The Children of Húrin Mafia (GREAT REVIVAL)

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Gut

Purely a gut vote.

[PeregrineV]

I beleive crap like that, since it's a free-form game where anything is possible.

@Gandalf- If you don't know "how to win", why would you think you are town?

And just so I get it, you breadcrumbed your role as "I don't know what I'm doing" and you feel you share a role with Andrius because why again? Quotes would help me "get it".

I think scum was hoping for a weirdo Gandalf lynch, and that scum was on his wagon.

Unvote.
Vote: Kayne

[PeregrineV]

Pere: Why Kanye?

Because when jumping on a third party wagon, I thought this was the worst reason.

meh, the last few times I have seen a claimed third party lynch get run up, the instigators of the lynch were scum.

find not town, lynch not town. you can say i was trying to do it for town cred later on but its a bit early for that.

Others called Gandalf a liar or VI, etc. But Kayne doesn't dispute the role, but wants to lynch "non-town". I've found here that scum loves to lynch other "non-town" almost more than they like to lynch town.

[PeregrineV]

Maybe it's not kanye, actually.

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

I didn't like this useless random vote:

Vote: Gut

Purely a gut vote.

MoI, a random vote is that. Random. Peregrine did not randomly vote Gut, if he did, he wouldn't have made that horrible pun.

--

Why not an actual random vote?

How is Pere’s vote on Gut based on a user-name joke not a random vote? What is an actual random vote to you?

MoI gets it. It's a pun. Gut vote. his name is Gut.
Even willow-o-wisp admits its a pun.

Why are Willow and Vitamin trying to turn a funny RVS vote into something serious? I will ask:

@Vitamin- Why do you think my RVS vote was serious. In your opinion, did anyone else have a useless random vote? Or was thiers more useful than mine? By what order of magnitude? Where they funny?

@Willow- So my vote was bad because the pun was bad? Or do you think my random vote was not random because the pun was bad? Please explain the difference.

Pedit- Esp has it right in post 285. Town wants to lynch 3rd party for different reasons than scum want to lynch 3rd party.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, I fossed you at that stage because you came in and random voted, when things had actually happened. So, why did you do that?

My first vote always=random vote unless something earth shattering occurs. Or I replace in.

And post 27 in a large game is definitely RVS territory to me.

[PeregrineV]

Can people please explain WHY they don't believe me before they vote for me?

Which post(s) of yours are you asking why we don't believe? The first seven where you told a bunch of lies to breadcrumb a secret message to another player that may or may not have existed, or the ones where said player showed up, read through all the crap, found the crumbs, recreated a loaf of bread from them, and claimed a role that matches your claim, at which point you believed him, and came out with "the truth" about you our role and the previous lies?

[PeregrineV]

@sun and Moon- the hydra with one post? C'mon now.

@Kayne- do you undersatnd the difference based on Esp's 285?

Ugh i was hoping to save that debate. To put it simply kanye has every right to want a lynch on Gandalf, however he is using the complete wrong reasons. It is rather common for there to be non malicious third parties that can co-exhist with the town.

I'm neither here nor there on kanye.

[PeregrineV]

So Gandalf/Andrius is the same (or something), but no votes for Andrius?

Unvote.
Vote: Andrius

Fixed.

[PeregrineV]

So Gandalf/Andrius is the same (or something), but no votes for Andrius?

Unvote.
Vote: Andrius

Fixed.

This is a joke post right?

No.

[PeregrineV]

So Gandalf/Andrius is the same (or something), but no votes for Andrius?

Unvote.
Vote: Andrius

Fixed.

Okay, you could vote for either gandalf or Andrius and it'd be exactly the same except that voting for Gandalf would be marginally meaningful, so you're voting for

Andrius

. They say a townie's only weapon is his vote - well, I guess that's not always true then.

Why would voting for Gandalf be marginally meaningful, but voting for Andrius is meaningless (or whatever the opposite of marginally meaningful is)?

[PeregrineV]

And just a tip, me and Andy claiming the same role does NOT mean we have the same likelihood of being scum, idiot.

You don't know your alignment, but you know "you do not have the same likelihood of being scum"?
And I'm the idiot?
OK

[PeregrineV]

And just a tip, me and Andy claiming the same role does NOT mean we have the same likelihood of being scum, idiot.

You don't know your alignment, but you know "you do not have the same likelihood of being scum"?
And I'm the idiot?
OK

My point is, just because we both said the same thing doesn't mean we're just as likely to be telling the truth.

So one of you could be lying? Since I doubt you think you are, do you think he is?

[PeregrineV]

And just a tip, me and Andy claiming the same role does NOT mean we have the same likelihood of being scum, idiot.

