A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[popsofctown]

Who failed to NK me so I wouldn't have to finish this 67 page thread. I want names. I will have blood.

Why the heck did you guys lynch Feysal, he was bleeding fairy dust d1. Are you serious?

This isn't my catchup post, my catchup post will have the puddle of text I'm keeping in notepad, and will come after I finish my reread. Which I need to finish in a week. Lovely.

[popsofctown]

Ok.


So now you guys are killing eachother for not wanting to lynch obvtownoFeysal (who suggested he had more to say).

Hito, provide me with a reaction image.

[popsofctown]

MoI kill claim?

chesskid's "policy vigging" instead of all the day one scummy folk was pretty obviously MoI not wanting every single one of his posts requoted for negative inspection for the rest of the game. It had to be done. Also, now I don't have to read his posts anymore.

[popsofctown]

I'm on page 47 now. Don't post until I'm finished. I'm currently learning about some sort of horrible thing called a five page treadmill and it quite scares me to death.

[popsofctown]

So Feysal is scum and should be lynched. TS' white knighting Feysal when I started to question him about his assertion that the Chesskid kill must be the Stark kill is also relevant and means a TS/Feysal team is not unlikely.

No. No... I can't keep going. Can I please be excused from reading the rest of Day 2? I can't take it anymore. This is too painful.

[popsofctown]

I have almost know ability to read Zdenek because his avatar is an oily old man kissing a snake with illegible blood colored writing in front.

Just bein straight up honest.

It's strange that Zdenek didn't interact with chesskid at all. Or that draw-NK behavior looks so much like survivor behavior. Or that he didn't softclaim anything. What the heck do you mean "some people wouldn't think of that?" steedface? When you get hider, do you try to figure out how you can profit from it? When you get PGO do you play like a VT? It's utterly natural. Zdenek didn't even nameclaim D2. There was no drawback to him nameclaiming day 2, at all. It would just confirm him to namecops and make scum nervous. The scum aren't going to have "pick someone and if their name is Tywin Lannister you can kill them even if they are bulletproof lullullull!" that's bastard.

"Sup guys, I'm Tywin Lannister and I'm gonna kick butt and take names"

"Hey guys since chesskid flipped Tyrone I wanted to claim that I'm Tywin, cause maybe that might have something to do with the Hand of the King?"

"Hey guys, I tolty got smahsed toniht. BTW I am Tywin Lannister soo benmnage needs to quitt strutting im DA REAL KING."

That's ways to do it with like, three different playstyles. I'm sure Zdenek's playstyle provides some manner of making an excuse to nameclaim, which would make scum worry at the very least about his namecop confirmation or if he's actually trying to connect with one of those roles where two people have to find eachother to gain a power.

unvote every vote greyICE ever, ever made

vote Zdenek

[popsofctown]

If you're confused by the midpost change in tone, I reread the page and understood what was going on with the roleclaim.

[popsofctown]

he obviously wants to eat zdenek's tongue. whatever that means.

[popsofctown]

i missed why he did it. ghost is scummy though

[popsofctown]

hascow really hasn't done enough scumhunting this game. He needs to step it up.

[popsofctown]

who's modconfirmed town and who's just DGB-thinks-this-person's-town-because-she's-never-wrong

[popsofctown]

I'm not sure I buy a scum/third party that becomes NK immune - most SKs would start with the power and most scum don't seem like they'd get a built in lyncher sort of sub role.

Rolecop pulled "modified bulletproof". He could be lying about how it's modified.

[popsofctown]

You're bulletproof if you were on yesterday's lynch wagon. You're bulletproof if you weren't on yesterday's lynch wagon. You become bulletproof once you kill your first stark. You remain bulletproof if you don't kill starks. You're bulletproof if you didn't shoot a stark last night. You're bulletproof as long as otherSK, <soandso> remains alive. You're bulletproof from scum, not from vigs. You're bulletproof from vigs, not from scum. You're bulletproof every night you don't send in a kill.

I could keep going. Full-metal-jacket bulletproof SKs are by no means standard. 1-shot BP is exceedingly common, sometimes SKs are given just investigation immunity but not kill immunity, etc, etc. There's all sorts of BP roles the SK could have, and if you think a game of this size ought to grant him full protection, then it's probably one of those variants that's very close to full BP.

[popsofctown]

Thor is the one who diverted me off to SK scenarios, by saying, "SKs can only be full bulletbroof, ergo town". He can very well be scum with a more difficult BP trigger. He's not town, I don't see how anyone could be that bad at mafia and do nothing with a BP role. Besides, he claims to have been thinking about ways to help the town with his BP role, because he said today he wanted to draw NKs, but that doesn't match up with his D2 play.

I'd much rather try to lynch scum but miss and hit an SK rather than try to lynch scum but miss and hit town.

@pops - and all of your conclusions are no more or less valid than mine, except that due to lack of certain conclusion about him unless you can showcase some sort of scummy/SK play from him he's not the optimal lynch today, natch.

Read the flipping thread. He's lying and I've said as much. He claimed to be a bulletproof that's trying to draw NKs, but day 2 he didn't try to draw NKs.

[popsofctown]

Is there seriously no one in this thread who is suspicious about the blinding speed with which zdenek achieved his BP status (if it works like he says)

[popsofctown]

Like I didn't think I would even have to point that out but I still haven't seen it brought up.

[popsofctown]

Is there seriously no one in this thread who is suspicious about the blinding speed with which zdenek achieved his BP status (if it works like he says)

I'm in agreement with cow (presuming I'm translating correctly).

First - if you believe his claim this is meaningless because he's town and is telling the truth.
Second - if you don't believe his claim this is meaningless because he's scum and is lying about the speed anyway.
Third - it doesn't even seem 'suspiciously' fast anyway.

Please stop burning your town points trying to get this lynch today. Pretty, pretty, please, with hot smooches on top.

First - Scum never tell the truth, ever? Kast hadn't claimed how much he knew, perhaps zdenek decided not to lie when the truth would work better. His d2 play doesn't contradict a bulletproof player. His d2 play contradicts a bulletproof

townie

.
Second - Valid, the point of me mentioning the speed was <First>.
Third - How could scumZdenek trigger his vest any faster? Killing chesskid N0? I'm saying the day game does not support bulletproof-townZdenek at all, yet the night game supports scumZdenek rather accurately.

