MUNSCM - Abandoned
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PolarBoy Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Mafia
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MUNSCM 002: Weapons Inspectors
Acknowledgingthat investigations often turn up nothing;
Notingthat more experienced players will be more dangerous than inexperienced players if evil;
Notingthat said players are more dangerous if they have veto power
1.Requiresthat weapons inspectors be sent to China.-
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The delegate from the United Kingdom would like to speak opposed to this ammendment.
There were several reasons that China was selected as opposed to random selection. Some were addressed in the original resolution. Another reason though is that we do not know what the report will entail. Whether it will even, for instance, include the name of the country investigated.
To address the issue raised by the delegate from Benin, the fact that an axis member with veto power would be so dangerous is the very reason to keep those with more power in check first. The United Kingdom does not have blind faith in this nebulous concept of divine fairness and believes that we should prepare for the worst case scenario first.
On another note, this resolution is by no means complete. After submission of the original resolution it was realized that the axis has merely to launch a nuclear strike on the nation inspected to make the investigation worthless. It could also attack the nation receiving the report for virtually the same effect.
The next resolution was to include a plan to counteract this inevetability by randomizing the receiver of the report and sending the MABM to the nation being investigated.
It is the firm belief of this delegate that this plan, or one similar to it, would minimize the potential for failure in ascertaining the placement of unsanctioned nuclear weapons.-
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The delegate from the United Kingdom would like to speak against the motion to go to caucus. I see no purpose in opening the floor for debate before the issue at hand is settled. I would also be amicable to the failure MUNSCM 002, as it is woefully incomplete and does not really aid the security council in locating the axis of evil.-
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PolarBoy Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Mafia
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Delegate from Brazil, your question barely dignifies a response as all who have been involved in this debate are aware of what is about to be said in answer.PolarBoy wrote:After submission of the original resolution it was realized that the axis has merely to launch a nuclear strike on the nation inspected to make the investigation worthless. It could also attack the nation receiving the report for virtually the same effect.
The next resolution was to include a plan to counteract this inevetability by randomizing the receiver of the report and sending the MABM to the nation being investigated.
It is the firm belief of this delegate that this plan, or one similar to it, would minimize the potential for failure in ascertaining the placement of unsanctioned nuclear weapons.-
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PolarBoy Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Mafia
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mathcam's suggestion of inspecting a nation with veto power and then sending the report to another so empowered nation seems logical. If the axis of evil had one nation in that position we could still eliminate it easily as a nation cannot veto a resolution that directly names it, whereas if two had that power they could veto for each-other. Of course this wouldn't make it impossible for the axis to have 2 or even 3 or 4 members in that position, as we could simply name all of them in one resolution. Something like:
1. Requires nuclear strike on nation x
2. Requires later nuclear strike tommorow on nation y
So what this adds up to is that we must be prepared for the possibility of concentration of the axis in a position of power.
Another question has occured to me. Should the chair report who was inspected to us? It is not even a question whether he should report who was protected. In the case that the mafia failed in their attack, such a report would be valuable in locating another innocent. But knowing who was inspected may not be a good thing. Obviously the nation receiving the report should know, but keeping such knowledge from the public has the potential to also keep it from the axis of evil. If the receiver of the report is also kept anonymous then the delegate can prevent a strike on an innocent nation without necessarily making them a target for destruction.
I'll have to think about this some more.-
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Point taken Flying Dutchman. I guess that means that only one evil nation has veto. Therefore mathcam's plan of inspecting one veto power nation and sending the report to another.
A brief note about statistics. If we select a random nation with veto power to investigate another nation with veto power, the odds are as follows:
7/24, Innocent finds innocent
1/6, Innocent finds guilty
1/6, Guilty finds innocent
Obviously a Lepton's Gambit is not possible if the guilty nation receives the report, since insanity and paranoia are not part of the equation, so we can assume that a quilty nation would tell the truth and say that the report came up innocent. This means that if the chair reveals who was investigated and who received the report, we can be sure of confirming an innocent or finding a guilty, with an 11/24 odds of finding an innocent.
On the other hand we waste a lot of time(like 6 days) if there is no evil nation with veto power. Then again this plan was mainly for the short term while we don't know anything. As the game progresses we can assume that we'll have more information.
So basically as long as our investigator and investigatee don't get nuked(Not entirely unlikely I'm afraid), we're in good shape.
Do we have any leads for our nuke today?-
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Because part of the plan is to have the chair report who received the investigation in the morning. If we know who has the results and who their on, then there's no reason to keep them secret. I am aware that this plan does not allow us to make a long list of confirmed innocents in the long run. I do not expect this plan to remain in effect for the long run though.-
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The delegate from the United Kingdom would like to speak against. Actually this is going to sound a little petty, but a lot of this was my idea. It is not reasonable that a nation should be allowed to move up on the agenda simply by asking. A simple look at the thread reveals that the United Kingdom was instrumental in composing the current plan, though China did contribute. It seems outside the realm of possibility that any purpose is served at all by such a motion, as it is known what the United Kingdom will propose, and also that there will be little of difference coming from China.-
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MUNSCM 003:
Noting that allowing the axis to know what nation is protected allows them to attack with impunity.
