Sushi Mafia! Game Over

[Plum]

/I didn't believe I had confirmed by PM either, but anyway . . .

[Plum]

Ah. Hey, it doesn't bother me .

[Plum]

Vote: Plum

for the awesome sig.

Vote: Raider

18 = Numerical value of the Hebrew word for life certainly =/= always scum.

[Plum]

Self-voting while randomly voting is a null tell.

Self-voting when the game is serious is a scumtell.

I've come to generally agree with this viewpoint.

[Plum]

Crud crud crud. My computer ate my long beautiful analysis/recap post . I'm very chagrined.

Short version:

- MK being even half-serious about Lyncher/Jester speculations in the RVS is anti-town and annoying, but my feelings on it are 'It's somewhere between a nulltell and a mild scumtell'.

- Seraphim's questions, he says, were to probe Azhrei a bit to get more information and more of a read on him, as Seraphim claims Azh's post didn't point out anything that wasn't general knowledge. Fair enough, I guess, though unconventional way of going about it. Overall he reads fine to me as of now.

- I agree that Slicey only noting that we are, well, clearly out of the RVS and unvoting, is, in my mind, different then Setanta's post. Slicey unvotes but doesn't say anything substantial. Setanta comes back (from some sort of V/LA, if I recall, which I might not), unvotes, it seems, for prudence's sake and promises thoughts tomorrow. That's not just, in the immortal words of OGML "

aying "Well the random stage is over so unvote" and not doing anything else", as opposed to Slicey.

- Azhrei disagrees with me on this. Care to discuss it?

- Pre-/in for hypothetical DGB game .

- Sirdan can't seem to be able to see Seraphim's questions as anything but face value as opposed to (somewhat sarcastic, yes?) probing.

Er - I don't have enough to go on for a vote at this point. Much remains null (and void!). Some things do not; as above, I'd like to draw Azhrei and Sirdan into some, hopefully fruitful, discussion.

[Plum]

Picked up my prod; sorry about that, all. Let me try to pull some analysis out of this game, shall I?

So, Azhrei and I have sort of come to some sort of agreement on a very minor point. Very well. Then Sirdanilot continues to argue with/against Seraphim. I very much disagree that naming multiple suspects from whom you cannot decide who's scummiest and most deserves your vote (and hence not voting at the moment) is inherintly scummy. It's a nulltell in my mind. Sure, scum can use it as an excuse to sit back and wait for a convenient bandwagon. At the same time, a townie can legitimately not find anyone significantly scummy/more scummy than the rest of his suspects to pick one and vote, at least early in this game (where I still feel that by page 7 there have been few if any moderately strong scumtells at all). The rest of Sirdan's post against Seraphim deals in great part with interpretations of Seraphim's posts; I do not agree with many of these interpretations, though most of them are not illegitimate readings, I suppose.

Ah, discussion of Ort's 'meta defense'. They really seemed to be two distinct cases. I recall in the case Ort brought, Ort was speculating that Animorpherv was a Jester after particularly egregious scumplay on Ani's part, and the argument was that he was scummy and might have been trying to derail the wagon (I argued that with the lynch practically inevitable and Ort's vote still on Ani, the argument was stupid). In this case MK half-seriously, in his own words, speculated about the possibility that Seraphim was a Lyncher and RBT a Jester. In the RVS after jokey comments and votes. It's not helpful, it wasn't warranted at all, might distract the town, and it doesn't really point to a townie mindset. Thus I do feel that it's a legit though minor scumtell on the part of MK.

Um, OMGUS-y vote by RBT? I'll have a closer look at the circumstances once I've finished the brief reread proper. Seraphim's vote didn't look too oportunistic; his seems to be the only vote on RBT in the next votecount. RBT claims his vote has more reasoning than Seaphim's.

