Martyr Mafia - Game Over

[PieIsPopcorn]

Heya there, Gurgi hasn't announced it yet, but I'm the replacement for Double A. I've already read the thread once, but I'll reread, and look for good God candidates. Don't listen to DGB, Agnostics should still have a chance at winning this, we just have to reach a consensus.

I relatively agree with the plan of having Jebus lead the lynch if we don't agree on a good target and deadline is approaching. My only complaint is that it feels like a good chunk of pressure to put on one person, which could easily lead to a mislynch. The fact that we have a backup plan does not mean that agnostics shouldn't have their suspicions be backed up by detailed cases. Not only with that help convince fellow agnostics, it will also help Jebus reach a full decision.

[PieIsPopcorn]

(

Unvote

, just in case AA voted.)

These players know about Jebus's full-claim, and had absolutely no reason to not kill him (Assuming no elaborate WIFOM tactic): SilverPhoenix, al_kohaulec, ortolan, X, mykonian, Jebus (LOL), ZSW, MafiaSSK. And, to a lesser extent, hp [leaves].
None of these players are God. hp [leaves] is the only exception, but if hp was God and knew that Jebus wasn't a Cult Leader, I'm pretty sure that he would have still killed him. In addition, I think that Bloodmoney would have killed Jebus N1, but that is more of a hunch than anything based on data. Somebody would have to provide a good case on hp before I move her to the other column.

DrippingGoofball

: Now, DGB definately knew that Jebus full-claimed, so there could definately be objections for me not putting her up on the list, and I agree that the chance that she is God is EXTREMELY slim. However this is an extremely weak chance that she is deliberately not killing in order to stay in the game, because she knows that she'll be written off as clear, there are players that she wants to stay with in the game, or just to be wacky. I find this extremely unlikely, due to the fact that I doubt that the whackiness would go so far as to have her deliberately fulfilling her win condition, especially with MafiaScum's "Play to Win" rule.

The only thing that worries me is how obviously that DGB seems to be claiming CL, and nobody is jumping on it. That could be because the other cult doesn't want to be blantly identified, or it could be because she's God.

Overall though, DGB is

extremely unlikely to be God

.

Populartajo

: His posts radiate genuine frustration to me. I really dislike players that don't play to their current win condition (It feels like a gross violation of the "Play to Win" clause, as you are playing to win with a seperate condition that may or may not occur in the first play), but I can't see you playing this gambit as God. In addition, you dismiss the bandwagon on me, something I can't see God doing. My only problem is that your posts have never been particularly high in content, and you often seem to be following other players. I can see God doing this. It is fortuitous for God to go with the flow, as god has no motivation to hunt in any sense. His knows who the CLs are, so he knows who he needs to stop from lynching eachother. He knows who God is, so he doesn't have to worry about God dying.

Overall though, as a result of his recent play, I find populartajo to be

unlikely to be God

pacman281292

:

Suspected Jebus after the N claim, but he did not vote him, just FOSed. In his analysis post, he didn't provide many useful reads, just stated that DGB and zwet were cult (Which is true), and complained about people lurking. He said that more was forcoming, but it never did. He was extremely lurky at the beginning of the game, posting little content and only became more active after he came under pressure because of it.

However, I find his anger at zwet's pushing of my replees' lynch to be genuine, if his FOS is a little misplaced. He also is against my lynch, simply something I still don't see God doing, although he's the second candidate to do so, so it's become more of a null-tell. However, he seems to have seriously provided content to the game, and since he was called out on it, has been acting severely pro-agnostic. (I find it hard to say pro-town when almost half the town is cult/God).

Regardless, I find pacman

relatively unlikely to be God

.

Indigo Heron

: Extremely lurky throughout, has provided content, but not an exceedingly large amount. At the beginning he contributed much more, and now just seems to be coasting. All this behavior fits God, trying to slip under the radar, or a townie who isn't really trying. He could be a lazy agnostic, could be God. Until he provides more content, it's relatively hard to tell.

