Alias Mafia Game Over!

[Myopia]

Yay for this finally game starting.

I can only assume terrorist goon is a bad guy even in this game. 3 scum dead on day 1? That has to be some kind of record if its the case?

Obviously IS poisoned PB. I presume that he could recruit AND kill?

Im an occasional Alias watcher but I have to say the names other than rambaldi met absolutely nothing to me.

[Myopia]

Agree. We seem to have/had at 3 least scum groups, islamic terrorists, a cult and a third group who most likely represent one of the "evil" groups from the show (sd6, covenant etc).

If the cult leader could recruit and kill in the same night then we probably have at most one cult minion left. If the cult leader could recruit or kill then thats probably it.

I wonder if pooky is going to keep posting interludes during the day.

[Myopia]

I can easily see IS as a cult recruiter with a kill simply playing as a SK.

While I do think it quite reasonable that if locus were scum he would knock of IS day 1 Im not quite prepared to take meta-game considerations that far into account at this point

[Myopia]

What? You want him to claim unless he says hes a power role in which case he shouldnt claim??

[Myopia]

I think its more his reaction to the wagon than anything else which is feeding it. He also seems reluctant to name claim and as hes gone so far as to identify himself as a power role (albiet a weakened one) I find that suspicous.

I also think assassin is scummy but so far hes seemed ultra scummy in *every* game Ive read that he has been in

[Myopia]

My thoughts at the end of the last day was the crola definately seemed fishy to me.

However we had such a long night Im going to re-read the posts surrounding machines' lynching before placing a vote.

My gut feeling is that sydney had a "investigate then kill if scum" cop/vig role and quite possible found scum night 1 as well.

Its interesting that pooky brought up the possibility of revival right after she died...

[Myopia]

I was going to vote for crola but I this is just too much.

I just dont buy it that MOS reasonably thought that neongray was at risk of modkill in pointing out machines mistake with his "modquote". She was lightyears away from it and I think you knew that.

The only reasoning I can give to this is that your trying to cover up from the comments that you were derailing matchines bandwagon by tying to give a "higher purpose" to your posts.

Your playing way too dumb with your statement that you didnt see why machine must have been lying. To whit you appear to assert neongray was at risk of modkill when machine *wasnt*.

Youve done exactly the same thing in other games where youve been scum.

mastermind of sin

[Myopia]

missed out the most important part

vote mastermind of sin

[Myopia]

The icepick killer is having an annoyingly accurate time taking out our cops.

I cant quite reconcile our killing groups and our methods.

Apart from IS and locus's kill the only real killing groups I can identify are the alliance and the icepick killer

Working on the assumption that the icepick killer is an SK (which is of course not clear) its difficult to see what kills to date where pulled of by the terrorists. They cant blow people up because coron was a terrorist and died that way. Course they might be all dead now having lost 3 members but it begs the question what were they doing if they werent killing people.

[Myopia]

Prior to MOS leaping out with his "hey im mafia tshirt" I was concentrating on the dybeck vs crola issue. I remember thinking crola seemed very scummy but to be fair I need to go and have a re-read.

I also thought it highly likely sydney was killed by the alliance.

My point about killing methods was that out of all the kills weve had I just couldnt point to a single one that I thought felt right to be the work of the terrorists.

Peacebringer(Terrorist Goon, poisoned Night One) - This was IS
Coron(Terrorist Goon, Blown up Night One) - Cant be terrorists he is one, probably alliance
InternetStranger(Cult Leader, stabbed to death with an icepick Night One) - Icepick killer
Kwjibo(Terrorist Goon, killed night two) - killed by locus with dramatic licence
Locus Cosecant(Sydney Bristow, CIA agent, killed night two) - alliance (how would a terrorist know sydney personally)
Dranko20(Judy Barnett, Cop, stabbed to death with an icepick Night 2) - Icepick killer
SSF352(Edward Brazzel, Cop, stabbed to death with an icepick Night 3) - Icepick killer

Now as stated its likely they are all gone now but what were they doing for 3 nights?

[Myopia]

Agree with Seol as to the statements of alignment.

I dont necessarily think irina is bad. Her alignment is pretty grey from the show. Id find it more likely she has her own agenda.

Can someone explain the dybeck wagon. As I recall it started because he was to eager to go after crola?

[Myopia]

Bold claim but dybeck you need to clear up the inconsistencies if we are to believe you.

You said you had an artifact but it was stolen by a thief? When did this happen? You say you have artifacts with an associate? Again was this in game or was it back story?

You also need to be rather convincing about this:

Wow! Daykills!

What's Irina? Good or bad?