FOS: RBT

. Nevermind; it seems that in Seraphim's 'wide-net' post he didn't even mention RBT as suspicious, and perhaps scum-Seraphim was picking him to vote in answer to Sirdan's suspicions. Which would be a minor scumtell on the part of Seraphim. OGML, with some truth, calls RBT and Seraphim 'noise'. However he's adamant that we're lynching MK today. The surety of that with about one week left till deadline is a bit much, however. I've had previous town vibes from OGML, but

IGMEOY

.

Some less important posts here (give a baby cocaine WTH random ).

Pear Bear, why are you, in your words, 'lurking'? Your random vote has become more than random? Well, what do you find suspicious about MK? Just leaving your vote on a big bandwagon and walking away again, are you? Thoughts? Opinions? Any semblance of contribution?

Vote: Pear Bear

[Plum]

My apologies for having a hard-ish time concentrating enough on this game.

Having said that, I'm intrigued by the case on Santos, and I'm actually rather liking it. If you'll recall I voted Pear Bear in my last post for lurking and stating that his random vote on MK had become more than random and he was going to leave it on to see what would happen. I didn't really truck with that, asked him a few questions, and voted.

PB responded to me, at least, acknowledged that lurking like that wasn't a good idea, oddly said that MK's apparent psudeo-rolefishing might have been pro-town (WTH, though I didn't see it as a huge scumtell either), and unvoted. A decent response showing common sense, at least, though it's not like I'm putting him in my obvtown book any time soon.

Santos, on the other hand, said that

Yes, I am semi-lurking, but I am not hesitating to post; I just don't have much to add at the moment as most of the discussion usually works itself out. I'm in no hurry to lynch anyone: If a decision needs to be made, then I don't mind being the deciding vote...

Which, in Sirdan's words, roughly translates to 'I'll active lurk but don't worry I don't mind to hammer at deadline!' That's worse than PB, and PB at least stopeed doing the anti-town, scummy thing he was doing, which is a plus. Active lurking and a professed willingness to hammer as he pleases without contributing to discussion and just letting discussion 'work itself out' (protip: One more townie in a discussion is, generally, a good thing, etc.) is a very decent scumtell, and a much more clear one than I've seen out of MK, PB, seraphim, RBT, or OGML, though I would like to do a reread or at least a rescan of OGML later (tis later on my end of the internet). See DGB and Sirdan for more elaboration. Consider me to be quoting them for truth, as it were.

Catching up on the next page I notice a lot of people would rather vote for me being honest as opposed to posting some BS excuse that I can't read a forum thread of a few pages and will do so in several days from now. Pathetic.

Nice lack of legit defense. I don't care that it's the tuth so much as that the behavior which you admit is true is scummy. The defense here is truly pathetic. MK sort of seems to agree that the 'people are only voting me for being honest defense' is at least in his case legit. Voting someone for being honest is never wrong; it's a question of whether the behavior in question is scummy/warrants a vote or not.

Unvote; Vote: Santos

[Plum]

those death scenes are making me hungry...

anyway...Day 2 now. what do you guys want to do?

Break ut my very limited notes I made shortly after the flip, listing plyers I thought had a decent shot at being Santos' scumbuddy. A rudimentary list of sorts using lovely, lovely Firefox's control-f function. As a jumping-off point, I think they'd be okay.

Possible Santos Scumbuddies:

Azhrei
Flameaxe
hp [leaves] - less suspicious
Jebus
OGML - less suspicious
Septia - less suspicious
Setanta

On a rescan, Flameaxe's comments on Santos included only the following:

Kind of a useless role IMHO. I'm willing to bet that he is lying.

I'm hoping people will understand what I mean by that last sentence. >____>

But does useless mean impossible? (The answer is no, and if I remember correctly it's in MBF's flash glossary)

Nothing about Flameaxe's posts, at least when read in isolation, give me a noticable town vibe either, so

Vote: Flameaxe

. As good a place to start as any, and better than many (sorry about the unintended rhyme).