You don't know your alignment, but you know "you do not have the same likelihood of being scum"?
And I'm the idiot?
OK

My point is, just because we both said the same thing doesn't mean we're just as likely to be telling the truth.

So one of you could be lying? Since I doubt you think you are, do you think he is?

No, but apparently you think it's possible one of us are. I'm speaking from your perspective.

Of course it's possible. There's is a possibility that town has two people that don't know they are town. Or each team has one that don't know whose team they are on. Or one or both could be a liar.

I like the Tolkien stories, but have not read this one, so I'm looking at it from the mafia game standpoint.

[PeregrineV]

@Andrius- I didn't see why not. I just finished a large Simpsons game that had Tom Hanks in it. Why? Because Troy McClure was on vacation, so Tom was filling in for him.
So I was fine with it, just had to determine if he was town, 3rd party or lying. Turns out the answer is could be, maybe, and yes but no.
Go figure.

@Dekes- Agree on the Feysal thing. I want to see where it goes before agreeing to lynch him. Good luck on your heat.

@Feysal- Welcome!

@Ludi- Mine's better:

Vig List

1. Master Ludi
2. Furc (by request)
3. See what shapes up day2, then pick another player.

re: Gandalf/Andrius- (assuming any truth to thier claims/posts/etc.)- I think they may be the equivalent of "blank slates", with maybe some sort of action by the seraphs to get them on a team. Or maybe more flavor stuff.

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.
Vote: Kayne

You really have to have more than that.

Re: Feysal & Flavor- some people really enjoy their flavor. I see that as no reason to begrudge them that. I'm sure the rest of his posts will be of the scumhunting sort.

[PeregrineV]

Feysal is pretty likely scum. He's generally much more useful as town. I think the pissing match is an attempt to cover the fact that when he's scum, he usually doesn't have much to say.

I suppose it is time I began to address this.

It is true that I did not have much to say. But before you assume the reasons for this to be sinister in nature, I would like to remind you that I replaced into this game two days ago. Two days. That is barely enough time for me to get my bearings in a large theme game twenty pages long, even one that I was already reading, though it helped. For those two days I was keeping up with and responding to recent posts, including those by Furcolow. I realize of course the flavor was useless, why did you think I wrote "feel free to skip" on the spoiler tag? I simply had nothing better to do then, and I did enjoy watching Furcolow whine and wail about me supposedly having a grudge against him, and making an ass out of himself. Perhaps I had a bit too much fun with that, but it was not entirely wasted effort either. I can now safely ignore Furcolow for the rest of the game, since he is acting just like the useless village idiot I've grown accustomed to scorn, and he is probable town. That does not mean I would not like him to be vigged, and since now I've seen him actually ask for it, I don't even have to feel sorry about it.

Without further ado, I am now completely caught up with the game. I still have to do more ISO reads later and probably meta checks too, but for now I can at least start contributing something worthwhile.

TOWN READS
I am pressed for time right now, so I will leave out the reasons for these for now. If you want to know, you can ask. Stronger reads on top.
mockingjaye
PeregrineV
MagnaofIllusion
Dekes
SpyreX
Furcolow
Gut
Wraith
Magister Ludi
Ellibereth

NULL READS
Chronopie
Sun and Moon
Espeonage
Mastermind of Sin
Will-o-wisp
LordChronos

UNKNOWN
Andrius
gandalf5166

SCUM READS
Empking
- I have not yet checked the meta case on him, so this is partly because I have faith in MoI. However his ISO is full of nothing. His posts are mostly useless one-liners, and of the few posts that are not the majority are where he defends himself from MoI. I also really disliked his post #575, partly because PeregrineV is high in my town reads and I know there is no link between us, and partly because suspecting me does not match the implication that he got town vibes from me in post #531.

VitaminR
- For starters, post #228. He digs up a random vote to use as a reason to suspect PeregrineV, and ignored the much more useless random vote by Mastermind of Sin. I can understand finding a random vote suspicious, I was given grief myself the only time I ever used a die roll for that. MoS does that every game, but if VitaminR finds that sort of thing suspicious, I'd think he'd at least mention it. Then the explanation in post #359 is even worse. He says the vote was suspicious because using a joke reason took all potential pressure away from it. What? Most random votes I've seen have made up reasons, such as the player's avatar wearing a bowler hat, if they have any reasons at all. This is perfectly normal and accepted, and does not reduce the effectiveness of the votes at all. VitaminR should know better, and the way he singles out PeregrineV after Will-o-wisp already called attention to the same vote just reeks.

kanyeknowsbest
- Need I even explain this? Focused exclusively on Gandalf, barely even mentions anything else happening in game. Then there is mockingjaye's analysis in post #357, which I agree with completely.

