Last Will Mafia II (Over)

[Xite91]

Vote: Kmd

Out of pure policy

[Xite91]

Is Diacria a hydra?

Vote: Kmd

Out of pure policy

we should definitely NOT start this in-game, you know what will happen

[Xite91]

Vote: Kmd
Out of pure policy

What kind of policy vote is this? Given that this is probably your first game on Mafiascum, I'd like to know why this is a policy vote.

Because I told him a long time ago that no matter what it was, he'd have my vote.
Also, I'd love to see him buckle under pressure, it's so cute

Kmd, don't give me away. I wanna be seen as an alt

Also, I wonder if Dia will hammer his own wagon.

Unvote, Vote:Diacria

[Xite91]

Oh shit, btw

V/LA for a while, internet is down at my place

I'll be on as much as possible though

[Xite91]

/IN

I WILL BE
,IF I'M ABLE TO DO SO,
HAMMERING ALL WAGONS
THAT REACH L-1

REGARDLESS
OF ANYTHING

BE FOREWARNED

But you're contradicting yourself

[Xite91]

Unvote

For now, that's all I needed to hear. But you're still on my suspicion list at the moment

[Xite91]

First,

At this point I'd prefer to call Millar a troll. I wonder if he has a role that thrives off of trollness.

Nope, Millar is just a troll. Nothing he's doing seems scummy to me at this moment.
Millar, don't claim yet, wait till you get to L-2 like the rest of us

I would like to know what Twomz is implying. It seems like a plea to not get a bandwagon on him, considering Kmd was the first to voice suspicion on him.

vote: Twomz

Xite, good luck with that. I don't feel pressure. Ever.

-------------------

Xite, why is Diacria scum? And why unvote if you think that?

Haha, I can name a few times you would feel pressure

But seriously, I don't like his idea of, i'll hammer any bandwagon, I don't care which one
I think he should have a little more.... intelligence? than that, dunno can't think of the right word

The only thing I can say to shattered is that you annoy the hell outta me and post too much spam. I hope that kill was for real, but if you say that you're done with rvs, I'll believe you for now.

TOWN
Supersmash
Shattered
Bunny
EGL
Millar
KMD
Richard

I'm calling

SLIPUP

as if I ever wrote a "Who I think is townn list" i would ALWAYS involve myself, but you didn't. WHY, coz your scum? Or a 3rd party.

Unvote VOte:Diacria

When people post who they think are town and say that they're in it, it makes me think they're scum

I see I missed RVS. Damn.

I am still solidly in the midst of RVS.

unvote

Vote: Chronopie

Won't you join me?

You don't get to dictate these things, you know.

unvote

vote:ShatteredViewpoint

I lol'd

[Xite91]

Oh, by the way, I should get my internet back later today, so I should be able to post more often

[Xite91]

@Smash Bros

Sorry that I forgot about the game for a day, got kind of too focused on an ongoing game that just started yesterday in Smash World Forums. I'm back and ready to contribute.

I would be up for a policy lynch on millar13. I personally don't like his behavior and his rule-breaking and if he were to continue being disrespectful to the game and the mod doesn't replace him, the next best solution is to lynch him.

---

@Diacria: I notice two problems with your big twenty-three players list:
1. We've learned barely anything from the list. All you're saying is that "I like this person/I think this person is lurking.", which gave us almost no information.

2. Seems like you're lurker hunting and not really scum hunting. Not one person you've mentioned was declared scummy, but at worst, a lurker.

---

First Post.

VOTE: Millar13

For being The most scummy to read throughout this thread. Be back later with a better vote/reason

I really don't like this. You don't explain your suspicion on Millar13 at all. This gives us nothing to work on and I'm thinking you're bandwagoning.

I was going to role claim and aid the town, but i cba anymore.

What's preventing you from roleclaiming now? Sure it wouldn't be a good idea until Lylo/Mylo or when you're at L-1 and have to claim (With rare exceptions), but if you want to claim, feel free to.

Actually I'll figure that out later.
Vote: Amished

Any explanation for that vote on Amished? I have saw none so far.

viewtopic.php?p=2341785#p2341785
^^^
King of Eggs is town.

You are linking to the sign-up sheet of that game. Plus we have seen absolutely nothing out of him. How can you possibly make a conclusion that he is town?

Richard, who's scum?

Hypocrisy at it's finest. You have yet to explain your suspicions.

Did you pass third grade? Because it really doesn't look like it.

Wow, you are resorting to insulting people's intelligent level. That's pretty sad.

---

Conclusion: I like my vote on Diacria. He doesn't explain his suspicions or votes, frequently changes votes which gives me the feeling that he's bandwagoning, and is active lurking to death. Very few of his posts can even be considered acceptable. From this, I think he's a good Day 1 lynch and my vote will stay on him.

Other people I'm planning on looking more closely at are Shattered Viewpoint, RichardGHP, Reverse Simplicity, and millar13.

You know, again I'm going to use the term throwing spaghetti cuz i really like it. Youre putting out all sorts of information about all sorts of people without saying much about any of it and seeing what sticks.

THEN you decide to tunnel Dia in your next obscene wall post which is all i seem to see from you

@ Millar

CLAIM: I'm the princess, well technically the prince lol. Except according to my message if i have read it correctly, i am only given a funeral if i am killed during the day.

For some reason this seems like a godfather role, I dunno wai it jus dus, so now I want the real one or that is what I am inclined to believe


@ Twomz

Everything you do is scummy to me for some reason

So, my top three are Twomz, Millar, and SSBF
I still don't like Dia, but having these three go after her makes me feel like they know she's an easy lynch, so lets off her first.

[Xite91]

EBWOP aka they decided it was a good idea to off her first, sorry I tend to voice what I think people are thinking the way they would think it

[Xite91]

@SSBF no, it doesn't but you're just responding, not really pushing anything on anyone at that point. Afterwards, you focused on people based on what people focused on. It's not always bad, but the way you did it it seems like a scumtell to me.
Sorry if this isn't making sense, I'm pretty sidetracked at the moment. I'll re-explain if needed in a bit when I have more focus.

[Xite91]

Yup, that's about it

[Xite91]

I'm here but I've made my case, and I'm not finding much else for tells, currently reading ISOs tho.

[Xite91]

@Mod: Are people with multiple votes are going to be able to vote different people (Like for example, if I had three vortes, I could vote for Player A, B, and C?). Or do you have to put it all in one person?

I don't like this, If you're going to vote someone, vote them You shouldn't want to split votes. What the hell would that do?

Unvote if voting, Vote: SSBF

More to come, scrapped for time, but I truly believe that this is where my vote should go at the moment

And this is just a side not but,

that "I've makes it sound like you aren't tunneling as town here.

holycon adamantly defended raider against the meta point Rhinox made, which almost guarantees that holycon and raider are related somehow.

- - -

Unvote, vote raider8169

Wait what?

[Xite91]

I don't like this, If you're going to vote someone, vote them You shouldn't want to split votes. What the hell would that do?

I honestly have no idea how that quote was scummy in any shape or form. It was a simple question to the mod and I already gotten an answer (Which is "no"). Had we've been able to spread our votes around, I personally think that it would help be efficent in scum hunting.

Let's say you have three votes. You are able to spread one vote to one person. You are also able to put forth three votes toward one person and able to put two vote on one person and one vote on a person. You can vote up to three people at a time.

Now how would putting your three votes on three people be more beneficial then three votes on one person? One, it would reduce the chance of a scum quicklynch/town accidental hammer. Two, it would help put pressure on as many people as possible. Three votes on one person will only put more pressure toward one person. Three votes on three seperate people would put more pressure toward three seperate people. Sure it would be less pressure toward individual people, but by placing votes toward three seperate people, it is more likely that you're voting for a scum.

I'm just saying that if you're voting for someone, even if it's just to put pressure on them, you need to be sure it's the right choice.
And yeah, it's a great idea to get a fuster cluck of oh mah god dont killz me plox from like 434315 people at once.
The point wasn't the answer it was the question. Typically if you're timid about your vote you don't believe in it. If you're town, typically you shouldn't be pushing people to the point of pressure if you dont believe you're onto something.

[Xite91]

Sorry guys, unfortunately life decided to happen all at once, so I will be V/LA on and off for the next two or three, but I should be able to get on at least every three days if I've planned correctly. Just a warning in case I haven't though

It's also on the VC. I have been meaning to do an ISO of the top suspects to decide how exactly I sit with them as well. Sorry that I didn't do it earlier in the weekend, I was out of town for my wife's birthday/4th of July, so I didn't have the time to sit down and reread anything, just stay caught up.

I'm pretty sure he meant votes on you not you voting.

I'm just saying that if you're voting for someone, even if it's just to put pressure on them, you need to be sure it's the right choice.

I can be absolutely certain that one person is scum beyond all doubts and have multiple votes. I can still choose to only put forth one vote, because I know there are other scums out there, and I can put them on my other top lynch candidates.

And yeah, it's a great idea to get a fuster cluck of oh mah god dont killz me plox from like 434315 people at once.

If someone were to intentionally kill a person, we were able to spread our votes around to different people, and if we had plenty of time left, this increases the chance of the person being scum. Scums would have to blend in with other people more, putting multiple votes on a person would help make the scums stand out.

Yeah, but if you're certain of someone as scum, you should push a lynch on them, and not just go oh here's a measly one vote when I have 10 that'll show you that I have suspicion on you. May as well be an FoS. Also, then scum have the chance of doing the same thing, then when the person gets wagoned they could hammer with the excuse that they already had one vote on them, so obviously they thought they were suspicious. Say they do this with like 7 people left in the game and they have 4 votes or something to that effect?

Also, your second thing to me, explain thought process please?

FOS:Haywire

Uhm wha??

Active lurker spam?

As you can see I am willing to respond to anything but the case against me is more based on my play style instead of really being scummy. Unfortunate but it happens.

When your playstyle is scummy, you will get called out as scum

I WASN'T ASKING YOU

Way to overreact?
Hey, everyone since kmd already said daykill wasn't real, how does a policy lynch sound?

@Pittbunny,

You don't get to dictate these things, you know.

Unvote

Vote: Pittbunny

Just for you ^__^

[Xite91]

You don't get to dictate these things, you know.

Unvote

Vote: Pittbunny

Just for you ^__^

Unvote;
Vote Xite

Unvote

I just wanted to see my avi in pitts post
Anyways, back to scumhunting anyone?

[Xite91]

OMGUS

UNVOTE; VOTE: Pittbunny

CSL, can you please stop active lurking? PWETTY PWEESE?

[Xite91]

Or, you could remember it as the one everyone forgot to scumhunt in?

[Xite91]

Uhm, richard, you can try to form your own wagon on someone you see as scummy.
What you did is one of my biggest scumtells to be honest...

Unvote, Vote RichardGHP

Millar, why csl?

[Xite91]

Believe me, most cases I make only take off when a)

I'm clear

, b) a lot of people are FoSing that person or c) when the game is full of easily convinced newbs.

And, you're by far the leading wagon, so even though my view is pessimistic, I don't think you can validly call it scum-like. There are a couple of other people I'd rather lynch, but it just won't happen.

Then post a case and be clear? lulz
And actually, it is EXTREMELY scum-like



Okay, so richard, csl and either charlie or raider (or maybe both) are scum, I'll give more tells when I can.
So, yeah, lets get more votes on raider plox? kthnx

My raider vote is there for the reasons it was a page back, I'm just putting it back after the xite shenanigans.

Tee-hee I have shenanigans named after me

[Xite91]

Oops, EBWOP
more votes on richard
damn R names

[Xite91]

I'd really like the logic on that one.
I'm just giving my reads, that's all
And oh will you?
Should we test this?

[Xite91]

Oh yeah, and why is charlie not in your posts of if then statements?

[Xite91]

CSL's last post (beginning + end) seems pretty accurate. Xite's 535 strikes me as

townie pseudo-humour

, as I doubt scum would dare post something quite so horrible.

The middle part is a little odd, though.

PoS: CSL

.

Uhm, aside from the shenanigans thing, I don't see what's humorous about my post...
What's pos?

Can I please have an explanation as to why CSL's post makes so much sense?

[Xite91]

CSL or you can now and make things easier since I'm sure you'll use that as an excuse as to why you didn't ever get into the "gory stuff"

[Xite91]

Maybe not, but I do it all the time lulz
And thanks
And I wasn't asking for a read on other players
I was asking for an explanation of your reasoning

[Xite91]

That's really stupid
In your last two posts you could have explained it and not taken as much time.
This seems a bad attempt to cover up a mistake you made.
I'll get richard as scum tomorrow, this needs to be done.

Unvote, Vote CSL

[Xite91]

I'm not following a wagon? that's your first reason?
I have no way of knowing that until either you die or the game ends
Okay?
Yes it does, thank you
I think that you've earned a cookie

unvote

Now back to my other wanted lynch

Vote: Richard

for the reasons I pointed out earlier

[Xite91]

oh wait, what about charlie? what's your idea on that one?

[Xite91]

so what about charlie?

[Xite91]

Okay, so

richard

,

csl

and either

charlie

or

raider

(or maybe both) are scum, I'll give more tells when I can.
So, yeah, lets get more votes on raider plox? kthnx

^ If raider flips scum, you are scum.

If I flip town, and I WILL, you are scum.

If Richard is town, you are town.

What about charlie?

[Xite91]

Fits where? Town or scum?

[Xite91]

As far as I know, raider has not scumhunted. I know I haven't, but at least I'm trying.

Xite is town, regardless of raider's, or my own, flip.

EBWOP^

You know what, go ahead. There's nothing I can do now.

Why don't we wait on CSL?
Richard seems scummier to me, yes CSL is on my nerves and quite scummy himself, but we can push his lynch tomorrow.
I mean seriously, guys, you seem to have selective memory or something, someone is terribly scummy with almost everything they say, one person says a few things that I

would

normally lynch them for (but have my sights set higher IMO) and everyone forgets everything else that happens...

Also,

lol you change it after you get called out on it? Riiiiiiight.

what he said.

Can I have a better explanation than "what he said" two posts in a row???
kthnx

[Xite91]

Or you can add stuff, like they did. It doesn't have to be on that point, CSL

is

pretty scummy without that post, right?
If not then WHY THE HELL IS THERE A WAGON ON HIM??!?!!?!

[Xite91]

No, richard I'm pretty sure that's right

[Xite91]

So, lets go for Richard. I'm waiting to get more of a read on Twomz... right now he just seems off, whether that could be him being scum or scummy town, I'm not too sure
Richard however, will be a burden if town, and if not, well then there ya go

[Xite91]

Right now I would be ok with lynching Twomz or RichardGHP. That or any of the slots that have yet to do anything in this game.

What about CSL?

CSL is just trying to be heard and has nothing to say. I dont have enough of a read to come to a solid conclusion but I would not oppose him being lynched but I do not think he is at the top of those I would rather see gone.

That said, unless it changes he should not be around for end game.

So who would you put at the top of your list? With your unvote of me, I haven't seen you mention a single suspect that I can recall.

o.0?

Right now I would be ok with lynching Twomz or RichardGHP. That or any of the slots that have yet to do anything in this game.

I'm pretty sure that means he suspects them. He even gave reasoning for Twomz
But I'd like his reasoning for Richard, unless I missed it -This calls for a reread!-

[Xite91]

Honestly, I would like a lynch on Richard, like I've been saying.
The policy wagon on SV is eh
IMO, until proven otherwise everyone in here is scum to me. I keep seeing connections where if X is scum then Y is scum and Z is definitely not. Or some other random letter ramblings. Richard at this point would help make those connections a little clearer/better.

[Xite91]

Considering that it goes a bit deeper than that, I'm just saying that you would be a grrrrr-eat lynch for today, mostly cuz you seem really scummy but also cuz of the info I would get from it.
Other than that I'd say I like Twomz or charlie for a lynch, pretty much for the same reason

[Xite91]

remember the whole abc thing I posted earlier? Linking things like that DOES count as info

[Xite91]

waitwaitwait
or else what?
half tempted to avoid the question again P
Even though I'm not sure how I could be more thorough with my answer

You asked what info
my info was different links I can only kind of make sense of right now.
Depending on your flip, those will be a bit clearer.
When they are, I will show them, otherwise they're useless at this point because they will be ignored

[Xite91]

ooh but i wanna know what u were planning to do
That does interest me now

[Xite91]

@ Xite: I understand, although I disagree. Hopefully I will prove myself useful and nonscummy to the town at some later point in town. And if you turn out scum and are messing with me... I WILL find you out and I WILL kill you.

<3 Twomz

Twomz, uhm wha?

Ok, on Page 16, Xite. You said you'd made your case, but weren't voting. What case were you referring to and why didn't you feel the need to vote? Also, you said you were looking at ISOs. On who, and what did you find?

Not sure what you're talking about, will reread soon.
Oh that was an anti-prod post. I thought I was voting Twomz at that point? Maybe I was confused though, dont remember

Ok, starting with Page 19. Did Xite seriously just say that town shouldn't pressure anyone? Wow. I thought you were better than that.

Uhm, no IIRC I didn't say we

shouldn't

pressure town, I think what you're talking about is me saying that you shouldn't distribute your votes even if you could. That it won't pressure people as much because they can see that you have other suspects and push you towards those more. Yes FoS is similar to this, but going, well he has two votes on him and only one on me, so he must not feel as comfortable as a lynch on me. I can't think of how to explain this now, so I hope I made that clear.

next, Hey guys sorry about this but I just spent about 12 hours at the hospital, and then about 9 hours sleeping because of medicine and lack of sleep. Now I'm on fun medication that makes me super loopy so I'm going to try to play the game but I have to warn everyone how bad that could be. That being said, I lack all energy to scumhunt at the moment, so I'll save you guys the trouble unless I feel it necessary to point out something.

[Xite91]

To the game or me? Cuz I pretty much figured that with boh of them, but considering it should only be about 3 days on the meds (then I get to find out that I probably need mucho surgery wheeeeeeee/sarcasm) I don't see how it's that bad

[Xite91]

Hey Rhinox, why don't you say it's so bad?
I mean, that on its own is not the best case ever, but I already had reasons why I wanted him lynched. It's not like it's solely an information lynch. I don't like those.
Why don't you read some stuff before that post? Just sayin

Also, considering your next sentence, it seems like you want Richard out too, so what's your reason for it?

[Xite91]

Shattered and Richard wagons are better, but I don't think they can take off.

If you help support me in it it might take off better, if not, change your vote a day before deadline

Xite, I'll respond to you later.

No you're stalling
I think you should respond to me before you look even scummier

[Xite91]

And CSL went up in mine for piggy-backing

[Xite91]

@pitt - mine too

@ Amished, I would prefer a Richard lynch, considering most of his posts + pessimism + saying that he's just going to follow the crowd.
CSLs recent posts have been disturbing, but I'm starting to think it's CSL being CSL. Either of them would be a good lynch for today, but Richard would be my prefered

[Xite91]

I haven't seen him try, but then again, I haven't read every single one of his games, so I wouldn't know.
I haven't seen anything else from Richard except this game. He worries me that he's playing this way, it gives me a terrible gut feeling aside from the small case on him.
Also, like I said I would get a bit of info from his lynch.

[Xite91]

Holy, why did you say that?
I don't recall a request for you to do so, why did you feel the need to point out "oh hey hey I has case on him!!!!1!!"
Looking for townie points much?
If there was a request, please point it out to me and I will apologize greatly

[Xite91]

I never said a request from me, don't put words in my mouth
usually when someone goes, ohai I made a case on this guy that's gettin a lot of suspicion(without prompting from someone)! It gives me a scum vibe from them.
I understand what you're saying, but you're also giving them a reason to simply wagon by going oh, holy i see what you're saying, vote.
makes it easier for scum to not have to make a case.

[Xite91]

I never said a request from me, don't put words in my mouth

usually when someone goes, ohai I made a case on this guy that's gettin a lot of suspicion(without prompting from someone)! It gives me a scum vibe from them

.
I understand what you're saying, but you're also giving them a reason to simply wagon by going oh, holy i see what you're saying, vote.
makes it easier for scum to not have to make a case.

But then how does this make Holy scum?

answer bolded
i never said scum, scummy however, is a different story

[Xite91]

Sometimes, that can be protown. You don't have to do quotes and all, but point out your reasons in a 1,2,3 ect format. The way you worded it sounded rushed and as I said before, very "hey look at me guys I'm not scum!"
and what is refranced supposed to mean? Just wondering.

[Xite91]

read the game? that's all the advice I can give you

[Xite91]

Twomz - he could be, haven't really been keeping track of him, do remember having a lot of suspicion on him. Will do a reread on him soon though to be sure.
Agreed with raider
CSL - Not sure, he seems to be scummy town, but still could just be scum, not sure how to explain my feelings on him
Agreed with Richard

[Xite91]

Okay, awesome mass post coming right up.

And since I'm so nice, I'll even post all of my responses in this nifty green!

