Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Cobblerfone]

/Confirm

I'm a truck driver. Awesome. I'll have to find an avatar to match.

[Cobblerfone]

VOTE: Popular Tajo

I don't think I'm allowed to say why. But he's a "doctor". I'd recruit the doctor even if he weren't guranteed to be a "role-doctor".

[Cobblerfone]

ooba 2011-05-24 09:01:34 0 days 0 hours 4
Magister Ludi 2011-05-24 01:58:14 0 days 7 hours 14
Herodotus 2011-05-24 01:20:30 0 days 7 hours 4
xvart 2011-05-23 14:55:21 0 days 18 hours 2

What are these dates? And why are they the recruits because of them?

[Cobblerfone]

Us teamsters need to stick together. Although, I don't like xvart's latest response. Caught scum?

Is this how he normally plays? It's not a good post that's for certain. Especially if...

PREDIT: Just ignore the mobsters. They are a distraction. Though, it feels like he's trying to defend xvart somehow. Still I'll try not to take it seriously too much.

[Cobblerfone]

Okay, I think Yosarian might be the other recruit.

I don't see xvart being recruited as he's a teamster. Wouldn't you rather try to get a PR as soon as possible rather than a VT?

Are you saying that because Teamster sounds like a vanilla role or because you know it is, fellow teamster?

I'll elaborate when you respond.

[Cobblerfone]

Oh, and I'm probably wrong about Yosarian. It's just my impression. And they're usually wrong.

[Cobblerfone]

Easy mode on?

What are you going on about? Two recruiters. IF xvart is one, Yosarian is the speculated other. Though, I guess we shouldn't assume that there's only two. It would be rather odd for there to be only one recruit per team in N0 I think.

Also, Cobblerfone, what did you mean by "role-doctor"?

Our proffessions are not our roles. So just because Tajo is a "Proffession-Doctor" doesn't mean he's a "Role-Doctor". That's what I meant. My vote's on Tajo because of something in an ongoing game that he's dead in. I would switch to xvart, but I'm waiting for RaudhrGarm.

[Cobblerfone]

Because we might not have the same role.

Thanks, that's exactly the type of comment I was hoping for:

UNVOTE: Tajo

VOTE: xvart

[Cobblerfone]

You were hoping for me to point out the inconsistencies in your logic? Also, you didn't answer my questions posed to you.

I didn't know we teamsters all had different roles. I also didn't know if we all had the same role. I won't say anything else.

I was settling for a policy lynch.

[Cobblerfone]

182 Only helps me feel happy about my vote-placement. Your mouth keeps moving, but I'm not hearing anything. 184: We're in a game with two cults, pandering about power roles is wasted effort.

It was more like me trying to not lynch a potential PR.

[Cobblerfone]

QT? Quicktopic? So if he was a recruitee they're scum together? I think him thinking every Teamster had the same role makes more sense. Regardless of whether the teams get multiple recruits or if either one is scum.

[Cobblerfone]

I'm in agreement; but Cobble is all over the place and backpedaling over how many people he thinks have been recruited based on what gets him out of hot water.

? Backpedaling. All over?

and, what does RaudhrGarm saying I'm a VT have to do with populartajo and why are you waiting on him to allegedly move your vote to me?

It's explained in the quote above:

I didn't know we teamsters all had different roles. I also didn't know if we all had the same role. I won't say anything else.

I was settling for a policy lynch.

I was waiting to see if you'd even be worth moving to. So I was keeping my vote on my recently acquired policy lynch.

@Tanarin: Most votes seem to not have anything to do with Kinetic's guesses at Rampage's picks. (I went back to make sure xvart wasn't one. He isn't. But I also noticed Rampage never gave his guesses. Just as well. I mostly agree with you. Except, instead of going the opposite, I think we should just flat out ignore them for the most part.)

[Cobblerfone]

@xvard wagon: I am not getting the case on him at all. I keep re-reading the thread and just see it basically being the timestamp issue. Anyone care to enlighten me more?

My vote's on him less because of timestamp, more because of his reaction.

when you spoke of policy lynch, of whom were you talking about?

Popular Tajo. It's because of a game he's dead in but I'm not. So I'm unsure as to whether I can elaborate further or not.

[Cobblerfone]

Your first statement makes me believe that you would have recruited a doctor name role on the off chance that he would actually be a doctor; otherwise you are saying that you would have recruited him just because he had doctor in his name... Then you go on to say that you were trying to avoid lynching a potential PR, which your previously suggested is who you would have recruited. If the recruiters are behaving in the same manner that you are you should be lynching that person. And, your bail on that wagon makes no sense because you wanted to avoid lynching a potential PR so why did you jump on that wagon to begin with. You are obviously trying to sneak onto whatever wagon you can without making waves and then when you do make waves change your story.

I know the role I have. I was halfway sure that all teamsters might've had it too. To explain in short: I'm unrecruitable. The scum will have to lynch or kill me. That's the difference that made me not want to lynch you.

I didn't know we teamsters all had different roles. I also didn't know if we all had the same role. I won't say anything else.

I was settling for a policy lynch.

Would you rather policy lynch someone or someone you think is scum?

I switched votes didn't I? If someone's more suspicious, I'll switch again.

[Cobblerfone]

I switched when you revealed we probably weren't the same role.

And the post right after I accuse Yosarian of being the "other recruit", I acknowledge that it's only an impression. And that my impressions are not things I take seriously anymore.

[Cobblerfone]

People that need to post more:

Tajo (Who has nothing except a confirm post)
Dry-Fit (Only one nonconfirm-post post)
Katsuki (Who's decided to lurk)

I'm not going to respond to Yosarian2's post about the unrecruitable modifier.

I was at first reluctant to post this for fear of the mobsters WIFOMing me, but I guess if I reset them every day it shouldn't matter right?
Townreads for today:
DrippingGoofball (I would prefer if doctors target her as she requested.)
Yosarian2 (His most recent posts seem more sincere. Still, I'm not good at judging tone I guess.)
Katsuki
Magister Ludi

[Cobblerfone]

*Herodotus is also a townread of mine.

[Cobblerfone]

Cobble - care to elaborate on flavor behind your unrecruitableness?

It might hint too much at the role I have. I like your latest post.

UNVOTE: Xvart

[Cobblerfone]

What I would like is for you to explain why you claimed so prematurely.

Because without knowledge of my frame of reference xvart's points against actually make sense. If I weren't me, I might've followed them.

Good scum play? Heck naw, I'll probably die tonight or tomorrow night whether I was town or scum. But at least I'll be able to use my power once or twice and assuming the cults can't recruit and kill on the same night I'll be doing just as good a favor to the town. I'm intrigued by DGB's plan so even if you think I'm town, I'd prefer the doctors to protect her. If xvart gets to L-1 or something and I can't find anyone scummy, I guess I'll switch back for the benefit of her plan.

[Cobblerfone]

@Cobbler why did you claim?

xvart's points against me were understandable. If I ignored his points or lied about my reasons I would've had to have claimed later and would still appear suspicious for ignoring or lying. And probably nobody would have waited for my claim if I ever were to get close to being lynched.

@DGB: Does the plan require an xvart lynch whether town or scum, or a scum-lynch and you just happen to think xvart is scum, or does it require xvart to be scum and lynched?

[Cobblerfone]

[quote="Flameaxe"Cobble 290: You have Katsuki listed as "decided to lurk" yet Kat is also one of your town reads. Consider me baffled at your logic here.[/quote]

It was the way Kats announced the lurking. Though, it'll be bad if she's recruited. Maybe we should lynch Kats so she can't keep herself from showing a difference in playstyles?

...I'll just remind you of Succession 1 where BOTH recruiters went after me=wierd night zero...

Wasn't that Seraphim and me=weird replaced him?

[Cobblerfone]

sorry everyone. Here's it formatted correctly:

You have Katsuki listed as "decided to lurk" yet Kat is also one of your town reads. Consider me baffled at your logic here.

It was the way Kats announced the lurking. Though, it'll be bad if she's recruited. Maybe we should lynch Kats so she can't keep herself from showing a difference in playstyles?

