Dogs Vs. Cats Mafia | Endgame

[Chara]

I AM HERE

[Chara]

unwnd i am so very sorry for hurting you.

[Chara]

(what am i apologizing for)

[Chara]

(i'm assuming this is a joke but also what are you referring to, really)

[Chara]

miaou. :<

[Chara]

Truly made of ice that you don't remember

Spoiler:

Truth is I don't remember either

your new avatar is so cold. it reminds me of the person i used to be.

[Chara]

sorry, i'm forming the rat team, actually.

[Chara]

Truly made of ice that you don't remember

Spoiler:

Truth is I don't remember either

your new avatar is so cold. it reminds me of the person i used to be.

Do you still not count your own avatar as cold because they're made of crystal or whatever

but their heart is warm.

pedit: okay, i don't see how allying with an even larger carnivore would be a problem! you have the rats full support.

[Chara]

i have it on good authority that swarms of lizards are beloved by human women, and also myself.

Andante: i love your attitude as well!

pedit:
VOTE: Nero Cain

the rat federation is for demilitarisation.

[Chara]

(what am i apologizing for)

Chara did not know what it was apologizing for therefore it lied when saying sorry! Who lies? scum. VOTE: Chara

i plead canadian.

[Chara]

How can we trust the lizard when their blood isn't the same heat as us?
That seems sus if u ask me

the lizards blood will be warm if you hold them close to your heart and give them a kiss.

[Chara]

(what am i apologizing for)

Chara did not know what it was apologizing for therefore it lied when saying sorry! Who lies? scum. VOTE: Chara

i plead canadian.

Hm convincing, although that means you know just as well as I do that all canadians being nice is a lie. And it so happens you're one of the not so nice ones

i'll have you know i'm a lovely person. i made an important phone call the other day and only cried twice.

are you sure

you

aren't a filthy... canadian?

[Chara]

can i interest anyone in a sweet rat in this trying time?

Spoiler: sweet rat(s)

[Chara]

bulba bulba saur!!

[Chara]

Can lizards be trusted tho? Chara tells me yes, but she is canadian and trusts everyone.

But it is canadian*

My apologies.

i do love lizards.

do i trust unwnd? this is a different question.

[Chara]

I think it's cute how Nero thinks he's our leader

Andante however has my full support, you have to trust that face.

[Chara]

Ivy i am unsure of at the moment, i thought Nero's reaction was fine, but unwnd's immediate "i don't think Ivy would be this brash as scum" makes me wonder, i didn't think she was being all that brash. what's Ivy like as scum, unwnd?

[Chara]

i'm a little curious about Ivy's opinion on that, but it does seem like a normal thing to point out to me in a general sense.

but then again i also understand the tendency to want to make immediate comparisons when you've

just

seen someone's scumgame.

[Chara]

Why not just woof woof quack bow wow shimmy instead of breaking the animal noise trend? I think scum are fine with the animal noises as it's easy to imitate

this is reminding me of an eerily similar conversation during that Boon vs. game about anime shitposting.

[Chara]

If you think I could be potentially making the same mistake, by all means

I wouldn't throw myself in front of a train for Ivyeo right now, I just threw my own take out to garner response

i have no idea if you'd be making the same mistake because i don't remember the context of that argument or how it related to the alignments of those involved one bit.

though i do remember being of the opinion that joining vs. not joining in fluff/shitposting shouldn't be weighed all that much, i think your take's fine.

[Chara]

I need to continously remind myself chara has fooled me as scum many times.

<3

i don't remember if you've fooled me a lot or no, but selective memory says i'm good here and i don't want to be corrected.

[Chara]

It just felt a bit odd to me. At the time it felt more like a serious post when most everyone else was just posting fluff, but now with the other posts it's almost like... how do I put this... A fluffy-actual game statement?

i meant how you felt about unwnd's commentary on your scumgame, but re: Nero's post, i do think he was just posting some military rp material.

pedit: oh i thought Ivy was talking about Nero there

peditx2: lmao

[Chara]

Fire: that sounds right, and also may be a function of being unsure how to read you so i just go caution-first.

but you do feel townish so far this game and i don't know what that means, exactly, but i'm going to make an effort to not just throw you in the null pile this time!

[Chara]

oh god, are the lion care bears bears or lions?

[Chara]

im really enjoying all of andante posts and don''t know how much is due to avatar lol

i liked Andante's very first post where i was complimented and the avatar was different, so absolutely no biases here.

[Chara]

wait, that was her third post. my memory might be biased after all, shit.

also if Cakes opening as scum is to vote someone, comment the game doesn't matter because it's bastard, then say don't @me i'm busy and i'm not going to explain the vote, i have to give props.

[Chara]

rat federation best federation, welcome to the cause Shiro.

[Chara]

toadette being Isis is an unsurprising development, Chara is just so fun to play with. :>
speaking of, FARKRAN, hello, it's so nice to see you.

[Chara]

Oh a budding wagon that I feel milquetoast about

VOTE: Farkran

why Fark here? was this vote in reaction to xofelf getting some votes?

[Chara]

Norwee we can still have a fun shitposty time here.

[Chara]

VOTE: Farkran

[Chara]

Well, anyone else wants to talk about the superiority of catgirls over doggirls?

i think the doggirl and the catgirl should kiss.

[Chara]

i like that flow wants to be a part of all the fluffposting right from the beginning. it's respectable.

[Chara]

i also thought unwnd's quick defense was kind of weird but the background behind it wasn't bad, not so much as "i also think Ivy is towny from that" but "this feels like a normal opinion", also so far this game no one but Fire has captured my heart (read: felt like their game is going a place)

[Chara]

it's due to the anti-cat propaganda perpetuated by this film. it worked on me.

[Chara]

Everyone's just joshing around at the moment, so there is no one to capture anyone's hearts. I'll probably review the unwnd/Fark thing later, but for today, this game has an incredibly low content-to-pages ratio and it's not actually worth the effort to try to distill anything out of it.

trying to get workable content out of the fluff is the quickest way to get out of that phase of the game, though.

[Chara]

toadette being Isis is an unsurprising development, Chara is just so fun to play with. :>
speaking of, FARKRAN, hello, it's so nice to see you.