[Plum]

Possible Santos Scumbuddies:

...
OGML -

less suspicious

I'd... love to hear an explanation for why OGML's "

less

suspicious". Personally, he's on the top of my list, mainly because of that rather sudden change-of-vote from me to Santos...

Less suspicious only in the context of possibly being Santos' scumbuddy. That said, my rescan of players' posts in isolation had drawbacks and limitations (for one, I have limited knowledge of, for example, Flameaxe's meta. DGB seems to think he might have bussed Santos pretty hard were they scumbuddies. That's worth taking into account despite the meta-WIFOM it risks if you argue too much about it.

Dunno - OGML's reason for voting Santos was, apparently, Santos' claim. The possibility that OGML just found the weird and stupid claim really scummy was just strong enough that in my rudimentary notes I downgraded him just a bit on suspicions of being Santos' scumbuddy only. That said, there are more things abocve I don't have enough time to answer now, and, as stated above, I feel that I need some sort of reread.

[Plum]

Yeah, hi. Plum is very likely town. I'm working out which of the rest of the lot of you gibbering maniacs out for my blood is scum, and I'll tell you tomorrow.

Yeah, hi, that's nice. You find me 'very likely town'. Quantify that? Because for once this sort of thing

isn't

working as flattery and buttering me up. It's actually pinging my gut on the scummy side a bit.

Off to Pear Bear, an original suspect of mine. To analyze posts with relevence:

Just lurking over here as my random vote on MK seems to have been a bit more than just random...

I called this out originally. Staying on a bandwagon and lurking to see what comes of it, it seems. His response to my questions:

Sorry for not addressing you, Plum, but I hadnt noticed that you voted me.
I was hesitant to post because my random vote for MK seemed to have been a decent pick in the first place, and I was assessing what everyone else was thinking to determine if I wanted to keep my vote on MK or not.
I realize, now, that random voting and then lurking when everyone else jumps aboard is really sketchy and I don't plan on doing it again. As for MK and his alleged role fishing, In some cases role fishing can be pro-town, and I think that this may be one of those cases.

Unvote MK

As Farkshinsoup pointed out, there is a problem here, mostly in that PB says he was assesing what everyone else was thinking when it came to him deciding whether to keep his vote on MK, not, say, MK's behavior and various tells. I didn't catch that as clearly the first time around (and meanwhile Santos was scummily lurking without even bothering to give the appearance of making something of an actual response). He realizes it's sketchy and doesn't plan on doing it again, nulltell. He thinks MK's rolefishing might have been protown. WTH, I said before, and I'll ask PB now:

Pear Bear, please clarify what you meant when you said MK's rolefishing might have been

pro-town

.

I was hoping that if I had kept my vote on MK he would be lynched and turn out to be scum, but towards the end of that process I began to doubt his scumminess. That combined with pressure to act in someway caused me to remove my vote. However, I didn't think that Santos was scum either, and that by being one of the few to not vote him I would assure my nonscumminess.

The problem

here

is that PB's motivations seem to be more related to scum's primary goal (looking pro-town and thus not getting lynched) than town's primary goal (lynching scum). Of course, scum's primary goal is town's important secondary goal as well, and sometimes priorities do get mixed up. "I didn't think that Santos was scum either, and that by being one of the few to not vote him I would assure my nonscumminess," says PB. Well and good if he didn't want to vote Santos because he actually thought he was town (and explained his position well, of course). Less well and good if he didn't vote Santos because he merely wanted to look townie. Basically, in my completed games I've been scum once; first time I was ever scum, and that was the sort of mindset I had: always trying to gage whether the wagon was worth banding and how I'd look if the gut flipped town and I'd stayed off the wagon (due to a comedy of errors, this ended up with me accidentially not bussing my scumbuddy hard enough when he was really scummy, because I was fully convinced he was actually town [/ramble]).

I was also extremely surprised that I wasnt on Plums list of suspects as he was the only person to vote me yesterday and now I look 1000x scummier than then.