I find Heron

Likely to be God

Mask man/Alvinz95

: He begins by stating that starting to play cultist early is better than playing agnostic, and that we shouldn't try to find God. He continues to try and push apathy to lynching God, stating that the town is probably screwed anyway. He then strawmans Jebus, adding in statements that are clearly not there. Lurks for a while, apologizes for his lurking, is suspicious of Jebus throughout. He provides some content, but not a particularly enormous amount. He criticizes DGB for utilizing the too townie policy, and then states that Jebus was "Trying too hard to seem townie".

His contribution devolves into 1-3 line posts, and yet he feels that it's appropiate to criticize tajo for his "I'll contribute later" post. He starts to state suspicions (Such as "zwet+jebus cult", and then doesn't back them up with evidence from the thread.) States that he finds everybody to be scummy. (That is a sign of paranoia. Scum are far more likely to either be paranoid, because they know that the majority is against them, or pretend to be paranoid, as they think that townies are more likely to be.)

He active lurks, and doesn't seem to be paying a great deal of intention. He multiple times talks of a Christian recruit, despite the fact that qwints claimed his recruit- Jebus. Before he disappears he makes a summary post that is full of IIoA. And he posts this- "did he make an epic shit on the agnostics sidewalk that I didn't notice, that was soooo obv it didn't need explaination?" Is it just me, or does it sound like he's talking about an outside group?

Then Alvinz posts a couple one-liners, jumps onto my wagon, and shows rather obviously (IMO) feigned ignorance about the mechanics of the game ("There's a cult for every god?").

I feel that Alvinz/Mask man is

extremely likely to be God

Looker/Zakeri

: Admits to have been tunneling on Jebus in the early-game, as he thought that he was reduced to random voting when the debate regarding Jebus ended. It is revealed, however, that he stopped pressuring Jesus for a rather silly reason (That he felt that Jebus's questioning did not have an end result in mind.) He states that he was hoping to get reactions through the RVS, and then contradicts this idea in a later statement. Says that she's going to reread, and then backs off on it. Gives an "analysis" of four different players, which consists of just quotes and judgements, which amounts to a lot of IIoA. Uses WIFOM to try and get EA off him. (NOTE: EA dies that night.)

States that he's surprised that he wasn't lynched D1. Now this is a non-Godtell, as since the 3 CLs wouldn't want them lynched, there's no reason why they would be lynched D1. Still rather scummy though. Another slight non-Godtell is the fact that supposedly Jebus couldn't have been Neitzche because God didn't kill him, and yet knew that he couldn't be recruited. God knew who the CLs were, so it's likely that God would have killed him to be sure. Yet, Jebus remained alive.

Looker has just been a lurker. Hasn't provided any content, despite stating that he is reading the thread. Pretty God-like, but he hasn't made commitment for or against the AA wagon, or any wagon for that matter. I'd say that alvinz's active lurking is more scummy than Looker's lurking.

Looker's behavior is extremely scummy, and Zakeri is pretty scummy, but I find Mask man worse.

Nonetheless, I find Zakeri

Pretty likely to be God

Mask man being God explains why Jebus survived two nights (Mask man thought that there was a Christian recruit), and has been a tad more scummy than Looker/Zakeri, IMO.

Vote: Alvinz95

[PieIsPopcorn]

Good point Jahudo. Why the vote for DGB zakeri?

vote: zakeri

This post by qwints is interesting, in that he enters the bandwagon on zakeri. He was the 6th vote on the wagon. Now for a man who later claims to have two win conditions (Surviving himself, and helping God survive.) I can't see him being so late on a Godwagon. If he wanted to distance, I'd expect that he'd get on early and off early. This increases my belief that Zakeri is, in fact not God.

DGB's post can be interpreted 2-3 ways.