Is there seriously no one in this thread who is suspicious about the blinding speed with which zdenek achieved his BP status (if it works like he says)

Appeal to probability is a fail argument. Also, what Thor said.

@pops: Even if Kast is right and Zdenek is SK, why exactly do we want to remove him right now? Starks have much more to fear from Zdenek-SK than town does.

The appeal to probability (appello probabilitatem) is a logical fallacy. It either assumes that because something could happen, it is inevitable that it will happen. This is flawed logic, regardless of the likelihood of the event in question. In this instance the fallacy is often used to exploit paranoia. A second form of the appeal to probability is the appeal to improbability or an appeal to impossibility in which the odds of an occurrence are drastically downplayed in order to bolster an insecure position or brush aside something that is problematic. This form of the appeal often applies to circumstances where the actual odds are not known.

I've never heard of appeal to probability. Wikipedia and the next two google links spoke of something with no clear relation whatsoever to my arguments.

I already explained the SK nonsense, you can go read my post on this page about it.

[popsofctown]

Oh, so it's not on this page anymore. it's 1791

[popsofctown]

Is there seriously no one in this thread who is suspicious about the blinding speed with which zdenek achieved his BP status (if it works like he says)

Please stop burning your town points trying to get this lynch today. Pretty, pretty, please, with hot smooches on top.

Are you saying you have a townread on zdenek? If that's so, an you explain to me why?

@Raivann: Pretty much everyone else in the thread naturally reads that post the way Magua does. I don't understand what you're seeing, but you're probably imagining it.

[popsofctown]

Is there seriously no one in this thread who is suspicious about the blinding speed with which zdenek achieved his BP status (if it works like he says)

This was your appeal to probability. Basically your argument is "look how unlikely this is to occur. Obviously it didn't". It's like creationists who argue that "it's impossible for all those amino acids to form the proper chain to create life". Just because it is incredibly unlikely doesn't make it impossible.

In other words, I find your argument that "well he met his condition quickly, isn't that convenient" unpersuasive.

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying it did happen, which suggests it was intentional rather than by chance. Of course it could have happened by chance. I'm not proving a theorem, I'm suggesting an increase in likelihood.

Creationism metaphors are probably not going to make a lot of progress, so I'm not even going to look at that.

[popsofctown]

I know Zdenek, I only meant that your talking about drawing NKs D3 reveals that you're capable of the "higher level of thought" that it hito doesn't think you're capable of.

Since I haven't finished reading D2 though, I guess I'll

unvote

. I'm rather unsure to what extent your V/LA prevented a nameclaim, I can look at it later.

[popsofctown]

Kast, are you a rolecop or a cop?

I was under the impression you were a rolecop, where goons come back as "vanilla player".

Is your rolecop investigation supposed to imply that zdenek is unable to kill people?

If it's not, I don't see why Thor is acting like zdenek is confirmed town, or why you're concerned about a pm touching up exactly what zdenek's role is. No matter what his alignment, the mod told you kill immune, but he's actually NK immune, he noticed this when zdenek made his own claim, so he told you the exact title. Doesn't have to do with alignment at all, as a rolecop you should expect to get correct role names down to the letter.

pedit: im gonna double post to answer magua's post cuz i can

[popsofctown]

NVM LoL beckons

[popsofctown]

15) Zdenek: Non-Stark, and mod-meta leads me to believe non-SK as well (as I'd either expect that to show up in the rolecop report, or for the rolecop report to be empty, like it was for danakillsu)

So you expect the SK to have NO extra power whatsoever? "You are a mafia B goon. You have no partners, though, good luck beating the 5 man scumteam i put in the game with every single member having a power. I'm an evil, evil moderator, go to hell."
Your attitudes toward danakillsu and zdenek seem rather inconsistent with eachother.


OKs although I am clearly not capable of conceding the last word on zdenek, the lynch hasn't been practical for a while, I've just been arguing.

unvote, vote Nexus

for now. I read all his really scummy stuff earlier, I can't remember what it was though. But 90% of what Magua says makes bunches of sense so I'm just gonna proxy my vote at him.

[popsofctown]

So you expect the SK to have NO extra power whatsoever? "You are a mafia B goon. You have no partners, though, good luck beating the 5 man scumteam i put in the game with every single member having a power. I'm an evil, evil moderator, go to hell."

I expect a serial killer to have a nightkill. The rolecop on Zdenek is "Modified Nightkill Immune." No mention of a nightkill.

I would expect an SK who is rolecopped to either come up as, "Modified Nightkill Immune Nightkiller" *or* "Vanilla" depending upon investigation immunity dynamics. I would not expect them to come up with only *part* of their role.

Your attitudes toward danakillsu and zdenek seem rather inconsistent with eachother.

How so? Dana could be a Stark goon. Zdenek, IMO, cannot possibly be Stark. Where's the inconsistency?

An SK's nightkill can be considered factional. Calling the scum's nightkill factional but the SK's kill part of the PR is a rather silly nerf for an already weak role, but if you have a meta that says the mod is into that I guess it's possible. He could also have a small number of partners, or be outright scum, or be a survivor, etc etc. It's a theme game.

My case is that zdenek's role+alignment claim matches up poorly with his play. Your counter argument is, "well, all the other possibilities are unlikely because of how I view the modWIFOM." While you might be right because outguessing in the mod always ends up being part of the game, hopefully you can at least see how I wouldn't be very happy about it.

[popsofctown]

I expect a serial killer to have a nightkill. The rolecop on Zdenek is "Modified Nightkill Immune." No mention of a nightkill.

So what does modified mean? Modified with a nightkill?

We can lynch Zdenek-SK, and tomorrow we can lynch Kast-rolecop-scum. I will be NK'd by the scum for suggesting this, unless a few of you express your willingness to carry out this plan, sincere or not. But try to be convincing.

VOTE: Zdenek

Let's deff do this starting tomorrow.