HELLO AGAIN MY DEAR SIBLING

<333 pay no attention to the knife at your back, dear sibling, i am only holding it for a friend.

[Chara]

VOTE: Farkran

My heart suddenly broke. I still think you're in good faith though

what are you thinking about me?

pedit: i support you Andante.

[Chara]

i'm going to go enjoy some tea and cake, and i will see all of you tonight. <3

i've seen one beeboy game where he didn't play as scum but i thought it was an irl thing.

i also am not really sure of what your towngame is, Fark, but my expectations are

sky high

.

[Chara]

not really sure of the point of 526, is the idea that there's one scum in the antiposting camp worth making a list to sort out all the players? and more than that is Andante's idea one that holds water?

pedit: please do, i don't do well under the pressure of having to do it myself. :>

[Chara]

it's okay, i have an anti BoP personal policy. but i always appreciate townhunting.

and it will be fun to try and actually learn how to read you.

[Chara]

unwnd you are a mood.

Kazyan: alright then. i don't really agree with Andante's idea, though i'm not sure the idea it sounded like she was proposing is the one she was actually saying. i do think there

is

plenty of AI info here already, too.

[Chara]

i also thought unwnd's quick defense was kind of weird but the background behind it wasn't bad, not so much as "i also think Ivy is towny from that" but "this feels like a normal opinion", also so far this game no one but Fire has captured my heart (read: felt like their game is going a place)

Not even your fellow mouse ally D:

hold on, this is the rat federation, not the mouse alliance. who are you

really

?

[Chara]

A rodent trying to get along D:

....this is now the rodent federation.

[Chara]

Fwiw I think both STD and Xof are town. Their posts don’t give me the be schemy vibes at all. Though I am just going off my interactions with them from Survivor games.

this is a really unfortunate acronym. perhaps we can call them Dragons.

i'm interested in how Survivor vibes compare to mafia ones? i've never played a game of survivor but i kind of know the method, it was my understanding that every player schemes because they're all trying to win, though.

[Chara]

i'm not really all that concerned about beeboy because i believe the meta thing, and it will become really obvious with time if it's true, more than just a couple days can say.
i don't remember who's joined there but if beeboy is scum it'd be nice to look back at.

pedit: ok. :>

[Chara]

Having fun isn't exclusive to town mind you, but trying to discourage fun is sour grapes

I think people are easier to read and get along with if they're enjoying themselves

[Chara]

I think it's just with Kaz it seems like it's initiating conversations on people other than himself? I just haven't like the feel of the buddy buddy that's been going on.

this is a towntell to me, i'm not sure what you're saying is scummy about it?

[Chara]

VOTE: Andante

This blind vote on a rising wagon is concerning me.

VOTE: Andante

What kind of progression is this?

VOTE: andante
Just because that post they made about us being unable to yeet them pissed me off

"man your Andante progression sucks"

*votes Andante*

how did this happen twice how far down the rabbit hole can we go here

[Chara]

Kaz has loads more content than Andante. I don't like Kaz's posts but acting like Andante's are better is baffling.

Andante takes the initiative by voting bad people, seeking out trouble fearlessly

Kaz sits at their desk writing up tall tales on potential good and bad people

I choose Andante every time

I mean this does not make sense to me, i see things literally opposite

However, i still think unwnd is town so i'd like to understand how we can have such contrast in our gamestate analysis

why exactly do you scumread Andante? i haven't seen any good reasons and i think she's town.

that's separate from finding Norwee's and then Cakes vote absolutely hilarious however.

[Chara]

Yeah cakez ignoring his own hypocrisy is bad

And here's the opposite take lol unwnd whyyyyy

i can see where you're coming from with this re: making an obviously hypocritical move could absolutely be a towntell, but why does that make you like the Andante wagon more? unless you're just TRing the players on it.

[Chara]

Chara I think you're town this game and I could not be more excited

Don't make a fool out of me now

i'm very flattered this makes you excited, i'll do my best

also @ xofelf: i appreciate the in-depth answer! i think seeing how you play will be interesting given how you're applying that, though i don't know how to approach reading you on it yet.

pedit: hnnnnghhh posts.

[Chara]

Personally, i don't have any strong scumread so far, including andante. However, i dislike the content/posts ratio and the content itself from andante when i isoed her + i decided to move my vote there because the wagon comp isn't bad to me

Pedit: yeah, i townleaned norwee and when i pedited and saw cakez i liked it more

i would like to see Andante do more contentposting given her position right now, i don't find the exaggerated reaction to the votes to be very useful.

[Chara]

Protect fun

Protect andante

Kill pooky

i don't think i've read a post from pooky yet.

[Chara]

i was wrong, i've read plenty of pooky posts but they've all been fluff except for the beeboy thing at the end and so didn't stick. i'm mostly curious about if unwnd was giving a read there.

[Chara]

i want blood for the blood god!

[Chara]

is it worth asking how many scum one should expect in this game? i'm thinking no given it sounds like balance will be weird but having

some

kind of number is helpful conceptually.

[Chara]

actually, Andante hasn't really been avoiding content? i thought she was with the kdowns vote too but there is stuff in her ISO as recently as 834, there's just a lot of extraneous posts around all of it.

pedit: that would make sense, i didn't think the animal talk was necessarily roleclaiming though, especially since if it is a lot of players have already claimed dogs.

[Chara]

ye gods another 15 pages... I'm really not having a good day so don't expect a killer flea wall catchup...

i hope the rest of your day/tomorrow is better, Flea. <3 and no rush, there's plenty of time.

[Chara]

i didn't think the animal talk was necessarily roleclaiming though, especially since if it is a lot of players have already claimed dogs.

the game is literally called dog vs cat mafia. I like dogs more than cats. why is saying one species is better a role claim?

i don't think it is, was my point.

[Chara]

Norwee also gave a reason for the vote on Andante a few posts later. i just think it's funny that you have a problem with that but are essentially doing the same thing and it's worth talking about it.

i don't think it necessarily makes you scum, but there's no need to take that attitude, especially when you say you knew how it would look.

pedit: this is @Cakes

[Chara]

i like Dwlee for town. i don't have any great big reason, but their posting is good.