1. I'm directly on the right track (IE- Alvinz is God) and she's trying to WIFOM us off it.

2. I'm not directly on the right track, but I'm close (IE- Zakeri/Indigo is God), and she wants us to believe #1.

3. I'm not even close to being on the right track, but DGB wants to reward me for the effort I put into Godhunting.

Care to tell us which it is DGB?

I'll analyze al's post later. Time for school.

[PieIsPopcorn]

Note how popcornscum dodged my entire read on his godhood.

... I was hoping that you'd point this out- I want to reveal something on the wagon on DA. It's utter bull. First, from a logical standpoint- God isn't a particularly complicated role. You kill Neitzche, and win. You can argue that Double A is a new player, and was completely ignorant of the setup. However, this is far from rocket science.

1. Double A is looking for Neitzche.

2. Jebus claims Neitzche.

3. Double A kills somebody completely unrelated to his target.

Now, you could argue that #1 is invalid. However, let's assume that Double A wasn't aware that he should kill Neitzche. (Despite the fact that the claim was obviously important, considering that everybody was demanding that he prove it, and was voting him until he did.) In addition, not only would Double A have had to ignore the front page which explains that he was to kill Neitzche to win, he would also have to ignore his own ROLE PM. Now, you MIGHT be able to argue that that was possible, if God kills weren't being sent in! So he knew that his role PM stated that he needed to kill players, yet he didn't understand that he needed to kill Neitzche? See how much you have to reach in order to believe the AA case?

If you argue that #1 is valid, but claim that idiocy (absolutely no offense meant to AA if you are reading this, you certainly don't seem to be a complete moron, just from reading your posts.) or newbieness would have made #3 seem perfectly logical to him: Why in the world would he kill Adel? Adel seemed to not be a significant threat to him at that point in time. And before you argue WIFOM- he was sophisticated enough in the game to know how to create nightkills that would direct suspicion away from him, but not experienced enough to understand that he needed to kill N?


Although his post regarding killing you had threatening connotations, he has a point. If his was as newbish as you say, and that's why he didn't kill Jebus, he should have killed you, since you were the main person pushing for his lynch. It just doesn't add up.


Now, let's talk about your "read" directly.

Let's first go back to yesterday. You first claim that HP is god.

WHADDAYOUMEAN, logic? It's pretty clear that hp is god.

You then claim that Jebus is God.

(On the origin of Jebus's suspicions.)

Because he's nervous godscum.

You then claim that Mykonian is second for "God-tells" that you don't mention.

Kill mykonian. He's right after you for godtells. DON'T KILL ADEL, HE'S PROBABLY A CULT LEADER

Later, we finally get a case on AA.

I'm seeing DoubleA as god at the moment. First, our god makes the mistake of not quickkilling our nietzsche for a quick win, which is something only someone inexperienced and unsure about the roles would do.

You completely ignore the fact that some people missed that Jebus claimed. The fact that you ignore/miss this makes me even more certain that God is among this group.

Then, he comes up today with a revote on Jebus for the reason that "oh, god's son is scum" He's clearly trying to kill Jebus, but at the same time is confused as to his powers, all of which perfectly fits DoubleA.

This makes absolutely no sense, and in fact, allows me to prove that AA IS NOT GOD.

Let's look at the facts.

1. You claim that AA is ignorant of his powers.
2. You claim that AA knows that he wants Jebus to be killed.
3. There has been a Godkill each night.

If AA is God, 1-2 completely contradict #3. If AA is God, knows that he can kill, and knows that he wants Jebus dead,

why on earth wouldn't he kill Jebus?

Ergo, AA wa not God. Thank you for your help, Zwet.

Ah, and let's not forget that DGB, who you thought was cult, comes back with this beautiful piece.

COMMENTS ON DOUBLEA PLEASE

Sure.

unvote, vote: DoubleA

I like this post.

You genuinely believe that somebody you feel is cult-

Exactly. I think dGB is cult.

I love how DGB is trying to disregard mykonian's godness tells by flittering out at another player we're not even discussing.