First, Rhinox, since you're going through my iso, why don't you start with 1 instead of 38?

Next, this is going to be a huge response post, so I really can't be bothered to quote him all pretty and stuff every time, so Everything in quotations from now until I say so was said by Rhinox

"Xite: going through your iso...

38: You say that lynching richard will help you make connections.

When asked about it,

39: you backpedal and say richard will be a great lynch because he's scummy and you would get information."

I already had a case on him. I'll post the whole thing at the end of this.

"When asked again what information,

40: you refer back to post 38."

Because I have connections made, but they're long and drawn out and I'd prefer only to have to post half or so of them depending on his flip considering I know for a fact a lot of (bad) player don't read through wall posts of information. I'm waiting for day 2 if he gets lynched because it will be easier on everyone.

"41: you admit you're avoiding the question, and again only refer to vague connections that you refuse to say, only until after richard's flip - when scum can make up whatever they want, and say thats the "connections" they were referencing all along."

Here, I'll post my 41

waitwaitwait
or else what?
half tempted to avoid the question again P

Even though I'm not sure how I could be more thorough with my answer

You asked what info
my info was different links I can only kind of make sense of right now.
Depending on your flip, those will be a bit clearer.
When they are, I will show them, otherwise they're useless at this point because they will be ignored

The capitol P should be a which I pointed out before (not sure if here, though) that for the most part, that's my way of showing that I'm joking instead of posting '/whatever'

Bolded shows you the serious part, and even after that, I post as clearly as possible why I am not saying for the sake of those who don't read all of the thread.

"42: pointless post"

Actually no it's not, I was pushing him to see what he was planning to do, because it seemed like a weak threat he was tacking on there and that can be a very big scumtell sometimes.

"43: admitting to making an anti-prod post, and writing a long excuse filled paragraph to explain potential future bad play and lack of scum hunting - I'm not sympathetic towards RL excuses - replace out or go on V/LA if you can't play up to your potential, if you're going to play, you don't get a pass on being scummy because you're on drugs or anything else."

Don't see the admittance to anti-prod, can you point it out?
I wasn't planning on passing that off. Again, I posted this in all of my games, so I don't remember if I said it was 3 days, that's just like V/LA in a sense. And really? That's just an asshole move saying you're not sympathetic to RL excuses. I was in the hospital for 12 hours, and you know what I did before I was SPED to the emergency room? Checked the mafia game and responded to

everything i could

in

every one of my games

. And you know what I did as soon as I got home? Made sure nothing important was happening in any of my games THEN went to bed. Then when I woke up, the first thing I did was get back on to post that and respond to the games, I was not using it as an excuse to lurk/be scummy/ play to my potential. I was warning you guys in case everything came out jumbled because I was still on morphine at the time.

"45:

Hey Rhinox, why don't you say it's so bad?

I don't understand what you're asking me here."

Honestly, neither do I lol
I think it might supposed to have been why did you say it's so bad, but that's just me guessing in context. That was exactly the kind of post I was warning you against though

"

I mean, that on its own is not the best case ever, but I already had reasons why I wanted him lynched. It's not like it's solely an information lynch. I don't like those.

Unless I missed a post where you explained why Richard is scummy, All I've seen is you calling him scummy, and vaguely claiming you would get some information from his lynch specifically, while refusing to say what information you're looking to get."

Again, will get to that at the end.

"

Why don't you read some stuff before that post? Just sayin

Looking through you're previous posts, you mentioned richard being a burden if town, without justification, and you mentioned that your biggest scumtell was richard jumping on raider's wagon without trying to form his own, but if those were good enough reasons in your opinion to lynch richard, why did you have to go into all the extra justification nonsense about doing it for information, without actually telling us what information specific to richard's lynch you hope to learn?"

Because it wasn't nonsense. I already posted why numerous times. Didn't you ever take english classes in high school where they tell you to put all of your points together so they make more sense? Or are you just trying to make it look like you have more than you really do.

"

Also, considering your next sentence, it seems like you want Richard out too, so what's your reason for it?

He's annoying. He OMGUS-reacts to everyone who glances crossly in his direction. He doesn't believe he can get anyone lynched/won't try to form cases, which is either a crappy townie tell, or a scum tell. But my desire to be rid of him, CSL, and dana is more of a, "which players would the town be better off without" desire, rather than really thinking they're scum. And players I think are scum always get voting priority, which is why I'm voting you."

So, because of what I said earlier about clear concise points, can I get your 1,2,3,4 ect on me?

"In addition to this, since my last post I also think you're really reaching hard in regards to holy. I agree with Amished's interpretation, I don't see anything scum or scummy with what was said.

I understand what you're saying, but you're also giving them a reason to simply wagon by going oh, holy i see what you're saying, vote.
makes it easier for scum to not have to make a case.

So, Richard's scum because you said so and you're voting him, and Holy is scum for pointing out a previous case on someone you already think is scum, which allows scum to hop on the wagon without justification based on Holy's case? something does not compute here..."

It might not compute because you're not reading how I took her post saying she made a case. It seemed a lot like, oh look at me give me town points!

"

I never said a request from me, don't put words in my mouth

usually when someone goes, ohai I made a case on this guy that's gettin a lot of suspicion(without prompting from someone)! It gives me a

scum vibe

from them

.
I understand what you're saying, but you're also giving them a reason to simply wagon by going oh, holy i see what you're saying, vote.
makes it easier for scum to not have to make a case.

But then how does this make Holy scum?

answer bolded
i never said scum, scummy however, is a different story

More backpedaling. Oh, and you did say scum. Scum vibe, precisely. Its right up there in red text."

Okay, so I did say "scum" but IMHO scum vibe = scummy, not scum.
If I thought she were scum, my vote would have been on her
or hell I would even have FoSd her

Okay, no more color because now I am going to go through and get all of my quotes that show my FoS/Case on suspicion

Okay, so reading through my ISO I have to deeply apologize because apparently, I didn't post the whole case on Richard that I thought I did. (AKA I thought I put all of my points together) In which case, I will point out what I did say so that I don't have to make those points again, but then make a much stronger case based on his play.

Uhm, richard, you can try to form your own wagon on someone you see as scummy.
What you did is one of my biggest scumtells to be honest...

Unvote, Vote RichardGHP

It starts, what he did that was my big scumtell was that he voted on a wagon because he didn't think his cases would take off. Not only does it give him a "Legit" reason to vote the wagon, it makes him a liability to town whether or not they're scum.

Believe me, most cases I make only take off when a)

I'm clear

, b) a lot of people are FoSing that person or c) when the game is full of easily convinced newbs.

And, you're by far the leading wagon, so even though my view is pessimistic, I don't think you can validly call it scum-like. There are a couple of other people I'd rather lynch, but it just won't happen.

Then post a case and be clear? lulz
And actually, it is EXTREMELY scum-like



Okay, so richard, csl and either charlie or raider (or maybe both) are scum, I'll give more tells when I can.
So, yeah, lets get more votes on raider{EBWOPd in next post, meant to be Richard} plox? kthnx

...and more...

CSL's last post (beginning + end) seems pretty accurate. Xite's 535 strikes me as

townie pseudo-humour

, as I doubt scum would dare post something quite so horrible.

The middle part is a little odd, though.

PoS: CSL

.

Uhm, aside from the shenanigans thing, I don't see what's humorous about my post...

Just wondering, did he ever answer how it made sense?

So, lets go for Richard. I'm waiting to get more of a read on Twomz... right now he just seems off, whether that could be him being scum or scummy town, I'm not too sure
Richard however, will be a burden if town, and if not, well then there ya go

More reason

Now all of the infolynch was an extra addition to what I already had said. It will give me connections, but I gave reasons why I won't say them until he flips.

Next,

I read this entire exchange as:
Xite91: OMG Richard is mafia!
holycon: I agree that Richard is mafia, and have been saying this for awhile.
Xite91: OMG that's so scummy!

There's just a disconnect there, but I can't see quite put my finger on what it is. The first thing that popped into my head was that Xite was bussing Richard, but after rereading, I don't think that's it -- I really don't think Xite and Richard are partners. But then I'm at a loss as to why Xite would jump on holy for supporting the Richard wagon.

Maybe cuz you're not reading the thread?
I mean, considering that I said it was based on the the way the post was written/ the way she did it a few times...

[Xite91]

EBWOP, I'm sure someone's gonna vote for not using all the same greens

[Xite91]

I lol'd

[Xite91]

Hey, guys, sorry about this but meds are making it hard for me to focus, so I'm saving you guys some trouble.

@Mod, please find me a replacement

[Xite91]

Okay, so!
Sorry about the almost-replacement, I was really spacey from the meds (turned out to be a 1 1/2 day thing, everything's fine now and I'm healthy again ) and I didn't want to ruin anyone else's game experience by being selfish, but now I have no problems and hey, no one replaced me so I'm baaack.

First things first,

Vote: Richard

still convinced he's scum. Doing a reread, but this is the best place for my vote right now IMHO
Also,

IGMEOY Holycon

seems really scummy to me, but at the moment it's just a weird vibe

Next,

Xite's last big response to me and subsequent replacement request makes me feel... meh. Feels like 'townie' to me.

Why? Just wondering

[Xite91]

Warning: This will be a long post.

1) @kmd4390: You claim to use your kill on Shattered Viewpoint early in Day 1. Reading through your ISO, you seem pretty serious about it. Unless I am completely mistaking you, was the kill serious?

---

2)

Also, I'd suggest removing Millar from your list for now, SSBF.

I disagree. Just because millar13 has a beloved princess claim doesn't mean he is excused from his scummy actions. I personally think he'll make a good policy lynch, even with the risk of skipping a Day, unless he shapes up.

---

3) I believe that out of everyone in the bandwagon, I think Amished, Magua, and kmd4390 are the most likely townies, due to the amount of contributations they've made and how they helped find scums.

4)

Twomz:

Despite being a late wagoner, he has a solid chance of being town. He has contributed more then most other people in this game in helping the town. I like how he gave legitimate reasons for voting Shattered Viewpoint, which gives us something to work on.

Diacria giving Twomz a second vote only solidfy my town read on him.

5)

animorpherv1:

I'm getting a very bad vibe from animorpherv1. He didn't really do much Day 1 that helped the town. His vote for CSL at ISO: 7 lacked original thoughts, basically saying he agreed with other people. Now look closer at ISO: 10. He deliberately stated that he would vote raider8169 if the bandwagon got enough votes. He was basically saying "I'll bandwagon raider8169 without good reasons if it gets enough vote! ISO: 11 is unexplained bandwagoning on Shattered Viewpoint. He never put any previous explanation on why Shattered Viewpoint could be scum, instead, went with the "His lynch is better then a no lynch!" excuse, which is crap.

6)

millar13

: The perfect policy lynch. It's best to do it now so we don't have to worry about him in the future. Plus due to his rude behavior in recent games (Like the recently-finished Mini 988: Small Town Mafia and to an extend, this game), we don't have to worry about him disrespecting players anymore. I absolutely hated his hammer vote on Shattered Viewpoint. He gave us absolutely no warning that he was going to hammer him, but did it anyway. No explanation on why he thought Shattered Viewpoint was a good lynch at all. He has also given us very little good contents to analysis. I also dislike his numerous vote switiching at times and his hypocritical statement that he hated RVS, yet he's made RVS comments as well. If we're going to lynch him, we might as well do it ToDay. Plus I think he's scummy. Only reasons why I'm not voting him yet is because lynching him loses a day for the town and that their are scummier people then him.

---

7)

Other thoughts about the game.

Scum reads that didn't join the bandwagons are CSL, Chronopie, and RichardGHP and quality cases have been formed on all three of these people. It seems like CSL isn't even going to try in this game. If he doesn't, then he deserves to die. He has done almost nothing for the town that benefits them and fails to provide a decent defense. Because of this, CSL is my top suspect.

8) My other town reads that weren't on the bandwagon were Xite91 and rhinox. I like how they form original cases against other people and pushes them very well. Check Xite91's push for a RichardGHP's lynch and Rhinox's push for a Chronopie's lynch.

---

9) One of {animorpherv1, CSL, Chornopie, RichardGHP, and millar13} should be lynched ToDay.

10) millar13 is a good policy lynch, although we do lose a Day if his claim turns out to be correct.

11) My town reads are Amished, kmd4390, Twomz, Magua, Xite91, and rhinox.

12) Glad to see you back in the game Xite91.

1) he already said so here
2) So, you'll risk town's biggest asset for a policy lynch?
3) To help find what scum? As far as I recall, we've been through one day and lynched town yesterday...
4) Bolded. Dia was probably like me and hadn't changed her list since she sent it to him (Still deciding who I want to get my vote) Even if she meant to give him them, that should not confirm anything for you unless they were masons that were confirmed to each other.
5) I agree (no pun intended) He has a scum vibe, we'll see if he adds stuff to the game or not though, and I'll decide whether or not to give him my vote (and not in the nice way)
6) Yes he's scummy, but that's how I've come to know millar, he plays VI and he plays it well. Also, again, a vig kill would be much better on him anyway

if

his claim was real, again we'll have to wait and see a bit more before I decide to take a stab at him
7) Again, this is just someone being them, CSL seems to play like this all the time too. But, yes I do agree that he is a good policy lynch if nothing else
8) Uhm, I need to reread rhinox's case but I know this is one of the worst plays I've done tbh. That being said, I pushed my case very poorly, I'd like to know where you see otherwise.
9) I agree, but I'd replace a few people out with others like this
CSL: Twomz
Millar: Holy
Chrono: SSBF
Based almost solely on gut though.
10) Again trying to push the idea of lynching millar, even with the risk of losing a day
11) Why?
12) Thanks! Sorry I had to respond so aggressively

[Xite91]

Vote: Xite

Oh My God, You Suck.

Why is there no votes on him for this?

[Xite91]

K, still reading, will add more after, but you guys are misreading me and I need to let you guys understand

@SSBF

2) I meant the day, not millar, I couldn't care less if millar gets killed, but I'd prefer to

keep

the day
3) Uhm, even the least town-like townies can help find scum, your point seems invalid

[Xite91]

Alright, a lot less on the last page than I suspected.

First thing, about richard, I meant he's been omgusing and not even trying with this game (saying he's just useless too) everyone's talking about policy, so why the hell is he not the top candidate?

I am currently ISOing each and every player, with a scum list to come afterward. I'll leave it up to you guys how you want the cases, so here's my questions for your convenience;

1) Do you want a case on everyone I can make a case on?
a) If not, what would be the number of people (tops on my scum list) you would like to see a case on?
**Disclaimer: Cases will be from top of Llama's player list to bottom with a note (or post depending) afterward of scummiest players I made a case on from most to least**
2) What kind of case would you prefer? Point-by point, basic post by post or just a summarization?
3) Would you like it to be all one mass post, or a single post per player?

[Xite91]

09 Jahudo

Chevre easjo682

I'm confused, who did Jahudo replace then?

[Xite91]

Let's take a look at toothless' Town reads:
Jahudo: Ooh, yes

Also scum reads:
Amished: Fail, but interesting point
EGL: I reserve judgement
Richard: Hmm
Xite: Oh my goodness

I am the most interested in these ones. Explain what each statement means please?
Lols at mine

[Xite91]

EBWOP

I replaced Chevre during night.

Oh, sorry I mixed up games, and thought she came back

Also, my isocapade is taking longer than expected. I plan to stay up all night, so expect it tomorrow

[Xite91]

K responding quickly, more to come tonight

Ythan, take a look:

Idiots. Don't worry about millar today okay? Someone else.

You want us to not be concerned about millar13 for ToDay. But this post directly conflicts with this:

Could you just stop posting until someone vigs you thanks.

You want millar13 to stop posting until he got vigged. That is showing a concern about him posting.

I know you don't like millar13's play and I don't either, but I wanted to point out the contradiction.

Stop fishing plox.

@millar13: Go look up this picture where there is a pregnant mother of about 8 months gestation (in her third trimester) in the background, out of focus due to a feline intruder popping its head in front of the camera, bringing it into focus. Then imagine large a impact font caption on the bottom part of this picture, saying Hypokrit.

@Twomz: That would require me to "work". Aw, do I really have to?

@Pittbunny: For what its worth, toothless' original case on me seems better. Just my 2 cents.

@Xite91: That would require me to "work". Aw, do I really have to, mom?

Incidentally, Ythan is right.

Ani, stop being a dumb. Play or gtfo, so, who's scum?

This next part will be having a lot added to it later

, I wasn't able to read at all last night because I rediscovered skype last night Ani's dad is currently 1000 miles away so needless to say talking to him takes priority over this game. Just posting some of my points to show that I have been doing as I promised. Also, I think I may have found something interesting.


Amished – Replaced docpotter, who had no posts whatsoever
Town read, hes reading the game and posting questions and advancing it, but I have yet to see a strong case from him. I would like to see him push a lynch rather than go “XXXX who’s scum?” over and over again

rhinox replaced cmar, had no posts as well
First post = odd, a request to not lynch him until he’s gotten back into the game. Not a scumtell, just a weird first post.
Post #6, a meta vote on Raider. I don’t much like it because the reason he voted was for a point of view that could be the same no matter what alliance he is. Actually, I just skimmed through some of his old games and, yeah, this is his meta as a townie as well. Rest of the post is snappy talk because of a pushed millar-claim
Post #7, okay makes some sense, but you should have checked before saying all of that (it is his town meta too, as far as I can see, other than the IS bit, but I don’t see that paralleling any of this game either)
Why was your vote still on him at this point?
Post #9, I don’t see the slip, did you ever explain it?
Post #11, not seeing this as too much a problem
Post #12, it’s never ok for town to lose a day, especially early in the game
After a few more posts you start flailing a little.
Post #17, your case against me… an interesting one. The connections I would have made were very very skewed and on my reread wouldn’t have meant much because I realized that they were based mostly on what other people were saying, but it was links like if Richard is scum, what does that make you (probably town was my thoughts on that at the time, not sure now though), or what does that make CSL? (Saw him being scum in this case, don’t remember why, I’ll probably find it in my reread, but you’re only my second ISO.) Or, if he flips town, who is scum? Simple information like that, but it seemed a lot stronger then. Also I had a case on him, I think I made a huge post on this, but even if I didn’t you will get to see all of my views soon enough.
Post #19, Whoa, major backpedaling on me here. Because I uh, made a post back against your case and then replaced out so I’m town? Not that I’m disputing me being town, but that’s some terrible reasoning to me.
Also,

Raider is confusing. He was really the first wagon option that I remember, and it never took off. Usually, early wagons on town tend to take off pretty quickly.

Wait, this actually explains a lot to me. You voted raider, not because of the meta reason, but because early wagons usually take off well? Scum scummy scum scum
Also, ohai, wagon on sv! Lets do it!
NEXT POST FROM HIM

All of a sudden, I'm not liking the SV wagon as much...

I liked his case on twomz, until he stopped pushing it because twomz answered one thing on his case. I really don’t like how he doesn’t seem to have much confidence in his cases at all.
Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if he and chrono were scum and he’s trying to distance by keeping going back to him.

[Xite91]

Okay, so I think I'm doing this according to the advice given to me.

Biggest thing I saw was that active lurking needs to stop.

I’d like to see more from these players/ Haven’t gotten a good read yet

Nachomamma(really have nothing to say about him yet)
Ythan (also, his way of play this game is making me… uncomfortable, there’s no right way to say it, but I just don’t like it)
Chronopie (seems town, but I want more content dammit)
CSL (Keep reading for an interesting look at him)
EGL
Millar (as in stuff that actually helps the town for you)
Magua (seems town, but not too positive yet)
Locke Lamora (seems town as well, but with only two posts not sure yet)
Kmd (I am disappoint in how poorly you seem to be playing, what happened to how awesome you always tell me you are? Of course, I could be a little biased here considering you’re my mafia daddy )
Ani (Play or gtfo)
Charlie (same as ani)
Richard (same as Charlie)
Pittbunny (still deciding on you)

K, now,

CSL

-looks at votecount-

...

After all this time, I forgot millar was playing.

Sorry, but I won't play with him. You all need someone who will.

Mod: Due to circumstances that have arisen a few days ago, I am unable to play if millar13 is in the same game as I. This will be my last post in this game. Replace me, please.

I'm going to re-read, and stuff.

And I'm going to ignore millar if he is talking about stupid stuff. His meta is poor.

Oh, I disagree with Rhinox.

I'd prefer more policy lynches.

VOTE: millar13

This

VOTE: millar13

Wait what?

Oh, and Jahudo screams town to me.

So that’s my post on thoughts in the game so far, Next I’ll have a mass post including ISO thoughts on these players

raider8169
Super Smash Bros. Fan
Twomz
RichardGHP
holycon

[Xite91]

Yeah, I meant charlie, but the same could go for ani because I'm thinking the same thing about him

[Xite91]

1) Xite: How is SSBF fishing?

2) I can link you to some of my games where I've flailed. I have not flailed at all in this game. What flailing were you refering to?

