turnstiling looked like his town play in recent games, especially day 1. Today kinda feels like a stripped down, snarkier version of his early play in the other thread. If he's town I feel bad about dragging him over here. I've scanned the pooky vs FL scum game and didn't come away with much in the way of points of parallel. I'm meh about whether he's the kind of player where meta is actually that useful, though. Maybe someone could convince me he's scum with a great argument.

I go back and forth on FB but his interactions with skitter feel to me like he's town.

I'm basically trusting bork (and you since you agree with bork) on mwb.

My unvotes are on A50 and Skitter.

that doesn't answer me in any satisfactory way whatsoever

[petapan]

in fact i'd call it a dodge

[petapan]

i didn't ask you to vote your pals. i asked you to be open and communicative in conveying your reasoning, the only point you have done so is for your spiffeh read. otherwise you failed to address anything i was actually asking and bluntly repeated statements like a robot.

[petapan]

how many pages in your hood that that's the best you can explain yourself?

[petapan]

I don't have an answer to your concern. I'm trying to work through this game the way I almost always do. townread/poe.

I don't know who skitter is scum with if she's scum. Is she WKing town-A50? Is she WKing scum-A50?

If we were in the same timeline with Bell, that's who I'd probably be voting, unless somehow a lot more direct interaction changed my mind about him.

okay but i gave anti-alignment reads for skitter on 3 of the other 8 people who started in this thread, take me out, and do you see why i start to get concerned? i do not mind if you think the reasons for seeing people as unpaired is not

valid

but if i am looking at someone and having a hard time seeing potential partners i'm not going to want to vote them. you should recognize me having used this reasoning before.

[petapan]

can an outside party, possibly one in the other thread, tell me if my writing is so poor that what i was asking was unclear?

[petapan]

P sure if they send skitter over I just die lol

tbf i'm not actually sure i would do that anymore, i'd probably campaign for bell

considering what the scummy-ass townbloc is trying to foist on bell i wouldn't

[petapan]

remember when cabd was promising an epic dunk on skitter yesterday and then ghosted and now their bigtime townread just turnstiled skitter out of the thread apparently

[petapan]

I don't have an answer to your concern. I'm trying to work through this game the way I almost always do. townread/poe.

I don't know who skitter is scum with if she's scum. Is she WKing town-A50? Is she WKing scum-A50?

If we were in the same timeline with Bell, that's who I'd probably be voting, unless somehow a lot more direct interaction changed my mind about him.

okay but i gave anti-alignment reads for skitter on 3 of the other 8 people who started in this thread, take me out, and do you see why i start to get concerned? i do not mind if you think the reasons for seeing people as unpaired is not

valid

but if i am looking at someone and having a hard time seeing potential partners i'm not going to want to vote them. you should recognize me having used this reasoning before.

I wish there were an appropriate punctuation mark to put behind "yeah" to this. I'm not trying to convince you I'm right and I'm not trying to get you to vote with me.

I think your stance on this makes internal sense, and maybe external sense as well.

and you are one of my townreads where I feel like I can actually get something useful in terms of improving my own reads by interacting with you.

that's where you stand with me. I didn't include you in the "not voting today" list because I'm talking to you about other players, but that's where you are.

i...am stunned by this answer. i wasn't concerned by your read on me. that thing about interacting with me in terms of improving your own reads? i am trying to interact with you so you can possibly explicate your thinking to me so i can understand what it is you are doing. your answers have been unsatisfactory. if you town i am trying to find you and see your thinking. you're not giving me anything to work with.

maybe we had really different purposes in trying to engage here?

apparently!

[petapan]

I don't have an answer to your concern. I'm trying to work through this game the way I almost always do. townread/poe.

I don't know who skitter is scum with if she's scum. Is she WKing town-A50? Is she WKing scum-A50?