Would then bus God? That makes absolutely no sense. Now, this argument is the weakest out of all of mine, because opinions do change. And you later state this-

It's not obvious that DGB is culted.

Later, meaning, 4 days, without really explaining what caused this change...

If you want me to refute more, let me know.

However, I think I have adequately proven that your "case" against AA is absolutely asinine, and that AA is in fact extremely unlikely to be God.

[PieIsPopcorn]

NONONO DIE CULTS DIE

Just another reason to add to your many unpredictable statements.

vote:zwet

'kay, Indigo is cult or God. The question is- which one? I'd think that God would save himself for the hammer, therefore not drawing attention to himself by jumping on such an obvCult wagon. Therefore, Indigo is more likely to be a cultist. Therefore, considering the wagon on HP yesterday led by at least a couple cultists, either Zakeri or Alvinz is in fact God, IMO.

Care to tell us which it is DGB?

Just stop the nonsense. Agnostics have lost. You just need to find yourself a nice cult. I'm pretty sure that you will, tonight. So you should start working on the wincon you'll have tomorrow.

DGB, you could very well be right, considering that I haven't done the mathematics (And I might later tonight, I find the time.) But I refuse to give up. Mafia is about trying your hardest, catching the scum, and (hopefully) lynching them. If you can't do that, then hey, at least you put in effort. I refuse to play for a wincon that I do not have yet, and, if for whatever reason I'm not culted, I may never have. This is a blatant attempt to both lower Agnostic morale, and have them jump onto cult-leaded wagons. I for one, am having no part of it. My win condition is to lynch God, and for now, I'm going to go on trying to lynch God.

(Which does make it slightly more likely that Indigo just took the bait, but the probability is extremely slim.)

STOP VOTING ZWET U SLACKERS HE IS CULT

Cultists tend to be pretty stubborn. What do you want them to do, lynch God? The fact that you are choosing to stay away from the cult-based wagon (Worse: Outright criticizing it.) makes me even more certain that you are agnostic.

In other news...
whoa...
Pretty good analysis. I don't understand well the MM part, but I think it's more my limited english skills than a weird statement.

Meh, it could also be a result of the fact that my analysis is notes about MM thrown together. Perhaps poptajo or Al could explain the case more clearly. Or I might be able to if I get some time later. Got some homework I need to do, but this game keeps pulling me back in.

omg, is this guy called pieis(something)?

LOL, I'm not a PieIsGood alt, if that's what you're getting at. It was an inside joke from another forum that I chose to adopt as my screename on all sites.

PieIsGenius. It's imperative that his win condition be changed *wink, wink*

As long as if yours DGB. I've heard that the other cult forbids good hygene for religious reasons. And alpacas are awesome.

[PieIsPopcorn]

Also, you don't seem to put much focus on Double A until after PiP comes in attacking Alvinz and analysing all players. Also, in the post that you voted him in, it looked like your prime reason was "You never explained why

you're

not god." Which is a horribly bad reason to vote somebody. Show me some evidence.

This is not true. Double A seemed a good candidate for being God before being replaced, so there is the obvious carry-over effect of his predecessor.

Which I obviously can't defend very well. However, I do understand how Double A's admittedly scummy behavior is a mark against my record.

Plus I didn't like him going into lengthy analysis of every player but with the presumption he wasn't a target somehow.

To begin with, the current wagon was blatantly opportunistic and full of people that I found to be obv-cultists. To make matters worse, I'm a teenager. I have a bedtime. I spent far too much time analyzing other players, to create another lengthy post criticizing the bandwagon at the moment. The moment that the fact that I didn't address the case on me was brought up, I did address it. In addition, an analysis on players whom I don't know the alignment to is completely different to discussion of the case against AA/Me, since I know my own alignment. As a result, they don't belong in the same post, and it feels like if I had addressed them it the same post, it would just clutter the analysis as a result.