[popsofctown]

benmage should be the L-1 vote on the wagon while we are at the tables. Then the player in question will claim to his table. If the claim makes those players think he needs to live another night, they will self vote to signal there was an acceptable claim. We have to decide on these things ahead of time.

If benmage wants to encourage a wagon he can vote, unvote the wagon as many times as he wants, but i think it's best if he's L-1.

[popsofctown]

you think he's scum?

[popsofctown]

there's a small possibility he has an investigative PR. If you trust him, that outweighs the chance he's scum

[popsofctown]

unvote, vote zdenek

[popsofctown]

ITT we play bad mafia because it's a theme game.

[popsofctown]

cow, please change your read on me to "moos with satisfaction towards popsofctown".

[popsofctown]

imo, best to lynch DGB before a night that it is inconvenient for scum to NK her clears. like right after a pr claim

[popsofctown]

do you mean thought out, or thought of, like, few people think-of this.

I meant best as in optimal, not sure how much i favor lynching you at all.

[popsofctown]

unvote

[popsofctown]

vote Feysal

Unvote

vote Raivann

[popsofctown]

I coudve sworn I posted here.


Anyway, I don't see why we can't lynch normally today.

Town A votes Town B
Everyone else votes Town B
Town B nominates Town C as champ (if he doesn't he can screw everyone over but viola, alignment info)
Town A nominates Scum A as champ
All townies unanimously vote for Town C to kick Scum A's butt.

[popsofctown]

I'm rather confused.

1. We're pretty sure we don't have a doc, because Kast died.
2. zdenek got roleblocked
3. A kill was missing last night.
4. Kast's death means that zdenek is confirmed modified bulletproof. He cannot be a vigilante because that's a role. He can be a godfather variant because factional nightkill is not a role.
5. Lynching zden and freeing up the roleblock is bad because.....?????????????????????????????????

This isn't SK hunting. This is saying that a lynch with a 20% chance of hitting scum and 80% chance of hitting a neutral is far better than a lynch with a 35% chance of hitting scum and 60% chance of hitting town.

[popsofctown]

tbclear, only not voting him because i'm still sorting out champion implications, not because im a waffler

[popsofctown]

Yeah, rereading Magua it does look like he's properly broken the set up. I was never saying my plan was the optimal strategy, I was just saying we can at the least lynch normally because some people seemed to think we had less than a normal lynch.

A really townie person or at least someone we want lots of info on should start the wagon that causes the lynch, and that's probably not me (tbd rolestuffs etc), so I'll just

FoS: zdenek

[popsofctown]

Wasn't gonna support Magua's plan until I understood it.

The heck does "continuing to verify the roleblocker" mean? Please explain how that tells us what Nexus's alignment is.

[popsofctown]

Based on DGB's post, I'm going to assume that we are considering Thor to be the scummiest, and assuming that we are going with Magua's plan to deal with the competition, I won't be voting him under the assumption that he'll be chosen as one of the champions.

Actually Dana is very likely town due to Kasts results.

You're assuming no vanilla scum?

I'm operating under the assumption that the real SK decided to no kill last night, and would like to have another chance to be role-blocked.

Vote Setael

The REAL sk is supposed to beat down the PR stuffed mafia AND kill bulletproof "townie" zdenek in 2 man endgame.

HOW DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL

How does no killing as scum when you're down 234234 member make ANY SENSE AT ALL.

this.

this is ridiculous.


This needs to end now.

[popsofctown]

I don't see the advantage granted us by massclaim. Tomorrow seems a more optimal day, we have pretty clear direction right now and I don't see any painted targets that the scum are already after on the anyhow.

[popsofctown]

Bunnylover's presence was... not. Didn't really say much iirc

[popsofctown]

[quote="Pops']
The REAL sk is supposed to beat down the PR stuffed mafia AND kill bulletproof "townie" zdenek in 2 man endgame.

HOW DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL

How does no killing as scum when you're down 234234 member make ANY SENSE AT ALL.

Perhaps it's not an SK, but another scum team that we haven't had any flips from yet, or perhaps there are other roles that successfully stopped the other kill, but whatever it is, since we have a role-blocker, there is no reason not to give this one more night.[/quote][/quote]
OH EXQUISITE.

AN ENTIRE OTHER SCUMTEAM FROM WHENCE COME NO FLIPS. A SCUMTEAM with at least FOUR players who feels SO THREATENED about an inability to lynch zdenek in endgame in spite of their TRUCKLOAD OF VOTES that they'd rather NO kill than let BULLETPROOF TOWNIE ZDENEK continue his most MASTERFUL reign of accurate scumhunting and tear them apart.

And why the heck as a townie do you want one more night? Are you serious? One more night? Have you read your role pm? No, not the one in your inbox. The one you're pretending to have, in the opening post somewhere. It says you win with the town, timestamp on your death notwithstanding. Leaving town zdenek alive one more night to get roleblocked does nothing but consume a probtown roleblock and leave us off track longer, since we have HORRIBLY GONE WRONG in thinking that the modified bulletproof lurking the thread could POSSIBLY BE SCUM OR THIRD PARTY. You can't even keep track of what you want to be faking, you're reading the game with 3-d glasses. Townzdenek wants to campaign for indefinite life so that he can improve the town's endgame headcount, or campaign for a specific person to die after his flip. Not trying to slip into mylo. In FACT, you should realize that you're town VI by now and be offering to make use of today's mechanic to get us more lynches. YOU AREN'T DOING THAT. YOU'RE BEGGING FOR AN ADDITIONAL NK. YOU'RE PRAYING TO PAGAN GODS THAT NEXUS HAS A COMA OVERNIGHT. YOU'RE ASKING FOR ANOTHER NIGHT SO YOUR SCUMBUDDY CAN SHOOT UNINHIBITED AND "PROVE" YOU TOWN.

[popsofctown]

@benmage. Every single Stark has had a power. Traditionally, one player, one night action. We know zdenek's night action is passive. scumzdenek is totally plausible if his partner has a neat power to try and use at the risk of losing the kill.

In any case, if it's not town, you lynch it. Townzdenek is so far gone. It's just a legend now. The legend of the bulletproof townie that is rewarded for lynching his mates.

[popsofctown]

What's everyones favorite book from this series?