[Chara]

okay i like Cakes post here too, in part because the Dwlee thing which must have been written before i said anything about it, though i guess it's expected Cakes would like Dwlee after their last post.

i've liked Kaz enough, if i'm remembering right and they're the one who did the busywork of posting positive vs. antiposting player list.

[Chara]

i don't think my join date has anything to do with my head for setup balance/numbers, especially in a large. i've modded two games and they were both setups made by others. but thanks for answering anyway?

[Chara]

i've definitely played in larges. i thought the number would be around 5 but i don't know how that changes in a 24-player. and if it's multi that's probably moot anyway.

[Chara]

I'm also curious because if not NAI I actually think putting themselves in anti-posting could also be seen as lamist

pretty sure Kaz was listing players who were fine with the fluffposting vs. players who were not fine with it, and it wasn't anything to do with Kaz's own opinion.

[Chara]

oh right, and i did know about that post. i'm the one who didn't put two and two together i suppose.

[Chara]

good morning thread.

Fark let's talk as motivation for me to leave my warm bed.

[Chara]

flow: why the Ivy votes?

[Chara]

i feel like i like Ivy (this is in response to Fark), but there is a sense of "newer player" vibe, which i don't mean in a bad way but i do read differently than a player with more games, possibly incorrectly.

non-committal i get, i don't really get the feeling she's piggybacking off of others. but i do wish she'd give more reads because i did like her start, and now she could be characterized as floatier. possibly scum here who's having some trouble in a big game.

pedit: ideally the honest answer but i appreciate that honesty too.

[Chara]

But I'm caught up now and Cakez pointing out the game is bastard which I vaguely remember being a true point from signups has sapped my wim down a bit so I'm out of shrooms for now

I don't find toadette that scummy but this had me a lil' worried that it might just be scum that's getting in an early excuse to coast. its w8 and see.

if Toadette coasted here i would cry. so she won't, it's fine.

[Chara]

ideally the honest answer but i appreciate that honesty too.

I don't remember why .-.

i asked because you voted her early on, then after unvoting Norwee you revoted Ivy. you don't remember why you went back to her the second time?

[Chara]

I agree with 197 from Chara but Chara is good scum so no town points for Chara unfortunately.

i really don't like hearing this sort of thing from people i haven't played with. i know it's only one comment but try to actually read me before saying you can't because i can play scum.

pedit: hahaha. okay, so what do you actually think of Ivy's play currently?

[Chara]

damn, Dwlee stole my only question.

CAT: i can accept that.

[Chara]

Idea: People can find so many reasons to scumread Andante mostly because she has so many posts. Thus, more chances to say something someone dislikes, regardless of alignment.

it's so hard to scumread Kaz when they make posts like this.

i also feel like i know how they think more than most of the thread and on a day 1 like this that makes me not want to vote them.

[Chara]

Raya: why do you townread toadette so strongly? (obligatory: for this phase of the game)

the Kaz wagon seems to boil down to the busywork list, it just feels very easy. yes, objectively the work wasn't all that important, but it didn't take all that much effort, and when i prodded Kaz on it early on i liked the answer about simply looking for some bit of info to bite into. Nero's read on Kaz is the one i like the most, in terms of being developed.

[Chara]

I do like that post actually

I'm just afraid it's a white knight

so far i am unconvinced.

but i'm assuming this means you agree re: Kaz?

[Chara]

so you like my post, and you worry i might be whiteknighting, but at the same time you think Kaz is scummy?

[Chara]

oh, that makes a lot more sense.

[Chara]

what are you talking about with unwnd? they've been posting a lot and haven't stopped.

[Chara]

Memory issues

flow i love that you do this, i do the same thing.

[Chara]

also i'm only vaguely following this but Norwee

do

you have content posts besides those responding to unwnd's suspicions?

[Chara]

Memory issues

flow i love that you do this, i do the same thing.

Do what?

sorry, should have quoted more but i'm on mobile so quoting quotes is a pain.
going back and ISOing yourself to remember what you were thinking in the past is what i was referring to.

[Chara]

i support the beeboy wagon but i feel like the day can be spent on things besides voting someone who isn't here to react to it. but ending the day on a beeboy elimination is fine with me.

VOTE: Raya

[Chara]

I don't understand why we should ever eliminate a slot that doesn't even post. The allignment indicative information we'd get out of that flip if scum is zero to none. And if they flip town it's even worse.

because a slot that doesn't post (not saying this is beeboy as the day is still young) gives zero information alive too, and they need to go before the endgame. i'd want to eliminate that slot regardless.

in this case there happens to be evidence it is very AI for beeboy.

[Chara]

also if they are scum we have to eliminate them at some point...?

[Chara]

i support the beeboy wagon but i feel like the day can be spent on things besides voting someone who isn't here to react to it. but ending the day on a beeboy elimination is fine with me.

VOTE: Raya

Second hand reactions though

that's fair, i agree with pooky largely about how reactions to beeboy being wagoned would be if he is scum, however.

[Chara]

ATTENTION DUELISTS!

MY HAIR HAS DECIDED THAT WE ELIMINATE BEEBOY!

and we trust our fate to the heart of the cards.

[Chara]

But what if someone vigs Beeboy and we vote someone that will react more to pressure instead.

this is why i'm proposing a non-beeboy wagon right now. i think Raya's scummy, we can talk about that.

[Chara]

I believe that if Beeboy is just scum then not only do we eliminate scum but we garner reactions from partners as well. Limming inactive slots (especially in this case) is far more productive earlier on

but i find it so hard to say no to unwnd when they speak my language about trimming inactive slots. i'm just thinking pushing beeboy at this moment is less fun when there's a whole cornucopia of players.

[Chara]

I don't understand why we should ever eliminate a slot that doesn't even post. The allignment indicative information we'd get out of that flip if scum is zero to none. And if they flip town it's even worse.

because a slot that doesn't post (not saying this is beeboy as the day is still young) gives zero information alive too, and they need to go before the endgame. i'd want to eliminate that slot regardless.

It was being proposed that we eliminate the slot even if it gets a replacement.

in this case there happens to be evidence it is very AI for beeboy.

