DP12 JeepFest Mafia GAME OVER

[Someone]

vote:saberkitty

The only person with a worse name for random voting than me.

[Someone]

quote="PeaceBringer"]

FOS:Axelrod

It gets on my nerves when someone votes and then unvotes in the same post.

Fine UNVOTE LEONIDAS

VOTE THE SHADOW

UNVOTE THE SHADOW

VOTE LEONIDAS

it bugs me when people point fingers over things that annoy them.[/quote]

A bit hypocritical, Peacebringer?


Vesuvian 'wagon sounds good to me.

vote:Vesuvan

[Someone]

Erg...sorry, mod.

[Someone]

unvote;Vesuvian, Vote: SK

Things seem to be rolling here. Random thoughts:

Vesuvian: Not really all that scummy. Was lurking, but isn't anymore.

SK: Inconsistent, trying to deflect her own bandwagon. Slightly scummy.

Olio: In the double post above mine, he states that Vesuvian is suspicious, with no explanation. He states that he is willing to. Put that lethal vote on Vesuvian". Why? For lurking? I've been getting scummy vibes from olio all game, but that's just a gut feeling.

FOS

Axelrod: I've never really got why speculation is scummy. It's just speculation, it's not like it's bad for the town or anything. Why would the mafia be more inclined to speculate on the situation than the town? Not really scummy.

Enteryournamehere: Post 48...stifling discussion? Scummy, to me.

[Someone]

Nox is on vacation. She should be back and posting soon.

I'm willing to

unvote:SK, Vote:Olio

. I don't think that SK is really that scummy.

BTW, I think the problem with her quotations are the quotation marks, but I'm not sure how.

[Someone]

How ironic, bandwagoning Someone for bandwagoning.

Anyways, getting serious, I do see where you guys are coming from: I have been on quite a few bandwagons. However, I'm not sure how it's an indicator of scumminess.

A) I am not the most blatant bandwagoner here, I've been on just the Vesuvian wagon without a reason. Both the SK votes and the olio votes had explainations, and I was the one to point out olio's suspicionness. You can't tell me with the 10 people who voted vesuvian, and about the same number of people that voted SK, that there was nobody that has been wagoning but me.

B) Bandwagoning is not such a bad thing day one, is it? I mean, as long as it doesn't go all the way to a claim, all the arguments/reactions do some good, doesn't it? Since when does bandwagoning=scum?

I'm tempted to jump the PBug bandwagon ...but I won't: not because you guys would probably lynch me (okay, maybe a little bit ), but because I still like my olio vote.

[Someone]

So, you'll be the sole person deciding if you'll claim or not, doing it only if you see reasons real enough in your opinion - no matter how many votes on you, no matter how powerful your role is, with statement "Whoever puts in the lynching vote should be considered scum". Maybe my logic is way off, but if everyone'd play like that we'd never get further than day one. No townies would be throwing in the lynching vote, as those nearing the lynch could just spam that statement.

The problem is, he is not the sole person deciding if he should claim. What should be a deciding factor in his claim is simply the strength of the logic used agaist him. Now, if somebody did something that is considered very scummy, then he should very well claim. And, if you give reasoning, a lynching vote is very reasonable. However, what vesuvian is trying to say, is that there is no good reasoning on his bandwagon, so he should not be forced to claim.

Why have role-claims become so prominent in our game today. If people would stop claiming at every chance they get, and try to actually defend themselves, the town would get much farther in finding scum.

[Someone]

Eek! We have a deadline? You should put it in the headline, DP, someone could forget it .

IMO olio > Pbug, but there's not much I can do about it at this point.

[Someone]

Is it just me, or are we about to lynch Pbug without a claim?

[Someone]

Unless there's an inside joke about SK I'm not aware of, wouldn't "had a go at his eyes" be more applicable to MeMe?

@ Mr stoofer, I think we're just all used to a game with multiple killing groups we just assume that this is one, however false that may be.

I'm somewhat dissagreeing with ENYH's comment. DP probably made up this game before the signups were held, and he wouldn't have changed the game just because some of the people signed up.

[Someone]

Unless there's an inside joke about SK I'm not aware of, wouldn't "had a go at his eyes" be more applicable to MeMe?