[popsofctown]

Yeah, a town voting bloc by day. Until tonight where some of them are BONED. Oh, and did I mention the whole "challenge" thing going on today? where, if we find a scumbag, we have to give up a townie to actually lynch the fucker? Seriously, if we can net a scumbag guaranteed I'll step out and volunteer my neck for the 1:1.

Read my plan. We are definitively getting our choice of persons lynched, and in addition to that, we either get a second lynch or a confirmed scum.

Andrius, clarify for me your thoughts about hasdgfas as scum.
- Scum can have a dayvig power. I can agree with this. It's not unheard of, and there was one in Last Will II Mafia.
- Scum who has dayvig power will announce it in thread. Shakier on this one. I see little motivation for scum to do this. Reaching back to Last Will II Mafia, we kept the day vig in reserve for more use as a vengeful kill / emergency PR silencer.
- Scum who has dayvig power will announce it in thread and will then shoot a lurking scummember when several people suggested other targets.

I guess my main problem here is, if you have Hasdgfas-scum who has already claimed to be a dayvig, why does he shoot Xtoxm instead of Raivann or Zoraster?

for EPIC TOWN CRED

Everyone is ignoring my question.
You're all dodgy scumbags

[popsofctown]

actually i voted raivann because he said feysal was town day 1 and then switched to scum day 2. I'm even more tunnelled than you think I am.

And zdenek could be scum. From my PoV. I say that because so many different people have said "y u wanna lynch pure sk" by now that I'm really starting the think at least one of the objecters is confused by zdenek not being in their role pm.

Your slot is a rather close second, iff you must know. All the ponies posting this game has seemed like it's about disagreeing with people, which is game related, but sometimes you need to see someone no one else sees and make a case and be a townie. I don't need a burden of proficiency fallacy to see something's wrong.

[popsofctown]

Your slot is a rather close second, iff you must know. All the ponies posting this game has seemed like it's about disagreeing with people, which is game related, but

sometimes you need to see someone no one else sees and make a case and be a townie

. I don't need a burden of proficiency fallacy to see something's wrong.

Okay, no. You are not going to get away with this.

Never mind that we made a case on Raivann (although lots of people suspected him), mini-cases on MoI and Thor, and called people like Magua on aspects of their play. (This isn't me trying to say, "Look how townie we are for scumhunting!" It's proving that you're talking out of your ass.)

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU CALL THIS?

That's day 2, I didn't read day 2.

My suspicion of your slot is a sort of protownness-per-word thing anyhow, so I don't see a problem with using a large, partial sample as long as it wasn't extracted with any bias. Which I don't see any, I stopped reading Day 2 because of LMP posting, not you.
I bet the silver dollar the ice cream machine gave me yesterday though, you disagree.

No one had looked sideways at Zdenek until we wrote that novel that spearheaded a wagon on him. How is that not "seeing something no one else sees and making a case"? Whether or not you agree with that case or think it was town-motivated, the simple fact that you missed something so ginormous means that you're either twisting the facts to prove a point, or you actually cheated and never really read the thread all that closely after replacing in.

I didn't cheat. Day 3 I said, "Day 2 is painful, I'm not reading any more of this." I was expecting hostile encouragement to plough forward, but it never came, so I never read that day. I make no claim to have read that day whatsoever.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt for about two minutes. Maybe you're just having trouble expressing yourself. So try it again. Why don't you give specific examples of quotes from Twilight Sparkle that you think were just us disagreeing with people rather than giving our own observations? Why don't you see what no one else sees in our play, be a townie, and make a case on us?

Technically, right now.
The entirety of iso seven consists of disagreeing and agreeing with other posters. Including disagreeing with MoI. As if that gets anyone anywhere.
Post 8 is nagging mikujin to play differently. You don't wait for him to do something scummy and then build a case when it happens even though you claim it's in your meta book, but instead you try to agitate into saying something stupid and put him on the defensive.
Post 16, TS devotes plenty of energy to telling MoI to change his posting style. MoI is like, old as the hills. Not gonna happen. But playstyle criticisms have a convenient characteristic of being abstract from the game itself, and as such make good "aggressive" posting material for scum no matter what.

I could keep going, but I don't have time. But that's the sort of thing I object too. Maybe asking questions is a playstyle difference, but my gut doesn't feel well about your slot's approach to the game.

pops, do you have your notes from catching up? The ones you said you were making in your first post of the game?

Spoiler: uneditted notes

post 301: Locke Lamora votes Mikujin for being scummy. I find the vote scummy because it's not going to lead anywhere, there's not much a defense of overapologizing for absence is going to do. It's something to note for later and mark against him, but day 1 is about getting to the bottom to things. He's neither using his vote to get mikujin lynched, because it's obviously weak on its own, nor using his vote to get information, because IMO that kind of point is indefensible. I think it's fakehunting.

DGB in general: I don't buy the "BREAK THE POST RESTRICTION" nonsense. It's patently obvious that no matter the severity of the penalty, it's not going to happen. DGB didn't think it through. Which makes me think I need to move it from the "DGB doing crazy stuff" pile to the "DGB pretending to do crazy stuff to fit her own meta" pile.

MagnaofIllusion wrote:This is a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately [REDACTED] is not going to end before today ends to demonstrate why. Using a claimed Dayvig as a second lynch is going to result in a rushed Vig and a rushed deadline vote. When that happened Day 1 in Clash a Town Bulletproof got lynched at deadline over Scum.

This is a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately [REDACTED] is not going to end before today ends to demonstrate why. Using a claimed Dayvig as a second lynch is going to result in a rushed Vig and a rushed deadline vote. When that happened Day 1 in Clash a Town Bulletproof got lynched at deadline over Scum.

There were 9 scum in Clash of Kings. Shooting one would be nice, but hasdgfas simply shooting one does not help us *nearly* as much as seeing who wanted that person shot. Hasdgfas shooting town without any input is pretty much a complete waste of his ability and opportunity -- shooting town after being directed to gives us the information about who was on the "wagon".

I swear by my mother's grave, officer, I've never seen this discussion in my entire life!