3) Seriously, you responded to all my points in a logical manner. And rather than just focusing on defending my points, you moved on to scumhunting. Thats why the response felt townie to me. I wanted to move on to lynching chrono, and responding to your post would've been a distraction and unnecessary. Also, you replaced out, so responding point by point would have been kind of pointless anyways.

4) "Wait, this actually explains a lot to me. You voted raider, not because of the meta reason, but because early wagons usually take off well? Scum scummy scum scum" - what? explain please.

5) I wouldn't exactly call that a fair representation of my thoughts on the SV wagon...

6) Same question I asked Locke: What's the problem with that post?

7) "I really don’t like how he doesn’t seem to have much confidence in his cases at all." - What makes you think I don't have confidence in my cases?

8) "Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if he and chrono were scum and he’s trying to distance by keeping going back to him." - Thats awfully pretentious. You could say that about anyone who expresses suspicion on anyone. For example, you and richard are scum partners trying to distance because you keep going back to him. Its mutual distancing because he OMGUSed you for no reason. Every else is scum partners with CSL, charlie, and millar - they're distancing by trying to lynch them. etc, etc.


9) wait wait wait...

Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if he and chrono were scum and he’s trying to distance by keeping going back to him.

Chronopie (seems town, but I want more content dammit)

Explain this inconsistency.

1) Oops, that was directed at Ythan, but I was looking at a quote from ssbf, so I said ssbf. And now that I look at it again, it wasn't him fishing so much as directing a vig-kill, so Ythan stop doing that.
2) posts 14-16 mostly
3) But for the sake of everyone else, you could at least respond to what you feel is important.
4) The two posts that I put side by side should explain that
5) Then what was?
6) Because the post RIGHT BEFORE THAT was you voting for him, it's hard to explain but you jumped right on a wagon out of nowhere, then you said you regretted it but didn't change it.
7) Because you've jumped into them, make a case, and then you jumped out of them just as quick.
8) Just a link if one of you turn out to be scum
9) Again, just a link. Also, I didn't say he

was

either. I said that he feels townie to me, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was scum. (sometimes the towniest player in the game is actually scum. In fact, it happens a lot) Also, I said I need more from him because he's doin an aweful fine job of lurking.

[Xite91]

I come back and see this post, nice. Any reasoning or are you just trying to be scummy?

Hey, raider, any reasoning or are you trying to be scummy?

I'd be much more comfortable if you actually gave us a mafia list as opposed to a town list. Now granted, I don't have a problem with town lists, but I highly prefer to see mafia lists instead, as mafia lists (With explanation) make your suspects known to us.

I think he just said that he wasnt sure who he thought was mafia. It's really hard to figure that out in this game tbh

I intended to prove that he was an inventor. I expected that other players would believe as I did that it was most likely a town role.

This could be waaaaay out there (considering that I don't think scum would be this stupid) but maybe just maybe this is a setup from the two of them to look really town by having twomz claim inventor and Ythan get the "vig kill" from him. Just sayin
Also,

Twomz is town.

Kmd, Twomz is town. I said so already.

I intended to prove that he was an inventor. I expected that other players would believe as I did that it was most likely a town role.

Something about these don't sit right with me

Charlie, CSL, Chronopie, RichardGHP... there are cases up on all these players by multiple people, both voting for them and voting for others.

EGL, Ythan, kmd4390, holycon, raider8169, chronopie, millar13... none of these players are voting for anyone, that needs to change.

Either vote for one of the above

or make a case on someone else and vote for them. A third of the remaining town isn't voting, that's inexcusable this far into the day with so much discussion being made.

Bolded, don't like it. Another one I can't place my finger on though

1) Pittbunny, you should believe that I was gambiting (and not backtracking) because I said so. 2) As a townie I have no reason to make real OMGUS votes and attempt to cover it up afterwards. 3) As scum, it would be a nail in the coffin. 4) The only

logical

explanation is gambiting. The outcome of the gambit is not indicative of alignment.

1) Oh, well that's a

great

reason. No really, it's the best one I've heard all day. And I'm a pink unicorn that can only play this game because I had a seat specially made for me that supports my whole back and a computer that has keys big enough for my hooves. No really, that's what I said, believe it.

2) AtE much?

3) And then WIFOM?

4) There are so many illogical things I've seen from you that honestly, that's what I expect.

Next time you want to do a gambit *rolls eyes* do it subtly, you get much better results.

Pittbunny is right up there too, but I don't expect to be able to convince anyone of that right now.

You might if you push it a little, also I kind of see it.

"You should believe that I was gambiting because I said so"? Wow, Richard, I lost all faith and trust in you.

After the town decides what to do with CSL/Charlie, I'm coming after you.

@ Kmd: You think I'm scummy because of a) My vote on Richard day 1 was explained b) No one voted for me and c) My CSL vote, correct?

Bolded. Another thing that doesn't sit right with me. Damn, I'm just gettin bad reads everywhere. Maybe they'll make sense after I reread and/or get some sleep

In regards to your @Kmd, wow, just wow.

1) Also, not faith, common sense. Neither Ythan nor anyone has the unequivocal right to declare something as BS without consultation or an apparent willingness, however slight, to change viewpoints. Presumption of guilt is infinitely inferior to presumption of innocence.

2) Preview Edit: Get over yourself, Twomz.

1) Uh what? I'm pretty sure you're an idiot. What you've been saying has been bs, that's all there is to it. And it depends on the thing, I mean, what about a death row type thing? I'm pretty sure presumption of guilt is a bit more of a problem, no pun intended.
2) I could say the same to you

1) Xite: you decided what you think of CSL yet? Would you lynch him today, or should it wait for tomorrow again?

2) Holycon: you think going after repeatedly scummy players is beating a dead horse?

3) Rhinox: ok, that seems fair. Just wanted to see your reasoning on it.

1) I still think it's just him being him, lynch him if you want, but I won't support it, besides richard and rhinox are much better choices.
2) i lol'd
3)

I still don't like it tbh. @Rhinox, why not unvote?

going back and ISOing you

again

I realized that you never voted him, so I feel less inclined to not like what you said, but you could still have pushed for him to not get lynched. It might have helped a bit.

K, so right now I have decided that this is the best place to keep my vote for now

Unvote, Vote richard

(I think I may have already been doing that, but eh too lazy to check)
I'm sorry I haven't been around all day, so I'm trying really hard to catch up. Still working on my ISO reads too. They will be coming soon to a computer near you though.

[Xite91]

Mod: Replace me please

.

Otherwise the integrity of this game and myself are about to become compromised. One more smug comment out of Xite or Ythan would do it, I think. I don't want to be in a game where people think like that.

By the way, don't even bother posting anything along the lines of:

"Oh dis guys scum bcuz he quit cuz he got voted for!!1!1!!"

Uhm, can we just lynch him? It would make things a lot easier at this point.
Oh, and what's wrong with smug comments?

[Xite91]

I think lynching him would be easier on the mod and better for town anyways, so lets do it?

[Xite91]

raider8169

I was very amused by his first couple of posts. He seemed like someone who was using this game the way it was supposed to be used, for fun. I enjoyed how much he enjoyed it.

Post #12 I do dislike him saying that he isn’t going to try (aka bother getting reads on people this early) because it’s never too early to start, but I don’t think it was vote-worthy, like I said, he seems to just be enjoying the game.

Post #14 …Huh? Annoying isn’t really a reason to lynch someone, detrimental to town, yes. Annoying, not so much.
I agree on the second part though.
Nothing else really worth commenting on, though. Will do a vote analysis on him soon because I’m pretty sure he’s town.

Super Smash Bros. Fan
This is just in rvs, but it amused me that you asked me why I voted him out of policy and then asked Dia why alt-guessing was important.

Post #5 haha but you twisted your words, you even made them into someone elses words

Post #9 I’m pretty sure you don’t ever have to worry about an RVS quick hammer, people will back off and if not, it does give you some information going into the next day anyways, so it can be helpful.

What's preventing you from roleclaiming now? Sure it wouldn't be a good idea until Lylo/Mylo or when you're at L-1 and have to claim (With rare exceptions), but if you want to claim, feel free to.

Rolefishing at its finest.

Reads = information. And speak for yourself.

But the thing is, you didn't explain your scum reads. Therefore, we've gotten almost nothing out of it.

Knowing reads people get are important, especially when you see how they flip. Reasons are usually important on this too, but as long as they’re not pushing for a lynch, I’m okay with knowing suspicions without knowing where they come from, it gives me a reason to look back and go, well why do they think that? And townies are supposed to do that anyways.

THEN you decide to tunnel Dia in your next obscene wall post which is all i seem to see from you

If you were talking about that last post, you should have noticed that I made a response to EGL at the end of that paragraph.

I lol'd a little
Post #15 WIFOM from Raider? I didn’t see it.
Also,
“I'm actually seeing a decent case on raider8169 being formed. A few posts from his hasn't been very good and Rhinox's case against raider8169 is nice as well. I like the bandwagon on both raider8169 and Shattered Viewpoint. I'm still suspicious of Diacria, but his play is improving. Unvote

Shattered Viewpoint and raider8169 are scummy, but raider8169 is scummier. Vote: raider8169”
Whaaaaa?

Still don’t like your idea of splitting votes

Post #20 don’t like the way you jumped on this wagon. At all
Then next post you make a poor case on him and ride off of another one. Another don’t like.

Post #23 wait, wasn’t there still like 4 days till deadline when you made this post? Also, I’ve seen a bandwagon change that quick. But do you support lynching me, or was this just something you wanted to sit on the fence about?

Post #24 seriously easy way out with that list.

Post #25 tl;dr on that post a second time, I made my points on that though.
Okay, I’m done making points on him, he’s scum can we lynch him? kthnxbai

Okay, so this is ridiculously tedious and making me lose interest in this game, so the rest will just be analysis’ of each person. If you want details, then I’ll give them.

Twomz

Almost obviously claiming inventor, meh we’ll see. I like his bet, makes me believe that he believes in his cases a bit more. This could be either because he’s convinced there is scum there or he is scum with one other person that was on it, not sure which one yet. Was there an inventor in the first game? Were they scum or town? Although, we can’t base all mechanics for this game on that one, otherwise, why wouldn’t he just make them open?

RichardGHP

Just rereading him made me remember why I pushed so hard for his lynch. Yeah, he’s still scum. So how bout we lynch him too?

Holycon

Seems to be trying to pretend to scumhunt, but not really doing much of anything. I don’t like

her

much either

Vote analysis (mostly in regards to raider)

~there is no scene to post

@Mod, why was this in your post #5? Just wonderin

Shattered Viewpoint (4) -

nachomamma8

, danakillsu,

EGL

,

Chevre

Then
raider8169 (6) -

Charlie

,

rhinox

,

Amished

,

Pittbunny

,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

,

Chevre

raider8169 (7) -

Charlie

,

rhinox

,

Amished

,

pittbunny

,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

,

Chevre

,

nachomamma8

raider8169 (8) -

Charlie

,

Rhinox

,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

,

Chevre

,

nachomamma8

,

RichardGHP

,

CSL

,

Pittbunny

raider8169 (6) -

Charlie

,

Chevre

,

nachomamma8

,

RichardGHP

,

CSL

,

kmd4390

then
raider8169 (5) -

Charlier

,

Chevre

,

nachomamma8

,

RichardGHP

,

CSL

Shattered Viewpoint (4) - Ythan,

EGL

, Magua,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

Shattered Viewpoint (4) - Ythan,

EGL

, Magua,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

Shattered Viewpoint (12) - Ythan,

EGL

, Magua,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

,

Amished

,

Charlie

,

kmd4390

, holycon, towmz, animorpherv1,

pittbunny

, millar13

Okay, so the color coding is... interesting. I didn't give color for anyone that only showed up once or for people that only showed up in the same spot (ythan, magua) I was running outta colors lol

I don't like the way pitt jumped off and then back on the raider wagon, I get the joke on me, but it took him some time to go back, it was... odd considering the way the wagon was going when he got back on, then the jump onto the sv wagon made it worse. He seems like scum to me just with vote analysis

Would like to lynch at this point;

Richard
Rhinox
SSBF
Holycon
Pittbunny
animorpherv1
Charlie

I want to look more deeply into these based on voting

Amished
kmd4390
holycon
towmz
millar13

[Xite91]

Holycon

Seems to be trying to pretend to scumhunt, but not really doing much of anything. I don’t like

her

much either

I"m pretending to scum hunt how so?

Read your ISO, you'll see what I mean, I'd post the whole case and all but my internet is really failing and I don't know how much time I have to type this up.

@Mod LA until my roommate shoves a foot up cox's ass

If not for the fact that CSL and Charlie are so scummy, I would switch my vote now.

placeholder... placeholder

What's preventing you from roleclaiming now? Sure it wouldn't be a good idea until Lylo/Mylo or when you're at L-1 and have to claim (With rare exceptions), but if you want to claim, feel free to.

Rolefishing at its finest.

Please explain why this is rolefishing.

You ask him why he didn't, then go, oh but you shouldn't, but really you can. You cover all your bases. And you still ask him to claim.

Post #20 don’t like the way you jumped on this wagon. At all.

I had a stronger read on Shattered Viewpoint then CSL at the time. I didn't have much to base off of CSL but I felt there was a lot more meat to the Shattered Viewpoint's bandwagon.

So do you follow the crowd all the time or just in mafia?

Then next post you make a poor case on him and ride off of another one. Another don’t like.

Excuse me? ISO: 21 was not my case on Shattered Viewpoint. Heck, I even said that I could form a decent case against him and looking at my next post, I believe I did.

Didn't see it, which might be explained if it was the one i did the tl;dr in which case I already fought with you on that one,

Post #23 wait, wasn't there still like 4 days till deadline when you made this post? Also, I’ve seen a bandwagon change that quick. But do you support lynching me, or was this just something you wanted to sit on the fence about?

Obviously, I do not support your lynch, as I do have a town read on you. Also, me confusing twelve hours and four days for deadlines was an error in my part.

then why didn't you correct it? You saying that caused a lot of people to rush unnecessarily and lost town information IMHO

Post #24 seriously easy way out with that list.

This is coming from someone that suspect CSL, RichardGHP, and millar13. Out of the four suspects I've mentioned in ISO: 24, only millar13 is really an easy target, which is why I dropped the case on him. The other three have quality cases put against them that makes them worthy of being lynched. I haven't simply sheeped off other people's case either. I have made my own effort toward trying to get my top five suspects {Charlie, CSL, RichardGHP, animorpherv1, and Chronopie in order from most suspected to least suspected} lynched.

Yeah, but it seems to me like you don't suspect someone until there's already a decent amount of suspicion on them.

[Xite91]

You ask him why he didn't, then go, oh but you shouldn't, but really you can. You cover all your bases. And you still ask him to claim.

I didn't say he shouldn't role claim, just said it wasn't a good idea. I also did not ask him to claim at all, I just said if he wanted to claim, he could. I would never ask a person to claim where he was at.

Yeah, but it seems to me like you don't suspect someone until there's already a decent amount of suspicion on them.

As said above, I do not always follow the crowd. My case on animorpherv1 is an example. I was the very first person to suspect him and now he is starting to get the attention he deserves.

First quote. You asked him "Why don't you" IIRC which could be considered a push to have him claim, and then if anyone asked about it, you had all of your bases covered to say that you weren't pushing for him to if/when he did.

Second. Uhm there actually were points made on him/suspicions cast;

lol you change it after you get called out on it? Riiiiiiight.

what he said.

Can I have a better explanation than "what he said" two posts in a row???
kthnx

This is you before everything (except the one I already posted ^)

I'm going to say that there are scums on the Shattered Viewpoint bandwagon. My suggestion is that we look at the last five people on his bandwagon. People should note that on the last day of Day 1, the bandwagon shifted furiously to him, eventually getting him lynched without giving Shattered Viewpoint the oppertunity to claim.

As for my scum reads, they are the following:
chronopie
CSL
RichardGHP
millar13

One of these four should be lynched ToDay. I'll also look very closely at raider8169 to see if he's another worthy lynch candidate, although he has been improving.

I'll look at my four suspect's ISO to see where my vote will go ToDay.

then

Ok, I need to look at this game pretty closely when I can. Not sure why Elli gave his vote to Twomz, but meh. I'm assuming multiple scum on the Shattered wagon. Curious why Smash Bros said the same thing, but only one of his four suspects was on that wagon. Between Amished/Twomz/Ani/Pittbunny, we'll probably net 2 or 3 scum. I'd bet money (or my avatar) on this. Then again, FL has first dibs at my avatar if he's ever around.

Ythan also grilled him a bit.

then you make the post with this in it

I nagree partially, but it is always better to have a lynch, information wise. When I noticed CSL lynch was going nowhere, I deicded to get the lynch going.

We had at least three more days left to decide on a lynch, so there was time for you to help town convince that CSL should be lynched Yesterday. Also, did you suspect Shattered Viewpoint at all. If so, why didn't you explain why you thought he was a good alternate lynch to CSL?

---

animorpherv1:

I'm getting a very bad vibe from animorpherv1. He didn't really do much Day 1 that helped the town. His vote for CSL at ISO: 7 lacked original thoughts, basically saying he agreed with other people. Now look closer at ISO: 10. He deliberately stated that he would vote raider8169 if the bandwagon got enough votes. He was basically saying "I'll bandwagon raider8169 without good reasons if it gets enough vote! ISO: 11 is unexplained bandwagoning on Shattered Viewpoint. He never put any previous explanation on why Shattered Viewpoint could be scum, instead, went with the "His lynch is better then a no lynch!" excuse, which is crap.

---

HoS: animorpherv1

By the way, where did that case go?

[Xite91]

EBWOP
Holy, I'll get back to you later (I'm running out the door to the airport in 5)

[Xite91]

Mod: If you haven't found a replacement for me yet, hold fire. I might still be able and willing to play.

I am a CPR Doctor. I am like a regular doctor, with the exception that if I target someone who is not being killed, they die. It is for this reason that I didn't protect anyone last night. Not really sure if it's even worth keeping me around, since I'm likely to end up either killing townies or sitting on my butt doing nothing for most of the game. Do with the claim what you will.

Kind of funny how you do the same thing that two other people did. Both of which had suspicion on them and both of which lost a lot of that suspicion when they came back. Also, I think the claim is a joke in the sense that it's practically you saying you have a kill to use. This might be a pretty concrete excuse for "accidentally" killing townies, if you weren't so scummy.

@Twomz IGMEOY

[Xite91]

Xite, this ^^^^ is why I switched my vote. It's funny you said you got your eye on me cause we basically said the same thing in our posts, I just unvoted and put my votes back on charlie >.>

The claim is believable but also fakeable (oops, I killed ___ last night, guess no one tried to kill them)... although I agree w/ nacho that it's basically another vig for the town.

Unvote, vote: Charlie

for now.

Anyone have any reason to doubt the claim or wants to continue with the Richard lynch?

Or can we move on down the line?

Bolded is why I said IGMEOY that and my ISO on you. It was... too neutral. I don't know how to explain it.

Next, If richard is scum, he can direct the kill at a scummy townie, say oh well he was scummy because *case scumbuddies give him because he's so unsure his cases will take off* or *case he makes, it's not that hard* Or he could say that he tried to protect someone and that person didn't die because someone might have tried to kill them.
Even with the second one, his scumbuddies could kill someone because, hey there were two kills last night, and we have no idea how many nk based abilities there are (especially with an inventor/doctor roles/roleblockers, there could be any of them) And I'm sure getting people to claim who they killed/protected would be the worst way to try and figure out if Richard is scum. Just saying.
Honestly, there's no way we can be sure he's telling the truth. Also, I REALLY don't believe the claim at all.

Consider this an intent to vote/lynch richard, but before I just run in and vote I want to catch up on a few other things since my last post and make sure of the VC first.

Another time you've backed up a lynch without actually placing a vote. You're playing too safe, young one

[Xite91]

@ Xite: Understandable, I try not to sit on the fence but when you try to narrow down the field and assume "guilty before innocent" it can seem pretty neutrally.

Which was the point of IGMEOY instead of anything else. I'm waiting to see if you become scummy.

To everyone saying we should give Richard the opportunity: are you definitely going to simply lynch him if no kill appears from him tomorrow?

Considering that only one kill happened last Night and that I highly doubt it's a one scum-faction game, I'm going to assume that the second scum kill was blocked. So I'm assuming that the game would need a 3rd kill to easily prove RichardGHP's claim. That doesn't mean if there's only two kills, RichardGHP is without a doubt lying and must be lynched. If one of those deaths were on his suspects, that would be evidence that RichardGHP's claim could be true. However, if none of the Night Kills Night 2 sound like they came from a CPR Doctor, then RichardGHP is probably lying and should be lynched.

And how exactly do you plan to prove any of that? Just wondering

Not to mention the way he's been playing I can almost guarantee that he's going to be nothing but a problem to the town as a kind of vig (considering how he's been playing) And if he's lying then he's probscum and should be lynched anyway.