...I'll just remind you of Succession 1 where BOTH recruiters went after me=wierd night zero...

Wasn't that Seraphim and me=weird replaced him?

[Cobblerfone]

You want to lynch a town read so she doesn't get recruited later?

I was asking if we should lynch her because if she gets turned we won't really know. Plus, maybe the threat will flush her out. I really just want the lurkers to stop lurking.

Seraphim skating by on prod is odd. If he's the type of person that two previous cult-recruiters picked on N-0, then I guess why not?

@RaudhrGarm: To what extent are your troubles?

I don't think it's at all likely that a pro-town unrecruitable claims unrecruitable at 3 votes. that would be an absolutely terrible move. This is one of those "scum or VI" situations, and cobbler just doesn't seem that dumb to me.

Let me last at least one night. If I'm scum the other scum will kill me anyway. From what I understand if the recruiters try to recruit an unrecruitable or another scum, the recruitment becomes a kill. I only read up to where Seraphim got replaced out in Succession I. I'll read the end to find out if it's explained there. (and assuming similiar mechanics.)

[Cobblerfone]

Oh.

Flameaxe, do you know how the mechanics worked in succesion I?

Actually anyone from the game I guess could answer that. It'll save me the looking.

[Cobblerfone]

I just realized that if anything the general recruitment mechanics probably have something to do with the map. In which case, I'd have no idea what to do about. Might as well stop asking.

@Spring: I've got two completed games. One as vanilla townie, one as no-nighttalk-scum with a daykill. Though I have less faith in meta now because of that scum-game.

[Cobblerfone]

If you actually have the unrecruitable role, why don't you just ask the mod yourself what happens if the scum try to recruit you?

I tried that. It's supposed to be left open as to what happens. I don't really know.

So they killed OR recruited each night. I could have sworn I read the scenario I gave somewhere. Eh, guess I'll forget it. It doesn't really matter for me I suppose...

I had a thought about the map, though. I think it'll have to wait until after tonight. If I do die before then though it has to do with going in seperate groups at assigned locations. It depends on what the map actually does and how it works.

[Cobblerfone]

But, you're advocating a lynch on a town read?

Is it really advocating if it's in question form? But I checked back and saw now that Katsuki has posted more recently. Not much though.

[Cobblerfone]

is there a special flavor name for your unrecruitableness? (Sort of like "Visit" or "Tour the Neighborhood" in the sample role PMs.)

I don't see how that would help. (Seeing as how "Visit" and "Tour the Neighborhood" are more-or-less the same power with different names.) And I've already adressed that the flavor will hint too much at my role.

I'm reevaluting my reads. Since they've posted more I'm going to base them off content. (Since there's usually little to go by, my D-1 reads usually rely on tone. I really need to stop doing them like that.)

[Cobblerfone]

@bvoigt: How about if I get to L-2? Why does it matter? Even if the flavor name was the same for every unrecruitable, the flavor would only be verifiable to other unrecruitables. Which would bring more unrecruitables unecessarily in the open. And I know it will be different because it is somewhat tied to my role.

Cobbler:"Let me last at least one night"

That does sound desparate. It felt like there were more people on me than there were, but I guess that's no excuse for the immaturity of that plea.

- But looking up Succession for something that wasn't specifically directed at him

I actually reread to see how Seraphim acted. (Hence why only up until he replaced out) He's been laying low, and if he's been recruited N-0 by two different people before I figured why not look it up?

Ever since I mentioned that the unrecruitable roles in Sucession I also had another ability as well, he's been hinting that he has a second ability that he hasn't claimed. Which, frankly, just makes me more suspicious.

Post 190:

It was more like me trying to not lynch a potential PR.

[Cobblerfone]

Cobblerfone town, leave him alone. I love him to pieces, but I wouldn't recruit him myself. I wouldn't have the heart to force him to lie to people.

<3

It's correct town play to fakeclaim?

I'm not saying anything one way or the other about me. But in this game it would at least draw attention away from any real unrecruitables. And with the added tast of WIFOM-sauce if a lot of recruitables claimed unrecruitable unrecruitables could claim unrecruitable, etc. Town WIFOM, it's amazin'!

So, I've been thinking. What normal ways of finding scum can we do? As far as we know, buddying doesn't work right now (though shouldn't be necessarily excluded), not being able to build a proper case doesn't work (since there are two scum teams), that leaves lurking (and trying too hard to not lurk.) and anything that's way anti-town.

I read some ISOs, I still think Ludi and Yos are town. I felt impressed to read some of the people with less presence. Cecily for instance:

I have no basis for opinion right now because I am unfamiliar with both players,

I feel like I'm at a disadvantage having played with only a small number of people in here.
...
All of this is WIFOM. Having never encountered most of these players I have no basis off of which to judge them. But I think the xvart case is strong enough at the moment to leave my vote there.

I don't know enough about him or anyone else to be able to come up with those reasons on my own.

Why do you feel the need to say this multiple times? If it weren't for the fact that there's more than one scum team I'd vote you. I've gotten to thinking that meta is mostly useless but I'll look up yours to see when you're usually this nervous.

[Cobblerfone]

I read a couple of Cecily's games. Found it null for the evidence gathered. She has repeated herself as town, and has been mostly contentless when scum. (I only found one scum game.)

But, she's posted lightly. (which, admittedly seems to be par for the course for her.) I hope she delivers on that promise for an indepth post tomorrow. (Okay, that's kind of putting words in her mouth. Still- hoping.)

Seraphim, Katsuki, and all the other ISOcially challenged too please. That'd be great. I'm not even sure what the posts will be about. Probably me, or xvart or yos, or batt, or ludi, or dbg, or hero, etc.

I'll get to rereading Hero and xvart and probably others tomorrow btw.

[Cobblerfone]

First, I want to apologize for my previous post (specifically the third paragraph). I was in a snarky mood. Second, I'm finishing my rereads now.

[Cobblerfone]

Cobbler, why aren't you mad at being called a retard?

No comment.

I read a lot of ISOs. (Though ironically didn't reread xvart. His wall posts are too big. Maybe I'll try again later.) I found Ooba's and Fritzler's to be the most surprisingly empty compared to the number of posts. Fritzler's seemed more sincere and Ooba's seems to mostly be set-up talk so...

VOTE: Ooba

[Cobblerfone]

Reread xvart. Then I picked up Chronopie's ISO again and found his ISO similiar to Ooba's.

Considering DGB's opinion I'm not sure whether to switch or not. How do they compare?

[Cobblerfone]

@

Ludi

:Please use the quote tags. Quotation marks don't make for easy reading especially if you leave out the player's name you're quoting.

Seraphim said he'd get to this on Saturday. What do we do? I'm going to wait for Ooba to respond to my vote before switching.

[Cobblerfone]

I changed my mind about Yosarian2.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Yosarian2

Why are you so focused on getting answers out of Rampage? Plus, during confirmation so it's a bit fuzzy of whether you could've been scum by then, you made guesses about the set-up and the number of scum and the way the recruiters pick. Set-up speculation is one of the few scumtells I trust. Especially since you seem to have a history of it from Succession One when you were a confirmed recruit. (Though I can't find the post so if that was actually someone else, it'd be helpful to point it out.)

[Cobblerfone]

I'm hardly "focused" on it. I asked the two cult recruiters one question, on a lark. People are making way too much of what was basically a no-cost longshot gambit that took all of 2 minutes to try.

I meant in relation to Kinetic.

And yes, of course I did setup speculation on day 1 of succession mafia 1.

I was refering to what someone else had said. I still can't find it, but apparently when you were recruited and "confirmed" scum somehow they left you alive because you were leaking (false) details about the number of recruits each team had, etc. I'm not so certain whether you were recruited by then or not, but it's something I took into account when reading your ISO this time.

calling that a scum tell is terrible.

My buddy did it in Cthulhu Speed Mafia. It starts leading to conversation about things that are unconfirmable. But perhaps I should have phrased it as "early mechanic speculation".