Feysal is town

This is so fail, and I don't know why this site still accepts play like this as the norm. Identifying obvtowns just gets them shot, and has no other benefit. Do you call them town to keep them from getting lynched? Why the heck can't you wait until they're on the chopping block then?


Page 38 is lulzy.

Ghostlin's attack on Bunnylover for demanding a nameclaim from LL makes me think that Ghostlin was hampered from following BL's train of thought by some modconfirmed info suggesting LL is town. Nameclaim was 100% legit, LL can't get lynch immunity for having a Lannister name pre-getting-namecopped, and then claim a different name later if he is namecopped as something different. That'd be having his cake and eating it too.
post 1059 is goodposting.

Never said there was much of them, though.

What are your reads? Why don't you sort players into Town, Neutral, and Scum, at the very least? Also, do you still suspect Nexus? I mean, since you said you'd found scummy stuff from her, although you couldn't remember what? Do you still want to lynch DGB for no other reason than to see if she's telling the truth about her hypocop?

See, exact kind of thing I'm talking about. These aggressive questions. If I'm scummy for not having presented any of these things, present it in a declarative sentence and put a vote with it. If I'm not, lose the edge when you're asking about them. You behave like you don't yet have the evidence to know I'm not on your team, but are ready to behave as such already, which could only be revealed to you by pm. It occurs to me again that this could be a playstyle thing, particularly after the reread you sparked revealed Mina's name at the bottom of the majority of several posts I'd lumped with the same avatar, but a meta read is gonna wait until you're in lynch crosshairs, it's a lot of work.

My reads atm are that zdenek is scum. You're a far away second, third and fourth are yonder still and you won't hear about them. I see no value in discussing townreads, or even scumreads that are rather low on the agenda because they just improve nightkills. If someone has a healthy wagon on them, I'll tell you everything you want to know about them, until then it's just telling scum who's mislynch fodder and who isn't. The only explanation I've heard for revealing townreads thus far in my mafia career is that you can "force scum to shoot your townreads", which sounds as ludicrous as telling your opponent where your Battleship is so he'll be forced to sink it in five straight pegs.

[popsofctown]

Apparently while I was writing Asteroids, this game became a marathon. You'll have to give me time to catch up.

[popsofctown]

caught up. looks like massclaim. Can i have last claim? I seem to be in good enough graces atm, id prefer everyone elses full reveal before mine

[popsofctown]

have all the actives posted their full night history?

[popsofctown]

I'll give you a hint.


















Incest.

[popsofctown]

Incest is Sincest

[popsofctown]

shadow, anything you havent mentioned?

[popsofctown]

Not so sure about that.


I'm Jaime Lannister, the friendly knight. Each night I may select a player, the mod will pm that player that my

name

is jaime lannister.

N1 target, greyice decided to target DGB.
N2, I was still rereading the game, but had a gut town read on Shadow from what I had read of day 1, I selected shadow.
N3, I realized it was retarded of me not to use my power on the dude with flipping governor status, and targetted Benmage.

Things to draw from this:
1. DGB doesn't actually know I'm town. She just knows my name is Jaime Lannister. On the wiki it says that Jaime betrayed the king and then had to get pardoned for it, so he could very well have either alignment since the mod has reserved the right to spit on the canon. If DGB's mason claim can be considered anything but airtight then I see reason for some suspicion of DGB, my impression is that she failed to realize that the pm doesn't confirm me town because she knew that day 0.
2. Shadow did not claim to have been visited by the friendly knight. We have a roleblocker, the roleblocker said he didn't target me. I have to wonder why shadow did not report getting a pm saying that my name is Jaime Lannister. It's possible he's immune to night actions, is a bus driver, or there is a busdriver. Whatever it is it's fishy.

[popsofctown]

Well.

I wasn't roleblocked by a townie N2, we've massclaimed.
I doubt scum roleblock greyICE after his day 1 play. That is not a guy trying to duck under the spotlight and investigate/protect players.
Scum busdriving all actions that would happen to shadow to a living player would still create a report from night 2.
Scum busdriving all actions that would happen to shadow to a player who died, or died soon I suppose, would create a report, but implies Shadow is scum.
Shadow having some sort of immunity to night actions implies Shadow is scum.

I don't see a logical course of action aside from

Vote:Shadow

. I can't think of a town based role interaction that would cause this pm to go missing.

[popsofctown]

Pops, Shadow is town. This isn't based on setup, this is just recognizing town-play when I see it.

Going by the information that we have, I'm betting that either you or Shadow were jailkept by Magna N2. DGB did announce it'd been modconfirmed to her that you were town, so I can easily see a jailkeeping thrown in your direction N2.

derp

Forgot there was a jailkeeper

[popsofctown]

unvote, vote setael

it is boring. cow, dance.

[popsofctown]

unvote

He played the f-card

[popsofctown]

don't worry.

Nexus will still roleblock you no matter what you say.

[popsofctown]

so Thor's bad play outweighs all that role stuff?

[popsofctown]

vote Setael

[popsofctown]

There's honor in fighting to the death, Benmage. Players should play to their wincon until they are no longer allowed to post.

[popsofctown]

Why did scumSetael pick someone who isn't conftown as a champion? You can say "to wriggle out of it later", but in this town's environment it was pretty clear that we would find this unacceptable.
But that WIFOMs back and forth.

I suppose she didn't expect to lose the champion fight either which way, so she picked Magua for the off chance she can wriggle.

[popsofctown]

Setael if you flip town I promise to campaign for Magualynch <3

[popsofctown]

unvote

Not ready for day to end.

Maybe we should consider lynching zdenek. Reducing the deaths at night could be nice. I don't see him as town at all, there's no way a townie goes bulletproof for the rest of the game. Remember the massclaim? We're already loaded.

[popsofctown]

zdenek

But maybe scum shot zdnek for good measure.

[popsofctown]

Also, if I'm scumbuddies with Setael, then that means that I bussed D1 (Diddin), D3 (Setael), D4 (Setael), and D5 (Setael). This would make me the best partner ever.

I hear that's really good strat for powerrole.scumteam

[popsofctown]

vote: Setael

Maybe the scum no kill happened after all.