[Xite91]

@Ythan - I agree. That's what I was trying to say, there's almost no way you can completely prove that he's telling the truth

@Kmd - Did I ever tell you how much I simply adore you? That's an awesome idea.

Damn preview edit
Since he can't I can't think of any other way to prove it, so again back to lynching him?

preview edit again

Vote Count

~tomorrow

I lol'd

[Xite91]

Perhaps KMD will tell us why that part of his role PM that says he can't protect himself is interesting.

Because it was such a quick answer maybe? I thought it was interesting as well.

Stupid RL, catching up now, anything interesting happen?

People not voting Charlie are now haunted by 'bad juju'. This usually results in a drunken night of regrettable sex followed by at least one STD, also pimples.

Hoshitreally?

Unvote, Vote Charlie

No i'm just kidding, I did lol though

Unvote, Vote Richard

That's where my vote will stay for the remainder of the day, my promise to you good citizens.

And how exactly do you plan to prove any of that? Just wondering

Let's say that he attempts to attack his top suspect (In his case, Chronopie). If he successfully manage to kill his top suspicion, that will be evidence that RichardGHP might be speaking the truth, especially if said suspect flips scum. He will then have to explain to us why he killed his top suspect and do it decently. If all the kills doesn't look like it came from RichardGHP, then we will lynch him the very next Day, although we can use the oppertunity to find a second scum.

But if there's one way to truly prove if RichardGHP's claim is correct, it is if he said he successfully managed to protect a person from a kill. If that were to happen, not only would we have a confirmed townie, RichardGHP would likely be town as well. Of course if we kill him and he flips scum, we can assume that his so-called top suspicion is scum as well.

@SSBF: Have you only played one game with Charlie?

You are correct, just one game. He was town in that game as well and his play here definently doesn't resemble his play in that game.

Except you're forgetting about all the things that could be wrong, like him "proving" he's townie by "protecting" someone (he could, ya kno, LIE) or there could be a role-blocker and there's all sorts of things honestly.
Also, I truly do agree with amished, SSBF is scum, probably WITH Richard.
As for the possible other scumgroup, I honestly believe Rhinox is involved (or he's in with ssbf and richard obviously) but we can take care of that after we get these two scummers.

[Xite91]

lulz at Ythan
Next, SSBF, I like your contradictions. they're awesome.
Moar tomorrow I'm too tired from work to do much more than this.

Richard is still the best lynch, there is no way to prove his claim until he's dead. Think about that, he asked to replace out, then goes, wait, I'll stay here's my claim in the same post. ("Maybe if this works I can stay alive?") Its something that's hard to counter, and totally likely in a large theme game. Just sayin.
I could totally get behind a SSBF lynch.
More reads will come later

[Xite91]

Ben? And didn't you get your one shot from Twomz? That was d2, the claim from millar was on d1

[Xite91]

@SSBF - that before you said that you wouldn't mind losing a day to lynch millar, but now you're saying you would?
@Pitt - I was going to bring up the same thing actually. There's way too many possibilities. I really think that Richard should be lynched today

[Xite91]

Disagree. Would you lynch a claimed Vig? If not, would you lynch a claimed Vig+? It seems far more useful for Rich to be alive tonight and provide information by actions rather than to lynch him and be less able to interpret night actions.

If there wasn't a way to prove it and he;
1) Has been playing AtE + Scummy + lurker
2) Did something TWO OTHER PLAYERS DID that got attention off of them, and seemed even to make people think they were more town (even though they had legit reasons IIRC not RAAAAAAAAAAGE - also it was actually for other reasons that at least one looked town afterward)
3) In the VERY SAME POST he decides to claim something that could be an amazing thing to help town? And no one questions that?
4) Plus lets get into a bit of WIFOM if you will, this could be richard as scum, then he can;
a. Direct the kill (OHAI the person you told me to kill is dead, does i get cookie?)
b. NK someone else and just *say* he defended them, but someone else might have tried to nk him
c. Not kill him and someone else tries to kill him, he said he did, other person says they did, we kill Richard and probably catch scum, but hey a pr is now outed, and one that CAN help town
The list goes on and on and on and on...... my point is that we have no real way of knowing that it's real or fake and honestly they way he did it I have absolutely no belief that he's telling the truth.

Magua, I believe you're attempting to read me through a mix of playstyle analysis and content analysis. No trouble with content analysis,

but the playstyle reads are unreliable.

You say I don't back up my cases. Is that a good indicator to tell someone's alignment? Town can follow who they believe to be town as well. (If you want a reference, go check L4D Mafia.)

I'll mention here and now that KMD closely resembles someone from that previously completed game, I'm going along the idea that this is what is happening now. He ended up being town and based on this I'm comfortable labelling KMD town as well.

If the method works, use it again.

lolwut?

[Xite91]

What, I can't apply past experience here? Even if a method is risky and unreliable, I can't go ahead and do it anyway? I do what I must because I can.

Considering the BLARING contradiction? You don't want people to use the same type of method to lynch you? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Changing my stance on the RichardGHP's claim. To be honest, I think RichardGHP could be lying after all. I just realized that if RichardGHP is scum, scum can forgo a Night Kill so RichardGHP can say "I protected this person who was attacked by the Mafia.". He could say that one of his scum buddies was protected by him. If town were to fall into this trap, that's two scums we're very unlikely to ever get rid of.

This is about what you just did
What I about did in response

Oh, by the way, tomorrow, I'm coming after you.

[Xite91]

EBWOP
About *what i did in response

[Xite91]

@Xite91 (#1096): Okay, wait a minute:

I admit that RichardGHP could be lying about his claim and gave what I thought was a plausible scenario to supposedly confirm him if he was scum. And now you're saying I'm a brick wall? I really don't see the message here and it doesn't really make that much sense to me.

I lol'd so fricken hard. Not gonna lie
It was that obvious statement is obvious? I'm not even gonna try to explain the picture. If you don't get it you never will, anyways I had pointed out that scenario plus like 3-4 others or something a few posts before you posted that. you should look at it

[Xite91]

Damn, and here I was thinking I was going to start the wagon on SSBF, way to ruin it with a terrible reason Chrono.
Anyways, here are the 4 people I would love to lynch today, from highest want to lowest.
Richard (obviously, but it looks like that isn't going to happen. Boo )
SSBF (I've been pointing out things from him this whole time, if it's really that big a deal, though, I can go thru and point out where I did this/add more)
Rhinox (Read my ISO for case on him. Would rather push the two above him, though)
Kmd (Not playing how I've seen him play as town whether I was playing or not/ not really contributing)

Everyone keeps jumping off the Richard wagon though, So I will go ahead and try to get one started on SSBF.

[Xite91]

Whooo-hooo pbp on SSBF!!!
Except this time, I'm gonna be nice and only point out important posts. Makes things easier on the eyes, it does!

2 - Asking about my policy vote on Kmd
3 - Asking Dia why they're suggesting alts? Wait, do you remember what you just asked a post ago?
4 - As opposed to all the times people haven't explained their votes? Poor reason #2, and then not looking at the reasoning for her vote? If you look at why charlie voted her, it's not so much OMGUS anymore.

Hey everyone. Twomz and Nacho give me scum vibes. Diacria needs to die regardless of alignment. Millar is town.

Odd, I think toothless abd Nacho gave me town vibes. Agreed on the other two statements though.

UNVOTE: CSL
VOTE: Diacria

And there it is.

5 - Why did you need to defend yourself for that?
6 - Here's where you start throwing spaghetti (I think I defined this before, but if not, it's that you throw a little suspicion on anyone that could be considered even slightly scummy and seeing what sticks, but waiting to vote any of them until one gets a bit more suspicion on them, then saying hey, I had a case on them all along, see?)
7 - You don't get to dictate these things ya kno (See post 5 of his in ISO)
8 - Mafia theory, gaming the mod
...
11 - More throwing spaghetti, the

non

request for millar to lynch
12 - Case on Dia (who's list I'm going to look more closely at since she was on the NKs)
13 - Teehee, his response to my telling him I saw his techniques on throw and check was, oh I didn't tunnel Dia, I made a post to EGL too.
14 - But claims can also hurt the town. Just sayin.
15 -

I dislike ISO: 27 from raider8169. The second paragraph is basically WIFOM splattered all over the place. In the third paragraph, he continues to make a bad argument in terms of passing votes around.

Scumtells are done more likely by scum then town but if that was really the case why is it that we are most likely going to lynch a townie day one then scum? In short its because the scum tells add up to accurately gauge someone instead of someone just jumping out day one saying "Hey everyone look at me I'm scum!" Attacking other people is how the game moves forward. Its natural but forcing that gets the game sidetracked and instead of really scum hunting someone is going to get lynched for some stupid reason. Right now there is not a real vote on me. Those that are have been just trying to make a bandwagon and are followers. None of them are scum hunting. Right now I think I am a good place to have a vote on simply because it can be easily disguised as an attempt at scum hunting.

Is this what you were talking about? Point out the WIFOM, I dare you.
Also, he makes a good point. I really couldn't find the reason that people were voting him no matter how hard I looked.

1) I don't like your frequent vote changing style that went on until ISO: 22, as most of your votes appeared pointless. ISO: 17 sounds like appeal to emotion, which I also note.

---

2)

I'm actually seeing a decent case on raider8169 being formed. A few posts from his hasn't been very good and Rhinox's case against raider8169 is nice as well.

I like the bandwagon on both raider8169 and Shattered Viewpoint. I'm still suspicious of Diacria, but his play is improving.

Unvote

Shattered Viewpoint and raider8169 are scummy, but raider8169 is scummier.

Vote: raider8169

1) He changed his vote there too. In big bolded letters, on you actually. How could you miss it? How is that AtE? All it did for me was make me laugh.
2) Bolded. So, you went with Raider because he had a better case on him? So what you're saying is that he was the safer vote?

17 - Or it's easier to mask yourself as scum. Just think about it.
18 -

Passive lurkers should be either A): left alone and recieve a replacement or B): be pressured to reduce contents. People with no posts cannot receive analysis based on there gameplay, so it makes sense to put them at a null read until contents from the slot is produced.

I am not by any means supporting a lynch on lurkers who don't post, that's voting someone based off a null tell, but that does not mean we should not look for scummy people just because two people haven't posted.

Scummiest suspects shouldnt happen until late day one or better yet mid day two. That is my opinion and I think its better then tunneling in on someone day one for their opinions just because what you think is different from me. Those are not reasons to lynch someone and so far that is the case on me. Chalk it up to me voting a bunch of other people during RVS or whatever to make yourself feel better but at least take some effort in trying to kill me and come up with a real case.

Actually, it is best to find a scummiest suspect as soon as possible. You are able to push them further, make a better case on them, and not only that, we gain more information out of scum hunting as soon as possible. Plus if the person flips scum, you are able to look for connections between that person and the scumbag.

Hell yeah I love being lynched day one with no real reason!

I already pointed out that I found your ISO: 27 scummy due to the

second

paragraph basically being WIFOM. Is that not a reason to lynch someone? I also agree to the general case on you.

Bolded. Lolwut?
Underlined. I thought it was the first paragraph that you found WIFOM-ridden?

20 - You went the easy route with those three. I thought Raider was scummier? Where did that case go anyways? Oh, nevermind I see that his recent play is now townier. That's funny, he seemed to be playing the same to me
21 -

Everyone, switch your vote to Shattered Viewpoint if you truly think he won't benefit the game.

Wait, not if you think he's scum? Noted
22 - Easy case is easy
23 - You seemed really willing to vote me. Why is that? Do I seem like scum? I think I asked this before
24 -

I'm going to say that there are scums on the Shattered Viewpoint bandwagon. My suggestion is that we look at the last five people on his bandwagon. People should note that on the last day of Day 1, the bandwagon shifted furiously to him, eventually getting him lynched without giving Shattered Viewpoint the oppertunity to claim.

As for my scum reads, they are the following:
chronopie
CSL
RichardGHP
millar13

Wait, huh? First, weren't you the one that said hey, everyone switch your vote to shattered if you don't think he'll benefit town (Not if you think he's scum, mind you)

Shattered Viewpoint (12) - Ythan, EGL, Magua, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Amished, Charlie, kmd4390,

holycon, towmz, animorpherv1, pittbunny, millar13

Next, bolded are the last 5 on the wagon. Now lets see who matches up to your list...
OHAI MILLAR!
Yup, that's it. Interesing

25 - A slight change in suspicions here,
Vote: CSL
HoS: animorpherv1
FoS: chornopie, RichardGHP, and millar13

Where'd ani come from? I guess you just realized that you missed your whole 5 people list thing and decided to add one?

I responded to 26 already
27 - Good call on what? I think this is what we call buddying up good sir.
Anyways, responded to the rest of that. This seems like OMGUS behavior
29 - Case on charlie
"Too Long, Didn't Read Versions:
- Charlie is horribly scummy.
- I agree with Magua's and Jahudo's case on him.
- Last Will Mafia II's play conflicts with his town meta in Newbie Mafia 934.
- Without any doubt he active lurks in this game.
- Shows lack of willingness to participate in the game.
- Guilty of hypocrisy.
- Asks useless questions.
- Doesn't explain suspicion.
-

Vote on Shattered Viewpoint was a policy lynch vote, not a vote because he thought he was scum.

- Lacks explanation for his bandwagoning on CSL.
- Doesn't defend himself when points are brought up against him."

Because people say so
Here's the people that say so
A one-game meta
Well, this I agree on a bit
That can be attributed to the active lurking
How so?
So do you
So do most people in this game
Bolded. WAITWAITWAIT weren't you trying to get a policy lynch on Millar? Also, remember that point I noted about you trying to get a SV lynch?
Again, so do most people in this game
I'm pretty sure I brought some points up against you that you didn't defend, also again so do most people in this game.

Next few posts looks like more spaghetti throwing...

I'm really too lazy to read the rest of his posts. They're huge and there's way too many of them. I might add more later, but this alone to me seems like enough to lynch him for.

So, if we really aren't going to get a Richard lynch today, then lets go for this one today and (preferably) him tomorrow when you guys realize that whatever the results tomorrow, richard will not be easily cleared.
The only thing I can see being good about him is keeping him around, getting him to vig people at night that we say and the day that he doesn't we lynch him, that way, if nothing else, we've got the scumkill, which can be proven by the moment he doesn't kill someone we say to, we lynch him, then lynch the person we told him to that he didn't the next day. Although, this could kill off more than too many townies, it gets us up to two scum. And if he's town, then we have a town-directed nk every night. Only problem? I still think he's lying.

[Xite91]

Hey Xite:

Considering the BLARING contradiction? You don't want people to use the same type of method to lynch you? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Does that make me mafia in your eyes?

Honestly, not yet, but it's things like that that make me feel like you might be though.

[Xite91]

I'd really like a reason why there is so much of a wagon on EGL.

[Xite91]

Omitting anything I read and went, okay, fair enough to

2 - Asking about my policy vote on Kmd

1) And how exactly is this a problem to you?

3 - Asking Dia why they're suggesting alts? Wait, do you remember what you just asked a post ago?

1contd) If it's the one about me asking about your policy vote on Kmd4390, then I'd like to know how this is relavent to asking Diacria why they're suggest you're an alt.

6 - Here's where you start throwing spaghetti (I think I defined this before, but if not, it's that you throw a little suspicion on anyone that could be considered even slightly scummy and seeing what sticks, but waiting to vote any of them until one gets a bit more suspicion on them, then saying hey, I had a case on them all along, see?)

2) I never had a scum read on Kmd4390. I didn't like the comment, but that doesn't mean that person is automatically scummy.

7 - You don't get to dictate these things ya kno

(See post 5 of his in ISO)

3) I did not demand that we get out of RVS now, I was just trying to explain to RichardGHP that it's a good idea to get out of RVS as soon as possible. I am not dictacting when we should end RVS.

4) Second argument: I honestly do not see how I was guessing the mod. I was using meta to determind why I thought posting restrictions didn't exist. Had the previous game had posting restriction, this argument would not have been used. Furthermore, I give out evidence that Shattered Viewpoint having a posting restriction is implausible. That is analysis his post, not gaming the mod.

11 - More throwing spaghetti, the

non

request for millar to lynch

5) millar13 was being disrespectful to the mod and to a few others players (I can name off holycon and Reverse Simplicity). Had he continued to do that, had we not known of his claim (Was a mistake on my behalf to push a policy lynch on him even after his claim), and had we not decided on a lynch candidate, I sure as hell would have decided to try to get him replaced or if not possible, policy lynched him. I don't want someone who does not pay respect to the game to be playing the game at all.

6) As for your other argument, as there are multiple scumbags in the game, I am not going to just focus on one person and tunnel that person. You can claim otherwise, but I have and am still giving my argument on why I did not tunnel Diacria.

12 - Case on Dia (who's list I'm going to look more closely at since she was on the NKs)

7) And I would like elaboration on why this is one of your "important points" against me.

13 - Teehee, his response to my telling him I saw his techniques on throw and check was, oh I didn't tunnel Dia, I made a post to EGL too.

8) Which proves that I am not going to just focus on one person throughout most of the game and will discuss other subjects as well.

14 - But claims can also hurt the town. Just sayin.

9) I can see that they can hurt the town, but they have benefits as well. Granted, he should not have claimed at all (I even told him that it wasn't recommended that he claimed at all), but we have some information thanks to millar13's claim. Plus if RichardGHP is lying about his claim (Which I believe he is), the vigilante can always vig millar13 and this problem would be resolved.

Is this what you were talking about? Point out the WIFOM, I dare you.

10) Very well, I will:

Scumtells are done more likely by scum then town but if that was really the case why is it that we are most likely going to lynch a townie day one then scum? In short its because the scum tells add up to accurately gauge someone instead of someone just jumping out day one saying "Hey everyone look at me I'm scum!"

1) He changed his vote there too. In big bolded letters, on you actually. How could you miss it? How is that AtE? All it did for me was make me laugh.

11) First argument: Nice misrep. By until ISO: 22, I was including that post. I knew that he put it out in big bolded letters that he wanted me ded. It was obvious that he voted me and I took account in it.

12) As for your "It's not AtE" argument, we were out of RVS during the time. I'm sorry, but every scummy post outside of RVS I consider scummy, so I still think it's AtE.

2) Bolded. So, you went with Raider because he had a better case on him? So what you're saying is that he was the safer vote?

13) Yes I went to raider8169 because I thought he had the best case at the time. Also, if you seriously think that raider8169 is a safe person, then why didn't I vote for the lurkers? Lurkers are an extremely safe target to be in, especially active lurkers and you will receive the least amount of scrunity for voting them because they are the least likely to defend themself. Note that raider8169 was not attacked mainly for active lurking and he actually put forth effort toward defending himself, that isn't a safe vote.

17 - Or it's easier to mask yourself as scum. Just think about it.

14) I honestly doubt that voting for multiple people at a time makes it easier to mask yourself. You are more likely to gain scrunity from the multiple players that are voting you then from one person you put all your votes on. It also proves that you're more determined to find scums.

20 - You went the easy route with those three. I thought Raider was scummier? Where did that case go anyways? Oh, nevermind I see that his recent play is now townier. That's funny, he seemed to be playing the same to me

15) Shattered Viewpoint is definently not an easy target. I already have meta to prove that he played a lot better in my first game with him, so he had absolutely no excuse for his poor play, especially as a town member.

Wait, not if you think he's scum? Noted

16) By "the game", I mean that he won't benefit the town at all and I really did think he was scum.

22 - Easy case is easy

17) I was suspecting Shattered Viewpoint since early Day 1, it took me a long time to suspect him. I gave him the benefit of a doubt and he failed to improve.

Wait, huh? First, weren't you the one that said hey, everyone switch your vote to shattered if you don't think he'll benefit town (Not if you think he's scum, mind you)

18) A person who supports a lynch on another person who flips town can analyze the bandwagon for scums. I am not going to give scums a free ride just because I was supporting the mislynch bandwagon myself.

Next, bolded are the last 5 on the wagon. Now lets see who matches up to your list...
OHAI MILLAR!
Yup, that's it. Interesing

19) Scums do not always join a mislynch bandwagon, but they can be part of a mislynch bandwagon. Experienced scums like to stay out of a bandwagon to gain town creds for not joining it, so my suspects do not have to be on the mislynch bandwagon.

Where'd ani come from? I guess you just realized that you missed your whole 5 people list thing and decided to add one?

20) No. Before analyzing the bandwagon, I had four major suspects off the top of my head. After looking at it, animorpherv1 joined the list as I really dislike his play overall. His play is still very scummy.

27 - Good call on what? I think this is what we call buddying up good sir.

21) I was simply saying he was bringing up a good point. Now had I continued to agree with his reasons, then you could say I was buddying. But you are blowing his out of proportion.

22) Should I not be able to agree on suspicion? I gave Charlie's ISO a second look and I agreed that he was scummy enough to switch my vote over. Would I seriously do this if I didn't agree with them?