[Cobblerfone]

Oh, no no. I was investigated to be a cult recruit, which meant the town knew I was scum but couldn't afford to lynch me until they found the cult recruiters. While I was "confirmed scum" but unlynchable, I played a lot of WIFOM games with the town, so I actually have a pretty good idea of the situation Kinetic and Albert are in, and the strengths and weaknesses of it.

That's what I'm refering to, yes. As for the focusing on ABR, it's more in the way you structure them. I know you technically ask both, but I guess thinking you're scum for post structure is bad.

So yeah. I can't really believe that all four of them are having technical difficulties/emergencies either. Unfortunately until any of them get back/get replaced it's hard to do anything about it.

Unless we choose a lurker to lynch.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Seraphim

[Cobblerfone]

That's pretty much what sucks about this day. We're looking for 2 scum out of 23.

Even worse, they're hunting each other.

Eh, might as well switch back to the "lack of content despite a decent amount of posts".

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Chronopie

[Cobblerfone]

wat





@DGB: xvart and me are on Chronopie. Woah, with RaudhrGarm it's like we're a big happy teamster family again! okay is this really DGB? I know she's... eccentric but really? Would you mind explaining the plan you're supposed to explain tomorrow? Because after thinking about it. I don't see any reason you have to wait until tomorrow unless you have like a really weird role. This is just plain weird. Like "I might even switch to DGB if her wagon picks up"-weird.

[Cobblerfone]

ALRIGHT. SERAPHIM WAS ONLINE. I SAW HIM. HE HAS RECENTLY POSTED IN OTHER GAMES.

Once again:

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Seraphim

[Cobblerfone]

Okay this is a bit meta, but Ludi could you please use the quote-tags? Quotation marks are just awful.

I think ive let people share their thoughts plenty

, and try and get inside the CRs head, try and figure out who would be a good recruit and who has been acting anti-town.

Maybe it's because of all the people you're the one I'm paying least attention to due to meta (and quotation marks). But, I don't really remember any of this. Especially the bolded.

Guess I'll ISO you again. But seriously, what's with the bolded?

[Cobblerfone]

and try and get inside the CRs head, try and figure out who would be a good recruit

Don't get me wrong, I remember this. It's just the first and last parts. really.

[Cobblerfone]

Lady and Poro are town from that exchange.

Meh.... Through process of elimination I'll go

Chronopie
RaudhrGarm
Seraphim

[Cobblerfone]

Cobblerfone, Magister Ludi: Have either of you ever played with Kinetic or Albert before?

I have not. I have two fully completed games and another one that I am dead in now. Out of those I have one scum game and two town games. I have played with these players:

DGB
Tajo
Ludi

[Cobblerfone]

Oh, and technically RaudhrGarm, but I Daykilled him quickly in my scum game.

[Cobblerfone]

OH! I forgot another player I've played with: Katsuki. I've played with Katsuki.

Since Seraphim's going to post.

Nominations:

Chronopie
RaudhrGarm
Springlullaby

Depending on how the post is I might change again though.

[Cobblerfone]

My reason for "voting" Chrono was laying low, but apparently I forgot his LA.

Yos2 has a good point, but Flameaxe was the recruiter so...bias.

Still, I am too tired to think about switching my three "votes" right now.

[Cobblerfone]

@Cobble: Elaborate on this bias you speak of. S1 is over, this is a new game. What was done has been done and has been pushed aside.

I just meant that you've recruited him before so of course you'd see him as a good recruit, right?

I'm a bit disturbed with RaudhrGarm not replacing out or posting by now. Isn't that usually a scumtell if a player goes on V/LA for too long?

[Cobblerfone]

All I know is that I heard it was or it was discussed and it happened in my newbie game. It was unplanned, but I think that's part of it. The person doesn't want to switch out. It's situational I guess. I guess that's why I've generally lost faith in scumtells... They are situational.

[Cobblerfone]

@Flameaxe: Okay. Guess things really are circumstantial.

Spring is actually convincing enough, I'll vote Yos2 for now since he's the biggest wagon behind xvart anyway. I am so tired of D1.

VOTE: Yosarian2

@Admiral: List retracted for now.

[Cobblerfone]

I should've stuck to my first impression of that post.

UNVOTE: Yosarian2

VOTE: Chronopie

I am so fickle. And I forgot that Chronopie was the hypothetical lead. And his not replacing out when he's LA is somewhat suspicious. More so than RaudhrGarm because RaudhrGarm apparently "dropped off the site".

[Cobblerfone]

If it's scummy it might be in a scumslip kind of way. But it's not really all that logical. Most of us are assuming that there's only one lynchable scum per team. So how would Admiral know that it would be a mislynch when he doesn't know who the other scum is? How would Tanarin know it's.... gah. And how can it be reaching if again there's theoretically only one scum per team, wouldn't it be completely honest either way, Tajo? *sigh* AND even if there are multiple recruits on both sides... How would that work because there's STILL two teams, it would have to be honest.

Yeah, here's a new list, Admiral, top three choices:
Admiral (There's got to be some kind of ulterior motive in this switch of tallying. Whether it's to get the person YOU think is the most scummy lynched, or a theoretical scumbuddy into safety.)
Chronopie
Seraphim

(And yes, I changed the order intentionally. Thank you for keeping track of the lists, though. )

[Cobblerfone]

I'd recruit the doctor even if he weren't guranteed to be a "role-doctor".

Explain please.

Extended "flavor" for my real reason:

I don't think I'm allowed to say why.

This too.

Speed Mafia is over now, so I'll explain. Tajo claimed cop as vanilla. It ended up winning town the game though. No hard feelings anymore.

I was actually thinking of investigating that ? on the map. But if you're serious about all of us teamsters meeting at #33 I wouldn't mind that.
@xvart: Assuming you aren't lynched, are you interested?

[Cobblerfone]

Maybe, if you think there will be a benefit to it; I don't really see the benefit if we all were to get a neighbor QT since Andy could eventually get recruited and share any confidential information. If there is something else I'm missing let me know.

I thought about that and I have an idea of what we could do on N-2 to sort it out if it works the way we think it does. But leaking it in thread would be too much of a risk. If we all meet at one place tonight I could explain it to you guys and if we're told anyone else is there we'll just vote for them tomorrow for trying to be a mafia-rat.

[Cobblerfone]

I wonder if the entire town should split up in groups tonight based on occupation. Nah, better find out how the map works first. Still, just putting it out there in case I die.

[Cobblerfone]

Welp, meeting apparently didn't work.

I have no idea about this Yosarian situation. My curiousity makes me want Yosarian to claim... but I think I'll leave it to Seraphim.

@DGB: what was your plan?

[Cobblerfone]

What do you mean about meeting?

It means either no one else showed up at #33 or we just can't talk to each other.

[Cobblerfone]

I guess? It's not really the most important thing, even to me.

[Cobblerfone]

VOTE: ThAdmiral

Yesterday's reasons plus Battousai's reasons plus he seems to be trying too hard to be friendly:

Also I might as well say that I was blocked last night. Apparently I didn't go out on to the streets because of fear of violence. My character is such a coward!

[Cobblerfone]

1. How am I trying to be friendly?
2. Why is being friendly a scumtell anyway?

If it's a part of your general meta or something that comes with being here for years, that's fine, it still doesn't remove the other things that make you scummy. It is an addtional reason that hasn't been pointed out and that I've seen in other games. It wasn't just today either. It's not "being friendly" it's "trying too hard to be friendly." Do you know how many smilies are in your ISO? I count at least 5. Plus a woot and a "[We're at the ]1000! [post]" and lots of exclamation marks and fluff like Battousai said. It's not something that's scummy by itself, and I wouldn't base a vote on it alone. But it does make me more comfortable with my vote.

[Cobblerfone]

(I'm not "exactly" sure what my ability would have done).

Is it sad that this is the part that makes this sound believable to me?

(I don't believe Kinetic, but man, he is good.)

[Cobblerfone]

eh? DGB, you have to realize if you're town that self voting in a double cult game is singularly the worse thing you could do, doubly so if you actually are a town power role. (Its not good for the town at all) I can't see a self-vote as anything other than antitown.

Unless she's a supersaint. That's the only reasonable explanation I can come to.

[Cobblerfone]

Could someone link me when a meeting at 33 was discussed, seems I missed it.