A whole bunch of people immediately say how good his analysis is but don't take into account whether he himself may still be God (suggests cult-rallying).

... I don't see any of these players saying that I can't be God because I posted a good analysis. Both Tajo and Al were against my lynch before I replaced in. Pacman also hated the zwet case. Also, the cults don't really need to be rallied. The cults can just follow their leaders/fellow cultists at this point.

I want MOAR pieispopcorn votes.

I can now dig.

Unvote vote Pip

Just like this.

It's the agnostics that need to be rallied at this point, because we're insanely close to being in the minority.

And we have DGB's constant cracks about recruiting him- I suspect an ulterior motive.

DGB's post can be interpreted 2-3 ways.

1. I'm directly on the right track (IE- Alvinz is God) and she's trying to WIFOM us off it.

2. I'm not directly on the right track, but I'm close (IE- Zakeri/Indigo is God), and she wants us to believe #1.

3. I'm not even close to being on the right track, but DGB wants to reward me for the effort I put into Godhunting.

Care to tell us which it is DGB?

I'll analyze al's post later. Time for school.

And I don't like this because it states the obvious while still carrying the presumption he isn't God.

... Yeah, you're right. These options are my personal thoughts on the issue. Since I know my role, and that it isn't God, I didn't include that option when I probably should have. However I fail to see why I shouldn't provide my perspective on a post, even if it's "self-evident" to you.

[PieIsPopcorn]

I admit I like PIP's analysis in 1543 and I had _exactly_ the same thoughts on DGB: I found her obvious cult-claims almost godlike but this is tempered by knowing she's way, way, way too intelligent not to have killed Jebus for the win, even if she's crazy enough to want to stay in the game despite being able to win instantly.

Then Alvinz posts a couple one-liners, jumps onto my wagon, and shows rather obviously (IMO) feigned ignorance about the mechanics of the game ("There's a cult for every god?").

Bear in mind we're dealing with a God who failed to claim the free win. If he's God then I doubt this ignorance would be feigned.

Meh, I'd missed that he replaced into the game before the day ended. However, you continue to assume that the lack of God kill is a result of stupidity, rather than simply missing that Neitzche claimed God. Isn't it possible that alvinz simply wasn't aware of this fact?

BTW- If he is God, it's the other way around Orto. He would know he was the only God, and know the identity of the three CLs. Logicially he would not believe a statement like "There is a God for any cult."

You also haven't told us why you yourself aren't God PIP

Due to the difficulty of proving a negative, and the fact that as a replacement I can not provide explanations for the actions of my predecessor with absolute certainty, that is the worst reason to suspect somebody, especially at lylo.

1. You claim that AA is ignorant of his powers.
2. You claim that AA knows that he wants Jebus to be killed.
3. There has been a Godkill each night.

For all we know the mod could randomise it.

That is a possiblity, sure. Examining LG's mod meta, he never makes clear whether or not in such a circumstance he would randomize the kill or have there be no kill. (Although he always says YOU, as in the player, will submit the kill. He never states that there will be a kill if not submitted, which seems like something he would bring up if it was the case.) It seems to vary from mod to mod, but I find in my personal epxerience that there being no kill is more common.

In fact, it would be more convenient. As Gurgi would not only have to remove the CLs in the case of God not killing, it would be extremely unlikely that he would have the opposite policy for CLs and God. Therefore, since he was having to randomize the God kills, he would most likely also randomize the cultings. This would not only mean removing God, and members of the cult, it would also mean removing the CLs from the opposing cults from the randomizing process. Extremely inconvenient, to be sure.

And the kill itself- I find it rather unlikely that a randomized kill would just HAPPEN to hit Adel, one of the most talkative and persuasive players in the game at the moment. That looks so much more like an intentional kill to me that it's insane.

