DP12 JeepFest Mafia GAME OVER

[The Shadow]

Oops. I missed my connecting flight.

Vote:Leonidas

for totally random reasons.

[The Shadow]

FOS:Axelrod

It gets on my nerves when someone votes and then unvotes in the same post.

[The Shadow]

Unvote. Vote:Vesuvan

for lack of a better choice.

[The Shadow]

This is classic. Is it just me, or did Commodore Amazing and Peacebringer switch awful fast? I mean, I can understand unvoting, but they suddenly move to the next potential bandwagon with little or no explanation. How do you know TSS isn't scum defending a partner? I'm not saying he is, but changing votes without giving even a reason (PB) is rather strange, imo.

Regarding Vesuvan, he was one of the lurkers for the past couple days. Suddenly he's back and is one vote from the lynch and he starts off his post discussing the use of speculating on day 1 with Axelrod? He says the bandwagon has no point so he refuses to claim. Well what if some nut didn't like that and voted you anyway and we lost a powerful role? Would that be a good time to claim? Oh wait, it's a bit late by then.

[The Shadow]

How much reason do day 1 bandwagons usually have?

And for another thing, the town could lose an important role, for all we know ,because someone rushed the lynch vote without waiting for a claim OR because the victim decided he didn't care. Sure it worked out better so far, but when 9 people are voting for you, it's a bit late to worry about their reasons.

[The Shadow]

I am pretty interested in all of those who are still chastising Vesuvan for choosing not to claim when under pressure. Claiming should

always

be a last resort and Vesuvan did quite well talking himself out of the noose without spilling his role. Bravo, I say.

I didn't realize I was chastising him,

My thinking is that particularly on day 1, when you're already up to 9 votes, it's not to be unexpected if someone throws on the tenth vote just for the sake of bandwagoning. I agree that Vesuvan did a good job of talking himself out of it, though it seemed to me more like TSS talked everyone temporarily into SK. The only reason he didn't get lynch was everyone quickly switched to a new target. I'm not saying we'd be better off if he had claimed, what I am saying is in that situation it's a bit late to take a chance on trying to talk your way out of it.

[The Shadow]

Unvote. Vote:Someone.

[The Shadow]

I'm leaving tomorrow on a week long trip. Should have net access, but if you don't spot anyone skulking in the shadows, it's probably because I'm not here.

[The Shadow]

Sorry for not being here...I ended up having a lot of extra work after I got back and I wasn't able to really look at the thread at all.

At this point, I'm going to

Vote:Someone

.

Again, apologies for being gone.

[The Shadow]

What's funny is, I frowned at CA's post before even seeing any of these posts.

[The Shadow]

Vote: Commodore

simply because I felt he was suspicious yesterday (and noted it. I'm too lazy to find the exact quote just now), and his latest "could the mafia have been trying to protect him" line (that MeMe noted) sounds pretty silly. I don't recall having played with him before, so it may be just his playing style, but it bugs me.

[The Shadow]

It's been 2 weeks since your last post, and you don't even say hello first?

Hello first.

Actually, I really am sorry I haven't been posting. While I have been a bit busy, it's mostly just I've been getting behind on the reading and been too lazy to spend enough time thinking about everything to say anything more substantial then, "Sorry I haven't posted lately."

I'll work on it and hopefully spend a little more time on it then I have been.

[The Shadow]

You don't like my idea? I think we should lynch the Commodore. Aside from just generally acting suspicious, in my humble opinion, I think voting him is a nice way to remove the light amount of pressure on myself.

[The Shadow]

@TSS: Personally, I don't think lynching me would be a good idea.

A: I always lurk. It's a bad habit of mine. Sorta a fondness of dark places and silence...

B: Your voting patterns are partially twisted because they lack a detail called online time. I was not here when Axelrod was getting himself killed. The other problem with your voting pattern is I'm generally not that careless (I like to think, anyhow) as scum to vote the same as my partner.

C: I'm not scum. So...it seems kinda silly to lynch a guy on the town's side. At least that's how it seems to me. I always thought the point of the game was lynching the bad guys. Something we haven't done so well this far.

D: For all your posting, TSS, I saw nothing until Axelrod was basically dead where you actually considered him scum. Why is that? I suppose most of the others really didn't either, but right before PB gave his trip info there was some talk on Axel and you completely ignored it then.

I know it's not generally wise to reflect suspicion on a guy voting you...but, well, it's because he was accusing me that I was checking that up.