I don't think this is the case based on what I've seen. I think Beeboy has adopted this playstyle regardless of playstyle and also has happened to roll scum lately. I played with him a while ago and he definitely did not refuse to post as scum.

if this is true it's a fair criticism of the eliminate beeboy idea, but i do find it hard to believe beeboy's just been joining games and then not playing them?

[Chara]

unwnd: thanks for letting me know. :>

[Chara]

i think Raya's scummy, we can talk about that.

okay, why?

Raya's toadette read stood out because she gave the reasoning as toadette having a contentful entrance in comparison to others. fine for earlygame, but Raya continued to question scumreads on the slot while catching and the read feels like it has more strength than is warranted.

that and the Kaz read, which i did talk to Raya about and i can see the angle there, but it does also seem to me like an easy read to make, you see busywork and call it scummy and then you can use that to direct the rest of your posting. i remember Raya quoting a post someone else made about how the pro posting/anti posting list was weird, but then Kaz did put out a readlist afterwards, and Raya interacted with the part about the busywork list being pointless and possibly lamisty but it didn't feel like she was really digging into why it was made.

i'd like to discuss both these points when she returns to the thread though. the problem may also be that Raya's stuck playing catchup whenever she has time to post.

[Chara]

policy elimating lurkers is pro-town. scum need to be forced to make content and town needs to do their best too or replace out. this games ruleset even supports that idea, though it's more for the health of the game than for town.

pedit: i townread Kaz, don't have a read on toadette.

[Chara]

I mean logically it makes sense but I'm not sure that necessarily makes it town

i can see how my comment was read like that, but i was talking more about vibes than the comment making logical sense. like, Kaz saying what they want and having a strong, potentionally contentious position that gives a good idea of what sort of player they are and how they approach mafia, is why i townread them. it was just a random example of the style of Kaz's posting. the way they reacted to calls for making content earlygame also tracks with this. it just doesn't feel like they're trying to appease anybody even as they sort of went along with what i and others were saying.

[Chara]

i support the beeboy wagon but i feel like the day can be spent on things besides voting someone who isn't here to react to it. but ending the day on a beeboy elimination is fine with me.

VOTE: Raya

this post is so disingenuous lol
says we can spend the day not voing someone who is not here and then votes someone who is....not here!

Raya's not physically in the thread right now, therefore she isn't playing?

[Chara]

i support the beeboy wagon but i feel like the day can be spent on things besides voting someone who isn't here to react to it. but ending the day on a beeboy elimination is fine with me.

VOTE: Raya

this post is so disingenuous lol
says we can spend the day not voing someone who is not here and then votes someone who is....not here!

Raya's not physically in the thread right now, therefore she isn't playing?

what did you mean by "not here"?

i meant that beeboy hasn't been present aside from a few posts, and i don't feel like voting him when i'm not sure if he will return, while Raya is definitely playing the game and presumably will return to the thread at some point.

[Chara]

Cakes: no problem.

unwnd: i really like ir-dr's work. they're on tumblr, their art is very high energy anime stuff with lots of sharp colour and there is so much of it.

[Chara]

Chara I need an avatar that exuberant new youthful energy. I will be the personification of my own demons and use that power for my own again

also i believe in the new you

[Chara]

beeboy, kdowns, brave heart lion, toadette, fire, Flea, Chara

I will be watching these people closely

<3

why is Ivy in your scumpile?

i'd talk more about Kaz but i think we are just going to disagree on that.

pedit: i'm focusing on maybe 5 names and letting the rest wash over me like a cool wave.

[Chara]

Cakes: no problem.

unwnd: i really like ir-dr's work. they're on tumblr, their art is very high energy anime stuff with lots of sharp colour and there is so much of it.

I really like the specific recommendation. I am very keen on the arts you could say

i've been in love since their phos artwork, then they dragged me into genshin impact.

might be worth changing my face again.

[Chara]

unwnd: i know. i know it is. i have a problem.

Cakes: i didn't hate her opening but i found the posts past that pretty underwhelming.

pedit: i know Raya was one, i talked about this a bit.

[Chara]

Cards of Destiny? i was an alt in that one with active town Hayasaka. it was a 2020 game.

[Chara]

i think i should be scared. i can see the midgame "oh god i shouldn't have trusted Chara" panic mode now.

[Chara]

why are you leaning town?

[Chara]

unwnd: i am hurt, betrayed even, by you saying you've come around to Fark's point of view on Kaz without even acknowledging the blood sweat and tears i have put into that townread. which i'm still very confident in thank you. (sorry Cakes)

[Chara]

Are there any other posts of Kaz's that stood out to you as towny? I do agree with the one you mentioned but I'm not seeing it the same way you are in their other posts

i picked that post as an example of what i liked about Kaz, i don't really vibe with the approach of looking at certain posts in isolation and figuring out what makes them towny or scummy.

so i'm not sure i can explain the read more than i have, but i am wondering what you liked about that post specifically. is it just that there was agreement about how you felt about the Andante wagon?

[Chara]

I guess I'm confused why you think it is opportunism to be on Andante but haven't really named examples of such opportunism and presumably don't think so about my vote. There are three votes other than mine on Andante, which ones do you find opportunistic?

i think the votes on Andante are legitimate, there is content in there like the Shiro scumread but it doesn't feel like she's really interested in focusing on that or even on sorting for town as much as having fun. which is fine, but i don't a good sense of where she's trying to go this game from her posts so my townread is lessening.

[Chara]

when i read posts like unwnd's talking about scumreads on Farkran i'm like oh shit, better distract that issue to help out Fark. in my heart he is my one and only forever scumbuddy which sounds sweet but also kind of means i keep not actually reading him for alignment.

[Chara]

I guess I'm confused why you think it is opportunism to be on Andante but haven't really named examples of such opportunism and presumably don't think so about my vote. There are three votes other than mine on Andante, which ones do you find opportunistic?

i think the votes on Andante are legitimate, there is content in there like the Shiro scumread but it doesn't feel like she's really interested in focusing on that or even on sorting for town as much as having fun. which is fine, but i don't a good sense of where she's trying to go this game from her posts so my townread is lessening.