I think we need to discuss more whether we want him to out sark as well.

[Myopia]

Its easy enough to get dybeck to give us sark on threat of lynch. If he doesnt its because hes scum not wanting to give us a partner. If he lies he gets caught out and lynched.

The question is whether we want him to give us sark.

Logically the answer is yes if hes scum. We get a partner or have a more certain lynch (because he refuses to comply or lies).

Perhaps not if he his telling the truth. We kill one to confirm the other and we just provide the mafia with a target.

At this point Im tending to believe he is irina. Its just whether he is telling the truth or not and whether he can answer all the queries above satisfactorily.

[Myopia]

Thats fair.

Bit disappointing though - had a bet with myself you were sark given your haste in suggesting the identity be kept hidden.

Have to say Im thinking more and more dybeck is scum. I read davidangelsummers posts to try and work out why on earth someone would day kill him and found very little but yesterdays FOS on dybeck.

Just another thing for the pile Dybeck. Why did david FOS you if he was your frontman?

[Myopia]

Without a counterclaim, I think seol's claim is about as strong as it gets. If would be a fairly weird alias game without jack bristow or with a scum jack.

Anything relevant from your other investigations your prepared to tell us seol?

vote talitha

better come up with something good tally.

Id stay quiet LML unless you have a strong reason to claim now.

I re-read neongreys posts and im at a bit of a quandery as to why she was targeted. She really didnt post at all day 3.

Lastly I strongly suspect that dybeck was telling the truth about sark. Why would he make it up? It certainly didnt add any credability to his claim indeed it weakened it. Simple lies are always the best, in life and on the internet .

In fact Im tempted to argue that based on the possibility that dybeck was telling the truth about the way irina's cadre worked, we should have seol put the final vote on our lynches for the time being. It also raised my suspicions a bit in deadbart who really leapt from nowhere to lynch dybeck yesterday (although to be fair there is no evidence today that anything came of that).

[Myopia]

Claim please talitha?

Another issue is last night was the first night we didnt get a kill from the icepick dude. Cant see how lynching irina would have changed much there so I guess we can make a reasonable assumption that they are still around but was either blocked or doc protected (maybe halfpint guessed well).

[Myopia]

Waiting for seol's results but something seems wrong with our analysis to date.

With the sk dead and a dead covenant yesterday thats 6 killing groups total! Out of the 2 kills last night we also have a new method with the heart being ripped out thing. Thats just too many bad guys.

Also we may still at least have a covenant and alliance GF left so we cant be 100% sure of Seol confirming innocents either.

Weve had such a long night im going to have a re-read. My biggest suspicion coming into today was probably crola but i thats been sorted out. He said straight out that he had possession of a rambaldi artifact and who ever killed him may have been after that.

Importantly its day 5 and we really have no clue how the artifacts fit into the game. Any thoughts? My role doesnt refer to rambaldi in any way whatsoever.

[Myopia]

Im a bit leery about this. Not because I dont think that seol is pro-town but merely because Im a bit uncertain about putting the game in his hands which is effectively what he is asking for.

"I think will help us sew up the game" is a little bit equivocal for my tastes.

Seol I dont doubt your abilities. Tell me youve thought hard about this and it has reasonable prospects of delivering us all the remaining scum.

Particularly with several people potentially holding rambaldi artifacts that the scum are most likely after people may well have good reasons not to want to claim.

[Myopia]

Not saying he is not jack bristow and pro-town just that I hope he knows what he is doing.

If its done I agree seol should pick the order. He may or may not want to state his confirmed innocent first.

[Myopia]

Ok lets do it.

[Myopia]

Well of the players who havent said anything it seems that shrademan has posted once this game and nanook has never posted!

Serious modprods please!

Do we proceed with the claims or wait?

[Myopia]

David Angel Summers was the only one day killed.

Thrawn you have some 'splaining to do.

And FOS LML for giving him an "out" rather than putting him on the spot to explain such a suspicious mistake.

[Myopia]

Well Im not sure if I can see nanook posting given he hasnt so far. So I think we have to come back to him or his replacement.

I am Dr. Svimati Masivi M.D. I work as a standard doctor.

My choices.

N1: locus
N2: seol (I was getting serious cop vibes at this point)
N3: seol
N4: crola (thought he was suspicous but with his talk about having an "important role" I thought he would be targeted if he wasnt scum)
N5: seol (with his cop claim)

My reluctance to claim should be obvious as Im quite clearly dead tonight.

[Myopia]

Marshall is the bumbling good natured tech genius who starts of working for the evil sd6 (which he doesnt know is evil). He is recruited by the cia when sd6 is disbanded and is a good friend of sydneys.

