Animal Rescue: petsPick (Game Over!)

[Ghostlin]

Also, this is petsPick!

Tell me about your actual pets, no details of course. Just sharing, I'll go first. I have a puppy she's about 1.5 years and I LOVE HER she is fluffy and adorable!

This is a terrible idea. This equates you claiming a fluffy and adorable puppy. How is it possible that you do not realise this? And besides, this is fishing. Say that someone tells you that his dog is a German Shepherd who can find anything when he follows his nose. You will just assume that this person is likely a cop. Now I am forced to wonder which one is the explanation of your behaviour. (1) Reckless town - who just won the "VI of the game" trophy despite quil's efforts or (2) fishy scum.

Yes, but in a petsPick, I'm pretty sure a good majority of us have two of the most common pets out there which are dogs and cats for our animals. Everyone thinks their pet is adorable, I'm sure no one submitted a pet they just hated in a 'pet you love' mafia game. And I'm not sure 'young and spry' relates to a specific mafia role, do you?

The thing that worries me is not that glowball naively chose to reveal her animal's flavor so to speak, but the fact that this is a huge overreach over information that really equates to nothing specific about the role.

Vote: lewatcher

L-7

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Tired. Sorry. Should be closer to L-4.

[Ghostlin]

Vote: lewarcher82

(L-8)

Now I am forced to wonder which one is the explanation of your behaviour. (1) Reckless town - who just won the "VI of the game" trophy despite quil's efforts or (2) fishy scum.

I will agree on the town VI hypothesis for now. Another detail in her posts shows that she tends to be clueless about the fishy potential of her proposal.

Moreover, I have never seen scum fish so blatantly.

It sounds like you already had your mind made up.

I sure did. Feel free to meta me and see what I think of fishing as a scumtell. It is anti-town, but only moronic scum does it. But this does not prevent me from discussing the point with the player in the first place.

Moving to a more interesting post:

Also, this is petsPick!

Tell me about your actual pets, no details of course. Just sharing, I'll go first. I have a puppy she's about 1.5 years and I LOVE HER she is fluffy and adorable!

This is a terrible idea. This equates you claiming a fluffy and adorable puppy. How is it possible that you do not realise this? And besides, this is fishing. Say that someone tells you that his dog is a German Shepherd who can find anything when he follows his nose. You will just assume that this person is likely a cop. Now I am forced to wonder which one is the explanation of your behaviour. (1) Reckless town - who just won the "VI of the game" trophy despite quil's efforts or (2) fishy scum.

Yes, but in a petsPick, I'm pretty sure a good majority of us have two of the most common pets out there which are dogs and cats for our animals. Everyone thinks their pet is adorable, I'm sure no one submitted a pet they just hated in a 'pet you love' mafia game. And I'm not sure 'young and spry' relates to a specific mafia role, do you?

The thing that worries me is not that glowball naively chose to reveal her animal's flavor so to speak, but the fact that this is a huge overreach over information that really equates to nothing specific about the role.

Vote: lewatcher

L-7

Explain, please. Are you voting me for thinking glow was fishing or for saying she wasn't after asking her if she was? Are you voting me for the reason Vi is voting me or for the opposite one?

I'm saying you're stretching in unbelievable ways, taking what should be a 'getting to know you' flavor claim and trying to turn it into a scum tell. That only dumb scum do.

[Ghostlin]

Well, I'm operating under the premise that whoever has Roxie can vote in secret since no one has fessed up to having that pet. If it's a public vote, then clearly what I said is moot. If no one comes forward to claim Roxie, then I think it's worth being cautious around.

I feel funny about this post. It reads like passive aggressive rolefishing to me. I'm not ok with someone going 'I have Roxie and my pet can vote', particularly since if Roxie is in the votecount, we should be able to see where Roxie's vote is.

[Ghostlin]

Kids, it's still fishing, even if it makes you feel better that someone has it that's claimed it. And here's one thing I don't get. honestly. If Player A claims Roxi, and you don't trust player A as town, will it really help you out to know that Player A has Roxi?

And if the DV can help us with the game because scum might have to be more careful with their votes, going 'HEY, HERE'S THE DV!' is just a place for the shot to go.