Correct, the people voting me legit think I'm scum, for bad reasons :/

this is a hilarious response to this post and i love it.

[Chara]

VOTE: Raya

she switched all the lights on at home and left for holiday hoping we wouldn't notice the house is actually empty

also Chara is right that her defence of Toadette feels like she has weights in her shoes

Couple questions

Why are you piggybacking on someone elses thoughts?

Why are you operating under singleball?

Also

@ Chara

Why are you operating under a singleball?

what gives you the idea i'm assuming singeball?

[Chara]

she keeps asking people to explain their reads like explain more reasons for why shiro is a wolf or more reasons for why kayzan is town

she doesn't know what to do at the bottom of the treehouse while we lounge up her so she's just awkwardly asking questions but all the while she has an axe behind her back which comes out to smack the tree when we're distracted by the questions

i think her reads have been fine and made sense, but they don't feel fluid or like they're being figured out in real time, the reads at the latter half of the catchup are the same as the ones at the beginning. more of an absence of things that feel like town really solving than anything scummy.

don't agree that she's just been asking questions and not giving any stances herself.

[Chara]

Correct, the people voting me legit think I'm scum, for bad reasons :/

but you don't seem to be defending yourself against this "bad reasoning" you are just content to sit back in and let others say that you aren't scum b/c you are lynchbait....and that's a fallacy. It's like you are scared to get down in the trenches and get your hands dirty.

I mean, it's not really my playstyle to sit here and towncase myself...

what is your playstyle?

[Chara]

Chara I will neighborizer you tonight and I will paraphrase the scum PT a lot in the neighborhood and we can pretend you are scum I will be a better buddy than Farkran

i could never do this to Fark. the solution is we all hold hands.

[Chara]

Anya is probably mafia I just don't care that much about it

but i care immensely, anya is my number one supporter! i need to know if she's planning terrible things.

also *holds hands*

[Chara]

I also lean town because Chara has been discussing activity in a way that positions it poorly if it has an effort dip like it did during certain phases of the innocentvillager normal where it was scum.

are effort dips a trait of my scumgame in your opinion?

i tend to zig-zag with how i read activity, rl is rl and can't be changed or read and i believe that, but there is an element of attrition to certain scumgames that i believe is very readable, and it does come from my own experience as scum. i think it has to do with how (with players who experience anxiety/stress as scum, and less as town, ie players like me and not players like Prism) feel obligated to continue their efforts as scum but inevitably hit a point where it becomes more strained.
whereas the same player as town hits those straining points but doesn't stress about them or try to power through and so handles it better while expending less energy.

[Chara]

I got vaccinated specifically so I can hold hands with Chara

i am getting my first vaccine shot tomorrow!!

[Chara]

re shea's mod note: i do my best for others and like to be corrected. personally i do not mind when someone does not remember my pronouns because i know they are a little strange, and there are a lot of players here, but acknowledgement and use of them makes me happy and if that matters to you i encourage it.

[Chara]

I was gonna say there were activity dips on Undertale S Open that weren't scummy but then I remembered you were scum


Anyway the IV normal activity dips really had a flavor to them that made me think you were mafia

those dips in Undertale S weren't scummy because i was possessed by the spirit of a town ghost.

i was really feeling the fatigue by the time of that iv normal, i think it was on the heels of Fate Grand Order mafia.

but i was feeling it in my towngames too, Boon vs. it was there, and that game i mentioned with Hayasaka as well. i think one game with at least a few weeks in between them is all i should be handling. remember to pace yourself kids!

[Chara]

VOTE: kaz I think I SR this more strongly than Andante now

Assuming you're still catching up, can you let me know why this is once you're done? I asked in-thread earlier and I didn't get a response.

still catching up but which part? kaz or andante?

Why P(kaz = scum) > P(andante = scum)

I think this is town

i also think Dwlee is town but i'm curious why their rephrasing of the question using logic (? toadette is that what this is i don't know math) makes you say town.

[Chara]

i saw what you didn't like about Shiro, it excites me about as much as my Raya vote excites me, except less as i don't remember much of anything Shiro's done so far.

why do you feel better about Andante?

[Chara]

">" symbol is a logical thing. P() is notation for probability which isn't usually colloquially referred to as logic (though if you delve deeply into theoretical mathematics terminology that attempts to distinguish "math" and "logic" isn't actually high utility nor a frequently motivated classification. It's thereby unsurprising that some computer programs are most easily written by having them read integer values as though they are logical values. This is discouraged as a matter of style, however)

<33333 that you answered like this

i assumed Dwlee was using P to denote a variable and the brackets were an explanation of what the variable was and didn't get that it was for probability at all, but that's obvious in hindsight.

[Chara]

Anya is probably mafia I just don't care that much about it

but i care immensely, anya is my number one supporter! i need to know if she's planning terrible things.

also *holds hands*

go Chara!!!!!

also toadette this was meant to be a question about why anya is scum.

[Chara]

What is shiro on?

E-1

What is SHiro actually on?

Shiro has four maybe five votes, i think.

[Chara]

also there's a vc on this page!

[Chara]

flow trap stop doing a spoiler for like 2 posts. its stupid

i don't agree with the wording of this message but it is pretty unnecessary and does make browsing the thread harder, i kind of rely on being able to ctrl-f things.

[Chara]

Anya keeps showing up to the thread with reasons to feel shade towards people and rarely with reasons to townread people which is big multiball scum mood

oh god you're telling me i have to read multiball scum differently than regular scum?? i barely know how to do t normally

pedit: i am waiting with baited breath for the new expansion to release on ps4.

[Chara]

why do you feel better about Andante?

The conviction with which she says to be town actually seems to be coming from town. I would expect scum to give reasons why she's town, not just assert it like that. Also i want to give credit to unwnd and andante could alignspew later with that amount of posts, or be nked

Shiro is a better lim for today imo

hmmmmmmmmmmm.
i can agree with this. at the very least there are absolutely better slots to go for today and Shiro is one of those.

[Chara]

i think toadette's town because she feels more <3 like her towngames than like the one scumgame i've seen. yes, that's right, watch me apply a single scumgame as meta like the worst kind of scum i constantly complain about. i guess we're all hypocrites in the end.