Now, this argument is far from definitive. COULD the kills be randomized? Sure. COULD the kill and cult selection utilize different methods if they fail? Sure. I find the latter relatively unlikely, just due to how overcomplicated the system would become. This is all based on how likely we find the modding method, and is therefore useless discussion in nature, since we are not the Mod. I personally find, as a result of the reasons I listed, the method that a kill isn't made more probable. If you don't, then you will not find the argument particularly persuasive. It all depends on information that can not be obtained by the town.

DGB's response to PIP, to pretend he is recruitable, as is DGB's interaction with tajo and tajo's suggestions PIP is obvtown.

Why in the world would cultists distance from, much less buddy up to, God on what amounts to lylo? That is utterly illogical. I also notice a curious pattern in some of your accusations, but more on that later.

I would like a PIP lynch very, very, very much

Vote: PieIsPopcorn

So, by this vote, you are stating that you find my godhood more likely than that of both Alvinz and Zakeri. And that you feel that obv-cult DGB and zwet would wagon God in a lylo situation.

Pie's last post does a good job of pointing out where I change my opinions, but a bad job at actually proving why my opinions are wrong. Your WIFOM analysis behind Double A's idiocy is complete bullshit.

All defenses are going to include WIFOM, simply because of the fact that I can't show you guys my role PM. (And even that, you could argue, isn't definitive proof of my alignment.) Aside from confirmed-town, it's hard to defend actions without using WIFOM to some degree, especially because of the fact that it's not me that was being attacked. It was somebody that I replaced. I am not that person, and can't read their mind, to be aware of exactly what they were thinking, or their ability at comprehending abilities or role pms that they didn't even have.

(Blargh, I didn't mean to make this two posts. My apologies, guys.)

[PieIsPopcorn]

Meh.

Unvote, Vote: zwetschenwasser

Woah, this is extremely revelating, yet disturbing. Either Zwet is not a CL, as I have anticipated for a while now, or Alvinz is not God. Since God knows who the CLs are, they would never bandwagon a CL. Either that, or alvinz is much more incompetant than I thought.

Zwet being a recruit is a definate possibility, but it doesn't explain why cultists (MafiaSSK and potentially orto) chose to follow zwet and vote me, and not vote him. This is very curious.

I'd also think that if alvinz was God, he would at least make an effort to refute the case against him. Because if he's God, he loses. Instead, he's accepting it, like I'd expect a cultist would. The only explanation would be that he believes that the cults have the majority.

This could be elaborate WIFOM, but I'm not seeing that as extremely probable.

If my points are true however, it would mean that God is probably either Indigo or Looker. (Leaning towards the Former) Not certain enough to back off yet, but would definately like some feedback, because I'm extremely tempted to unvote. Before I make my decision, however, I'll examine cultist relations to alvinz, Indigo, and Looker respectively, and potentially do a PBPA of each.

[PieIsPopcorn]

... I don't see any of these players saying that I can't be God because I posted a good analysis. Both Tajo and Al were against my lynch before I replaced in. Pacman also hated the zwet case. Also, the cults don't really need to be rallied. The cults can just follow their leaders/fellow cultists at this point.

The fact they've been defending you all along doesn't counter the possibility that you are God and they are cult at all- they would presumably have found an excuse for defending/not voting you regardless.

Oh no, I wasn't saying that they couldn't be cultists, I was pointing out that the reason why they didn't "consider that I could be God", in your own words, is that they didn't consider the case against me that good in the first place. It wasn't that they didn't feel that I could possibly be god, they just didn't consider it probable when it replaced in, and they didn't consider it anymore probable after my analysis post. That's my take.

Meh, I'd missed that he replaced into the game before the day ended. However, you continue to assume that the lack of God kill is a result of stupidity, rather than simply missing that Neitzche claimed God. Isn't it possible that alvinz simply wasn't aware of this fact?