[popsofctown]

zdenek theorized a scum no kill to explain why nexus's roleblock earlier in the game successful reduced the number of night deaths.

[popsofctown]

remind me to second faraday's title about posting with his alt posting mistakes.

[popsofctown]

Hasgdfas, just for the sake of it, did you hear from me last night?

I disagreed with massclaiming ftr.


Lynchmepls sticks out to me as a good lynch. Genuine tunneling on a townie shouldn't be counted to heavily for someone, I've learned that the hard way.

[popsofctown]

Vote:zdenek

It's finally happening.

[popsofctown]

How was dinner benmage?

[popsofctown]

LL is still alive??

[popsofctown]

So you don't disagree with any of his various town reads that narrow you down to being scum, you agree with those, you just want the conclusion that you're scum to be ignored at the end.

[popsofctown]

We're using different terminology, I call anything that brings you to believe that a certain person is probtown as "townread".

I feel like I shouldn't have had to prompt you to hear what you didn't agree with. Or prompt you again to explain why you think your assumptions are superior to Magua's in those two cases. Or prompt you to give a decent defense since you're on the chopping block.

[popsofctown]

You aren't even arguing that you aren't scum anymore. You're only arguing that you aren't SK. It's funny, really.


pedit: LL, Setael is confirmed to be immune to night actions... This is a good argument..

[popsofctown]

So that erodes the argument zden isn't SK completely?

[popsofctown]

Was there another night that he was roleblocked and only one kill happened? Or just the one?

[popsofctown]

VOTECOUNT GOES HERE WHEEEEEEEEEEEE TOP OF THE PAGE.

A giant among man, our Eddard Stark.

[popsofctown]

ebwop, men

[popsofctown]

Speaking of Setael..


Do you think it's a towntell or scumtell for Magua that he was selected as champion, and then railed upon?

I'm thinking about the options Setael had. Picking Thor was worthless, she'd just die. So she could pick a confirmed town, unconfirmed town, or her scum partner.
No matter who she picked, she wouldn't be able to get that person killed, Benmage would pick Thor and then Thor would be the only one to die.

Her pleas the next day had more chance of success. There's no locked thread, she could influence us into deviating from Benmage's plan.

If she picks an unconfirmed town, she at most could get that unconfirmed townie lynched, then she dies for being wrong. If she picks scum, she gets a lot of town cred, and can ascetic-tank her way through the rest of the game. At worst, she dies adistanced from that partner.

But the whole thing risk killing Magua, who has had better play all game. So then it doesn't seem like she'd do that. Usually you let the guy doing well go win. It's simpler.

But then again, did she ever really have a chance to convince people she was innocent? She seemed to think so. Perhaps she was acting like she did, so we would think Magua is town. I have no conclusion on this.
This post sucks.

[popsofctown]

Zdenek, can you tell us if you're Mafia or the SK, please? And who your buddy is, on the "off chance" that you have one?

Because you really, really suck at scum. No, seriously. You are godawful at this. I hate myself for having switched to Feysal on D2 right now.

Actually, thank you so much for that. "Off chance." It was really sweet of you.

VOTE: ZdenekI've been doing a lot of rereading and discussing behind the scenes over the past few days, but I haven't got a chance to put a big post together.

However, I did a scenario. I'd

It really doesn't matter if there are one or two Mafia remaining...

as long as we take out the other scum tomorrow

.

And not only is the fifth scum is certainly Zdenek, but the sixth one (if there is one) is LynchMePls. (Disclaimer: LMP is last on my list of ISOs.) In fact, I'd almost be willing to call Zdenek and LMP as the Starks, and Locke as the SK based on tha.

Locke? LMP? Both of you seem to be arguing that danakillsu is Stark--the former as Magua's buddy (do you think Magua was bussing diddin and Setael, out of curiosity?), the latter as Zdenek's. But do you think that dana's interactions with Setael

Also, LMP, why are you voting Zdenek if
(After Magua's recent posts, I'm pretty convinced that he's not Stark. That said, I

An open letter to the Serial Killer:

Dear psychopathic bastard,

We greatly appreciate your help in taking out. Then you decided to be. Bastard. So much for letting you win in endgame.

Now let's take a look at things.

We lynch Zdenek and he flips town.

1)

Conclusion: if Zdenek flips town, you should be aiming for scum

Spoiler: Spoilers for this post

Twilight Sparkle is probably not Stark, and also probably right about Zdenek. God, I feel so dirty.

Which head is this? I want to know. I promise not to laugh

Spoiler: Spoiler

outside of spoiler tags

[popsofctown]

facepalm

[popsofctown]

I enjoyed that post

[popsofctown]

MAYBE THE KILL IMMUNE TOWNIE ISN'T A TOWNIE

[popsofctown]

THE GRAVITY OF BENMAGE'S ACTIONS DIDN'T HIT ME UNTIL SPANISH. WE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT 3 RL DAYS, THEN LYNCH ZDENEK. WE CAN'T LYNCH ZDENEK TODAY. AT ALL. A WON GAME HAS BECOME SERIOUSLY DOUBTFUL. TWICE THE KILLS TONIGHT, UNLESS ZDEN IS PART OF DUO SCUM, BUT THAT'S EVEN FREAKING WORSE.

I'M NOT GOING TO STOP POSTING IN ALL CAPS UNTIL I CALM DOWN.

BENMAGE YOU HAVE THE MOST STUPID FAIL MODWIFOM FOR BELIEVING ZDENEK IS TOWN, EVER. HE IS A MODIFIED LYNCHER WITH A TOWNIE TARGET. HE COMPLEMENTS THE MODIFIED ASCETIC SCUM, THEY ARE A PAIR. THE PLAYER HASN'T MADE A SINGLE PROTOWN POST THE ENTIRE GAME. HE DOESN'T EVEN CLAIM TO BE TOWN HIMSELF ANYMORE, HE SUBTLY TRIES TO MAKE US GUESS IF HE'S SK OR SCUM, WHICHEVER WE DON'T WANT TO LYNCH.