It was teamsters-only, and I think I'm the only one that showed up.

Magister Ludi has pretty much outed himself as scum anyway.

How so?

[Cobblerfone]

297 might be worse than all three of the above. The claim itself from cobble is NOT what should be seen as scummy. The fact that despite claiming an integral part of the role, he refuses to disclose information that would support his claim (aka: flavor). I fail to see any reason why explaining the flavor behind your unrecruitable-ness would do anything to hint too much at your role.

Could it be because my unrecruitableness is unsure and is not a power unto itself? Doesn't help that apparently knowing the finer details of its workings are supposed to be vague. I even asked how wording in the visiting power affected it and I'm still not allowed to know. But I guess it's supposed to be fun to discover it through trial and error. I don't know.

Unrelated note: What was stopping any non-teamsters from joining the meeting? Wouldn't that have some sort of impact on the meeting if it happened?

It was to see if a little theory or two of mine were correct. Now both will remain unconfirmed. Unfortunately.

[Cobblerfone]

@Cobbler: What do you mean, your "unrecruitableness is unsure"?

It means I asked Mr. Flay if I was unrecruitable. He said he couldn't answer. (paraphrased of coursed) Therefore, I assumed I was unrecruitable and still do.

Fritzler is interesting.

[Cobblerfone]

Why? What's different now, xvart? Do you think I'm a N-0 or N-1 recruit?

[Cobblerfone]

You told everyone you were recruitable, which you do not know based on the information Flay gave you. There is obvious reasons why Flay would not answer that question either way under either assumption. You are N0 recruit. You deceived the town and provided information which you do not know.

Half-fakeclaiming isn't such a bad idea. Maybe you'll see if I get nightkilled.

[Cobblerfone]

So it did not say you were unrecruitable in your role PM?

No it didn't. Not outright, I simply guessed because of the wording. For the timeframe, let's see, I think I asked Mr. Flay at around the same time that RaudhrGarm soft-claimed to be vanilla.

[Cobblerfone]

"From what you understand"? Why would you make this kind of speculation when you don't even know you're unrecruitable yourself?

If I recall, I believed that instead of "choosing" between recruit or kill, at that point I assumed that they always recruited and if they targeted an unrecruitable it would become a kill. That or they could recruit or kill and the recruit would still become a kill. I was trying to goad them into killing me one way or the other because I'm not that powerful a role, rather bluntly and probably not in the smartest way but eh, after all these votes I'd say it's turned into a great way to gurantee I'm not recruited. And hopefully that last sentence will trick them into recruiting me.

To the best of my knowledge I'm unrecruitable though.

[Cobblerfone]

Guess ThAdmiral's not happening. Alright, I'll sheep DGB then.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Magister Ludi

[Cobblerfone]

Actually,

UNVOTE:

I think I have a real lead but it'll have to wait until they've responded some more.

[Cobblerfone]

I do not know for certain if I'm unrecruitable or not. Thus it's technically a fakeclaim.

[Cobblerfone]

The excuse you originally gave for fakeclaiming unrecruitable was that you thought other "teamsters" might also be unrecruitable. Now that we know that that was a lie, why did you claim unrecruitable, if not just to avoid being lynched?

I thought they might be unrecruitable too. Then around the time RaudhrGarm soft-claimed vanilla and xvart seemed suspicious I asked Mr. Flay about what happens if the recruiters try to recruit me.

[Cobblerfone]

Garm claims vanilla.
You PM flay about being unrecruitable or not.
He comes back with an answer that says you COULD be but he is not fully telling.
You go and claim you ARE unrecruitable.

I think that's right. More or less. You'll understand if I ever die or get in a position to fullclaim.

[Cobblerfone]

OK, so now that the time line is established, what good in your mind would not only outting yourself but the other teamsters get you?

I didn't claim until after I voted xvart to explain my way of thinking because I was certain we weren't the same roles any more. So how is that outting the other teamsters?

[Cobblerfone]

"Welp, I guess I'm unrecruitable, even though it dosn't say anything like that anywhere in my role PM, and I guess that all other teamseters are probably unrecrutable to. Also, teamseters are public roles, and I'm going to randomally announce my theory that all teamsters are unrecrutable in front of the whole town right now just to make sure the cult know who the unrecrutables are."

That's not how it went. I didn't claim unrecruitable until after I was certain that none of us Teamsters had the same role.

[Cobblerfone]

It may be best if he simply claims so this stupid town can start voting for actual scum.

I think I have six votes on me. If six others want me to claim I will. Still waiting for my suspect to post again.

O, also, there is another scum group besides cult in this game, if you guys haven't figured it out yet. Additionally, one of its members gave it away. I'd point it out (again) but instead I'll just remind you guys and you can find him and kill him, kthx.

You mean Ludi's obv-gambit?

[Cobblerfone]

If I say they might stop acting suspicious.

[Cobblerfone]

... And you are waiting for what?

To confirm my suspiciouns. It's only been a couple days since the phase started. I want to make sure they've truly started acting differently, since I think they're a N1 recruit.

Is the person on my list, at least, or will I have to fight against yet another towntunnel?

They're not on your list.

Heck if they are recruited my above reply might've tipped them off. Of course, if it's not them that actually might help us further if someone else suddenly starts trying to act like they did yesterday. I'll post who they are tomorrow if they haven't posted til then.

[Cobblerfone]

If I say they might stop acting suspicious.

This post is completely, and utterly, terrible.

I need to wait to make sure they've truly changed behavior.

Ludi- How is someone lying about their night action less likely to be scum than DGB? This just boggles my mind why you wouldn't come right out at Seraphim when you knew he was lying.

Good catch. Better than my "lead".

VOTE: Ludi

Yes I realize the supposed irony.

[Cobblerfone]

That's not how it went. I didn't claim unrecruitable until after I was certain that none of us Teamsters had the same role.

No. You claimed when you thought I was not unrecruitable.

Those both mean the same thing.

I'm only interested in lynching Cobble or DGB today. I believe both are lying cultbags.

If DGB is cult how is she lying if she literally said she's cult?

[Cobblerfone]

This is total bologna. How does the wording suggest that you might be unrecruitable without explicitly saying it?

This part came from my more flavor part of the role that (paraphrasing of course) said I disliked violence. Thus when combined with my role, I assumed I wouldn't join either mafia cult.

[Cobblerfone]

No. What you said was that you claimed after you were certain that Raudr and I (all teamsters) were not unrecruitable. When did you determine that Raudr was unrecruitable?

Raudhr softclaimed vanilla.

I don't see xvart being recruited as he's a teamster. Wouldn't you rather try to get a PR as soon as possible rather than a VT?

[Cobblerfone]

This is a terrible twisting of words. What difference does it make?

I was just being a smart-alec.

To whoever asked, I am trying to get as little information as possible from Seraphim and piece together my own role with what flay is telling me (note, he is being insanely cryptic) because its rather complex if Seraphim is in fact lying and if he is and I claim I want it to be a for sure scum lynch.

What makes you think Seraphim is lying? What is it in his claim that is inconsistent with what you know? Keep in mind that you might want to take the possibility of gambits into consideration. If your information doesn't prove he's lying even after you think it through, then there is no need to explain.

[Cobblerfone]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. My suspect. It's Lady Lambadelta. She was extremely verbose on day one, and now it's almost like she's left the game. Her latest post is just a vote for me with nothing else with no explanation even though she thought I was town on day one.

[Cobblerfone]

Ya know, I didn't want to take pressure off but he's gotten a few votes.

UNVOTE:

I might put my vote back on Ludi depending on his response. Perhaps the threat of a revote instead of a solid vote will actually add more pressure? *shrug*

[Cobblerfone]

I dunno, on the one hand Ludi doesn't really make sense, on the other hand there might be hidden factors, though they are limited as to what they probably are in this case. I have sympathy for Ludi though it is sort of weird. Heck even Seraphim's explanation of not knowing he was roleblocked or not is sort of weird. IDK anymore. I want to wait for both of them to respond.