[Ghostlin]

Lewarcher wagon looks quite good, actually.
Though that'd mean a lot of scum-on-scum piling. CES / DDDP / UT or something.
I'll deepdive later this evening I think. Keeping Lew out of hammer range for the time being sounds like a good plan.

Was there a point to this post? Reck used the word non-committal to describe Amrun, but I think this trumps that.

[Ghostlin]

Honestly, we have a vig that's going to kill off half the majority of the animals here, and has been pretty scummy to begin with. Yup, still comfortable with my vote where it is post claim. The PR doesn't seem benefical to town at all.

[Ghostlin]

My beginning scum reads:
1) Lewatcher: I'm not buying it. It's completely counterintuitive for you to be opposed to a pet claim when it's got a chance of killing you. Also, flipping out about said claim, and your current focus on Vi means you're looking for an easy way out of this.

As for your suggestion? No Deal.

2) Llamarble: Has contributed zero to town and all he's really done is restate the obvious.

[Ghostlin]

*Next Day*
Lewarcher82: "Gosh, I'm still alive. I don't know what happened, Mafia must have either roleblocked me or maybe glowball was lying about her dog-claim."

And then he gets lynched. Lynching him D2 instead of D1 is not particularly meaningful.

Why would you postpone it, then? Let's say for the sake of the lulz, he is telling the truth, is town, and scum does roleblock him. Depending if we lynch scum today or not, we could be one or two mislynches behind. I sincerely doubt we broke the game here. It's the reason why I've always been all over lynching D1 cop claims at L-1; they're too outed to be useful.

[Ghostlin]

You guys are going to have to endure srs Quilford this game because of xvart. >___>

Let's consult the facts.

1.

zoraster posted that alignment was randomised. That means that people with a specific animal as their pet won't all be the same alignment unless random.org determined otherwise, which is highly improbable.

2.

lewarcher claimed to be a role who dies when he targets dogs and kills his target when he targets cats. That means lewarcher kills cats regardless of alignment.

Because he is killing

regardless of alignment

, it only makes sense that he is self-aligned.

If you're thinking that that's a really underpowered third party role, he probably has the ability to rolecop someone during the day or something like that... guessing people's pets would make it chance for him.

Obviously none of this applies if he's

still

lying about his role, but I don't think he is.

So, it's up to whether we want a third party role who might be able to kill scum alive or dead at the end of Day 1. I'm not sure myself, but I'm leaning heavily towards dead.

There's no difference between a destructive third-party role and a mafia member. They're both scum. You didn't need to go on about that for five paragraphs.

[Ghostlin]

And guys, repeatable Vig roles for scum do exist. I got one in Philosphy mafia that worked off me BUSSING my partners (I was scum), and I got a day kill the following Day.

[Ghostlin]

For the record, I'm not arguing that he is town. I'm arguing that his alignment cannot yet be determined for sure and that he is not the smartest lynch for today.

Why would you leave a third party role like SK alive on Day 1?

[Ghostlin]

Consider for a minute that you absolutely believe Le's claim. Your options are:
1) Limited modified Town Vig.
2) Limited modified SK (only wins when he's the only cat alive).
3) Limited modified Scum Vig (which could happen depending on the protection roles in Town).

[Ghostlin]

Consider for a minute that you absolutely believe Le's claim. Your options are:
1) Limited modified Town Vig.
2) Limited modified SK (only wins when he's the only cat alive).
3) Limited modified Scum Vig (which could happen depending on the protection roles in Town).

...And? lol

2 and 3 are scum roles. There is no middle ground if you believe in his claim there, it's gotta be one of the three.

Also, do you think just dogs or cats exist in this game?

[Ghostlin]

You can lynch SK day 1, but if you never lynch scum after that, you still lose. It's much better to lynch SCUM. An SK lynch is a very-little-information flip. Town can harness him to do their bidding under threat of death, as well. If he disobeys, he dies.

For example, tonight, we can tell him who to target.

And you can lynch all the scum players you want, but you don't lynch a hostile third party role, town still loses.

Why are we having this conversation? I'm not even heavily invested in if he's an SK or not, I believe he's scum.

[Ghostlin]

Llam, you do realize that Lew's alignment isn't a question with one answer, right? I say this because your last two posts go 'oh, he could be scum.' 'Oh, he could be town.' We know what he could be, choose one.

Also, your case on Quilford?