Err...right, missed rolands post. Ignore this.

[Someone]

(avatar)

[Someone]

Heh. I'm being voted because I'm alive. Not much I can do about it I guess.

I notice that you've been on somewhat of a vendetta against me in this game, stoofer (Okay, maybe not a vendetta, but you've came back for a second time ). Is there any other reason you find me scummy? Or is it just this bandwagonning thing you keep accusing me of?

[Someone]

Somehow, I`m thinking Someone is a little too silent for my taste. From what I seen, he`s usually all over the place when he`s town.

I say nothing because all the evidence is too circumstantial for my tastes. All these bandwagon habits are good and great, but without really scummy behaviour, I always hesitate to follow them.

Was there a Someone wagon yesterday? I don't remember.

Yes.


That's all for the moment. I have some suspicions I want to post, but I need more time to sort my thoughts and make a more complete arguments.

[Someone]

lol @ MeMe.

It's interesting that PB didn't specify the reason for his post restriction. It probably had something to do with his role, which is why he claimed, and he just forgot to mention that (slightly important) detail.

Can somebody outline the important reasons for voting commodore, because I sure don't see any.

[Someone]

I say nothing because all the evidence is too circumstantial for my tastes. All these bandwagon habits are good and great, but without really scummy behaviour, I always hesitate to follow them.

Yet you jumped on 3 out of 4 bandwagons, excluding your own.

I don't see what you're trying to say. Please rephrase?

I'm saying that I don't like going by so-and-so voted for so-and-so, so he must be scum. Sure, he could be scum....but he also could have been town in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If you're looking for scum in bandwagons, you look for faulty arguments in the wagons, and then vote for people who followed that.

What does my bandwagonning have to do with my stance about evidence?

I find vesuvan slightly more scummy than axelrod at the moment so my vote will go to him

vote:vesuvan

[Someone]

It sounded like Nox didn't realise that roland was a power role until her second post.... Even though it was known that roland had some sort of info, it wasn't until a full claim that it was clear that he was a power role.

[Someone]

Is this the follow tss like sheep game or something?

I particularily don't like CA because his excuse for voting me was "to create another viable bandwagon", which makes it seem like it's not blatant bandwagoning, when it still is.

[Someone]

I'm MATTHEWV, the townee.

I don't think nox is scum.

That being said, I think the town would benifit from me more dead than alive. Knowing that I am townee, the voting patterns are very telling.

I don't know why I'm argueing against myself, but I really feel that I'm the better lynch today.

unvote, vote someone

[Someone]

I'm saying that I have been much more active on bandwagons, much more targeted, and been the center of discussion for most of the game. Nox, OTOH, has just been singled out for a couple posts she has made.

There has been much talk about voting patterns and whatnot, and they center upon me being scum, which is not true. Perhaps in my death, you guys may realize what you could not while I'm living.

Plus, I still don't think nox is scum. I don't know why...it's just nagging at me.

[Someone]

What's a mafia proxy?

[Someone]

I don't think so. I remember him well though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he modded my first game on the site...trouble in the toybox.

unvote:someone

With that in mind, I don't want to lynch nox. I'll get my vote on the next biggest wagon.

vote:mr stoofer

[Someone]

I did indeed notice the same thing that vesuvian did. Even though I didn't notice the front post at the time, I don't think that Nox is attentive enough to notice it either.

Also, I don't think vesuvian is scum based on the same logic.

I'm still happy with my vote on stoofer. It's not me, and it would probably give us some info.

[Someone]

The game isn't just made out of GLers, LmL.

Polarboy was a very well-respected scummer, in his time. Maybe "his time" came before you got here? Because I have no problem in believing that DP would have him in the game.

[Someone]

Basically: I think you've acted scummily. At worst, we lynch a townie. At best, we lynch scum.

That's the thing. At worst, we lynch a townee. Justifying myself voting for well...myself... I'd just like to say I thought (and still think) that it was more than likely that nox is innocent. Now, there is a

chance

that I'm wrong.

In my eyes:

If we lynched nox there was a good chance that she was a townee and we would gain little from her lynch, and a small chance that she's mafia.