I consider missing the claim to qualify as stupidity in this setup,

Possibly, but I think a quite possible explanation is apathy. As God, you don't need to find the CLs, nor God, which is the main debate throughout the thread. You can rely on your cultist friends to locate Neitzche. As a result, God will quite possibly become apathetic about the game, as a result of the fact that you know the identity of all the roles that are being discussed. As a result, it's quite possible that instead of being alert, and looking very carefully for Neitzche, you would lurk and be apathetic to the game as a whole. This would keep you under the radar until it's too late for the agnostics to fight back, and since you know who you don't want to be lynched (You, and later on, CLs), apathy is a definate possibillity.

Due to the difficulty of proving a negative, and the fact that as a replacement I can not provide explanations for the actions of my predecessor with absolute certainty, that is the worst reason to suspect somebody, especially at lylo.

SP said the same thing and this is very misleading- it is clearly not the only reason I suspect you of being God.

I did not state that that was the only reason you were voting me, and if it was, I certainly wouldn't have responded to the rest of your post. However the fact that you seemed to include that as a criticism makes it worthy of refutation. Here is your post with it's full context-

I admit I like PIP's analysis in 1543 and I had _exactly_ the same thoughts on DGB: I found her obvious cult-claims almost godlike but this is tempered by knowing she's way, way, way too intelligent not to have killed Jebus for the win, even if she's crazy enough to want to stay in the game despite being able to win instantly.

Then Alvinz posts a couple one-liners, jumps onto my wagon, and shows rather obviously (IMO) feigned ignorance about the mechanics of the game ("There's a cult for every god?").

Bear in mind we're dealing with a God who failed to claim the free win. If he's God then I doubt this ignorance would be feigned.

You also haven't told us why you yourself aren't God PIP

1. You claim that AA is ignorant of his powers.
2. You claim that AA knows that he wants Jebus to be killed.
3. There has been a Godkill each night.

For all we know the mod could randomise it.

DGB's response to PIP, to pretend he is recruitable, as is DGB's interaction with tajo and tajo's suggestions PIP is obvtown.

I would like a PIP lynch very, very, very much

That is a possiblity, sure. Examining LG's mod meta, he never makes clear whether or not in such a circumstance he would randomize the kill or have there be no kill. (Although he always says YOU, as in the player, will submit the kill. He never states that there will be a kill if not submitted, which seems like something he would bring up if it was the case.) It seems to vary from mod to mod, but I find in my personal epxerience that there being no kill is more common.

In fact, it would be more convenient. As Gurgi would not only have to remove the CLs in the case of God not killing, it would be extremely unlikely that he would have the opposite policy for CLs and God. Therefore, since he was having to randomize the God kills, he would most likely also randomize the cultings. This would not only mean removing God, and members of the cult, it would also mean removing the CLs from the opposing cults from the randomizing process. Extremely inconvenient, to be sure.

And the kill itself- I find it rather unlikely that a randomized kill would just HAPPEN to hit Adel, one of the most talkative and persuasive players in the game at the moment. That looks so much more like an intentional kill to me that it's insane.

Now, this argument is far from definitive. COULD the kills be randomized? Sure. COULD the kill and cult selection utilize different methods if they fail? Sure. I find the latter relatively unlikely, just due to how overcomplicated the system would become. This is all based on how likely we find the modding method, and is therefore useless discussion in nature, since we are not the Mod. I personally find, as a result of the reasons I listed, the method that a kill isn't made more probable. If you don't, then you will not find the argument particularly persuasive. It all depends on information that can not be obtained by the town.

I'm pretty much happy to accept all of this. Which means we're back to God being a moron rather than a lurker not playing properly.

Or an apathetic lurker. Or a lurker that, in one way or another, missed that Jebus had claimed Neitzche. This is especially possible as there was only one kill yesterday. Although I don't think either of them are god, both HP [leaves] and pacman are a perfect examples of this.

My internet failed, and I'm having an horrific V/LA (worsened due to huge amounts of homework).

So... is Jebus nietsche or no?

No, he's a cult leader (probably islamic). The real Nietsche must have figured out he was one and killed Jahudo, his first suspect for God.