[Ghostlin]

Llam, you do realize that Lew's alignment isn't a question with one answer, right? I say this because your last two posts go 'oh, he could be scum.' 'Oh, he could be town.' We know what he could be, choose one.

Also, your case on Quilford?

Should read 'you do realize Lew's alignment isn't a question with more than one answer'.

[Ghostlin]

What, Baby Spice's role in Strategy Mafia?

That proves nothing except that Lewarcher could be scum. HEY GUESS WHAT OF COURSE HE COULD BE SCUM... I never said any differently, and you are failing very hard at reading comprehension so far in this game.

But now that I think about it, zoraster is unlikely to put another role like that in two games back to back as the same alignment.

I don't see the merit in speculating about mod meta in this instance; I speculated about it because you asked, but I think it's fairly irrelevant.

What do you think he is, Amrun?

Also, the line about zo unlikely putting another role like that in two games back to back is WIFOM. And slightly outguessing the mod.

[Ghostlin]

It doesn't suck. It means we can move on to less dumb lynches.

KK I THINK YOU OWE ME A SHEEP

Aren't governers only supposed to govern in twilight? I don't think it counts if he uses it before lewarcher82 is even hammered.

@ Cogito Ergo Sum - Is your mind absolutely unchangeable?

@Amrun - I'm regretting offering up my vote to you. What's the case on Llamamarble?

The case on Llamarble is quite flimsy, actually, and I'm probably going to change my vote, but I'm worried about wagon viability.

I'd be on jason ideally. If not that, Ghostlin. I'm prepared to compromise to see someone not-lewarcher lynched.

Considering you're not lynching your scum reads today, I feel oddly safe.

[Ghostlin]

VOTE: DDDP
Yay I'm voting scum now!

Why? How?

[Ghostlin]

Jason, Amrun, and CES are all very content to let a scummy player with a Vig claim, no matter how limited; do whatever he wants tonight. Noted. It's quite likely one of these players is scum.

I'm not even going to waste my breath on scum is scum and we should lynch Lew irregardless. We've had that argument for about three pages now.

If the Governor went through, and I doubt it since it was never announced in thread, I would not mind the Llam wagon considering his contribution today is nill. His last three posts are jumping back and forth on the fence on whether or not Le's scum.

[Ghostlin]

Why are we drinking this batch of WIFOM koolaid again? VP, Jason, knock it off. I get it. The people opposing the Lew wagon want to test out his claim during Night.

Fine,

if

the CES Governor went through, I'll vote to lynch Llamarble instead and I'm deciding if Jason's stupid or scum intentionally missing the point. If Lew wants to commit suicide at that point at Night 1, then go with God. He should be data dumping us with everything he's got if he's town anyhow.

If it's a bluff

, the person that's already offered hammers Lew, gather the information from the lynch and go forward from there at Day 2.

No one unvotes. We move forward as if we were playing a mafia game with a dodgy claim on a scummy player and we follow the plan outlined above.

[Ghostlin]

Vote: Llam

While he's posted more analysis than he did last night, he's not really backed it up, and spent most of Day 1 being The Load.

[Ghostlin]

CES: What was the meaning or the point of your governor bluff last night?

[Ghostlin]

Alright, looking at glowball/Llamarble connection, I begin with Llamarble

Also, this is petsPick!

Tell me about your actual pets, no details of course. Just sharing, I'll go first. I have a puppy she's about 1.5 years and I LOVE HER she is fluffy and adorable!

This is a terrible idea. This equates you claiming a fluffy and adorable puppy. How is it possible that you do not realise this? And besides, this is fishing. Say that someone tells you that his dog is a German Shepherd who can find anything when he follows his nose. You will just assume that this person is likely a cop. Now I am forced to wonder which one is the explanation of your behaviour. (1) Reckless town - who just won the "VI of the game" trophy despite quil's efforts or (2) fishy scum.

If knowing who cats are gives you vigging powers, wouldn't that be grounds for species-claim?

Here defending Glowballs call for claims.

posting to say I exist but not reading this game til tomorrow

It's tomorrow, and you're the only one not voting and neither is "roxi" so I'm assuming the vote belongs to you?

IDK... care to comment on this?

Hahaha truly you are fishy mcfisherwoman.
And 'oh man I'll own the VI label!' can be read as "YES! AN EXCUSE TO BE ANTI-TOWN."