First of all, I'm a girl and prefer to be referred to with femenine pronouns . Second, my list noted people I most suspected on the count of being Santos' scumbuddy, and due to the way I compiled it, had some flaws. Maybe I should check and see whether you're a likely Santos buddy again, just in case I missed something in my micro-analysis ? As to my hasty Flameaxe voting: it was the start of Day 2. There are lots of potential suspects and plenty of ways to start off. Why not jump right in, even if Flameaxe doesn't end up being my final vote for today?

If someone (town or scum) were to do something really obvious and scummy, and another player takes the bait, believes the lie and thinks the person who did the scummy thing is obviously pro-town (or so they say) should that player be looked at as suspicious? or just stupid?

So, should a person who applies the 'too scummy to be scum' fallacy be seen as having committed a scumtell? Depends completely on the circumstances, the relationship and other connections between the two players in question, other tells and level of suspicion of both players, etc. I've done it as scum, but in the same situation might have done it as town as well. Can't be sure. Didn't know he was actually my scumbuddy, though.

All in all,

Unvote; Vote: Pear Bear

. Not huge suspicions, but my best lead so far. OGML reread etc. hopefully coming tomorrow (got home late tonight).

[Plum]

Off to Pear Bear, an original suspect of mine. To analyze posts with relevence:

Just lurking over here as my random vote on MK seems to have been a bit more than just random...

I called this out originally. Staying on a bandwagon and lurking to see what comes of it, it seems. His response to my questions:

It was my first game in which I had been present for the first day.
I had/still have absolutely no way of personally analyzing people on the first day, and, I won't lie, my mindset during that entire day was to keep informed and follow the majority because most of you know much better than me what youre doing.

Yeah, but if you're town it's your job to express your own opinions. There are scum mixed in the players here, and

they

sure as heck aren't trying to get scum lynched. Expressing your own opinion and thinking for yourself is the pro-town thing to do and reduces scum's overall influence, percentage-wise. Even Day 1, though it's not always easy.

Sorry for not addressing you, Plum, but I hadnt noticed that you voted me.
I was hesitant to post because my random vote for MK seemed to have been a decent pick in the first place, and I was assessing what everyone else was thinking to determine if I wanted to keep my vote on MK or not.
I realize, now, that random voting and then lurking when everyone else jumps aboard is really sketchy and I don't plan on doing it again. As for MK and his alleged role fishing, In some cases role fishing can be pro-town, and I think that this may be one of those cases.

Unvote MK

As Farkshinsoup pointed out, there is a problem here, mostly in that PB says he was assesing what everyone else was thinking when it came to him deciding whether to keep his vote on MK, not, say, MK's behavior and various tells. I didn't catch that as clearly the first time around (and meanwhile Santos was scummily lurking without even bothering to give the appearance of making something of an actual response). He realizes it's sketchy and doesn't plan on doing it again, nulltell. He thinks MK's rolefishing might have been protown. WTH, I said before, and I'll ask PB now:

Pear Bear, please clarify what you meant when you said MK's rolefishing might have been

pro-town

.

Well if a townie was rolefishing to determine if someone had a pro-town role then that townie would be able to defend and cooperate with that player, right?
That was my thought process.

Your thought process is awfully scummy. Rolefishing is bad because it can out powerroles. Powerroles help town win the game; outing them lets the scum get a good shot at killing them. Rolefishing is never good. Plus, WTH, MK's mild not-fully-rolefishing was really speculation about Lynchers and Jesters, two

anti-town

roles. Do you even pay attention???

I was hoping that if I had kept my vote on MK he would be lynched and turn out to be scum, but towards the end of that process I began to doubt his scumminess. That combined with pressure to act in someway caused me to remove my vote. However, I didn't think that Santos was scum either, and that by being one of the few to not vote him I would assure my nonscumminess.