Also noting that allowing the axis to know which nation is investigated gives them an optimal target.
Further noting that not allowing the council to know confuses debate.
1. Requires that MABM be sent to a nation randomly selected by the chair.
2. Requires that weapons inspectors be sent to the same nation selected for MABM protection.
3. Requires that inspection report be sent to another nation randomly selected by the chair.
4. Requires that both nations selected have veto power.
5. Requires that selections by the chair be announced to council the day after and no sooner.
Submitted by the delegate from the United Kingdom.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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PolarBoy Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Mafia
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point of informaton directed at the chair: For the purposes of this game, does the chair receive the result of the investigation?MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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The delegate from the United KingdomVotes in favorof closing debate on MUNSCM 003MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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The United Kingsdomvotes in favorof the motion, realizing that delegates may easily add resolutions that remain important to the end of the agenda.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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United Kingdomvotes againstthe motion to close debate.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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Point of Information directed at the speaker: Can it really be assumed that an veto-empowered member of the axis would automatically veto any resolution to destroy a fellow member of the axis? Please note that this is not intended to in any way imply that a veto-empowered member of the axis is not significantly more dangerous than one not so empowered.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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PolarBoy Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Mafia
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Point of information directed at the speaker:Perhaps in the event of a veto, an ammendment could be made to MUNSCM 003, sending weapons inspectors to Romania, or perhaps to the vetoing nation?MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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JEEP?
Point of information directed at the speaker:Having reconsidered an earlier proposal of a hypothetical ammendment to MUNSCM 003 in the event of a veto of sanctioned nuclear strike in the face of large majority vote, perhaps it would not be necessary to send MABM to the nation that would be investigated?
The delegate from the United Kingdom would also like to take this opporunity to apologize for the long preamble.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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The delegate from the United Kingdom would like to be added to the speakers list.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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Point of information directed at the chair: can a motion dictate what will happen in the event that it is, itself, vetoed? Doesn't that defy the definition of what a veto entails?MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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United Kingdomvotes againstthe motion to close debate.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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PolarBoy Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Mafia
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Actually as it turns out the United Kingdom has very little of relevance to say at this time. One should note that the delegate from Romania's suggestion of including the whole council in our search gives us a guaranteed 1/5 chance of locating Axis members, and searching only non-empowered nations give us either a 1/5 or 3/10 chance of locating them, whereas searching only empowered nations may give us no chance of locating the axis. Insofar as that is true, the Romanian delegates plan has merit. This, of course is assuming that the danger of an empowered axis member is outweighed by said merit.
The delegate from the United Kingdom would also like the council to consider potentially ammending MUNSCM 003 conditionally based on the alignment of whatever nation is the target of a nuclear strike today, taking into consideration that MUNSCM 003 was devised with the assumption of no information.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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United Kingdomvotes in favorof shelving debate on MUNSCM 007.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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The United Kingdomvotes againstthe motion to caucus.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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POI to the speaker:What, precisely, are you recommending?MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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POI to the speakerSo basically an unequivocal elimination of veto powers?MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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POI to the chair: In such a situation as the one detailed in the above post, could the axis of evil not simply pass a motion to temporarily revoke of one of the non-axis nations' veto power and then resolve to nuke the other?MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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PolarBoy wrote:POI to the chair: In such a situation as the one detailed in the above post, could the axis of evil not simply pass ato temporarily revoke of one of the non-axis nations' veto power and then resolve to nuke the other?motionPOI to the chair:It was this delegates understanding that veto-power did not apply to motions, and that the power of veto could be revoked with a motion. Could you explain where I am mistaken?MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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the delegate from the United Kingdom motions that the chair and all MUNSCM delegates congratulate him on completing his nineteenth journey around the sun.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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* writes home about the wit and wisdom of his fellow delegates. *MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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* the delegate from the United Kingdom refrains from mentioning that he can think of worse things. *Flying Dutchman wrote:
Did Chile really have to do that? Now we had a quote in a quote in a quote! Doesn't Chile realise what a disaster this is, it makes it SO hard to read and understand!shadyforce wrote:
So does Chile.Flying Dutchman wrote:
China agrees.ZONEACE wrote:
that wasnt wittyNanookTheWolf wrote:Pakistan is here!MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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Oh, another page, whoops. The delegate from the United Kingdomvotes in favorof MUNSCM 010.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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The United Kingdomvotes in favorof the motion to caucus, noting that it will probably have little effect one way or the other which order things happen in.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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PolarBoy Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Mafia
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United KingdomVotes in favor, andVotes: Vraak X for president.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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PolarBoy Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Mafia
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PolarBoy Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Mafia
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The United Kingdomvotes against shelving debate, questioning what else could possibly be added to this debate and noting that the only resolutions on the aggenda will be meaningless should this resolution pass.MUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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PolarBoy Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Mafia
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* clears throat loudly *
United Kingdomvotes in favorMUNSCM Delegate for the United Kingdom
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PolarBoy Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Mafia
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PolarBoy Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Mafia
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PolarBoy Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Mafia
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PolarBoy Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Mafia
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