Vote: The Silent Speaker

because at this point in time he's top of my most-likely-to-be-scum list.

[The Shadow]

The only scum TSS voted for that I didn't was Axelrod (Don't know if he voted for Mr. Stoofer and at any rate, Stoofer doesn't count because no one knew he was a SK) and he was rather late on the bandwagon.

I wasn't here so I couldn't vote for Axelrod.

Point C was a joke.

On my quote there...either you seriously misquoted me or I wrote that sentence terribly...And I have a sick feeling it's B.

But to elaborate on that, TSS was voting me and I was afraid a bandwagon was going to start on me (which, it appears could easily sprout unless I'm incredibly lucky). Obviously it's not easy to defend lurking which I tend to do more often then not.

I know it's a bad argument but I usually talk a little more when I'm scum because I'm afraid of being lynched

To continue: I needed a new goat for the town to go after so I decided to find someone. Doesn't sound too good as a defense, but that's the way it goes. The only person who has posted less then me (and I'm not sure he has) is Leonidas. He seemed fairly safe, however. I turned to TSS because he was voting me (I think for the second time) and checked through his previous posts. I found he had not voted Axelrod till fairly late and had completely ignored the initial action against Axelrod. I couldn't find any instances of his being particularly helpful so I brought up those facts to try to save myself.

Sure, he's more productive then me, but from my point of view he's got a better chance of being scum.

At any rate, that's my defense. If you don't like it, well....I guess I get lynched.

[The Shadow]

So, out of fear of a bandwagon forming on you, you went after not whoever you find scummiest, but the target likeliest to deflect attention from you?

That's a harsh way of putting it....But that's about right.

Voting patterns aren't an exact science and in this case it is wrong. At least as far as my voting is concerned. Plus I don't really have an excuse for voting similar to Axelrod. Rather unexplainable. More of an accident then anything else.

[The Shadow]

vote: The Shadow

Thank you for the vote without reason. I will do the same.

Unvote. Vote:MeMe.

[The Shadow]

Unvote:MeMe

. Since I voted her for no real reason, I guess I'll unvote for the same reason.

I did a partial reread yesterday. I'll try to get it finished this afternoon.

[The Shadow]

I earlier said that I was leaning toward you, Shadow. Since then, you've explained your actions as being about self-preservation rather than actually trying to lynch anyone you thought was scummy, which only added to my feelings that you're a good choice.

When I end up not having a lot of internet time available and find myself presumably about to be lynched I need a defense. When I'm behind on my reading and don't really have a defense I come up with a temporary one to buy time. I don't think it's in the town's best interests to lynch me as I said before and I didn't honestly expect TSS to be lynched.

And yes, I soon after admitted my actions were about self-preservation. Hey, at least I didn't lie about it. I'm only a good choice, as far as I can see, for the reason that I've been lurking. It's true, and I can't really defend that.

Don't be deceived that, just because two people are having a discussion that doesn't feature you as a topic, you've been forgotten.

I never felt that I would be ignored. It was the second time the topic momentarily left me and I'd gotten used to it from other games of lurking.

I'll admit, CA's behavior continues to rankle.

Well, I don't know about you, but I've been suspicious of CA for quite a while.

That lurker comment annoys, because it's just as true that lurking is a cheap way for scum to avoid getting themselves lynched, which might well be what The Shadow is doing.

Aside from the fact that I nearly always lurk, regardless of my role.

And he, too, wasn't targeted last night, which seems surprising. But his kill was outside the scope of the standard scum kill and no one else bothered to claim it, so I still trust him, even if at a distance.

Yes...A pity about that. I'd really hoped CA was scum. I was fairly certain of it, in fact, until the vig thing came out. Since then, he's acted even more scummy imho, but I'll leave that alone for now.

Aside from that, I really want to hear from Mikehart or his replacement about PeaceBringer's acid trip. That is, whether he has any way to confirm or deny it (or at least, if he has anything to say about it.) It was mentioned earlier, but I don't recall Mikehart answering it, or if he did, I missed it.

But I think that right now I'm going to

Vote: Nanook the Wolf

A: He voted Axelrod, true, but it was at a point where I think he would have considered it a necessary evil.

B: When MeMe initially suggested that the killer might be SaberKitty because they "had a go at his eyes" Nanook added fuel to it.