The problem

here

is that PB's motivations seem to be more related to scum's primary goal (looking pro-town and thus not getting lynched) than town's primary goal (lynching scum). Of course, scum's primary goal is town's important secondary goal as well, and sometimes priorities do get mixed up. "I didn't think that Santos was scum either, and that by being one of the few to not vote him I would assure my nonscumminess," says PB. Well and good if he didn't want to vote Santos because he actually thought he was town (and explained his position well, of course). Less well and good if he didn't vote Santos because he merely wanted to look townie. Basically, in my completed games I've been scum once; first time I was ever scum, and that was the sort of mindset I had: always trying to gage whether the wagon was worth banding and how I'd look if the gut flipped town and I'd stayed off the wagon (due to a comedy of errors, this ended up with me accidentially not bussing my scumbuddy hard enough when he was really scummy, because I was fully convinced he was actually town [/ramble]).

Like I mentioned before, my mindset on day 1 was to trust the more experienced majority, as I at no point, that day, was ever fully convinced that anyone was scum.

As I mentioned before, that's bad and an anti-town idea. Also, not being fully convinced that anyone was scum isn't reason not to vote someone. Someone's going to get lynched, and it might as well be the player you have the strngest scum-reading on, even if you're not fully convinced. Pro-tip: you'll rarely be fully convinced that someone is scum barring Sane Cops. Attempts at lynching scum need to be made despite this.

I was also extremely surprised that I wasnt on Plums list of suspects as he was the only person to vote me yesterday and now I look 1000x scummier than then.

First of all, I'm a girl and prefer to be referred to with femenine pronouns . Second, my list noted people I most suspected on the count of being Santos' scumbuddy, and due to the way I compiled it, had some flaws. Maybe I should check and see whether you're a likely Santos buddy again, just in case I missed something in my micro-analysis ? As to my hasty Flameaxe voting: it was the start of Day 2. There are lots of potential suspects and plenty of ways to start off. Why not jump right in, even if Flameaxe doesn't end up being my final vote for today?

I had suspected you were female, but I figured the chances of finding a female on the internet werent in my favour, and decided to stick with the more likely pronouns. Thanks for clearing that up ^_^

And I still feel that if you had suspected me, and noticed that I didnt vote for Santos I should have at least been mentioned if even with a (less suspicious) disclaimer. That was the first thing that attracted my FoS in your direction.

There's a little gender sign below my avatar . Funny that I actually do give a 'potentially female' sort of impression.

As above, list wasn't perfect. However, checking why I didn't list you, I find that you didn't seem to check in at all as the Santos wagon really took off, so I had little info to go on about you in relation to Santos. Also, you didn't actually FOS me, and I thought that you were more surprised about me than actually suspicious of me. You were? Good to know, I suppose.

[Plum]

I am here and will update shortly. Sorry all.

Uh... I don't get it. Why do people make posts like this? Its decently scummy and doesn't actually throw any content in. Also, its followed about 90% of the time by them not actually putting the said review up. *Getting it out of my system*

Uh, dude . . . Simenon is the Mod .

[Plum]

Plum, of all of those scrambling to find the right/easiest lynch in the wake of the Santos lynch, you're the only one who seemed to actually be trying to do so

in a way diagnostic of alignment

based on yesterday's play.

Um...... you lost me here. Can you explain that in

simpler

terms?

No. Well, ok. Basically, she seems like she's really trying to ascertain alignment, whereas most of the rest of the people voting me seem to just be doing it because its easy.

It's nice that you feel that way, but I feel compelled to point out that my work up to the point of your original "Plum is likely to be town" comment I'd posted (Day 2) a rudimentary list of people I thought had a fairer chance than most at being Santos' scumbuddy and a starting vote on Flameaxe, and . . . a mild defense of my list's position on you., along with a longish disclaimer on the fact that my list only dealt with Santos-buddy suspects, not overall scuminess. On the other hand, say, DGB for instance, came into Day 2 with multiple suspects and said considerably more about her suspects than I did (doing what I should have at the time; I probably had less time/less energy and in any case didn't) - so is she "likely town" in your opinion? Did I really do that awesome a job of being diagnostic about alignment at all? Look deep into your heart, OGML.