[Cobblerfone]

Am I not allowed to wait for people to respond to the cases against them before continuing my vote? Seriously, I thought about unvoting Ludi earlier, but I didn't want to take pressure off, and now there's another person in my place.

[Cobblerfone]

Thank you for refreshing that for me. Although...

Also, a straight-out Serephem fake claim doesn't make that much sense here to me. If it's a fake claim, how did he know I targeted someone last night? It doesn't seem likely to me that that was just a blind guess.

On the other hand, a Ludi fakeclaim doesn't make that much sense either. Why try to get Seraphim lynched? I mean, maybe if Ludi was in danger at that point it might make sense. I'll check.

because its rather complex if Seraphim is in fact lying and if he is and I claim I want it to be a for sure scum lynch.

If it's complex then maybe you can explain what makes you think Seraphim is lying.

[Cobblerfone]

If it's complex then maybe you can explain what makes you think Seraphim is lying.

What is wrong with me today? That sentence is horrible.

[Cobblerfone]

I looked at Ludi's ISO. And I do see that Ludi actually

did

lead up to it. Making me even more comfortable with my unvote.

Ludi- How is someone lying about their night action less likely to be scum than DGB? This just boggles my mind why you wouldn't come right out at Seraphim when you knew he was lying.

If you reread the latest posts in his ISO he's actually leading up to make sure that Seraphim is absolutely claiming that he did something.

VOTE: LadyLambdadelta

[Cobblerfone]

@Cobbler: Why even unvote? There is no threat of Ludi being lynched before you get back. Also why the vote on LL?

I was beginning to be lukewarm about Ludi, and LL was because she's gone AWOL.

HOLY HELL
THOSE DGB/CR INTERACTIONS ARE TERRIBAD.
WE HAVE CULT HERE FOLKS.

VOTE: DGB

Holy cow, can you be anymore obvious?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Katsuki

[Cobblerfone]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Porochaz

?

That is the one, right? If Poro or whoever isn't cult then lynch Hero tomorrow. Unless he admits to gambitting before the lynch. I believe that accounts for all but a few scenarios.

[Cobblerfone]

LLD didn't even post between these two posts. What made you change your mind and decide to announce your suspicions?

I'll post who they are tomorrow if they haven't posted til then.

[Cobblerfone]

He's claimed he's got a guilty, and he's voting you. Though I'd still like confirmation from Hero.

[Cobblerfone]

Do people not pay attention to Cobbler for some reason?

In the last two pages, he's changed his vote a insanely high amount of times, each time with less reasoning that the last.

The Katsuki vote was terribad. I don't even get what his reasoning for it was.

Cobbler needs rope, or a bullet between the eyes tonight.

Have you played with scum!Katsuki? 'cause she was scum in my most recent completed game. Add in her somewhat changed style from D1 and I'm convinced. Now, where have you been, hmm?

[Cobblerfone]

Yeah, LLD has played with Katsuki as scum. From what I remember, Kats was significantly more active in that game. What about her style has changed?

HOLY HELL
THOSE DGB/CR INTERACTIONS ARE TERRIBAD.
WE HAVE CULT HERE FOLKS.

VOTE: DGB

She goes from being somewhat indifferent D1, going so far as to "lurk until my eventual mislynch", to posting in all caps using this awful case as an excuse to vote DGB.

[Cobblerfone]

I guarantee I have played with scum!Katsuki and Town!Katsuki more than you have.

Alright then.

[Cobblerfone]

Katsuki, what makes you so sure that DGB is culted? And by whom?

[Cobblerfone]

No idea by whom, but her "WOE IS ME, VOTE ME I AM CULT" reaction with kinetic's supposed results seem extremely fake to me.

ABR was on the sidelines saying nothing, so not much to read into that.

This is better. Though, not to get into semantics (or whatever part of language it is) it seems odd that you said "THOSE INTERACTIONS"which seems to imply that you thought it was staged between Kinetic and DGB instead of "THAT RESPONSE".

[Cobblerfone]

o.o This post has me believing Katsuki has not been recruited yet.

Welp, with TWO players with more experience with Kat disagreeing, I concede.

[Cobblerfone]

I'm also waiting for Ludi to respond.

@Fritzler: You have my permission to start voting. If I have a result that should influence the lynch - either a guilty or an innocent - then I will claim it if and when that's necessary.

I was going to say that that probably means that you found an innocent. But then I realized that if you gave the guilty away immediately we all wouldn't be able to see if anyone's changed.

[Cobblerfone]

If I'm wrong, I'll tell you all of my recruits.

How dumb do you think we are?

Still it seems sincere. Wait. Wait. If DGB is scum and not cult we don't want her dead. We want the cults dead first.

Spring being obsessed with finding Kinetic's recruits makes her sound like an Albert recruit. Was Albert's "She's Kinetic's recruit," WIFOM to keep us from thinking he recruited her since the quotes in question seem to lead her to being Albert's? Anyway, if there really is a third anti-faction it shouldn't matter which cult we wipe out first.

VOTE: Springlullaby

[Cobblerfone]

I would think it would be less of a joke and more of a gambit to see if there really was one. And now Kinetic is using this idea to get us paranoid and it backfired (in my case) or is being ignored (most others).

[Cobblerfone]

D: But I've gave my reason when I called her town before.

No you didn't. You just said you thought her post made you think she wasn't recruited. And that was yesterday anyway.

[Cobblerfone]

Also, if further explanation as to why I have been pestering Kinetic and sucking up to ABR is needed, I can provide if you can't make it out. But right now, I don't think it's necessary.

Is it because you're one of their recruits?

[Cobblerfone]

@Cobbler, I expect an answer from you too.

What else could you've been hinting at?

Anyone else notice the drastic change in LLD's play since day one?

Yes. On Day Two actually.

Anyway, Katsuki is being weird...

GEE. What changed from yesterday?!

[Cobblerfone]

@DGB: But why would they try to recruit you when you asked for anti-recruitment protection?

@LadyLambdadelta:

Anyway, Katsuki is being weird...

GEE. What changed from yesterday?!

Well, considering that it's almost 90% certain that someone tried to cult recruit Andrius N1 and FAILED, it's not likely.

Refresh my memory. When was this brought up? How do you know someone tried to recruit Andrius?

[Cobblerfone]

But we wouldn't know ahead of time, though. The dead townies don't talk.

But it wouldn't matter if we knew ahead of time if we just find out once someone attempts to recruit us. Why are you dwelling on these unrealistic scenarios?

Is this the DGB from Speed Mafia?

I'm torn. Spring's off the hook for now:
UNVOTE:

Now, do I vote, LLD, Kats, or DGB?
@Lambda: Please answer my question. What makes you think Katsuki is scum today that wasn't here yesterday?

[Cobblerfone]

Are you even reading??????????????????

The question is to LadyLambda, who didn't see Katsuki as scum yesterday. IIRC.

PREDIT & ISO-check:

The Katsuki vote was terribad. I don't even get what his reasoning for it was.

So, I didn't recall

quite

correctly. It's still worth noting.

Yeah, I've seen this mechanic years ago, but it's not happening here if LLD is right that Andrius was cult-recruit-failed Night 1... Andrius died Night 2.

So nvm.

I'm guessing she's alluding to the whole "teamster meet-up" where I was the only one that apparently showed. Since she thinks I'm scum. Still, I asked her for clarity.

ANYWAY since the two people that apparently had a town read on Katsuki to contradict my scumsense on Kats now agree that Kats is suspicious:

VOTE: Katsuki

[Cobblerfone]

1. Why do you think I am a recruit?
2. And if I were a recruit, whose do you think I would be, and why?

1. Because you were focusing on lynching a particular cult instead of just recruits.
2. This doesn't really matter. There's WIFOM both ways since you were focusing on Kinetic, and Albert claimed to have got a guilty read on you.

[Cobblerfone]

@Cobble: Essentially the same question Ludi asks in 2094. Why does the fact that you have town reads that disagree with you dictate your own opinion?

No, no, you see my vote on Katsuki yesterday was due to Kat's post where he votes for DGB. It seemed odd and reminded me of Speed Mafia. However Lambda and Bunnylover didn't see it as scummy and they've played with Kats more than me (And assuming there's one recruit per cult per night it's was impossible for all three of them to be in the same cult). So I withdrew my vote yesterday.