A one-game meta

23) Well it's better then nothing and I was trying to prove my point that I don't like Charlie's play here.

So do you

24) And so does everyone else. However, Charlie's questions rarely benefits the town at all, they are usually useless.

So do most people in this game

25) The difference is that Charlie explained very little, if any legitimate reasons for voting his suspects. The most other people lack explanation for some of there suspects, but Charlie give lacks explanation for almost all of them.

Bolded. WAITWAITWAIT weren't you trying to get a policy lynch on Millar? Also, remember that point I noted about you trying to get a SV lynch?

26) Yes I was trying to get a policy lynch on millar13, but I at least had legitimate reasons. When I realize that the risk outweight the benefits, I stepped out of the plan. And I see your point about Shattered Viewpoint, but it wasn't a policy lynch, I wanted him lynched because I thought he was scum.

Again, so do most people in this game

27) His bandwagoning of CSL sounds the most shameless and had the least amount of reason for voting CSL

1s) Put them together... think about it. If that's not enought then sure I'll explain it; She was giving an answer to your very own question
2) And now you see the start of my why I accused you of throwing spaghetti
3) *facepalm* Bolded.
4) That's what I mean, you're basing your beliefs on whether or not the last game did that. That's how your gaming the mod. Although your other point is valid, he seemed to just be having a bit of fun.
5) Millar was just being millar. Just learn to accept it. That's what you'll have to do with him
6) Point was that you DID tunnel Dia for a bit there. Your EGL defense is invalid because IIRC it was just answering a question, not scumhunting
7) That was more of a reminder of myself to look at that list, which I still haven't done O.O
8) See 6
9) *Rolls eyes* See? Bases covered
10) That's more mafia theory than WIFOM IMHO
11) Not a misrep, you did not specify. And it wasn't obvious if you had to specify.
12) How does that makes sense?
13) *facepalm* (Wonder how many times I'm going to do that tonight) He was safe BECAUSE of all the suspicion on him. You kno, if you're trying to look oblivious, you're just pissing me off. Also, so again, you were following the crowd?
14) *facepalm again* Scum can put their say, 3 votes on 3 peole, then one of them gets lynched, and scum can be like, well that was the person I least suspected out of all of them. It'd be easy to pull off.
15) Your metas have become worthless to me. Also, he is too an easy target, because of how much suspicion was on him. Same with the others.
16) Oh wow, way to not specify. That clears you up SO much. /sarcasm
17) Waitcontradictionsaywhat?
18) So, then you support it when you do it, but no one else?
19) So then isn't your point 18 invalid?
20) Well, okay then, is that because of the rising suspicion on him then?
21) Not when you don't tell me where the good call was when that was clearly a question I asked
22) Not when you do it on so many of the cases
23) Nothing is better than a misrep
24) IYO, but maybe that's his way of scumhunting. He has given some points hasn't he?
25) Kmd and Dia i think did it too. Also, CSL too maybe? I know charlie wasn't the only one
26) But you pretty much gave everyone else a free pass to policy lynch. Then went after them for it? Hmm
27) how so?

Prod received, still here.

I didn't kill millar because I figured he would be killed by someone else, and targeting him in that instance would circumvent the kill.

Convenient

[Xite91]

Yes, but that's why it's convenient. More in a bit, gotta go to store

[Xite91]

Haha yup. Sorry, had to get something to feed myself with (Hotpockets for the win!)

Anyways, it was interesting that sait that he didn't even think to use his ability as a vig-type ability, but then said that he didn't use it on millar because someone else might have tried to nk him, thus keeping him alive. I more or less enjoyed the inconsistency.
Also, protecting him could make him a slightly more confirmed townie unless a real vig were to actually claim to try and kill him.

[Xite91]

First, I'd like to point out that Ythan is adorable. He's like our own little private investigator. Also, I think he's scum. It's just a gut read though, mostly based on how he asks a lot of questions, but goes nowhere with them.

Kmd (Not playing how I've seen him play as town whether I was playing or not/ not really contributing)

What game did I play as scum that was similar to the way I am playing this game?

-----------------

I never said you were playing similar as scum. I've never seen you play as scum before, but I have seen a good few games with you as town, and in none of them did you play like this.

Also,

Mod: If you haven't found a replacement for me yet, hold fire. I might still be able and willing to play.

I am a CPR Doctor. I am like a regular doctor, with the exception that if I target someone who is not being killed, they die. It is for this reason that I didn't protect anyone last night. Not really sure if it's even worth keeping me around, since I'm likely to end up either killing townies or sitting on my butt doing nothing for most of the game. Do with the claim what you will.

I guess I misread this, plus I think a few people asked if thought to, he never answered though. Also, it still seems odd to me because he said that he didn't use his ability on millar because he wanted to kill him, but here he says that he didn't use his ability on anyone because he didn't want to kill anybody.

@Richard - why didn't you just go after richard and claim it the next day? He would have either died, or you would have protected him, thus both of your fears are taken care of in a sense.

Oh, wait

See that? Anything I say in response to the question asked is going to be wrong. I'm not going to be answering any more.

I forgot you decided not to cooperate anymore because, we're testing to see if you're scum? Stop throwing a tantrum. Play the game or replace out plox

[Xite91]

Yup, not seeing how that quote works...

[Xite91]

Maybe not always, but in this case it does.

[Xite91]

@SSBF - You're doing it again, mr scum
@Charlie, why do you find him town exactly?

[Xite91]

I call this out based on what I've seen before: in my first newbie game (yes I was scum) there were 2 people constantly arguing against each other till no end (hence mudslingling). The fact was both were town and not listening to each other...the final outcome wasn't so bad when consensus was reached.

I think the fundamental basis of this thinking is that town members will voice out their opinions as much as they want without fear of being called out for it.

Although, good scum also will.
I know it's hard, but reread through our (or at the very least SSBF's) posts. You'll find that there are plenty of differences between the two, one of the biggest being that SSBF's seem a lot more scummy. At least IMO

[Xite91]

No, that one was following the crowd, you know, seeing that there's suspicion on someone so posting a case on them. When I was asking for a case one him, I was asking the people that started suspecting him in the beginning.
I know there was a case put on him, but I thought it was already discussed that it wasn't a good case, then suddenly everyone's like, I'm feelin the EGL lynch.

[Xite91]

Oh, here I was thinking I had voted SSBF, so I went back to check it to tell the mod that my vote changed and I realized I totally forgot I had promised to keep my vote on Richard. Well, hey at least I didn't change my vote. And since I am true to my word, I'm not going to, so I urge either a vote on Richard or on SSBF plox, kthnxbai

[Xite91]

I am so done with the AtE

[Xite91]

You have no reason to use AtE. You do realize that it does nothing to help your case right? If nothing else it pisses people off and makes them want to lynch you MORE

[Xite91]

At the beginning of the game, any vote on him was labelled as sucky by him.

Any wagon I form wouldn't take off anyway.

Ok, Richardfail.

I created the OMGUS vote as a gambit to see if I could form a wagon on myself, whereupon I would analyse the votes to determine the scum who latched onto an easy vote. ani was the only one that really stuck out in my mind. The gambit as a whole turned out to be something of a missed opportunity. A little more action regarding it would have been nice.

So, lynch me if you want. If you decide to, ani, SSBF and millar are scum (kill them please !!) and Ythan, Xite, Twomz, Rhinox and Amished are town. Keep them alive.

Unvote

If he gets lynched and flips scum, I'm saying that we should next lynch SSBF and Millar(if he's not Nk'd)

Ythan: Ever heard of giving someone the benefit of the doubt? It's fun; you should try it some time.

Mod: Replace me please

.

Otherwise the integrity of this game and myself are about to become compromised. One more smug comment out of Xite or Ythan would do it, I think. I don't want to be in a game where people think like that.

See that? Anything I say in response to the question asked is going to be wrong. I'm not going to be answering any more.

I just can't do anything right, can I?

What's all that look like to you? A handful of AtE? I think it is good sir





While ISOing Richard to make a point, I found these things on the way

Vote: CryMeARiver

Claim or die.

SSBF, you too.

Why'd your first post include you asking for claims? (Can't believe I missed this)

Page 4 is FAR to early for RVS to be over in a LARGE THEME GAME.

Regardless of that:

Unvote, Vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan

because he is scum.

You would know if you were his buddy

He also seems to do this thing where he posts, then realizes that people could take that wrong and posts again saying something to the effect of; oh and don't take that wrong

[Xite91]

unvote, vote: EGL

I think I'm wrong about Richard. I want him to be scum because he's not trying to scum hunt and he's not answering questions, but... Looking at the 2 leading wagons makes me change my mind. On the richard wagon, I see ani and SSBF who I'm leaning "more scummy than town" on, CSL and Xite who I'm leaning "clueless" on, and only Amished who I have a town read on. On the EGL wagon, nacho, Jahudo, and Locke seem town, and charlie and kmd I'm neutral on. And then Richard, voting EGL for self preservation...

I think I would rather see a SSBF or a chrono lynch today, but I don't think that will be possible with what, 36 hours now until deadline? Looks Like EGL it is.

@Ythan: Why aren't you voting anyone with the deadline coming up?

I lol'd a little. Why do you consider me clueless?
I think that if you tried putting your vote on SSBF then maybe more people would follow. Like I said, I made a promise, but that doesn't mean others can't do what they feel is actually right. And you're not the only one that has expressed suspicion on him.

People, if you think that SSBF is scum, why not vote him? you don't have to worry about a no-lynch and IIRC I've seen a few, "well he's a better lynch but I don't think we'll be able to today"'s Put two and two together plox?

[Xite91]

EBWOP oh yeah, jahudo asked me a question

xite and ssbf, how do you personally separate townie frustration from the same as a scum tactic?

Richard definitely looks anti-town by way of ignoring pretty much all questions directed towards him and not explaining his vote. But while the vote may be geared towards self-survival, his ignoring questions is not. So I don't think he's using this as a scum tactic because they would be hurting his survival.

I think you're trying a bit too hard on this one. A lot of players in this game don't make sense/ play the way we think they should play.
Actually though, based on what I've seen of him, this is the absolute worst game I've seen him play in. Also, based on looking at all of his posts, he

actually scumhunts

in other games, why wouldn't he here?

[Xite91]

I meant in his other games he made cases, instead of posted almost useless one-liners and calling it gambitting

[Xite91]

There's one reason I can think of as to why EGL tracked Millar - He's poor town and decided to see if Millar's claim was untrue so that he could pull a LaL-type thing the next day if he visited and clear a "townie" if he didn't

If he was a scum tracker wouldn't he just watch someone that didn't claim? Unless of course he did and the millar thing is a lie because millar is scum, but that's an elaborate hoax that I don't think EGL would have the care/want to based on the activity he's given to the game

I will not be directed on who to "doc".

YOU WILL DO WHAT HE DAMN WELL SAYS /angry white guy
On a more serious note, seriously, these fine people are deciding to let you live, shouldn't you be grateful to them and do what they say?

[Xite91]

I don't owe them anything, and I'm certainly not going to have my night actions dictated by any random townie. I am not the town's slave. I do not work for them. Therefore, they do not have license to boss me around. If that means I have to be lynched, so be it. I will not budge on this.

Are you part of the town?
If you are, this is a highly stupid post and should be burned.
If not, then you should be lynched

Directing a vig's shots is okay in certain circumstances.

Directing a CPR Doc's shot? Never.

Uhm, how does that make sense? Okay, so someone tries to kill the same person that he kills? If it's scum then guess what? That's right! We stopped the scumkill! Or we could have our one shot vig also target him, just to prove Richard's claim, also it will prove our inventor. Just sayin

Also, on an ISO of Nacho, I like the buddying you do of richard. It will be remembered

[Xite91]

His neglect to help the town is useless. that was the point

[Xite91]

I'm still good with my vote. I don't see how a wagon on him prevented a catchup post to identify his suspects when he had about 3-4 days since his previous post.

Hey xite, do you have any Richard games in mind that I could read and see the extent of his scumhunting?

Well a lot of what I looked at were games still going on (because I read the first few pages of his site ISO) But here are a few I found that were completed, sorted by role;

Town

Christmas time mafia <---- Holy hell multiple paragraphs of text? And I see actual explanations for things too.
Mafia in hell, Michigan <---- This one has me more apt to believe he's town in this game, but if you read it, he still tries to help a little bit, Although he pulls a terrible gambit in this one, too.

Mafia
Seemingly Normal Mafia <---- Still some points with multiple points of text, but a lot less of that, also he had to be replaced out. I'll also have you note that in his ISO, I found a point where he votes someone and says Oh My God, You Suck. Familiar?

There like two more (I think), but I lost them in my mass amount of tabs. Besides, you could take the time to do a little research on your own

[Xite91]

What do you mean?

[Xite91]

What do you mean?

[Xite91]

Awww hell. Sorry interwebs fail

[Xite91]

Or scum also tried to nk the same person he did.
See didn't I say this would happen?

Hell, he just needs to die, then SSBF tomorrow.
And I say rich needs to die because he's either scum or detrimental to the town. Call it a policy lynch or whatever, but that's my choice on who to lynch

And I made my case on SSBF

[Xite91]

@Nacho - youre funny you know that? do you even read the thread? Please read it again whether your answer is yes or no, theres something youre missing

[Xite91]

No, actually, about ten or so of my posts back (somewhere in there) I said it, ISO Ythan, or even Twomz. Then you'll see

[Xite91]

Richard who'd you target?

Did

you target?

Before anyone says anything I would like to hear from richard plox.

[Xite91]

Hey Ythan, mind telling me what you did last night? Kthnxbai

Also, Amished I totally agree with that second bit

Vote: SSBF

[Xite91]

@RichardGHP: Would you mind explaining why you targetted millar13?

You're so dumb sometimes. Just sayin

Yes.

Wait, did I just call SSBF dumb? Richard has to be at least double as bad.

51 pages is a lot to skim, any claimed roles still alive? Obviously, richard claimed a killing role (vig?).

CPR doc
There's a lot to read, I know, I sympathize with you, I really do, but I'd like your opinion on things, not what you got from everyone else's opinion

[Xite91]

My scum list is mostly centered on the people who were votin Richard at the end of D2 (as well as Charlie, mustn't forget Charlie): animorpherv1, CSL, Amished, Xite91, Super Smash Bros. Fan (hooray copy and paste). I continue to see no reason why you'd vote to lynch a claimed vig when we're still so early in the game. I'll start with the person who seemed to put the least amount of thought into their Richard vote, and then avoided every question afterwards:

He was my second suspect, first was SSBF, only thing was I made a promise and I'm true to my word

Well, Xite91 seems hellbent on lynching SSBF Today.

If you look at yesterday, you'll see that I wanted him lynched. I even had a huge case on him.

I used my one-shot kill from Twomz on millar. Richard is lying about his action last night.

vote Richard x3

I expected something of the like.

Unvote, Vote Richard

We can get SSBF tomorrow

Definently will take a closer look at the EGL bandwagon later. I believe that we have scum on that bandwagon as well and this time, I will take a look at everyone.

Yes.

Why aren't you going to explain to us why you killed millar13? Given that Ythan already counterclaimed you, you should at least provide us a reason why you kiled millar13. If you are not going to cooperate with us, then you are hiding information away from the town and I see no town motivation for doing this. Combining that with your already very scummy play and you're the best lynch for today.

Vote: RichardGHP x3

Will also support a lynch on Charlie, animorpherv1, and Chronopie (Not sure about MichelSableheart, his first few posts sounds townish, but CSL was just awfully scummy. We'll see about him) if RichardGHP doesn't receive the noose.

I'm not even gonna bother pointing out the scummy in this post.

Whoever deicded to

send me this

really needs to learn pro-townness...

Okay, i'll bite, wadja get?

[Xite91]

One-shot doc.

Another inventor?
Maybe scum-based one, being why you got it maybe?
What's your opinion on it?

[Xite91]

EBWOP
Having checked 2x I think hes at 8/12

[Xite91]

k makes sense

[Xite91]

Unvote

Just realized something.
Yesterday him and Ythan were speaking cryptically all day yesterday.
If you paid attention, you would notice that Ythan did claim to have a one shot kill.
Multiple people did tell Richard to kill Millar.
Ythan did hint that he was going to kill Millar.
This would have confirmed at least richard as town.
Okay that's the recap.
But hey, scum can be pretty crafty.
For instance, they killed twomz last night, proving that he was an inventor.
Therefore proving Ythan's one-shot.
Next, if they block Richard, they get rid of Ythan's one shot, kill a townie, and line up a lynch for the next day.
I'm going to believe Richard's claim for now.
That being said,

Vote:SSBF

[Xite91]

Xite- How does

"Multiple people did tell Richard to kill Millar.
Ythan did hint that he was going to kill Millar.
This would have confirmed at least richard as town."

equal

"This would have confirmed at least richard as town."?

Also, reasoning for the SSBF vote?

First question answer;
He would have killed millar without a CC for the kill
Or Millar would have lived and there would be a CC to the kill, proving his role.
I'm just saying this does look a bit like an elaborate plan to get another townie killed, which is why he's cleared in my book for now, though if anyone's looking for a policy lynch, I'm pretty sure who to suggest.

Read my ISO, I already made a case on him.

[Xite91]

1) Thinking back, if Ythan did hint that he would kill millar, why would Richard-town try to protect millar?

2) "Does look a bit like..." is good enough for you to call someone confirmed town? Isn't there also a decent chance that Richard lied about his role and is fakeclaiming to have killed millar?

If richard is scum, then I speculate that Xite is also scum.

1) Because he was told to? Also, if Millar ended up alive, then we would have confirmed Richard as town.
2) It's a good chance, but I'd like to give it one more night to see, instead of a PR mislynch, besides, the way that night happenings went down, it just looks like the whole thing is a big set up

[Xite91]

Given the two claims on the death of millar13, right now I'm leaning toward Ythan. Granted, it doesn't confirm him as town as Kmd4390 pointed out, but given Ythan's more towny play over RichardGHP's very scummy play, plus that I can see more town motivations for Ythan to kill millar13, I'm inclined to believe that Ythan killed millar13 over RichardGHP. Of course one of them being role blocked can be an acceptable explanation, but I feel that RichardGHP killed millar13 for town creds just so he can survive another day.

Would you like to point out the BLARING contradiction here, or shall I?

[Xite91]

Xite91- "Because he was told to? Also,

if Millar ended up alive, then we would have confirmed Richard as town.

" Yes, but town would have wasted a vig kill (2 if Richard is town), and millar would have ended up lynched (probably) and then Richard would be NK'd for being "confirmed." Also, isoing you turned up a quote from richard where he said he would not be the town slave and would not have his actions dictated by a random townie.

"It's a good chance, but I'd like to give it one more night to see, instead of a PR mislynch, besides, the way that night happenings went down, it just looks like the whole thing is a big set up"

You go from Richard is a liar, lynch him (4th on a counterclaim wagon)! To a Richard is confirmed town. To a let's give Richard one more night to see.

Now, I'm not even sure if I can that if Richard is scum then you are scum. You are scum, regardless.

vote: Xite91

I did believe he was until I realized that twomz was also NK'd
I never said I confirmed Richard as town, but that if other circumstances had happened, he would be confirmed town.
My point was that it all looked too... set up, because millar DID die and because so did Twomz, who turned up inventor, proving Ythan's one-shot, and millar died, which means one of a few things;
Ythan is scum and did not use the one shot, let Millar die and CC'd it, while directed the scum NK on twomz
Ythan is not scum and did use his one shot, Richard was Roleblocked by scum, Ythan killed Millar and scum NK'd twomz to set the whole thing up to get Richard lynched today
Richard did not target millar, but then who did he target? Or maybe he's lying altogether.
It just seems more likely to me ATM that Richard is town BECAUSE twomz was the NK

[Xite91]

I think I understand that argument. Richard-scum wouldn't lie about killing someone he didn't because he would get counter-claimed. And since Twomz was (presumably) killed by scum, there's a good chance that it would come from Richard-scum's faction. The only logical way Richard could be scum is if there are 2 or more killing scum factions. In a large game that's common enough but not guaranteed, so this isn't an open and shut case.

So if Richard is town, then either he was blocked or Ythan was. I could see a fair chance of the latter happening, but why would scum block Richard-town? Whether he proves he can kill or not wouldn't prove he is town.

If they blocked richard-town, they waste a Ythan one-shot kill (assuming he's town)
And that's a slightly more character-based argument, I was actually going more on the strategy side of it, but yeah, we're on the same page

I believe the circumstances that you said would make Richard confirmed town (multiple people telling Richard to kill millar and Ythan hinting at killing millar) actually happened before this post. Therefore you DID confirm Richard as town.

Yeah.... what?
I said that if certain circumstances actually happened he would be confirmed as town, but scum couldn't let that happen, so we get the circumstances we get now. It's just a possibility, and I'm more apt to believe richard-town now.