If we were in the same timeline with Bell, that's who I'd probably be voting, unless somehow a lot more direct interaction changed my mind about him.

okay but i gave anti-alignment reads for skitter on 3 of the other 8 people who started in this thread, take me out, and do you see why i start to get concerned? i do not mind if you think the reasons for seeing people as unpaired is not

valid

but if i am looking at someone and having a hard time seeing potential partners i'm not going to want to vote them. you should recognize me having used this reasoning before.

I wish there were an appropriate punctuation mark to put behind "yeah" to this. I'm not trying to convince you I'm right and I'm not trying to get you to vote with me.

I think your stance on this makes internal sense, and maybe external sense as well.

and you are one of my townreads where I feel like I can actually get something useful in terms of improving my own reads by interacting with you.

that's where you stand with me. I didn't include you in the "not voting today" list because I'm talking to you about other players, but that's where you are.

Can I ask why you think that reasoning that amounts to essentially doing pre-flip associatives from a player who apparently gets "super paranoid and uncertain" in endgame/lategame makes any sense as a reasoning we should be nodding along with?

anti-alignment tells are valid technique that i've used before, and they have seen me use, and my biggest mistake was second-guessing one for a read

[petapan]

remember when cabd was promising an epic dunk on skitter yesterday and then ghosted and now their bigtime townread just turnstiled skitter out of the thread apparently

this is such a cheap shot.

i'm asking what good reason there is to vote for the turnstile on a scumread your townread is supposed to be towncasing

[petapan]

scumcasing, i used the wrong word, sorry

[petapan]

like obviously even if my mind slipped up the meaning of what i was typing should be obvious

[petapan]

the thing to understand about me is that I've been lost all day and that's probably not changing until bork and I can sync again. My strong townreads aren't changing but everything below that is mush and I don't know how much solve to pin on setup and how much to pin on raw reads.

Your last I responded to, though, torched my current will to deal with you.

i've been trying to interrogate you, and you've been failing

[petapan]

i dont know some respect to let them make their point and argue for he elim while they're in the same thread?

[petapan]

hey skitter before you leave this thread i'm sorry for flying off the handle at you end of day 2, although i had issues with what you were doing i should have expressed them in a more constructive and less mean spirited way

[petapan]

Hi guys. Did I miss anything big?

lmao

[petapan]

If petapan is scum this game, I am very impressed.
Though, I also know his scum play is impressive so like,
there's that bit of wifom that I'm sure he does not resent or get tired of hearing all the time.
Luckily, I will end this sentence by continuing to state he seems like town to me.
Though, I think his string is starting to unfurl. Should probably get that looked at before it becomes an issue.

i have basically no reason to fly this far out of control as scum

[petapan]

so there's at least 2 scum in LLD/A50/Pooky, it's not immediately obvious to me whether this insanely scummy turnstile was to shove scum into our thread or to ensure that it is literally impossible to get numbers in inverted, probably the latter tbh

a50 and pooky are the lurker compromise lims most likely to happen lol

[petapan]

Twelve. Fucking. Hours. Of work. On a single day traders machine.

I'm just now dobe with work but I gotta start again In like eight hours. I'm going the fuck to sleep please don't do anything stupid until I catch up or die of stress related heart attack. Whichever happens first.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhh lol

[petapan]

your scumread just got turnstiled and i've gone to war with your bloc

[petapan]

please stop letting them have what they want and kill peta with me

he's not town

i'm talking to ffery atm

i have no idea what peta's umbrage w/ ffery's responses are here and i'm trying to get her take

-b

i'm going to revisit the post i wrote but i feel like i got a non-answer in asking for an explanation, just restated reads without support. i was contesting the plausibility of a skitter scumread given she seemed anti-aligned with certain people. i was hoping for some transparency because i've been fed up with how cloistered you've been, and just was not getting any

[petapan]

i was contesting the plausibility of a skitter scumread given she seemed anti-aligned with certain people

me: i've literally filled pages with talk about why i scumread skitter all day; i have barely even seen the anti-alignment argument, much less given it a lot of thought yet.