[Cobblerfone]

I'm also still highly suspicious of DGB, and each post is not alieviating that, especially since you've again called for cult-recruitment protection despite semi-soft claiming you were unrecruitable.

I don't like the call for protection at this point in the game either, but seriously, DGB softclaimed? It was obvious it wasn't actual claiming, soft or normal.

[Cobblerfone]

1) Cobbler and tajo have been ignoring my questions.

I answered them in post #2129

I think Kat should claim actions if he thinks it's useful information.

[Cobblerfone]

Cobblerfone, are you town?

Yes.

[Cobblerfone]

@LL: Why?

Yeah, she wanted ABR recruits before, but she made a good point. I want to hear this.

UNVOTE: Katsuki

[Cobblerfone]

So hey, last time when I replaced in and caught up on the staggering 90 pages of Succession 1, I dumped a whole bunch of opinions and useful information.
Not this time.

Why Tajo, and why have you decided to be more minimalistic this time?

[Cobblerfone]

Cobblerfone: Because I'm lazy, I didn't think about it until I was already 20~ pages in, and because the machinations of my mind are an enigma.
Tajo because he's cult.

What makes you think he's cult?

Dislike that we killed ABR off . We needed him to counter act Kinetic, but oh well.

Think of it this way, now Kinetic recruits can't honestly culthunt.

[Cobblerfone]

@Batt: Also, Hero can only be scum if Ludi is also scum.

@Darox: You didn't answer my question.

[Cobblerfone]

Bv- Where does it say the killer robbed the bank? Or do you blindly believe what anyone says? According to the rules, whoever posts the 2500 posts gets to be unrecruitable the following night.

The Day Start post says there was a bank robbery.

[Cobblerfone]

Batt can't be the vig. He knew it was unlikely that I was culted (I think it was him). There was still another cult at the time, how could he take that risk as lying converted-vig? You following me? I don't know what he is, but there isn't any evidence that Batt was there anyway. That being said, I think ooba is town for the way he's reacted.

[Cobblerfone]

So do we actually have a guilty on bvoigt or is this just reaction testing?

If only my ability hadn't failed on DGB N1.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the majority of points against me relate to my predecessor being crazy. Which kinda doesn't make sense to recruit, but whatever. Knowing what I know, he wasn't 100% crazy, just whenever he opened his mouth it all came spilling out. Don't ask me to explain his votes because I'm just baffled.

Still digging tajo as cult.

So scummy it's not even funny. If Hero confirms the guilty I'm all in. Otherwise, I'm voting Darox.

[Cobblerfone]

VOTE: Darox

[Cobblerfone]

I have yet to have anyone explain to me how my play style CHANGED from D1 to D2.

You went from being talkative to posting votes by themselves on early D2.

[Cobblerfone]

Don't forget your bout with Porochaz.

[Cobblerfone]

Your point about him being an Albert recruit?

[Cobblerfone]

What was your point about my Porochaz vote/attack?

That it was more than just you catching up that had you posting a lot more on D1.

[Cobblerfone]

Cobble, can you summarize in one sentence why you think LL is scum? I'm not seeing it over much more suspected bvoigt and friends.

I'm not as sure as I was D2. I was merely explaining how her style seemed to change because she kind of asked for it here:

I have yet to have anyone explain to me how my play style CHANGED from D1 to D2.

[Cobblerfone]

Vote: DGB

I'm with ooba on this one. Her response is no good either.

[Cobblerfone]

I'm so glad I recruited DGB. She's doing so well right now.

That was day RL days into the game.

And that post was supposed to get you lynched how? As for me, I'm ignoring the WIFOM here and using the pure unWIFOMed reasoning of ooba's case. Explain why you didn't fight the lists Day 1 if it was going to ruin your plan.

[Cobblerfone]

Admiral's proposition.

Your list.

[Cobblerfone]

Ugh. DGB isn't as obviously cult as Darox and it doesn't seem that she's getting lynched.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Darox

[Cobblerfone]

You're not any closer to a lynch since I voted you, Darox is still scummy, and Marathon has made me less patient.

[Cobblerfone]

I'm anticipating Darox's post.

I find this train of thought ridiculous since you voted DGB less than 24 hours previously.

I waited 24 hours because this game feels slow again. But then, I've been in marathon. If you really think I'm mafia, go ahead. Since the cult will have to die anyway and then the town will win. To be honest I think masons/neighbors with a shared nightkill are more probable than there being a mafia at this point since Kinetic is proven to be a liar. And it would be awesome. Though it's probably just a vig and an even-night vig.

[Cobblerfone]

I dont see how Heroscum means ML is scum??

Herodotus and Ludi claimed that they are informed if the other is converted.

[Cobblerfone]

Do you know if you stopped any kills on N1 or N3?

[Cobblerfone]

Yes. ML is confirming far too many players to be scum. Yos has a far higher chance to be scum, Hero has a higher chance to be scum.

What part of "Hero can't be scum unless Ludi is" don't you understand?

Scum night action proof, good enough for me since you are scum anyways.

He's claiming bulletproof/violence-proof. And possibly only if the killer is scum/cult/evil.

[Cobblerfone]

What part of "Hero is far more likely to be a cult recruit because he has a dangerous claimed PR?" don't you understand?
Very ballsy claim of cult ML and non-cult Hero to do that.

And very bad of non-cult ML and cult Hero. But pretty sly if they're both cult. So how is Hero more likely to be cult than Ludi if in order for Hero to be cult Ludi must also be cult? Keep in mind that if it is just one way Ludi could've been culted after the claim. (I don't think either are culted, for the record.)

So he claims not to be able to be culted or be killed by mafia.

If he claimed unrecruitable I would've unvoted him and requested an investigation.

[Cobblerfone]

Unless your assuming that Darox is the night zero recruit, every player started out with a town role.

You know this to be certain?

[Cobblerfone]

Darox is hammered, right?

I don't think so. I think ConSpiracy was gambitting. Darox is at L-1 unless I missed a vote. You want to hammer?

[Cobblerfone]

@Mod:I'm gonna be V/LA part or all of tomorrow and Saturday. I'm not exactly sure at what time but I'll back on Sunday.

[Cobblerfone]

And what is the best way to answer a gambit if it's not on you...

Hey, somebody else asked and wanted to hammer.

[Cobblerfone]

@Hero: I'd also like you to claim all of your results so far since it'll at least clear people up to a certain day. And if a person said something suspicious before you investigated them we know it would be fruitless. This is a long game now and any help in that regard would be good. It could also help in trying to find any changes in behavior from after that point. It doesn't need to be right now, but some time during the day phase would be awesome.

Eh,

VOTE: Ladylambda

[Cobblerfone]

But Hero was protected, and therefore, would soak up a recruitment.

He was protected from kills. Of course, chances are the cult-doc targeted him too but Darox didn't cult-protect him.

@Ludi: I'm not an "Unrecruitable Townie".

[Cobblerfone]

I claimed unrecruitable (now I'm not entirely sure), but not unrecruitable townie. Spring ended up being an unrecruitable townie though.

[Cobblerfone]

Who do you want to go next? I'm willing.

[Cobblerfone]

@Hero: I'd also like you to claim all of your results so far since it'll at least clear people up to a certain day. And if a person said something suspicious before you investigated them we know it would be fruitless. This is a long game now and any help in that regard would be good. It could also help in trying to find any changes in behavior from after that point. It doesn't need to be right now, but some time during the day phase would be awesome.

If not right now what point is there to be waiting based on your reasoning? Why wait if you really want that information for the reason you stated?

If he got a guilty last night it could be best to wait so we can get proper reactions.

[Cobblerfone]

Also, softclaim/will not explain further: cobbler's chance at being a recruit is low.

How did you get this information?

[Cobblerfone]

And what was it? Or are you waiting until the other vig claims?

[Cobblerfone]

I think I found the thing I said.

[Cobblerfone]

For the record, because it's potentially lylo, I'm going to need to claim today.