[Chara]

Toadette uses the correct singular for criterion...

[Chara]

I'm referring to this. This is a fantastic case imo if its singleball but it looses its meaning if we're dealing with multiple scum teams. In order to win, one scum team would need to eliminate the other so even as scum Raya would need to, as well as be able to generate authentic reads, No?

i think there's a difference between scum who is hunting for another scumteam while hiding their own alignment and an honest townie.

also i really do not know how else to hunt if it's a genuine fact that multiball scum are going to look exactly like town because they're both actually hunting. like, one of them isn't town and has reason to lie, one of them cares most about their team not being eliminated than if a townie or a different scum gets eliminated, i just don't believe this is the case and i really do not know how else one should hunt. how are you hunting for scum here if not by looking for authenticity?

also my response to anya was about how i don't think Raya has been asking questions over content, which is what anya asserted there and the static reads thing is scummy to me in the absence of Raya signaling town. my opinion didn't change between the two posts.

[Chara]

Oops, it's once again my morning catch up before work so I'm gonna have to put this question on hold again. I'll set a reminder on my phone this time though.

i find this a more important question to answer than catching up with every post in the thread.

[Chara]

Anya's recent posts bother me greatly

VOTE: Anya

Care to elaborate?

Yes

My initial read on Anya was that I liked her independence from everyone else. I felt like she wasn't forcing her own pace and didn't seem preoccupied with having to think about partners. She was saying whatever she wanted, when she wanted. I changed my mind on this however because I think her behavior became excessive, and she might've slipped up. The way she handles Dwlee had a certain aloofness that seemed forced. If you look at Anya prior to that moment, she is a bit quirky, but not so much that she'd change her vote 3 times in a span of 20ish minutes. She's always been a bit odd, and maybe playful. I think however she might suffer from sustaining her own apparent town behavior. I think to put it simply that her response to Dwlee felt like acting and none of her votes in that moment made any sense.

Another thing I didn't like is that it seemed initially she was writing up reasons to change them. Her posts about wanting to the end with Beeboy just didn't sit right to me because why of all votes do you need to validate your reason especially with how you've been treating the game. It was surprisingly self-conscious for a player who is trying their hardest to seem not to.

i was vaguely into Anya for town, and looking at the way she conducts herself this game i am still into that idea, but i would be lying if i said that toadette's read plus yours makes me less confident about this even though i don't really agree with the reasoning.

things like "not so much that she'd change her vote three times in the span of 20 minutes" seems like kind of an arbitrary line to draw for what constitutes a period of strange behavior from Anya.

[Chara]

what's your proof dwlee

VOTE: Norwegian

Y'all are really trying to prove his point about the wagon composition

what's your proof dwlee

VOTE: Norwegian

Why would town!Anya make this post?

i wanna wrap the day up and after some deep introspection i realised i don't mind if it's the bee or the Norwegian

Okay sure I get your vote (you've been flipping between a set of people that includes Norway for a while) but "what's your proof?" It feels super weird.

what's your proof i change my vote a lot

i figured that wouldn't last

VOTE: beeboy

Chara I need you to validate my thoughts on Anya #2020

like 1975 is Anya joking about Dwlee's comment that she changes her vote too much while making another naked vote, Dwlee asks why, Anya responds that she doesn't care if bee or Norwee goes today. i think that's fine.

the vote change after 1980 is interesting though. anya, why did unwnd saying you're no longer in town core prompt a switch back to beeboy/Titus?

[Chara]

I'm open to perspective on why you think Anya is town

i like her reads.

[Chara]

this is the only game i have with anya but that seems to be her personality. i do think your theory about the self-consciousness is interesting and i am aware i may be biased due to her Raya vote, but considering how she responded to requests for townreads from her and that the pool of players she scumreads isn't actually that large i think i can see how town Anya is playing here.

her scumpool isn't that large by my memory, at least, i could be wrong on that.

[Chara]

i think you've been cursed.

and yes that's me who thinks Raya could be scum here. i'm still pretty undecided on that because she is playing the past version of this game at this point and i'd really like to see her current.
1912 is current but kind of fence-sitty with the conclusion, perhaps i'm being unfair but i've played with town Raya before and not found her so flat.

[Chara]

pretty much yeah.

Norwee is a slot i am generally fine with votes on but i see multiple(?) players like Fark/Cakes saying he's town, and i did once single-mindedly pursue Norwee as scum for like two grueling game days for my really excellent reasons before he then flipped town.

that said i think i've liked Ivy's recent posts even if they've been sparse.

[Chara]

i am caught up but it's in the way where if i ever do need to break from the thread for some reason those pages are lost to the dust now.

[Chara]

does this change with multiball, Titus?

[Chara]

honestly? I'm just read to end the day

i'm not, it doesn't feel stagnant in the least. though i know deadline is creeping.

plus Titus's rep-in is a deal.

[Chara]

it has been talked about in the thread a fair bit, obviously you wouldn't have read this yet but i think it makes sense. i am curious about why you suspect multiball.

pedit: i was thinking it was a cat mafia vs. dogs but that the dogs were some kind of special town faction because dogs vs cat media often features evil cats and Varsoon's SU mafia did something like that with the crystal gems.
but in hindsight multiball just makes a lot more sense and is simpler than some highly specialized mechanic in a Varsoon theme.

[Chara]

VOTE: Raya

Last time I sheeped you Chara it ended up being a good thing

:>

what was the last time?

[Chara]

Did anyone claim to be a cat or dog yet? I haven't read everything so i might have missed it.

not seriously i think. who knows for sure.

[Chara]

i'm not, it doesn't feel stagnant in the least. though i know deadline is creeping.

it's not so much about deadline though that is a good reason to get in gear but its 80+ pages and nothing is really going to get solved without deaths and night actions.

then it's because i want to see more from Raya.

Andante wagon is kind of dead, where are you thinking you'd like to go?

pedit: the only scum i remember catching was Ydrasse who was sort of caught already. but sure.