[popsofctown]

HERE'S SOME MODWIFOM, SETAEL PROBABLY WOULD BECOME ASCETIC WHEN MAGUA DIED

[popsofctown]

NORMALLY I WOULD ARGUE THAT ZDENEK'S LYNCH ALSO WOULD HAVE PROVIDED INFO. I CANNOT EVEN DO THAT IN THIS RIDICULOUS INSTANCE, BECAUSE ZDENEK IS SO OBVSCUM THAT HE IS GETTING BUSSED. HE IS EVEN BUSSING

HIMSELF

. THE ONLY INFO WE WOULD BE PROVIDED IS THAT BENMAGE IS SCUMMY. WHICH IS INVALIDATED. BECAUSE YOU FORCED A MASSCLAIM SO YOU COULD GET CONFIRMED INNOCENT AND LIVE LONGER WITH A DOCCER ON YOU, WHO CARES ABOUT ALL THE OTHER CONF-TOWNIES THAT GET SURGICALLY REMOVED AND LOSIN THE DOCTOR HUH.

I MEAN GOODNESS GRACIOUS I SENT YOU A JAIME LANNISTER PM MYSELF SO YOU COULD QUIETLY FORBID MY LYNCH WITH THAT LIST THINGIE, NOT SO THAT YOU COULD OUT ME TO THE SCUM AND PAINT A BULL'S EYE ON MY FOREHEAD

[popsofctown]

1. Kast investigation on Zdenek. Where is the argument he is scum? The people who think this believe him to be a BP scum, and obviously not the GF......wow. a simple correct will suffice.

HERE IS A LINK TO THE THEME GAME SETUP RULES. THEY MUST BE FOLLOWED, AND THE GAME MUST BE BALANCED. WHAT IS UNBALANCED ABOUT A CONDITIONAL BULLETPROOF SCUM THAT CAN STILL BE LYNCHED BY ONE OF ELEVENTEEN CONF TOWNIES AFTER THE GAME P.O.E.'S DOWN NAUGHT.


OH, I FORGOT. IT'S UNBALANCED BECAUSE THE ONE SHOT GOVERNOR GUARDS HIM.

[popsofctown]

IT MAY IN FACT NOT BE POSSIBLE LMP

[popsofctown]

The SK might actually be more powerful than what's left of the scum.

LL, make sure there's no stepping in pm quote territory

[popsofctown]

SK OR SCUM. MY GUESS IS SCUM, COULD BE SK TOO.

[popsofctown]

I think LL just owned the idea of him being BP

[popsofctown]

If I was given a fakeclaim that WASN'T VT, then it wouldn't make much sense AS A VT. Therefore, the fact that my claim makes sense as a VT should tell you that my fakeclaim would have had to be VT from the start to make me scum.

This makes me less likely scum,

though admittedly not a ton less likely

.

This is flatly false. Any claimed name could be VT.

You are stretching and you are refusing to acknowledge that even if your point were true

(which it isn't),

IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU CONFIRMED TOWN

.hat

[popsofctown]

dude. The SK can't be LL. He already posted and proved why he can't be bulletproof. Lyncher out to get you+ no vest+ no partners+PR loaded scum+PR loaded town+large game doesn't add up to a fairly balanced SK, at all.

[popsofctown]

Ok. Ignore LL's original argument and read my post above that one ^^^^

[popsofctown]

goodposting

[popsofctown]

If I was given a fakeclaim that WASN'T VT, then it wouldn't make much sense AS A VT. Therefore, the fact that my claim makes sense as a VT should tell you that my fakeclaim would have had to be VT from the start to make me scum.

This makes me less likely scum,

though admittedly not a ton less likely

.

This is flatly false. Any claimed name could be VT.

You are stretching and you are refusing to acknowledge that even if your point were true

(which it isn't),

IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU CONFIRMED TOWN

.hat

But pops, this is ignoring the full chain of questioning. My original question was "Why are you calling yourself confirmed town". His response had 2 arguments, BOTH OF WHICH I SHOWED DO NOT MAKE HIM CONFIRMED TOWN. But nowhere did he admit that those pieces of evidence do NOT make him CONFIRMED town.

This argument is stupid, and I'm tired of it. The simple fact is dana was blatantly exaggerating by calling himself "confirmed", which is hugely anti-town at best. When people use the word "confirmed", it better damn well be fucking confirmed. I don't keep a spread sheet of all the claims, so when he called himself "confirmed" I spent about a half hour or so looking back in the record trying to figure out what the fuck he was talking about, when I couldn't figure out why he was confirmed I asked him to explain it, and it turned out to be BS.

I do not like the LL lynch. Zoraster's flip confirms LL's name, and Clegane being a SK against Lannister town doesn't seem right.

The colored clause clearly demonstrates that he uses the word confirmed much more loosely than you do. You know that, you just want to rage over semantics and argue past dana. You like to yell things.
The colored text describes the chance of dana being town as if it's somewhere between 0% and 100%. That's not claiming to be guaranteed town.

[popsofctown]

HE SUBTLY TRIES TO MAKE US GUESS IF HE'S SK OR SCUM, WHICHEVER WE DON'T WANT TO LYNCH.

This is ridiculous. I have explained why I can't be the SK and why I am not Stark.

You specifically focus on defending whichever front is most pressing at the moment instead of like, being protown, or claiming to be protown.

[popsofctown]

@Twilight Hito : Ok. Yes. It's possible that zoraster is a lyncher with a bulletproof, uninvestigateable SK target. Which requires zoraster to get him lynched before he dies, period. Meaning the gameplay dynamic is that he pisses Locke Lamora off during the day, then gets shot by Locke Lamora at night by the defensive SK. Sounds like a real treat to play, if only Locke was the one screaming obscenities, then I could enjoy that fabulous role. And I'm sure this has been done before, in some thread, somewhere.

But there's a multitude of reasons that it doesn't look like good design this game. The clause about the NK scenario doesn't confirm Locke, but it does make him being SK less likely. The hard mode difficulty of a lyncher going after LockeSK does not confirm Locke, but it does make him being SK less likely. The presence of a flipped anti town BP... wait zdenek hasn't flipped yet.. I hate this game.... the presence of someone whom I shall consider a flipped antitown BP makes LockeSK less likely (can create draws, if I'm not mistaken).