Now which one to vote... I think I'd prefer VitaminR in fact, but since there is no wagon there that vote would probably be wasted.

Vote: kanyeknowsbest

I am way happier with it than Kanye, because of his logical fallacy (ad hominem) involving me.

Cut out the martyr act. You are a terrible player, everyone knows that, including yourself, since you eagerly play the village idiot card to defend yourself. I can say you are terrible without any ad hominem being involved. Oh, and ad hominem is not a logical fallacy. You trying to claim it is?

That

is a fallacy.

I find it especially hilarious that in the same post you first explained what OMGUS was, and then vote me for calling you an idiot.

Now this is surprising. I was pretty much picturing vultures circling over kanye and myself, and with both wagons at a stalemate I was anticipating a deadline scramble. I was already considering claiming now, so the decision could at least be an informed one, allowing the final wagons to be more readily analyzed after the fact, whichever of us ended up being lynched. And suddenly I see some of the key people pushing for my lynch wavering and considering other suspects. I know, you still think I'm scum, but I'll take what I can get. I did not replace into this game just to be summarily lynched.

I of course expect there to be scum both on my wagon and off it, and I've been looking at people who suspect me and people who claim not to, trying to sort out whose reasoning looks most suspect. I find it weird of course that both Andrius and Gandalf are voting me, and that they both unvoted and revoted accidentally. Furcolow was there too, seeing me as scum together with Will-o-wisp for I have no clue why. Wrong as usual. The one whose reason looks most suspicious though is Empking with his theory that PeregrineV was coaching me. I was about to shout at him for it, but there were two reasons why I cannot. The first is that PeregrineV has been missing for a while which made me uneasy about my initial town read on him, and the second is that once I thought about it, what PeregrineV said was indeed strange. I could easily see that as an overdone white knighting attempt.

Having noted PeregrineV's absence, I had a look at the activity overview, and discovered he had been gone for five days, longer by far than any other player. I next looked at his sitewide activity, to see if perhaps he was on an unannounced V/LA. Turns out that after his last post in this game, PeregrineV has posted over 60 times in other games, and signed up for one more.

This is Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den all over again. I might as well copypaste my case on PeregrineV from that game, because his disappearing act matches his scum meta perfectly. Simply put, I see PeregrineV as the type to lurk as scum, and he is doing an awful lot of that now. I liked his early posts, but not nearly enough to let this slide.

And to think that I criticized Dekes for still having his vote on PeregrineV... Now I'm about to join him. Seeing PeregrineV also on the kanye wagon gives me major doubts about that.

Unvote: kanyeknowsbest
Vote: PeregrineV

Our time is running out, and the way this is going, we need to consolidate our votes on one target quickly. I have lost faith on the kanye wagon, and right now PeregrineV is my best bet. For some strange reason he managed to evade being lynched for days in Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den, and seeing him slip into lurker mode again, I'll be damned before I give him a pass.

*ENGAGE CHEERLEADING MODE*

@VitaminR

: You voted PeregrineV earlier today. How do you feel about him now? What do you think about the case I provided? Would you vote him again?

@Empking

: I know you think PeregrineV and I are scum together. I don't care if you think I've decided to bus him, as long as you vote him. You're wrong about me, but I think you're right about him, and I'd much rather watch him flip from this thread than from the Haudh-en-Ndengin.

@Andrius

: I don't know if you have any real influence over a voting bloc, but if you do, put it to some good use. Have a look at PeregrineV, how active he is in other games compared to here, and then try to tell me he is not scum.

@Everyone else

: It looks like PeregrineV has passed through the day with fairly little attention on him. It is high time this was remedied. What do you think about him? Would you vote him?

I may yet end up lynched, but if I do, I will have done something useful before I go.

Just so I fully understand, not only do I go from the 2nd strongest town read, but now I'm scum, and you are asking your 3-4 scum reads to vote for me?



So, if you can, walk me through those pulse-pounding five days from Post 601 to Post 757. Include not only my scummy activity, but the town activity that your 4 scumreads provided.

kthxbye

[PeregrineV]

Well, amazingly enough, I post about in the middle of the list and I'm a lurker. Well, I can take care of that.

[PeregrineV]

SCUM READS
Empking
- I have not yet checked the meta case on him, so this is partly because I have faith in MoI. However his ISO is full of nothing. His posts are mostly useless one-liners, and of the few posts that are not the majority are where he defends himself from MoI. I also really disliked his post #575, partly because PeregrineV is high in my town reads and I know there is no link between us, and partly because suspecting me does not match the implication that he got town vibes from me in post #531.