@Xite91:

Of course one of them being role blocked can be an acceptable explanation, but I feel that RichardGHP killed millar13 for town creds just so he can survive another day.

I think you're referring to this. Is this correct? If that's the case, then what I meant to say was that one of Ythan/RichardGHP being role blocked could be an acceptable explaination, but if RichardGHP did perform the kill, I feel that he did it for town creds so he can live to see another day.

First, you pretty much repeated the same thing, second, I'm gonna do some gaming of the mod right quick;
Why would he give scum 2 killing roles? Especially one that can protect them, too??? Isn't that just a eensy bit unbalanced, dontcha think?

[Xite91]

Xite91!

I've read SSBF in ISO as you asked. I conclude he is townish and on a scale of 1 - 10 with total towness being 10 and total not towness being 1, he falls on a 7. That's a pass! So it seems that my opinion is still the same that both you and SSBF are town just saying stuff about each other.

On a more important note. Did anyone notice how seemingly pro-town Jahudo looks? Like very seemingly town, until the point he posted things in #1348? Isn't THAT the only post that does not make him pro-town, but rather anti-town? Can we lynch him for that single post?

First, okay, works for me.
What do you think about Richard?
How about Kmd or Amished? Or everyone else for that matter?
Who's scum?

Based on one post? That you didn't even show where the anti-townness is?
Hmmm...

[Xite91]

I agree with most of what you say Michel, just want to clarify something, though.

That Xite supported that suggestion, and that Ythan didn't protest also caused some raised eyebrows from me.

I supported it because I figured that Richard would probably be able to take another shot the next night if he actually did protect millar, because even if they killed him that night, his kill probably would go through as well, don't ask me why I didn't figure the same for inventions, I really don't know. Either way, it would have confirmed Twomz as an inventor (and probably town) and Richard as a CPR doc (and probably town). That's two almost-confirmed townies.

[Xite91]

@Xite91: Honestly, I begin to doubt Richard's claim now. I get the feeling that he is pulling some strings.
Kmd...no change, simply because his posting style appears to be minimalistic. I'll look at this again.
Amished..seems okay so far, but posted less that normal. Heck, a lot of people are posting less than normal.
Who's scum? Based on one single post, Jahudo suddenly stands out. Please do read his post again and see if you can find anything in it.

How would he be pulling strings? Give me a few scenarios?

Well thanks for your opinion on them but those were just examples. You are working much harder with this game so I won't get all mad at you or anything, but other than Jahudo, who's scum?

I think I understand that argument. Richard-scum wouldn't lie about killing someone he didn't because he would get counter-claimed. And since Twomz was (presumably) killed by scum, there's a good chance that it would come from Richard-scum's faction. The only logical way Richard could be scum is if there are 2 or more killing scum factions. In a large game that's common enough but not guaranteed, so this isn't an open and shut case.

So if Richard is town, then either he was blocked or Ythan was. I could see a fair chance of the latter happening, but why would scum block Richard-town? Whether he proves he can kill or not wouldn't prove he is town.

Okay charlie, what is scummy in this post, because I can't find it.

[Xite91]

I'm not sure that ani has been reading the whole thread. He is fortunate that I have role-based information in another case so that he can wait until tomorrow.

I actually understand the Ani logic, there are other things making people think that you are probably town, so you shouldn't be questioning why you and Richard aren't the only people under scrunity, besides this is a large game with quite a few scum, so we can be looking at multiple people. The fact that you're not happy with people tunneling you and Richard is scummy.

FoS Ythan

I'm still much happier than an SSBF wagon.

1) I'm not sure if you are lieing to cover for Ythan or what. A roleblocked person doesn't know they are roleblocked when they use their power nor after they use it. Also, you just believe Ythan that it is gone. You don't even consider the fact that he may be lieing about having the power still?

2) MSH- I would think that with this type of game (where if you die you can pass on your votes), that the scum team would be relatively small. For balance, I think there may be two groups (alternating kills, killed the same person N1/N2, etc.). If there were a large scum team of 6 players, they would always stay at 6 strong voting wise. If they are good enough or the town is bad enough, they can go to majority vote and win in N3. For a 23 player large game, that would be too short and since this is a second run for this type (typically different from the first, but more bugs worked out), I would think that would be worked out.

3) Xite- Your reaction to my accusations against you have been pretty null, I must say. But my gut is still saying you are scum. I really don't like the way you tried to direct a claimed PR to basically null out another's action and I don't like the fact that you jumped on the claimed PR for claiming to have targetted the person who died (just like what would happen if he targetted the person) when someone else who was also supposed to target the player claimed to have done so, claimed to have targetted the player. Initially, you do not even think the plan of getting some confirmed players all the way through. You basically gave a potential mafia RB a german shepard in which to herd the town down the path of destruction. Then when you hear the dog barking, you just run down the designated path it left for you without question.

1) He probably hasn't stopped to consider all of the possibilities.
2) You're missing someting there, if I were scum, I wouldn't pass my votes to a scumbuddy because it would make them obvscum, on the other hand, I would pass it to a townie, because then there's more of a chance to get a mislynch. Just sayin.
3) Whaaaaaat? My reactions are null, but that doesn't clear me to you, even though I explained what my thoughts were on that, you're still trying to make it seem like something else, and then some off-the-wall metaphor that seems to me to mean almost nothing but makes me look more scummy.

FoS Batt

Again, though, I like an SSBF lynch better

[Xite91]

Xite I'm in more than one game with you. I know you're terrible in at least one of them but I'm not sure if this is one. After your FoS without an actual "I find you suspicious because" I'm going to check. It's as if you're leaping at an opportunity to disagree with something I say and somehow conflate that with proper suspicion. Most likely an attempt to discredit my beneficial position as prob-town with good information.

I'd like to know that information, plox

Also

I'm not sure that ani has been reading the whole thread. He is fortunate that I have role-based information in another case so that he can wait until tomorrow.

I actually understand the Ani logic, there are other things making people think that you are probably town, so you shouldn't be questioning why you and Richard aren't the only people under scrunity, besides this is a large game with quite a few scum, so we can be looking at multiple people.

The fact that you're not happy with people tunneling you and Richard is scummy.

FoS Ythan

There is my reason I think you're scummy and FoS'd you.
Plus, I like how that first line you add is your way of discrediting me in case I have an actual point

Richard is scum because I think that if there was a scum roleblocker, they would've been on Twomz Night 1. Richard's also been far scummier than Ythan, so there are more points against him.

Vote: RichardGHP

Xite is scum because she was CONVINCED that Richard was the right lynch yesterday, but now today, even though it's become more likely that Richard is scum, she doesn't want to lynch him.

Ani, you're still misunderstanding... read what CPR Docs are.

Read my reasoning for wanting to hold off on a Richard lynch.
Or better yet here it is again, THEY KILLED TWOMZ, making us sure that he was a town inventor. This set us up with 2 possible mislynches, that is, if both richard and Ythan are town.
If not, then Richard is scum because he lied
Or Ythan is scum because he lied
Or a bunch of other reasons, but honestly I'm tired of the WIFOM and I'm going to pursue SSBF first, then see what happens tonight.

In the list above, the first set of names took richard to L-1 very quickly. The names in braces were either FoS's, intents to votes, or believing ythan more than richard. As far as I can tell, only me, battousai, and KMD are anti a richard lynch at the moment.

At the moment, so am I, but like I said, I'm going to see what happens tonight

xite-
1) Thanks for defending Amished. I really wanted you to respond to what I said and not him...

2) Town can give their vote to scum, plus the whole WIFOM of giving a vote to your scum buddy would make scum giving scum votes a bit more plausible. Plus the whole point was a worst-case-scenerio.

3) Why would null clear you? It doesn't make you more or less so I go to my fallback belief. Let me make my statements crystal. You wanted/actively supported Ythan and Richard targetting the same person. This plan, when vocalized, would lead a mafia RBer into wanting to block one of the two in order to get an extra kill on a townie plus 1 or 2 mislynches (assuming neither Ythan nor Richard are scum). Then when both Ythan and Richard claim to have targetted millar, you follow the RBer's plan and vote Richard without question.

1) But I did answer you, in fact, you're even responding to it in that very post.
2) I was just showing you where your idea was a bit flawed.
3) It should at least make you consider that I'm not scum. I didn't think about a mafia RBer when I thought that plan through. If you didn't realize, I changed my vote when I had that epiphany.

[Xite91]

I'm not sure that ani has been reading the whole thread. He is fortunate that I have role-based information in another case so that he can wait until tomorrow.

I actually understand the Ani logic, there are other things making people think that you are probably town, so you shouldn't be questioning why you and Richard aren't the only people under scrunity, besides this is a large game with quite a few scum, so we can be looking at multiple people.

The fact that you're not happy with people

not

tunneling you and Richard is scummy.

FoS Ythan

Shit, fixed

[Xite91]

Why am I seeing wagons on anyone other than me or Richard right now.

There you go. And now to attack your actual meaning. I have expressed no opinion on any player tunneling myself or Richard. Disregarding a clear conflict of information is different from that. If a cop claims a guilty result and you go looking for a wagon outside of those two players you're doing it wrong. This is a

less clear

example of the same principle.

First quote = why I saw you as scummy, you seem to be encouraging tunneling on you two, thus making it harder for us to catch scum tomorrow.
Bolded. Exactly. It's NOT clear, that's why I'm waiting another night.
Also, answer my question,

I'm not sure that ani has been reading the whole thread. He is fortunate that I have role-based information in another case so that he can wait until tomorrow.

I'd like to know that information, plox

[Xite91]

@Xite: Please realize that Twomz was already effectively confirmed as inventor. Ythan had made comments on Twomz ability that he could only make if he had actually received something, or if the two were scum together. Ythan had announced that he was going to use the one shot vig he had received the following night. If Twomz wasn't inventor, he needed to be scum with Ythan, and that scumgroup needed to have an extra kill available that they were willing to spent on one of the most scummy players around. Extremely unlikely.

Also, you already know the information Ythan has. He is talking about his one shot vig of millar.

First point - nothing is confirmed to me until the mod posts it, there's extremely likely to be, almost confirmed, and so on.
But if twomz wasn't dead, how would we know that they weren't a scumteam together?

Second point - I really wish you would have let him answer.

[Xite91]

I know this isn't directed at me, but I just have to answer it.

1) animorpherv1's attack on Ythan is just terrible. I don't see how Ythan is scummy and animorpherv1 has failed to convince me otherwise. I particularly don't like these from his attack on Ythan:

2) This looks like strawmanning here. He did not say why I was being voted for, he was just saying that why there was bandwagons beside him and RichardGHP.

3) If RichardGHP didn't provide an explanation. This results in hiding information away from town, therefore, scums do not have to worry about sliping up by not expaining himself. Also, he doesn't even explain his reason for why he killed millar13. Giving a simple explanation like the example you gave him would be enough for me to not vote him. He outright refused to do so and that's why my vote on him.

4) I can be fine with a lynch, but that does not mean you have to vote for the person. I thought EGL was scummy, but RichardGHP, Charlie, Chronopie, animorpherv1, and CSL (Now MichelSableheart) were considerably scummier then EGL. My top suspect as of that time was RichardGHP, I will not be changing my vote to my lesser suspects unless it's meant to prevent a No Lynch. I am also able to accuse people of blatantly bandwagoning EGL for not providing any reasons to do so. Even with my raider8169 vote Day 1, I at least took the time to add a reason in for voting, I will not just simply say "Oh this guy is suspicious, I'll switch my vote on him!".

5) Beacause under those groups, you'll find the most amount of scums in it. Scums tend to vote late on a lynch wagon and they get caught if they don't explain why they are voting for that person. I made sure to personally exploit the last five people because they are the most likely scums in the game.

6) I was not a blatant wagoner on raider8169. I can assure you that there were worse vote on him.
- And why exactly should I gain the majority of the blame for Shatterd Viewpoint's lynch? I clearly thought he was scum and I thought I pushed a decent case on him. As you said, there were blatant bandwagoners on Shattered Viewpoint, I do not see how my vote on Shattered Viewpont was scummier then some of the later votes.
- I already had a solid scum read on RichardGHP. I finally realized that proving RichardGHP would be next to impossible unless a lynch/NK were to occur on him. Plus with his scummy behavior, I switched my vote on him. And I intend to do so until either (A: He is lynched. Or (B: Someone else comes up as scummier.

7) "The" players? I believe there was others wanting a lynch on millar13 as well (Chronopie gave millar13 a HoS on millar13, indicating that he thinks he's a good lynch, but thought there was a better lynch candidate). Furthermore, I also took back my policy lynch statement on millar13 early Day 2, realizing that it was a stupid idea and that I forgot the possibility of a vigilante existing.

1) Read my attack on him, it will make a bit more sense, also I think that's what Ani was trying to say, but he'll have to confirm/deny that on his own.
2) How many other wagons were there? In fact, how many other people were being voted for?
3) Why don't you go back and read the thread? Then you'll have reason enough. I'm pretty sure you're just trying to "trap" him into saying something you can twist around to look scummy. I wouldn't answer you either.
4) But, you said later that the lynch seemed scummy, didn't you?
5) You're missing one vital flaw: You're wrong
Scum can be anywhere on a wagon, hell they can even be the ones that started it.
6) I'm pretty sure his point was that you were on all of the wagons, not your reasoning for it, because scum can go, "yeah and this too!" as well as town do, and oftentimes, they're even the ones more likely to do it
7) Who else was pushing for an actual lynch? Sometime's I'll FoS etc to hint at a vig who they should target.

[Xite91]

I'd like to know that information, plox

I had a one shot kill.

I used it on a player.

A claimed CPR doctor claimed to have targeted that same player.

The player died.

We've been talking about it all day.

Just had to make sure, since you never out and said it.

If Ythan's one shot vig ability was confirmed, how would we know they weren't in a scumteam together? Seriously, the chance of them faking the inventor ability without at least being able to provide the one shot vig is so low that the confirmation of the one shot vig would not add any new information. This makes your reasoning in #1365 dubious.

Have you read post #1377 by Ythan? He already implicitly answered the question. I was just saving you the trouble of getting more "go read the thread please" answers.

First point - If they were scum together they'd have a "vig" ability. Also, they could claim RB'd and so on and so forth. Without twomz being completely confirmed (AKA Dieing) I was not completely convinced, yes it was a pretty good chance, but not exactly 100%
Second point - Read my response to Ythan

[Xite91]

Hang on, have I said that I am very doubtful of RichardGHP's towness and am more inclined to believe Ythan over him? No? Ugh. I hope this does not put a dent in my credibility. I guess I should have mentioned it earlier so I can reference it at a later date comfortably.

Really I believe that Ythan was roleblocked and Richard allowed to make the kill. This fits with everything and makes them both town. But nothing is certain and I really need to park my vote snugly to someone else I get called out for it.

VOTE: RichardGHP

Anyway I'm just going to make a general comment that may or may not be helpful. It also may or may not be suspicious.
@Everyone: you can update your last will at anytime! Don't pass up this valuable opportunity to make a difference.

You had credibility?

How does that make them both town? While this could be true, Ythan could also be scum in some scenarios, and richard could in others. Why not vote who you think is scum?

Whoa... didn't you just say you think he was town?

I supported it because I figured that Richard would probably be able to take another shot the next night if he actually did protect millar, because even if they killed him that night, his kill probably would go through as well, don't ask me why I didn't figure the same for inventions, I really don't know. Either way, it would have confirmed Twomz as an inventor (and probably town) and Richard as a CPR doc (and probably town). That's two almost-confirmed townies.

First point - If they were scum together they'd have a "vig" ability. Also, they could claim RB'd and so on and so forth. Without twomz being completely confirmed (AKA Dieing) I was not completely convinced, yes it was a pretty good chance, but not exactly 100%

What is the use of this part of your post? It has no bearing on my arguments whatsoever, because the confirmation of Twomz as inventor you were talking about in #1365 and which I was criticizing assumes that Twomz wouldn't die.

But he did, and that confirmed him as town instead of Twomz and Ythan being a scumteam.

Basically Xite, your argument for directing Richard towards millar was that it would confirm Twomz as inventor. My counterargument, that Twomz was already as confirmed as inventor as he could without dying, remains undisputed.

Nope, it's pretty disputed. At least by me

[Xite91]

Yeah I did and now I'm changing it. Besides, he is alive Today, claimed to have protected millar13 and such.

Please tell me this was directed at my questions to you.
Does this mean that you changed your idea on him within minutes?

[Xite91]

Xite! Yes it was directed at your questions.
No I did not change my mind within minutes. When Day 2 started, I reset my suspicion on Richard (back to neutral). After people say stuff, I see the logic behind it and they may be correct: Richard was lying all these while. As the day progresses, this didn't change much but I didn't voice it out sooner. In retrospect I guess I should have, but this is turning out to be quite okay. Lynchlynchlynch!

Hang on, have I said that I am very doubtful of RichardGHP's towness and am more inclined to believe Ythan over him? No? Ugh. I hope this does not put a dent in my credibility. I guess I should have mentioned it earlier so I can reference it at a later date comfortably.

Really I believe that Ythan was roleblocked and Richard allowed to make the kill. This fits with everything and makes them both town. But nothing is certain and I really need to park my vote snugly to someone else I get called out for it.

VOTE: RichardGHP

Anyway I'm just going to make a general comment that may or may not be helpful. It also may or may not be suspicious.
@Everyone: you can update your last will at anytime! Don't pass up this valuable opportunity to make a difference.

If you think he's town then why do you want to lynch him?
If you don't think he's town then why did you say so?
You're confusing the hell outta me.

[Xite91]

Xite, you're my hero.

[Xite91]

1) *Facepalm* My case on Ythan.
2) Four in a large game? That's nothing. Also how many votes did each of those people have?
4) Fair enough
5) So you're saying you did not just focus us on those people
6) Twomz wagon = really minor
EGL wagon = you were fine with (AKA borderline fence-sitting)
7) Oh you mean those people that no one really cared to listen to? Yeah, they would push a wagon well.

[Xite91]

Xite, you clear Richard on the basis that:
A) Millar lived and Ythan claimed the kill
OR
B) Millar died and nobody claimed the kill except Richard.

Reread me in ISO
First thing: I said that there was no way to definitely clear or not richard.
Second: I gave many more than one scenario as to the whole Ythan/Richard situation.
Third: If I had to choose scum out of the two of them (Richard/Ythan) I would choose Ythan ATM based on one of those scenarios
Fourth: Two words: Role-blockers

I think you were missing a few parts of this thread. Just maybe.

[Xite91]

Xite, no. I'm not letting you off because you say I didn't just sit here and read every little bit of the game I missed. You pushed for richards lynch harder than possibly anyone here and now you are calling him town. The claimed actions don't fully add up and nothing in these actions can confirm the alignment of either player, yet you change your mind and fail at telling us why.

Give me your reasoning for this flip in your next post.

Unvote

Just realized something.
Yesterday him and Ythan were speaking cryptically all day yesterday.
If you paid attention, you would notice that Ythan did claim to have a one shot kill.
Multiple people did tell Richard to kill Millar.
Ythan did hint that he was going to kill Millar.
This would have confirmed at least richard as town.
Okay that's the recap.
But hey, scum can be pretty crafty.
For instance, they killed twomz last night, proving that he was an inventor.
Therefore proving Ythan's one-shot.
Next, if they block Richard, they get rid of Ythan's one shot, kill a townie, and line up a lynch for the next day.
I'm going to believe Richard's claim for now.
That being said,

Vote:SSBF

Xite- How does

"Multiple people did tell Richard to kill Millar.
Ythan did hint that he was going to kill Millar.
This would have confirmed at least richard as town."

equal

"This would have confirmed at least richard as town."?

Also, reasoning for the SSBF vote?

First question answer;
He would have killed millar without a CC for the kill
Or Millar would have lived and there would be a CC to the kill, proving his role.
I'm just saying this does look a bit like an elaborate plan to get another townie killed, which is why he's cleared in my book for now, though if anyone's looking for a policy lynch, I'm pretty sure who to suggest.

Read my ISO, I already made a case on him.

1) Thinking back, if Ythan did hint that he would kill millar, why would Richard-town try to protect millar?

2) "Does look a bit like..." is good enough for you to call someone confirmed town? Isn't there also a decent chance that Richard lied about his role and is fakeclaiming to have killed millar?

If richard is scum, then I speculate that Xite is also scum.

1) Because he was told to? Also, if Millar ended up alive, then we would have confirmed Richard as town.
2) It's a good chance, but I'd like to give it one more night to see, instead of a PR mislynch, besides, the way that night happenings went down, it just looks like the whole thing is a big set up

Xite91- "Because he was told to? Also,

if Millar ended up alive, then we would have confirmed Richard as town.

" Yes, but town would have wasted a vig kill (2 if Richard is town), and millar would have ended up lynched (probably) and then Richard would be NK'd for being "confirmed." Also, isoing you turned up a quote from richard where he said he would not be the town slave and would not have his actions dictated by a random townie.

