The Children of Húrin Mafia (GREAT REVIVAL)

[ooba]

I hope something significant happened between pages 22 and 42 since I cant fathom why kanye isn't dead yet.

[ooba]

Re-read done.

For those of you who haven't played with me, I primarily scumhunt by associations - who attacks whom at what point of time, who do you suspect and who you actually vote at any given point. On a secondary level, I also look at tone+intensity+duration+when you switch of an attack to spot if it might be scum bussing each other.
Expect my post to be small and reason-light; I'll elaborate only if I feel the need to; If there is nothing there, then it is due to associations with other reads.

---

Town

8. Dekes
10. mockingjaye
13. Wraith - Love the kanye hate plus that colored wagon list was good
22. Herodotus (replacing LordChronos) - VitR, kanye, MoI suspicion mirrors my reads
3. Sun and Moon (CSL + Amrun hydra)
12. Gut (Cogito Ergo Sum + chamber hydra)
21. Will-o-wisp (Oversoul + Mist Beauty hydra)

11. Furcolow - Initially thought he was scum due to the massive kanye defense. (ISO #69, 88, 89). But D2 play has no attributable scum motivation - Town. (And what I mean by "Town" for self-aligned players is "Not Mafia")

15. Katsuki - Feysal - Resident SK. Read him as town during D1 with the rage quit and the lynch run up. Not going to argue theory here - not supporting this lynch. I'll reevaluate once we have a couple of dead Mafia-ites.

5. gandalf5166 - I would have said town but he hasn't even got his role yet. Not Mafia who is lying about not getting his role though.

---

Above list follows no particular ordering. This list starts from Null and works it's way down to scum

Scum\Null

14. SpyreX - Initially had him as town but all his votes have been on town reads (Gandalf, Pere, Dekes). Plus the kanye defense. The not lynching Feysal note was good though.
6. Ellibereth - Nothing to base a read on.

7. Mastermind of Sin
17. Espeonage

1. Andrius - I'd say Andrius was telling the truth about not receiving his role. However, I think he was recruited to the scum team at around page 28 or so (towards the end of D1). This is dependent on kanye flipping scum though. I would have also expected gandalf to change to town at the same time but maybe I'm wrong or Plum choose not to design the two roles that way.

16. kanyeknowsbest
19. VitaminR
20. MagnaofIllusion
18. Empking

(contd.)

[ooba]

After some low level wagon analysis and assuming 4 scum (+ 1 possible recruit), I'm making a scum call out of {kanye,VitR, (MoI\Empking), Espe} for now.

---

Not lynching kanye today is a big mistake. I am very sure he will flip scum.

Unvote. Vote: Kanye

Can sort out scumbuddies after that.

[ooba]

Ooba: Gandalf does have his role.

Right. In which case, he is town for voting kanye on D2 after he got the role. However, the timing of recieving the role during the night doesn't gel with inflection noted in Andrius's play towards end of D2. Might be wrong about that then.

Doesn't change the fact that kanye needs rope..

[ooba]

What do you think of kanye's recent activity, ooba?

What recent activity? He hasn't posted since D2 started.
If your point is that scum wouldn't avoid the thread altogether like this without posting - note that he's not been posting on the site for the last week at all (he went awol before D2 started here)

[ooba]

@Gut
Disagree on the Furclow shoot.
Espeonage or VitaminR are excellent SK shots.

@MoI
Look above for S&M reasoning. (It is further proof of town alignment if they post elsewhere on the site while totally ignoring this game)
Also, I am very confident on town. reads this game.

4 more votes for a kanye lynch. Please join.

[ooba]

I’ve also seen other games recently where you were confident of your reads – Atomic and BTTF. Not exactly something that makes me confident when I see you state that.

I hope this is a "I can't trust your reads when you say you're confident because you can be scum" statement. But generally I'm much emphatic and over-confident as town. (as evidenced by Battle for Olympus)

---

Four targets, three remain alive. I win if I still live when all my targets are dead. My kill flavor is not specified.

So people slayed by Anglachel\Gurthang in the story (My flavor comes from the wiki entries)
- Beleg who is already dead
- Brandir
- Glaurung
- Morgoth
Could be a nifty fakeclaim but my take away from this is "Brandir is not a fakeclaim and hence town."

---

@empking
we agree to disagree on S&M then

---

@elli

Hell no
you were in atomic
you don't actually believe this

Amrun was scum there and posted? The not-posting tell should be considered w.r.t to the person.