I find it extremely unlikely he would be evil if hes in the game (which isnt a certainty like sydney or jack bristow but is certainly likely). Hes by far the least morally unambiguous person in the show.

[Myopia]

ugh could have claimed first.............

[Myopia]

Can we prod / replace all the 3 please mod as we really arent going anywhere until we hear from them.

[Myopia]

Well I think that sloan is highly likely to both be in the game and be evil.

[Myopia]

I will respond more when I have more time.

But:

- we know that whoever put the final lynch on Mos now has an artifact (as his holding was confirmed in the very first mod scene);

- ill be protecting thrawn at this stage unless someone gives me a very good reason not to (amusing that ive been protecting seol all this time without him needing it);

- im finding the cia claim and generic townie claim highly suspect at this point - i think one is sloan;

- as for who i am frankly I was unable to find out anything out about myself at all - i was a little worried that would become relevant at claim time but fortunately it seems uncessary.

I think we need to discuss how we can amass the rambaldi artifacts. Do we know how many there are in total? The only ones im really sure about are Mos's and crola. Dybeck seemed to claim that he had one prior to the game but lost it.

[Myopia]

Seol, I'm very sorry to say this out loud, but I do not feel comfortable being protected by someone that is not within our CIA circle.

Fair enough.

I will leave the protection issue up for you guys to resolve.

If seol protects you, you protect him (hmm cross-protection within the mason group does seem fairly unbalanced) and I protect thrawn then im the odd one out of course.

I think that Sloan is the alliance GF and may well have an investigative immunity. Accordingly I think your right not to trust me 100% (unless seol can verify a previous protect). However I think we have quite a few shady claims to deal with first.

Not buying the angry rebuttal brian. If seol is lying then so is LML and thrawn AND 3 of the most likely characters to be in the game are missing.
Im reasonably convinced your scum after that which is ironic given your point that there are other presumably non-mason cia agents, we had a cia cop as well.

As for the claims:

Thrawn: CIA mason w/ used Dayvig, Vaughn
Seol: CIA mason with protect, dayprotect, and investigate(sane), Jack
LML: CIA mason, Marshall

Happy with the mason claim at this point. Not sure why seol has a dayprotect power as only his co-mason is a revealed player with a day kill.

Can you indicate why you are so sure that brian cant be cia or he would be in your mason group. Is it implied by your role?

Brian McQueso: CIA non-mason

Highly suspicious.

Assasin: Basic Townie, no rolename

I just dont buy this and if you are scum its the most apathetic claim ever. If Brian is lynched I think assasin should be role blocked by pie.

Pie_is_Good: Roleblocker, no name

Not particularly happy with this but neongrey was generic and its better than assassins.

Myopia: Doctor, Dr. Svimati Masivi M.D.

Clearly innocent

Deadbart: Artifact Searcher, FBI Assistant Director Kendall

Seems reasonable.

Thok: Mrs Sloan

Seems reasonable but could also be a very clever claim by sloan.

Nanook: Dr Lee thief

Highly suspicious. Why did you get nothing when you searched pie?

A last issue. Its plainly obvious where at least one of the artifacts is on publicly available information. Should we talk about this? If I can work it out with absolutely no knowledge about rambaldi artifacts at all surely the scum can too.

[Myopia]

Circumstantial evidence but brian's predecessor was also one of the very few people who voted for someone other than machine (the alliance goon) when he was lynched.

[Myopia]

As ive said ive been unable to find me via google or alias fan site.

[Myopia]

Thrawn I cut and pasted the spelling out of my role pm specifically because it is so hard to spell.

I couldnt find me on any of the cast lists for the earlier seasons (and im reasonably familiar with the later ones).

[Myopia]

Ugh. There's

nothing

on google for the name, with or without alias attached. In fact, there's nothing with either part of the name. Is there some explanation about who you are attached to your role that you could paraphrase, Myopia?

Ive literally given you everything in my pm, paraphrased so I dont get mod killed

I have no description of my role at all simply my function and that I win with the town.

It is a bit weird. When I couldnt find myself I figured if I ended up coming out (which I always wanted to avoid obviously) someone would go "oh I know that guy he was from episode x".

I cant explain it. I cant find anything either. All I can say is:

- ive been investigated and found innocent so if im scum im likely sloan with an investigative immunity (and thok therefore might be able to verify that im not sloan tonight if i live);

- what are the chances of only having 1 doctor in this game (although as I type this we do seem to have a lot of cia protection roles as well);

- if I were scum with any knowledge of the show at all I would have at least fake claimed an actual known role

- I may well die tonight and render any argument moot.