ffery says she's giving some credence to that argument and that it's shaken up her read on skitter some, but you were not clear on what you wanted out of that interaction (a validation or refutation of your argument) and you seem to be griping about having her explain shit she doesn't have very clear thoughts on

-b

i was just looking for feedback i guess, to want validation or a refutation would imply a preconceived notion of what a response should be which is just terrible play. i just wanted some input, some words on what you're thinking that i can possibly grok because so much of your stuff feels like it's apparently hidden away in hydra discussion or pt discussion and i wanted transparency. like if you're town at this stage of the game and you believe i am town, we need to come together, you know, and i'm not feeling it anymore and so i try to start a dialogue but maybe i'm just too frantic and am fucking bad at it, i don't know

i'll revisit your arguments for skitter scum. fair's fair.

[petapan]

hey skitter before you leave this thread i'm sorry for flying off the handle at you end of day 2, although i had issues with what you were doing i should have expressed them in a more constructive and less mean spirited way

it is ok i am sorry for frustrating you

not your fault. really projection of my own irritation with the game. you're all right and i need to keep my emotions in check more

[petapan]

@petapan from what I can tell a large part of your scum read on me seems to be because I've hard-tunneled A50 and haven't really provided the reasoning worthy of that tunnel

Can you explain why midwaybear's insistence on Pooky, which is fairly unsubstantiated from what I've read today, is any different and why you haven't called him out on that?

pooky is scumread by a fair number of people and has been for a while, at one time i agreed with them. i think his reasoning as mostly been the common reasoning but it did feel natural for him. however, have grown increasingly concerned lately that i have been giving him too much leeway

[petapan]

we need to come together, you know

i do know. I also need to reconcile that with what i've internalized, and that takes a little time on my end and is subject to my internal biases and it's hard.
I'm trying to figure out you vs spiffeh in my spare time because i feel like that got started in a weird spot and without having really understood why initially it was difficult to empathize w/ any of it. It requires constant resets and reevaluation, and we're trying to get there.
That's the best I can do. I'm rereading a lot of this game day.

-b

all right thanks

it's fine if you tell me it's wrong and it's a shit read because i'm wrong plenty and need people to stand in the way sometimes but i just want to be able to reach an understanding

[petapan]

pooky is scumread by a fair number of people and has been for a while, at one time i agreed with them. i think his reasoning as mostly been the common reasoning but it did feel natural for him. however, have grown increasingly concerned lately that i have been giving him too much leeway

based on A50's recent contributions do you feel that you have been giving him too much leeway too?

What are your thoughts on my case-ish post on him?

i actually kind of liked it, felt like a simple fella going own way. maybe i'm a sucker!

i didn't see your post on him would you help me find it

[petapan]

skitter is most likely town and I will be pissed if this turnstile turns out to be a death sentence for her

it shouldn't be

[petapan]

pooky did pop in when he got voted yesterday, i pointed this out and he got pissed off again and ditched. i got somewhat compromise wagon fears because of both ceph and skitter being okay with voting him

[petapan]

don't you basically have to think LLD-skitter has to be S-S for this to be scummy from LLD?

ebwop

-b

like it's [saving skitter under the auspices that she's sending skitter to the other thread to get elimed] would have to be your argument here, yeah?

-b

people scumreading LLD and townreading skitter i'd like some engagement on this because that doesn't make much sense to me

-b

mostly in the sense that i don't get sending a scumread to where they might not get voted. but maybe she would be and that's beneficial for scum. the tinfoil s/s world isn't impossible but i haven't really thought about it


it was probably a reactionary take, i had literally just opened the thread again and saw stuff happening, there was not much thinking involved

[petapan]

I really appreciate all of you

pooky i'm sorry if i've made you upset this game

[petapan]

VOTE: ALL

[petapan]

Wait peta when I asked you in 7903 how you felt about A50's vote on me you said that "it ain't great"

But now you're saying in you kinda liked his recent posts (8253)

So which is it?