I have a reverse meta. I posted this in the recent MSV

a) Me being late to the game:

It was obviously laziness to read a bunch of pages. I know I'm going to get called out on posting in other threads and ignoring this for a couple of days - and me-scum would have never let it get to the level where I would be mass voted for it. As simple as that. You can check my other games - apart from the invitational where I had time issues - when I'm scum I both
- Post just enough to make sure I don't get called out on it
- Definitely won't post a lot in other games while I lurk in my scum game. The logical thing to do in situations where you don't want to post in a scum-game is not post in the site at all.

---

@Gut

Kanye, do you have e-mail notification turned on?

Game relevant?

Anyway, people should sheep Faraday's reads and vote for VitaminR!

Strange that you leave out kanye who was just below VitR in that list.

---

On the Seraph QT thing
- MoI is probably not lying about having QT access and the posts there. It is objectively verifiable and not worth lying about.
- To consider MoI "confirmed" town based on this info (I'm looking at WoW) is wrong because this is all he's given us
-- There might be a ninja\strongman in setup
-- FaraMina is the more pro town seraph
-- Might be one more person listening in on the QT
None of this helps with lynching scum here. Call him confirmed if he bags us one-two scum with that info. (And posting Faraday's reads on kanye is not what I mean by bagging scum with info from the QT. Something more like "FaraMin (or AGMThor) investigated VitR to be scum")

I really would like MoS to stop talking about that though.

---

Why is this kanye lynch taking so much time? First D1 sudden change - now this delay. I like how he plays it as "both me and Feysal are scum or both are not" though.

[ooba]

My Towniness should be judged completely apart for the Seraphim QT. It should be judged based on the rest of my play.

Funny how this never came out when WoW was calling you "confirmed" town just for the Seraph QT.

It's not weak undermining - I'm openly telling another person that his basis for "confirm"ing you is not right. And Feysal is NOT mafia.

@MoS: Why not MoI from the kanye wagon?

[ooba]

I don't think anyone's claiming this, are they?

It was in response to MoI's "I caught Feysal for you guys".

[ooba]

Re-reading end of D1 and today's posts again ..

@WoW: What's that picture supposed to mean?

[ooba]

Unvote

I'm doing a "What if kanye is town" re-read and don't want him lynched prematurely ..

[ooba]

Unvote

I'm doing a "What if kanye is town" re-read and don't want him lynched prematurely ..

Will your kanye vote be coming in tomorrow?

Also, "prematurely." It's slightly late for prematurely, as the day phase is quickly coming to an end. If you haven't done so already, vote Kanye.

All posts in the past 2 hours have been from this head.

~Mist Beauty

"Prematurely" meaning before I'm done with my analysis (which should be up in thirty minutes).
Also, thirty plus hours to lynch. More than enough time to get a lynch.

[ooba]

Changed my mind on kanye due to last couple of pages.

Unvote. Vote: Espeonage

Just sheep me on this lynch.

[ooba]

Wraith is town. So is S&M.

VitR is a possibility but I've pegged Espeonage as being more likely due to positions taken by other people on him. ("playing poorly", let me place him third on my scumlist of five, oh he has to be in the short list or hanged today but let me not try to push much and more importantly not comment when another player votes him close to deadline).

I'm unsure on WoW.

[ooba]

Why is Wraith is town?

Gut from posting. Genuine reactions - exact same thought process as mine when I was reading for the first time.

[ooba]

Like I said, if you think I'm town, sheep me for this lynch.

[ooba]

You being town doesn't make you right about Kanye. Plus, sheeping is stupid. Unless you're sheeping me. >_>

I switched to espeonage about a page back.

[ooba]

Unofficial Vote count
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kanyeknowsbest - 6 -

Wraith

, mockingjaye, Andrius, Will-o-wisp, Empking,

Sun and Moon

VitaminR - 4 - Herodotus, Gut,

Feysal, Furcolow

Espeonage -

ooba

S&M - MagnaofIllusion
Furcolow - 1 - Espeonage
Feysal - 1 - Dekes
Dekes - 1 - VitaminR
Wraith - 1 -

Mastermind of Sin

Mastermind of Sin - 1 -

gandalf5166

Will-o-wisp - 2 -

SpyreX, kanyeknowsbest

Not Voting (1): Ellibereth

With 20 alive it will take 10 votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 will be (expired on 2011-10-13 11:59:59)

.