Glowball is town.

defence of Glow again, calling her town.

More defending of Glow

Jason - II had town on him early but I was totally wrong. 135, 161, the quote striping post is just amazing and the glowball vote is :terrible:

Pretty sure glowball is scum if lewarcher is scum.

Hated this.

now to look at Glowball...Glow has made no mention of Llamarble the entire game, nor made any reference to any Llamarble posting, quotes from Alright, looking at glowball/Llamarble connection, I begin with Llamarble

Also, this is petsPick!

Tell me about your actual pets, no details of course. Just sharing, I'll go first. I have a puppy she's about 1.5 years and I LOVE HER she is fluffy and adorable!

This is a terrible idea. This equates you claiming a fluffy and adorable puppy. How is it possible that you do not realise this? And besides, this is fishing. Say that someone tells you that his dog is a German Shepherd who can find anything when he follows his nose. You will just assume that this person is likely a cop. Now I am forced to wonder which one is the explanation of your behaviour. (1) Reckless town - who just won the "VI of the game" trophy despite quil's efforts or (2) fishy scum.

If knowing who cats are gives you vigging powers, wouldn't that be grounds for species-claim?

Here defending Glowballs call for claims.

posting to say I exist but not reading this game til tomorrow

It's tomorrow, and you're the only one not voting and neither is "roxi" so I'm assuming the vote belongs to you?

IDK... care to comment on this?

Hahaha truly you are fishy mcfisherwoman.
And 'oh man I'll own the VI label!' can be read as "YES! AN EXCUSE TO BE ANTI-TOWN."

Glowball is town.

defence of Glow again, calling her town.

More defending of Glow

Jason - II had town on him early but I was totally wrong. 135, 161, the quote striping post is just amazing and the glowball vote is :terrible:

Pretty sure glowball is scum if lewarcher is scum.

Hated this.

now to look at Glowball...Glow has made no mention of Llamarble the entire game, nor made any reference to any Llamarble posting...

I 100% believe there to be a connection or even through quotes within quotes....

I 100% believe there to be a connection

And your point is....? Besides your 'there's a connection', what's the connection?

[Ghostlin]

He has been defending Glowball non stop
Glowball has not mentioned or even referenced him.

I had the two of them as scum day 1... I see this as a connection to further my read on them both as scum.

Ok, but how is glowball scum/town by Llam's scum/town position? You make it sound like scum buddy each other all the time, while I'll be blunt here, it's frequently not the case.

[Ghostlin]

D1 there seems to be a Jason - Qford - Sotty - Xvart thing going on in parallel to Lew-thing.People who took no interest in one / the other are POIs.

The Quilford-Sotty-Xvart-VP-Jason thing was much more interesting than the actual lynch.

Could you explain the "thing" and why VP Baltar got involved in it ex post facto?

I'd appreciate an explanation from Cogito Ergo Sum about the governing thing.

Also, what question of Sotty7 did glowball avoid? I missed that somewhere...

VOTE: Ghostlin
Because he's scummier than either VP Baltar or Llamarble.

Why?

Bluntly, no one's really pointed out a case. The claimed Census Taker went, 'oh, hi, I'm the Census Taker', and then voted me, and you've said I'm scummer than VP Baltar and Llamarble with as much equally little logic.

[Ghostlin]

In post 431, Ghostlin wrote:Jason, Amrun, and CES are all very content to let a scummy player with a Vig claim, no matter how limited; do whatever he wants tonight. Noted. It's quite likely one of these players is scum.What happened to this Ghostlin?I was actually feeling iffy on Jason, but further reading has him leaning town for me, just townWRONG. The only real twitch I got was him listing a 3rd party in the big catch up post of 426. I would like him to look into Ghostlin and explain the gut scum read though.

I still think it's the case, and Quilford's census results back this up; scum would be looking for the third party (particularly if they think it's an SK) and would be happy for the easy town cred. I'm leaning towards Jason due to his glowball clusterbomb where he tries to declare her scum with another player.

If I was to choose another? CES. Depending on how you read it, the fake governor didn't really do anything for Town last night, it changed no one's mind, and would be wonderful real estate to prove how townie he was today. In fact, and I'll doublecheck the thread, I call him out for the gambit and he's not answered. He's been mute most of day two.