C: Post #7, He didn't vote along with Leonidas gut feeling about Stoofer. (Axelrod had also just previously stated a distrust of Leonidas as well and voted him if it means anything)

Admittedly, A is an opinion on my part, B doesn't really incriminate him any more then MeMe and C is probably normal play (not to mention Stoofer was a SK). So it obviously isn't much to go on, but I get a feeling about him. And no, this isn't just an excuse to take pressure off of me. Basically, it's a compilation of looking over the remaining live ones and deciding who does or doesn't sound honest at this point.

Well, that's it. It isn't much, but I never claimed to be particularly smart.

[The Shadow]

The only time you can possibly not have a defense and need to concoct a placeholder is when you're scum.

Sure, I have a defense. But it's not much of one. And as I've said multiple times, lurking isn't easy to defend.

I didn't honestly expect TSS to be lynched.

Then what was the point of voting me? Just throwing your vote away? How does that help anything?

I explained once why I voted you, but since you apparently missed it...

my actions were about self-preservation. Hey, at least I didn't lie about it. I'm only a good choice, as far as I can see, for the reason that I've been lurking. It's true, and I can't really defend that.

You weren't in any danger at that time of being lynched and as I said, I didn't think you would be. It wasn't strictly according to Hoyle, but it kept me alive long enough to do some majorly needed rereading.

He also tries to pin some suspicion on Commodore Amazing, despite CA having the most unshakable alibi in the game: CA can't be scum, because he was off killing someone else when the scum were killing Vesuvan. And he argues that he shouldn't be held suspicious for lurking becayse he always does; well, Shadow, it hurts the town every time. If you want to help the town, stop doing it!

I was giving an opinion, not throwing suspicion. I just said I was disappointed that CA turned out to be a vig because I felt he was the scummiest. Nobody else mentioned it, so apparently you're the only one who felt it hurt the town.

Look at his reasoning for voting Nanook: A) he voted scum. B) He agreed with an all-but-confirmed pro-town power role. C) He didn't vote a serial killer.

Way to misquote me. Here is my quote:

A: He voted Axelrod, true, but it was at a point where I think he would have considered it a necessary evil.

B: When MeMe initially suggested that the killer might be SaberKitty because they "had a go at his eyes" Nanook added fuel to it.

C: Post #7, He didn't vote along with Leonidas gut feeling about Stoofer. (Axelrod had also just previously stated a distrust of Leonidas as well and voted him if it means anything)

A: You twisted it to make it sound different then I wrote it as can be seen. I was noting that though he had voted one of the scum that did not make him innocent BECAUSE it was at a point where he probably already felt Axelrod was doomed.

B: MeMe was not all-but confirmed pro-town power role at that time; The point he agreed to would not have hurt him if he was scum, in fact it would have taken suspicion away from scum.

C: I was not accusing him for not voting Stoofer. If Nanook was scum, as I believe, he would obviously not have known Stoofer was scum. I was noting he said he wouldn't follow Leonidas' gut feeling right after Axelrod had just previously voted Leonidas.

This, he says, is the scummiest player exant in a game with probably three more scum!

He's posting just enough to avoid a lurker vote and basically seems to be lying low, in my opinion. There's other players that have claimed (such as CA, who you mentioned earlier and MeMe) who aren't. Of the ones that I don't recall claiming, he makes the most sense at this time.

When someone lurks, it's for one of 3 reasons: Busy schedule, laziness or being scum. Mine is a combination of the first two. Oddly enough, despite the fact you've played a good deal more then me, you seem to overlook the fact that when a person who is scum lurks, they generally don't stop posting altogether for 2 weeks as I did. You should have known that (or at least one of you should have) or else you're purposely overlooking it because you have other motives. Which is it, TSS?

And then we have Nanook, who claimed "Pookie", which he says is how it's spelled in the role PM... this smacks of badly botched fakery, only it's almost

too

badly botched. I find it very unlikely the PM would say "Pooky" rather than the full PookyTheMagicalBear" to begin with, much less a gross error in spelling. But then, why can't he use his real role name, if he invented Pooky's?

Maybe he is Pookie. Maybe he's Pookie and Pookie is scum. Ever consider that?

[The Shadow]

Actually,

unvote; vote: The Shadow

- you're actually trying to defend your lurking?

Now, did I ever say that?

[The Shadow]

I can't defend what TheShadow calls 'flying under the radar',

Actually I said you were lying low. InHim said you were flying under the radar.

[The Shadow]

Any last words?

Is that directed at me?

[The Shadow]

<sigh> Good luck, town. You're going to need it.