If there is no majority at deadline, there will be no lynch for that day.

---

Fuck this - not going to get my lynch. Should have started on this crusade earlier.
Out of the two possible, VitR is a better lynch.

Unvote. Vote: VitR

P.S: Marked out those who I think are bad shots for Feysal in green. You can add Hero, gut if Vit flips scum.

[ooba]

Anybody who isnt voting one of vitR or kanye should switch immediately.

[ooba]

@Mist: Hey - I'm already on VitR

Unofficial Vote count
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kanyeknowsbest - 6 -

Wraith

, mockingjaye, Andrius, Will-o-wisp, Empking,

Sun and Moon

VitaminR - 6 - Herodotus, Gut,

Feysal, Furcolow, kanyeknowsbest

,

ooba

S&M - MagnaofIllusion
Furcolow - 1 - Espeonage
Feysal - 1 - Dekes
Dekes - 1 - VitaminR
Wraith - 1 -

Mastermind of Sin

Mastermind of Sin - 1 -

gandalf5166

Will-o-wisp - 2 -

SpyreX

Not Voting (1): Ellibereth

With 20 alive it will take 10 votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 will be (expired on 2011-10-13 11:59:59)

[ooba]

@Mist - Yup. I decided let's unvote my buddy when he's close to lynch (after deciding to bus him the entire day) so that when he dies, I'll be lynched next

The fact that the wagon is again stalled on Kanye is still bothering me,

and I also have very negative feelings about how Kanye has played, and how he has interacted with me in particular, because I think I gave him lots of opportunities to change my mind in D1 and he didn’t even try, and his whole “either both or neither” comment today really bothers me, as does his timing and reactive rather than proactive play. I think it’s equally logical that he is scum based on these things

and the fact that a lot of the defense (self and otherwise) of Kanye is tied up in speculation of other possibilities rather than in more concrete evidences.

This seems to setup a "Kanye was a bad player" position after his mislynch.

---

Unofficial Vote count
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kanyeknowsbest - 6 -

Wraith

, mockingjaye, Andrius, Will-o-wisp, Empking,

Sun and Moon

VitaminR - 6 - Herodotus, Gut,

Feysal, Furcolow, kanyeknowsbest

,

ooba

S&M - MagnaofIllusion
Furcolow - 1 - Espeonage
Feysal - 1 - Dekes
Dekes - 1 - VitaminR
Wraith - 1 -

Mastermind of Sin

Mastermind of Sin - 1 -

gandalf5166

Will-o-wisp - 2 -

SpyreX

Not Voting (1): Ellibereth

With 20 alive it will take 10 votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 will be (expired on 2011-10-13 11:59:59)

---

[ooba]

Btw I'll be here till deadline to switch for a lynch if necessary.

[ooba]

Ooba, what's the color-coding for?

People Feysal shouldn't shoot.

[ooba]

Also choose and vote one of the two!

[ooba]

Unofficial Vote count
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kanyeknowsbest (L-4) - 6 -

Wraith

, mockingjaye, Andrius, Will-o-wisp, Empking,

Sun and Moon

VitaminR (L-3) - 7 - Herodotus, Gut,

Feysal, Furcolow, kanyeknowsbest

,

ooba

, MagnaofIllusion

Useless singleton votes (7) - Espeonage, Dekes, VitaminR,

Mastermind of Sin

,

gandalf5166

,

SpyreX

, Ellibereth

With 20 alive it will take 10 votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 will be (expired on 2011-10-13 11:59:59)

Dekes is awol
I'm assuming VitR will come in an vote kanye so we need three more votes either way
MoS better vote since he made an appearance
Gandalf, SpyreX, elli, espeonage need to make it to the thread right away

[ooba]

@VitR: Simple. Of the two possible lynches, I'm leaning towards town-kanye while you are a scum possibility for me.

@empking: Why the move? Both were equal on votes?

---

Unofficial Vote count
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kanyeknowsbest (L-4) - 6 -

Wraith

, mockingjaye, Andrius, Will-o-wisp,

Sun and Moon

, VitaminR
VitaminR (L-2) - 8 - Herodotus, Gut,

Feysal, Furcolow, kanyeknowsbest

,

ooba

, MagnaofIllusion, Empking

Useless singleton votes (7) - Espeonage, Dekes,

Mastermind of Sin

,

gandalf5166

,

SpyreX

, Ellibereth

With 20 alive it will take 10 votes to lynch.[/size]

Deadline for Day 2 will be (expired on 2011-10-13 11:59:59)

[ooba]

@Vit - You should claim.