"It's a good chance, but I'd like to give it one more night to see, instead of a PR mislynch, besides, the way that night happenings went down, it just looks like the whole thing is a big set up"

You go from Richard is a liar, lynch him (4th on a counterclaim wagon)! To a Richard is confirmed town. To a let's give Richard one more night to see.

Now, I'm not even sure if I can that if Richard is scum then you are scum. You are scum, regardless.

vote: Xite91

I did believe he was until I realized that twomz was also NK'd
I never said I confirmed Richard as town, but that if other circumstances had happened, he would be confirmed town.
My point was that it all looked too... set up, because millar DID die and because so did Twomz, who turned up inventor, proving Ythan's one-shot, and millar died, which means one of a few things;
Ythan is scum and did not use the one shot, let Millar die and CC'd it, while directed the scum NK on twomz
Ythan is not scum and did use his one shot, Richard was Roleblocked by scum, Ythan killed Millar and scum NK'd twomz to set the whole thing up to get Richard lynched today
Richard did not target millar, but then who did he target? Or maybe he's lying altogether.
It just seems more likely to me ATM that Richard is town BECAUSE twomz was the NK

I think I understand that argument. Richard-scum wouldn't lie about killing someone he didn't because he would get counter-claimed. And since Twomz was (presumably) killed by scum, there's a good chance that it would come from Richard-scum's faction. The only logical way Richard could be scum is if there are 2 or more killing scum factions. In a large game that's common enough but not guaranteed, so this isn't an open and shut case.

So if Richard is town, then either he was blocked or Ythan was. I could see a fair chance of the latter happening, but why would scum block Richard-town? Whether he proves he can kill or not wouldn't prove he is town.

If they blocked richard-town, they waste a Ythan one-shot kill (assuming he's town)
And that's a slightly more character-based argument, I was actually going more on the strategy side of it, but yeah, we're on the same page

I believe the circumstances that you said would make Richard confirmed town (multiple people telling Richard to kill millar and Ythan hinting at killing millar) actually happened before this post. Therefore you DID confirm Richard as town.

Yeah.... what?
I said that if certain circumstances actually happened he would be confirmed as town, but scum couldn't let that happen, so we get the circumstances we get now. It's just a possibility, and I'm more apt to believe richard-town now.

@Xite91:

Of course one of them being role blocked can be an acceptable explanation, but I feel that RichardGHP killed millar13 for town creds just so he can survive another day.

I think you're referring to this. Is this correct? If that's the case, then what I meant to say was that one of Ythan/RichardGHP being role blocked could be an acceptable explaination, but if RichardGHP did perform the kill, I feel that he did it for town creds so he can live to see another day.

First, you pretty much repeated the same thing, second, I'm gonna do some gaming of the mod right quick;
Why would he give scum 2 killing roles? Especially one that can protect them, too??? Isn't that just a eensy bit unbalanced, dontcha think?

So what was that about you reading the game?

[Xite91]

I said I am not sure he's not town. I am waiting to see what happens tonight before I jump to any conclusions.
Also, SSBF has my attention more right now

[Xite91]

@KMD: WTF?

The only thing that worries me about today is that I agree with both of the wagons; though with KMD's flip I feel less sure about SSBF.

All it does for me is make my gut scream "SCUM" with the way he's been playing. But that's just me

[Xite91]

@SSBF
5) Really? Worst. Argument. Ever.
You do realize of course, that no matter what wagon, there will be scum, and they are possible to be ANYWHERE on said wagon, and not more likely to be in any particular spot. And sometimes, they stay OFF of a town wagon just to gain town cred, and then guess what they do? They say there was definitely scum on said wagon.
6) Fence-sitting is just as scummy most of the time, though

[Xite91]

@Kmd - My read on you is almost purely from gut, but the semi-active lurking was really helping that read a lot.

[Xite91]

@Bat - Okay, lets lynch SSBF.

But seriously, there's still info that could be gotten, especially right before deadline, but eh.

[Xite91]

@Bat - Okay, lets lynch SSBF.

But seriously, there's still info that could be gotten, especially right before deadline, but eh.

Dragged out, hardly used, and probably could be gotten tomorrow, but ya there is still some information but there is such a thing as TOO MUCH DATA. I don't think that is a problem here, but squeezing out the day to get that last bit just hurts the game as a whole, IMO.


Amished- The person who I found scummy and voted for before trying to end the day- xite.

I can understand that first part, except that there's still a good amount of discussion going on, if there wasn't I wouldn't mind just trying to end the day... with an SSBF lynch.

[Xite91]

Xite, examples of active lurking please.

Really?
You're posting only when there are things that pertain to you, or in this most recent case, to defend someone, other than that, you seem to not really play. Is that not the definition of active lurking?
Also, if SSBF flips scum, you're scum.

[Xite91]

Amished, what? The case on richard comes from his claim and not his awful play? The claim is what changed my mind on richard.

Xite, I'm not gonna respond to every little bit of the thread. I'm not mastin. Also, if I was scum with smash bras, why wouldn't I just push the richard lynch with some bogus "more information" kind of reason?

First, I don't think you have to respond to EVERYTHING, but why not comment on more than just the really big things going on? How about some points for/against people other than the two leading wagons?
Also, it was the way he was townie to you, but when he was put under a good amount of votes and suspicion, you suddenly changed your thoughts on him.

[Xite91]

Also, if SSBF flips scum, you're scum.

Don't like comments like these. What makes you sure beyond reasonable doubt that one person can be mafia based entirely on someone else's roleflip?

It's based on their actions toward said person.
Besides I gave the reason in 1518, didn't I?
Why are you selectively reading?
Also, what makes you bring it up just now?

@Mod: Can we have an extension due to holy needing to be replaced yet?

No. No extension.

This day has been dragged out long enough. There has been a kill claimed, and a kill counterclaimed.

You either believe the claimer, or the counterclaimer, or you have a good reason for why both are town. All of these outside votes (SSBF voters, I'm looking at you) should NOT exist because I know I sure as hell haven't heard a good reason for both Richard and Ythan town yet.

Just hammer already :/

What's wrong with us not tunneling on two people?
Also, we gave our reasons to wait on a lynch on either of them, and there's plenty of things that could have gone wrong, which is why I'm not putting my vote back on richard just yet. I want to see what happens tonight, hey it could save two townies, ya never know.

Also, you may not know it, but SSBF is the lynch for today

[Xite91]

I'm prepared to hammer Richard, but I want to see the VC first. Michel gave me a good reason that chrono isn't scum. I haven't really heard a good argument for SSBF not being scum. I don't think Ythan is scum, and I'm not sure about Richard, but I'm at the point where if his lynch will get that question mark out of the game so the town can focus on finding scum, then its a good lynch.

Huh? Why do you have to see a vote count first?

Xite, that makes no sense. You are saying I am only commenting on big things. Yeah, anything that is a big deal, I'll post about. Anything else doesn't matter as much.

And that doesn't answer my question. Let's put me in the shoes of smash bras buddy. I've been calling him town all game. I called richard scummy til he claimed. Now that ythan comes out with what some consider evidence against richard, smash bras gets votes. Why would I not jump on richard?

How does this make any sense at all? Particularly that last part. You said SSBF was town all game, yes, but as soon as he starts getting a good amount of votes, you say he's scummy based on "reactions" he's given. But to me he's been playing about the same. Please, where are these reactions? And please reorganize your thoughts of that last post so that I can understand them. kthnx

[Xite91]

Rhinox, mostly his tone, especially after votes started piling on. I kind of caught a few of those "tells that are significant to me, but no one else will buy". I can share if you'd like, but I doubt you'll agree with them.

Also, he's not Richard.

Well, it's not exactly "reactions" but I figured that's what you meant. What were these "tells"

Oh, and Xite, why didn't you tell me the big news? [/offtopic]

Which big news? there's a lot of that going on with me. Also, who told you?[/still offtopic]

[Xite91]

Xite, see my response to plum asking me the exact same question.

And THE big news. Can't say who told though. That's top secret. [/more offtopic than you]

Didnt you just quote a bunch of his posts?

And WHICH? About my mom or me. And i need to know who, because I need to know how far it spread

[Xite91]

Holy, you should vote SSBF and we'll lynch scum, how's that sound?

I used quotes, yeah. Might be a good idea to read what I wrote under them too.

And the news is about you and I don't think it has spread very far.

Oh, you mean that post with the snipets of null tells as why he's scum? Yeah, that's a good case. I do want SSBF lynched, but when he is and flips scum, you're next sir.

Oh, you mean the news where I'm boycotting peeing, sleeping, and throwing up for the next 7 months or so? Iunno, you never asked?

[Xite91]

@euso:

I once replaced into a 100 page game on another site. I never read any of it.

Please, no one ever do this or I might have to punch you.

@euso, did you read any of the cases on any of the players?

@Everyone, SSBF is the right lynch. WTH

[Xite91]

@euso:

I once replaced into a 100 page game on another site. I never read any of it.

Please, no one ever do this or I might have to punch you.

Well, it was either I replace in, or the slot gets modkilled. I swear, this mod went to everyone else first, and they said no.

I meant the not reading. I don't expect it all at once, but please, if you're going to play, read the game. I'd almost prefer the slot get modkilled over the player not reading

[Xite91]

lol morning

Vote SSBF

More inclined to believe Ythan's town atm

[Xite91]

Vote: Xite91

I don't like how hard she attacked Richard D2, only to flip and call him "confirmed town" on D3 based on faulty reasoning. I think she was just scum trying to get town cred by staying off the lynch of a PR. Also, I hate how she's been using a case on SSBF she's made 20 pages ago to continue to push through a lynch.

First, I said I'm "more inclined to believe ythan's town atm" not that he's confirmed town. But considering the way richard flipped, I at least know he's not lying, he was the one that nk'd millar. I'm going to leave him be for now and if he becomes scummier in my eyes I'll go after him, but my case around him fell mostly apart when richard flipped VT

Second, I gave my reasons for richard like 87986876587687568 times, so I'm not going to again. Read the thread

Third, yes it's partly based on the case 20 pages back, but it's also based on the points myself and others have been making on him ever since. Honestly, I can't be bothered to make a case every page, and with the way I post, I'm sure the rest of the players here would also like me to refrain from doing so.

Good morning.

----------

Xite, why is ythan town?

Mornin.
I said inclined to believe, not is. Gave my reasons above.

Erm ok. From memory, I think Kmd is town at the very least. Mafia is probably Nacho. Of this I'm willing to bet 1 lunch.
Not quite the answer but let me think about it ok?

Nach is town. Trust me on this one

1) -How SSBF said to look for scum on the EGL wagon even though he had been on that wagon too. I don't think its hypocritical because there probably were scum on the wagon but its not his job to talk about his own actions if he's not under attack.

2) -How he went about analyzing the Shattered Viewpoint wagon. He initially leaves out some of the bandwagoners but later explains why he did that for KMD, for instance, and I don't see what's wrong with not explaining his town reads thoroughly. He picked some scum reads from the wagon, explained them, and that seems enough.

3) -How SSBF argued for a beloved princess lynch. Its a bad strategy and anyone should know that. Scum could easily take a cautious approach so as not to attract attention and get into debates.

The others I'll let others explain, or I agree that they're not scumtells. (also I can't answer the one about meta because I don't know)

1) He was never on the EGL wagon. He said he could get behind it, but never voted (fence-sitting) then he said that he thinks there's scum on the wagon.
2) It was that he said to look at the last 5 on the wagon, but then said, "Oh, these guys I think are town, so it's these two that are scum" Also that one was more to point out to him that scum can be ANYWHERE on a wagon, and his insistence that scum must be on the last 5 is silly.
3) The way he did it, he waited to vote. Instead he just pushed and pushed then dropped it when he didn't get any support. I'm willing to venture a guess that if he were to get support for it, he would vote (remember what I said about throwing spaghetti?)

[Xite91]

Xite, no. The fact that ythan killed millar does NOT make him town. The kill was the result of an invention given to him by twomz. He could have used it regardless of alignment. The millar kill says absolutely NOTHING about ythan's alignment.

I'm not saying that him having killed millar makes him town, I'm saying that my case was on the assumption that Ythan was lying to gt richard lynched. As I said, he looks more town to me ATM. This could change later, but I'm less inclined to believe he's scum right now.

ITT I'm not an Idiot. I't's Day Four, kmd.

You're kind of proving that you are ani. He was trying to point out that it was a joke by furthering the joke. If you're going to vote batt, then vote him based on the scummy things he did, not the obv jokeclaim

[Xite91]

Ythan will from now on be known as Tybalt.

I almost want to sig something from animorph in this game, but I'm not sure what.

vote xite x2

And why the vote, good sir?

Hey xite, can you re-summarize your SSBF case points? Or do you have a post for that already?

1) On the subject of his EGL suspicion, it seems normal he wouldn't vote since he had been focused on finding scum from his Shattered Viewpoint wagon list.

2) And he did not insist scum were in the last 5, he merely suggested it. Where do you see it the other way?

3) I don't recall him pushing that much. I can find one post and then another where he acknowledges a vig can take care of millar being a better plan. It seems that was what caused him to back down. Anyway I still don't see how scum would take this unnecessary risk of arguing for a anti-town strategy.

1) Again, it was the way he did it, I'll describe this to you more when I go back and do a (almost) full ISO (I'm going to quote my last ISO on him first, though)

2) Insist might be a strong word, but he "suggested" it more than a couple times, and argued it a good bit.

3) I remember having a good long "talk" with him about lynching millar at that point, but eh, I could just be thinking it was longer than it was.

Anyways, I'll make a big case on him later, but I have like 3 other cases to do in other games first, so it could be as late as sunday night.

Xite91, you said Nacho is town. How sure are you of this?

Just a little meta trick
I'm not %150 percent positive, but I am about %95.

[Xite91]

The more mod warnings I get the less I feel Doc Savage is the most appropriate avatar. Then it struck me, this is perfect.

Every time I see your avi, I think "then you, or I, or both shall go with him!"
^ Probably one of the most epic lines in that play, and of course the movie

[Xite91]

I used to think of the movie as a guilty pleasure but after seeing the I bite my thumb scene today for the first time in ages it is hee larious.

There's a lot of things like that in that movie. Anything Marcutio says, for example. But I just realized we're still playing a game right now, so uh... who's scum? lol

[Xite91]

I don't like your inability to take a solid stance. Its just not you. We even talked about this after firefly mafia. You decide what your opinion is, latch on, and refuse to believe anything else is right.

First, I have changed a lot about my playstyle since I started playing IRL, so you really can't meta me for what happened about a year ago.
Second, if you

really

are hellbent on using that as my meta, I'm pretty sure I have taken a stance. I have been pushing for SSBF for at least two days (have to go back and check exactly how long). Also, I have my other opinions on who's scum, and have pointed them out, I'm just too goddamn lazy to make cases on each one. And I refuse to believe he's town, so uh... yeah, it's still me, just a much more toned down version of me

[Xite91]

First, I said I'm "more inclined to believe ythan's town atm" not that he's confirmed town. But considering the way richard flipped, I at least know he's not lying, he was the one that nk'd millar. I'm going to leave him be for now and if he becomes scummier in my eyes I'll go after him, but my case around him fell mostly apart when richard flipped VT

I was referring to how you called Richard confirmed town.

Second, I gave my reasons for richard like 87986876587687568 times, so I'm not going to again. Read the thread

If you want me to take your vote off you, then please don't play this game again. I've already read the thread, and I don't feel like reading it again to find something that might not even be there.

Third, yes it's partly based on the case 20 pages back, but it's also based on the points myself and others have been making on him ever since. Honestly, I can't be bothered to make a case every page, and with the way I post, I'm sure the rest of the players here would also like me to refrain from doing so.

See response to Amished.

1) Ya know what, I'm going to quote that post you linked to make sure EVERYONE sees it.

Unvote

Just realized something.
Yesterday him and Ythan were speaking cryptically all day yesterday.
If you paid attention, you would notice that Ythan did claim to have a one shot kill.
Multiple people did tell Richard to kill Millar.
Ythan did hint that he was going to kill Millar.

This would have confirmed at least richard as town.

Okay that's the recap.
But hey, scum can be pretty crafty.
For instance, they killed twomz last night, proving that he was an inventor.
Therefore proving Ythan's one-shot.
Next, if they block Richard, they get rid of Ythan's one shot, kill a townie, and line up a lynch for the next day.
I'm going to believe Richard's claim for now.
That being said,

Vote:SSBF

bolded is what I think you're referring to, if not, show me where, if so, nice misrep.

2) Wow, really? Read that post you linked. PLEASE read the post you linked. The reasons are in there.

3) Obviously some people bit, not to mention it has been proven that a good amount of people haven't been reading, so yeah. The points are just as valid, and I will be restating them when I do the case (working on it right now, but I have like 5 cases to make in the next 2 days, so don't count on it until tomorrow sometime)

[Xite91]

Xite, its more a personality thing than specifically a mafia playstyle. And its not your opinion of smash bras that I'm concerned with. Its richard and now ythan.

Guess what?

I also meant to do this the other day but I should mention something about Xite.
Her game probably looks scummy because she is trying to force cases that most likely aren't there and doesn't back off of them until she finds another. (see her case on fated and the switch over to caenus)
I know Xite pretty well in life and I have to say this playstyle looks more like what I would expect her to do knowing her personality than it does anything scummy.
Any point she makes in life outside of mafia, she does the same thing.
Keep arguing until you know you are wrong and even then, keep it going a while.

I swear to god I remember disputing this somewhere, but reading that black and grey screen is making my eyes hurt. Anyways, what I (thought I) said was that I let things go if I get proven wrong, but I'M the one that has to be proven wrong in order for that to happen. And again, that was quite a while ago, and people change

[Xite91]

1) If you aren't confirming Richard as town in that post, then I have no idea what you're trying to say there.

2) How does Ythan having the one-shot confirm Richard as town? I'm pretty sure no one was disputing Ythan receiving the one-shot; we were trying to figure out whether Richard was telling the truth or not...

3) Obviously not enough people bit, which is the point.

1) Uhm.... I was saying that if certain events had happened, richard would be confirmed town, and scum couldn't let that happen. There was also a bunch else there other than that line. You would do well to read it. Also, that was only one of the many times I clarified that idea IIRC, so uh yeah, try reading the rest of the thread?
2) It doesn't, in certain cases, though, it confirms that richard is not lying, which was most of my reasoning for wanting to lynch him.
3) Uh... so? Probably because, as I said, we've proven that a lot of players haven't been reading the thread, IIRC, therefore, that could be a big reason why not "enough" people bit.

[Xite91]

1) But if there was only a Twomz kill, then Richard still wouldn't have been confirmed because scum could've just blocked Ythan. And the rest of the lines were explaining how Ythan's one-shot being proved made Richard more town, which I STILL don't understand.

2) In certain cases? In what certain cases...?

3) And if people aren't reading the thread, then they're not going to read some huge case that's 20 pages back.

1) Wow... I'm done explaining this. Read me in ISO and stop trying to twist things and maybe you'll see.
2) Read 1
3) That was the point, it probably didn't get a lot of attention on SSBF because no one read it. And I have some time now, so I'm going back and making a case for those that can't see his scumminess.

[Xite91]

This was my previous case on him

Now, I'm doing a full painful ISO on him, so I might restate a lot of what I said in that post, with more to come.

0) Okay, so I just want to point out that SSBF has seen how millar plays. This is actually important considering millar's meta
2) Asks me my policy for a joke vote, not really scummy
3) until you see this post. Diacra responded to him and told him one thing that could be going on, and he rebuttals with something that could very well look like an attack (but not enough of one just yet. Fence-sitting )
4) Okay, at least the fence-sitting has stopped, but I'm not really liking this post. Call it gut though /shrug
5&6) More attacks without attacking, this time on Richard
8) Looking for townie points?
9) Even MORE attacks without attacking.
10) Well at least you finally put an FoS on him. Also, where did your attack on dia go? I mean, she's getting votes now, wouldn't you pay a little bit of attention to her?
11)

I would be up for a policy lynch on millar13. I personally don't like his behavior and his rule-breaking and if he were to continue being disrespectful to the game and the mod doesn't replace him, the next best solution is to lynch him.

Waitwaitwait... didn't he say that he'd seen millar play before?
About youre @Dia1- Didn't she post a town list?
Who replaced Reverse again? I'm willing to bet that if SSBF flipped scum, he's scum too (since the rest of those flipped town)
12) "How so? It's not even inside this game, therefore it is irrelavent."
it was not irrelevant... it had every bit to do with that game.
"But you did ask him a question. That means you're wanting RichardGHP to give him his scum reads AKA, explanations, no matter how minimal that may be"
That's not exactly true. Nice misrep
Diacria wrote:
"Unvote, Vote Supersmash
Picking and choosing targets."
SSBF wrote:
"Wow, at long last, you finally give an explanation for voting someone and you basically OMGUS'd me."