[Cobblerfone]

I'm an Army Veteran with experience in Korea. If some one tries to murder or confine me they'll regret it. (paraphrased).

I asked the mod if doctor protects or cult-recruiting was covered by confine and he said he couldn't say.

[Cobblerfone]

xvart goes next.

[Cobblerfone]

Also, lol at LL's claim. What's the flavor?

[Cobblerfone]

What's the wiki role flavor name? The name that's in paranthesis? Who were your targets?

bvoigt, can you verify the name once she gives it?

[Cobblerfone]

Actually Lambda, you can just name the targets. Once we figure out which of the two of you are more suspicious we can them to name the parathesis name.

[Cobblerfone]

Why did you target me?

[Cobblerfone]

UNVOTE:

For now. Now to figure out which of you is lying or if you're both really cult-docs. (Which, isn't too surprising in a game with two cults I suppose.)

[Cobblerfone]

So that's what that was about. Were you actually notified that somebody tried to recruit him though? If so then that means one less recruit to worry about.

[Cobblerfone]

I asked the mod why he named me Army Vet instead of bomb. The answer, though just a little bit cryptic, makes me a bit weary of Lady again. Did anybody protect Lady last night?

[Cobblerfone]

My flavor SPECIFICALLY says that everyone COMES TO ME every night. I can only use my power when I am at my bar. It's non-intrusive.

Wait, so you like say "stay at homebase, target x?". The flavor makes me think I wouldn't have killed you, but the traditional role... Though if my wording was vague on purpose, I'll have to believe you for now. Especially since claiming to target a person right after they claim army veteran would be pretty dumb I suppose. :/

I've decided bvoigt is more suspicious. bvoigt can you name the parenthesis name? (Though I guess it's hardly that hard to guess.)

[Cobblerfone]

@Conspiracy: Time zones.

@xvart: Everyone that's claimed today is probably going to want you to claim, Hero and others are probably going to want you to not claim. So, there's not really a point in asking the question.

[Cobblerfone]

And I intentionally left this out of my claim last time, but yes, I am unrecruitable. The flavor name is Incorruptible.

Okay, since you provided the unrecruitable flavor name LL can verify it and provide the cult-doctor flavor name and you can verify that. Though I think you're both town. Alright. This is awesome. I'm coming up with a plan for when mass-claim is over.

[Cobblerfone]

Actually, me asking you guys to say what the role name is might be covered by "don't quote your role PM". So, um. yeah.

[Cobblerfone]

Flameaxe, why aren't you claiming?

[Cobblerfone]

Why did you say you were in favor of massclaim if you weren't going to claim?

[Cobblerfone]

Why? Only two others beside yourself haven't claimed? Is there a different reason?

[Cobblerfone]

Because Flameaxe was supportive of a massclaim.

[Cobblerfone]

If you're cult and somehow forgot you were supportive of massclaiming.

[Cobblerfone]

Cult might have to make up a position, then when more people are against that position you fold to them.

[Cobblerfone]

On another note, I have been processing Cobbler's claim and I don't see that role fitting into a cult game. He says something bad will happen to people who try and kill him or confine him (whatever that means). This role is inherently anti town since he can't kill a recruiter that tries to recruit him (recruiters are treestumps) so odds are the only retribution action he will take is against town. Basically, everything Cobbler has claimed has been to keep people from targeting him, actioning against him, or similar.

At first I thought my role meant that after N0 the recruiters would have to delegate. Now, I think it's a defense against recruited power roles. That or a joke since all it says is something like "they'll regret it". And doesn't

explicitly

say that I'll kill them.

Cobbler your vote is grasping for major straws. Even if he did go from supporting massclaim to not supporting massclaim, I can not see the benefit from a cult member doing that. Its more beneficial for cult to want to mass claim so they can get who role is who, isn't it? So how does all of this = Flamexe culted.

I'm not voting for anyone currently. Anyway, chainsaw defense is duly noted.

Why isn't bvoigt lynched yet?

Because he's a claimed unrecruitable cult-doc that gave the proper "unrecruitable flavor" and it is very easy to check this claim.

[Cobblerfone]

I have a very simple plan. The last people just need to claim. Yos, you too. After all, it involves bringing you out of the jail.

[Cobblerfone]

Actually, I guess the claim doesn't need to be finished. It would be nice though.

Anyway, so plan: (optional) Ludi jails a claimed VT/zdenek, Hero investigates Yos, Tajo targets Hero (He says he doens't need cult-doc), Ooba targets Hero to make sure it happens (in case the cult has a roleblocker).

After that, if Yos is a PR bvoigt/lady cult-docs him, if he is a VT Ludi continues to jail him. Vigs target VTs/Zdenek (whose claim is the least valuable), then a cult-doc and Hero can target Tajo. If Tajo is town the cult-doc continues to target him. Then we do the same thing with Batt. (optional: We do the same thing with me, while Tajo protects Hero) Then we just continue in this fashion.

I suggest we lynch a claimed VT/Zdenek/unclaimed player today, and that the second vig claims. (Not that it isn't obvious who it is.)

VOTE: Zdenek

Because Bunny seems sincere and xvart seems valuable.

[Cobblerfone]

Cobblerfone: I'm not really sure I understand this plan. If you are planning on directing the claimed cult docs, the jailkeeper, and the vigs, then won't the cult know who they can recruit with complete safety? What am I missing here?

It's just the basic plan. The base of it is to get as many confirmed innocents as possible, the exact order is arbitrary. Actually, now that I think about it, It's probably best for Tajo/Zdenek to protect the cult-docs just in case. Eh,

UNVOTE: Zdnenek

[Cobblerfone]

Wait, why wouldn't it make sense for the cult-docs to protect the confirmed innocents once they've been cleared by Hero?

[Cobblerfone]

Better to

know

that someone isn't recruited than to protect someone that might

already

be recruited and forcing the entire process to start over again.

[Cobblerfone]

Okay, cult-docs can target Vigs instead (as long as they're recruitable), I don't care. Probably makes more sense anyway.

[Cobblerfone]

Hero can investigate them. Gah. It's so simple: Investigate on one night cult doc the rest like this:

Lady -> NS. Hero -> Batt.
If Batt = town: Bvoigt -> Batt. Hero -> NS. And Lady -> SomeOtherRandomGuy.

[Cobblerfone]

Also, your plan seems to be assuming that everyone who's claimed is both telling the truth and is still town, which is, uh, iffy at best.

It only relies on the cult-docs (bvoigt has been confirmed by Lady.), the corrupt cops (solid townread on Ludi + Hero confirmed town by him) and the vigs (NS is definitely town I think. Batt I'm less sure which is why he can be Hero's first target in the plan.) to all be town. If anything goes funny (like no protection on a cult-doc or hero where there's supposed to be) then we lynch the person that failed. It only doesn't work if the cult has a roleblocker.

Why would scum have fake-claims in games?

Is there a reason they'd have it in a cult-game? ConSpiracy is super-tunneling town.

xvart's lynch is reasonable if only because there's not really that many people to choose from in my plan.

Vote: xvart

[Cobblerfone]

Okay. What would you have done if you were the second wagon last day with about 3 players that actively suspected you?
Right, fake-claim the most anti-cult power ever.
I don't know if you've heard about WoW-cult mafia, but the GF got as fake-claim a cult doc...

The flavor isn't about cultdoc. It's about unrecruitable.

Well, one big problem with your plan, Cobbler, is that if you tell the jailkeeper and the cult docs to not protect me, and then tell the cop to investigate me, there is nothing stopping the cult from recruiting me tonight, after the cop gets his innocent. That leaves me as a "confirmed innocent" who is actually cult.

I figured investigation goes after recruitment.
@Hero: Do you know if investigation happens after recruitment?

[Cobblerfone]

Mmm. Cobbeler's plan of directing the cult docs and the vig and the doctor and the jailkeeper and the watcher would result in a town loss almost 100% of the time, I think. We would get a few temporary confimred innocents, but be guaranteeing that the cult recruit one person every night, period, and they could still just kill off the key power roles.

A cult being able to recruit and kill in the same night? You tired? Help me come up with a better plan then. Help me fix it.