As for the protection issue Ill protect thrawn. Im not fully convinced that exchanging a doctor for a mason is neccessarily the most optimal play but I didnt really expect to live after claiming anyway.

As for the rambaldi issue thrawn youve proven my point. I had no idea there were 7 artifacts.

My concern in respect of that is essentially in a traditional game I think the town is in a good position. With co-masons able to protect each other we can hardly lose. However that is obviously unbalanced and what its making me think is that the scum may not have a traditional win condition. Maybe they simply win if they can amass enough artifacts? Given that possibility we can just focus on trying to win a traditional game.

What seems unclear is how artifacts are passed on. Its been stated that the last person to place a lynching vote gets the artifact (which explains a lot of the play over the last few days and in particular dybecks's crap about his group gettting extra abilities if they lynch scum). Presumably if someone is night killed the killer gets any artifacts they have as well. But can people transfer artifacts at night??

Im not sure about any of this but we should at least consider the possibility
that we need to be protecting (or lynching as the case may be) the people with artifacts.

I also still think that the scum may have a potential daykiller (or bristow's ability seems useless) that I think we need to take into account. We probably dont want to have one pro-town player amas artifacts only to have them all stolen in one false swoop. Why not give them to seol rather than lml?


shouldnt have cut and pasted my name because of the layour

[Myopia]

Block nanook or assassin, whichever you find scummier.

[Myopia]

While I think of it dont you have another innocent result seol? Is there a reason to keep it to yourself at this point?

[Myopia]

When he claimed seol said he had an unrevealed investigation on an innocent.

He said that he didnt think it beneficial to reveal it at that stage.

Now we have mass-claimed. Seol hasnt mentioned the investigation again.

Perhaps it was poorly put but the first question was directed toward whether that information is still valid (as that person might now be dead). The second was based on an assumption that it was.

Either way it was nagging me and as ive said i cant see any reason for it to be kept hidden at this point.

[Myopia]

My only issue is that if the lynchee has an artifact then it ttansfers prior to night and is then subject to loss during the night while if its acquired during night it probably isnt. Round about way of saying we should vig the person most likely to have an artifact we want.

Otherwise Im happy to lynch/vi brian and nanook. I think if so pie should block assassin as he is the next scummiest to me.

[Myopia]

I find the existence of a huge masonry unbalancing as well.

But I dont believe that bristow, vaughn and marshall are anti-town and from their posts it was made clear that cia agents were part of the masonry.

Brian hasnt addressed that point and I dont think he can.

I think the unbalanced masonry then is support for my theory that the scum have other victory conditions than simply being the last ones left.

Added to that the simple fact is that I think we have 1-2 scum left and weak claims by brian (given the masonry's comments), nanook (given hes claimed pychopathic torturer) and assassin (claimed nothing at all).

I think theres excellent prospects at least 2 of those 3 are scum. We can cover all three by vote/vig/block.

Without any knowledge as to who has what artifact I think the best vote is the one most likely to be scum.

vote brian

[Myopia]

Wow. Two dead scum and we are still playing.

Assuming brian was vigged but thok has me perplexed. Unless someone wants to own up to something obviously our remaining scum (covenant gf?) or sloan killed thok. Would seem most likely that sloan believed thok's claim and thought it was a possible threat.

I stand by my we have too many bad groups for this few kills assessment. Game-wide we seem to have not nearly enough kills given the number of people with an apparent nightkill. Guess we will only find out why with the write up.

Aside from our 3 masons we have:
- me claiming doc we cant find;
- assassin claiming generic;
- pie claiming blocker;
- deabart claiming fbi agent.

With masons capable of protecting each other we cant lose if the win condition is traditional. As stated though I think we need to consider whether the baddies can win by getting artifacts as well.

I think the time may have come to indicate what the situation is with the artifacts (or at least the masonry can tell us how many they have between them). We've got more than enough people to protect the artifact carriers. Want to hear from the masonry on that.

Pending an investigation I think my vote today is for assassin.

[Myopia]

Its most likely the covenant godfather.

While Ill certainly be interested if seol got a guilty Im not sure how far we can trust innocent results at this point with likely only a gf left (and that includes me).

Thinking about it a little more and Im thinking our likely last scum is pie not assassin.

Why:

- thok/covenant goon appears to be our only unaccounted for kill;

- the only people who could have killed him were brian/sloan or our last scum;

- given our last scum appears to be the covenant gf or at least covenant it seems highly unlikely to say the least they bumped of thok which also supports the theory that its only brian/sloan who would have wanted thok dead with his claim of mrs sloan;

- pie confimed just prior to night that he was blocking brian;

- given its seems highly likely that brian did perform a kill its seems equally likely that pie was lying.