Actually, I'm sad I missed this. Dia had it even before I did. Remember the throwing spaghetti thing I was talking about?
13) One-game meta is not an acceptable meta. Ever.
"f you were talking about that last post, you should have noticed that I made a response to EGL at the end of that paragraph."
You were still tunneling, but at least responding to points against you.
"I did not ask millar to claim, I just said that he can claim if he wanted, just that I suggested he should wait until mylo/lylo or if he got put at L-1 and was asked to claim."
This was exactly what I knew you were going to do, because you covered all of your bases when you told him to claim.

Actually I'm really bored of remaking a case I already made, so I'll start the rest of it at where the last one left off.

42) "Please explain why this is rolefishing. I never asked millar13 to claim at all, I just said that he could claim if he wanted to, just that I'd recommend doing it at L-1/massclaim at Mylo/Lylo.

There was no scummy agenda for that quote.

"
And we're just supposed to believe you? Yah, ok

I'm actually seeing a decent case on raider8169 being formed. A few posts from his hasn't been very good and Rhinox's case against raider8169 is nice as well. I like the bandwagon on both raider8169 and Shattered Viewpoint. I'm still suspicious of Diacria, but his play is improving. Unvote

Shattered Viewpoint and raider8169 are scummy, but raider8169 is scummier. Vote: raider8169

Whaaaaa?

Back in Day 1, I really didn't have much of solid reads, aside from my scum read on Diacria. When Diacria started to become more pro-town, I unvoted because I see no purpose of voting someone that is not your top suspect and I thought there were better suspects them him. That's when my read started to solidfy, as I did eventually vote Shattered Viewpoint, who was one of my first solid scum read.

QFS

Seriously, the reason I went "Whaaaaa?" was because of the obvfence-sitting in that post. And I'm surprised no one else caught it.

"I had a stronger read on Shattered Viewpoint then CSL at the time. I didn't have much to base off of CSL but I felt there was a lot more meat to the Shattered Viewpoint's bandwagon."
This is not reasoning for jumping on a wagon. What do you mean "meat to the [wagon]?"

"This is coming from someone that suspect CSL, RichardGHP, and millar13. Out of the four suspects I've mentioned in ISO: 24, only millar13 is really an easy target, which is why I dropped the case on him. The other three have quality cases put against them that makes them worthy of being lynched. I haven't simply sheeped off other people's case either. I have made my own effort toward trying to get my top five suspects {Charlie, CSL, RichardGHP, animorpherv1, and Chronopie in order from most suspected to least suspected} lynched."
Hoping people can see the scumminess in this post.
43) Is this an attack, or is it just throwing more suspicion around to see if it sticks?
44) "Rage quits are scummy, I will admit that. However, that doesn't always mean I'm going to switch my vote in that instance. I will need to see if RichardGHP comes back and becomes even scummier/successor is scummier before throwing down a vote."
Weren't you convinced he was scum before? What changed? Other than other people's reactions to him, i mean.
"I didn't say he shouldn't role claim, just said it wasn't a good idea. I also did not ask him to claim at all, I just said if he wanted to claim, he could. I would never ask a person to claim where he was at."
Just proving my point further and further
45) I agree with this and don't too. Town do sometimes do it for the same reason, save the slot. The way he did it, though, and when he did it was scummy, I'll agree.
46) But it's a lot harder to complete that goal when you're dead. Open your mind son.
48) Here's how we'll set up the mislynch for tomorrow.
49) And back to the fence-sitting!
50) "Let's say that he attempts to attack his top suspect (In his case, Chronopie)."
Where the hell did chronopie come from?
51) Kind of see a SSBF/Charlie connection, but not too sure yet.
"Things I did where you called my posts nothingness until my FoS on Shattered Viewpoint:

- Got on Shattered Viewpoint for not answering Kmd4390's question.
- Argued with RichardGHP about posting restrictions.
- Briefly talked about Shattered Viewpoint's meta."

But while you did all of these, you added a great ton of fluff to coat it with
55) "*facepalm*
You do realize that if he's telling the truth about his claim that we lose a Day, right? Me suggesting that millar13 should be policy lynched at the beginning of the Day was a terrible idea and I no longer think it's a good idea. Lynching him puts the town at a risk of losing a Day, something that is unaffordable to lose. This is also directed at CSL."
Wait... weren't you pushing the same person's lynch? And now you're (I think) attacking someone for the same idea? hmmm....
57) This post alone should make you think he's scum. Read it a couple times.
62) It was what was written on the brick. Pretty much you pointed out things I had been telling you (and you had been saying nonono to). Then you go back and restate all of that stuff I had already said and vote him. It was like writing on a brick to inform people it was a brick.
Oh look, another case I made on him!
and his rebuttal if you're interested.
66) IT'S A TARP!
67) Another case on an already really suspected player. Wheeeeeeee
68) Youre @ me - no, just every time you attack someone without ACTUALLY attacking so that you can make sure that if they flip town you can say "well I never attacked them"
70) But it happens all the time. This is also not the first time you've said "town would not have a reason to do this" or something to the like. For some reason this is scummy to me.
74) Whohooo more 1-game metaing!
76) How in god's good name did you get 3 votes?

Really too tired to finish this case, since I have a great many more to do in other games. I might later, but don't count on it.
Anyway, the point of the whole case is that I want everyone to vote SSBF

[Xite91]

I'm still struggling lots and lots with this game. But. Let's look and see who fell where when Ythan countered Richard. Scum knew both were Town, and knew that neither of them had gotten blocked (probably - it's a distant possibility that they blocked Richard, but everything, especially the lack of Twomz block, points against it).

So much bad in this post. Hey plum? You should probably think before you post.
Anyways, here's what I want to know. How are you so sure that Tybalt(Ythan, since you don't seem to be reading ) is town?
Just this post made me so positive you're scum, I'm seriously considering voting you.
Actually

Unvote, Vote: Plum

Considering that people have been ignoring my obvious wanting of SSBFscum lynched

[Xite91]

Hm?

hm what?
I have no idea how to respond to that post

[Xite91]

Welcome to the club. Either I'm completely lost in the game or your post suspecting me wasn't clear enough for me to be able to properly respond to it.

I'll say that I'm not

certain

Ythan is Town but it's very likely that he is, and it's almost completely confirmed that he was the one to kill millar. That's about all that I can see to respond to clearly in your post, though.

Yeah, but there was no "I think he's town" you were speaking almost as if he's flipped already, and I honestly feel it's a scumslip and you do know he's town.

[Xite91]

EBWOP
This was supposed to be on that last post...

I have a thing for scummy avatars.

Ythan, what happened to scumhunting?

[Xite91]

At this point, I really don't see any possibility whatsoever of Xite being town. I mean... What townie would spend their time and effort making a case like this, and then suddenly vote-hop onto Plum because she's calling Ythan town...? Especially in the time-frame Xite did it in...

I'm still struggling lots and lots with this game. But. Let's look and see who fell where when Ythan countered Richard.

Scum knew both were Town, and knew that neither of them had gotten blocked

(probably - it's a distant possibility that they blocked Richard, but everything, especially the lack of Twomz block, points against it).

Tell me this doesn't SCREAM that she's not paying attention and thinks Ythan already flipped? Please, someone tell me that, because it's so obviously a scumslip to me that I couldn't not vote her. Sides, the SSBF wagon will happen, but I'd prefer the Plum one atm.

The votehop to me is a bit . . . eh, given circumstances (I certainly would've been open to you trying to get me onto the SSBF wagon) . . . but. Well. Townread on you possibly needs a reevaluation but honestly isn't dissolved here and now.

Boo. You voted me, so now I'm not going to give you what you want.

[Xite91]

Boo, you voted me and weren't interested enough in your original and longstanding case to talk to me about my suspicions of SSBF.

If you want, I could link you to some of the flips which had me swear off voting on even strong 'scum-slips' but naturally you'd call WIFOM if it comes from me and from your perspective there would be truth to that.

If you want I can say what I meant to be implied:

"quote="Plum, edited"]I'm still struggling lots and lots with this game. But. Let's look and see who fell where when Ythan countered Richard.

Assuming Ythan is Town, which given that he must have made the millar kill is very very, probable,

scum knew both were Town, and knew that neither of them had gotten blocked (probably - it's a distant possibility that they blocked Richard, but everything, especially the lack of Twomz block, points against it).

[/quote]

Oh, I care plenty in my SSBF case, but that will take off and if it doesn't, ok, I'll just make another one referencing the last ones. I figure it's futile until other people start realizing he's scummy because this is the THIRD case I've made on him, and have been suspecting him since D1.

I don't go for a lot of strong scumslips too, but when you're that positive someone's town AND it feels like you weren't paying attention to the game and it looked like you thought Ythan had already flipped, it looks way too much like you are scum for me to believe you're not.

Thing is, that's not what you said, and sadly, I'm not going to believe that's what you meant because it does not look remotely right compared to the way you actual post was made. Also, you still can't be even pretty sure he's town based on his kill, because it was given to him by an inventor.

And just to clarify because I feel I will have to (even though I've already said this) The reason I feel Ythan is more likely to be town now is because I no longer have any proof that he lied, so I cannot assume he did, which was a big part of why I thought he was scum.

[Xite91]

...

Right. We disagree, I'll hazard that you're probably Town, you think I'm scum.

Uhm... ok? My vote's going to stay for the slight buddying up

[Xite91]

Xite 1690- That line is what was the focus of our exchange yesterday. What I think is tripping Nacho up is that what you actually posted was that Richard is confirmed town based on what happened the day before. Then you go on to night speculation. What I think, you think, is that the certain actions that would lead to Richard as being confirmed town is what you posted after you said Richard is confirmed town (the nightkill speculation). You confirming Richard should have came after the nightkill speculation in that post, not before.

Oh my fucking god if I have to say it again I'm going to commit mafia suicide. I did not say he was CONFIRMED town, I said I was more likely to believe he was town at that point. Please stop misrepresenting my post to make it look like I KNEW he was town because as I said, NOTHING is certain unless you have inside information. Which I don't.

Xite's vote is only the 4th (based on the number of players not actual number of votes). With so many still alive, I would classify this as early. I do not like the fact that you expected Ythan to counter claim,

but earlier you state you are more apt to believe Richard is town due to meta

(however you then go on
to say he is either scum or a detriment to the town and should be lynched).

bolded. Please quote this, because I don't remember it.
I remember saying he is probtown AFTER the whole claim thing because ideas clicked like a room full of mousetraps.
Also, I explained why I expected it. Read the day before

Chrono puts wagon at L-2 and uses IIoA (seems to shrug off commenting on whether Richard is scummy and sticks to it being impossible for him to be telling the truth based on his claimed role).

(SSBF>Chrono>Xite>Jahudo>Locke)

Ani puts Richard at L-1, with no reason why, though unvotes when notices it is L-1

(SSBF>Ani>Chrono>Xite>Jahudo>Locke)

Amished has intent to hammer. Questions Richard, even though he doesn't seem to care about the answer. I see no reason why he wouldn't hammer, then if he was town.

(SSBF>Ani>Chrono>Amished>Xite>Jahudo>Locke)

Magua doesn't explicitly claim to want to hammer Richard but states doesn't want day to end, so I believe he was thinking of hammering.

Not seeing how you're getting your ideas of who's more scummy than who based off of what you're giving us. I definitely would not put Ani that high based on just that little line. Same with Amished, how does it seem like he doesn't care about the answer?
Also, why isn't Magua scummy when he did the same as Amished minus the question?

...

Right. We disagree, I'll hazard that you're probably Town, you think I'm scum.

Uhm... ok? My vote's going to stay for the slight buddying up

I'm just summing up the situation. You're wrong about me, but. You seem basically sincere about it, at any rate.

"You're wrong, but the only reason I gave why is because I meant to add full sentences to that post that I made." That's what I'm seeing.

1. I wanted RichardGHP to share information with us because I wanted to see if RichardGHP was actually CPR Doctor or that if he was fakeclaiming scum.

2. Not seeing that at all. I had thought that RichardGHP was likely scum and I supported evidence that he was scum throughout Day 2 and Day 3. Day 3, I was pretty certain that he was scum due to his claim which I believe was false and previous scummy actions.

3. Just because I supported RichardGHP the most didn't mean that he had to be lynched that day or I would throw a fit over it. If he wasn't lynched on that day, I was willing to compromise for Charlie/Chronopie/animorpherv1 as well as they themself have been scummy as well.

1) But didn't you direct him yesterday? And even if you didn't, I know you saw how many other people did.

Also, where's your response to me again?

@Plum - That still doesn't change the fact that YOU WERE TALKING AS IF HE ALREADY FLIPPED AND/OR YOU KNEW HIS ALIGNMENT. Given that you are obviously not caught up yet, I can see that as a scumslip.

[Xite91]

xite-

Unvote

Just realized something.
Yesterday him and Ythan were speaking cryptically all day yesterday.
If you paid attention, you would notice that Ythan did claim to have a one shot kill.
Multiple people did tell Richard to kill Millar.
Ythan did hint that he was going to kill Millar.

This would have

Meaning you are talking about the above

confirmed at least richard as town

Since above happened, = ricard is confirmed town

.

What you said is not what you meant. I'm not calling you scum for it anymore as I have realized this. I'm just pointing out for Nacho that you did not word this post correctly and that is what is causing the confusion. Understand? If not, I'm not talking about it anymore and hopefully Nacho understands, so you won't bang your head into a wall.

Spoiler: more apt to believe Richard town based on meta, bolded

I'm still good with my vote. I don't see how a wagon on him prevented a catchup post to identify his suspects when he had about 3-4 days since his previous post.

Hey xite, do you have any Richard games in mind that I could read and see the extent of his scumhunting?

Well a lot of what I looked at were games still going on (because I read the first few pages of his site ISO) But here are a few I found that were completed, sorted by role;

Town

Christmas time mafia <---- Holy hell multiple paragraphs of text? And I see actual explanations for things too.
Mafia in hell, Michigan <----

This one has me more apt to believe he's town in this game

, but if you read it, he still tries to help a little bit, Although he pulls a terrible gambit in this one, too.

Mafia
Seemingly Normal Mafia <---- Still some points with multiple points of text, but a lot less of that, also he had to be replaced out. I'll also have you note that in his ISO, I found a point where he votes someone and says Oh My God, You Suck. Familiar?

There like two more (I think), but I lost them in my mass amount of tabs. Besides, you could take the time to do a little research on your own

Your first quote of mine - That was me giving the basics of what would happen. Did I say to me? No. I said that if things had gone through and both Ythan and Richard had hit millar, millar would still be alive and it would have confirmed richard as town. These events DID NOT happen. Therefore, it was different than what I wrote and he was not confirmed town.

The twomz kill was what made me unvote richard (it was proof that Ythan got the kill, why else would scum kill him then instead of the night before?)

Your spoiler tags about me - Again, you're misrepresenting what I was saying, that ONE game made me more apt to believe he's town, but the other one didn't. Again, it really wasn't worth much because he was inconsistent in them, which is why I didn't take them very far.

I see now where you got your ideas for where at least a little better, but I'm still not completely sure ani should be as far up there as he is, it seems almost like you're following the crowd a bit with that one.

[Xite91]

@Xite: I'm going to do a bit more rereading on you know. The Richard thing makes sense to me now, but I'm still having trouble understanding why you dropped the SSBF case so readily...

But I will reread, (I'll most likely have time on either Thursday or Friday), so I'll give you something more solid to defend against/drop the case then. For now though, my vote stays.

I did not drop the case, no one has commented on it, so I haven't had a chance to defend it.
When people comment on it, I will defend it.

Also, why do you feel plum is town?

[Xite91]

Chrono- To me, it seemed like you weren't giving any input, just restating facts and using the facts to say this is the truth. You don't comment on past play by Richard, why Richard would lie, whether you believe the Ythan claim over a Richard claim and why. That, to me, seems like you are getting rid of responsibility because facts cannot be disputed, whereas what you feel and why can be.

I can accept this reasoning. It actually is fairly close to my actual reasons. I felt the fact, being indisputable, as they were, were a better case than I could make by myself. Although I do/would take responsibility, should I misinterpret said facts.

I didn't see the point behind posting my own opinions on Richard's/Ythan's play, as the facts (there's that word again), clearly pointed to a certain sequence of events (failing to) transpire, thus my opinions, which are fair more mutable, and open to individual interpretation, would have been extraneous.

Hey chronopie? Why don't you actually

say

something? That would be awesome.

@Jahudo

0) Okay, misinterpreted that. @SSBF Which one did you mean?
4) That's a difference in opinions then.
5&6) He's saying things that other people can take as points against him but not really taking a stance (attacking without attacking)
8) Again, a difference in opinions
9) See 5&6
10) Okay?
11) So, based on WIFOM, you're clearing him on this one?
13) I'm done trying to explain it. I already had a couple times to him. Find it.
42) But if you look at the post he made, that's what made it scummy. Because he asked him to claim without asking and making sure that he covered everything in case someone attacked him for it.
My reasoning for twomz was written somewhere (had to do with his "deal" with kevin... seemed odd to me)
"Only Millar is a really easy target" has part to do with it.
43) I was asking him for a reason.
44) It has something to do with his always saying, oh I could vote for this person (but doesn't) it gives him an excuse if he wants to jump on a wagon, and is a common scum tactic.
48) Lynch him? Lol
49) Again, 44
50) Okay, that was more curiosity mixed with laziness
55) But his aggression (or seeming aggression) was what got me in that post because he had suggested the same thing (and I think that's where Ani got it from, too)
57) It's a lot easier on me if you just read it.
66) I'm convinced that no matter what the explanation would have been, SSBF would have "hated" it
68) But he's not actually making attacks, just saying things other players run with.

[Xite91]

I'm almost done with the SSBF ISO, class about to start. Tomorrow it should be done, as it is taking longer because I'm trying a new method of analysis (to me) along with the standard.

Ythan, I would say, is the scummiest player that people think is town in this game. If anyone else would post like him, those same people would probably attack him for active lurking.

Batt, why would Ythan-scum kill millar-BP?

so people like you do that? It's called WIFOM buddy

[Xite91]

I'm almost done with the SSBF ISO, class about to start. Tomorrow it should be done, as it is taking longer because I'm trying a new method of analysis (to me) along with the standard.

Ythan, I would say, is the scummiest player that people think is town in this game. If anyone else would post like him, those same people would probably attack him for active lurking.

Batt, why would Ythan-scum kill millar-BP?

so people like you do that? It's called WIFOM buddy

I thought you think Ythan is town?

I do, but WIFOM is one of my biggest pet peeves. Scum do not need a reason for doing anything because for some reason, everyone always goes, "well why would scum do that?" Your question really ought to be "why would town do that?" I feel we'd catch more scum that way.

[Xite91]

If you want to make a statement with your votes then don't announce as much when you do it. Who is still trying to waste their time with "Wait why is Ythan obvtown" like they haven't been keeping up with the game? Someone who either doesn't get it or is running out of avenues to pursue as scum.

You're not obvtown, just more likely town than say, SSBF or Plum. Don't act like your kill confirms you as town plox. Also, you should definitely start playing. That would be the thing a good townie would do

[Xite91]

I'm about to go all romeo on you

[Xite91]

@Jahudo
5&6) *facepalm* you're completely missing the point here... how did that at all give you the conclusion that he was avoiding questions?
42) Asking directly would have been pro-town in this case, because of the fact that millar said he was willing to claim, but SSBF made sure no one could attack him for it.
57) No, it was more following the crowd/ fence-sitting and stuff... I guess that post just doesn't scream scum to you like it did to me

[Xite91]

He was saying things that people will see and go, "oh, that is scummy." but he's not attacking him with it, just pointing it out so someone else will.
And I'll go through and give you xite-vision of the post later tonight

[Xite91]

@Jahudo - How the hell is that not scummy?

[Xite91]

Motivation. Scum want to look pro town and town want to catch scum. So its in the scum's best interest to attack with the scum tell so they look pro-town for scumhunting. The townie doesn't care as much who gets the credit, as long as the investigation becomes solid enough to have a good idea if someone is scum.

But this barely means anything to the point I was making. No, town shouldn't care who gets the credit, but if they believe someone is scum they will genuinely push for a lynch, there was nothing genuine to posts of his like that. He was trying to get suspicions out there, but wasn't ACTUALLY attacking them so that after the lynch happened of them (if it did) he would not be looked at so much because he didn't actually "start" the attack.

[Xite91]

Maybe someone other than SSBF should repeat that criticism.

I already have said something to that effect. It's something I actually agree with him on, but he's still scum

[Xite91]

I'm going to stay active enough in this game to not be replaced out by normal means. That's just the way it is. Also, nothing besides my lack of interest in the game has earned me anything but town points.

That's not really true, but for now I'm just going to say that if anyone that loves town has a kill, it should probably hit you. Active lurking is a pain in the ass

[Xite91]

Plum, Fan, Xite.

what the hell does that mean?