Basically, something down in the region of my gut is calling bullshit.

There are two possibilities here with your call that I'm "likely town".

1. You're town and am saying I'm town because you genuinely believe it to be the case.

2. You're scum tying yourself to a townie for laughs and giggles and strategy.

I'm not sure whet the vote count is, and I'm not certain OGML is town, but how 'bout we lynch someone who DIDN'T vote to lynch a scumbag yesterday.

OGML is a good / well-known player in a game that's likely to have more than one killing group. I doubt he'll still be alive at endgame. We don't need to waste a lynch on him.

Likely to have more than one killing group? One death last night makes me think not (it's possible, but I'm in no way certain enough of that to feel comfortable relying on that fact). Also we

can

find scumbuddies who placed bussing votes on Santos, too. Some feel that OGML's vote was likely bussing. If there's a good case made on any player, experienced, well-known, or someone no one has ever heard of before this game, I want to lynch him.

FOS: Talitha

.

This will be very interesting later on if OGML flips scum. I already suspect plum for a few fallable reasons, one of them being that whenever someone votes against me, and I am town, they automatically jump into my line of sight as potential scum, because theyre voting to lynch town. Also, in nearly every mafia game Ive played, those players who you think are "likely town" and do the best job at looking the part of a townie, end up being scum. And Plum is doing a great job at looking pro-town.

Translation: I have specious reasons for suspecting Plum (OMGUS and Too Townie). I'm going to jump on this wagon over here, not so much because I think he's scum, but because it will help to clear up my thoughts about this other guy who's voting me. Oh, and I'll slap "for the time being" on there so that I can back out and put my vote somewhere else if this wagon falls apart or I attract too much attention.

This is a sad attempt at scum hunting from someone who has no interest in finding scum.

Yeah, that. Two logical fallacies? Nice. Newb behavior? Possibly, quite, but I don't like it or anything.

OGML: Your whole long post you keep accusing people of ignoring, defending, whatevering Flameaxe. So - do you have some sort of case against the guy at all?

Overall,

HOS: OGML

- would like you to respond to some of the above, kay?

[Plum]

It might count. It might also be the lynching vote..., several people have voted for OGML since he was on 6 votes a few pages back. We really need a vote count.

If it counts, I'm pretty sure it's put him at L-1, according to my quick check (which may be wrong).

[Plum]

Talitha might have investigated OGML and got an innocent...

... Yeah, I'd say that's probably right. It'd be the most likely explanation I can see.

Same.

[Plum]

Talitha might have investigated OGML and got an innocent...

... Yeah, I'd say that's probably right. It'd be the most likely explanation I can see.

Or she investigated you and got a guilty.

Highly doubtful. What the heck are you talking about?

[Plum]

Talitha might have investigated OGML and got an innocent...

... Yeah, I'd say that's probably right. It'd be the most likely explanation I can see.

Or she investigated you and got a guilty.

Highly doubtful. What the heck are you talking about?

EBWOP:

Sorry, misread, thought Slicey meant Talitha might have gotten a guilty on DGB; many things point to that being a stupid idea. Guilty on Azhrei is what Slicey actually said and reasonable. Disregard above post, please.

[Plum]

Talitha might have investigated OGML and got an innocent...

... Yeah, I'd say that's probably right. It'd be the most likely explanation I can see.

Or she investigated you and got a guilty.

Highly doubtful. What the heck are you talking about?