[Chara]

I'd rather sit on why I suspect multiball but I may have no choice. I logically deduced that dogs and cats are not the bad guys, but from my spot it's not hard.

if you think it's a good idea to sit on that by all means, i think multi vs. single is a more important thing to know than what the scum flavor is.

[Chara]

Would you guys prefer when I catch up I just read instead of trying to make a post to go along with it? It's not my usual playstyle but then I should have more time to actually play in the present.

yes please!

[Chara]

i'm unfamiliar with Aliens as an alignment.

[Chara]

if furries were in the table this whole time...

pedit: is it that strange of a claim? i don't know what to make of this really.

[Chara]

actually i guess Timone for checking insects is less random than i thought it was.

[Chara]

Dogs and Cats and Aliens but also Bojack fucking Horseman the animated series

why is bojack horseman the weird part of this? by my understanding half the cast is animals.

[Chara]

this game is so good.

[Chara]

Pooky the way you're saying things is scaring me

I don't like that feeling

If I ever make you feel safe and warm I'm probably scum.

not true, you were very fuzzy and warm during Undertale C.

[Chara]

i have zero idea about whether Titus's claim is legitimate but shea has the vibe of a weird role being possible so i'm not comfortable saying it's too weird for this game. at the very least it's consistent with her entrance.

but i can confirm bojack horseman does not seem to have aliens in it.

unless the aliens are humans? also the introduction of furry characters brings a whole new dimension to this game and i want in.

[Chara]

not true, you were very fuzzy and warm during Undertale C.

Yea right before I tilted into 900 posts of despair, doom, and misery

must have been after i jumped ship due to my own misery.

[Chara]

why does an alien cop confirm multiball? are aliens just multiball by design? i tried looking on the wiki but i only found the jailkeeper variant.

[Chara]

i have zero idea about whether Titus's claim is legitimate but shea has the vibe of a weird role being possible so i'm not comfortable saying it's too weird for this game. at the very least it's consistent with her entrance.

but i can confirm bojack horseman does not seem to have aliens in it.

unless the aliens are humans? also the introduction of furry characters brings a whole new dimension to this game and i want in.

this smiley should NOT be there i dont know how it got there i am entirely positive about this.

[Chara]

I also feel more inclined with nero's thought about wacky ass claim to throw town off

I don't wanna think about aliens overnight

God is my only extraterrestrial being

i am as okay with eliminating Titus atm as i was beeboy.

[Chara]

i think she's said all she can without quoting it.

[Chara]

I think you more or less know that aliens exist, in the same way in Multiball both mafia factions should be aware of another

what does Aliens existing imply about the setup? multibase-wise, singleball-wise. could there be an Alien sk?

[Chara]

VOTE: Dwlee99

This is so bad lol

i kind of don't see what you're seeing here. why can't Titus being town and pooky is only pushing the beeboy slot (who is also Titus) be the wording? who would lying Dwlee have mistaken Titus to even be?

[Chara]

Is it possible (like, realistic set-up wise) that Adante and Titus are both learning about a fake faction

why can't Titus know of a fake faction and scum andante be white nighting someone for town cred?

why would scum andante fakeclaim knowledge for a faction she doesn't have knowledge about just for the whiteknight cred? it seems like shooting herself in the foot.

also i am pretty sure Aliens aren't the only scum faction even if they do exist.

[Chara]

LMFAO IM LEGIT LAUGHING IRL AT THIS

thank you Cakes it was important

[Chara]

as much as i am enjoying this the setup thing is also important, and i am also thinking that Aliens actually don't make sense, but also is solving this on day 1 important enough to make possible-PR Andante claim if she's not up for elimination?

like i'm not sure but i do kind of still want to take out Titus today.

also sorry for ignoring the murdercat stuff Fark i just have zero opinion about the slot and i don't feel like going to get one right now.

[Chara]

like i think i've been stupid and that we are definitely in multiball. dunno how that interacts with Aliens at all.

[Chara]

i prefer Titus to Norwee. but i am going to be out the door in a few minutes so... i guess i need to go.

[Chara]

2329 fucking posts

How many of those are you sitting there thinking 'i will remember and use these for future days'

Not many!

i mean i think this specific discussion about aliens and multiball will be referenced a lot later.

[Chara]

okay i need to go but we can talk about this when i get back!!

[Chara]

v/la til late friday while i go through metamorphosis

[Chara]

hello i am here to solve the game.

[Chara]

my townreads are all on murdercat but i don't know why murdercat is a wagon besides Fark finding him unremarkable.
are there claims? i'm not asking for claims i am asking if there are claims

pedit: oh hello unwnd what should i do

[Chara]

Also if Norwee is scum Fark is scum with him, sentiment still applies!

I kinda still townread Fark, why is that?

because he's Fark and he's lovely.

[Chara]

I'm Iago from Aladdin and I'm just a VT so hammer me.

don't be like this if you're town, you know your alignment more than any other player.

[Chara]

VOTE: Norwee

[Chara]

if that was hammer it was unintentional.

[Chara]

i hate it here.

[Chara]

Kazyan is not an alien.

thought process behind investigating Kaz?

[Chara]

who are your SRs again Cakes?

[Chara]

VOTE: SirCakez

This is my guess. I'm supposing the Shiro wagon was a chainsaw for EE.

Cakes is a TR. why the Shiro wagon and not the murdercat wagon?
i know Cakes was defending Norwee only because of his post just now, i don't remember the dynamics beyond that.

[Chara]

@Fark and toadette - unwnd is dead so i need you both to be town and help me out, please and thank you.

i mean, Cakes can do that too, but i already think he's town.

[Chara]

this might be overly spicy but like both those NKs were UTRs and both of them were people who were not playing like they had a power role so I think it is singleball anyway

Shea labelled a mafia cat mafia but Shea lives in a castle of lies

UTRs?

also does this mean you think there aren't aliens?

[Chara]

i tried to make a readlist and realized i don't have a perception of about half the playerlist.

but Dwlee and cakes are town, and firebringer and xof are towny, Kaz is somewhere in the middle of that.

i think Ivy, Raya, Andante are scummy and i want to sort in there, Titus is very neutral but i think the Alien thing isn't true, however i don't know enough to say for sure that i want her gone if there actually are Aliens.
at most probably one of those first three is actually scum though, probably, because there's too many players i don't have a read on.