[Ghostlin]

Amrun, chainsawing for llamarble since 2011. Trademark.

Chainsaws are useless without flips.

[Ghostlin]

Okay but I don't get your point. Weren't you the one talking about LewSK yesterday? How would the scum have known there was an SK on day one? If we are to believe Quilford's result, which I do, a four man scum team seems reasonable in a 16 player game give or take powers.

Yes and no. I wasn't the one to incept the idea of LewSK, but I was one of the proponents that if Lew was an SK, even a modified one, we should kill him. Sotty, let me answer your question with a question: what do you believe is the most likely third party role in this game, plus or minus powers?

[Ghostlin]

Then shouldn't you be voting Ghostlin?

Yeah, probably.
VOTE: Ghostlin

Really?

And people say opportunism in mafia is dead.

Though I'm not really sure out of VP / Ghostlin / Xvart who's going to flip scum the hardest.
Right now I feel like all of them will.

Now that I've put my vote here people are going to want a case or something though.
I guess I'll just say "his ISO" for now.

Derp. Now that I've like voted him and stuff under sheeping Amrun, I think I'm going to post something like 'his ISO' as a reason.

I really, really REALLY want someone to explain to me exactly how Llam ISN'T scummy.

[Ghostlin]

Now that I've like voted him and stuff under sheeping Amrun,

Wait, do you think Lllamarble sheeped me?

Yes, yes I do. It's pretty blantant. Do you want me to requote the exchange again?

[Ghostlin]

Now that I've like voted him and stuff under sheeping Amrun,

Wait, do you think Lllamarble sheeped me?

Yes, yes I do. It's pretty blantant. Do you want me to requote the exchange again?

Let me rephrase it for you since your reading comprehension has failed you:

Vi said there was another useless poster posting within the last 25 posts. There are one or two other candidates for this, but most likely, it's you.

Llamarble said he's wavering on VP, but thinks you are "face meltingly scum."

Logically, his vote should be on you, and I wanted to see if he would move it there. He did.

Bzzzzzzzzzzt try again. You fail.

Nope, I don't. Frankly, him doing things with you and Vi prompting him is still sheeping. And a reason like 'his ISO' is the same crap he's phoned in most of the game. If you're too blind to see why Llam would agree with Vi, who's fairly obvtown and you, Amrun, for free towncred particlularly since I'm the competing wagon, I can't help you.

[Ghostlin]

Mmkay so posting for activity, but I really don't understand this Ghostlin thing so I obviously need to focus and read more.

OK, so you're active lurking right now. Can I ask why you're not as interested in the wagon you might be on Day 2 rather than Day 1?

I can't remember - is this the part where I continue being obtuse and encourage people to grow the Ghostlin wagon, or is this the part where I point out his selective posting elsewhere onsite? I was kind of wondering about it, but didn't vote until I actually saw it happen (check timestamps for etc.). It happened again about an hour ago too.

Ghostlin wagon is a lock. CES can once again :dealwithit: .

Do you have an acutal case here, or does the fact that I spdorically do things such as write out a novel I've got due by the end of November just not factor into this point. Here's what I'll say. I still don't like Llamarble due to fact that his only wagonable vote on me and when pressed for a case he only posts the words 'his ISO'. I don't like jason due to the hideous amount of confirmation bias that he attempted with glowball at the end of the day. I'm not thrilled with VP Baltar and glowball mailing their stuff in, and there was at least one day where I wasn't on site anywhere for any four of my games. I'm curious to know one thing from Xvart, who is really the only person that hasn't posted a oneliner most of today: do you think glowball and jason are scumbuddies together and why, considering his stance that she was scum with someone else?

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Bluntly, this game is putting me to relative sleep since a lot of time there have seemed to be a plethora of oneliners posted to it. I also have another game where I only very spordically post due to the fact it's lylo and town can't make up their minds.

[Ghostlin]

Hi, haven't posted in a while so I'll catch up tomorrow.

Mmkay so posting for activity, but I really don't understand this Ghostlin thing so I obviously need to focus and read more.

lol, ice in those veins

lol, ice in those veins

HEY, I can't help it if--wait, were you talking about me?

none other

^Because all of this has things entirely to do with scumhunting.