[Myopia]

Good point but why didnt the description state "covenant" godfather.

Also from the show im really struggling to see irina could be covenant. She always seemed to be her own faction.

Lastly to address pies point if everyone left is "good" then where are all the artifacts? Surely the masonry would have the majority in their hands by now (because if none of the remaining non-mason players are evil then they have no capacity to get artifacts). Also who killed thok if everyone is good? We are out of vigs right?

vote pie

[Myopia]

I believe thats one short of lynch? We certainly should not lynch pie until we've heard from everyone.

[Myopia]

Bump.

I cant see us getting anywhere without a replacment for seol.

[Myopia]

Im happy to die in the order youve suggested.

But I dont agree with your assessment.

I dont see the logic in there being 2 four man mafia groups and a 2 man. In particular it assumed that there is no covenant GF. Every other mafia group does have a GF and I think its far far more likely that we had a 4 man terrorist group and 2 3 man groups with a GF for each.

Ill go with the vote but with a covenant GF then the scum i think is pie and they should be vigged.

assassin

Also im unexpectantly on holidays for a week and wont have net access in that time. Mod please replace me if you deem fit.

[Myopia]

vote assassin

[Myopia]

Im sorry simply missed it. And ive been the one who first argued that the masonry should be providing the lynching vote.

[Myopia]

Feeling a bit uneasy - we are still playing and that was a giant night.

Can we at least get things out in the open before the end.

Why dont the masonry have all the artifacts now??? Pie shouldnt have any (if he is town). I dont have any.

Doesnt make a lot of sense but I just cant see the masonry being scummy.

Agree with LML. We seem to be crusing lately but I dont think ive seen a game with more bad guys. If the masonry went down early it would have been a slaughter.

[Myopia]

Thinking about it and im still confused.

I cant see how we are still playing if we are all good guys. I dont see why the masonry dont have all the artifacts (thrawn in particular should have picked up at least 2 from deadbart).

Why wouldnt the gm take us to endgame if it was just a matter of handing artifacts around amongst the masonry??

Unless Im mistaken we are also still missing a covenant gf?!?!?

No kills last night which seems to confirm pie although i guess we could have had kills neutralised by protections (assume 2 of the masonry protected each other and i protected thrawn again).

There seem to be 3 possibilities:
- pie is scum
- im scum
- one (or more i suppose) of the masonry are scum (as bizarre as having one of jack bristow, vaughn or marshall scum would be).

Now all the masonry cant be scum or the game would have ended.

It sounds like with a day kill ordered on pie we will soon find out his alignment.

I accept Ill be lynched (as even though i know im innocent im more likely to be scum objectively than one of the masons).

So the town may win today by killing pie and/or lynching me.

Whats the situation though if we go to night with only the 3 masons left? Have you guys even considered that possibility?

[Myopia]

Hello?

Can we wrap this game up guys. Theres not a lot to do.

Mod perhaps a note to the players who havent posted that the day has started? It was a particularly long night.

[Myopia]

We understand

[Myopia]

Okay the 3 masons left and me. The game is still going.

Now of course Im next to die. Im cool with that.

I would however like to discuss the things I raised above first. I went all the way back to my pm and is says that I win with the town. As stated I would have assumed that I would have won by now if there were no bad guys left.

Easy of course for me to say but im about to be verified in death.

So guys whats happening? Why the giant night? Why dont you have enough artifacts to ressurect locus? What are you guys going to do if we go to night and we are STILL playing?

[Myopia]

Im just wasting my time. You guys sort it out then.

vote myopia

[Myopia]

Even pooky cant remember my name....

[Myopia]

I did enjoy this game but quite frankly it was ridiculous.

The "town" (for what it was worth) did about as well as it could reasonably do (eliminate the cult leader early, eliminate the terrorists without loss, maintain the masonry without loss) and still had exactly zero prospects of ever winning.

The prospect of an evil masonry became more and more likely toward the end but the number of bad guys was already ridiculous. Marshall as the covenant GF? Cute of course. But after playing a game for a couple of months Id prefer a remote resemblance to game balance to cute.

What really annoys me though is that I wasnt a generic doctor. You gave me a name. A name that neither myself or anyone else could even find. How that didnt get me killed I have no idea. A bit of attention to a detail like that is kind of important.

As I said I did have fun but the town players in this game were window dressing.

[Myopia]

Not to belabour the point (ah well actually I am) but on reflection the town hit 6 from 7 lynches with the last being me in the 3 masonry and me endgame!!!