[Chara]

hello Fire!! please do your leader thing.

pedit: i liked xof's post. :<

[Chara]

i think that's a hard thing to say when there's a lot about the setup that is mysterious.

pedit: true, if there was an alien faction with a single kill available (if that's how it would work??) i would want to use it on the alien cop.

[Chara]

all of toadette's posts here make me think she's scum. :<

pedit: i really doubt he would. i think those were both scum kills and Nero was blocked or perhaps hit a BP target, or something else.

[Chara]

i think Andante should claim how her role corroborates Titus's.

[Chara]

I'm actually not really gimmicking this alt at all besides the truthful and forthright assertions of my rightful species identification.

I don't know if maybe I'm playing just a smidge different cause of the tone the avi and name sets but I'm definitely not making much of a conscious effort to roleplay.

i'm just having a hard time with your vibe right now. where are your gamethoughts at?

or what do you think of my reads?

[Chara]

i miss unwnd too. i wanted to do Boon vs. Hectic 2: Chara is helpful this time.

[Chara]

sorry Nero, you also deserve to be mourned, i do like playing with you.

[Chara]

if titus is scum i don't think aligned with andante

i am less sure of this.

[Chara]

I looked over interactions last night and came up with this. Someone let me know what they think
Gonna vote here VOTE: Cakez

Spoiler: stuff

Norway asked Shiro to start an early alliance so probably not partners
Wanted Andante killed in a non-distancy way so probably not partners
Was against beeboy wagon
Asked Farkran why he was town to them. Was trying to get farkran to help the view of his slot. Would've just told his partner in the pt to do it without prompt
Defended Anya (maybe partners?)
Defended Dwlee (maybe partners?)
Flow called his vote the worst on the wagon so probably not partners

From vote counts:
Beeboy probably a cat driven counter wagon (firebringer + flow trap + MC + Anya + BHL + cakez)
MC probably a cat driven counter wagon (STD + farkran + andante + pooky + toadette + firebringer + kazy + cakez + BHL + kdowns + ivy + andante)
Don't think firebringer got enough traction to be scum driven

Those who early voted norway: (Shiro)
Those who joined when other wagons had traction: (flow, kazy, STD, anya, firebringer, ivy, MC)

Unlikely to be partners: (Kazyan, Save the Dragons, Murdercat, Andante, shiro, flow trap, Farkran, anya, Ivyeo, firebringer, xofelf)
Partnernull: (pookythemagicalbear, Titus, Flea the magician, kdowns, Brave Heart Lion, Chara, toadette)
Good chance of being partners: (Dwlee99, sircakez)

Those left to sort not just based on VC:
pookythemagicalbear - only 2 mentions of norway and they both could have been from a partner, was also on both counter wagons
Dwlee99 - defended norway early on, said norway caught for the wrong reasons, called his defensiveness playstyle, was against norway elim, maybe defended too strong to be partners?
Titus - called norway scum by vca, was too jumpy with her norway vote to be partners I think but I'm not sure
Flea the magician - Barely any mention except 1 vote
sircakez - Defended Norway a bunch, was against norway elim, was on both counter wagons
kdowns - No mention of Norway
Brave Heart Lion - called Norway scum early on, switched to leantown. Didn't really feel like distancing
Chara - Seemed kind of indifferent about norway. Said Titus elim was preference but still ok with norway.
xofelf - Had unsure but negative things about Norway in their analysis, had norway as scummiest
toadette - Not much for mentions of Norway

thanks for doing this analysis. please step out of my suspect list for now. *opens up velvet rope and gestures*

i don't think either of Norwee's defenders (Cakes and Dwlee) are scum though.

i agree about Andante and Shiro not being partners with your reasons, and Shiro in particular looked like a real interaction that makes no sense to fake, but i wouldn't remove Fark on that basis as Fark is very aware of partner tells.

[Chara]

Based on those quotes I am very nervous about Kaz, think cake is at least not aligned with mafia, think Dragons is not aligned with mafia, think Andante is not aligned with mafia, think Titus could be mafia aligned, think Shiro is not aligned with mafia, and I'm worried about flow trap.

do you think it's singleball, or did you mean "aligned with Norwee"?

[Chara]

Raya: my opinion on Cakes does have to do with finding him very town by play. same with Dwlee actually.

[Chara]

If we're doing NKA Nero kill points to Andante

Why is that? Andante for other reasons feels very town to me right now

can you talk about this? i know why Fire TRs Andante but i'm having a hard time with the read.

in hindsight the Shiro read from her feels very "oh i need to do some actual hunting, let me give One Read that i can back up".
i'd dearly like to go over Andante's ISO and confirm this feeling but i do love myself. maybe later.

[Chara]

chara u should just listen to me

i'm sorry Fire. maybe you can listen to

me

. :>

if it helps i find your Farkran vote spicy and fun.

[Chara]

VOTE: Andante

This blind vote on a rising wagon is concerning me.

VOTE: Andante

Andante has very wolfy confidence with how they're saying we need to keep up their votes on them.

on further consideration, i actually don't think Norwee's ISO indicates he isn't scum with Andante.

[Chara]

the wagon discredit + hop-on is still weird and aside from 1015 Norwee doesn't really push Andante besides that.

[Chara]

ty. what should i listen to u about

i would like you to read Andante's ISO from the vote on you near the end of the day and onward.

[Chara]

Well part of the read is still backed by how bad I found the wagon. But my actual townread started when she was vouching for Titus. That's how Andante acts as town from what I have seen and unless Titus and Andante are scum together I don't see the motivation behind it if scum.

i also think the wagon wasn't very strong, but i don't think that necessarily makes Andante less likely to be scum, especially given it's multiball so scum are going to have less power to get the wagons they want. (right?)

the Titus thing does give me pause, but that's why i disagreed with Fire that they were necessarily unaligned. it's a super weird thing to do, but Andante's only town for it if Titus is telling the truth and Aliens are a thing, and i'm thinking Aliens aren't a thing. and murdercat made a good point about it being very strange she was allowed to get a result.

[Chara]

you can call me a butthead, i don't mind.