If we lynched me, I'm a townee but you can gain loads of info from my lynch.

From there, it's just an arguement of semantics. I thought the info that we could get from my lynch would be more helpful than the small chance that nox was maf. MeMe did not. MeMe, I ask you this. If you were in my place, and you were

sure

that somebody was innocent (without actually knowing it, of course), would you at least consider voting yourself? Or does that little chance that she's not innocent outweigh the rest.

Anyways, all of this to say, I don't think MeMe is scummy for what she did, just that her views differ from mine.

I do find the arguements she has against nox to be weak though. I'll wait to see if nox can supply some linkage before I comment on the blue thing. I'll just say I found post 306 to not have real evidence in it...when nox voted roland, roland was showing no indications of being a power role. If he was a power role, he would have claimed as such before he got lynched (like he did). Especially for somebody that is relatively new in this game, the roland-is-a-power-role logic may have been lost on her.

[Someone]

Hmm. On one hand, I don't think that tss is scum. It would take very gutsy scum to make all this analysis if it was all a bold-faced lie. OTOH, it doesn't necessarily mean that his analysis is correct.

The problem is, once scum realised that we were analysing vote patterns to death, they probably put much more care into dispersing their votes. It's getting less likely each day that looking at the voting patterns will tell a lot.

On a side note, how many scum do we think are left? I'm thinking at least four?

Anyways, my gut tells me that axelrod is scum, but his votes say otherwise. I'll withhold my vote for now though.

[Someone]

The problem I have with axelrod's latest humungo-post, is that there is no real point to it. The posts you outlined are very much typical LmL behaviour.

If you're going to quote all the posts of a player, it should be so you can show us something more concrete. Targetting lurkers and hopping a couple bandwagons are very much part of the game, and if you're going to suspect people for it, you might as well lynch the whole town.

I'll give you that you did point out a couple of things that were interesting in that post, but overall your analysis was not extrememly convincing to me.

Since fuldu just stole the top of the page from you...mod, vote count?

[Someone]

I disagree. If I'm scum, I would have to be pretty gutsy to analyse stuff like tss. Just as our voting patterns tend to reveal us as scum, so would tss's accusations. All this analysis he's making is helping the town get a better read on him. If he's scum, he's extremely careful scum that needs to cover his tracks just in case his mafia buddy dies and possibly incriminates him.

I'm in no way saying that tss is cleared, but the way he's going about analysing votes and things seems like a pro-town thing to do.

[Someone]

Fos Tss.

Why give the scum more info than necessary? I assume that all of Pb's visions are leaning towards pro-town (If not, the person being suspected should claim immediately). Therefore, I see no reason why we should treat a "vision cop" any differently than a regular one. Ie, not claiming the visions unless the person in question is in question.

[Someone]

Another thing to discuss...should pb use his abilities tomorrow?

[Someone]

Hmm...IMO the colors in Pb's vision maybe has to do with an avatar? I can't think of anyone at the moment that fits the description, but maybe some of the old-timers can figure it out?

[Someone]

Checking in, haven't read, post tonight or tomorrow night.

[Someone]

Done a re-read. No closer to finding scum.

I don't think all this discussion about voting patterns is warranted at this point in the game. I mean, it's all good and great to say that scum "would" have voted a certain way, but really we have no way of knowing where scum would put their vote. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum in this game, and look where that has gotten us... the only mafia who's been lynched didn't have any sort of suspicious voting patterns whatsoever. (Stoofer was SK, so voting patterns should be moot with him.)

Now, as I said, my re-read did not further a lot of my suspicions. However, I do have some questions.

A) Did roland ever reveal who "mith" was? Do we know who it is? If so, has this person claimed outright?

B) Is PB confirmed in any way as post restricted? How do we know he's not mafia?

C) Besides mith and jeep, are there any other possibility of mafians with anthrax that would make thematic sense?

[Someone]

I think it's mostly because of his lurking, and not your images, that he is being bandwagoned.

@ MeMe, Can you explain to us exactly how your role works? Now that you have used it, it shouldn't be a problem.

[Someone]

I don't see how you can dissagree that Pb's role is fakeable by a mafia. Sure, he might be telling the truth, but there's just as much of a chance that he's running a mafia ploy.