[Ghostlin]

What? Are you saying that I am LESS interested than I was last day phase? Also, what are you getting at? It seems like you wish to cast suspicion in my direction while your wagon builds, you want to place a vote place a vote. I don't have time for people who wish to feel around... Step forward if you have something to say about me.

OK. You posted a proddodge. I appreciate you wanting to review my case, but you still posted a proddodge while I'm being accused of generally flaking in this game. I'm calling you out for posting a proddodge when I don't remember you doing this yesterday.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: And Vi, before you post something that says that's only five posts, I can include the entire discussion of voting one's preferences in scum reads Amrun and CES posted yesterday. Fact of the matter is, I don't see your point when I'm not entirely certain people aren't doing similar. I don't get why people are so uncertain about Llamarble since he's spent 2/3rds of this game with really shallow, bad analysis, and jason who did comparsion reads. And CES and UT seem to be posting fluff about not much at all. Unless I get the mysterious quintuple voter role, I don't see much to comment on except for the fact that there's nothing much to comment on.

[Ghostlin]

OK. You posted a proddodge. I appreciate you wanting to review my case, but you still posted a proddodge while I'm being accused of generally flaking in this game. I'm calling you out for posting a proddodge when I don't remember you doing this yesterday.

So you're using me as a defense? Wtf?

I'm using you as an example of someone who was heavily active and has posted nothing of import most of today. While I've been singing the praises of Llamarble is scum a lot of today, even when people have jumped off the wagon due to mysterious townreads on him suddenly. If you'd like, I could point out that Quil's not posted a lot since the census results either.

[Ghostlin]

I guess that is the long way to explain that glowball's alignment to me is inconsequential at this juncture as from a theoretical standpoint glowball could be either alignment as jason's behavior is scum aligned regardless of glowball's alignment. If/when jason flips scum I think that will provide more evidence against glowball which we can discuss his lynch at that juncture. If Llamarble is town and jason is scum I think glowball is most certainly scum.

So, for confirmation for the dumb kids like me in the audience: are you saying that you think the possible link between glowball and jason is just icing as far as confirmation is confirmed? You believe they're both scum (and hence probably buddies unless there's third party scum in this game) and so the link between solidifies the idea instead of an associative read if one's town the other's scum?

[Ghostlin]

This is the first time I've ever seen an "there's too little to read, I can't be bothered" argument.

I'm being honest with my semi-lurking of this thread, I thought I'd try it. It's more of 'there's not enough here to respond to, so I can't be bothered' argument, however.

I am curious to get a full case on my lynch, however. If it's only on active lurking and being useless, there ARE players who ARE being bigger loads than me.

[Ghostlin]

OK. You posted a proddodge. I appreciate you wanting to review my case, but you still posted a proddodge while I'm being accused of generally flaking in this game. I'm calling you out for posting a proddodge when I don't remember you doing this yesterday.

So you're using me as a defense? Wtf?

I'm using you as an example of someone who was heavily active and has posted nothing of import most of today. While I've been singing the praises of Llamarble is scum a lot of today, even when people have jumped off the wagon due to mysterious townreads on him suddenly. If you'd like, I could point out that Quil's not posted a lot since the census results either.

Except I wasn't heavily active last phase either, and throwing my name or anyone else's to the forefront to defend yourself is suspect. I did post what I felt was important and that was Jason scum, yet while people ponder Jason/I as a scum team, I am not seeing any votes. I want Jason lynched. I am not too pleased with how Ghostlin is acting so I could get behind that lynch if it weren't for some of these people pushing it. I'm going to have full reads tomorrow after noon- hold me to that because it's obvious you guys need me to lay out what is going on in my head as I read.

Frankly, I've done what I felt was right, which is Llam's still scum from being a load and having only 'his ISO' as an case. I've said the associative tells that jason came up with are lame early in the day and he's done a few things that have raised some eyebrows. Bluntly, the most coherent case I've heard so far is I'm active lurking. I'm not the only one, so I'm naturally curious why attention has been drawn to me instead of other people who are active lurking and are posting fluff who seemingly get a free pass.

[Ghostlin]

okay ghostlin can die

Yeah...what were your reasons from yesterday you cited? The funny thing is I decided to go through your ISO and didn't find any reasoning or a case except you thought the one person on Llew's wagon you thought was scum was me--which isn't much of anything.