From A50's vote on me today onward, can you quote the posts you liked and explain why?

the timing of the vote wasn't great, no. i forgot because this thread is insanely long and i can't remember everything that goes on and today i got absorbed in my tinfoil theorizing. i liked 8059 and he doesn't even know firebringer retracted his claim and seems to be doing his own thing disconnected from everyone else. you are free to tell me this is very stupid.

[petapan]

ok i'm clearly tilted and not sure what to do about that other than take a break

-b

i was feeling this sentiment as well, i feel as though i need to step away from the game. if anyone wants to ask me something they should do so in the next 15 minutes

[petapan]

Wait peta when I asked you in 7903 how you felt about A50's vote on me you said that "it ain't great"

But now you're saying in you kinda liked his recent posts (8253)

So which is it?

From A50's vote on me today onward, can you quote the posts you liked and explain why?

the timing of the vote wasn't great, no. i forgot because this thread is insanely long and i can't remember everything that goes on and today i got absorbed in my tinfoil theorizing. i liked 8059 and he doesn't even know firebringer retracted his claim and seems to be doing his own thing disconnected from everyone else. you are free to tell me this is very stupid.

is being super behind not knowing what is going on a town tell?

no i guess not but it implies some sort of incredibly passive scumteam that i dont think we're dealing with

[petapan]

peta how's your mwb read holding up?

shaky like everything else

there's some tone there still but where in previous days he felt he was playing in a way he couldn't as scum, today i

could

see him plying this way as scum. i probably wouldn't vote him still but confidence level is only slight

[petapan]

You don't think pretending to be behind by 'slipping' like that is outside of his scum range?

U don't think he can be both behind and scum?

I do think he can be both behind and scum, that's what I was implying when I asked peta this question

it's probably actually well inside his range lol

[petapan]

firebringer i'm sad that you're doing this because you were one of the people keeping me sane in this game

i still don't scumread you but i kind of hope you are because you deserve to win out of anyone here

[petapan]

Hey annie, still think LLD is town?

[petapan]

Petapan (3) - Petapan, Deacon Blues, Dandelion Wine, Firebringer, midwaybear, Almost50

I think u need 2 more votes?

1 more, we're at 9 now. midway won't do it, a50

shouldn't

do it unless he's scum. i just spent the last few hours pissing off the people who

might

do it

[petapan]

if i'm hammered for whatever reason, don't let LLD get away tomorrow, i want her snap voted by everyone in forward. that's all i ask.

no reads otherwise

[petapan]

i feel so bad. I really enjoy petapan.
and i think he is town.

THE GUILT WILL CONSUME ME

i enjoy you too firebringer and you've been a calming presence in the game. in the future i want to be fun but less abrasive than i have been

[petapan]

i don't really want to vote a50 because his role does something where i'm literally pointless except as a theoretical conftown that's not being treated that way. this is true even if he is scum because there'd likely be some information to decide on

[petapan]

i feel so bad. I really enjoy petapan.
and i think he is town.

THE GUILT WILL CONSUME ME

i enjoy you too firebringer and you've been a calming presence in the game. in the future i want to be fun but less abrasive than i have been

lets play in future games! invite me to ur next game.

i'm pre-inned to syr's popcorn mafia which i think is supposed to start signups on friday

[petapan]

i don't really want to vote a50 because his role does something where i'm literally pointless except as a theoretical conftown that's not being treated that way. this is true even if he is scum because there'd likely be some information to decide on

This isn't scum survivalism btw!

no irony if i was scum i would self-hammer here because this game has been draining and the last few pages especially have been tough

[petapan]

i have my pride though, and wouldn't do it ordinarily, so don't take that line as meaningful self-defense because i hate when people argue that, tbh

i just wanted to get it out there because it's the truth

[petapan]

anyway i'm sorry if i have personally hurt or offended anyone this game, that wasn't my intention

unwnd was right

love and peace to all

this will be my last post for the night

[petapan]

like i know peta is a good dude and wouldn't mean that?

i try to be good but i don't always succeed. but i did not mean any personal insult with my remark.