Here I am town, and EmpKing is scum.

1. I went back on him because I think its likely that he's scum with Pere.

Here I am scum with Feysal.

@Empking

: I know you think PeregrineV and I are scum together. I don't care if you think I've decided to bus him, as long as you vote him. You're wrong about me, but I think you're right about him, and I'd much rather watch him flip from this thread than from the Haudh-en-Ndengin.

Here I am scum, and EmpKing is town.

The one whose reason looks most suspicious though is Empking with his theory that PeregrineV was coaching me.

EmpKing iswas scumtown, I am coaching scum Feysal(?).

Having noted PeregrineV's absence, I had a look at the activity overview, and discovered he had been gone for five days, longer by far than any other player.

Here I am not spamming the thread, so I am scum, but am I scum with Feysal, or with EmpKing?

[PeregrineV]

You quoted my reads to show Fey is inconsistent? Bad distancing.

No, fellow scumbuddy, I quoted you because you're pointing out me and Feysal are scumbuddies.
And he's pointing out you and me are scumbuddies (in the middle).
Now, I'm not sure if I'm your scumbuddy or he's mine.

And yes, I've only mentioned once how he is aksing all of his previous scumreads to now vote for me.

But, since I'm not posting enough, I've decided to take to take the time to re-iterate that fact, and most likely will do so until asked to stop or Feysal is lynched (along with all of this scumbuddies).

Because tunneling is tech and town.

[PeregrineV]

vote: peregrinev

feysal, i haven't ever really thought you were scum, i was voting you and calling you scum because you are an asshole to me

I would like you to point out where I was being an asshole to you, since you're now voting me.

And I would also like to hear how you got the wincon: "You win when all the assholes are eliminated." because I am so jealous right now.


Butt seriously, brown nosing like this-

OK, I can't do this anymore. I'm laughing too hard.

[PeregrineV]

Now that will make a girl swoon.

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

Do you by chance have a fancy castle? I'd be a good bride?

Sure, c'mon up.



Have some tea and crumpets, and explain to me about your feelings. I want to hear your feelings about me, and why you feel that way. You're so much prettier than all those other princesses, and they meant nothing to me.
So, share, and tell me what ails you.

[PeregrineV]

vote: peregrinev

feysal, i haven't ever really thought you were scum, i was voting you and calling you scum because you are an asshole to me

Also, you were voting Willow before me, so this is even weirder than it first reads.

pretty sure

we're

at 7-7 with gut pulling off
Ludi, vote peregrine

Who is the "we" in your post?

[PeregrineV]

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

I can get behind a Peregrine wagon. It's better than the alternatives and he magically shows up in a big way just when he's being attacked and responds only with condescension towards Feysal's inconsistency. Not really a town response, IMO.

Great 12th post. Are you lurking scum too, or is that just me?

Nothing magical. I read and post content. No additional content, no post.

So, since you are agreeing that Feysal is inconsistent, what should my response be? And how was is condescending to point it out?

And please describe your special relationship with Feysal. You know he's town.

Tell your partner he's wrong.

Unvote, vote: Katsuki

Why Katsuki?

Well, Katsuki is town.

Gut, please explain why you think Katsuki is scum.

And of course Gut says:

Unvote, vote: SpyreX

and nothing else. But you're ok with that, you didn't really mean your questions, because your sure not pressing for answers.

VOTE COUNT #1.12

gandalf5166 - 2 - kanyeknowsbest, SpyreX
kanyeknowsbest -

9

- Will-o-wisp, mockingjaye, Wraith, Magister Ludi, Sun and Moon, Gut, PeregrineV, Feysal, Espeonage
Feysal - 7 - Mastermind of Sin, MagnaofIllusion, LordChronos, Andrius, gandalf5166, Empking, Furcolow
LordChronos - 1 - VitaminR
PeregrineV - 1 - Dekes

Not Voting (2): Chronopie, Ellibereth
[/b]

As a matter of fact, Feysal was up to 7 voters at one time, none of which was Gut, and you asked or addressed none of the voters.

So, in addition to your Feysal relationship, the whole town would like to hear about your Gut relationship.

[PeregrineV]

@SpyreX- I haven't figured out your town motivation for your princess thing.

If you have the role Beloved Princess, then it is in Mafia's interest to kill you to gain a free night of actions.

If you are some flavor role of princess, I saw no mention of it in any of the flavor discussions.

Your scum motivation, obviously, would be to swing along as the "Beloved Princess" who never gets NK for some weird reason until much later in the game when it hurts town. And also the WIFOM caused by your "role" which would make town generally hesitant to lynch you.

So, why come out instead of playing normal and just try to stay alive as long as possible if your death would hurt town?