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin, I still don't really know why you are voting for Llama over one of Amrun/Jason/CES who you said very likely contained one scum. I asked you this before but you danced around the question. I would think Lew's town flip would have made this even stronger for you.

It's because I spent a sizeable amount of time going Llam/Jason are scum yesterday, and I don't see anything, and I mean anything in Llam's play that really screams to me he's improved any. Since we --are-- getting closer to the deadline push, and apparently the rest of town doesn't agree with me on the Llam read (for reasons honestly, Sotty, I don't get) I will:

Unvote.

Vote: Jason

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Also, my scumread on Llam is due to behaviors, not on any associative tells. I'm ok with a Jason, and would not argue with an Amrun/CES lynch today, particularly with Amrun's 'oh, I don't have to give you a case of why I'm voting the way I'm voting, the rest of town now agrees with me you're scum.'

[Ghostlin]

The point was to look town.
More specifically to be transparent about my reactions to THE UNIVERSE.

The Llamarble case:

1) General uselessness (Fluff, lack of scumhunting).
Posts that indicate this behavior: 139, 200 (mostly the beginning of 200), 223, 340 (mostly a game mechanic that doesn't talk about scumhunting), 453-455 (he mostly explains how he came to the reads without any real analysis), 457, 484 (with this many posts, no wonder you were third), 490 (is really just waving himself around).

2) Lack of explanation on most of his town/scum reads: I've hit this point a lot, but he often will say X is town or Y is scum without really giving a case or much of a reason. Besides 'my ISO', the only reason why I think Llam's voting for me is because he didn't like the reason I voted for him via case. He did claim it was inaccurate, but Sotty, point #1 is the reason I voted for Llam in the first place. (Particularly since he listed me as a town read end of Day 1).

3) Excessive use of one or more of the following phrases, 'more to come', 'I'll do a deepread', etc. This is forgivable if he coughs up the goods, but yesterday he waited until the 11th hour to post a town/scum list. He never goes into detail why he suspects the way he does; and his case on me was really 'I guess I better have a case on Ghostlin. 'His ISO', and OMGUS.

4) I don't like #654. You can argue about meta until the cows come home, but it reads as an excuse to shift his vote off of VP onto a more poplous wagon.

5) #656 has either an associative tell with no reasoning or calling out three players as scum for no reason.

[Ghostlin]

why is CES scum?

Reasonable lack of scumhunting, the governor ploy last night seemed a big distraction ploy to me with not much effect, reads kinda active lurkish to me.

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin 747 wrote:
It's because I spent a sizeable amount of time going Llam/Jason are scum yesterday, and I don't see anything, and I mean anything in Llam's play that really screams to me he's improved any...."improved"?

In the continuum of scum versus town, he's not improved from the scum side of the continuum much from Day 1 to Day 2 there.

[Ghostlin]

Okay, nothing else to see, except Ghostlin trying to say that "refusing to give a case" is scummy, which is misrep since in that same post I gave several of my big reasons why I am currently voting for him.

Your tunnelling is beginning to bore me. I went back to Day 1 because you posted a tidbit at the beginning of today that essentally went, for your case 'Same reasons as yesterday, plus with the Llew/Lew pushes isn't genuine.' So I for giggles and grins went back to Day 1. It was mostly you and me arguing about semantics of if Lew was an anti-town third party if he should be allowed to live (I made the argument he's scum in either case), and after going over possibilties with you, you arbitarly decided that out of the numerous people 'on the third party' lynch, I was scum. Thing is, you never posted a case on why my play was scummy, Amrun, you just sort disliked the fact that I disagreed with you, and now you're just posting blurbs of 'Ghostlin must die.'

Whats. Your. Case?

[Ghostlin]

Erm why am I getting lynched again?
What was so slimy about my posting?
Careful immortal-tiering Sotty; unless she's Towned recently I was a little worried about her.

Pretty sure none of these things are actually scummy and I can provide a hojillion examples of all of them from me-town.
There's time before deadline; don't lynch me till I at least get available to talk again.

Yeah, going to follow my case now that town's decided this direction. This glorified proddodge cements what I was saying.

Unvote, Vote: Llam

[Ghostlin]

FoS: Vi

Why? I'm one of the more suspected players of the game and I'm reading Vi as town. Why the FoS?