Just throwing it out there. >_> I'm not saying it's 100% true. >__> I don't feel like she got an innocent on OGML though, or else I think she would have said something. But then again, she would have said something about Az if she got a guilty scan on him, making my last post invalid. >_>

See above. I misread your post. Talitha with a guilty on Azhrei, which you suggested, is possible. I misread and thought you meant Talitha with a guily on DGB, which would be almost rediculous. Again, you may feel free to disregard that mistaken post of mine.

[Plum]

Good plan. Anyone?

I have some analysis on the computer next to me (someone's using it) which I'd prefer to post before/with any hammer vote. Otherwise, you are, rather literally, asking for it . . .

Grurgl.

[Plum]

So it seems that the kill method is "stabbed". It has been the only kill method and it was used in both nights.

I thought Talitha was a KNIFE COP. Wouldnt it make sense that there would be a KNIFE MAFIA that kills be stabbing people.

Wait. Possibility - there are two Mafia group, only one of which has the ability NK. Dunno whether it's true or not, but when I think about it it does seem plausible. Even if it

is

true, I wouldn't be sure exacly how much we could make of it.

Slicey's case is most excellent.

I anxiously await Pear Bear's response.

QFT.

I second that.
Pear Bear, start alleviating everyone's suspicions (and state your own suspicions) and/or Roleclaim... soon.

Uh, no. Alleviate suspicions as best he can, yes. Roleclaim soon - not if he's not at L-2 or so. On principle I strongly dislike calls for what are, in my opinion, premature claims. Having said that, I did think PB was scummy yesterday, and I still think he may be scum, and I agree that trying to respond to the case was the sort of response necessary. After having read his defense, I find myself agreeing, to a degree, with DGB:

I read Pear Bear's post three times, because (1) quote tag failure, haha, and (2) I've never quite seen anything quite like it before.

If I coldly look at the content, it's scummy as hell.

But if I try to get down to what Pear Bear may actually be thinking and whether or not he's honest about it, I'm thinking that he genuinely means what he says, but we're programmed to interpret that sort of discourse as scummy.

The problem here is that trying to meta newb behavior always comes out inconclusive, and even if the newb in question is town the risk they pose as the game goes on . . . is always enough to give me a headache.

I have a vague stupid theory going around my head regarding Flameaxe scum and his response to the Santos claim, but it's hardly coherent and probably not helpful to the town at large. Suffice it to say that ScumA-Santos and ScumB-Flameaxe looks plausible over here.

Having said that - the Flameaxe wagon. I was planning to ask Flameaxe questions, but I'm now inclined to believe that that would be a waste of time and breath.

Analysis of the wagon: DGB wants to rattle the cage of potential Flameaxe-scum, for decent reasons, mostly related to his lurking and the suspicions of Tally and OGML having not been bussing and relative lack of other Flameaxe-poking.

Poke. Poke.

Sirdan adds a second vote, saying that he believes Tally investigated either Flameaxe or Azhrei and got a guilty. Myself, I'm truly uncertain what Tally did. I may apply myself to a reread trying to clarify that for myself a little. Ortolan also belives such, adding that he think's Tally's early Day 2 placeholder vote was likely a breadcrumb, which I hadn't thought much of. Also pretty plausible - looking it up, Azhrei's vote appears to be more of a pressure vote, trying to get Flameaxe to talk. Hmm? That's four votes. Then RBT comes in with one, mostly just agreeing with the breadcrumb. My gut doesn't like that too much. Also, didn't OGML try to push for RBT votes yesterday? Might not be a fruitful new direction, but there's potential here. Note to self.

Flameaxe gives a rather unhelpful response to that, which DGB calls a scum reaction. I'm inclined to agree that it's not pro-town. Then the whole "Jesterrific" behavior. As I believe I've stated before, selfvoting outside the random stage is very much anti-town and I do consider it a strong scumtell. Refusing multiple times to claim, asking for a hammer on himself? Still more scummy. In combination with Flameaxe's lurking, possible breadcrumb by Talitha-Cop, etc.

Vote: Flameaxe

That is the hammer, I think. My first hammer vote ever . Wow.