If Locke's play was terrihorrifailibad, then he could be an optimal lynch in spite of these things. But it hasn't been that bad. LMP hasn't been multiquoting him and caps locking, that's how you know it's not that bad. Actually some of his posts even sound townie.


I'm beginning if zoraster was the only Locke-lyncher.

[popsofctown]

ebwop beginning to wonder if

[popsofctown]

I personally got more towntells drops from Magua than from Shadow, but I respect your opinion.

Assuming there is a stark other than zdenek, whoever that stark is looks pretty townie in the eyes of the town.
If you're going down in flame like Setael, and you have a partner who's doing well (I don't think it's as good if he's doing bad), you would do whatever you can to protect him.

You can interpret Setael's actions as protecting Magua, or WIFOM them back to hurting Magua, but I think it's the former. She had to be doing something. She was far, far too zealous for caught scum.

So I do like a Magua lynch in that respect, and I can go with this.

Vote: Magua

[popsofctown]

pops, your reasoning is terrible. You're town, but your reasoning is still terrible.

Benmage, your PoE reasoning isn't terrible, but goddamn, your governing of Zdenek was.

I think Benmage, hasdgfas, Shadow1psc, and popsofctown are 100% confirmed. I don't care what anyone says.

I think that Locke Lamora, Twilight Sparkle, or danakillsu cannot be Stark.

Hopefully I've made all of my other reads abundantly clear.

Also, I'd like to end this by saying that all of you who think I'm Stark or could possibly be Stark are just fucking terrible. I mean, seriously, seriously, incredibly bad. I really do mean you here, pops, hate to be singling you out on this, but no two sentences you put together make sense in any possible fashion, and I think I may have actually become dumber by trying to read them.

Those of you who think I'm the SK are only marginally terrible. I mean, don't get me wrong, you're still incorrect, but I can at least see where you're coming from.

Well what do you want me to do Magua. My number one pick for scum was governed. The rest of the town is quasi confirmed or full confirmed. Those who aren't confirmed in some degree have played a good town game. The only other option I'd be allowed is LL, and I disagree with you on LL. I have to grab at straws. Are you referring to my play all game? If that's the case, I'm surprised you let it go on for dozens of pages, and only commented on it roundabout survival motive time.

[popsofctown]

unvote

ugh..

[popsofctown]

vote: Twilight Sparkle

Reasoning: I'm conftown I don't have to post reasons when I vote.

[popsofctown]

hascow, does everyone look town to you, or is there some unpopular cantidate who looks better to you?

[popsofctown]

cow. Answer my question

[popsofctown]

Zdenek, what do you think about my plan?

I am opposed to any plan where I end up being lynched.

Thats a nontown claim.

YOU GOVERNED HIM

[popsofctown]

I KNOW RIGHT

[popsofctown]

wait why isn't lmp scum again? a bunch of people called him town

[popsofctown]

i want to catch scum. I care naught for your petty semantics

[popsofctown]

unvote vote LMP

die die die

[popsofctown]

poe

[popsofctown]

Magua, you're town, don't put yourself on a hit list.

I wanna do Magua's doohickey, except on Twilight Sparkle or LMP.

And the other doohickey I'll do that too. I will be a vengeful kingmaker.

[popsofctown]

shadow come vote lmp with me

[popsofctown]

omg epic ninja

[popsofctown]

Dana it has to do with game theory and kingmakers and stuffs. It's complicated and appropriate today.

[popsofctown]

Guys. I hate to be the wet blanket here, but LMP doesn't make much sense as scum.

Doesn't make sense as SK. Hope we can all agree on this one.

Stark. This one's going to be a bit roundabout, and it's going to be setup WIFOM.

Let's pretend that LMP is Stark. He did the chesskid3 kill. First of all, this means that mafia decided to kill chesskid3 over Benmage, hasdgfas, and Locke Lamora, which I'm just not buying.

Secondly, and here's the setup speculation part, I'm 99% sure that MagnaofIllusion jailkept popsofctown N2. pops' friendly neighbor message did not get to Shadow N2. We know that he wasn't roleblocked by town, so that leaves jailkept by Magna, or messed with by an unknown scum PR. It seems obvious to me that there's no way for scum to have a bus driver/redirector, as then they would've just killed Benmage N4 instead of Nexus/Andrius. So I'm going with jailkept by Magna.

That means that Magna, who had lost two partners, didn't choose to protect another partner. Makes sense for Zdenek partner. But for LMP to be Stark, it would mean that he'd have to have some PR that was so valuable that the mafia needed it to go off *even after he claimed a killing role with an SK in the game*.

URGGHHH

unvote, vote Twilight Sparkle

[popsofctown]

Shadow, Setael was ascetic.

[popsofctown]

At least you're posting on the right account.

[popsofctown]

WHY IS THIS GAME SO HARD!!!


Maybe I should just sheep hasgdfas

[popsofctown]

dana whenever i get on a wagon they mount a defense and the defense is good.

Twilight sparkle is the best PoE.
Shadow is close but no one wants to kill shadow for some reason. Because the wedding planner definitely can't be stark.

[popsofctown]

I CAN GO WITH THIS

UNVOTE VOTE LMP

[popsofctown]

dude i just dont even know man

[popsofctown]

[popsofctown]

SHHHHHH

[popsofctown]

i'm fatigued. zzz

[popsofctown]

why does magua have to die before ts

[popsofctown]

sighz.

unvote vote Magua

[popsofctown]

i wash my hands of dis

[popsofctown]

I understand "townie who is unflappable in the face of danger" and "townie desperately trying to leave a good gamestate behind them" are both good masks to wear, but you kinda need to pick one or the other to be convincing. Or do you not really care whether we lynch the person who's "scummier than a fish tank" or the person who's claim you believe 100%?

-hito

i like this lynch

[popsofctown]

unvote

vote benmage

[popsofctown]

I didn't have fun. It was modded fine though.

[popsofctown]

i very well might have. That's why i was killed.

[popsofctown]

I stand somewhere between Magua and Andrius. I think that you have to hand anyone who kills a scum lots of town points, but as endgame starts coming you should start considering the possibility that he's scum. Especially since cow played very scummy all game.