[Ghostlin]

Actually I takke back my previous statement, if we aren't going to lynch scum (Jason) then lynching me is fine.

There's no impetus for this. It's not like glowball is in lynching range, her name has been thrown around a little.

If I had gone 'Go ahead and lynch me, that's fine.' I'd be dead by now. This doesn't read 'town is frustrated' to me. It reads borderline 'oh, crap, I'm caught scum.'

[Ghostlin]

I had a strong false negative on Reck in Lovers Multiball
And a strong false positive on Reck in Atomic mafia starting on post 912ish I spend most of my posting attacking Reck and then roleblock him.

Stupid question...'false negative' means you thought he wasn't scum and he was? And false positive means the reverse? These terms (and no, they're not why I think your scummy) don't mean anything to me, so I think you'll have to explain to the slow kids in the audience (obv me).

[Ghostlin]

Okay let's get one thing straight. I didn't ask to be lynch nor do I think that I should. I hate when multiple people get run up to claim and it seems like this is where that is headed. People want Llam to claim and if he isn't lynched and we as a group can't get to scum, I'd sacrifice myself over having anyone else have to claim. I mean that may be hard for you to understand but there are slots here that I believe are potentially more useful than I am.

Let me be blunt, then. #813 reads like you're giving up. While you're the only Town member that knows you're Town, you shouldn't ever do this. It's also an AtE. This is why people think you're scummy.

[Ghostlin]

Mod: Announcing V/LA Thanksgiving weekend 24-27th Nov; my birthday and convention are happening that weekend. I may post, but it'll be spordaic.

[Ghostlin]

We're not sure the third party is a killing role or not.
But yeah, VP being blocked on a night where there weren't as many kills as expected increases the odds he's scum.

Did Llamarble just claim Serial Killer?

I don't get the reasoning here. Saying it's that 3rd part isn't a killing role and then pointing out VP was blocked....one of the things aren't necessarly like the others.

I also don't get why KK says 'serial killer' Llam here.

[Ghostlin]

We're not sure the third party is a killing role or not.
But yeah, VP being blocked on a night where there weren't as many kills as expected increases the odds he's scum.

Why are we still discussing stuff like this, there is still no evedience there is 3rd party, is there? right now, scum is the focus. All this is distracting from scum hunting with the WIFOM rubbish about less kills, means VP = scum because he was blocked.

For all we know, there is only one killing faction/role. Only way to establish that info is over longer terms. D2, with only one night for evedience is not worth looking at now... IF in future days there are more than one kill, then yes.. this needs looked at. But now, all the speculation is just that.

Right now, I am looking for scum.

..Then you're saying you don't believe the Census Taker's Census?

[Ghostlin]

Another question for Ghostlin:

if the DV can help us with the game because scum might have to be more careful with their votes

Please explain this logic. In what way do scum have to be more careful with their votes due to the presence of a (presumed townie) doublevoter? Town needs to be more careful, but scum?[/quote]

Bluntly, scum are pretty much blatantly looking to look town by bussing and getting off when a wagon falters. A DV can often lead scum to hanging people scum didn't want to hang.

[Ghostlin]

@Ghostlin: In 478 and 479 you refer to D1 as "last night". Explain to me how that is not a scumslip.

Mostly because, while I can't provide you actual meta evidence of it (meaning I don't remember when I might of used night for day in a mafia game before), I'm probably sure I've done it at least once, somewhere on this site, and it did say anything of my alignment.

[Ghostlin]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt mostly because we have plenty of good suspects.

Unvote, vote: Ghostlin

Fair enough.

VOTE: Ghostlin

Are you a part of this game? You claimed Census Taker, gave us numbers (which was handy, but in the unlikelihood of a scum Census Taker, I'd expect the same) and then took off for days (in real time, not game time). Then you post gems like this that don't tell Town what you're thinking or doing.

[Ghostlin]

Hoo hoo hoo.

Vi, put your vote somewhere else, please.

On Ghostlin, preferably.

(Sotty7, llamarble, Jason and saulres should vote for Ghostlin too.

Neither of you are helping Town.

CES, what's your case against me?

Quil, your reads and explanation.

[Ghostlin]

Also, generic question for Vi/Llam: How do you feel about the fact that Quil didn't release the flavor of a pet who's a Census Taker?