Or Jebus is totally God.

Vote Jebus

Come on guys, we need him to full claim.

Why in the world would cultists distance from, much less buddy up to, God on what amounts to lylo? That is utterly illogical. I also notice a curious pattern in some of your accusations, but more on that later.

They cannot be "distancing from" and "buddying up to" simultaneously.

... That's not what I meant. In my post, I was saying that in your hypothesis, DGB would be "distancing", and tajo would be buddying up, since you find tajo suspect as well, due to his connection with DGB.

DGB is actually doing neither. She is joking about your win con changing, which implies firstly that you are agnostic presently and secondly that she wants to recruit you. Two layers of WIFOM which I've no doubt she would be smart enough to try to use to conceal the fact you are actually God. In fact without this explanation I don't see her stressing her cult recruity desires so much, as it doesn't otherwise accomplish anything.

I did use the incorrect term there, I apologize. It was the first one that came to mind that was even close to what DGB would be doing in your scenario. There are alternate reasons for DGB doing what she is that do not result in me or tajo being God.

1. She could be trying to WIFOM how correct I am in my analysis. ("Oh, DGB is saying that I need to be recruited. So I'm probably correct about alvinz! But wait... would she say that if Alvinz is God? So therefore Alvinz is probably not God. But wait...")

2. That other agnostics would actually notice that she was doing this and reach the conclusion that you are reaching.

3. By making these posts "Oh give up, agnostics have lost, you just need to be recruited." She could also be attempting to crush town moral, if she knows that we still have an extremely slim shot at winning.

Please do tell of this pattern in my accusations, I hope this is good.

My apologies. I thought I noticed some chainsawing with you and Mask man that after investigation, turns out to be non-existant.

So, by this vote, you are stating that you find my godhood more likely than that of both Alvinz and Zakeri. And that you feel that obv-cult DGB and zwet would wagon God in a lylo situation.

I've not committed myself to anything yet.

Then why did you post this with your vote?

I would like a PIP lynch very, very, very much

That sounds to me like you would like me to be lynched. Which would mean, that if you were an agnostic, you found me a better candidate than either Zakeri or alvinz. No?

@ PIP's 1587, please tell me why zwet is cult leader. I don't recall a convincing case on him (I looked back and I certainly don't see one today- I'm not even sure if one's been attempted ever).

Why would you want to see a convincing case on zwet? We're looking for god, not CLs. And Zwet is, barring utter insanity, not God. I found the fact that MafiaSSK (and potential you), an obvcultist, voting me instead of zwet is interesting. One thing that would explain this is if zwet was a cult leader, and therefore your cult would lose if he was lynched. However between the alvinz vote and a couple of posts by zwet, I'm beginning to wonder if this is the case. At the moment, however, it seems utterly irrelevant orto. We should be looking for God.

[PieIsPopcorn]

Blegh, sorry guys for not posting yet today. I don't really have much time ATM, and other games are particularly urgent. I'll make up for this by working on a huge analysis post tomorrow, as that's the beginning of Spring Break and the weekend, so i'll have more time to commit to it.

Fact: Jebus is Nietzsche
Fact: God was an idiot to not NK Nietzsche

People that were/are clueless idiots:
Me (according to some)
PieisPopcorn's predecessor (DoubleA)

This is incorrect as a result of the fact that the kill could be a result of an apathetic God, a God who lurked and then missed the full Neitzche claim, like hp [leaves] and Pacman did. Notice that indigo nor alvinz (Or possibly Zakeri, but I haven't checked that one. I know that Looker hasn't.) mentioned the N claim, and that Mask man thought there was a Christian recruit. He mentioned it in his initial Day 2 post, and in his statistical calculations that same day.

Conclusion:
PieisPopcorn is God.

WHY DON'T YOU ALL SEE THIS??

The self-evident fallacy doesn't work, especially when one of your "Facts" is based on a false premise.