[petapan]

i'm going to take a break from this game for today. i don't like what it has become. some of the emotional stuff has gotten extreme and it's no fun to deal with. this isn't directed at anyone in particular i just don't like the whole feel of things. the way accusations get taken as personal offenses is unpleasant. i've been trying to play with intensity but i regret pushing this as far as i have and now it feels like it's out of control and i don't want a part of it anymore

[petapan]

likewise

[petapan]

Almost50, why did you crumb your track target in your first post?

[petapan]

i'm probably not going to read all of it but if you want to take your time and go through and ask me things i'll answer you

[petapan]

i think a significant number of you are scum or effectively playing to a scum win condition. or thought when i said that anyway

[petapan]

scum or effectively playing to a scum win condition

god are you just fucking scum

what a fucking bullshit hedge

-b

i believe(d) your continued aliveness was going to be harmful and prevent scum eliminations

but go off



now, granted, since stepping away from the thread i figured i might just be overthinking it, maybe it is almost50, the traditionally scummy lowposter, votes haven't been great, the way he crumbed didn't entirely make sense. spiffeh has been trying to actually reason with me which seems townish. but then compromising there would mean voting with 2 of the 3 people voting me currently and that seems like a bad idea, gamestate says scum will want to push to eliminate me even when i should be fairly obviously town by role because they need to force any elimination possible and i suspect that's what's happening.

[petapan]

i believe(d) your continued aliveness was going to be harmful and prevent scum eliminations

You're really knocking it out of the park too if you're town
See that's not a really nice thing to say, is it?

How is that helpful other than to annoy me? You should care about our alignment and it seems like you don't other than labeling us Plus Ee Vee Scum® but like you can't even point to a spot where we're like leading town off the cliff other than what, ffery was trying to explain to you her tenuous read on a slot that didn't align with yours?

-b

everyone makes mistakes but i'm not going to take it personally. stuff like this is offputting and just makes me want to kill you regardless though. (not that i have the ability to make that happen!)


i care about your alignment but i've been cycling through everyone trying to figure things out, i don't actually have good reasons to townread you, and at some point in conversing with you i started to get a bad gut feeling. i don't think she really explained a read though, i wanted some expression of thought that looked spontaneous and not constructed but didn't get it

[petapan]

peta if given the choice what is the order we yeet in this thread from first playaer to yourself (last)

i don't know anymore, can i take a raincheck on this

[petapan]

now, granted, since stepping away from the thread i figured i might just be overthinking it

Why is Pooky not with A50/Spiffeh

i kind of don't think pooky would go to the levels he's gone to as scum, or at least i hope he wouldn't

[petapan]

at some point i did just want to kill like deacon dandelion lld and spiffeh though lol

midway might be +scum if pooky is town though

[petapan]

Which scum eliminations do you think we're preventing? Is this about us specifically or the "significant number of you" in your post 8429?

in particular i felt like you were trying to talk me down from my suspicion of spiffeh in a weaselly way where you weren't outright defending but rather trying to divert my attention, if he is scum i would be calling for you to go after him


i guess the tinfoil i cooked up was that the random largelyafk disconnected people are town and scum are just banding together and running things

[petapan]

You didn't get it because I felt lost and really wanted to sync with bork and see if it's just me or if we're both confused af.

Have you played enough with Spiffeh to have an opinion on his reaction to being one of the leading wagons? I'm townreading that and his posting in general in both threads, but I don't know if I should be.

if that's the case, sorry, it felt like you were evading me

no i have no clue, don't know him at all

[petapan]

now i'm starting to think pure vt claims might just be town by setup spec and maybe roles are alignment agnostic

[petapan]

theres what, 2 flipped vts and claimed ones are firebringer, deacon, gypyx, and (presumably) pooky? 3 vts per side seems a plausible number

[petapan]

i know i'm like the fucking



right now but in the moment that's where i'm at and i get HP's take on this read more than ever

-b

being consistent would be scummier tbh