Any last words?

[Someone]

I think both the pieces of logic by LmL and CA that try to outguess the mod are flawed. It is very possible that DP made a game with eight townees. Why not? I have no idea where you're pulling this concept that there should be a certain amount of townees, which is certainly false.

This post by CA:

I very strongly think two of our scum are Someone and NanookTheWolf.

vote: NanookTheWolf

He has claimed vanilla townie. All the townies that have come up so far have been people who were not at jeepfest. HezLucky, Foolster, Ataraxy, and Phoebus weren't there (as far as I know; I'm working off this: https://www.mafiascum.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/jeepfest). Why would Pooky be in this group?

Look at our power roles so far: Talitha, nonny, mackay, (Cadmium if you believe me, mith if you believe MeMe, Hey_Herb if you believe PeaceBringer). Participants at jeepfest. Why are all these roles, but Pooky is just a townie?

The player names are a mix of names of people who will attend the actual party and other well-known names from one (or both) of the two sites.

Several of the actual participants of JeepFest are left out of the players, something the baddies are aware of.

Nanook has used the safe claim that he was given, but he claimed it was just vanilla townie. From the wiki, it looks like Pooky was having a pretty good time there, playing Risk and all. Doesn't seem like a vanilla townie to me.

As for Nox and Someone, Polarboy is a non-attendee, as far as I know. I'll let Nox slide for now. MatthewV was actually at jeepfest. Someone claimed vanilla townie.

Huge FoS: Someone

.

If we trust PeaceBringer, inHimshallibe is probably jeep, so he's probably clean.

If this theory holds, we have some pretty clean people:
Me
MeMe
PeaceBringer
inHimshallibe

MeMe has investigated one other person; hopefully PeaceBringer has done this as well. Between the two of them, we should be able to find out who Leonidas, LoudmouthLee, and the silent speaker are. I'm inclined to think LoudmouthLee is okay at this point. It's his suggestion that there were too many vanilla townies that made me come up with this theory.

We should definitely lynch Nanook to see if this theory holds water. We're in really good shape if it does.

Strongly incriminates me with no reason to do so. You're accusing me because I'm one of

two

claiming to be a person attending jeepfest being a townee? Firstly, you have no grounds on which to claim your arguement. Secondly, why claim MatthewV as scum if I knew that all my scum family was attending jeepfest as well?

Anyways, no vote for now, have my eye on inhim.

[Someone]

I don't buy the "I'm done defending myself" stance very much, especially from nanook. Dunno why though.

LmL, have you analysed the setup for you to come to your deduction? I find it perfectly possible that all the townees are telling the truth and that the game can be still balanced.

Anyways, the nanook wagon is looking very appetizing right about now...

[Someone]

I say we lynch nanook dead.

It's funny how you people who strongly oppose no-lynch even when it's tactically correct, advocate this scenario where we would essentially no-lynch in a crucial situation.

Of course, we would get as info inhim's role, but I don't think that that's nearly enough to justify not getting a lynch. For one thing, I buy the claim. Also, confirming inhim's role does not esentially prove him innocent.

[Someone]

That's wifom leo. The mafia would have left her be if there would be considerable pressure on her because she was not dead. Also, her role is a

role

finding mechanism, and if I understand correctly has no bearing on alignment. If the mafia intends to claim their real roles, they might not consider MeMe a great threat.

[Someone]

I say we lynch nanook dead.

Couldn't you at least be a bit nicer about it. I really would like to fight harder on this one, but honestly I can see what I've gotten myself into. Their isn't much to fight when I've given my claim and tried my hardest to find scum, which obviously isn't my best ability.

Sorry nanook. This is not to say I find you amazingly suspicious. It's just to say that preventing the lynch would be foolish, reagardless of who we prevent from being lynched.

[Someone]

Checking in, not much more to add.

Tss's vote seems a bit premature to me, there's lots of stuff to be said yet in the form of claims and stuff.

[Someone]

Where does this take us though?

Inhim is obviously not going to make the kill tonight because he knows you're going to block him. Wouldn't it be more a use of your abilities to block somebody else?