[Cobblerfone]

No, not in the same night. I'm saying that if your plan would actually somehow work, which it wouldn't, the cult could just kill the key power roles instead. We've got one claimed kill-doctor (and possibly mr. Z? i don't know what he's claiming, really) and one jailkeeper, and you want to direct both of them.

Assuming the probably scenario where the cult can kill without a recruited vig, it is desirable for the cult to kill instead of recruiting. In my plan they'd almost certainly have to start at the bottom: Tajo and zdenek. And both of them have been suspected so if they're killed as town, it also fortunately clears them. We could split the difference and have Tajo and zdenek decide randomly/arbitrarily who they protect among bvoigt/lady/hero/Batt. Actually, referencing an earlier post, assuming NS is a recruitable even-night vig, the jailer could target him and a cult doc target you instead, assuming hero targets you or Batt.

[Cobblerfone]

I'd say that if xvart is cult, then of the people I'm not sure are town, zdenek is his partner. If xvart isn't, then Flameaxe and bunny would be my next guess. Tajo could be cult, but kill doc can be useful for at least one night.

What's scummy is it relies on all those power roles you listed being town already (which is nearly half the town), not to mention directing all of our power roles to doing something else. The classic "look at my left hand while I steal your wallet with my right hand" sort of scam.

I've noticed a few holes in my plan since my last post. But do you seriously believe that any of bvoigt, lady, Ludi, Hero, and NS are cult? Batt, I'm less sure of, but I can't really see any plausible partners, and he's perhaps one of the more useful roles for town.

Zdenek: Has been fairly inactive all game. Claimed "pharmacist", with a "50% chance of succeeding at protecting someone". Hasn't clarified what that means, but it doesn't really make any sense either. Why would Flay put in one single role with percentage chance of success into a game like this with no other roles like that? That would be a REALLY odd decision. I think he's probably lying cult as well.

His claim did strike me as odd, but Darox did imply there was some sort of percentage thing going on with his role.

[Cobblerfone]

Look, I'm an Army Veteran. The details of my role are vague. I don't even know if I die or not when attacked.

I think Cobbler's lynch claimed VTs/me plan is stupid because there is probably little reason for anyone to claim VT/a less useful role.

I'm happy with bvoigt's claim.
Unvote

I need to read a bit before voting, but because of PoE and certain claims, I don't plan on voting outside of

Bunny Lover, Factory Worker [

VT

]
Flameaxe, Dancer/Entertainer [

unclaimed

]
Pops "ooba" Seaton, Junkie [

Watcher

]
Anahito Xvart, Teamster [

VT

]

Uh-huh. Not so stupid now, eh?

[Cobblerfone]

I don't find Bunnylover scummy, at the time I just couldn't find any good reason to exclude her from consideration as cult.
You'll have to wait for me to pass judgement on Xvart.

This is more or less my exact thought process. The power roles that seem the most suspect to me though, are you, [Flameaxe], and Tajo. However Amrun has rubbed me as town. Hmm.. if we lynch Flameaxe, then if he's cult it'll pretty much clear you and xvart from today to before. Though, if xvart is cult, then Flameaxe will be cleared, and he's softclaimed to be a PR. I guess I'll stick with xvart then.

@Hero: Do you still not require cult-protection? Do you have any results? I feel we're all at a stalemate here.

[Cobblerfone]

Actually, Zdenek tried to make a case against him a few game days ago.

@Zdenek:

Is there a reason you didn't just default back to Flameaxe after you unvoted bvoigt? Wait. Why did you unvote bvoigt?

Cobber, why am I town?

Just the way you've been posting, the fact that you matched his protective claims was good. Though, it's possible you were pretending you didn't look them up.

and he's softclaimed to be a PR

Assuming you're referring to me....what are you on about?[/quote]

Role-wise you would be more useful as long as you're town. Actually, I think I might switch to you or zdnenek now.

[Cobblerfone]

bvoigt's flavor was corroborated by LLD, so he's very likely telling the truth about being unrecruitable. Of course there is a chance they are scum together, but doubt that's the case.

ah. It was the choice of words that was weird, you said you were "happy with his claim", and since his claim was what you actually said made you vote for him I wanted to ask you to try to catch you in a lie. I actually think zdenek's recent responses sound honest. In which case, Flameaxe may be the better vote. I'll just have to reread some stuff tomorrow.

UNVOTE

of safety!

[Cobblerfone]

Paul Cobblerfone, Teamster 9. Lloyd-Adams Transfer and Storage

Incorrect.

Ooba's post makes me think he's still town though the location asking is off-putting. I still haven't reread yet.

[Cobblerfone]

Oh yeah, as for Ludi's question, as far as I can tell "?" is just an abandoned, run-down building.

[Cobblerfone]

Okay, here's the thing, I'm having trouble coming up with partner for xvart now. So, I'm going to go with Flameaxe. Who going by the official vote counts, hasn't received a single vote except from zdenek before today and would be a good cult-choice on that alone. Also, Amrun's starting to make me reconsider my townread on her. I hear she likes to distance her buddies and so she might make a good buddy with xvart, but then this is a cult game, so I'm going to go and:

VOTE: Flameaxe

[Cobblerfone]

It's just in case, I ...

Oh, right, I have no chance of being nightkilled now. Anyway, [redacted] (I'm not even sure what one) has nothing to do with why you're not seeming townish to me anymore either way. It's just that if you weren't a doc, I'd be leaning to vote you.

[Cobblerfone]

@Amrun: Perhaps I was mistaken then.

I don't care anymore. Short of a Cop-result one of xvart, zdenek, and Flameaxe is definitely getting lynched and that's making me happy.

PREDIT: Woah, L-1 is happening. Out of the two I probably prefer xvart.

VOTE: xvart

Watch zdenek flip cult.

[Cobblerfone]

I don't like that post either. UGH.

All, well, it's all a coin-flip to me. If this then that, if that then this. I believe we at least have a couple more days. killdocs target cultdocs yes?

UNVOTE:

Now that you are claimed I would like to hear more detail about the flavor that led you to believe you were unrecruitable.

The "flavor" I was refering to was shooting people that enter my home, or booby-trapping them, I'm not sure which I canonically do. Combine that with the part that's probably in every town PM about how I didn't like the bombing and you get me thinking I'm unrecruitable. I mean there are very few possibilities for the purpose of my role. I think my purpose is to kill recruited power roles and/or the cultists Kinetic delegates to cult players (assuming the recruiting ability is factional). When I got my response from the mod that said it was supposed to be vague, I decided I'd rather not take the chance and make it sound like the cults would have to kill me, so that I could kill at least one, guranteed, instead of hoping I'd kill them without also being recruited. Which would suck.

[Cobblerfone]

I'm sure it's one group or the other. That's why I'm flip-flopping. I think Flameaxe is the optimal lynch out of the three of him, xvart, and zdenek. but it's no big loss if one of the other two is lynched instead. Anyway, are all plans sorted out?

Ooba, Amrun, Ludi, are you ready if zed is lynched?

[Cobblerfone]

Oh yeah, Yos, do you have an ability that you'd like to use tonight? A cultdoc could target you instead of Ludi. Right guys?

@Hero: Are you sure you don't have any results for today?

Once these last two things are sorted, I'll hammer if nothing else has changed.

[Cobblerfone]

Actually, I might not be opposed to xvart, ConSpiracy, Bunnylover, Flameaxe, Battousai(?), Nobody Special(?), and myself to reveal our homebases. But everyone would have to agree to it before it starts.

[Cobblerfone]

Lady?

Why didn't you post?

And you don't think that the cult docs claiming their targets in advance is a bad idea? Or, even worse, the cult docs being directed to protect a certain person?

I know this was directed at Ooba, but I don't think it's terrible as long as that person can be confirmed town by Hero in the same night simply because I don't like doubt.

[Cobblerfone]

My top three:

Flameaxe, ConSpiracy, xvart? (I need to reread his interactions.)

[Cobblerfone]

Saw a post that indicates xvart and Flameaxe weren't on the same team yesterday. The one where he votes him over quite a legitimate reason.

So now that my memory's refreshed I'm definitely set on Flameaxe.