[ooba]

Damnit - that seals my earlier belief that espeonage was a better lynch.

My list would be the same as yours:
- Hero
- espeonage instead of Dekes
- Mjaye
And probably MoI.

Part of the reason I went espeonage over you was because Hero was on your wagon & positions taken by the others. I mean Mjaye doesn't really mention you at all but places espeon third on her scum list which looked like what scum would do. Plus Hero thinks "espeo is playing poorly"..

If we lose this, I blame the townies who didn't sheep me ..

[ooba]

It's only day 2, get over yourself.

Might not be here D3!

@Mjaye: I think keeping a scumbuddy on the "person I would lynch" list but not pushing it to lynch is a great scum strategy. (The extreme variation of this is the mutual bussing scum would keep arguing incessantly in thread but never seem to get the other lynched). So yes, I know you've mentioned him.
Would like to draw parallel's to MoI's position on espe - multiple instances of "Let's add him to the hanging list", "I'd hang espe today" but when it came to the end of day a couple of pages back where I asked people to join a espe wagon, he made a couple of posts on SeraphQT and basically ignored that.

@Hero: You're pointing that out because??

Would also like to point out that it's still not a lynch to the non-voters ..

Unofficial Vote count
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kanyeknowsbest (L-4) - 6 - Wraith, mockingjaye, Andrius, Will-o-wisp, Sun and Moon, VitaminR
VitaminR (L-2) - 8 - Herodotus, Gut, Feysal, Furcolow, kanyeknowsbest, ooba, MagnaofIllusion, Empking

Useless singleton votes (7) - Espeonage, Dekes, Mastermind of Sin, gandalf5166, SpyreX, Ellibereth

With 20 alive it will take 10 votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 will be (expired on 2011-10-13 11:59:59)

[ooba]

@Hero: Not a fan of tying down Feysal to a single target because of scum-doc possibility.

Unofficial Vote count
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kanyeknowsbest (L-4) - 6 - mockingjaye, Andrius, Will-o-wisp, Sun and Moon, VitaminR, Feysal
VitaminR (L-2) - 8 - Herodotus, Gut, Furcolow, kanyeknowsbest, ooba, MagnaofIllusion, Empking, Wraith

Useless singleton votes (6) - Espeonage, Dekes, Mastermind of Sin, gandalf5166, SpyreX, Ellibereth

With 20 alive it will take 10 votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 will be (expired on 2011-10-13 11:59:59)

Cutting it awfully close - while I can identify with Feysal's switch - it's risky. Also willing to hammer kanye if it means lynch though.

[ooba]

HOLY CRAP PEOPLE MAKE UP YOUR MINDS

Minds made up - both prob town wagons. Now in the "any lynch which goes through" mode.

I wish Plum were here though - since we could have asked for a deadline extension .. Cant take the risk now ..

[ooba]

I'll make this clear since I've been hinting at this all day -

I DONT WANT S&M DEAD!

espeonage, kanye, and WoW.

[ooba]

Damn this.

Role claim: Nienor
Not claiming my other abilities, if any.
- I know S&M is my brother Turin
- Share a Mason QT with them - no daytalk

Even if you take into account that this game is bastard and Plum might have lied to me\Ludi about masonary, it is unlikely that S&M is scum due to a few reasons:
- They are a vig. They let ludi direct the vig kill on N1. Took my inputs on vig shot N2 - We narrowed it down to espeonage.
- Claimed that killing Chrono made them a miller in QT. It sounded genuine and I don't think this was a pre-planned gambit between MoI and S&M to confirm one or other.
- I still stick by my taking "lurking to the 11 is a towntell" post. Also this was my first picture breadcrumb in MS - Note the masonary symbol in the pic.

So
- Faramina have confirmed that S&M are Turin
- MoI claims he will die if we don't lynch S&M
- Faramina want empking dead for some reasons

I suggest we lynch empking. MoI should die today if he's telling the truth.

Unvote. Vote: empking

Also worth noting that espeonage did not die yesterday due to the kill.

[ooba]

Forgot to complete this:

I suggest we lynch empking. MoI should die today if he's telling the truth. You can lynch\vig S&M and me if he flips town.

[ooba]

You do realize that you're planning to lynch

MASON TURIN VIG!!!!